[END] Turf Wars: Battle of the Hosts

[ika]

You asked me if I was town or not and I answered. You even defended doing that. So why didn't you answer when I asked if you were scum or not?

Cus i thought it was self implied that you knew the answer to it too

How would I know that answer to that?

Now, look at this post again. Is this a town post you would make?

I swear, we could absolutely know ika's alignment right now if SW would just take a hard 100% stance. It'd be plain as day. Come on, let's stop farking around and do it.

I'm 100% certain he's scum.

Those wanting me to vote him-all good things come to those who wait.

Im disappointed in you silver, i thought you knew me better than that. No im not scum and if you are 100% convinced of it im am greatly saddened that you are 100% convinced of this. I expected better then this form you.....

This myslynch is going to be 100% on you

pedit: yes she is wrong

No, town me would not make that kind of post. I am town so looking back and realizing how manipulative it is, i am sorry. I didn't realize how manipulative it looked at first. This kind of post is something i would never make towards you town/scum/3rd party. I didn't realize how bad it was and reading it again is really making me feel guilty that i made this kind of post.

[ika]

to the first part iirc, you didnt answer me directly so i did the same. if i am wrong my bad

[Silverwolf]

to the first part iirc, you didnt answer me directly so i did the same. if i am wrong my bad

I answered.

@ika

If you said anything before you were called out on it, whether you voted first or after, I wouldn't mind as much, but this way it looks like that's just the excuse you came up with for that vote. Get where I'm coming from?

Yes and all I can say is that it's a NAI thing. Any game me and silver play my first vote will always be going to her and most if not all my posts will be addressed at her till I sort her.

If you still think the same then I don't got much else to say.

I'm still mobile so I might be around tonight

ika-the best way for you to sort me is to interact with me or ask me questions. Voting me and saying you want to sort me just looks like busy work. I know you think I had questions about the setup but I think I've got them all answered now. Do you have a read on anyone else based on what's been posted so far?

Not 100% i have been busy as you know so i have not had time to read proper and might not for day 1. I do have to ask then, are you town? I also wanted to ask if you had any reads. i like to use them as anchor points form you espicaly cus i know i can trust you if you are town

Yes, I am but I'm wondering what other answer you expect me to give to this question? I am gonna have a tough time getting reads for now. This is my first game here and first game with all these nice people. So I'm gonna have to just follow and see what catches my eye. I might be slower to develop reads at first.

So far I see a lot of setup spec, particularly what should be done about the traitor role and voting in a way to protect the Dons. I guess I can see merit in everyone voting everyone if we can get enough people here to go along with it. But I'd prefer just to try to police hunt right now. I'm also not following all that close so need to go catch up.

I think I'm gonna have to go through and take some notes. I have no clue who to vote for right now either.

[Silverwolf]

You asked me if I was town or not and I answered. You even defended doing that. So why didn't you answer when I asked if you were scum or not?

Cus i thought it was self implied that you knew the answer to it too

How would I know that answer to that?

Now, look at this post again. Is this a town post you would make?

I swear, we could absolutely know ika's alignment right now if SW would just take a hard 100% stance. It'd be plain as day. Come on, let's stop farking around and do it.

I'm 100% certain he's scum.

Those wanting me to vote him-all good things come to those who wait.

Im disappointed in you silver, i thought you knew me better than that. No im not scum and if you are 100% convinced of it im am greatly saddened that you are 100% convinced of this. I expected better then this form you.....

This myslynch is going to be 100% on you

pedit: yes she is wrong

No, town me would not make that kind of post. I am town so looking back and realizing how manipulative it is, i am sorry. I didn't realize how manipulative it looked at first. This kind of post is something i would never make towards you town/scum/3rd party. I didn't realize how bad it was and reading it again is really making me feel guilty that i made this kind of post.

ika

[ika]

snip

oh so you did.....

well im logging of i feel like shit for that post i made wehn i reread it and im not really in a mood to play or post anymore

[Prisoner 509378]

ika

You think he's manipulating you again in a post in which he apologizes profusely for making a post that could have been manipulative?

[thellama73]

Tonight's just been an emotional whirlwind for Silverwolf, huh?

[Prisoner 509378]

Tonight's just been an emotional whirlwind for Silverwolf, huh?

Make your next post a good one. Numbers.

[Silverwolf]

ika

You think he's manipulating you again in a post in which he apologizes profusely for making a post that could have been manipulative?

Yes, He is being manipulative despite the fact he is being eaten up by guilt over it.

I need some sleep.

[sig]

ika

You think he's manipulating you again in a post in which he apologizes profusely for making a post that could have been manipulative?

Yes, He is being manipulative despite the fact he is being eaten up by guilt over it.

I need some sleep.

ika I already thought this was true, however Silver confirming it cements my idea. So since Ika wants my vote I'll give it to him.

[Sloonei]

@ Quin, I'm glad you're reading me as town now, or that you at least say you're reading me as town. You listed Black Rock, ika, Serge, and Nerolunar as scum in the GTH exercise. I'd like to hear more on those 4 names. If you had to rank them from most to least suspicious, how would that look?

Also why is Scotty listed as Town if you're voting for him right now?

I listed Scotty as town? That was most definitely a mistake.

To answer the question, though,

Scotty, Nero, ika, Black Rock, Serge.

Could you explain any or all of these suspicions? I am most interested in Scotty. All I can recall you mentioning is his Day 1 vote for Tranq. What else has you feeling so confident about him?

[Sloonei]

I'm all caught up and I have a question: What?

[Quin]

@ Quin, I'm glad you're reading me as town now, or that you at least say you're reading me as town. You listed Black Rock, ika, Serge, and Nerolunar as scum in the GTH exercise. I'd like to hear more on those 4 names. If you had to rank them from most to least suspicious, how would that look?

Also why is Scotty listed as Town if you're voting for him right now?

I listed Scotty as town? That was most definitely a mistake.

To answer the question, though,

Scotty, Nero, ika, Black Rock, Serge.

Could you explain any or all of these suspicions? I am most interested in Scotty. All I can recall you mentioning is his Day 1 vote for Tranq. What else has you feeling so confident about him?

Inactive players and other major suspicions aside, Scotty is the only player I have yet to feel good about in any way. I have said many things about ika over the past two weeks. There is nothing left to say.

As for the rest, no. I'm getting tired of answering questions. At this point you can either trust me or lynch me, because cooperating is getting me nowhere.

[Sloonei]

@ Quin, I'm glad you're reading me as town now, or that you at least say you're reading me as town. You listed Black Rock, ika, Serge, and Nerolunar as scum in the GTH exercise. I'd like to hear more on those 4 names. If you had to rank them from most to least suspicious, how would that look?

Also why is Scotty listed as Town if you're voting for him right now?

I listed Scotty as town? That was most definitely a mistake.

To answer the question, though,

Scotty, Nero, ika, Black Rock, Serge.

Could you explain any or all of these suspicions? I am most interested in Scotty. All I can recall you mentioning is his Day 1 vote for Tranq. What else has you feeling so confident about him?

Inactive players and other major suspicions aside, Scotty is the only player I have yet to feel good about in any way. I have said many things about ika over the past two weeks. There is nothing left to say.

As for the rest, no. I'm getting tired of answering questions. At this point you can either trust me or lynch me, because cooperating is getting me nowhere.

But why do you feel confident about Scotty?

[Quin]

Because he is bad.

[Sloonei]

Because he is bad.

Which posts of his indicate badness?

[Quin]

All of them.

[Sloonei]

I choose to lynch you. Quin. ...

[Quin]

Please do.

[Sloonei]

You could try to convince me to move my vote.

[Quin]

You could try to convince me to move my vote.

I have tried to do that for a week and a half now. I'll humor you one last time.

Lynch ika today. Not Scotty. If ika flips bad, then we'll talk about him. There is no dispute that I have been keen to lynch ika ever since the game began. Consider how Silver claims he would not hesitate to bus a teammate, and that it is entirely possible and likely that ika used an extra vote to lynch Fuzz. He would have taken advantage of the fact that nobody was sure whether they misunderstood him or not to make it this far. Consider the way he's defended himself in his most recent arguments. He's scaring away scum hunters by tugging at heartstrings and making people feel bad about targeting him. That's what I think. Consider his trust to simply vote for whoever Silver voted for, completely isolating himself from the obligation to form his own opinions. Consider his tight-lippedness earlier on in the game, alongside his decision to completely ignore the traitor scenario and control method Wilgy came up with to pursue his relatively pointless OT with Silver on Day 1. To wrap it all up, he's flipflopping on pretty much everybody's rainbow lists, and not for no reason.

If he's bad, you should be able to clear me. You said yourself that there's no way I would bus a teammate. I genuinely think ika is scum.

[indiglo]

Okay, here's a chart of the results from the GTH exercise:

This chart suggests Boomslang, ika, Draconus, Nerolunar, and Serge are our top priorities today. I suppose that matches the discussions that have been going on in here. I'm surprised at the low totals on Quin and sig. Quin because he's definitely bad (my vote would have made it 3 for him, at least) and sig because he's just been such a hot topic all game long. Serge is also a bit of a surprise, I didn't expect him to be such a big suspect.
I'd like to hear more from the people who labeled him with an M, myself included.
If any of the unanimous town picks are making me uneasy, it's still indiglo. I still have her as a town read, but I continue to be unable to shake a feeling in the back of my mind that she's just playing a very precise scum game. She's been in the thread to hammer home a lot of points, but is seldom one of the players stirring the pot.

I am completely exhausted and brain dead, but can I stay out of this thread? No.

So I am not in full catch up mode, but I did see this and want to reply. (I am at least 10 pages back from current page, but am going to go ahead and reply anyway.)

I appreciate the compliment about the precise scum game. I am not doing that, but of course you can't know until you know my role and all that. I am also used to occasionally taking some heat while on my civ game, for a variety of reasons.

Sometimes (like R&B) because I think about the game when I'm not online, and sometimes have flashes of ideas I will stew on before I come back online. Then I'll post my idea without always explaining it that much (like, I just start posting mid-sentence, or mid-thought if that makes sense), and someone will jump on it for being a total u-turn, or making an outlandish statement without having mentioned it in the thread prior.

Sometimes it's because I have posted in a stream of consciousness style, which means I will post conflicting thoughts in the same post, because I'm thinking and reasoning (or trying to, lol) as I type.

Lots of other reasons, but the brain is tired. So I in no way take offense or umbrage to your statement. Plus, I understand paranoia is rampant, I am suffering from it myself. And I too feel like I have been in ketchup mode quite often this game. One reason, I think, is that after being away for a couple years, most of the players on the site and in this game are new to me. So I don't know their playstyles, or anything about them. In that sense, once I had a touchstone or two that I really felt were civ, I felt like looking in the direction they were looking to see if I agreed. Best strategy? I don't know.

However, if there is anything you feel like you need to ask, or hear, or see, please mention it (and apologies if you already have and I haven't gotten that far yet). If it's just a minor paranoia feeling I can live with that. But if it's going to impact your scum hunting in this game, I would love to clear it up. I know you won't know I'm town (or, mafia actually) until my role is revealed (and who knows if we are the same family even), but if I can help in any way prior to that - to aid with game progression - that would be my first wish.

This may very well be as coherent as I'm gonig to be tonight, so I may just read a bit more without doing much more posting until I can rightly get caught up to present.


Prisoner, thanks much for that work! I found the chart to be quite interesting! I will say (and I should have said this when we were doing the reads) that 2 of the ones I fought over most were Sig and Epi. There were others too, mainly Quin (because I just don't want him to be scum - but wishes don't mean a lot, he rolled what he rolled in the role department), Serge, Scotty (though I'm thinking that he is seeming less scummy).

I am also growing a bit more concerned about SW. She was so upset yesterday that no one was following her on ika... and now it's like she's totally dropped that. I don't know, she's seeming a touch flippy floppy as the game continues. Which definitely can have civ explanations, but I will admit to it making me uncomfortable.

Ok, now that really may be all I have for now. I've got mafia on my brain and a touch less than 50% brain power. Tomorrow I am going to hope to get caught up and be able to make a rational decision.

[Quin]

Really, if you're still intent on lynching me after that I haven't got a single thing to say and I look forward to you being disappointed.

[indiglo]

Spoiler: show

So indi uses a lot and I mean a lot of faces. Especially this one.

She goes after Matt 1.0 and votes for him. I see a good amount of early defense for Ika it isn't overbearing, but it is present in a good number of her posts. Not nearly as muchif any defense of Gleam, however she also doesn't attack gleam. This is something to keep in mind if one flips scum.

Matt is either playing from a high tightrope or is town. The risk/reward for his actions feels like high/medium if he's scum.
Sloonei is my strongest townread, as his posts have consistently made logical sense and he's avoided tunnelling on one player or interaction. It feels like he's trying to solve the game, and that's good.
You look town-y to me, for similar reasons to Sloonei. The difference is your tone reads as a little early to reach a conclusion, like you're content with finding enough facts to reach a conclusion at all, not necessarily the correct one.

Spirityo still has said next to nothing and we're a few hours out from Day 2 ending. His four posts consist of the following. A "linki - that's a good idea", one "I agree with Sloonei about the cultural differences between RYM & Syndicate", a greeting to everyone, and an apology for missing the vote. Absolutely zero content whatsoever.
Enrique I don't like because of his refusal to explain his vote on Day 1. That entire situation read as if he was nervous, if that makes sense, like he didn't have a reason at the time of his vote but decided he needed one.

I refuse to touch the Silverwolf/ika thing with a 39 & 1/2 foot pole. There's some logic to be found in interactions regarding them, but so much emotion that I'd probably end up stepping on someone's toes and they'd get mad at me for their decision to wear sandals.

My vote's going to be used to prevent a tie today. I'm indifferent as to where specifically it goes.

Turnip the reason you should vote for me is so you stop twiddling your thumbs about who to vote for.

Llama can you elaborate on your conclusion that Luffy's posts scream "cop?"

Oh yes, thank you for reminding me I wanted to look over Enrique's posts!

Some interaction with Fuzz here.

Switching to Fuzz for the time being.

I would definitely like to hear from him / her before EoD if possible.

I did recently get mislynched in a CFD in Rocky & Bullwinkle, and it sucked. I prefer people to be able to defend against votes, but I also prefer not to be forced to vote for someone I don't want to vote for in order for my vote to mean something.


Linki up the wazoo here too! Weeeeee!

An early vote for fuzz after some Ika/Silver defense.

To me, it's not so much "opportunistic" as it is a fast flip w/absolutely NO explanation.

Fuzz, what is your motivation for suddenly flipping from not touching it with a 39 1/2 foot pole to voting exactly for that person?

This kind off seems like some Fuzz defense, but it is hard to tell. She did end the day with a vote for Fuzz and never really tried to switch the CFD.

A CFD that actually takes down a baddie is GOING to make baddies reveal themselves. They have to scramble like hell. It is only normal that some, even if they are good players, are going to reveal their hands in the chaos. That's the whole point of it.

That's the thing though...it makes the baddies reveal themselves if the target of the CFD is in fact a baddie. If it's not, the sudden pressure on them out of nowhere might make them appear as if they were a baddie because of how they might react to receiving so many votes out of nowhere. Given the result, I obviously don't have a problem with the lynch and though I'm still not a CFD fan I can't criticize how it played out this time, but I do think that the result it produced owed at least most of it to luck, and that there have got to be some baddies on that wagon.

Why? Especially since it appeared that ika had the most votes? If Fuzz had appeared to have the most votes, then I would definitely agree he had been heaved under the Greyhound. But, from the way it looked, it looked like ika had been lynched and he had been saved. Why would baddies do that?

I don't buy it.

Replying as I catch up...

This is where my head is at also SVS. The fact is that on the poll, ika came out with MORE votes than Fuzz... so it looked like Fuzz was safe. No need to bus a teammate that is safe.

I disagree here, this is basically saying nobody on the Fuzz wagon is scum I don't think that is the case.

Indi also did some soft pushes on Gleam after Fuzz was lynched drawing connections between them. I'm unsure how to feel about that.

Overall I don't see anything really suspicious one could question her interaction with Fuzz and then her push on Gleam, but that isn't super scummy. I do think if Ika flips mafia then she is also. If I want to get really tinfoily I'd say Indi, Ika, and Nero are three mafia members. I'm just lacking proof. Though it could be possibly.

I'll also do a quick read over of llama and Enrique before EOD. I'm leaning towards an Enrique/Bloom lynch today. However, due to his inactivity I'm torn on whether that would be a good lynch or not.

Ok, I saw this and wanted to reply to it too. I'm going to try to stop reading at the end of this page so I can remember where to pick up tomorrow.

Dude, I built the case on Gleam. That was no soft push my friend. I was more sure about him being scum than I was about Fuzz! I was wrong (duh), but just wanted to clarify that (if no one else has yet). It was not a soft push, it was a hard core case. I don't think I made it immediately after the Fuzz lynch, because at first I was not seeing anything suspicious on Gleam. But that definitely changed. (Again, sorry Gleam, and everyone.)

I also make a lot of faces IRL. Like, a really lot. I think most people enjoy them, but maybe they're just being polite?

[Sloonei]

Really, if you're still intent on lynching me after that I haven't got a single thing to say and I look forward to you being disappointed.

I admit that ika's entire play in this game has been one of the most befuddling things I've ever seen in a mafia game, but I'm not certan any of those things have to mean he's bad. Your behavior, and everyone else's for that matter, has been more typical of what i'm used to in mafia. It's more familiar and so I am more comfortable voting for it.

Do you have anything to say about Scotty? I am much more interested in your read on him than anything else. You are, to my memory, the only person to express and strong or consistent scum read on him in this game, and so far you've given us very little reason as to why. You have to admit that that is a curious thing worth asking about. If you're town and we're going to mislynch you, would it not be the most beneficial move for you to share as much of your thoughts as you can?

[Sloonei]

@ indi, thank yu for your response. At the moment there is nothing I nees you to address for my read on you. I think you are town, but I am one of the most cautious players you'll ever meet. I never throw anyone off the suspects pile for good unless the hosts tell me to. For whatever reason I keep coming back to you even though all your posts ooze towniness to me.

[Quin]

Really, if you're still intent on lynching me after that I haven't got a single thing to say and I look forward to you being disappointed.

I admit that ika's entire play in this game has been one of the most befuddling things I've ever seen in a mafia game, but I'm not certan any of those things have to mean he's bad. Your behavior, and everyone else's for that matter, has been more typical of what i'm used to in mafia. It's more familiar and so I am more comfortable voting for it.

Do you have anything to say about Scotty? I am much more interested in your read on him than anything else. You are, to my memory, the only person to express and strong or consistent scum read on him in this game, and so far you've given us very little reason as to why. You have to admit that that is a curious thing worth asking about. If you're town and we're going to mislynch you, would it not be the most beneficial move for you to share as much of your thoughts as you can?

I have said everything I thought about Scotty and he is still my most significant scum-read. As I said, trust me or lynch me, and you've made your decision.

[indiglo]

@ indi, thank yu for your response. At the moment there is nothing I nees you to address for my read on you. I think you are town, but I am one of the most cautious players you'll ever meet. I never throw anyone off the suspects pile for good unless the hosts tell me to. For whatever reason I keep coming back to you even though all your posts ooze towniness to me.

I will have to get that looked at!

Also, PS - I did not stop reading the thread yet. Shhhhhh, don't tell anyone. I feel like I've gotten a second wind, plus some of these pages have been extremely entertaining!

[indiglo]

Silver can read me accurately.

Do you ever plan to change that? If you're bad, don't you ever want to win? Or is the ultimate success being read correctly by your girlfriend?

You sound like the Lone Ranger.

This whole thing reminded me of a funny story Dex reminded me of the other day. Quite some time ago, we were both playing a game (I think on HV, but can't remember the game). We both started the game as civs (with no BTSC). I got recruited to the scum team at some point during the game. It was so obvious to him, but he never said anything about it in the thread because he felt bad for me. He only told me after I was dead in the game. He knew the exact day. (Sig's favorite smiley! )

Maybe that's only funny to me because it was me, and I am currently punchy.

[indiglo]

ika-How can you say you are gonna flip town but also say my scumread on you is correct?

I dont think i have ever said your read was right or wrong, are you 100% sure on it?

pedit: yes it does, it alwasy will too

So you aren't a baddie unless she says you are,even if the host sends you a role that says "BADDIE"?

I feel like I'm trapped in an Abbott and Costello bit.

[indiglo]

Seriously, anyone else think I'm off-base? Tell me all about it.

I came in well after the fact, and read it the same way you do. (My new Golden. ) Could be wrong, sure, but that's how I read it.

Also, I just realized how many posts in a row this is going to be from me and I am so sorry. I will keep this reply open and put any furthers ones in here.

Spoiler: show

You asked me if I was town or not and I answered. You even defended doing that. So why didn't you answer when I asked if you were scum or not?

Cus i thought it was self implied that you knew the answer to it too

How would I know that answer to that?

Now, look at this post again. Is this a town post you would make?

I swear, we could absolutely know ika's alignment right now if SW would just take a hard 100% stance. It'd be plain as day. Come on, let's stop farking around and do it.

I'm 100% certain he's scum.

Those wanting me to vote him-all good things come to those who wait.

Im disappointed in you silver, i thought you knew me better than that. No im not scum and if you are 100% convinced of it im am greatly saddened that you are 100% convinced of this. I expected better then this form you.....

This myslynch is going to be 100% on you

pedit: yes she is wrong

No, town me would not make that kind of post. I am town so looking back and realizing how manipulative it is, i am sorry. I didn't realize how manipulative it looked at first. This kind of post is something i would never make towards you town/scum/3rd party. I didn't realize how bad it was and reading it again is really making me feel guilty that i made this kind of post.

ika

lol wut??





Well, that was... unique. Also, that wasn't as many multiple posts from me as I imagined. I'll be back. Tomorrow. My 2nd wind done blew out.

[Scotty]

So that catchup was about as enjoyable as a Laverne and Shirley marathon. Hint: I'd rather slip on black ice.

ive been battling a bad cold and to make matters worse I think I'm battling a bone spur in my ankle. Which would suck. Bussing [my cop-mates] farther west tomorrow to another little city in Wyoming and trying to stay alive. 5 people in the cast have the flu and it's getting worse. I just want a day off to rest, dammit.

Before I drift off to sleep, Here's what I'm going to mull over:
I think Quin is bad. His demanding of Cred if and when ika is lynched and flips bad is smelly as shit. I don't recall ika being your main suspect for a while, Quin, unless my memory is failing me (I'll look it up later, right now too tired). Quin says that Sloonei has vouched that He isn't the type of scum player to bus someone.

Im not usually the type to pick egregious upsets in my March Madness bracket. Doesn't mean I didn't do that this year.

Could it be that I have just read Quin wrong, and we are both civs? Doubtful, but possible. I was wrong about Michigan State advancing past the first round, and I mean who saw that coming, eh?
------
I think one of chain and Nero is bad. I don't see both being civs. And Nero's desire to lynch sig again just because we've been putting it off long enough makes me wary. Chaindeath is a case of not justifying his suspicions because they're just in his head. I haven't picked apart his recent comments yet, so the jury's still out.
------
I totally forgot TH was playing this game. What happened to him?
------
Ika could very well be bad. I'm completely confused as to what happened in the exchange over the past 10 pages but I feel like I just rewatched The Grey starring Liam Neeson. I feel like something happened, and wolves came out for their thanksgiving feast, and yet I wasn't a fan of the ending.
------
Kansas better win it all if I want any shot of winning the money pool in March Madness.


K,
My headache is getting stronger. God speed, hope to be alive and kicking tomorrow.

Lynch Quin.

lynch me then

He's practically begging us.

[Nerolunar]

I don't understand this. Silverwolf says you're bad, and I question her ability to read you, and you come at me?

Your not ment to understand, your ment to eat rope.

When anyone discredit her ability to read em i will retaliate no matter what. she knows me better then i probally knwo myself so yes i am goign to go at you

You´re meant to eat rope. Good god the shade.

I don't want to vote ika, as easy as he's making it. My convictions stand. He would have to put borrowed votes on Fuzz Day 2. I just don't get that as a strategy.

Well, Ika has said that he is not afraid to bus if he has to.

I highly doubt you're right about him. Sw went from saying she was certain he was scum to him being town in one post. That by itself is scummy, if Ika isn't mafia on his own then both are since they are either acting way to orchestrated or one is scum tricking the other. Ika's post reeks of mafia manipulative behavior. But meh he was never my top guy. I'd like to lynch Nero I gave my thoughts on him before he seems to be playing his same scum game as before. Joining wagons or just tunneling on one member. Contradicting himself and going back and forth on lynches.

1) Im tired of voting for people who are not likely to get lynched. I am never around at EoD, so I need to make sure that my vote is put to use. I feel no shame in being flipfloppy as long as the votes are well reasoned. I find myself to be easy to convince by those who I believe to be town, so when I see someone has a good point in the thread Im not afraid to follow it. I mean we are trying to catch baddies here, so Im voting for someone who I think is bad. However, now I also need to ensure that there is a chance of it being a wagon because votes are valuable.

[Spacedaisy]

sorry I have been so inactive today. It was my final day of work before a week of vacation and my schedule has been weird. what I really wanted to say was I am so glad for everyone who has chosen to play our game, truly you all have made this game a pleasure to host so far. Normally by this point in the game someone would have pissed me off by getting on my last nerve, and that has not happened. I love you guys!

[Prisoner 509378]

ika

You think he's manipulating you again in a post in which he apologizes profusely for making a post that could have been manipulative?

Yes, He is being manipulative despite the fact he is being eaten up by guilt over it.

I need some sleep.

I got the impression through that entire conversation that he is physically and mentally incapable of lying to your face, especially in a way that is emotionally critical ("I'm disappointed in you", "I thought you knew me better than this", etc...).

Do you believe, given what you know of ika and his behavior around/about you, that I am wrong about that?

[S~V~S]

@Indi, no worries re tons o'posts. When you catch up at odd hours, like bea does, it happens.

And I o the same thing, the other night I actually woke up as I was falling asleep becasue I had a thought on a game, the Arkham one

Something about all of that last night is nagging at me, I am not sure what it is. That whole thing was fairly illuminating last night, and I think it needs thinking on for me rather than commenting on at this point.

One thing I will say, though, is that I see that Silver has noticed ikas manipulative posts. From where I am sitting, I think most of his posts are fairly manipulative as it regards her. I found that one post that he is rolling on the ground apologizing for to be the LEAST manipulative, tbh. That fawning element was missing.

If he's bad, you should be able to clear me. You said yourself that there's no way I would bus a teammate. I genuinely think ika is scum.

I find this hard to believe. You may not WANT to bus a teammate, but it is not always your choice. You all decide together. If you mean you won't bus a teammate against their will, yeah, I don't so that either. Like, for instance, if Fuzz was my teammate, and he was getting a lot of sudden suspicion, I would not want to lynch him either, especially if he was fighting it. I have had teammates come into the chat and ask us not to bus them even when it would make us look bad.

My whole perspective on the Fuzz lynch would be very different if he had had the most votes.

Linki Happy AM 509378

I am off to work, have fun.

[S~V~S]

linki, the part I find hard to believe is the bussing part, to be clear. Not the who you suspect part.

[Prisoner 509378]

As I said, trust me or lynch me, and you've made your decision.

The current ratio in this game is 13 vs 5. That's not a nightmare with so much information available, but it is definitely not in town's favor either. Any mislynch from this point on will significantly decrease town's win-probability. So show me your fire, Quin. If you're town, then your lynch would be representative of a baddie team that has poisoned the thread against you. Imagine them sipping lemonade on a hot beach somewhere, watching this thread develop on their tablets between naps. That's what would be happening right now. Are you satisfied with that? Is that okay with you?

[Quin]

@Indi, no worries re tons o'posts. When you catch up at odd hours, like bea does, it happens.

And I o the same thing, the other night I actually woke up as I was falling asleep becasue I had a thought on a game, the Arkham one

Something about all of that last night is nagging at me, I am not sure what it is. That whole thing was fairly illuminating last night, and I think it needs thinking on for me rather than commenting on at this point.

One thing I will say, though, is that I see that Silver has noticed ikas manipulative posts. From where I am sitting, I think most of his posts are fairly manipulative as it regards her. I found that one post that he is rolling on the ground apologizing for to be the LEAST manipulative, tbh. That fawning element was missing.

If he's bad, you should be able to clear me. You said yourself that there's no way I would bus a teammate. I genuinely think ika is scum.

I find this hard to believe. You may not WANT to bus a teammate, but it is not always your choice. You all decide together. If you mean you won't bus a teammate against their will, yeah, I don't so that either. Like, for instance, if Fuzz was my teammate, and he was getting a lot of sudden suspicion, I would not want to lynch him either, especially if he was fighting it. I have had teammates come into the chat and ask us not to bus them even when it would make us look bad.

My whole perspective on the Fuzz lynch would be very different if he had had the most votes.

Linki Happy AM 509378

I am off to work, have fun.

That only makes sense assuming the person doing the bussing jumped on the teammate later on. I was the first to establish ika as a major lynch candidate. Yes, Sloonei voted him before I did, but he let that go straight away and I still pursued it. Making someone who otherwise would not be seen as suspicious into a major lynch candidate goes beyond bussing.

[Prisoner 509378]

Linki Happy AM 509378

Likewise.

Mind-melding with S~V~S on pretty much every point here.

[Prisoner 509378]

An alternative perspective of Black Rock:

Spoiler: show

I am mostly caught up. I'm going to put a vote om Turnip Head for now. I don't have a strong suspicion for anyone at the moment but I don't like a Turnip that's forgettable.

To be without strong suspicions on Day 1 is understandable, but this strikes me as a terribly easy vote -- and the reasoning is questionable. In games I've played with Turnip Head, his visibility has sometimes been low as a townie. Black Rock knows him better than I do, but it's an uninspired use of her final D1 vote.

Spoiler: show

I don't like this huge bandwagon on gleam, espacilly since nobody has ever actually explained their suspicion of him, or if they have I don't remember it.

I've got a slight mafia gut read on Wilgy.

Also I find it odd how quite Zebra/LC seem to be this game.

I agree with this. I am mostly caught up and I really don't understand how Gleam has so many votes so early in the day. I understand votes are changeable but with this level it's making a statement and I don't understand the case.

This was on Day 2. To this point Black Rock had not found her footing and her reads on people were either unstated or unclear. She stood in defense of gleam, the eventual town flip, based on reasoning that can only be guessed. This may have been a credit-grab prior to a projected D2 lynch of gleam (he was lynched later).

Spoiler: show

The point of that post was, I can barely tell you two apart. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

This was in reference to Silverwolf and ika. The observation is accurate -- they can be hard to distinguish at a glance because their avatars are so similar. However, I don't know what BR was implying with the highlighted text. The avatar similarity has no bearing on the roles they received in this Mafia game, so what's the point?

Spoiler: show

I really don't want to trudge through old games to find specific posts, but it's true.

There are multiple reasons I am not as aggressive as I was last year. In terms of time, I've been hosting for six months. I also have a new profitable hobby in fantasy NBA, which takes a great deal of time and research to stay profitable.

In terms of Mafia, though, I started trying to dial back as far back as Death Note, when I was almost certain FZ. was bad and would not relent in hunting her down. It was a terrible blow when I realized how much time and effort I wasted contributing to my own loss. That made me begin to reevaluate my approach.

One big thing for me recently was Lost Again, in which I couldn't imagine Bullzeye being bad and argued against his lynch. S~V~S successfully got him lynched and won us the game. If I had my way, we would have Lost. Again.

Another major reason I'll just mention, without going into it, is that our site is becoming too confrontational for some people, and I'm trying to make a conscious effort to avoid contributing to that. I know I'm not the only one.

If I get lynched because I'm not being aggressive, oh well.

I was wondering why you were getting votes then I read this post. Even with you saying you are trying to be less aggressive I still expect something else other then this.

At first this post by BR was something that I think influenced my prior baddie read on Epignosis. It looked to me like she was making an intuitive read that might have real grounding in her experience playing with him, because in my time playing with her she has been an intuitive type of player. However, I now question her motives for making this post, because she never offered any kind of follow-up to this. Her only read-relevant reference to Epignosis after that was this:

Spoiler: show

Epignosis had voted for me based on very little evidence(the steering of the thread) and that pinged me. He has exhibited civ behavior lately though, so Im neutral on him now.

Nerolunar

Am I exhibiting civilian behavior now?

This post does make me feel more comfortable with you.

She got back on his good side based on I don't know what. I don't know why Epi's vote for Nerolunar, or his FEB statement afterword, should make any significant difference to Black Rock in her read on him. I suspect she may have been throwing in subtle support to the anti-Epi climate of the thread with her prior gripe, and once it was dissipating she backed away. As a baddie, maintaining a hard stance against a town Epignosis is akin to poking a hornet's nest. Maybe BR aborted the mission.

Spoiler: show

I don't like that Epignosis has 3 votes. I don't like it one bit

Sloonei is supatowning, which means he's either one of our most valuable assets or an undercover cop Only time will tell I suppose. He defended his Nerolunar read really well, but I don't like that he's criticizing Epignosis for not agreeing with his read, as if Nero's civvieness is obvious.

I don't really know who I want to vote for. I'm not a fan of any of the major wagons but don't have strong baddie reads on anyone.

That's surprising. You usually have more going on by now.

Shade.

Spoiler: show

Wow, I missed a lot. His flip changes my opinion on TH. I will go back and read how this all came about.

At least she was willing to develop her anti-TH stance in the face of the Fuzz baddie flip. However, she did so immediately before she had even "gone back and read how this all came about". It's as though she knew what she had to do with her TH read before she actually investigated the course of the CFD, which would imply the development was calculated.

Spoiler: show

Also I would say it is also blatantly obvious why Matt has completely changed his view on me.

He's a cop?

You are no fun.

Are you a cop? I hear cops are no fun.

Spoiler: show

Black Rock do you have any thoughts on Scotty?

No.

He's less of a force this game but I don't know if he'd act like that as a baddie. I feel the same way about you.

I guess that was thoughts.

Scotty gets a pass, TH doesn't. She feels the same way about both.

Spoiler: show

I just did a read of Quin.

He's a cop.

Hey Quin, what is your opinion of sig? Straight up.

I was just thinking the same thing. Some of his posts are pinging me quite a bit.

Okay.

Spoiler: show

Long Con is bad y'all

No, but I am getting pretty sure about you TH.

LC is playing a pretty civ game and you should know that.

Why should TH know that LC is playing a "pretty civ game"?

---------------

She's been gliding UTR and I think deserves more scrutiny. More suspicious to me than before.

[Silverwolf]

ika

You think he's manipulating you again in a post in which he apologizes profusely for making a post that could have been manipulative?

Yes, He is being manipulative despite the fact he is being eaten up by guilt over it.

I need some sleep.

I got the impression through that entire conversation that he is physically and mentally incapable of lying to your face, especially in a way that is emotionally critical ("I'm disappointed in you", "I thought you knew me better than this", etc...).

Do you believe, given what you know of ika and his behavior around/about you, that I am wrong about that?

I believe he did it and I believe the apology post was him feeling guilty for it. I think the apology post was sincere. I believe the one where he said he's disappointed in me was not.

I have to leave for the day and will be back later this afternoon.

[Prisoner 509378]

I think the apology post was sincere. I believe the one where he said he's disappointed in me was not.

That's what I mean. In that apology post he claimed to be a townie, and accompanied that claim with a heartfelt apology that you believe to be sincere. Is he apologizing for something and then doing that something again in the same breath?

[Prisoner 509378]

"I'm sorry for spilling your last beer" *as I tip over your next beer on purpose*

[Silverwolf]

I think the apology post was sincere. I believe the one where he said he's disappointed in me was not.

That's what I mean. In that apology post he claimed to be a townie, and accompanied that claim with a heartfelt apology that you believe to be sincere. Is he apologizing for something and then doing that something again in the same breath?

No, I think the apology post was very sincere. I believe he was feeling guilty. I took it as outside of his alignment. But it highlighted the fact that he knew the other post was manipulative. That's why I voted for him.

It's tough to play this game sometimes with people you care about. ika especially so as he is very sensitive to my emotions, he knew if I found out post game he was doing that post as scum, I'd be disappointed in him, and he couldn't deal with it. That's why I asked him if he'd make a post like that as town.

I think he'd apologize either way. I know this is confusing. But I'm taking ika's behavior all game into account when I made my vote.

[Prisoner 509378]

I was built in a laboratory, I don't understand emotions at all.

[Prisoner 509378]

I don't think ika is bad. He might be the most confusing enigma I've ever encountered in a Mafia game, but I'll stick with my gut today barring a convincing sell that I read that whole exchange like a dope.

I want Quin to inspire me.

[Quin]

I don't think ika is bad. He might be the most confusing enigma I've ever encountered in a Mafia game, but I'll stick with my gut today barring a convincing sell that I read that whole exchange like a dope.

I want Quin to inspire me.

Should I paint you a pretty picture?

[Prisoner 509378]

I don't think ika is bad. He might be the most confusing enigma I've ever encountered in a Mafia game, but I'll stick with my gut today barring a convincing sell that I read that whole exchange like a dope.

I want Quin to inspire me.

Should I paint you a pretty picture?

You seem a bit resigned. After putting forth an admirable effort as you have, in a game which town is currently losing, that is not a great look. Now is when the intensity level should be revving up before it's too late.

[Quin]

I don't think ika is bad. He might be the most confusing enigma I've ever encountered in a Mafia game, but I'll stick with my gut today barring a convincing sell that I read that whole exchange like a dope.

I want Quin to inspire me.

Should I paint you a pretty picture?

You seem a bit resigned. After putting forth an admirable effort as you have, in a game which town is currently losing, that is not a great look. Now is when the intensity level should be revving up before it's too late.

I have been interrogated for the past week and a half and with each answer more and more people are scum reading me, which is the opposite of what should be happening. I feel like all credibility to anything I have to say has gone down the drain, which is pretty sad since I have good faith in my own intuition, and I've not held back on backing up everything I've thought. Forgive me for not being so interested anymore.