[END] Turf Wars: Battle of the Hosts

[Golden]

I am beginning to feel as though gleam and Quinn may be even better options than sig.

[Epignosis]

No way I'm getting to sleep. I'm having a bourbon.

Stupid work tomorrow.

That is Tomorrow Epi's problem.

It's 3am. This is Today Epi's problem.

Yeah, I gotta skedaddle.

[indiglo]

I am beginning to feel as though gleam and Quinn may be even better options than sig.

Quin's top of my list for ISOing tomorrow.

I have to go too. Brain is shutting down.

[Epignosis]

indiglo, vote ends in 30 seconds right now. Who gets your vote?

Sig

How about yours?

Linki~ LMAO

Quin. Lynch me for information? I'm going to keep coming back to that.

[Epignosis]

Aight good talk deuces do it again some time but not at 3am.

[indiglo]

indiglo, vote ends in 30 seconds right now. Who gets your vote?

Sig

How about yours?

Linki~ LMAO

Quin. Lynch me for information? I'm going to keep coming back to that.

That's right. We lynch you for pure fun and entertainment. Not fucking information.

[Golden]

indiglo, vote ends in 30 seconds right now. Who gets your vote?

Sig

How about yours?

Linki~ LMAO

Quin. Lynch me for information? I'm going to keep coming back to that.

That's right. We lynch you for pure fun and entertainment. Not fucking information.

Qft. I really like you, indiglo.

[Nerolunar]

Spoiler: show

I have finally finished reading. Jesus.

Taking the Lords name in vain, you should be lynched just for this.

Wow why Fuzz this makes no sense I think this is a baddie driven CFD to save a teammate, notice almost the same people are up for lynches today as yesterday? I stand by my theory that one was mafia and that we had some minor save last phase, I think we are seeing a much bigger save attempt this phase. With a mafia team thhis big a CFD is easy to pull off I think this is scum driven to save one of the three leading people. Most likely Ike or Epi.

Can someone give me any reason for the Fuzz lynch?

I also really dislike DDL switch and his reasons. I actually am agreeing with Llama about him what about a Dragon lycnh?

linki: DDL and Golden are my top two scum reads, either Ike or Epi are there partners. Possibly Wilgy as well.

While the "Wow why Fuzz this makes no sense" is the obvious thing people will take from this post, don't overlook that sig names five people- with thirty-three minutes in the lynch to go. We used to call that "throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks" back in the day. In addition, sig starts "agreeing" with llama about DDL.

sig, do you still agree with thellama73 about DDL? Why or why not?

I've still got a slight scum read on DDL mainly for Llama's points.I also didn't like his reasoning for switching wagons. I did name multiply people yes with good reasoning imo. I saw yesterday as an attempt to save Ika, Golden seemed scummy. I had already said one of the leading wagons was mafia that would have been Ika or you. Wilgy for reasons stated earlier. What is wrong with making multiply reads? I wasn't trying to redirect the CFD

I also find it very odd Golden doesn't want to lynch Ike a new player but suggested a CFD onto Serge another new player?

This isn't a big deal, but ika isn't a new player, and sig should know that.

This game was played eight months ago I didn't recall playing with Ika. This seems like a desperate attempt to try and refocus the discussion onto me.

The fact that the Gleam wagon exploded at the beginning of the phase with almost no explanation to being gone and another wagon popping up ijust as fast is insane. I bet Fuzz will flip civ, you'll attempt to lead a Gleam lynch tomorrow and they will flip civ. I know firmly believe one of the other two front runners is a cop.

This post oozes with desperation and fear-mongering. I wish I could see what the vote tallies looked like at the time of this post. I don't understand sig's thought process, but if sig is bad, I would argue that agleaminranks is good, because sig would know Fuzz wouldn't flip civilian.

Can you explain this I don't understand? I said if Fuzz flips civ then Gleam would be wagoned tomorrow and would the be civ. My thought process was simply. We had so many people vote Gleam for no good reason, his wagon exploded. Then it lost all its votes and was replaced by Fuzz. Could you explain your theory about Gleam being good if I'm bad?

I'm not going to go through all of sig's posts that are all railing against the wave of votes that came in out of nowhere for Fuzz. Here's my question: Is there a precedent for sig urging desperately against someone's lynch in the early stage of a game?

Sometimes I will, I recently did this more or less in Llama's game and it got me lynched. II think it has happened a few times, the reason I was so vocal this game was because I believed we where being redirected and pushed by the mafia.

I stand up for sig when he is town, all the time. You know this about me. Everyone does. I'm pretty good at seeing sig slips and seeing the reasons people are after him are dumb.

He made no slip here. He didn't post a word that was misinterpreted. People weren't taking him the wrong way. No - he opposed the CFD, and voted to break the tie and save Fuzz.

I do not believe this sig is town for a second.

Yep. I want to say I've even defended sig when he was bad and I wasn't.

That is true, however you also voted agaisnt me in The Syndicate game, when I voted with the last mafia player when I was indeed a civ. So I'd say you have defended me, but also voted agaisnt me when I made voting errors in the past.
++++

If I'm popped tonight, my top three are sig, Quin, and Nerolunar.

I'm not making a desperate attempt to refocus the discussion onto you. "Refocusing" assumes that the focus has gone away from you. It hasn't. You have two votes out of the gate. You desperately attempted to refocus discussion away from Fuzz. That is why you are the focus now.

My reasoning about gleam being good hinges on you being bad. If you are bad, I would argue that gleam is good. If you are a cop, then you knew Fuzz would not show up good, and you used gleam as a reason people shouldn't vote Fuzz. It's convoluted and based on assumptions about what people would do, which sounds like you were clutching at straws.

@ Epignosis

What exactly is your case against me? I only remember you mentioning me steering the thread earlier which you didn´t follow up on, but does it go beyond that? Explain to me why you find me suspicious.

I don't have a case against you. Yet.

So we've had a night phase. What fresh information do we have? Do you still want to lynch me?

Hm, Im not sure. You seem more civ now than before, but your weird behavior with avoiding wagons and such are still questionable. As for information, I don´t see any clear connection between the Wilgy kill and anyone.

I wish Black Rock and Llama would post more. They have been laying low for a while.

Im not opposed to a Quin lynch. Im happy you guys pointed out her weird behavior at EoD2. I didn´t notice that when I read through it.

@ DDL Can you point a finger at something that makes my post give off a weird vibe? I will try to answer as well as possible

[Quin]

You just said you weren't against the concept, but now you're saying you didn't know what the concept was. Which is it? I think you've been inconsistent, starting with the way you criticized DDL at the start of the thing, followed by the way you opposed the Fuzz wagon (note that I am saying "the way" you did these things, not simply that you did do them), and now the way you are kind of all over the place in your explanation of these things. You also seemed more frustrated than excited after Fuzz flipped bad, but this could be attributed to you taking some suspicion at the time as well. I'll have to look back and reflect on that.
Not to mention that the concept of a CFD, which you say you supported, is in some ways to cast votes without "proper justification", if by that you mean long-winded reasoning and lots of examples cited. It looks to me like you were saying "This Chinese Fire Drill is a good idea, unless we're doing it to RadicalFuzz."
This is definitely typical Sloonei behavior. I don't think you've ever seen me survive past Day 1 in a game before. This is what Sloonei does past Day 1 in games. He starts to focus on suspects. You have become a suspect. I wish it wasn't the case but it is.

Your quote is accurate. I did not agree with fuzz being lynched. I don't think I ever took any heat until after he flipped, though. I think you're taking my opposition to lynching fuzz and having golden point the finger at me as one conversation. I was frustrated at the fuzz bandwagon, and I was frustrated at golden for suspecting me. I wasn't frustrated at fuzz being bad at all.

I did not know what a CFD meant at the time, but now I do. Do you not think it common sense to consolidate that logic now that I know?

Epi, ill talk to you soon. i want to do it properly and I can't do it on this phone. Same goes to anyone else, I'm about to head into a lecture. I'll be back in like 2 hours.

I can't help but to keep coming back to this post:

I don't like the idea of starting another wagon, when we already have 3, with less than an hour for the phase to end.

This is the PERFECT opportunity for scum to save each other if they need to.

If you don't like the current wagons then tough luck. Try to push another one earlier next day.

pingpong. I don't like this at all. We shouldn't be forced to lynch our civ-reads because there isn't an existing bandwagon for them.

At the time you said this all of the discussion was moving towards a spontaneous, spur of the moment lynch of a brand new option, and then you made this post, in which you seemed to all the world to be voicing support, at least indirectly if not directly, of this new approach. But then, as soon as we started doing it, putting into practice the thing we were talking about and which you had just hopped on board with, you started shooting it down because "there weren't enough reasons". What else did you expect?

You keep bringing up the same argument to use against me, just swapping the content around to make it seem fresh and then prowling on me the moment you find something that sounds the slightest bit different to what I've already said three or four times now. There is nothing new in this post that I have not already answered to. I hope I'm not the only one seeing this. I feel like you're getting slack right now. I'm taking heat for a lot of things right now by different people, yet you're not even considering them and recycling the point about my response to the Fuzz lynch. You have always been more involved than this.

I am being scapegoated here, and I hope everyone can see that.

[Quin]

Spoiler: show

I have finally finished reading. Jesus.

Taking the Lords name in vain, you should be lynched just for this.

Wow why Fuzz this makes no sense I think this is a baddie driven CFD to save a teammate, notice almost the same people are up for lynches today as yesterday? I stand by my theory that one was mafia and that we had some minor save last phase, I think we are seeing a much bigger save attempt this phase. With a mafia team thhis big a CFD is easy to pull off I think this is scum driven to save one of the three leading people. Most likely Ike or Epi.

Can someone give me any reason for the Fuzz lynch?

I also really dislike DDL switch and his reasons. I actually am agreeing with Llama about him what about a Dragon lycnh?

linki: DDL and Golden are my top two scum reads, either Ike or Epi are there partners. Possibly Wilgy as well.

While the "Wow why Fuzz this makes no sense" is the obvious thing people will take from this post, don't overlook that sig names five people- with thirty-three minutes in the lynch to go. We used to call that "throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks" back in the day. In addition, sig starts "agreeing" with llama about DDL.

sig, do you still agree with thellama73 about DDL? Why or why not?

I've still got a slight scum read on DDL mainly for Llama's points.I also didn't like his reasoning for switching wagons. I did name multiply people yes with good reasoning imo. I saw yesterday as an attempt to save Ika, Golden seemed scummy. I had already said one of the leading wagons was mafia that would have been Ika or you. Wilgy for reasons stated earlier. What is wrong with making multiply reads? I wasn't trying to redirect the CFD

I also find it very odd Golden doesn't want to lynch Ike a new player but suggested a CFD onto Serge another new player?

This isn't a big deal, but ika isn't a new player, and sig should know that.

This game was played eight months ago I didn't recall playing with Ika. This seems like a desperate attempt to try and refocus the discussion onto me.

The fact that the Gleam wagon exploded at the beginning of the phase with almost no explanation to being gone and another wagon popping up ijust as fast is insane. I bet Fuzz will flip civ, you'll attempt to lead a Gleam lynch tomorrow and they will flip civ. I know firmly believe one of the other two front runners is a cop.

This post oozes with desperation and fear-mongering. I wish I could see what the vote tallies looked like at the time of this post. I don't understand sig's thought process, but if sig is bad, I would argue that agleaminranks is good, because sig would know Fuzz wouldn't flip civilian.

Can you explain this I don't understand? I said if Fuzz flips civ then Gleam would be wagoned tomorrow and would the be civ. My thought process was simply. We had so many people vote Gleam for no good reason, his wagon exploded. Then it lost all its votes and was replaced by Fuzz. Could you explain your theory about Gleam being good if I'm bad?

I'm not going to go through all of sig's posts that are all railing against the wave of votes that came in out of nowhere for Fuzz. Here's my question: Is there a precedent for sig urging desperately against someone's lynch in the early stage of a game?

Sometimes I will, I recently did this more or less in Llama's game and it got me lynched. II think it has happened a few times, the reason I was so vocal this game was because I believed we where being redirected and pushed by the mafia.

I stand up for sig when he is town, all the time. You know this about me. Everyone does. I'm pretty good at seeing sig slips and seeing the reasons people are after him are dumb.

He made no slip here. He didn't post a word that was misinterpreted. People weren't taking him the wrong way. No - he opposed the CFD, and voted to break the tie and save Fuzz.

I do not believe this sig is town for a second.

Yep. I want to say I've even defended sig when he was bad and I wasn't.

That is true, however you also voted agaisnt me in The Syndicate game, when I voted with the last mafia player when I was indeed a civ. So I'd say you have defended me, but also voted agaisnt me when I made voting errors in the past.
++++

If I'm popped tonight, my top three are sig, Quin, and Nerolunar.

I'm not making a desperate attempt to refocus the discussion onto you. "Refocusing" assumes that the focus has gone away from you. It hasn't. You have two votes out of the gate. You desperately attempted to refocus discussion away from Fuzz. That is why you are the focus now.

My reasoning about gleam being good hinges on you being bad. If you are bad, I would argue that gleam is good. If you are a cop, then you knew Fuzz would not show up good, and you used gleam as a reason people shouldn't vote Fuzz. It's convoluted and based on assumptions about what people would do, which sounds like you were clutching at straws.

@ Epignosis

What exactly is your case against me? I only remember you mentioning me steering the thread earlier which you didn´t follow up on, but does it go beyond that? Explain to me why you find me suspicious.

I don't have a case against you. Yet.

So we've had a night phase. What fresh information do we have? Do you still want to lynch me?

Hm, Im not sure. You seem more civ now than before, but your weird behavior with avoiding wagons and such are still questionable. As for information, I don´t see any clear connection between the Wilgy kill and anyone.

I wish Black Rock and Llama would post more. They have been laying low for a while.

Im not opposed to a Quin lynch. Im happy you guys pointed out her weird behavior at EoD2. I didn´t notice that when I read through it.

@ DDL Can you point a finger at something that makes my post give off a weird vibe? I will try to answer as well as possible

I'm interested as to why you are not opposed to me specifically here. sig and Enrique both responded in the same way I did, yet you're not even considering them. Do you not find their actions suspicious? Did you notice Sloonei's attempt to sway the CFD for Matt? What do you think about Luffy's point that Golden is taking the front seat for something he didn't spearhead himself?

[Quin]

Wow, my eyes are crossing now. That was a shit ton of reading.

On my Fuzz ISO, I noticed he did interact with Gleam a bit. Most of it was kind, with a tiny bit of a poke now and then, but Fuzz quickly backed off. In fact, in some posts before Fuzz voted for ika, he actually talked about Gleam pinging him, then he went right back to saying he didn't care who got lynched, even with his Gleam ping. I also noticed both Fuzz and Gleam used words like "honestly" and "truthfully" a fair bit when explaining how they viewed a specific something, or someone in a post. I don't know why, but that seems off. Why would you feel the need to clarify a few things as being honest or truthful? That's kind of another pingy thing there. My view on Gleam is shifting, and I would like to hear from some of the other players who (like me) originally did not understand the votes on Gleam.

Just finished my Enrique ISO also, and I am going to have to check out for the night. I think I've moved him down further on my list of suspicions though. I will continue to stew on it, and do more ISOing another day. My brain feels like mush.



@ Silverwolf - Take some pepto, your gut will quit bugging you. Seriously though, if you have any specific concerns or questions, please mention them. I would like to address them.

I did not, and frankly I still do not understand the basis for voting gleam. I forget what the original cause for suspicion even was. I don't civ read him by any means, but I do not think he was worthy of a lynch.

[Quin]

indiglo, vote ends in 30 seconds right now. Who gets your vote?

Sig

How about yours?

Linki~ LMAO

Quin. Lynch me for information? I'm going to keep coming back to that.

Epi, I see you still haven't addressed this post:

Epi, don't you think it ironic that you're casting suspicion at me for bringing up the concept of lynching you for info without going into specifics, when you objected to voting wilfy ... Without going into specifics.

What do you think about Wilgy's sudden suspicion of you? I think it's safe to say that his suspicion of you is a direct response to the post in question.

[S~V~S]

Also may be worth nothing that in my abandoned attempt to ISO Fuzzy tonight (my brain is too tired to process so much new information) one thing I was able to process was that Fuzz seemed be casting a lot of shade at DDL, like more than he was doing for anyone else it seemed. It didn't look like an attempt at bussing; it wasn't aggressive enough to be that. Like he was just trying to poke and prod at things and hope that other people picked up on what he was saying.

This is interesting; I read that as quite the opposite. Which is one of the reasons I voted DDL right out of the gate. I will have more time tonight to put out the case. To me that read as distancing, lobbing out some soft suspicions. Not enought to bus Fuzz & get him lynched, but enough to bolster either of the two up should either be lynched.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I don't think Quin's explanation for his Day 2 behavior is that hard to understand:

- He saw people talking about starting a new wagon. He was okay with the idea. At this point, he didn't know what "CFD" meant. He was expecting a new lynch where everyone explained their suspicion, not a collective act of turning brains off.
- I opposed it. He thought I was full of shit. To be honest, the argument I used was kind of shitty.
- The lynch on Fuzz started. He didn't suspect Fuzz so didn't want to lynch him. Also he was expecting something less rushed and more well explained. His BS detectors went bananas. He started voicing against it.

In a way, it's kind of the inverse of my reaction to the CFD, in which I opposed the whole thing from the start, but since I had been suspecting Fuzz before, I was okay with the lynch itself.

@ DDL Can you point a finger at something that makes my post give off a weird vibe? I will try to answer as well as possible

Later.

The last point is the one on which I disagree with you most strongly. I was in the exact same boat as Golden post-Fuzz. I still am. I just didn't show my enthusiasm as much in the thread. Shortly after the flip I tried to go for a jog but I was too amped and couldn't control my breathing at all and ended up wearing myself out about halfway through my route. If you're reading me as town, then I have to say that Golden's attitude after the Fuzz lynch was nearly identical to my own. If that means you're gonna read both of us as scum, so be it.

No, you two are different. When I called you out on using absolutes, you backed down. When I called Golden out on the same thing, he went "You damn sure this is absolute, there is no way I could be wrong!" When I posted my ISO on Golden, you didn't spout this black and white crap he is saying since the lynch, about how the people in the lynch are 100% confirmed civ. Instead, you trying to convince me voting for Golden is bad because those 3 people you mentioned are more suspicious. "More", instead of "100%". You want to use the results the CFD provided, but because you believe in their statistical power, not because you are sure you just won the game.

You are being rational. Golden is not. You are trying to solve the game. Golden is trying to rush it.

[Epignosis]

Hm, Im not sure. You seem more civ now than before, but your weird behavior with avoiding wagons and such are still questionable.

"Weird behavior." Hi, I'm Epignosis. And you are?

Nah, I didn't avoid anything. Would you rather me vote without having read the thread?

indiglo, vote ends in 30 seconds right now. Who gets your vote?

Sig

How about yours?

Linki~ LMAO

Quin. Lynch me for information? I'm going to keep coming back to that.

Epi, I see you still haven't addressed this post:

Epi, don't you think it ironic that you're casting suspicion at me for bringing up the concept of lynching you for info without going into specifics, when you objected to voting wilfy ... Without going into specifics.

What do you think about Wilgy's sudden suspicion of you? I think it's safe to say that his suspicion of you is a direct response to the post in question.

I am astounded that you think voting for someone without going into specifics is on the same level as refraining from voting for someone without going into specifics.

[sig]

I find people who justify a lynch by saying we will get info is generally bad.

@sliverwolf - I'm not pushing easy lynches. LC might be easy, but I'm against lynching him. Whats more, look how friggin hard it is even with me being as loud as I am, I'm still just as on the block.

I'm pushing common sense. Sig IS bad. There is just no doubt at all about that. He is 100% a cop. He made it incredibly, blatantly obvious during the cfd. I have no sympathy and no compunction in taking people down who are bad, and for all the talk of 'being careful', in the case of sig I just don't need to be careful. He's bad. It doesn't need any great analysis to demonstrate. Just read his posts and see his vote around end of day.

PS - if I was bad setting up a run of easy lynches this early in the game, it be guaranteed to backfire on me. Heck, it would probably backfire on me if I was wrong even once, especially given the amount of suspicion I've taken.

You'll never see mafia golden play like I'm playing this game. This is me in full supatown mode. I'm not sure I've been able to do this in years, but boy is it fun..

I'm not bad, I've never ever seen a CFD succeed, usually they are done by mafia to save teammates. I am town and was arguing against what I saw as a bad lynch. I'd had throughout the day expressed displeasure at the gleam wagon which just appeared imo with weak reasoning.

I also agree with Silver about her point on Golden. I do still believe he is mafia, however I'm less confident on Epi being scum.

[sig]

I'd also say Golden is wrong here, more people have already defended LC then me, quin, or Enrique. I believe all three of us would be easier wagons then LC. I also find it quite troublesome he is ignoring LC last minute save of Fuzz. At the very least I was in the thread stating my views while LC wasn't and just appeared to tie the votes. How am I suspicious yet this isn't?

[agleaminranks]

I haven't had time to catch up since the night actions but I want to say RIP Wilgy and Matt, I was wrong about my Wilgy read but at least I was right about him being good. Matt I hardly knew ye. Sorry to see so many civs die after a successful lynching.

Without reading anything since then it feels like I should look into Matt's tunneling against Golden. It probably won't reveal much but it's worth a shot.

Busy days ahead for me, will try and catch up and contribute as much as possible.

[Turnip Head]

I think sig is town. It would have been easy for him to agree with the Fuzz suspicion if bad but he was thinking critically about the CFD and he was wrong. I don't want a witch hunt against the players who were against the CFD... but of them I think Luffy looks the worst for being against it but then jumping on it anyways, but he clearly put a lot of work into analyzing Golden's role in the events, so

[Turnip Head]

And I see the distinction that Quin is making between being pinged by Luffy's post (about how we're not allowed to make a new bandwagon) and being against the Fuzz wagon specifically. I don't think that is as big a contradiction as Sloonei is making it out to be. Both things can be true and still be genuine.

[Silverwolf]

I realized in my reads I said nothing about neurolunar or LC so I'm gonna look into them next. For some reason I forgot about them. I think I had a gut townread on Neurolunar if I remember right but LC I have no idea.

I like DDL's point on Golden making everything black and white. How can anybody be that sure that all those who opposed the Fuzz lynch are bad? Quin, Sig, Enrique-I have a hard time scum would be that obvious. How can anybody be that sure that those on Fuzz are all good? I mean, bussing is a thing that happens. And is it absolutely positive that those voting ika are bad for doing so? Are you that certain ika is town? I guess my point is, nothing in this game is black and white and being so certain of things bugs me.

Sloonei-I realize you are also enthusiastic but you are more careful about your suspicions by questioning people and researching your suspicions in a more thoughtful manner than Golden.

I saw a post of Indiglo's that I liked a lot and a good point about Gleam/Fuzz interactions. I also likes some of Turnip Head's posts so these two I'd be willing to reconsider.

But honestly, outside of Golden, I think scum are probably among the more inactive players. Simply because I have several I don't have a good read on who are laying low and because several of the more active players look pretty good to me.

I'd like to see what ika does. He did work overnight again and is sleeping so his not being here is not a concern but I do want to see more from him as well since he's been somewhat quiet since EOD.

[Tangrowth]

Effective immediately, Matt (2.0) is replacing sprityo.

To prevent Matt 2.0 from having inside information, I must inform all of you that Matt 1.0, as The Fall Guy, selected Consigliere at the beginning of the game.

We still need a few more replacements, but as you can tell by our use of a recently killed player, we have asked around literally everywhere and haven't found any.

[Turnip Head]

Welcome back Matt

I'm gonna revisit Gleam. I think it's noteworthy that everyone on his wagon jumped ship for Fuzz while the other two wagons remained more or less intact. Does anyone know if any players who originally voted for Gleam ended up switching to ika?

[Sloonei]

You just said you weren't against the concept, but now you're saying you didn't know what the concept was. Which is it? I think you've been inconsistent, starting with the way you criticized DDL at the start of the thing, followed by the way you opposed the Fuzz wagon (note that I am saying "the way" you did these things, not simply that you did do them), and now the way you are kind of all over the place in your explanation of these things. You also seemed more frustrated than excited after Fuzz flipped bad, but this could be attributed to you taking some suspicion at the time as well. I'll have to look back and reflect on that.
Not to mention that the concept of a CFD, which you say you supported, is in some ways to cast votes without "proper justification", if by that you mean long-winded reasoning and lots of examples cited. It looks to me like you were saying "This Chinese Fire Drill is a good idea, unless we're doing it to RadicalFuzz."
This is definitely typical Sloonei behavior. I don't think you've ever seen me survive past Day 1 in a game before. This is what Sloonei does past Day 1 in games. He starts to focus on suspects. You have become a suspect. I wish it wasn't the case but it is.

Your quote is accurate. I did not agree with fuzz being lynched. I don't think I ever took any heat until after he flipped, though. I think you're taking my opposition to lynching fuzz and having golden point the finger at me as one conversation. I was frustrated at the fuzz bandwagon, and I was frustrated at golden for suspecting me. I wasn't frustrated at fuzz being bad at all.

I did not know what a CFD meant at the time, but now I do. Do you not think it common sense to consolidate that logic now that I know?

Epi, ill talk to you soon. i want to do it properly and I can't do it on this phone. Same goes to anyone else, I'm about to head into a lecture. I'll be back in like 2 hours.

I can't help but to keep coming back to this post:

I don't like the idea of starting another wagon, when we already have 3, with less than an hour for the phase to end.

This is the PERFECT opportunity for scum to save each other if they need to.

If you don't like the current wagons then tough luck. Try to push another one earlier next day.

pingpong. I don't like this at all. We shouldn't be forced to lynch our civ-reads because there isn't an existing bandwagon for them.

At the time you said this all of the discussion was moving towards a spontaneous, spur of the moment lynch of a brand new option, and then you made this post, in which you seemed to all the world to be voicing support, at least indirectly if not directly, of this new approach. But then, as soon as we started doing it, putting into practice the thing we were talking about and which you had just hopped on board with, you started shooting it down because "there weren't enough reasons". What else did you expect?

You keep bringing up the same argument to use against me, just swapping the content around to make it seem fresh and then prowling on me the moment you find something that sounds the slightest bit different to what I've already said three or four times now. There is nothing new in this post that I have not already answered to. I hope I'm not the only one seeing this. I feel like you're getting slack right now. I'm taking heat for a lot of things right now by different people, yet you're not even considering them and recycling the point about my response to the Fuzz lynch. You have always been more involved than this.

I am being scapegoated here, and I hope everyone can see that.

It because that is at the heart of my case against you, and you have not said anything that answers my doubts about it. It looks very bad. If there's nothing more to be said about it then I won't say anything else about it.

But the way you are trying to turn this into a suspicion against me ("it's unlike you" "i'm being scapegoated") is equally bad to me. It does not strike me as genuine. You are not being scapegoated, you are being investigated, and my behavior is not as singularly focused as you are implying.

[Sloonei]

And I see the distinction that Quin is making between being pinged by Luffy's post (about how we're not allowed to make a new bandwagon) and being against the Fuzz wagon specifically. I don't think that is as big a contradiction as Sloonei is making it out to be. Both things can be true and still be genuine.

The contradiction is more that on the one hand he supports the CFD in theory, but then rejects it when it's put into practice, and his rejection is based on the fundamental principles of the thing he is implying to have agreed with ("there's not enough discussion."). He objected to lynching RadicalFuzz, and the explanation he's given does not logically match up, in my opinion, with the reasons he has stated.

But quin is right, I have said all of this already. If people disagree with me, they disagree with me. I'd like to explore other names, but my mind is unlikely to change on this one.

[Sloonei]

My last sentence in the first paragraph makes no sense
He objected to lynching RadicalFuzz, and the explanation he has given doesn't logically fit with other things he has said.

[Silverwolf]

Welcome back Matt

I'm gonna revisit Gleam. I think it's noteworthy that everyone on his wagon jumped ship for Fuzz while the other two wagons remained more or less intact. Does anyone know if any players who originally voted for Gleam ended up switching to ika?

I know that I was voting Gleam and moved to Fuzz and of course ika wouldn't vote for himself so I can speak for both of us and say we didn't. S-V-S, Scotty, and DDL were all on Gleam and I don't believe any of them every moved to ika. As for the rest, I don't remember. Those on the ika wagon-Soneji and LC are the ones I want to look at the closest when I get a chance.

[Nerolunar]

Im still reading Ika as bad. I understand that we are unfamilliar with his playstyle, but I just can´t get around how it looks. Recently he has only posted pictures without words, not really been providing thoughts or reads and previously he would say stuff like "Just lynch this already". It doesn´t look to me like he is really trying. What townstyle exhibits that?

I guess he is working and doesn´t have time to respond properly, but if he doesn´t do it soon I will be voting for him.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I'm gonna look at Enrique and LC and at night. Maybe a few others. I'm not completely confident about this Golden lynch. I think I've done a fine job at proving he is capable of what i'm saying he did, but not that he actually did it. I need to see if I find other suspects though.

[indiglo]

indiglo, vote ends in 30 seconds right now. Who gets your vote?

Sig

How about yours?

Linki~ LMAO

Quin. Lynch me for information? I'm going to keep coming back to that.

That's right. We lynch you for pure fun and entertainment. Not fucking information.

Qft. I really like you, indiglo.

Much obliged, same to you.

[Sloonei]

indiglo, vote ends in 30 seconds right now. Who gets your vote?

Sig

How about yours?

Linki~ LMAO

Quin. Lynch me for information? I'm going to keep coming back to that.

That's right. We lynch you for pure fun and entertainment. Not fucking information.

Qft. I really like you, indiglo.

Much obliged, same to you.

That second smiley is my favorite thing, can we please get it added to the Official Syndicate Collection?

[Turnip Head]

Welcome back Matt

I'm gonna revisit Gleam. I think it's noteworthy that everyone on his wagon jumped ship for Fuzz while the other two wagons remained more or less intact. Does anyone know if any players who originally voted for Gleam ended up switching to ika?

I know that I was voting Gleam and moved to Fuzz and of course ika wouldn't vote for himself so I can speak for both of us and say we didn't. S-V-S, Scotty, and DDL were all on Gleam and I don't believe any of them every moved to ika. As for the rest, I don't remember. Those on the ika wagon-Soneji and LC are the ones I want to look at the closest when I get a chance.

Ok so essentially the Gleam wagon all moved to Fuzz, except Scotty who kept his vote there (just as I predicted he would ). I trust the motives of all the Gleam ----> Fuzz switchers, except maybe DDL so ISOing him is on my to-do list.

[indiglo]

That hat doffing dude is one of my faves too. I looked high and low for him, and I love him so. :twirl:

If they add him here, I wouldn't have to open my photobucket account every time I want to use him.

[Sloonei]

That hat doffing dude is one of my faves too. I looked high and low for him, and I love him so. :twirl:

If they add him here, I wouldn't have to open my photobucket account every time I want to use him.

who's in charge of these things? Is it Long Con?

[Long Con]

No, I just make graphics, I can't put them into the forum... I have no behind-the-curtain access.

I'm starting off with a vote for Long Con.

Where you at mate? What are your thoughts right now?

I am here. I'm caught up now, and I'm putting together a post over the course of the next couple of hours... I have work to do, unfortunately, so I'm going to work, take Mafia break, work, repeat.

[Epignosis]

That hat doffing dude is one of my faves too. I looked high and low for him, and I love him so. :twirl:

If they add him here, I wouldn't have to open my photobucket account every time I want to use him.

who's in charge of these things? Is it Long Con?

Contact your hosts.

[indiglo]

ISOing here...

I'd also say Golden is wrong here, more people have already defended LC then me, quin, or Enrique. I believe all three of us would be easier wagons then LC. I also find it quite troublesome he is ignoring LC last minute save of Fuzz. At the very least I was in the thread stating my views while LC wasn't and just appeared to tie the votes. How am I suspicious yet this isn't?

Here are the vote tallies for ika Day 2:

ika
9
Quin (5), Nerolunar (6), agleaminranks (11), Soneji (12), Serge (14), RadicalFuzz (16), Enrique (23), Long Con (28), sig (29) 31%


RadicalFuzz
8
Golden (17), ika (18), Silverwolf (19), indiglo (20), S~V~S (21), Dragon D. Luffy (22), Turnip Head (24), Sloonei (25) 28%


So while sig is saying LC came in with a last minute save of Fuzz, actually sig was the very last vote on ika. And he came in well after all the Fuzz voters had voted Fuzz.

This seems extremely odd to me. Thoughts? Sig, explanations?

[indiglo]

Sig, I guess my pointed question for you here is why would you look at LC for his last minute save of Fuzz, when you actually voted after LC to break the tie between ika and Fuzz? Which vote here actually looks like a last minute save of Fuzz to you - yours or LC's?

[indiglo]

Sorry for the triple post (unless there's linki at the end of this), but the only other real trend I noticed from sig's ISO is that he defended Gleam hard. But, too many unknowns there to assume much, imo. I saw 0 interaction between Fuzz and sig in the thread.


@ Sig, also, how are you feeling currently about Gleam? Have your views shifted on him at all?

[chaindeath]

Chaindeath has found that being up to date on the forum helps make responding easier, he will try to do it more consistently. Let the quote train roll!

Chaindeath is unsure of the board state at this point. He has a few civi reads on a few people and a few on who the baddies might be. Scum seems like a mean word to him and he prefers baddies. If he was forced to vote right now it would likely be for either DDL or maybe SW.

Luckily he made it though the night safely and can look at people more closely. He had exams this past week that made keeping up really quite stressful and he plans to be more up and active. Hopefully.

Sloonei has a hard time fathoming these two as your top suspects.

He is new to mafia, relatively speaking and hasn't played in years so he is having a hard time keeping track of all the weird things that people say/do to ping others that more seasoned players will say "this makes you scum because it shows this thing. Lets kill you."

Chaindeath has been night killed before and it haunts him to this day. Kinda. He just lives knowing that he could die at any moment. #tragicbuttrue

I have been night killed before too, chaindeath, but what have you done this game that you think would warrant being night killed? #civlivesmatter

TBH chaindeath hadn't posted too much in the earlier days and sometimes people who don't post get NKed by those with the power to do so who are civ eg. hitmen and dons.

Chaindeath has been night killed before and it haunts him to this day. Kinda. He just lives knowing that he could die at any moment. #tragicbuttrue

Chaindeath! I noticed chaindeath enjoys talking in the third person. Can I buy chaindeath a drink?

He would very much appreciate that! How about a gin and tonic? (Tanqueray or Hendricks because life's too short for cheap drinks(or another brand of comparable gin) )

Im still reading Ika as bad. I understand that we are unfamilliar with his playstyle, but I just can´t get around how it looks. Recently he has only posted pictures without words, not really been providing thoughts or reads and previously he would say stuff like "Just lynch this already". It doesn´t look to me like he is really trying. What townstyle exhibits that?

I guess he is working and doesn´t have time to respond properly, but if he doesn´t do it soon I will be voting for him.

Nero, chaindeath thinks that the posting of pictures kinda makes Ika seem like a townie. There is still a secret roll and with one of the crew members dead from daisy's crew there are 5 other people who could have some other mission assigned by their don. It seems like a bad thing to base a baddie read on since there seems to still be some mystery around in the role pool.

[Matt]

Hi!

I think I may have been wrong on Golden. Tee-hee!

Anyway, not caught up since death, so I'll do that today at some point. Peace.

[Marmot]

Hi!

I think I may have been wrong on Golden. Tee-hee!

Anyway, not caught up since death, so I'll do that today at some point. Peace.

Bwuahaha.

[Nerolunar]

@ Chaindeath

The pictures are not my only concern - He has been saying other stuff previously that make me think he is scum. Although now that you mention it, it was probably a role that makes him post in pictures only.

[Sloonei]

dammit g-man, get off of ika' account!

[chaindeath]

Chaindeath just wanted to make sure that Nero was aware of it because He thinks the police don't have a role that would do something like that. Also he welcomes back Matt

[Nerolunar]

Chaindeath just wanted to make sure that Nero was aware of it because He thinks the police don't have a role that would do something like that. Also he welcomes back Matt

Im a little pinged by you. You only show up to defend yourself, and I don´t see any desire to solve the game.

Who do you read as town/scum?

[Marmot]

No, I just make graphics, I can't put them into the forum... I have no behind-the-curtain access.

I'm starting off with a vote for Long Con.

Where you at mate? What are your thoughts right now?

I am here. I'm caught up now, and I'm putting together a post over the course of the next couple of hours... I have work to do, unfortunately, so I'm going to work, take Mafia break, work, repeat.

Awesome! I look forward to it.

I'm leaving my vote where it is for the time-being because because.

[Matt]

Hi!

I think I may have been wrong on Golden. Tee-hee!

Anyway, not caught up since death, so I'll do that today at some point. Peace.

Bwuahaha.

Marmot, how did you know I misunderstood Golden and that Golden just wasn't bad and lying through his teeth?

Golden, you said you "completely agree". What do you think those two words together mean?

I don't blame Matt for misunderstanding you. Your statement wasn't a direct representation of your view.

[Sloonei]

As promised, here's a Fuzzy ISO:

Refusal to elaborate on a lynch vote isn't enough for a lynch? I disagree, Luffy. Saying "X should be dead" and not explaining the why is either poor play that needs to be pruned or intentional manipulation of mob mentality to keep motives for X's death hidden. I don't like it.

Wilgy you knew perfectly well that your voting plan wasn't going to work before you posted it.

Scotty you didn't put me on that list of people who hadn't checked in. If you made the list off the top of your head why are those 3 on your mind, and if you went down the list how did you miss me?

The first player he mentions in the game is DDL, and it's an effort to cast shade on the Dragon. He then takes a similar approach to both Wilgy and Scotty in this post, but the Luffy comment feels like it's the strongest of the three points he makes in this post.

A while later came his first big list-style ketchup post I've snipped it a bit, and added my own commentary in this color.

Quin the assumption that anybody acting strange, presumably to perform a task, should be a town read is something I find odd.

Luffy are you concerned about getting heat for unfamiliarity, is that why you're calling Soneji to the stand to testify to your behavior?
Points out Luffy again, though this time it's a little less accusatory. It still does not read as an entirely friendly comment, though, as there does seem to be a light, indirect sort of accusation lurking beneath the surface here.

Quin Wilgy does as Wilgy is. While I don't know what he's doing, in my experience that's somewhat the norm for him. I feel like the amount of conjecture we could do regarding the tasks is nearly infinite, so I'd rather not focus on that line.
Two of his first 3 points in this post are directed at Quin, stating some form of disagreement with his thinking but without going into much detail. The first point particularly, where he simply describes Quin's behavior as "odd" with no more elaboration can easily be read as a weak attempt at distancing between baddie teammates, if you are so inclined.

Sloonei I like your point regarding Mongoose.
This makes me feel good about Mongoose. This looks very much like a baddie trying to prod another case against a townie into existence. Offers his support and nothing more, like he's setting himself up to put a vote there down the line if the opportunity arises.

Enrique others might not share this sentiment but it irks me when votes are explained away with "it was a joke" statements. I also attain an irked state when defenses consist of "I'm town" and nothing else. Statements like those showcase both zero credibility and zero effort.
Hey look, he's talking about Enrique. I make nothing out of this because Enrique was such an easy target at this point that anyone, regardless of their own or Enrique's alignment, could have made this comment.

Ika usually having a working knowledge of the roles in a given game can help you determine motivations and possible underlying intentions behind certain statements or actions. A game without any night protections whatsoever would have to be played differently than one with several. And this could just be me again, but I have personally never seen anything remotely fruitful come of asking the question "are you town" and I doubt I ever will. The only answer that question provides is that the one asking it is attempting to appear inquisitive.

Wilgy I can safely assume it was to gauge reactions, or I can dangerously assume it was to evoke a specific one.

Matt the implications of light green on a rainbow and not voting for someone aren't the same. As I understand it rainbow lists usually only have 5 colors, but a thinking person doesn't have only 5 states of suspicion they put the other players into.

Luffy regarding Tranq & spirityo I agree with you. Voicing support for something is fine, but to have the only thing to your name be a "linki- yeah let's do that" isn't a good thing.
Agrees with Luffy re: low posters, it appears. Makes me feel good about sprityo/Matt 2.0.

At the risk of appearing as if I'm defending Golden, I feel like Luffy & Sloonei are both putting words in his mouth after Matt's post. His only non-null read (he said, specifically, color on the rainbow so I might be misinterpreting) was Long Con and then shortly after said he didn't want to vote for 7 players. He didn't say he thinks they're town, necessarily. I can see where they don't like Golden's actions but there is a distinction between town read and "rather not vote X" that is being ignored.
This is confusing. That qualifier at the beginning ("At the risk of appearing as if...") strikes me as unnecessarily nervous and self-conscious, and I wonder why I didn't pick up on it at first. But then what is he nervous about? I still have Golden as a strong town read, but this is really the first thing that's given me a shade of doubt. I've never played with Fuzz before, so I don't know anything about how he'd play as scum. Perhaps I am approaching this backwards, and what he's actually trying to do here is accuse one or both of me and Luffy, meaning the purpose of the qualifier was to simply call attention to this point. Golden is a non-factor, and he wants to call Luffy and I scum. I don't know. I continue to feel like there is an inordinate amount focus on DDL in Fuzz's posts, but he was a very active contributor early on. I am pretzeling myself here.


Gleam I disagree with you on the point that pointing out how people are acting in this game as opposed to previous is "literally" all you can do on the first day. It doesn't take a precedent of action Y in previous games to determine that action X in this game doesn't look good.

Matt both Luffy & Sloonei used your points to pressure Golden but you missed it. After having played a game with you I was under the impression you would be on the lookout for anyone supporting you, but that's not the case here.
Here he turns that previous point on its head. This should also have caught my attention.

Gleam the problem of minimizing civilian deaths in this format is that we're "outnumbered" from the beginning. While it's preferable to dispose of scum first, each individual team from the beginning has more enemies than allies. Statistically speaking, trying to save civilians on day 1 when you yourself act as if there's very little information on day 1, is a poor decision.
Two of his last three points now are directed at Gleam. That's not too alarming, since lots of people were talking about Gleam and his Day 1 approach. I can go either way on my interpretation of these two points. Fuzz's tone is somewhat passive and distant, and I don't know whether that's because he was scum simply piling on a point that others had already made for his own townie cred, or if because he is interacting with a teammate here so there's some stiffness in his approach.

"People like yourself are a pretty common trope in movie bad guys. They have some ideal that may even be morally sympathetic to the viewer, but you still use the end to justify your means of sacrificing a few innocent lives along the way. I think that is the wrong attitude."
Gleam this isn't some life-or-death survival game where he's sacrificed your crippled sister to better his odds of winning. Mislynches are going to happen, statistically. I guarantee you the number of games won without mislynches is smaller than the number of games won with them. And, again, this game in particular there are three teams and only one can win, so that makes the logic hole in your mission statement even larger.
Another point about Gleam. I still don't know what to make of this, so I'll see how his Gleam read develops further on.

My general strategy is to point out things that I don't like.

Gleam do you understand my confusion at your policy of "I'd rather not lynch civs Day 1 than try to lynch scum" in this format? I mentioned it earlier but that was in the big spoilered post and I want to make sure I get the chance to talk to you about this.

Here's another post directed at Gleam, and Gleam's response:

My general strategy is to point out things that I don't like.

Gleam do you understand my confusion at your policy of "I'd rather not lynch civs Day 1 than try to lynch scum" in this format? I mentioned it earlier but that was in the big spoilered post and I want to make sure I get the chance to talk to you about this.

Mmm, I had missed you addressing me in that spoiler post. Apologies.

Yeah, the way you put it makes sense. I was kind of operating under the principle that both mafia families were the traditional "civilians" of the game , and that's kind of how they're being treated by everyone here. But it is, in the end, going to boil down to which family is left standing. It's not something I'd really considered, nor anyone else as far as I can see. The cops are the more imminent threat.

I remember this post standing out to me at the time because it was the first time I had noticed Gleam conceding to the argument of another person on this matter. When I'm done with this I'll look back through Gleam's posts to see if this is true, but on the surface I'd say that sort of thing does not reflect well on Gleam. An out-of-character willingness to concede a point to one player that would not be conceded to others earlier is strange, like he's not unwilling to be confrontational with that one player.

I don't really like Gleam at the moment, but I've been focused on the whole "We shouldn't lynch so that way town might not die" statement for the majority of my time thinking about Gleam. Can we get statements of intent from people voting Gleam (Luffy, Silverwolf, Marsh, ika, SVS, & Scotty) to clarify their viewpoints?

There are legitimately 8 people whose names start with "S." That's weird.

Ohhh okay, I really don't think this post looks good for gleam. Fuzz is partially committing to the gleam bandwagon, but not completely, like he might be ready to hop on the bus but he's not sure about it and wants to have other people make the commitment for him. OR this is just a baddie waffling.

Spoiler: show

hey uzz what caught your eye?

Sloonei pointed out that you had said you would ISO Wilgy but we had yet to see any results of that ISO. Usually when someone goes through another player's post history they publicly analyze it, both to check their own logic and conclusions and to share those conclusions, along with discussion if need be. I appreciated him reminding us of your failure to deliver.

Indiglo as I understand it an "ISO" is going through a specific player's post history, not just a normal reread. There's a nifty button that can list all posts a user has posted in the current topic just below the avatar, which makes the process much easier.

Agreed, to an extent. I think we will likely find them to be functionally identical, but perhaps we'll have a late-game poll for releasing a single arrested player.

Linki: Ah yes, the Prisoner sockpuppet accounts. Yes, they are probably anonymously in a chat together. Although the anonymity of socks would be irrelevant given that they arrive one at a time, right when players are arrested. The anonymity will be for us. They'll show up at some point.

That's a very astute observation LC, I appreciate that.

To make things clear Silverwolf, if I take issue with you doing something I'll let you know so we can have a chat. It's much easier to be direct than to be passive-aggressive and speak in implications.

Sloonei I enjoy your stance on vote explanation.

i mena if it helps i aslo think luffy is twon

Why? What facts lead you to that conclusion?

protip: im a gut player so logic and reasons are thing si never use nor do i use posts

So you form conclusions without logic or posts, but with gut alone. Do you prefer pizaaz also, or is that not kosher?

Congrats Scotty! Not bad for a red shirt.

These observations about Epi's inconsitencies are interesting. Is he historically a "feel" based player or is he more concrete?

Also, on this note, we all think you've been doing a (more than) excellent job so far this game being engaged. We understand though that it's been a talkative thread. As long as you all submit your night power (if you have one), vote in the polls, and are having fun, that's good enough for us. So don't feel pressured otherwise. You all are doing great.

This is disgustingly positive. Like, Troop Leader Snickerdoodle-Baking Flowers & Sunshine positive.

This post makes me feel good about Epi and ika. Fuzz takes multiple little jabs at each of them throughout this post. That is the kind of thing I associate with baddies trying to push lynches of townies, as I've observed a few other times earlier in this post.

RadicalFuzz is fishy. He is just staying in the sidelines asking people random questions and commenting on what is currently going on, but he hasn't actually posted any suspicions of his own. He is aware of what's going on, but is not actually participating. Feels like blending.

This is a fun change of pace, someone noticing that. I'm not a freeform writer, I need pinpricks of inquisition to get going, so what did you have in mind?

Matt are you concerned you're focusing too much on one interaction from Day 1? You've said very little else, and most of it was related to that interaction with Golden from Day 1.

Turnip if you don't know who to vote for then just vote for me.

I don't know who Fuzz is quoting here, but whoever it is gets a slight town ping from me. I'm not sure how to feel about his interactions with Turnip Head down the stretch yesterday. Fuzz kept telling him to vote for him. I interpreted this at the time as Fuzz feeling comfortable that he wasn't going to be lynched, so if someone didn't know where to put their vote, they could just throw it away on him. I'm not sure what to make of this strategy, but I am still slightly inclined to feel like that's what he was doing.

Matt is either playing from a high tightrope or is town. The risk/reward for his actions feels like high/medium if he's scum.
Sloonei is my strongest townread, as his posts have consistently made logical sense and he's avoided tunnelling on one player or interaction. It feels like he's trying to solve the game, and that's good.
You look town-y to me, for similar reasons to Sloonei. The difference is your tone reads as a little early to reach a conclusion, like you're content with finding enough facts to reach a conclusion at all, not necessarily the correct one.

Spirityo still has said next to nothing and we're a few hours out from Day 2 ending. His four posts consist of the following. A "linki - that's a good idea", one "I agree with Sloonei about the cultural differences between RYM & Syndicate", a greeting to everyone, and an apology for missing the vote. Absolutely zero content whatsoever.
Enrique I don't like because of his refusal to explain his vote on Day 1. That entire situation read as if he was nervous, if that makes sense, like he didn't have a reason at the time of his vote but decided he needed one.

I refuse to touch the Silverwolf/ika thing with a 39 & 1/2 foot pole. There's some logic to be found in interactions regarding them, but so much emotion that I'd probably end up stepping on someone's toes and they'd get mad at me for their decision to wear sandals.

My vote's going to be used to prevent a tie today. I'm indifferent as to where specifically it goes.

Turnip the reason you should vote for me is so you stop twiddling your thumbs about who to vote for.

Llama can you elaborate on your conclusion that Luffy's posts scream "cop?"

He kept buddying me. The "he" Fuzz is addressing in this post is Turnip Head. I am still uncertain how to interpret their interactions, but at first glace I'd say I feel good about Turnip here. I can sense a little bit of timidness from Fuzz here, like he was trying to shake off a player (TH) who he felt was on to him. He buddied me a lot, so I have reason to believe he'd do the same for other vocal townies.
Here I am beginning to think his sprityo accusation might look a little like bussing. If sprit/matt 2 is bad, then he would have been the easiest bus option at the time, because he'd made like two posts. But he's also just an extremely low hanging piece of fruit for the same reason. Same with Enrique in his next point.

Llama I think that attempting to start discussion inherently requires choosing a topic, to some degree. Like writing a history book. There's so many things you could choose that bias is automatic since you can't choose everything. I definitely see what you're saying but I think the statement that literally everything he's been saying is coming from that perspective is pushing it.

Zebra it seems as if the multiple players that do suspect Epi suspect him based off of play style, of things or habits that are out of the ordinary, but you say you're not suspecting him because of play style. Do you disagree with their assessments?

Here he is defending Luffy. I'm starting to feel less good about DDL in Fuzz's post history now. He has been all over the place, waffling it seems with each new post.

After this point the bandwagon started up and he was basically just a cornered bad guy and I don't think he really produces any new content.
I also didn't touch his interactions with Zebra at all here, though there were a few of them. They all seemed kind of conversational and light. I am hoping to look at them in more detail in a later post because they just kind of confused me all around.

I've changed my mind on DDL's involvement in this post history from last night. While Fuzz seems to be trying to provoke suspicion on him in a few places, he also spells a peculiar amount of time defending him. It's like he couldn't make up his mind how to approach DDL. I'll have to look at DDL's posts themselves to get the full picture. Given how much Fuzz buddied me, I can see him taking that approach with other vocal players (like I said for Turnip Head), so it could be the case that he simply started out wanting to try to get Luffy lynched, but then got scared and backed off, so he started buddying him as well.
Gleam does not look good. Quin doesn't look peachy. Epi and ika do look peachy.

[Sloonei]

ISOing Gleam:

My general strategy is to point out things that I don't like.

Gleam do you understand my confusion at your policy of "I'd rather not lynch civs Day 1 than try to lynch scum" in this format? I mentioned it earlier but that was in the big spoilered post and I want to make sure I get the chance to talk to you about this.

Mmm, I had missed you addressing me in that spoiler post. Apologies.

Yeah, the way you put it makes sense. I was kind of operating under the principle that both mafia families were the traditional "civilians" of the game , and that's kind of how they're being treated by everyone here. But it is, in the end, going to boil down to which family is left standing. It's not something I'd really considered, nor anyone else as far as I can see. The cops are the more imminent threat.

Yeah, not only is the tone of this post different from all the other questions and accusations about his Day 1 approach, but it's also the only time prior to the Fire Drill that he addressed Fuzz at all. That's not hugely damning, of course, because Fuzz wasn't the most active player in the game, but it's still a bit eye-opening.

So let's see what he has to say once the wagon started up:

WHOA whoa whoa. I go to take a shower and I come back and everyone that had voted for me all of sudden switched bandwagons entirely??

I don't understand this at all. I take it that it was in response to some questionable action that Fuzz took to tie a vote? In wondering whether or not it's to save a teammate?

I'm reading over the posts now and yeah, it does seem like Fuzz is flipping a bit on some opinions. I truthfully haven't examined him at all prior to this point. I will try and examine some posts before the day is over but I don't know if I'll get to it in time.

But I recall a few instances of a couple people wanting to use their votes to break some ties, even being said so in this forum. What am I missing that was special about Fuzz's vote?

LLLLLINKIIIII

gleam's explanation of this post is that he made it over a longer stretch of time, where he started to type it and then got caught up after the fact, which explains why he goes from "not understanding" to seeing where we're coming from. But then he also backtracks on that a bit, and says Fuzz is not guilty of anything extraordinary that hasn't been done by others. Getting vibes much like my Quin vibes here.

Now I don't know if ika or everyone who all of a sudden switched sides is more suspicious. This bandwagon is insane. I don't have enough time to process it.

Linki @ Dragon: I remember that quote, I just don't know if he was specific about voting or just getting involved in the situation. Which was pretty heated at the time.

Double linki: Fuzz, you don't care which of us dies? Now you ARE starting to sound like a baddie.

This post looks better. He's no longer defending Fuzz.

I also think his subsequent explanations after the lynch, here and here read as much more convincing and believable responses than any of Quin's. I'm still feeling a bit uneasy about gleam, but he's not presently in my top tier of suspects.