[END] Turf Wars: Battle of the Hosts

[agleaminranks]

Punk-ass. You've been tunneling me since the beginning. You want information? You wanna lynch me for the info regardless of my alignment, right?

Then make my day. See how much my flip will help you. Or how much it will help the baddies, I should say. Cuz I think it will hurt us good guys far more than you think.

You hack.

[Sloonei]

I've been going back and for that on DDL but I'm currently thinking he's town. A lot of the things that people keep throwing suspicion at him for seem too scattered and tentative. I always come out feeling like I understand why a townie would be playing the way he is, and I feel good about him.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Punk-ass. You've been tunneling me since the beginning. You want information? You wanna lynch me for the info regardless of my alignment, right?

Still waiting for you to show where I said this "regardless of alignment" stuff.

[Nerolunar]

I think we should stay on the Sig lynch. You guys can always build a case on Gleam later, but right now Sig needs to go.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Cuz I think it will hurt us good guys far more than you think.

Yes it will.

Death to all the cops.

[Sloonei]

I think we should stay on the Sig lynch. You guys can always build a case on Gleam later, but right now Sig needs to go.

See I felt this was an hour ago too, but now I'm not so sure.

[Nerolunar]

I think we should stay on the Sig lynch. You guys can always build a case on Gleam later, but right now Sig needs to go.

See I felt this was an hour ago too, but now I'm not so sure.

Why?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I've been going back and for that on DDL but I'm currently thinking he's town. A lot of the things that people keep throwing suspicion at him for seem too scattered and tentative. I always come out feeling like I understand why a townie would be playing the way he is, and I feel good about him.

Tell me, what is suspicious about the way I'm playing. I'm askig this more out of curiosity.

[Silverwolf]

Moved my vote to gleam. DDL is town.

Bolding and underlining is a pain mobile posting.

Ika-I know you are working all day and night but if you check this on break-would you be willing to vote for gleam?

[Nerolunar]

Are the cops at work here? Its rubbing me the wrong way that several votes are shifting now.

Do you really want the Sig discussion to continue for a another day?

[indiglo]

Do you see me calling out the other two people who are voting for me? Or the person who voted for me and then changed? No, because we spent all of last day period arguing. MetalMarsh notwithstanding, he has yet to give a good reason, but he at least said he would formulate his argument. It's probably a ridiculous argument knowing Marshie, but I'll hold him to his word. They at least have some logic behind their actions. You have none.

If I had voted for someone with whom I had had zero contact with for the whole game and then refused to elaborate as to why, I would be absolutely skewered by everyone around me. This is absolute ridiculousness.

Found this post of Gleam's as I'm re-reading. He was talking to SW, for having voted him. Ironic, isn't it?


Still re-reading.

[Turnip Head]

Gleam I'm reading your ISO and I do like some of your posts, I think you demonstrate a townie mindset in a few places. Specifically the posts where you show frustration at not being able to get a read on Zebra. Cops don't care about being able to make reads on players.

What I'm having trouble wrapping my head around is, how you can call BR's play today as "hit and run" if you hadn't read the whole thread yet, and how that accusation is a little hypocritical in light of your vote. Townies are hypocritical sometimes. I just want to know if you have any thoughts on that.

[Sloonei]

I've been going back and for that on DDL but I'm currently thinking he's town. A lot of the things that people keep throwing suspicion at him for seem too scattered and tentative. I always come out feeling like I understand why a townie would be playing the way he is, and I feel good about him.

Tell me, what is suspicious about the way I'm playing. I'm askig this more out of curiosity.

Nothing, in my opinion. Everything that's given me pause has ended up making me feel good about you.

[Epignosis]

I wanted to go over the Long Con voters yesterday, but I had other stuff to do.

Turnip Head (12), Silverwolf (13), sig (18), a2thezebra (19), Serge (23), Quin (25) 23%

Turnip Head first became suspicious of LC here and enthusiastically encouraged people to lynch him. I don't get the impression that that enthusiasm was phony.
In contrast, Silverwolf's vote was, for my tastes, weak and decidedly unenthusiastic.
a2z admitted to voting to save sig (and accused Silverwolf of being bad in the bargain).
Serge likes "emergency sig," whatever that is.
Quin admitted to actually saving sig, but the vote for LC was cast begrudgingly.

ika
9
Quin (5), Nerolunar (6), agleaminranks (11), Soneji (12), Serge (14), RadicalFuzz (16), Enrique (23), Long Con (28), sig (29) 31%

Only Quin and Serge from the earlier list voted to lynch ika Day 2.

As far as I can gather (some of the quote tags are messed up), Quin voted ika for what he later decided were cultural differences (a change facilitated by sig), and then voted ika again because ika was being arrogant and not giving Quin anything to work with. Correct me if I'm wrong in that assessment, but if that's the case, I don't know what to make of it.

Serge's post I'm going to quote rather than link:

I like thellama73's in-depth post about why he thinks Luffy is a cop. I don't necessarily agree with it but that amount of perception doesn't reek of scum to me. If he held on to just the "this game is hard to win for cops" thing, I may have voted for him.

I think ika is acting like a very naughty deer caught between the headlights. I honestly don't remember the case against gleam anymore, and the one against Epignosis half-built on his meta, which I don't take stock on.

Um, someone tell me how to vote.

ika

Does that work?

Serge: You characterized ika as "a very naughty deer caught between the headlights." I won't give you an A for figurative language (what the hell does that even mean?), but what I want to know is this: How is "emergency sig," which you liked, different or similar to "very naughty deer caught between the headlights ika" Day 2? In more detail than strange similes, what led you to vote ika Day 2 and LC Day 3?

Because if sig is bad, I think you should be next.

[Sloonei]

I think we should stay on the Sig lynch. You guys can always build a case on Gleam later, but right now Sig needs to go.

See I felt this was an hour ago too, but now I'm not so sure.

Why?

I've had doubts based on no new developments about my own feelings toward sig. I don't feel like I've given him an honest investigation yet, but he looked so shaky for a couple of days that I couldn't help but feel he was bad. Gleam has been floating around as more of a suspect all game for me and I've reconsidered a few things based on his recent, very bad looking, vote on Black Rock.

[Sloonei]

Gleam I'm reading your ISO and I do like some of your posts, I think you demonstrate a townie mindset in a few places. Specifically the posts where you show frustration at not being able to get a read on Zebra. Cops don't care about being able to make reads on players.

What I'm having trouble wrapping my head around is, how you can call BR's play today as "hit and run" if you hadn't read the whole thread yet, and how that accusation is a little hypocritical in light of your vote. Townies are hypocritical sometimes. I just want to know if you have any thoughts on that.

You just brought up a thing I've noticed myself doing in the past as scum: expressing frustration at not being able to read someone or something clearly. I would not necessarily count that as a town thing. But I'm not looking at the posts your referencing right now, so I dunno.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

There is a post from Sig I quoted early where he mentions Serge that gave me an impression of soft distancing. You guys might want to look at it (I'm on phone so I won't quote again).

[Turnip Head]

Gleam I'm reading your ISO and I do like some of your posts, I think you demonstrate a townie mindset in a few places. Specifically the posts where you show frustration at not being able to get a read on Zebra. Cops don't care about being able to make reads on players.

What I'm having trouble wrapping my head around is, how you can call BR's play today as "hit and run" if you hadn't read the whole thread yet, and how that accusation is a little hypocritical in light of your vote. Townies are hypocritical sometimes. I just want to know if you have any thoughts on that.

You just brought up a thing I've noticed myself doing in the past as scum: expressing frustration at not being able to read someone or something clearly. I would not necessarily count that as a town thing. But I'm not looking at the posts your referencing right now, so I dunno.

Hmmm, interesting. I don't think that's how I play as bad, but maybe you have a point. His frustration felt real to me.

I keep going back and forth on Gleam tbh.

[Silverwolf]

I get frustrated not being able to read players far more as town than as scum. I mean as scum, why would I care? I guess I could fake it but I usually don't bother with that. As town, it frustrates me to no end when someone has been in the game all along and is posting so little or saying so little with their posting that I can't figure out their alignment. I usually just want to lynch them and if they are scum, great. If they are bad town, they aren't being helpful anyway so meh. Sounds harsh but it's always been my style.

[indiglo]

Upon ISOing Gleam, here's what I notice. He has shared virtually 0 suspicions all game. All he has done is occasionally list people he's leaning town on.

First, here he says " Maybe mislynches are unavoidable but I'll be damned if I at least don't try to prevent civs from getting lynched by their fellow civs." Open to interpretation, but it seems as if he's putting himself in a different category from the civs' 'fellow civs'.

Next, here on March 8, he mentions "If the next few days turn out to be civilian lynches I think the no-shows right now would be the best place to look, moving forward."

Which, the next few days did not turn out to be civilian lynches, so... I guess he's looking at low posters anyway?


This one I already mentioned as seeming weird...

I still think the best lead I have is the results of day 1, Sock's intervention, and Wilgy's alignment. Or what I strongly believe it to be.

I'm going to look at the people who were targeting Wilgy the best I can. I think it's possible there's a cop in the group.

How would the cops know who the Don is, so early in the game?

They don't. Did I say I thought Wilgy was the Don? I just am pretty sure of his alignment and familial association. The cops don't know who the Don is, but they can at least figure out who isn't on their team.

He seems super sure of what the cops know, then adds that he doesn't know who Wilgy is, he's just pretty sure of his alignment/family. This made me



In the following posts, he mentions people he is reading as civ / town:

Wilgy

Here he throws a little shade at Matt & Epi, but still doesn't think they're cops

DDL & SVS

Matt, Scott, Epi, Mongoose, Llama, Zebra, SVS


Another interesting post:

Agreeing with what you are saying doesn't equal reading you as a civ.

SVS and Sloonei pointed out something I hadn't yet noticed. I then read your posts and concluded that indeed, you were saying a lot without actually getting yourself involved in the actual game (hunting baddies).

When we're this early in the game and far more likely (statistically) to lynch a good guy, I'm more focused on minimizing civilian deaths than actively trying to suss out the police. That's just my strategy. You can agree with it or not, but that's what makes the most sense to me. Granted, once a day or two goes by and we have some patterns to examine, then the baddie hunt needs to become the main focus. If I'm still being noncommittal at that point, you can criticize me of not getting involved all you want. But I've certainly been participating in the discussion. Going all gung-ho and throwing accusations left and right isn't the only way to get involved.

But, then when recently criticized, he started cursing.


And the only case he has made on anyone in the game so far, was on Scotty here in which he said a couple of contradictory things (contradicting statements he previously made in the game) like this:

I really dislike some of Scotty's actions so far this game.

Now, that was said on March 12. A post I referenced up top from March 6 said this about Scotty:

Scott and Epignosis are both acting pretty typical, even if they're somewhat low posters for the game right now.

Back to the March 12 post:

Several people have argued so far that the civilians win when they get the most information, or that it's the best strategy for moving forward. What sort of information do we get for lynching the player with the least amount of activity? Practically zero.

Yet, on March 7 he said:

I'm a bit concerned about the non-posters at the moment

And then of course, today:

You were on my list as a potential suspect because of the laying low during the hooplah of Day 2. I said that I thought the low posters during that time had to be hiding some bad guys. And your behavior during this day has been very hit and run.

Linki~ will post then read.

[indiglo]

I've got to run for just a bit, but I will be back. Let's keep our wheels turning together.

DDL, I will look for that post you mentioned pulling when I get home if someone else hasn't done it yet by then.

[Turnip Head]

You make some really good points indiglo. I think the point about Scotty is the weakest, he could simply have changed his read. He might try to be more consistent about that if he was bad. The rest has my attention.

[Marmot]

Hey guys, sorry I haven't been able to post much today. Finals week and all that, but I'll be around again tonight.

I'm voting sig right now though.

[a2thezebra]

Btw, way to be Zeebs! Let's get that ika! Also, don't like that I'm orange on your list.

Your behavior during the previous lynch...

[a2thezebra]

Whoops my vote suddenly slipped and now it's on agleaminranks.

ur bad

[chaindeath]

Chaindeath doesn't know how he wants to vote... He needs to do it for the day but all of the people with votes on them feel like they could be town. He's going to stick with his guns and vote Nero because he is sure that he's bad.

He was also questioned about who will be bad if Sig flips bad, he doesn't know. There are too many options for one person's death to tell for sure on any of them. Long post short of Sig flips bad he's bad if he flips good we as a whole messed up and need to do some looming at those who pushed the vote. It doesn't make them bad but more suspect he supposes.

He does need to go for a run today while it's nice out. He may or may not be back for the EoD.

[Golden]

Whoops my vote suddenly slipped and now it's on agleaminranks.

ur bad

Why?

[Nerolunar]

Chaindeath do you have any suspicions on me apart from the OMGUS?

[Sloonei]

Whoops my vote suddenly slipped and now it's on agleaminranks.

ur bad

i am not and neither are you

[Golden]

Voted gleam

I'm interested to see how this EoD shakes out.

[sig]

Nero where is this huge push on me coming from? You weren't for my lynch at all until last night, actually I don't remember you mentioning me at all until I brought up that you may be scum. Your also using the same argument many players have used. I find that odd. It looks like your trying to push my lynch for unsavory reasons.

[Golden]

I have to say, Nero's angle is the same as what yours was on day 2 sig. The moment the lynch shifts he blames the cops, in preference to actually understanding why civilians would be making a shift.

Personally, my reason for a shift is

Zebra's vouching for sig gives me some pause, and although there are reasons to be hesitant in taking a vouch on faith it feels like a fairly specific vouch.
Fuzz's vote for ika looks like a gleam save to me, and I've always felt this way. I've felt as dodgy about gleam as I have about sig.
Indi makes good points on gleam, and actually I just feel I have far less in the way of a sense that gleam is trying to catch bad guys.

I can see a world in which either of them are civ. I still lean more bad than civ on each. But I've decided I'm willing to allow the sig thing to play out for longer.

[sig]

I think we should stay on the Sig lynch. You guys can always build a case on Gleam later, but right now Sig needs to go.

Are the cops at work here? Its rubbing me the wrong way that several votes are shifting now.

Do you really want the Sig discussion to continue for a another day?

These two posts are pingy. Keep on the Sig lynch don't even look for someone else who might be scum build their case later. Then the cops are at work? That would be the top posters who everyone thinks are civs? This seems like fear mongering to me. IF Gleam/Quin is mafia then so is Nero. My predictions have been off this game though. I've not posted much today for two reasons one I thought I was done and two I was worked up. After thinking about it my suspicion of DDL seems a little OMGUS. However, I still think Sloonie could be mafia. Golden is most likely a civ as is SVS.

So for Gleam I did defend him hard day 1, however he seemed to have faded out and flew under the radar I don't like that for Quin it is different. On the surface him giving me votes looks good. However, with the amount of vote changing he might not have suspected me of living. This could have easily been done to build civ credit. Not to mention keep me alive another day and occupy the thread. This and Nero saying we should focus on me today is odd. I don't know if the mafia would be so obvious and I might just be being paranoid, but Quin seemed to flip on his view of me quite quickly. I'll reread it, but he if I'm correct called for my lynch today? I'm unsure if both Nero/Quin are mafia, but I believe one is. Gleam is an unknown I wouldn't be opposed to his lynch today and would vote for him though I'd rather see Quin/Nero lynched.


linki: Okay true Golden, though before today he didn't really call for my lynch and the build your case on Gleam later post was off putting.

[Epignosis]

I just feel I have far less in the way of a sense that gleam is trying to catch bad guys.

As opposed to sig, who has named everybody in the phone book twice?

[sig]

Nevermind looked over quin's post really quick I confused one of Quins and Nero's posts. Sorry about that. I'd much rather lynch Nero then Quin this is in part since he says he gave me extra votes which both has me on alert but also makes me not want to lynch him, if that makes sense.

linki: Not everyone I've had some solid civ reads throughout the game as well as scum reads. I might have been wrong but I've been active and my view has evolved.

[Golden]

I just feel I have far less in the way of a sense that gleam is trying to catch bad guys.

As opposed to sig, who has named everybody in the phone book twice?

Yep, basically.

Don't forget I'm trying to rank who I think looks worse, not who I think looks great.

[Epignosis]

I think we should stay on the Sig lynch. You guys can always build a case on Gleam later, but right now Sig needs to go.

Are the cops at work here? Its rubbing me the wrong way that several votes are shifting now.

Do you really want the Sig discussion to continue for a another day?

These two posts are pingy. Keep on the Sig lynch don't even look for someone else who might be scum build their case later. Then the cops are at work? That would be the top posters who everyone thinks are civs? This seems like fear mongering to me.

Hold on, hold on.



Let me catch my breath.



Woo.

[Nerolunar]

Nero where is this huge push on me coming from? You weren't for my lynch at all until last night, actually I don't remember you mentioning me at all until I brought up that you may be scum. Your also using the same argument many players have used. I find that odd. It looks like your trying to push my lynch for unsavory reasons.

My main reason for lynching you is mostly based on how much time has been used arguing whether or not we should lynch you - it ties in with what happened at the CFD and such, and there has been a lot of confusion surrounding it. Its dividing us and I don´t like it. Its like we can´t move on until you´re lynched. I guess its also due to paranoia that I feel this way, but I believe that we will have a more clear approach to things once you´re gone. The votes are shifting quickly to Gleam again and its making me uncomfortable how sure we were to lynch you. The only thing Gleam posted was a contradiction which could have been a mistake and yet people still change their votes when before they were quite sure that you are bad. It tickles me all the wrong places

Linki - Not be opposed to Gleam lynch eh? Its your only choice man. Im not opposed to lynching Gleam either, just not today. Whats scaring me are the changing votes.

[ika]

On break but got a chance to switch votes won't be here for eod

[Golden]

I think we should stay on the Sig lynch. You guys can always build a case on Gleam later, but right now Sig needs to go.

Are the cops at work here? Its rubbing me the wrong way that several votes are shifting now.

Do you really want the Sig discussion to continue for a another day?

These two posts are pingy. Keep on the Sig lynch don't even look for someone else who might be scum build their case later. Then the cops are at work? That would be the top posters who everyone thinks are civs? This seems like fear mongering to me.

Hold on, hold on.



Let me catch my breath.



Woo.

Yeah, it is quite funny, in that this is EXACTLY why I've been accusing sig of being bad for days. It is exactly this behaviour that has made me believe I have him pegged.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

2 vote difference. Chances of cops buying a vote and using it to off a civ are increasing as we speak.

[sig]

Nero where is this huge push on me coming from? You weren't for my lynch at all until last night, actually I don't remember you mentioning me at all until I brought up that you may be scum. Your also using the same argument many players have used. I find that odd. It looks like your trying to push my lynch for unsavory reasons.

My main reason for lynching you is mostly based on how much time has been used arguing whether or not we should lynch you - it ties in with what happened at the CFD and such, and there has been a lot of confusion surrounding it. Its dividing us and I don´t like it. Its like we can´t move on until you´re lynched. I guess its also due to paranoia that I feel this way, but I believe that we will have a more clear approach to things once you´re gone. The votes are shifting quickly to Gleam again and its making me uncomfortable how sure we were to lynch you. The only thing Gleam posted was a contradiction which could have been a mistake and yet people still change their votes when before they were quite sure that you are bad. It tickles me all the wrong places

Linki - Not be opposed to Gleam lynch eh? Its your only choice man. Im not opposed to lynching Gleam either, just not today. Whats scaring me are the changing votes.

But we caught Fuzz that way?

[Epignosis]

Nero where is this huge push on me coming from? You weren't for my lynch at all until last night, actually I don't remember you mentioning me at all until I brought up that you may be scum. Your also using the same argument many players have used. I find that odd. It looks like your trying to push my lynch for unsavory reasons.

My main reason for lynching you is mostly based on how much time has been used arguing whether or not we should lynch you - it ties in with what happened at the CFD and such, and there has been a lot of confusion surrounding it. Its dividing us and I don´t like it. Its like we can´t move on until you´re lynched. I guess its also due to paranoia that I feel this way, but I believe that we will have a more clear approach to things once you´re gone. The votes are shifting quickly to Gleam again and its making me uncomfortable how sure we were to lynch you. The only thing Gleam posted was a contradiction which could have been a mistake and yet people still change their votes when before they were quite sure that you are bad. It tickles me all the wrong places

Linki - Not be opposed to Gleam lynch eh? Its your only choice man. Im not opposed to lynching Gleam either, just not today. Whats scaring me are the changing votes.

But we caught Fuzz that way?

"We."

[Golden]

Nero where is this huge push on me coming from? You weren't for my lynch at all until last night, actually I don't remember you mentioning me at all until I brought up that you may be scum. Your also using the same argument many players have used. I find that odd. It looks like your trying to push my lynch for unsavory reasons.

My main reason for lynching you is mostly based on how much time has been used arguing whether or not we should lynch you - it ties in with what happened at the CFD and such, and there has been a lot of confusion surrounding it. Its dividing us and I don´t like it. Its like we can´t move on until you´re lynched. I guess its also due to paranoia that I feel this way, but I believe that we will have a more clear approach to things once you´re gone. The votes are shifting quickly to Gleam again and its making me uncomfortable how sure we were to lynch you. The only thing Gleam posted was a contradiction which could have been a mistake and yet people still change their votes when before they were quite sure that you are bad. It tickles me all the wrong places

Linki - Not be opposed to Gleam lynch eh? Its your only choice man. Im not opposed to lynching Gleam either, just not today. Whats scaring me are the changing votes.

But we caught Fuzz that way?

Sig, stuff like this - like, I really don't care if you are good or bad - stuff like this just makes you the awesomest of the awesomest. You are so much fun to play with. It makes me smile.

[Golden]

2 vote difference. Chances of cops buying a vote and using it to off a civ are increasing as we speak.

I don't like this post at all. The second time you have posted an oppositional post in the face of a changing vote towards end of day. If Gleam ends up lynched and comes back bad, expect my eyes tomorrow.

[Nerolunar]

Not guarantee that it will work a second time, Sig. I believe lynching you is the safe option for today.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

2 vote difference. Chances of cops buying a vote and using it to off a civ are increasing as we speak.

I don't like this post at all. The second time you have posted an oppositional post in the face of a changing vote towards end of day. If Gleam ends up lynched and comes back bad, expect my eyes tomorrow.

Bring it on.

We just had a civ lynch because of the loan shark mechanic. Are we seriously giving that a chance to happen again?

I'm okay with lynching gleam. What I'm not okay is having a tie between gleam and sig where the chance of at least one being a civ is fairly high so the cops can just manipulate it.

Either we lynch gleam by a large margin, or I'll oppose it.

[Scotty]

I don't like how close this vote has come. I dont mind a gleam lynch either (or Quin, God rest his soul) but I don't want the loan votes having another hand in a lynch right now.

Linki; yes

[Golden]

2 vote difference. Chances of cops buying a vote and using it to off a civ are increasing as we speak.

I don't like this post at all. The second time you have posted an oppositional post in the face of a changing vote towards end of day. If Gleam ends up lynched and comes back bad, expect my eyes tomorrow.

Bring it on.

We just had a civ lynch because of the loan shark mechanic. Are we seriously giving that a chance to happen again?

I'm okay with lynching gleam. What I'm not okay is having a tie between gleam and sig where the chance of at least one being a civ is fairly high so the cops can just manipulate it.

Either we lynch gleam by a large margin, or I'll oppose it.

But at one and a half hours out from the lynch, you have no idea how close things will be, but you are scaring people into the idea that it will be close a long way out. How about you wait until much closer to deadline to bemoan its closeness?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Also I'm puzzled how the guy who literally said he'd eat a camel if Sig was bad wants to back down from his lynch now.

Put your vote where your mouth is, Golden.