[END] Turf Wars: Battle of the Hosts

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I still think it's a stupid plan, btw.

Why?

Maybe ISO my posts. I'm pretty sure I had a long debate with Golden on Night 2 about it.

I'm not gonna reproduce every response I made during this game because suddenly there are 15 new players who hadn't been playing with me before. It's not the idea I make of a fun game. If you guys want to lynch me for that, go ahead.

I'm not asking you to reproduce any responses. I honestly don't believe you. I think you're holding steadfast to a perspective you espoused prior to the CFD, and then you felt like you had to stick to your guns after the fact to alleviate the bad looks it'd produce. To think it was "a stupid plan" after the results it produced is frankly nonsense and I don't think you really believe that.

Yes I do. We lynched a baddie because of luck, and statistically that shouldn't happen often again.

It's a bad plan, just like lynching at random is a bad plan. The accuracy is not reliable, the reads by association are not reliable, everything is not realiable. One black swan does not mean you have a good chance of finding black swans in the wild.

[Epignosis]

Dragon's opening suspects were Enrique, ika, Sloonei, and Matt, all for lightweight, early reasons.

Day 1, first vote goes to Tranq, who was also the Night 1 arrest.

Also I like how the votes are utterly and completely scattered.

Let's scatter them a little more.

Tranq

DDL answers a question on behalf of Scotty. Shortly after that, DDL's vote goes to gleam, where it remained...but:

I've just seen Dinny sheep on three different suspects in less than an hour.

First gleam, then Golden, and now Wilgy.

After he had already sheeped on Ika and Enrique.

Could be just a coincidence. It's not like there is a copyright on baddie reads that we are supposed not to breach. But it's uncanny. Every time player A suspects B, Dinny suddenly starts focusing on player B too.

linki: 10 posts. Fuck this. Gonna post mine then read those.

DDL calls Diiny out for "sheeping" (is that even a verb?), yet doesn't pursue Diiny further (who would later go on to be lynched Day 1). Instead, DDL puts the screws to gleam:

Oh sorry, you are not opposed to the idea of hunting mafia. You just don't want to lynch them. Accusing each other is okay as long as no blood is drawn.

I'm sorry, your responses could be genuine but you are filling every box of my checklist.

- First you were not trying to hunt scum.
- Then people called you out and you literally accused all three people who were suspecting you. In other words, OMGUS.
- Then you say you are trying to protect civs when you had never posted a single civ read.
- Then you pull the "no lynch" theory out of nowhere. Which is a objectively bad theory because we can't win the game unless we try to lynch people.
- And now you are pigbacking on someone to validade your own points, when that someone doesn't actually have the same opinion as you. I've got lynched twice before as mafia for doing that, and lynched another mafioso for it. I think it's a good scumtell.

There's another Scotty post, this one in defense of him after Long Con speaks against Day 1 traditions. DDL's implication is a gambler's fallacy.

This is a reaction to the sig and gleam votes. Here's my beef with this. DDL was present at the end of the Day when gleam and sig made their votes. That means DDL could have berated them before about their votes. Instead, he waits until after the flip and distances himself from his own expressed opinions in the thread: "How dare you agree with what I said- I didn't even vote Diiny!" DDL takes no responsibility for people agreeing with his ideas and actually carrying out the lynch.

Here is DDL's response to llama. I didn't get anything out of that one way or the other.

Ironically, DDL does what he had just got onto gleam and sig for:

SVS makes a good point on Sloonei, his flip-flopping is weird.

And he provides no explanation or clarification. How is it weird? Does weird mean bad?

And for further irony:

Basically my perfect 100% loss rate as a civ after 4 games in the Syndicate makes me afraid of tunneling hard on anyone, I've come to the conclusion my tells just aren't that trustworthy.

Of course, if no better suspect appears, I might vote for gleam again.

If DDL can't trust his own instincts, then why get on those who may not trust their own and instead rely on someone else's input?

I believe what follows is the first interaction with RadicalFuzz:

Luffy are you concerned about getting heat for unfamiliarity, is that why you're calling Soneji to the stand to testify to your behavior?

No. I was defending myself from him.

I'm always concerned about getting heat for a number of reasons, because I think I'm very prone to getting heat. Even more in the forum I came from than in here, now that I think about it.

On the Soneji thing, I just found strange that he had a worse grasp of my meta than I thought he would have, since I have played more than double the amount of games with him than with anyone here.

This was me finding him suspicious, not asking him for validation.

I still haven't formed a decent opinion on him though, because he hasn't posted anymore. The guy seems to have problems being active in Syndicate games, for some reason.

Nope, scratch that:

In Radifcal Fuzz's first post, DDL is the first person named, and also the first "suspect," with the "I don't like it." However, in Fuzz's third post, Fuzz names a few things about DDL that he likes or agrees with. Going from "I don't like it" to fence sitting reeks of soft suspicion, the kind a person would have for a teammate.

That's Day 1 / Night 1. I'll look at the second phase later.

[Sloonei]

@Sloonie yes that is my reasoning for why you could be bad.

I am asking if there is anything else that makes you suspicious of me? Because that one point you're hinging on is a direct misinterpretation. When you first brought it up, I asked you to examine my posts from the same time frame where I continued to press RadicalFuzz. I think I mentioned it to Quin as well. Neither of you have done it. I was actively trying to read the thread and all the players during that whole thing. I was not certain of Fuzz's role during the events, so why should I have settled for his lynch immediately?

Please point to other suspicious things I've done.

[Golf]

I hope I didn't miss the opportunity to cast a vote. Are we lynching sig or ika?

WHAT

How can you vote as well?!

This might actually work to our advantage.

I'm assuming whoever the warden is can't vote as both the sock warden and the real player. So we can limit who the warden might be based on which named players don't vote today.

Everyone should vote.

[Host citation needed]

I think the Warden got priviledges just like us, but extra ones since his role is also in the game.

Either that or he just dun goof'd and voted as his sock, which I kinda doubt, since I expect better of Golden.

What advantage I could see, perhaps, is that whoever the Warden votes might not be a cop, especially if it's a name he could bring that person ahead in the tally. But even here, his move could be sheer WIFOM.

[NurseWilgy]

I hope I didn't miss the opportunity to cast a vote. Are we lynching sig or ika?

WHAT

How can you vote as well?!

I'm a taxpaying citizen of the US. Of course I can vote. You are a convicted felon. Why can you vote?

[Prisoner 509378]

Yes I do. We lynched a baddie because of luck, and statistically that shouldn't happen often again.

It's a bad plan, just like lynching at random is a bad plan. The accuracy is not reliable, the reads by association are not reliable, everything is not realiable. One black swan does not mean you have a good chance of finding black swans in the wild.

There was nothing "random" about it. There were concrete reasons produced in the thread that specifically favored moving the lynch to Fuzz, and numerous players took the opportunity. They didn't pull his name out of a hat. They didn't play powerball and end up with F-U-Z-Z. Nobody advocated CFDing to someone "at random". Of course that would be silly. You're criticizing a strategy that didn't even exist in this game.

I'll let you answer to Epi before I carry on with this.

[Scotty]

I hope I didn't miss the opportunity to cast a vote. Are we lynching sig or ika?

WHAT

How can you vote as well?!

This might actually work to our advantage.

I'm assuming whoever the warden is can't vote as both the sock warden and the real player. So we can limit who the warden might be based on which named players don't vote today.

Everyone should vote.

[Host citation needed]

I think the Warden got priviledges just like us, but extra ones since his role is also in the game.

Either that or he just dun goof'd and voted as his sock, which I kinda doubt, since I expect better of Golden.

What advantage I could see, perhaps, is that whoever the Warden votes might not be a cop, especially if it's a name he could bring that person ahead in the tally. But even here, his move could be sheer WIFOM.

@HOSTS
Can the Warden's role vote twice during prison breaks- 1 via sock and 1 via real moniker?

[Golden]

Yes I do. We lynched a baddie because of luck, and statistically that shouldn't happen often again.

It's a bad plan, just like lynching at random is a bad plan. The accuracy is not reliable, the reads by association are not reliable, everything is not realiable. One black swan does not mean you have a good chance of finding black swans in the wild.

There was nothing "random" about it. There were concrete reasons produced in the thread that specifically favored moving the lynch to Fuzz, and numerous players took the opportunity. They didn't pull his name out of a hat. They didn't play powerball and end up with F-U-Z-Z. Nobody advocated CFDing to someone "at random". Of course that would be silly. You're criticizing a strategy that didn't even exist in this game.

I'll let you answer to Epi before I carry on with this.

Exactly. Thats what both Epi AND DDL have been doing. Criticism for the hell of it.

[Epignosis]

I hope I didn't miss the opportunity to cast a vote. Are we lynching sig or ika?

[Golf]

I hope I didn't miss the opportunity to cast a vote. Are we lynching sig or ika?

WHAT

How can you vote as well?!

I'm a taxpaying citizen of the US. Of course I can vote. You are a convicted felon. Why can you vote?

Because. I. Am. Free. Literally earned it. What did you earn?

Also, shall we filter the player list according to this statement of yours? Which state in the US?

[Scotty]

I hope I didn't miss the opportunity to cast a vote. Are we lynching sig or ika?

This is the literal exercise of WIFOM.

I am choosing to disregard everything he writes so as not to influence the game.

[Golden]

I hope I didn't miss the opportunity to cast a vote. Are we lynching sig or ika?

WHAT

How can you vote as well?!

This might actually work to our advantage.

I'm assuming whoever the warden is can't vote as both the sock warden and the real player. So we can limit who the warden might be based on which named players don't vote today.

Everyone should vote.

[Host citation needed]

I think the Warden got priviledges just like us, but extra ones since his role is also in the game.

Either that or he just dun goof'd and voted as his sock, which I kinda doubt, since I expect better of Golden.

What advantage I could see, perhaps, is that whoever the Warden votes might not be a cop, especially if it's a name he could bring that person ahead in the tally. But even here, his move could be sheer WIFOM.

[Tangrowth]

@HOSTS
Can the Warden's role vote twice during prison breaks- 1 via sock and 1 via real moniker?

Yes.

[Epignosis]

Yes I do. We lynched a baddie because of luck, and statistically that shouldn't happen often again.

It's a bad plan, just like lynching at random is a bad plan. The accuracy is not reliable, the reads by association are not reliable, everything is not realiable. One black swan does not mean you have a good chance of finding black swans in the wild.

There was nothing "random" about it. There were concrete reasons produced in the thread that specifically favored moving the lynch to Fuzz, and numerous players took the opportunity. They didn't pull his name out of a hat. They didn't play powerball and end up with F-U-Z-Z. Nobody advocated CFDing to someone "at random". Of course that would be silly. You're criticizing a strategy that didn't even exist in this game.

I'll let you answer to Epi before I carry on with this.

Exactly. Thats what both Epi AND DDL have been doing. Criticism for the hell of it.

Um, no. Don't go telling lies on me.

[Golf]

@HOSTS
Can the Warden's role vote twice during prison breaks- 1 via sock and 1 via real moniker?

Yes.

Yeah, let's reward him for what a good job he did, keeping us locked up.

[Golden]

DDL

Because I hear rumour that prisoner 509 won best civilian in the Slammers 2015.

But also because I think DDL is bad.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I'm tired of this game. I have been feeling nothing but anger and frustration since Night 2. I don't think I've ever felt so bad about a mafia game before (sorry hosts, it's not your fault).

I'm gonna vote Sig and disappear until Night 6. Because I'll be travelling during this weekend. I'm about to do a very difficult exam and I want distance from the negativity this game brings.

Voting for Sig. We should have lynched him ages ago. If you want to know why, read all my posts about him. Or Epi's latest posts, since he pretty much summed what I think.

Bye.

[Golden]

Fair enough epi. I was thinking more of your response to the end of day four.

[Epignosis]

I hope I didn't miss the opportunity to cast a vote. Are we lynching sig or ika?

WHAT

How can you vote as well?!

I'm a taxpaying citizen of the US. Of course I can vote. You are a convicted felon. Why can you vote?

Because. I. Am. Free. Literally earned it. What did you earn?

Also, shall we filter the player list according to this statement of yours? Which state in the US?

I'm pretty sure Samuel Norton is from Maine.

[Golden]

I hope I didn't miss the opportunity to cast a vote. Are we lynching sig or ika?

WHAT

How can you vote as well?!

I'm a taxpaying citizen of the US. Of course I can vote. You are a convicted felon. Why can you vote?

Because. I. Am. Free. Literally earned it. What did you earn?

Also, shall we filter the player list according to this statement of yours? Which state in the US?

I'm pretty sure Samuel Norton is from Maine.

Just like everyone else in any Stephen King novel, pretty much.

[Prisoner 509378]

With the Warden and DDL both camping on sig, definitely count me out of supporting that lynch.

[Scotty]

@HOSTS
Can the Warden's role vote twice during prison breaks- 1 via sock and 1 via real moniker?

Yes.

Thanks sock.



Damn I thought for a second he futzed up.

That being said, I wouldn't put any value on what the warden thinks.

Linki: bye DDL

[Golden]

With the Warden and DDL both camping on sig, definitely count me out of supporting that lynch.

Wouldn't it be kind of excellent if the Warden was sig!

[Sloonei]

Y'know Maine was originally a part of Massachusetts

[Sloonei]

With the Warden and DDL both camping on sig, definitely count me out of supporting that lynch.

Moved my vote to Boomslang because I'll do anything this prisoner tells me.

[Golf]

With the Warden and DDL both camping on sig, definitely count me out of supporting that lynch.

Wouldn't it be kind of excellent if the Warden was sig!

From whom you've just moved your vote?

[Golden]

With the Warden and DDL both camping on sig, definitely count me out of supporting that lynch.

Wouldn't it be kind of excellent if the Warden was sig!

From whom you've just moved your vote?

I thought you thought I was the Warden? If thats what you really think, you'd think that I was still voting for sig...

Prisoner 740 is probably Australian.

[Golf]

With the Warden and DDL both camping on sig, definitely count me out of supporting that lynch.

Moved my vote to Boomslang because I'll do anything this prisoner tells me.

He didn't tell you to do anything.

[thellama73]

DDL

Because I hear rumour that prisoner 509 won best civilian in the Slammers 2015.

But also because I think DDL is bad.

Okay, now I'll switch my vote. DDL

[Prisoner 509378]

With the Warden and DDL both camping on sig, definitely count me out of supporting that lynch.

Moved my vote to Boomslang because I'll do anything this prisoner tells me.

What do you think of DDL's responses in the recent exchange between he and I? How about Epi's perspective of DDL?

[Sloonei]

@ myself: Though I'm with Scotty on the Warden's vote. It's clearly nothing but deliberate WIFOM. ika and sig are two players who have been widely suspected by different camps for much of the game. It's best not to read too much into it. I'm still not off of sig, but today's events have also pushed me more toward Enrique. I need to stop resolving to lynch sig at the start of every day.

[Golf]

With the Warden and DDL both camping on sig, definitely count me out of supporting that lynch.

Wouldn't it be kind of excellent if the Warden was sig!

From whom you've just moved your vote?

I thought you thought I was the Warden? If thats what you really think, you'd think that I was still voting for sig...

Prisoner 740 is probably Australian.

Nothing to do with who I think you are. Just playing along with whatever BS you're trying to serve the rest of the field.

[Golden]

With the Warden and DDL both camping on sig, definitely count me out of supporting that lynch.

Wouldn't it be kind of excellent if the Warden was sig!

From whom you've just moved your vote?

I thought you thought I was the Warden? If thats what you really think, you'd think that I was still voting for sig...

Prisoner 740 is probably Australian.

Nothing to do with who I think you are. Just playing along with whatever BS you're trying to serve the rest of the field.

No field here. Only a barren courtyard with high brick walls.

[Prisoner 509378]

I don't necessarily read into the Warden "casting suspicion" upon sig. That doesn't mean anything to me. But the vote must mean something, since it has an actual effect on what happens this day phase. And I see sig as the easiest lynch on the board. Maybe that's what they want me to think OoOoOoOoOoOoO but meh, I don't read him as bad anyway.

[Prisoner 509378]

Sloonei: general Quin question. Given the significant effort he has provided, are you given any pause about suspecting him merely on that basis? I know it's shaky ground to stand on for anyone, but it's a start that I'm often willing to fall back to when in doubt. I don't know Quin like you do though.

[Golden]

I read nothing into the Warden vote. It could go either way. The wardens vote didn't play into my choice to move my vote at all.

[Golf]

Roight, gotta go for now. Guess I'll look more into Enrislang and DDL, then. They've both adopted some form of abandon, as of now, in regards to how the End of Day 2 made them look.

Until then, Golden, gals and guys and mates. Golden.

[Scotty]

I'm tired of this game. I have been feeling nothing but anger and frustration since Night 2. I don't think I've ever felt so bad about a mafia game before (sorry hosts, it's not your fault).

I'm gonna vote Sig and disappear until Night 6. Because I'll be travelling during this weekend. I'm about to do a very difficult exam and I want distance from the negativity this game brings.

Voting for Sig. We should have lynched him ages ago. If you want to know why, read all my posts about him. Or Epi's latest posts, since he pretty much summed what I think.

Bye.

You haven't really taken any real heat until the past day or so. What happened at the end of Day 2 that made you frustrated?

Oh yeah, the CFD happened and you bugged out. I don't think this is a CFD thing. I think you're frustrated because your teammate got sniped.

Also, I think sig will get lynched at some point in this game. I very well think either you or sig could be the Warden.

I'm fine with putting a vote on Dragon right now.

Knowing full well, that, again, Quin and sig are still waiting for the train. I like the Enrislang argument too.

[Quin]

This thread has gotten crazy and I am now drowning in it. I'm working from noon till whenever they don't need me today. A girl got fired the other day and I have been covering her shifts. So I am going to vote for Quin. I still think Quins a good vote, even though I haven't read the past 25 freaking pages.

Interesting that Sloonei decided that me finding Scotty while not being caught up on his chaindeath ISO was suspicious yet had nothing to say when Black Rock did the same thing to me

[Scotty]

This thread has gotten crazy and I am now drowning in it. I'm working from noon till whenever they don't need me today. A girl got fired the other day and I have been covering her shifts. So I am going to vote for Quin. I still think Quins a good vote, even though I haven't read the past 25 freaking pages.

Interesting that Sloonei decided that me finding Scotty while not being caught up on his chaindeath ISO was suspicious yet had nothing to say when Black Rock did the same thing to me

Oh man I want to lynch you.

Teacher! Teacher! May I vote twice, like the Warden? I'll be a good boy, I swear!

[S~V~S]

This thread has gotten crazy and I am now drowning in it. I'm working from noon till whenever they don't need me today. A girl got fired the other day and I have been covering her shifts. So I am going to vote for Quin. I still think Quins a good vote, even though I haven't read the past 25 freaking pages.

Interesting that Sloonei decided that me finding Scotty while not being caught up on his chaindeath ISO was suspicious yet had nothing to say when Black Rock did the same thing to me

Do you have any thoughts that are not predicated on peoples opinions of you?

Linki

[S~V~S]

You're sketchy as hell, dude. Get used to it.

[thellama73]

Scotty and SVS, help me with Dragon today, and I promise to join you in lynching Quin tomorrow.

[Quin]

You're sketchy as hell, dude. Get used to it.

Then lynch me. You're saying a lot of shit and you're not doing anything about it.

[Sloonei]

With the Warden and DDL both camping on sig, definitely count me out of supporting that lynch.

Moved my vote to Boomslang because I'll do anything this prisoner tells me.

What do you think of DDL's responses in the recent exchange between he and I? How about Epi's perspective of DDL?

I prodded him myself and his response can be read as a simply deflection of the question. I was hoping for specifics, but he gave a very general answer and then went off in frustration.

Who or what changed your mind in those couple of minutes?

Understanding of what was going on. The people who were arguing with me warmed me up to the idea.

That's another reason I'm skeptical about CFDs. The premise is that players who are bad tend to react badly to it. Well, I'll go ahead and say that everybody who has never heard of them before has a good chance of reacting badly to it. So it might work on a heavily method-based community like RYM where people use those things on a regular basis, but here those things scare people off.

I saw a flash counter-wagon happening and my first reaction was to yell at people to stop.

Economics is the only other game I've ever played with DDL, so I can't really say I know what his usual habits are, but this isn't a great look.

[Silverwolf]

Why on Earth are people voting for Dragon?

[Prisoner 509378]

I also think, based on my time playing with DDL and his own testimony, that DDL as a townie feeds on pressure. He invites it, he encourages it. That's his very strategy, or at least a significant portion of it. I struggle to see his town response to this pressure being "screw it, lynch me then". I can believe he is genuinely frustrated, but it doesn't have to be about his alignment. Losing a team mate to a late CFD would be frustrating, and then being threatened by a surprise prisoner and a huge Epi ISO after having been safe at zero votes would be frustrating.

[Sloonei]

Sloonei: general Quin question. Given the significant effort he has provided, are you given any pause about suspecting him merely on that basis? I know it's shaky ground to stand on for anyone, but it's a start that I'm often willing to fall back to when in doubt. I don't know Quin like you do though.

I don't think Quin would shy away from the chance at playing as scum in a game like this, but his composure in the face of criticism is definitely the thing that has been giving me the most pause all game long. If he is bad, and I am still leaning toward that being the case, he's done an excellent job at recovering from what I see as his slip ups.

[ika]

DDL is town where are people getting off on this?

[S~V~S]

You're sketchy as hell, dude. Get used to it.

Then lynch me. You're saying a lot of shit and you're not doing anything about it.

I have been voting you and talking to and about you. I will probably vote for you again today. But I am considering a vote for sig since now suddenly discussion of LC being a seemer is topped off by sig saying he won't *flip* bad. I am thinking lets just get that role out of play.

What do you think of the LC=Seemer theory?