[END] Turf Wars: Battle of the Hosts

[Turnip Head]

Because sig and Quin were getting heat for their ika votes at EoD2 and LC wasn't commenting at all on that, being an ika voter himself. That looked fishy to me. Maybe that doesn't make sense to you. It made sense to me.

[Prisoner 509378]

Okay. We've had a good chat so I'll let others observe and report.

[Prisoner 509378]

others observe and report.

Pretty please, if you will.

[Sloonei]

Doing my homework on chaindeath.

Chaindeath walks into the forum after listing from afar, half torn between his loved ones and his need to participate. He is not entirely sure who is a good candidate to vote for, however he is sure that the voting for everyone strategy is not a good way to go. Based on his gut feeling, he respectfully votes for Long Con as the one who feels off. No hate, no animosity, just business babe

He was home with his family this weekend which is why he haven't posted, just trying to keep up on the posts quite hard when his family is being loving and fun and junk . He should be more active as time progresses provided that his schooling doesn't overwhelm and completely pull him under in a tide of work.

This first post and vote for Long Con strike me as very weak. The non-OT sentence strikes me as a soft distancing stance, he might as well have said "do not come after me about this vote. It means nothing." Plus it is stated in the most vague terms possible in a mafia game ("gut" and "feels off"). So yes, I guess the vote does mean nothing.

Chaindeath has finished reading all of the posts to this point, in the stead of lunch might he add. He would like to acknowledge that he is flattered that thellama would not vote to lynch chaindeath. However, He wishes to let his suspicions be known of Matt and Silverwolf. Matt is acting oddly, and chaindeath is not put at ease with any of Matt's posts. Silverwolf seems fishy as well (odd since shes a wolf and all) he is not comfortable with the snap votes as soon as the polls opened.

Also Chaindeath would like to start a discussion about the hosts night powers. Perhaps the flower of the cosmos was able to redirect the night arrest away from the intended target, especially since in the day before she lost quite a bit from her family. He proposes that she is trying to keep her family at a size that would allow for a fighting chance. In the same mannor,he took the cup, that He thinks that the foot-covering used his power to radically harm the her family. He requests your thoughts.

I am not clear on what he means by Silverwolf's "snap votes", but if he's referring to Silver voting early in the polls that seems like an arbitrary target and an arbitrary reason to suspect the target. If Silver was voting early and/or often in the polls, she was far from alone in doing so, but chaindeath is apparently pulling her out of the mix to throw shade on her for that.

Also worth noting that the second paragraph of this post is the most substantial thought process chaindeath had shared to this point or for a while after, and all it is is relatively unfounded speculation about a game mechanic. Not a good look.

That was quite a ride. chaindeath is glad that a member of the Police is dead especially when they are of such a powerful role as Surveillance Specialist. Though thinking on this he recalls that there is also an undercover cop running around who could have been the one who was lynched and chose to be seen in that role to save his specialist some heat. He still feels that DDL is acting funky. He hasn't gone through all of the other pages he needs to read because he is tuckered out from trying to catch up on 10+ pages in two hours and not being a terribly fast reader. Sleep well other people of the town. See you all, hopefully, after night 2!

This post is both fluff and nonsense. All chaindeath accomplishes is the suggestion that it's possible Fuzz was a cop with a different role than the one that was revealed, a strategy that would make 0 sense in any game ever. The suggestion itself, even if it were viable, is not something that would contribute much to the discussion anyway, so I don't get why this was a thought he wanted to share.

A peculiar vote in the poll: chaindeath (26) for Dragon D. Luffy. Chain was here, and clearly formed an opinion on a player who was in the thick of things during the CFD and put a vote on him, but he didn't say anything or get involved himself in the Fire Drill. Does he care to explain, chaindeath?

Chaindeath will gladly explain his position, he was on page 38 when he posted his vote. He feels that a vote should be formed based on what a player, himself included, feels at the moment of voting. He also would like to mention that he stated that he was behind on reading and the "Chinese fire drill" voting started later.

Matt is probably my dark horse lynch option, if we're all gonna start throwing names into the Chinese Fire Drill pool.

Linki: I see we have started doing that! And Matt has other takers.

This was is on page 40. He was speed reading after he finished the post and voted but was unable to justify jumping into this "fire drill". Also as another point, he was totally unsure why others were voting for fuzz for most of the time he was reading up on the forum, though it is now evident.

Hope this clears it up for you.

Sloonei for the longest time chaindeath thought that your picture was a stack of pancakes with raspberries piled high on it.

chaindeath explains his reason for not participating in the Day 2 lynch, stating that he was "unable to justify" jumping into the fire drill. I'm not sure if that just means he could not justify voting for Fuzz, or if "the fire drill" refers to all the lynch candidates from that day (DDL was not among them). Whatever it is, chaindeath expressed, at least vaguely, a suspicion against ika in this post, but opted instead to vote for Dragon D. Luffy. His justification for voting Luffy ended up being an apology for not taking part in the lynch. He never really states a reason why he suspected Luffy, but he did express a bit of suspicion for ika earlier, but failed to act on it.

It makes sense to review his entire vote history here, so let's do that:
Day 1: Long Con (only voter)
Day 2: Dragon D. Luffy (1 of 2, avoided main lynch targets)
Day 3: Nerolunar (3 of 4) (#16 overall. At this time it appears Nero would have been relatively close to LC and sig in the poll)
Day 4: No vote
Day 5: Matt 2.0 (only voter, the day DDL was lynched)
Day 6: ika (6 of 8)

That's about as bad as a vote history is gonna look.

This post covers multiple points, but the one I am most interested in is his response to me. I prompted him to explain his top suspects at the time (DDL and Silverwolf) but instead of giving reasons he shrugged and said that he's new. I can buy that chaindeath hasn't played the most games of anyone here and that's fair, but it's not a strong response at all.

Chaindeath just wanted to make sure that Nero was aware of it because He thinks the police don't have a role that would do something like that. Also he welcomes back Matt

Im a little pinged by you. You only show up to defend yourself, and I don´t see any desire to solve the game.

Who do you read as town/scum?

He wouldn't say he has no desire in solving the game, more so that he is unsure as he mentioned in his previous post. Currently he is reading Ika as town. Maybe sloonie, indiglo as town also. He is unsure but Sig and DDL still make him uncomfortable in the baddie sort of way. He would like to see zebra, Black Rock, serge, and llama post a bit more so he could get a read on the outliers.

Suddenly sig is a top suspect as well. I don't remember seeing any mention of that prior. He also gives a long list of quiet players who he'd like to hear more from. Still not much in the way of strong reads.

A blatant OMGUS against Nerolunar, and a return to the defensiveness that chaindeath just can't seem to get out of.

Nothing in his response to Scotty's ISO inspires much confidence in me, and over the last few days he has stuck closely to his Nerolunar suspicion and nothing else. I would like for chaindeath to share more reads when he can, and also explain some of his votes.

He is this color on my rainbow.

[S~V~S]

Of this group

Quin (8), Silverwolf (9), sig (10), Soneji (12), Boomslang (15), chaindeath (18), Black Rock (19), Turnip Head (20)

This is who I think is probably bad:

Quin
sig
Boomrique
chaindeath
Turnip Head.

Of these, I feel that Turnip head is the most dangerous.

So my best order would be (in order of perceived threat based on participation, persuasiveness, etc):

TH
Quin
sig
Boomrique
chaindeath

This might also be controversial, and I've been avoiding it because I don't feel like I want to attract her ire, but why is Silver considered civ again?

I've seen many players over the years who have shown this level of frustration when they feel their reads/contributions aren't being given the time of day (whether that's accurate or not). Nearly all of them have been town. I also think her current perspective of ika shows a healthy amount of town paranoia, and I don't think she'd have become quite so animated if she were attempting to pull wool over our eyes. Finding sincerity in her posts is perhaps the single easiest thing to do in this game.

Is there a reason you think she should be given more scrutiny?

Finding badness in her votes is the second easiest thing to do in this game. I had not realized just how bad until I started reading back on her more when she abandoned her suspish of ika in order to try to catch that evil guy Draconus (who was only on one of the civ wagons, DDLs), then came back to him, and started getting mad at us for not listening to her.

I am deeply conflicted on Silver. Rereading her today did not help. I am not taking frustration into account; people get frustrated whether civ or bad. Going back, the timeline was different that I thought it was. She posted about Fuzz' bad vote before TH brought up the CFD (and when it formed on Fuzz, he was pretty reluctant to go that way at first).

Based on that, I have problems seeing her as bad, just like based on that I had problems seeing ika as bad. But almost everything she has done since then sets offmy alarms, and I think I do pretty well at Mafia because I pay attention to my alarms. So maybe paranoia on my part. I still lean civ on her in a GTH scenario, but I waffle.

The fact that she & sig virtually simultaneously brought up the seemer issue concerned me.

When I am bad, when me & my team are talking about who we are going to kill, pretty much anyone who has given one of us the pass is off the table. And I have Silver the pass hard & often in the days following the Fuzzwagon. I can't hlp but wonder if that has anything to do with my still being alive.

[thellama73]

I'm pretty much in agreement with SVS's list apart from Chaindeath. Let's get lynching!

[S~V~S]

*Fixed*
Of this group

Quin (8), Silverwolf (9), sig (10), Soneji (12), Boomslang (15), chaindeath (18), Black Rock (19), Turnip Head (20)

This is who I think is probably bad:

Quin
sig
Boomrique
chaindeath
Turnip Head.

Of these, I feel that Turnip head is the most dangerous.

So my best order would be (in order of perceived threat based on participation, persuasiveness, etc):

TH
Quin
sig
Boomrique
chaindeath

This might also be controversial, and I've been avoiding it because I don't feel like I want to attract her ire, but why is Silver considered civ again?

I've seen many players over the years who have shown this level of frustration when they feel their reads/contributions aren't being given the time of day (whether that's accurate or not). Nearly all of them have been town. I also think her current perspective of ika shows a healthy amount of town paranoia, and I don't think she'd have become quite so animated if she were attempting to pull wool over our eyes. Finding sincerity in her posts is perhaps the single easiest thing to do in this game.

Is there a reason you think she should be given more scrutiny?

Finding badness in her votes is the second easiest thing to do in this game. I had not realized just how bad until I started reading back on her more when she abandoned her suspish of ika in order to try to catch that evil guy Draconus (who was only on one of the civ wagons, DDLs), then came back to him, and started getting mad at us for not listening to her.

I am deeply conflicted on Silver. Rereading her today did not help. I am not taking frustration into account; people get frustrated whether civ or bad. Going back, the timeline was different that I thought it was. She posted about Fuzz' bad vote before TH brought up the CFD (and when it formed on Fuzz, he was pretty reluctant to go that way at first).

Based on that, I have problems seeing her as bad, just like based on that I had problems seeing ika as bad. But almost everything she has done since then sets offmy alarms, and I think I do pretty well at Mafia because I pay attention to my alarms. So maybe paranoia on my part. I still lean civ on her in a GTH scenario, but I waffle.

The fact that she & sig virtually simultaneously brought up the seemer issue concerned me.

When I am bad, when me & my team are talking about who we are going to kill, pretty much anyone who has given one of us the pass is off the table. And I have Silver the pass hard & often in the days following the Fuzzwagon. I can't hlp but wonder if that has anything to do with my still being alive.

[indiglo]

After looking over the vote tallies, my top 3 are TH, sig and Quin. I just pulled the color coded copy back up to double check my memory, and that is correct. I am happy to do more reading on all 3 of these dudes to build cases, if necessary.

And I would not put SW out of the picture at this time. Though she is not my top suspect by any means, I am open to reevaluating that - maybe she is just a stubborn person, I am not sure because I don't know her. But she has given me pause recently too.

One reason why I pondered the idea of not being NKed yet is because I was barking up the very wrong tree with some of my suspicions, but I am waiting to hear back from SVS on this subject. So I am open to rethinking them, the biggest one I'm open to reconsidering is SW.


Linki~ posting, then reading

[Turnip Head]

lolol I'm not dangerous, though I'm clearly not helping. People have a hard time trusting me unless I'm on point, and I haven't been this game.

[indiglo]

Holy Hell, Bat Bear! I could kiss you woman!

Totally agree with your list. I am not 100% sold on Chaindeath, so leaving that till the end is perfect to me. At that time we could reassess and see where SW may fit in better.

TH
Quin
Sig

Same order I put them in.

[Prisoner 509378]

Sloonei, I'd really like to know your take on the discussion I just had with Turnip. I ask you specifically because I think you'd be the least proned to bias on that read.

[indiglo]

Sloonei, I'd really like to know your take on the discussion I just had with Turnip. I ask you specifically because I think you'd be the least proned to bias on that read.

I liked your discussion with TH recently. But that may be chalked up to confirmation bias. (As you mentioned... bias.)

[Sloonei]

Sloonei, I'd really like to know your take on the discussion I just had with Turnip. I ask you specifically because I think you'd be the least proned to bias on that read.

I'd need to look back at his casing of LC in full, but my immeidate reaction is that Turnip doesn't seem entirely convincing or comfortable answering your questions. His dismissal of your main point about his vote for ika yesterday is alarming. I don't think it's a difficult notion to grasp but he kind of dances around it a bit and never really gives a satisfactory response. For now it's making me feel worse about him, but I have a bit of digging to do before I can answer completely.

[indiglo]

Just referencing this post again to show voting patterns.

I'm also going to requote this post from SVS. I think looking at common denominators here is a really good idea. You keep seeing the same names come up over and over. I started working on this by posting voting records before the lynch was up, with the idea of looking at patterns, but it's much easier to do it this way. And patterns are easy to spot.

I'll even color code them (not with the intentions of rainbow-fying) just to make it easier to see the similarities.

We first went wrong when we let the Ika wagon dictate what happened on Day 2.

Day 2 ika wagon:

ika
9
Quin (5), Nerolunar (6), agleaminranks (11), Soneji (12), Serge (14), RadicalFuzz (16), Enrique (23), Long Con (28), sig (29) 31%

Day 3 LC Wagon:

Long Con
6
Turnip Head (12), Silverwolf (13), sig (18), a2thezebra (19), Serge (23), Quin (25) 23%

Day 4 Gleam Wagon:

agleaminranks
9
Sloonei (15), Silverwolf (16), Golden (18), ika (19), sig (20), Dragon D. Luffy (22), Scotty (23), indiglo (24), Turnip Head (25) 36%

Day 5 DDL Wagon:

Dragon D. Luffy
13
Prisoner 509378 (10), Golden (12), thellama73 (14), Scotty (15), indiglo (22), Prisoner 413022 (23), Draconus (25), Prisoner 650829 (26), Prisoner 277058 (28), Turnip Head (29), Prisoner 813142 (32), Sloonei (34), sig (35) 37%

Day 6 Ika Wagon:

ika
8
Quin (8), Silverwolf (9), sig (10), Soneji (12), Boomslang (15), chaindeath (18), Black Rock (19), Turnip Head (20) 38%

We've got ALOT of common denominators here. Let's stop arguing about how well who reads who how and start lynching them.

[S~V~S]

Holy Hell, Bat Bear! I could kiss you woman!

Totally agree with your list. I am not 100% sold on Chaindeath, so leaving that till the end is perfect to me. At that time we could reassess and see where SW may fit in better.

TH
Quin
Sig

Same order I put them in.

I like trusting you. You know it isn't always easy for me; being on the same page is a good thing

[Sloonei]

Just referencing this post again to show voting patterns.

I'm also going to requote this post from SVS. I think looking at common denominators here is a really good idea. You keep seeing the same names come up over and over. I started working on this by posting voting records before the lynch was up, with the idea of looking at patterns, but it's much easier to do it this way. And patterns are easy to spot.

I'll even color code them (not with the intentions of rainbow-fying) just to make it easier to see the similarities.

We first went wrong when we let the Ika wagon dictate what happened on Day 2.

Day 2 ika wagon:

ika
9
Quin (5), Nerolunar (6), agleaminranks (11), Soneji (12), Serge (14), RadicalFuzz (16), Enrique (23), Long Con (28), sig (29) 31%

Day 3 LC Wagon:

Long Con
6
Turnip Head (12), Silverwolf (13), sig (18), a2thezebra (19), Serge (23), Quin (25) 23%

Day 4 Gleam Wagon:

agleaminranks
9
Sloonei (15), Silverwolf (16), Golden (18), ika (19), sig (20), Dragon D. Luffy (22), Scotty (23), indiglo (24), Turnip Head (25) 36%

Day 5 DDL Wagon:

Dragon D. Luffy
13
Prisoner 509378 (10), Golden (12), thellama73 (14), Scotty (15), indiglo (22), Prisoner 413022 (23), Draconus (25), Prisoner 650829 (26), Prisoner 277058 (28), Turnip Head (29), Prisoner 813142 (32), Sloonei (34), sig (35) 37%

Day 6 Ika Wagon:

ika
8
Quin (8), Silverwolf (9), sig (10), Soneji (12), Boomslang (15), chaindeath (18), Black Rock (19), Turnip Head (20) 38%

We've got ALOT of common denominators here. Let's stop arguing about how well who reads who how and start lynching them.

What is your interpretation of these voting patterns?

[indiglo]

Holy Hell, Bat Bear! I could kiss you woman!

Totally agree with your list. I am not 100% sold on Chaindeath, so leaving that till the end is perfect to me. At that time we could reassess and see where SW may fit in better.

TH
Quin
Sig

Same order I put them in.

I like trusting you. You know it isn't always easy for me; being on the same page is a good thing

I hear you loud and clear!! I feel the same way.

[indiglo]

@ Sloon - that TH, Quin & Sig are likely cops.

[Sloonei]

@ Sloon - that TH, Quin & Sig are likely cops.

Why?

[Silverwolf]

[quote="S~V~S"
When I am bad, when me & my team are talking about who we are going to kill, pretty much anyone who has given one of us the pass is off the table. And I have Silver the pass hard & often in the days following the Fuzzwagon. I can't hlp but wonder if that has anything to do with my still being alive.[/quote]

Calling someone scum because you are still alive is WIFOM and extreme tinfoil. If you are gonna suspect me, you better have a better reason than that. Have you stopped to think about all the failed arrests this game? If we want to look at NK's, we can look at Matt's and see how hard was pushing ika.

I helped lynch Fuzz and was not on DDL so my votes are not terrible and my one on ika could very well be on scum still.

As scum, I kill off obvious town players first regardless of what they think of me. Unless a role has been outed or breadcrumbed and I find it at night.

[indiglo]

@ Sloon - that TH, Quin & Sig are likely cops.

Why?

Looking at the number of players on the roster, and taking into consideration that each day period has had multiple lynch candidates (and generally close in numbers), it is beyond coincidental to me that they voted the same so many times on winning lynches (who have mostly been civs). If they were really playing, making their own conclusions, forming their own suspicions, I don't see anyway they would always vote the same repeatedly on winning lynches.

Look at our Civ Core. Have we agreed unanimously so many times? No. Because we are thinking separately, coming up with suspicions, trying to figure things out on our own. We have discussed over and over in the thread, and still have trouble forming a consensus. (Day 6 was the first time, iirc, that our core all voted together.)

So I just see no way how several people (who have not even been involved in all that thread discussion on candidates that we have been) would separately come to the same conclusion every single day, and have almost all of them be mislynches. If you can explain that to me, please do so. But I am at the point where I feel pretty good about my short list, and I don't want to WIFOM it, etc. This makes perfect sense to me, it seems so clear, and I am ready to move forward on it.

I hope this makes sense. I fear I'm rambling, or leaving out key words because I am suddenly very fired up about this whole thing, and the fact that someone else I trust came to the same conclusion finally, and we are on the same page makes me feel super, super good and just ready to go.

[Silverwolf]

Indiglo-You have suspicions on me as soon as SVS says something, so go ahead and lay them out. Stop beating around the bush. Let's hear it. I don't appreciate the shade throwing while you still refuse to put me in your scumreads. How about you tell me what YOU think instead of listening to SVS or anyone else?

[Serge]

Hello everyone, I'm back and apparently still alive. If someone is the seemer couldn't the person that really holds the role come forward? Or is that rule-breaking?

[Silverwolf]

And don't think I haven't noticed how I've been shut out of the civ core here. Even though every single person that has given a read, has called me town.

That is extremely frustrating to deal with and will result in a town loss which frustrates me because I hate losing.

[Silverwolf]

Hello everyone, I'm back and apparently still alive. If someone is the seemer couldn't the person that really holds the role come forward? Or is that rule-breaking?

No they can't. We can't role reveal here. But nice rolefishing.

[Turnip Head]

Look at our Civ Core. Have we agreed unanimously so many times? No. Because we are thinking separately, coming up with suspicions, trying to figure things out on our own.

Do you think I haven't been doing this?

[indiglo]

Indiglo-You have suspicions on me as soon as SVS says something, so go ahead and lay them out. Stop beating around the bush. Let's hear it. I don't appreciate the shade throwing while you still refuse to put me in your scumreads. How about you tell me what YOU think instead of listening to SVS or anyone else?

My post where I mentioned you got caught in linki. I hadn't read SVS's post yet, I went ahead and posted mine, then read the linki.

(Linki standing for "Linkitis" - the long story short is that when you submit your post, it may not go through, because others may have submitted posts while you were typing. When that happens, I generally type in "linki" to signify that, and if it's not much linki I may reply to it in my post before hitting submit again. If it's a lot of linki - like that time - I submit my post and then read the linki.)

I was not piggy backing on her, she posted hers while I was typing.

[Serge]

Hello everyone, I'm back and apparently still alive. If someone is the seemer couldn't the person that really holds the role come forward? Or is that rule-breaking?

No they can't. We can't role reveal here. But nice rolefishing.

[Serge]

And don't think I haven't noticed how I've been shut out of the civ core here. Even though every single person that has given a read, has called me town.

That is extremely frustrating to deal with and will result in a town loss which frustrates me because I hate losing.

Who/what is the civ core? People can still find you town even if they don't agree with what you're saying in the game.

[Silverwolf]

Hello everyone, I'm back and apparently still alive. If someone is the seemer couldn't the person that really holds the role come forward? Or is that rule-breaking?

No they can't. We can't role reveal here. But nice rolefishing.

How about you contribute something now? That would be extremely helpful if you are town.

[Silverwolf]

And don't think I haven't noticed how I've been shut out of the civ core here. Even though every single person that has given a read, has called me town.

That is extremely frustrating to deal with and will result in a town loss which frustrates me because I hate losing.

Who/what is the civ core? People can still find you town even if they don't agree with what you're saying in the game.

Apparently Sloonei, Prisoner, Indiglo, and SVS have made a civ core. I agree they are all town so that's fine with me. However, that just gives them more of an excuse to ignore me or disregard everything I say. While Sloonei isn't doing that much, the rest are and I'm extremely irritated with it.

[Prisoner 509378]

And don't think I haven't noticed how I've been shut out of the civ core here. Even though every single person that has given a read, has called me town.

That is extremely frustrating to deal with and will result in a town loss which frustrates me because I hate losing.

I include you in the civ core and hope you'll vote with the group. Lone wolfing (no pun intended) is a losing strategy with the ratio so critical.

[S~V~S]

When I am bad, when me & my team are talking about who we are going to kill, pretty much anyone who has given one of us the pass is off the table. And I have Silver the pass hard & often in the days following the Fuzzwagon. I can't hlp but wonder if that has anything to do with my still being alive.

Calling someone scum because you are still alive is WIFOM and extreme tinfoil. If you are gonna suspect me, you better have a better reason than that. Have you stopped to think about all the failed arrests this game? If we want to look at NK's, we can look at Matt's and see how hard was pushing ika.

I helped lynch Fuzz and was not on DDL so my votes are not terrible and my one on ika could very well be on scum still.

As scum, I kill off obvious town players first regardless of what they think of me. Unless a role has been outed or breadcrumbed and I find it at night.

Your votes are pretty terrible. And again, you are talking about *you* as if you are alone when you are bad, when you actually have a team. One person is not responsible for who kills who, it is a group decision. Just like you kept saying what ika would do when bad re the Fuzz lynch, when it would not be his decision to make alone.

As I said, I am conflicted on you. Day 2 makes it hard for me to see you as definitively bad, like I see TH, Quin or sig. But, for all you telling us town is gonna lose if we don't listen to you, you don't have the "towniest" record.

Indiglo-You have suspicions on me as soon as SVS says something, so go ahead and lay them out. Stop beating around the bush. Let's hear it. I don't appreciate the shade throwing while you still refuse to put me in your scumreads. How about you tell me what YOU think instead of listening to SVS or anyone else?

Actually she mentioned it earlier. I had posted something, she saw what I was putting out. Indi never ever coattails others, we are agreeing, but she brings the awesome to a case in ways I just can't do.

And don't think I haven't noticed how I've been shut out of the civ core here. Even though every single person that has given a read, has called me town.

That is extremely frustrating to deal with and will result in a town loss which frustrates me because I hate losing.

Who/what is the civ core? People can still find you town even if they don't agree with what you're saying in the game.

Have you been reading the same game I have?

And Silver, we did not shut you out; but you insisted that we listen to you, but stopped listening to us. None of us thought ika was bad based on the thread. And then it devolved into "town is gonna lose you are gonna be sorry". We have posted our lists; what is your list? Do you have anopinion on TH?

[Silverwolf]

And don't think I haven't noticed how I've been shut out of the civ core here. Even though every single person that has given a read, has called me town.

That is extremely frustrating to deal with and will result in a town loss which frustrates me because I hate losing.

I include you in the civ core and hope you'll vote with the group. Lone wolfing (no pun intended) is a losing strategy with the ratio so critical.

If I feel like the person you want to lynch is actually a cop, I will. If I disagree, I will have no choice but to be a Lone Wolf. I've done it before, and I can do it again. Mass mislynching is just as bad as everyone going their own way.

[Prisoner 509378]

I actually considered for a moment that SW might have the role ika flipped as, but her initial reaction to the lynch would seem to reject that theory.

[Serge]

Well you just called my first contribution since coming back as role-fishing so...

I think there are a lot of people that could've been the seemer but I think we can cross out those ?????? names which leaves us with a few. I think if the seemer will be brought up in the game heavily it's because someone will figure out one's flip is not who they say they are, and they will use that knowledge to their advantage.

If ika is the seemer, indiglo's voting assessments may be way off base and someone will know. Someone will oppose him or go along with him(WIFOM) and if ika is indeed scum it could look like indiglo is using ika's storied and fan-favorite bandwagons as a great tool to paint certain names as scum.

[Silverwolf]

Your votes are pretty terrible. And again, you are talking about *you* as if you are alone when you are bad, when you actually have a team. One person is not responsible for who kills who, it is a group decision. Just like you kept saying what ika would do when bad re the Fuzz lynch, when it would not be his decision to make alone.

How are they terrible? I was on Radical Fuzz, off DDL, and on ika who I still think is scum. They are just fine. I've given my reads and done GTH reads already. They haven't changed, and if they do, I'll say so.

You are the one arguing that you are alive because you gave me a pass. That implies that you think this decision was based on me alone so that's why I told you what I do as scum. Yes, there is a team, but for the most part, I have never had trouble getting my scumteam to go along with me, since I was a very deadly PR hunter as scum on MS.

[Silverwolf]

I actually considered for a moment that SW might have the role ika flipped as, but her initial reaction to the lynch would seem to reject that theory.

I have "reasons" for thinking ika is the seemer.

[Prisoner 509378]

And don't think I haven't noticed how I've been shut out of the civ core here. Even though every single person that has given a read, has called me town.

That is extremely frustrating to deal with and will result in a town loss which frustrates me because I hate losing.

I include you in the civ core and hope you'll vote with the group. Lone wolfing (no pun intended) is a losing strategy with the ratio so critical.

If I feel like the person you want to lynch is actually a cop, I will. If I disagree, I will have no choice but to be a Lone Wolf. I've done it before, and I can do it again. Mass mislynching is just as bad as everyone going their own way.

Stubbornness is the single most common reason for town collapses in my experience. If we're headed for an 11 vs. 5 or even a 10 vs. 5 ratio, we literally cannot afford to lone wolf.

[Silverwolf]

And don't think I haven't noticed how I've been shut out of the civ core here. Even though every single person that has given a read, has called me town.

That is extremely frustrating to deal with and will result in a town loss which frustrates me because I hate losing.

I include you in the civ core and hope you'll vote with the group. Lone wolfing (no pun intended) is a losing strategy with the ratio so critical.

If I feel like the person you want to lynch is actually a cop, I will. If I disagree, I will have no choice but to be a Lone Wolf. I've done it before, and I can do it again. Mass mislynching is just as bad as everyone going their own way.

Stubbornness is the single most common reason for town collapses in my experience. If we're headed for an 11 vs. 5 or even a 10 vs. 5 ratio, we literally cannot afford to lone wolf.

I know and if I think you guys have scum, I will be with you all the way. If I think you are wrong, I will go my own way but explain in great detail why I am doing so in hopes of getting you guys to vote scum.

[Scotty]

Spoiler: show

ISOing Scotty and he's looking pretty good early on.

Hello everyone, sorry for missing out on the last day. I've read up until page 15, hopefully I'll catch up tomorrow.

I'm quite surprised at the number of new players in this specific game. The thread is going so fast and references on other games flash by here and there. Let us be civil(no pun intended), it seems some sparks are flying.

Who/what is a linki? When I catch up hopefully I'll be able to form a clearer picture. If it doesn't come in that form, I'll make that investigation board instead. No matter what happens, I'll cast a vote this day phase.

Hello again Serge, "linki" refers to when a new post pops up during the time you are typing your own new post.

What would you say is your general strategy on Days 1 & 2 of a Mafia game? Has this game been busier than what you are accustomed to?

Hullo Sloonei, I have just arrived at your post. Thanks to you and that other person that explained linki.

I don't like 0s and 1s as they usually revolve around random guessing and nitpicking the tiniest bits of text that may be construed as scummy. An example would be llama saying that Luffy complaining that the game is hard for cops is scummy is an example.

For Day 2, I generally put who got lynched and nightkilled front and center, using the posts from the previous day to try and find any links as to how both these things transpire.

I'm going to resume reading now, see you when I catch up.

I like this dude. I think he is town, mostly because we have similar philosophies.
Though night kills I'm starting to rely less and less on as crutches for suspicions.

let it be known if gleam flips bad, I'm calling Serge as a teammate.

I would like to know what happened between these two posts to prompt Serge being a hypothetical teammate of agleaminranks. Obviously we were wrong about gleam, but I'd like to know what your thought process was in calling Serge a potential bad guy here. And how do you feel about him now?

I'm still here, catching up. Had a long weekend.

You guys ever fiddle with proofs in Geometry class? If a=b and b=c then a=c? That's kinda where my mind is with the potential alignments I'm calling a "trust fund". It's still rather abstract and unfinished but I have a few that I'm toying with in my mind.

Here's a few off the top of my head:
If sig is bad, then Quin is bad.
If sig is good, then golden is probably bad.
If sig is good, then Sloonei is probably bad.
If sig is good, then I am an idiot.
If Silverwolf is bad, then ika is probably bad.
If llama is bad, then DDL is probably good.
If TH is good, then sig is good.
If sig is good, then Quin is probably good.

These are obviously my opinions but just so y'all know, that's where my mind is right now.
I can't shake in the back of my mind that the Don has BTSC with his associate and they would have each other's back. I get nervous in any lynch that the entire thing has been one big ploy (since the cops probably know the identify of at least one don at this point) to get the entire town to rile up a lynch on said Don. It would make sense why the last 2 kills were failed. I think they are Don hunting, and have their target. Now it's just turning the Mafia tide to lynch their own. That's my thought.

Hypothetically- If sig is to be lynched and comes back as the Don (heaven for bid, with how he's played he is the Don lolz), I would look directly at Sloonei and Golden as the perpetrators. And even I would have to answer for a few things I suppose.

The way I see it, I currently trust Golden and Sloonei's lead because it makes sense, and they're so sure of their reads that it's kind of startling.

and anyone looking to tunnel on sig at this point (and to an extent that last lynch) if he is bad, I am inherently going to be suspicious of. I feel sig is grasping at straws here, and if I'm right, this looks worse for DDL, who has gradually started to join the sig train before it gets to the station.
If sig is bad, you know at this point he knows his goose is cooked and would be welcoming any and everyone to ride him like a mechanical bull at closing time.

This post stood out to me at the time because Scotty shared a lot of "if, then" suspicions that I didn't necessarily agree with and I believe I asked him to follow up on it then. It caught my eye this time around, though, because of the weird suggestion that sig could be the Don and that for some reason that implicate Golden and myself. I do not follow any of this, Scotty. Could you elaborate on this week old thought process?

4 pages into Scotty's post history and I'm leaning much more town than I was before. Outside of those couple points of confusion I am reading him as consistently trying to solve the game. His thought process tends to make sense to me and he's exhibited a healthy amount of paranoia, throwing suspicions and reads around all over the place. I would say he's sharing too many reads to be bad, in a way.

The point about which I was most suspicious of Scotty for was his vote history, but after looking at it again I can't fault him for much:
Day 1: chaindeath (1st of 2 voters)
Day 2: agleaminranks (only voter)
Day 3: sig (Earliest vote on the Sig wagon)
Day 4: agleaminranks (7th of 9)
Day 5: Dragon D. Luffy (4 of 13)
Day 6: Boomslang (3 of 6)


The first couple votes don't look great in that he was not really a part of the lynches. Without knowing sig's role we can't really know for sure how to read everyone's reactions to him after Day 2. Scotty and I voted the same people each day from 4-6.

I feel better about Scotty than I did before doing this ISO, and I was already leaning town on him.

I visualized Serge's lack of interaction with gleam was inherently suspicious, though as a whole he's been pretty far removed from the game to give him a comparable look. Not sold on giving him an alignment yet.

As for my if/then statements, (not the shitty Idena Menzel musical) I had a lot of speculation that fell off after the Fuzz lynch. Also, I found both you and Golden's high post counts suspicious in leading the thread. When in reality, i realized that you all were too civvy to be bad, honestly.

"Without knowing sig's role we can't really know for sure how to read everyone's reactions to him after Day 2"
Right. I've been on the struggle bus since we didn't lynch sig, and I'm beginning to think it was a bad idea not to lynch him when we did. Note to self: lynch sig.

[Prisoner 509378]

I know and if I think you guys have scum, I will be with you all the way. If I think you are wrong, I will go my own way but explain in great detail why I am doing so in hopes of getting you guys to vote scum.

I think, at least off-hand, that you've been pretty on-board with most of the names being fielded as top suspects now (particularly those with less content). I mean players like Boomslang and chaindeath.

The points of contention will likely come at sig and Quin.

Draconus remains underdiscussed so that's someone I'd be willing to talk about. I think a lot of people have left him alone because they weren't alarmed by his predecessor Mongoose, but that's a weak defense to stand on this late in the game and I'm not inspired.

If I have any tinfoil remaining, it'd be Epignosis.

[Prisoner 509378]

Silverwolf, what do you think of Turnip Head?

[Prisoner 509378]

Epignosis, I have no idea what you think of Turnip Head. Do you think anything of Turnip Head?

[Scotty]

*Fixed*
Of this group

Quin (8), Silverwolf (9), sig (10), Soneji (12), Boomslang (15), chaindeath (18), Black Rock (19), Turnip Head (20)

This is who I think is probably bad:

Quin
sig
Boomrique
chaindeath
Turnip Head.

Of these, I feel that Turnip head is the most dangerous.

So my best order would be (in order of perceived threat based on participation, persuasiveness, etc):

TH
Quin
sig
Boomrique
chaindeath

This might also be controversial, and I've been avoiding it because I don't feel like I want to attract her ire, but why is Silver considered civ again?

I've seen many players over the years who have shown this level of frustration when they feel their reads/contributions aren't being given the time of day (whether that's accurate or not). Nearly all of them have been town. I also think her current perspective of ika shows a healthy amount of town paranoia, and I don't think she'd have become quite so animated if she were attempting to pull wool over our eyes. Finding sincerity in her posts is perhaps the single easiest thing to do in this game.

Is there a reason you think she should be given more scrutiny?

Finding badness in her votes is the second easiest thing to do in this game. I had not realized just how bad until I started reading back on her more when she abandoned her suspish of ika in order to try to catch that evil guy Draconus (who was only on one of the civ wagons, DDLs), then came back to him, and started getting mad at us for not listening to her.

I am deeply conflicted on Silver. Rereading her today did not help. I am not taking frustration into account; people get frustrated whether civ or bad. Going back, the timeline was different that I thought it was. She posted about Fuzz' bad vote before TH brought up the CFD (and when it formed on Fuzz, he was pretty reluctant to go that way at first).

Based on that, I have problems seeing her as bad, just like based on that I had problems seeing ika as bad. But almost everything she has done since then sets offmy alarms, and I think I do pretty well at Mafia because I pay attention to my alarms. So maybe paranoia on my part. I still lean civ on her in a GTH scenario, but I waffle.

The fact that she & sig virtually simultaneously brought up the seemer issue concerned me.

When I am bad, when me & my team are talking about who we are going to kill, pretty much anyone who has given one of us the pass is off the table. And I have Silver the pass hard & often in the days following the Fuzzwagon. I can't hlp but wonder if that has anything to do with my still being alive.

While I tend to agree with this list, I feel more comfortable lunching boom or Quin before TH. I'm noting your desire to cut the head off the horse in TH for his knack for persuasion, but I am not wholly convinced he is as confirmed bad in my mind as Quin and boom. Baby steps, is my recommendation.

[Quin]

Prisoner aside, unless you have BTSC together then the person you trust the most could be manipulating you. If you don't scum read me, what makes you trust me less than the others? Because they lynched more people? Are you still suspicious of me? To answer both points, lynching ika would help you answer those questions.

Do you think I am manipulating indiglo?
Assuming I'm one of her safe and trusted good guys.[/quote]

No, I have a healthy town read for you right now. I just don't like to see someone express their willingness to lynch someone they don't scumread just because the people they trust do. Especially if it's me

linki: I had to chop half of that out because I can't quote more than 7 existing quotes or something. Aw.

[Prisoner 509378]

I agree with Scotty on this point. I don't think a player being "dangerous" or perceived as such should make them a more immediate lynch priority. The top suspect should be lynched regardless of who that is, because it absolutely must be a cop.

[Quin]

It was only a matter of time before someone brought up ika being the seemer. I wish I could agree, but I think you're wrong. He hinted him being the stool pigeon a while ago, so unless hes really playing us, I think he was civ.

I definitely think the possibility exists that ika is the seemer. I was shocked that he appeared as town, so I want to see that as a valid conclusion. If he is actually town, he played an unnecessarily scummy town game. if he is the seemer, he's done an extremely good job until the very end because I'm torn between the two possibilities. I'm going to sit on it for a little while.

Can someone tell me where in these two posts I said ika is the seemer? SVS is being cocky again, twisting my words and she needs to sit down.

[Quin]

Now, with that out of the way, I'll be doing an chaindeath ISO. I would like to contribute.

[Sloonei]

Sloonei, I'd really like to know your take on the discussion I just had with Turnip. I ask you specifically because I think you'd be the least proned to bias on that read.

I'd need to look back at his casing of LC in full, but my immeidate reaction is that Turnip doesn't seem entirely convincing or comfortable answering your questions. His dismissal of your main point about his vote for ika yesterday is alarming. I don't think it's a difficult notion to grasp but he kind of dances around it a bit and never really gives a satisfactory response. For now it's making me feel worse about him, but I have a bit of digging to do before I can answer completely.

I've done this. Most of Turnip's replies were not inconsistent with what I see in his Day 3 behavior, but I also do not feel like the LC vote in general was a great look for him. He went from wanting "to give the anti-CFDers get their proper day in court", to giving 2 of the 3 of them strong town reads and focusing instead on Scotty and then Long Con, the latter for his own "ambivalence" toward sig and Quin. I see no ambivalence in Long Con's posts. I see him saying the following things, though:

As I've said more than once, I pretty much agree with the cases that have been made against [sig & quin]. I have seen the rebuttals, and I have seen some people that are convinced by their defenses, and I can understand why. I don't know if they're bad, but I do think that there are plenty of reasons to have them as top lynch candidates."

I already said I agree with Golden and others who believe that the Fuzz CFD is likely all Civ (at least the five or so earliest voters), and that we're more likely to find baddies on the ika train. I would be fine with a sig or Quin lynch, I just happen to find Nero suspicious and no one else had really looked at him at all.

So I'm not entirely sure I buy Turnip Head's Night 6 explanation of his Day 3 case against LC. LC's posts don't support the claims that TH is making, unless I'm missing something.