[END] Turf Wars: Battle of the Hosts

[Golden]

Lets be really clear here...

Good result, but shady lynch IMO.

I don't understand how people can possibly say this.

There is ONE baddie team.

What, you think Fuzz told everyone to bus him suddenly and obviously for kicks?

Nah. I actually feel pretty good about SVS.

So the whole scum team sat around waiting for someone else to call out one of their own so they could all pounce on it and bus him?

Not the whole team. But you and Golden, sure.

Let me ask you and Golden something...what do ya all think of gleam?

I think its still possible gleam is on the baddie team too.

That is what proceeded your next bit.

[Golden]

And...

Well I ask about gleam cuz it looks like we're headed towards a sig or Enrique lynch and I'm wondering...

If Fuzz was lynched because he voted for Ika, which he would only reasonably do to save a teammate IMO (which in this case would be gleam, or perhaps even Epi)...

Completely agree with this bit.

I'm just wondering why ya all aren't looking their way instead of sig and Enrique?

There are five more cops. Why is it an either/or?

Epi especially, considering I believe he was "catching up" and was questioning the thread "Why Fuzz? I don't get Fuzz?" derpa derpy doo.

But yeah, for Golden to go after sig...lulz. You gotta be kidding me.

No, I'm not kidding you. I stand up for sig when he is town, all the time. You know this about me. Everyone does. I'm pretty good at seeing sig slips and seeing the reasons people are after him are dumb.

He made no slip here. He didn't post a word that was misinterpreted. People weren't taking him the wrong way. No - he opposed the CFD, and voted to break the tie and save Fuzz.

I do not believe this sig is town for a second.

Here is the entire part of the post in which I said I 'completely agree with that bit'.

Which was me breaking down which bit of your post I agreed and disagreed with.

I've never had any reason to feel epi is bad, I haven't suspected him, in all conversations before or after this when asked about epi I've been clear about my view...

But you take my 'complete agreement' to a statement clearly focussed on gleam to agree to the three words about epi?

[Long Con]

I'm pretty much on track with what Golden and Epi are saying, and I think that the ika voters are much more likely to be bad than at least the early votes that started the Fuzz lynch. No doubt some Cops avoided the trains altogether, but I haven't looked into who they might be yet.

[Matt]

Golden, yes. When I post something, and you quote a part of it, and you say "I completely agree with this bit"...again "completely"...I'm lead to assume you you also agree with "perhaps even Epi", because that was part of the quote that you "completely" agreed with.

You could've easily said "I agree with looking at gleam, but Epi not so much"...instead you said "completely". Derp.

[Marmot]

Golden, you said you "completely agree". What do you think those two words together mean?

I don't blame Matt for misunderstanding you. Your statement wasn't a direct representation of your view.

[Golden]

Golden, yes. When I post something, and you quote a part of it, and you say "I completely agree with this bit"...again "completely"...I'm lead to assume you you also agree with "perhaps even Epi", because that was part of the quote that you "completely" agreed with.

You could've easily said "I agree with looking at gleam, but Epi not so much"...instead you said "completely". Derp.

Well, I mean, I'm perfectly happy for people to be looking at epi. Could it have been an epi save? Yes.

I don't see anything that makes me suspicious of epi.

I "could have" said something else but your little semantic journey won't get you anywhere. Clearly, despite the fact that both before and after this exchange I said I didn't understand the epi suspicion and I don't share in it, I don't have a suspicion of epi. If you want to read into a single word that I actually do suspect epi, and everything else before and after is either a lie, or that I forgot my own position on epi... what can I do.

If you are going to tunnel on me, there isn't anything I can really do or say to change that.

[Golden]

Golden, you said you "completely agree". What do you think those two words together mean?

I don't blame Matt for misunderstanding you. Your statement wasn't a direct representation of your view.

At this point, I just have to throw up my hands and walk away.

[Matt]

Golden, you said you "completely agree". What do you think those two words together mean?

I don't blame Matt for misunderstanding you. Your statement wasn't a direct representation of your view.

At this point, I just have to throw up my hands and walk away.

Lol. No worries, I gotta be getting to work soon.

But yeah, I've never quite seen a Golden like I'm seeing in this game.

Peace

[Golden]

But yeah, I've never quite seen a Golden like I'm seeing in this game.

And, in one sentence, you have told yourself exactly why you should not be reading me as bad.

When I'm bad, you are seeing safe, civ golden that you are very used to and know well.

[Serge]

(serge's a cop btw)

Please do elaborate

[Serge]

So I just realized I might've been the subject of the CFD which means I wouldn't have stood a chance if that occured, so if anyone has some bone to pick with me, let's do this as soon as possible.

Come at me. *crunches knuckles*

[Golden]

So I just realized I might've been the subject of the CFD which means I wouldn't have stood a chance if that occured, so if anyone has some bone to pick with me, let's do this as soon as possible.

Come at me. *crunches knuckles*

You might have been, but you weren't.

I'd be interested in you reading that end of day back and giving your opinion on key players on both sides of the coin.

[Serge]

Well let me start with you. The poll would have me believe you voted first for Fuzz, and there seems to be a case since Fuzz didn't even have the most votes by the end of the day. Maybe you were even confident that the CFD won't work. Where I'm from, these things don't happen. We pick one of the leading lynches, proceed to lynch, and pick up the pieces from that. However, I am more inclined to believe you're civ since I don't have any erstwhile bad gut feel from you before or after that lynch.

SVS is a civ. He went for that Fuzz bit and ran with it, and unless Fuzz wanted to be bussed I wouldn't dream of doing it as scum. With the drought of replacements and the size of the game maye Fuzz wanted to be replaced and since that didn't look possible, maybe he wanted to go as an asset to his team. There is a possibility, but it is very remote.

The people who jumped at ika on the last moment probably really want ika to get lynched.

The people who jumped on Fuzz at the last moment didn't want ika or gleam to get lynched, but that begs the questionquestion why not vote for Epignosis whom I recall has a few votes(two, I think) as a headstart. That being said, I don't recall how many votes Fuzz had before.

[Serge]

I have a question though, the CFD would've formed against me because my ika vote was opportunistic? Is there something more? Because if that is solely it, however would've ika gotten lynched? Should've there been someone else to vote when I voted in ika that would not procure a CFD against that person? Why?

[Golden]

I have a question though, the CFD would've formed against me because my ika vote was opportunistic? Is there something more? Because if that is solely it, however would've ika gotten lynched? Should've there been someone else to vote when I voted in ika that would not procure a CFD against that person? Why?

I mean, thats why your name was thrown out there by me (I think I may have been the only person who mentioned you), but ultimately the reason it went on Fuzz was not only because his vote was opportunistic, but also because it didn't seem consistent with what he'd said in the thread.

The CFD happened more because there were a few of us who didn't really love the options that already existed, rather than specifically because you or Fuzz had done opportunistic votes. In my opinion.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Thats because its black and white DDL. When they flip there will be no ambiguity about their role cards, and every one of those five will be town. Religion is not.

Bullshit.

The day I accept there is a 100% guaranteed way of finding if someone is good or bad will be the day I stop playing mafia.

There is no black and white in this game until the player flips. This is a basic notion you should know by this point.

What possible stupid logical reason is there for me to bring up a CFD to suddenly bus my own teammate?

There isn't, because that's not what happened.

You didn't bring up the CFD. Turnip did. You didn't bring up Fuzz being suspicious. Silverwolf did. You didn't point out how Fuzz saying he wouldn't touch Ika when he did was fishy. SVS did.

All you did was stay with the flow and play along. You watch how the game is moving and react to it as things happen.

I'm not stating the CFD was some master plan by engineered by the cops to produce towncred. What I'm stating is that it is perfectly possible for individual cops to see what's going on and react to it by bussing their teammate. That doesn't require prior planning or even BTSC. It just requires fast thinking. And you are perfectly capable of that. As soon as TH mentioned CFD, you saw what was coming (even better than me, who had never seen a CFD in action before) and braced yourself for it. You presented multiple lynch options to look like you were helping, including a teammate for some light bussing (because providing scum lists with one or two teammates is something we all do). You said you were okay with voting Fuzz after others did. And as soon as someone voted for him, you followed.

The way you bus is not voluntary. You never start the lynch against your teammates. You just keep watching the scenario, waiting for it to happen, and when the flow starts moving against a teammate, you jump in. You are a fast thinker, able to change your plans on the fly.

And if I'm wrong about you and this is just a huge tinfoil (because I haven't discarded that possibility), then it's perfectly possible someone else in the wagon is a cop. It just requires fast thinking, and boldness. Heck, there have been instances where I harshly bussed a teammate (or even myself) with less than 5 minutes to think about it. And I was looking up to you for inspiration while doing it.

In my view, the only people who left this lynch with a lot of towncred are Turnip, Silverwolf and SVS. Everyone else is debatable right now. And even those 3 can become debatable if we later find good evidence against them.

[S~V~S]

I have a question though, the CFD would've formed against me because my ika vote was opportunistic? Is there something more? Because if that is solely it, however would've ika gotten lynched? Should've there been someone else to vote when I voted in ika that would not procure a CFD against that person? Why?

I am a she.

Becasue Fuzz' posts specifically indicated that he was NOT going to touch the ika/Silver situation. Fuzz voted the wrong way at the wrong time. You posted a real reason with your vote; Fuzz did not. You were NOT the subject of it, and there were good reasons for it.

What do you think of the ika voters? Or do you only suspect the people who voted for the baddie?

[Serge]

Oh by the way, generally on the subject of bussing don't ever make the mistake of thinking a scum lynch doesn't contain scum, I've been burned by that before. Complete and utter trust then the game ended and I learn a whole scum team bussed their own. Still, as with these games, use every tool in your disposal and don't let one idea fester in your mind.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

And trying to spin this AGAINST the Fuzz lynchers, if you're town, is just rampant paranoia and a refusal to beliebe that sometimes things can go well in this game. Day 2 was a major victory for town, whichever Family you belong to. Let's not squander it.

There is no method good enough that mafia can't subvert and turn against town.

No situation favorable enough that can't be used by mafia to give towncred to the wrong person.

No player too innocent to be bad.

No lynch result too obvious to be wrong.

No read too good to be wrong.

No act of bussing too suicidal to be impossible.

There are no absolutes in mafia. Ever.

[Golden]

@DDL - I simply disagree. The behaviours of all of those five people makes me see them as confirmed town.

None of my busses are simply 'going with the flow'. In Economics, as I pointed out, I SET the flow. I realised TH had checked them, and I knew I had to bus them. Like - there was literally no way that I was going to stop them being lynched. They had been caught by the cop. They were gone.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I know you didn't add DDL to the pool. I even said you didn't. You called him scummier and scummier based on his posts right after bringing up Fuzz's name, so I think it is relevant to the current topic.

This pinged me too, because of the choice of words. Prior to that Golden had never called me scummy, then suddenly I post one thing he doesn't like and I'm "scummier and scummier every time I post"?

Too dramatic for my tastes.

[Serge]

@golden and SVS, I get that Fuzz got buzzed because his post pointed out by SVS was potent enough to rally everyone on a last minute bandwagon. What I'm asking is why is my vote opportunistic, is it soley because I voted in a way where both bandwagons at that time were tied because of my vote? If some other person voted, let's exclude Fuzz, would have that been opportunistic too? Why is it opportunistic? Because there were a few hours left in the day at that point and gleam or ika getting lynched was a foregone conclusion and I made sure that would have happened?

On the subject of ika voters, I don't have a bad read on them but I haven't started distinguishing players yet. Except for ika, he stands out like a sore thumb. I don't think I've played with as many new players in a game as I am doing here so it's tripping me up. I've also been not taking into factor "player x was doing y here so he/she is z" posts because frankly if all the new players here went blindly with that it's bad. If evidence other than that supports those meta-reads then I'd take it. Still, very lightly.

[Serge]

I will look more closely on the voters now though. Expect a post from me later SVS regarding the voters if I'm still here when the day begins.

[S~V~S]

Oh by the way, generally on the subject of bussing don't ever make the mistake of thinking a scum lynch doesn't contain scum, I've been burned by that before. Complete and utter trust then the game ended and I learn a whole scum team bussed their own. Still, as with these games, use every tool in your disposal and don't let one idea fester in your mind.

But it wasn't a scum lynch. It was a last second wagon. Very different. If it had developed as a lynch over time, sure. But not last second like this. And not when ika *appeared* to have had more votes. I just find it super unlikely. Maybe one towards the end or two. But no more, imo.

A lot of baddies, the ones who were online, piled on ika at the end. I doubt they piled on Fuzz for the reasons I just said.

Linki, that post you just made kinda scares me a bit, lol.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

What do you think of the ika voters? Or do you only suspect the people who voted for the baddie?

I feel like answering this even though it's not for me.

I like Quin's defense. Felt like legit "looking for bullshit" behavior. Nerolunar gives me a weird vibe but up to this point I haven't seen anything terrible against him. Gleam has been worse than bad until now, but the lynch result has to give him some cred so I'm giving him a pass for now. Soneji I'm torn between seeing his lack of activity for classic Soneji, or being bummed that this is low even for his standards. I can see myself lynching him if he doesn't step up soon. Serge is fishy, it feeels like he's in the sidelines. Enrique has been fishy the whole game and last night didn't help. No idea about LC, I need to look at his posts. Sig feels legit.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

@DDL - I simply disagree. The behaviours of all of those five people makes me see them as confirmed town.

None of my busses are simply 'going with the flow'. In Economics, as I pointed out, I SET the flow. I realised TH had checked them, and I knew I had to bus them. Like - there was literally no way that I was going to stop them being lynched. They had been caught by the cop. They were gone.

You don't set the flow because you don't know when the cop will investigate your teammates. You know it is likely to happen, but it only becomes obvious when the cop posts his suspicions. Then you anticipate the flow and make sure you are one of the first people pushing the wagon.

Not so different from how you act here. You are very fast at reacting, and you make sure you are one of the first people in the flow. When TH mentions CFDs, you get ready to react to one that hits a teammate. When multiple people suspect Fuzz, you get ready to vote for him.

[Golden]

@DDL - Sig is bad. The least you could do is give me a chance to prove that the person who

1) Objected strongly to CFD
2) Objected strongly to the choice of Fuzz
3) Cast the vote that apparently saved Fuzz

Is genuinely bad, in accordance with the evidence, before you go off tinfoiling.

[Golden]

I will say, DDL, nothing about your case on me feels phoned in or disingenuous. Makes me feel better about you.

[Turnip Head]

I want to make sure that sig, Enrique and the other anti-CFDers get their proper day in court. It's easy to assume they're all baddies caught with their pants down but it almost feels like thats too easy. For all we know the rest of the fuzz weren't even around at EoD.

[Tangrowth]

Night 2

In an abandoned warehouse near the outskirts of the industrial district, a man is tied and hanging from a meat hook. Another man circles him, carrying a baseball bat. Nearby stands a table full of various instruments of torture.

"Come on Dr. Wilgy, I know you're really a cop. Everything about you screams undercover prick. Save me the time of cutting you up and just admit it now."

Wilgy stares back at the man holding the bat without saying a word.

"You don't really want me to have to use all these tools at my disposal just to make you say what we already know, do you? Come on, talk."

"And give you the satisfaction of saying you knew it all along? No thanks. If you are going to kill me, go ahead. But you're killing a man who would never turn on his own family. You can carry that blood on your hands."

This answer was not the one the man with the bat was looking for and threw him into a complete fury. Within moments all that was left of Wilgy was a bloody mass of flesh.

"Dammit man, now I have to clean this mess up and bury you somewhere. I hate this job some days. Ah fuck it, I'll leave it for someone else to deal with."

---------------------------------------------------

"Our informant says something is going down at this location tonight," the chief says, nodding out the window towards the building. "If we're lucky we will catch the big fish in the middle of something dirty and we can put him away for life."

The group exits the van and move softly into the building before busting into it in yet another flurry of noise and gun brandishing. Hey, if it isn't broke, right? Unfortunately all they found was Wilgy's dead body hanging from a meat hook.

"It looks like he hasn't been dead long, sweep the area, see if you can find anyone else," the chief barked. He was irritated that they had come so close only to find their intended target not there, and their other target dead. It wasn't a good night for him.

------------------------------------------------------

"The boss really liked our work today!"

The Capo and crew were having a beer, talking over their success.

"So what are we going to do with our reward?"

"Try and take out that Sockface Don Bozo, of course!"

"Ohhh," the first guy nodded with a sly grin, "that's why you're the Capo, you've got the brains!"

"So we doin' this or what?"

The Capo nodded toward a booth in the back, "He's over there."

The three grabbed their drinks and made their way over to the booth, before sliding into the booth, two on one side and the third blocking their victim from escape. Matt looked at them nervously, "Hey guys, what's going on?"

"Don't act so innocent, we have you figured out. We're not a bunch of chumps."

"What do you mean?"

"We mean it's closing time. Let's go."

"It's only six fifteen," Matt protested weakly.

The crew member on his side of the booth grabbed his arm and pulled him up, sticking a gun in his ribs, "You have an early bedtime tonight."

No one paid any attention as they escorted him from the bar, or if they noticed they pretended not to. No one wanted any trouble. The gunshot outside created a moment of silence inside and then slowly everyone went on as if nothing had happened.



DrWilgy has been killed by the Hitman from The Sockfaced Famiglia. He was Crew, a member of The Daisy Crime Syndicate.

????? escaped an arrest attempt by the Police.

DrWilgy was already dead and thus escaped an arrest attempt by the Police.

Matt has been killed by the Capo and Crew from The Daisy Crime Syndicate. He was The Fall Guy, a member of The Daisy Crime Syndicate.

It is now Day 3.

You have 48 hours to find a policeman. Good luck, goons!

[Quin]

I want to make sure that sig, Enrique and the other anti-CFDers get their proper day in court. It's easy to assume they're all baddies caught with their pants down but it almost feels like thats too easy. For all we know the rest of the fuzz weren't even around at EoD.

I feel like I've already run out of things to say on the topic, but I will reiterate that I wasn't against the CFD as a concept, but I thought at the time that Fuzz was the wrong choice. Of course, whoever you chose I would have stuck with ika.

I have about an hour until I have to go to uni, so I'll answer any questions before then.

[Golden]

Wow, Daisy Crime Syndicate has really been sustaining quite heavy losses this game. I wonder if Matt was targetted or if he was 'the fall guy'.

[Spacedaisy]

Come on Daisy Crime Syndicate, step up your game! Make your crime boss proud!

[Golden]

sig

Others can give him his day in court, but it won't shift my needle on whether or not sig is bad.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Golden

I'm open to lynch other people too, though. Let's see how the day progresses.

[Quin]

I think I understand how the Don is able to be arrested now. It seems that the secret role is able to redirect being arrested to another person. Whoever ??? is redirected it to Wilgy. That begs the question: Who would want Wilgy arrested? Assumedly someone who thought he was mafia. I need to think about Matt.

[S~V~S]

DDL

Not loving his fixation on Golden.

[Tangrowth]

Close but no cigar in trying to eliminate the opposing Don or a policeman, my Don and Hitman, but nice coordination there.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

The secret role is submitted be the player. It could be anything, from "bulletproof roleblocker investigator" to "Zombie John Nash".

[Quin]

The secret role is submitted be the player. It could be anything, from "bulletproof roleblocker investigator" to "Zombie John Nash".

Aw, damn. You're right.

I also think it could have been that chance 2nd arrest the cop can use.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I think that was probably the 20% arrest that (thankfully) failed.

[Golden]

I think that was probably the 20% arrest that (thankfully) failed.

I think so too. Wilgy seems like a reasonably understandable first choice target, to me.

[Quin]

Okay, so assumedly the daisy capo/crew trio earned a one-shot and used it on Matt?

[Tangrowth]

Host Announcement:

All votes cast so far need to be recast. Sorry for the inconvenience.

In my haste, I didn't include a non-player/host/deadie option, and in adding it I forgot it would reset the poll.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Or they just have a hidden ability we are not aware of, which likely doubles as the way to kill the don I've been looking for since the start.

[Marmot]

It appears to me that not only is Matt the Daisy Fall Guy, he was there secret role too.

[Quin]

It appears to me that not only is Matt the Daisy Fall Guy, he was there secret role too.

Why do you think that?

[Marmot]

It appears to me that not only is Matt the Daisy Fall Guy, he was there secret role too.

Why do you think that?

Because the Secret Role no longer appears in the OP, but the Fall Guy suddenly appeared.

[Quin]

It appears to me that not only is Matt the Daisy Fall Guy, he was there secret role too.

Why do you think that?

Because the Secret Role no longer appears in the OP, but the Fall Guy suddenly appeared.

Oh, nice find.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Nice find lol.