[END] Bioshock Mafia

[DharmaHelper]

To single someone out because of their username by itself is foolish, yes. But certainly if things compounded upon that as they do in the case of Boo, discussion can and should be generated. I'm sure if this was Plan D, I'd have something to say about people singling me out as a baddie based solely on the fact that my name starts with D, but if there was evidence to support that I was bad as there is evidence to support say, boo being bad, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Often times baddies are caught in such cosmic ways.

21.

Of course, yeah. All I'm saying is the idea that people are bad solely because of their name is not one we should take seriously, just in case anyone was considering it. It's probably mostly because I fall into the category but anyone using 'Plan B' as their only reason to vote should be looked at IMO.

19

One thing I did want to ask you and I guess anyone else is do you think boo's vote for llama is odd? I ask because he seems to have stuck to his guns D2 when the Aces vote helped out BWT, and seems to be still suspicious of Aces all things considered. I'm again under the impression that baddies used llama as a spacegoat.

22.

[Snow Dog]

Epignosis, What do you think of Llama's "B is for baddie" theory now? I mean, now that he has turned out to be civ. I cannot find the quote right now, but I believe Bullz was included in his theory, but bea voted for bullz Day 3.

1 - Don't worry Snow Dog, I will be the loser in this event.

I feel like such a turd for Logan's death, and even worse that I know bird's real team is laughing their asses off at me (I even dreamed about the Logan lynch last night). Now that I know the truth, I owe it to llama to reread his posts with a civilian context.

I'll admit that I thought the B is for bad theory was bunk, and to be fair, Logan was firing shots in a lot of directions. There is some analysis I'd like to do though now that I'm home (it figures that I'd be called into work when a posting contest starts).

As far as Bs go, however, BoatBoatsBoats is high on my list for his super speed reading power coupled with the fact that he has been literally useless during all three Days.

Um, 4

Oh yes..Boats...let's not forget him. Definitely suspicious. That superfast reading, understanding, posting power. A suspect high on the list I fancy. (I don't actually fancy him)

8

[Elohcin]

Epignosis, What do you think of Llama's "B is for baddie" theory now? I mean, now that he has turned out to be civ. I cannot find the quote right now, but I believe Bullz was included in his theory, but bea voted for bullz Day 3.

1 - Don't worry Snow Dog, I will be the loser in this event.

Well I'll reply to you to help your posts.

For myself I don't hold any credence with the B for Baddie theory. Just another wild llama idea. Even though he was civ, doesn't make him right.

5

I think it sounds like a pretty silly idea. But you never know. From what I've seen of llama in previous games, he seems to have good intuitions. Some people are just good at that kind of thing. Then I think, if the roles were given randomly, then what are the chances, right?

2

To comment on the "B" votes thing, I'm in agreement with you Elo that it does seem a tad silly. However, one thing in my style of play that I am working on is my confidence. Often I flush out a good deal of baddies and do not have the confidence to see it through. (JLvA Mafia, Avant Mafia, just to name 2). I think as it relates to llama, (the gambit, Plan B) I can see how he might be in the right place, on the right track, and things work out so unbelievably well that nobody follows through....

To say that a little clearer, I hope that "it seems too good to be true" is not enough to turn everyone away from being confident in their pursuits.
20.

I understand what you are saying. If they are already high on the suspect list, why not go ahead and vote them out. If we vote out another "B" and they turn up bad, llama just might not be crazy after all.

3

[nutella]

Nutella, can you explain why you want to look at Epig in more detail? If you did already can you link me to that post or quote it? Again I am a smidge nervous that the llama lynch was the baddie's way of kicking Epig in the gut to get him off his game and possibly get alot of his cred off.

Epig can you also reiterate who you're looking at now that thellama has come up civ?

19 because mistakes.

Oh lol I forgot I said that. I think a few people brought his name up just because he pushed the llama lynch so much, and I thought I would at least keep half an eye on him. Honestly I don't really see much reason to suspect him, unless I'm forgetting something. I have a long enough list of current people to look at so he's not really at the forefront of my attentions atm.

6.

[Bullzeye]

To single someone out because of their username by itself is foolish, yes. But certainly if things compounded upon that as they do in the case of Boo, discussion can and should be generated. I'm sure if this was Plan D, I'd have something to say about people singling me out as a baddie based solely on the fact that my name starts with D, but if there was evidence to support that I was bad as there is evidence to support say, boo being bad, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Often times baddies are caught in such cosmic ways.

21.

Of course, yeah. All I'm saying is the idea that people are bad solely because of their name is not one we should take seriously, just in case anyone was considering it. It's probably mostly because I fall into the category but anyone using 'Plan B' as their only reason to vote should be looked at IMO.

19

One thing I did want to ask you and I guess anyone else is do you think boo's vote for llama is odd? I ask because he seems to have stuck to his guns D2 when the Aces vote helped out BWT, and seems to be still suspicious of Aces all things considered. I'm again under the impression that baddies used llama as a spacegoat.

22.

I don't know, maybe. It's hard to tell because his first post on Day 3 is when he voted, so we can't really know where his head was before that. He was third to vote for Llama as well so it's not like he just saw a bandwagon and jumped on but it's definitely possible Llama was a scapegoat.

20

[DharmaHelper]

Nutella, can you explain why you want to look at Epig in more detail? If you did already can you link me to that post or quote it? Again I am a smidge nervous that the llama lynch was the baddie's way of kicking Epig in the gut to get him off his game and possibly get alot of his cred off.

Epig can you also reiterate who you're looking at now that thellama has come up civ?

19 because mistakes.

Oh lol I forgot I said that. I think a few people brought his name up just because he pushed the llama lynch so much, and I thought I would at least keep half an eye on him. Honestly I don't really see much reason to suspect him, unless I'm forgetting something. I have a long enough list of current people to look at so he's not really at the forefront of my attentions atm.

6.

I'm confused. You saw other people bringing up Epig so you did too even though you have no intention of pursuing him as a suspect? That doesn't sound a great deal civvie minded to me, but maybe I'm misreading. I wonder if Epig has anything to say about that. Given he lead the charge on at least one baddie I'm willing to consider him as a civvie at this stage.

23.

[Matahari]

Can anyone post or do you have to be part of the contest?

I wonder about something, is it possible that boo only voted aces two days in a row, to cement the idea that he wasn't trying to save BWT.

If I'm not supposed to post, kindly ignore.

[DharmaHelper]

@Nuttella, I'm still interested in your response to my assertion, but I think you will agree that Matahari's idea that boo voted for Aces 2 times to cement that he wasn't saving bwt is flawed in that boo first started voting for Aces D1 before bwt was in danger. So the time he voted for Aces to possibly save bwt was after his only other vote for Aces..

24.

[Hedgeowl]

Can anyone post or do you have to be part of the contest?

I wonder about something, is it possible that boo only voted aces two days in a row, to cement the idea that he wasn't trying to save BWT.

If I'm not supposed to post, kindly ignore.

Yes we are allowed to post, but it appears they cannot respond to us directly, so it's a bit one-sided.

[DharmaHelper]

I think we can respond to you directly as long as we don't count that towards the contest. Unfortunately for you plebs I want to win the contest.

[Mongoose]

Epignosis, What do you think of Llama's "B is for baddie" theory now? I mean, now that he has turned out to be civ. I cannot find the quote right now, but I believe Bullz was included in his theory, but bea voted for bullz Day 3.

1 - Don't worry Snow Dog, I will be the loser in this event.

I feel like such a turd for Logan's death, and even worse that I know bird's real team is laughing their asses off at me (I even dreamed about the Logan lynch last night). Now that I know the truth, I owe it to llama to reread his posts with a civilian context.

I'll admit that I thought the B is for bad theory was bunk, and to be fair, Logan was firing shots in a lot of directions. There is some analysis I'd like to do though now that I'm home (it figures that I'd be called into work when a posting contest starts).

As far as Bs go, however, BoatBoatsBoats is high on my list for his super speed reading power coupled with the fact that he has been literally useless during all three Days.

Um, 4

Oh yes..Boats...let's not forget him. Definitely suspicious. That superfast reading, understanding, posting power. A suspect high on the list I fancy. (I don't actually fancy him)

8

Llama is an easy scapegoat, and I hate to see him killed off so early again. Whomever mentioned Boats' having BTSC was definitely right on the money. You can skim that many posts in 12 minutes, but his post showed he had retained and synthesized the information. As Epi (et al.) pointed out, that's just not feasible in 12 minutes. However, I don't think it's just BTSC; I think he may be a lurker. He might be in this forum, reading this very post RIGHT NOW.

012.

[nutella]

Nutella, can you explain why you want to look at Epig in more detail? If you did already can you link me to that post or quote it? Again I am a smidge nervous that the llama lynch was the baddie's way of kicking Epig in the gut to get him off his game and possibly get alot of his cred off.

Epig can you also reiterate who you're looking at now that thellama has come up civ?

19 because mistakes.

Oh lol I forgot I said that. I think a few people brought his name up just because he pushed the llama lynch so much, and I thought I would at least keep half an eye on him. Honestly I don't really see much reason to suspect him, unless I'm forgetting something. I have a long enough list of current people to look at so he's not really at the forefront of my attentions atm.

6.

I'm confused. You saw other people bringing up Epig so you did too even though you have no intention of pursuing him as a suspect? That doesn't sound a great deal civvie minded to me, but maybe I'm misreading. I wonder if Epig has anything to say about that. Given he lead the charge on at least one baddie I'm willing to consider him as a civvie at this stage.

23.

Sorry that didn't make sense. It was more like I got distracted by other suspects and forgot I was going to look at Epig, and now that I think about it he seems civ to me so far. Though hopefully now I'll remember to at least keep an eye on him.

@Nuttella, I'm still interested in your response to my assertion, but I think you will agree that Matahari's idea that boo voted for Aces 2 times to cement that he wasn't saving bwt is flawed in that boo first started voting for Aces D1 before bwt was in danger. So the time he voted for Aces to possibly save bwt was after his only other vote for Aces..

24.

Yes I agree with you here. What Mata said doesn't make sense. But I still find Boo suspicious -- llama as a scapegoat or "spacegoat" I loled at that seems convenient.

7.

[Mongoose]

@SnowDog

Is there anything specific apart from Lizzy's Tank Engine win giving her confidence enough to goof off and get away with it that makes you think she is bad? I will admit she fooled me in Tank Engine but I am not seeing anything definitive so far in this game. Thank you for offering an explanation about your Aces comment btw.

8.

I admit that her performance in that game may be clouding my judgement. In this game she is behaving more confidently imo so it isn't exactly the same. She almost seems to be goading us into voting her, dancing on the edge of the abyss. Is she daring us? Is she thinking we think she cannot possible be bad? For voting herself Is this her baddie behaviour?

I don't know. But it makes me nervous. I feel if I let it go she will be along for the entire game and turn up mafia at the end after convincing everyone she is good.


2

I've thought about that too because Lizzy is a slippery one, but she doesn't respond to pressure at all (see her post earlier today). She is immune to any kind of baiting attempt. Her intense stoic acumen is befuddling me. If we keep at it (and keep an eye are her), even she is bound to slip somewhere.

linki nutella: I love the idea of Llama as a Space Goat.

013.

[Matahari]

Ok thanks. So maybe I worded that badly. What I mean is that boo had voted aces, easy to stick with his suspicion of aces on the next day if it keeps him from having to vote a teammate. Dropping aces the next day to vote llama allow him to move away from his aces suspicion which was kind of silly anyway.

The reason this thought is going thru my head is because boo actually mentioned my 'thoughts' on llama in his post about llama. No one does that. They usually politely ignore me, but trying to make sense out of things I say? Unbelievable.

[DharmaHelper]

Mongoose - I do agree that retaining that much info in that short a time frame is odd. Though his post wasn't very detailed, he did demonstrate at least a basic knowledge of a number of key thread topics that I just don't think make sense for just doing a read back in the time frame he had. But I don't think that alone is enough to condemn him. Seems to me to be at the moment a coincidence, but again if a case crops up that compells me, I'd look in that direction for sure.

Linki - Thanks for that response nutella, that is much more eloquently put.

25.


[ot Linki - Spacegoat is my favorite mafia thing ever. Thanks to unfurl.[/ot]

[Epignosis]

Epignosis, What do you think of Llama's "B is for baddie" theory now? I mean, now that he has turned out to be civ. I cannot find the quote right now, but I believe Bullz was included in his theory, but bea voted for bullz Day 3.

1 - Don't worry Snow Dog, I will be the loser in this event.

I feel like such a turd for Logan's death, and even worse that I know bird's real team is laughing their asses off at me (I even dreamed about the Logan lynch last night). Now that I know the truth, I owe it to llama to reread his posts with a civilian context.

I'll admit that I thought the B is for bad theory was bunk, and to be fair, Logan was firing shots in a lot of directions. There is some analysis I'd like to do though now that I'm home (it figures that I'd be called into work when a posting contest starts).

As far as Bs go, however, BoatBoatsBoats is high on my list for his super speed reading power coupled with the fact that he has been literally useless during all three Days.

Um, 4

Oh yes..Boats...let's not forget him. Definitely suspicious. That superfast reading, understanding, posting power. A suspect high on the list I fancy. (I don't actually fancy him)

8

Llama is an easy scapegoat, and I hate to see him killed off so early again. Whomever mentioned Boats' having BTSC was definitely right on the money. You can skim that many posts in 12 minutes, but his post showed he had retained and synthesized the information. As Epi (et al.) pointed out, that's just not feasible in 12 minutes. However, I don't think it's just BTSC; I think he may be a lurker. He might be in this forum, reading this very post RIGHT NOW.

012.

My top three suspects incidentally are Bs. Boo & Bullzeye because they voted for AceofSpaces on Day 2 and then thellama73 on Day 3. If either of them were teammates of bird's, they might try to save bird by voting for Ace, and would have no qualms about lynching thellama73.

And BoatsBoatsBoats was disingenuous and got caught. That's the kind of thing I just love.

5

[Mongoose]

Google Image search for "Space Goat" comes up with some really adorable depictions.

[Elohcin]

Epignosis, What do you think of Llama's "B is for baddie" theory now? I mean, now that he has turned out to be civ. I cannot find the quote right now, but I believe Bullz was included in his theory, but bea voted for bullz Day 3.

1 - Don't worry Snow Dog, I will be the loser in this event.

I feel like such a turd for Logan's death, and even worse that I know bird's real team is laughing their asses off at me (I even dreamed about the Logan lynch last night). Now that I know the truth, I owe it to llama to reread his posts with a civilian context.

I'll admit that I thought the B is for bad theory was bunk, and to be fair, Logan was firing shots in a lot of directions. There is some analysis I'd like to do though now that I'm home (it figures that I'd be called into work when a posting contest starts).

As far as Bs go, however, BoatBoatsBoats is high on my list for his super speed reading power coupled with the fact that he has been literally useless during all three Days.

Um, 4

Oh yes..Boats...let's not forget him. Definitely suspicious. That superfast reading, understanding, posting power. A suspect high on the list I fancy. (I don't actually fancy him)

8

Llama is an easy scapegoat, and I hate to see him killed off so early again. Whomever mentioned Boats' having BTSC was definitely right on the money. You can skim that many posts in 12 minutes, but his post showed he had retained and synthesized the information. As Epi (et al.) pointed out, that's just not feasible in 12 minutes. However, I don't think it's just BTSC; I think he may be a lurker. He might be in this forum, reading this very post RIGHT NOW.

012.

My top three suspects incidentally are Bs. Boo & Bullzeye because they voted for AceofSpaces on Day 2 and then thellama73 on Day 3. If either of them were teammates of bird's, they might try to save bird by voting for Ace, and would have no qualms about lynching thellama73.

And BoatsBoatsBoats was disingenuous and got caught. That's the kind of thing I just love.

5

So, like I said. If we have all these "B" suspects, I say we try one of them before a suspect that has a different letter at the start of their name. I know it sounds silly, but llama has a great track record for intuition imo. What do you think about bea, Epi? Her claim to be civ just sounded so forced to me.

I am having a hard time keeping up with the thread today and I am not even working right now. Did everyone call in sick so they could win the event?

4
4

[Mongoose]

[quote="DharmaHelper"]Mongoose - I do agree that retaining that much info in that short a time frame is odd. Though his post wasn't very detailed, he did demonstrate at least a basic knowledge of a number of key thread topics that I just don't think make sense for just doing a read back in the time frame he had. But I don't think that alone is enough to condemn him. Seems to me to be at the moment a coincidence, but again if a case crops up that compells me, I'd look in that direction for sure.

Linki - Thanks for that response nutella, that is much more eloquently put.

25.



Boats voted for himself on D3, so that's a head scratcher. Although it seems like a selfless, altruistic action, which is just the image one would want to portray if that player's allegiance was less than honorable. What is your experience with self-voters turning out to be bad?

I'm glad my name isn't Bongoose.

014.

[Mongoose]

I am having a hard time keeping up with the thread today and I am not even working right now. Did everyone call in sick so they could win the event?

4
4

No, but luckily the library has been really slow today!

[Flyin' High]

I'm also a bit worried about FH - I'm surprised she doesn't see me as civ here. I'm always wishy-washy when I'm not sure what's going on. You know the only time I'm confident in my vote is when I have info. Any other time, I don't know and I second guess everything like 3 times. You've had civ bts with me and have seen me second guess myself like 3 times and 6 more on sunday. I love you too, but you are making me a bit sketched out tbh.

Um, I haven't mentioned you even once this game I don't think... Are you confusing my posts with someone else? But I agree that you are very much like me when civvie: unsure of how to vote for fear of voting a fellow civvie.

As for those mentioning that I am usually more helpful when civvie I want to reiterate that because it is summer I am incredibly swamped with work. June and July are literally my busiest months of the year because it's when my insects are out. I travel every single day for work meaning I can't get to a computer until I get home or to a hotel. And when I do get to a computer I'm pretty exhausted from all the driving and being out in the heat for hours (North Carolina heat and humidity aren't fun).

I am trying to be as helpful with my ideas when I do post. I still think Dex is worth looking at. As I mentioned previously, I have seen him pull of some crazy stunts when bad like throwing his own teammate under the bus on Day 1 of a game so I won't discount what's he doing now as not having nefarious intentions.

I do find it very odd that Boats was able to catch up as quickly as he apparently did. Him having BTSC is definitely a good explanation for his quick summary post.

I should have stuck to my guns and voted Dex again yesterday, but honestly I thought some of the stuff being brought up about llama had merits. Obviously that was a bad decision and it sucks that llama had to pay the price.

I am trying to keep up as much as possible with this game because I've been dying to play it ever since MP first submitted the idea, but unfortunately as I've mentioned, the timing really sucks based on my work life right now.

[DharmaHelper]

Mongoose - I do agree that retaining that much info in that short a time frame is odd. Though his post wasn't very detailed, he did demonstrate at least a basic knowledge of a number of key thread topics that I just don't think make sense for just doing a read back in the time frame he had. But I don't think that alone is enough to condemn him. Seems to me to be at the moment a coincidence, but again if a case crops up that compells me, I'd look in that direction for sure.

Linki - Thanks for that response nutella, that is much more eloquently put.

25.



Boats voted for himself on D3, so that's a head scratcher. Although it seems like a selfless, altruistic action, which is just the image one would want to portray if that player's allegiance was less than honorable. What is your experience with self-voters turning out to be bad?

I'm glad my name isn't Bongoose.

014.

I can't honestly recall any correlation to self voting and baddiness in a recent game. I know I only do it once in a blue moon and most of the time to either goof off or because there is something secret that I want for myself. So I think just the opposite, that self voting is rather selfish and counterproductive in nature and intent.

26.

[Epignosis]

So, like I said. If we have all these "B" suspects, I say we try one of them before a suspect that has a different letter at the start of their name. I know it sounds silly, but llama has a great track record for intuition imo. What do you think about bea, Epi? Her claim to be civ just sounded so forced to me.

I am having a hard time keeping up with the thread today and I am not even working right now. Did everyone call in sick so they could win the event?

4
4

I have no suspicion of bea at present. I disagree that she sounded forced. That said, my experience with bea was limited; even though we were on a team together in Avant 2, she got killed early on as I recall.

6

[nutella]

@Mongoose and DH - the thing about self voting in this game is that there are two(? I think 2) baddie roles that start the game with their vote not counting until something happens. This was brought up earlier in regards to Lizzy and A Person (and perhaps Dex). So it's not making me feel any better about Boats. Although I should probably read the roles again to see what would make those roles' votes count, it may be something that would surely be triggered by this point in the game.

8.

[nutella]

• Little Sister 1 – Is guarded by Big Daddy (Bouncer) and searches for ADAM in dead players. Starts the game with a lynch vote value of zero. Every odd night she searches the dead players for a player who might have used a Plasmid. If she finds one who did in the course of his/her life, then she extracts the ADAM and gains the power of another vote for the remainder of the game.


• Little Sister 2 – Is guarded by Big Daddy (Rosie) and searches for ADAM in dead players. Starts the game with a lynch vote value of zero. Every even night she searches the dead players for a player who might have used a Plasmid. If she finds one who did in the course of his/her life, then she extracts the ADAM and gains the power of another vote for the remainder of the game.

here we go. Okay so they've each only had one night for the opportunity to find someone, so it's quite likely their votes still don't count.

[Epignosis]

• Little Sister 1 – Is guarded by Big Daddy (Bouncer) and searches for ADAM in dead players. Starts the game with a lynch vote value of zero. Every odd night she searches the dead players for a player who might have used a Plasmid. If she finds one who did in the course of his/her life, then she extracts the ADAM and gains the power of another vote for the remainder of the game.


• Little Sister 2 – Is guarded by Big Daddy (Rosie) and searches for ADAM in dead players. Starts the game with a lynch vote value of zero. Every even night she searches the dead players for a player who might have used a Plasmid. If she finds one who did in the course of his/her life, then she extracts the ADAM and gains the power of another vote for the remainder of the game.

here we go. Okay so they've each only had one night for the opportunity to find someone, so it's quite likely their votes still don't count.

Even if they were both successful, their votes would only be worth one by this point (and I agree that's unlikely). A self-vote could be an indication that the vote is worthless. However, would their teammates think self-voting (and the scrutiny it would bring) be a good strategy?

7

[DharmaHelper]

• Little Sister 1 – Is guarded by Big Daddy (Bouncer) and searches for ADAM in dead players. Starts the game with a lynch vote value of zero. Every odd night she searches the dead players for a player who might have used a Plasmid. If she finds one who did in the course of his/her life, then she extracts the ADAM and gains the power of another vote for the remainder of the game.


• Little Sister 2 – Is guarded by Big Daddy (Rosie) and searches for ADAM in dead players. Starts the game with a lynch vote value of zero. Every even night she searches the dead players for a player who might have used a Plasmid. If she finds one who did in the course of his/her life, then she extracts the ADAM and gains the power of another vote for the remainder of the game.

here we go. Okay so they've each only had one night for the opportunity to find someone, so it's quite likely their votes still don't count.

Oh that is interesting. I don't think alot of the early dead will have had a chance to use plasmids. Also, looting might come into play as well. If someone is looted and nobody gets anything from it, chances are that person used their plasmid if they had any. Just a thought for the future.

27

[Epignosis]

Boats voted for himself on D3, so that's a head scratcher. Although it seems like a selfless, altruistic action, which is just the image one would want to portray if that player's allegiance was less than honorable. What is your experience with self-voters turning out to be bad?

014.

Voting for yourself is not a selfless, altruistic action. If anything, it's selfish, because it means the self-voter didn't help us in actually apprehending a foe, and it likely means he or she didn't offer a case that could be scrutinized later. And for that, I think self-voting is cowardly.

8

[Nevinera]

It is possible though. Llama's idea depends on it being deliberate though. At least that's what I thought he meant, unless he thought he stumbled on a cosmic coincidence.

7

As I said, I'm pretty confident that the *letter* was not really relevant. I think it was an aside, attached to his actual (logical) argument about vote timing.
Could we stop focusing purely on what is clearly an absurd argument, and talk about things that have any evidence at all?

8

[Epignosis]

It is possible though. Llama's idea depends on it being deliberate though. At least that's what I thought he meant, unless he thought he stumbled on a cosmic coincidence.

7

As I said, I'm pretty confident that the *letter* was not really relevant. I think it was an aside, attached to his actual (logical) argument about vote timing.
Could we stop focusing purely on what is clearly an absurd argument, and talk about things that have any evidence at all?

8

Would you kindly tell us if you've changed your mind about bea, and what your current thoughts on boo and Bullzeye are? I've gone through your posts, and you don't seem keen on making cases- just reacting. I do not think that makes you bad...just kind of unhelpful. I'd also like to know what you think about Boats.

And what the hell? I get home from work and nobody wants to talk.

9

[Mongoose]

• Little Sister 1 – Is guarded by Big Daddy (Bouncer) and searches for ADAM in dead players. Starts the game with a lynch vote value of zero. Every odd night she searches the dead players for a player who might have used a Plasmid. If she finds one who did in the course of his/her life, then she extracts the ADAM and gains the power of another vote for the remainder of the game.


• Little Sister 2 – Is guarded by Big Daddy (Rosie) and searches for ADAM in dead players. Starts the game with a lynch vote value of zero. Every even night she searches the dead players for a player who might have used a Plasmid. If she finds one who did in the course of his/her life, then she extracts the ADAM and gains the power of another vote for the remainder of the game.

here we go. Okay so they've each only had one night for the opportunity to find someone, so it's quite likely their votes still don't count.

Even if they were both successful, their votes would only be worth one by this point (and I agree that's unlikely). A self-vote could be an indication that the vote is worthless. However, would their teammates think self-voting (and the scrutiny it would bring) be a good strategy?

7

Maybe the other teammate(s) aren't necessarily veteran players, and maybe wouldn't think that a self-vote would tip us off.

@ Dharma - Interesting thoughts on the selfishness of self-voting. I think we will all be scrutinizing such behavior even more from now on.

@ Epi - I'm back at a computer, so let's roll!

015.

[Mongoose]

EBWOP:

Dharma & Epi both mentioned the lack of altruism in self-voting. My apologies.

[Epignosis]

• Little Sister 1 – Is guarded by Big Daddy (Bouncer) and searches for ADAM in dead players. Starts the game with a lynch vote value of zero. Every odd night she searches the dead players for a player who might have used a Plasmid. If she finds one who did in the course of his/her life, then she extracts the ADAM and gains the power of another vote for the remainder of the game.


• Little Sister 2 – Is guarded by Big Daddy (Rosie) and searches for ADAM in dead players. Starts the game with a lynch vote value of zero. Every even night she searches the dead players for a player who might have used a Plasmid. If she finds one who did in the course of his/her life, then she extracts the ADAM and gains the power of another vote for the remainder of the game.

here we go. Okay so they've each only had one night for the opportunity to find someone, so it's quite likely their votes still don't count.

Even if they were both successful, their votes would only be worth one by this point (and I agree that's unlikely). A self-vote could be an indication that the vote is worthless. However, would their teammates think self-voting (and the scrutiny it would bring) be a good strategy?

7

Maybe the other teammate(s) aren't necessarily veteran players, and maybe wouldn't think that a self-vote would tip us off.

@ Dharma - Interesting thoughts on the selfishness of self-voting. I think we will all be scrutinizing such behavior even more from now on.

@ Epi - I'm back at a computer, so let's roll!

015.

If self-voters can get away with self-voting, and they are bad, then their strategy is working. If they are good, then I see little reason to self-vote. But the number of self-voters in this game is inordinately high- which makes me think something else is going on.

10

[Nevinera]

Would you kindly tell us if you've changed your mind about bea, and what your current thoughts on boo and Bullzeye are? I've gone through your posts, and you don't seem keen on making cases- just reacting. I do not think that makes you bad...just kind of unhelpful. I'd also like to know what you think about Boats.

And what the hell? I get home from work and nobody wants to talk.

9

I have not changed my 'mind' about bea, which is to say that I have encountered no new objective evidence for or against her, and still consider her the best suspect.
I have my eye on Boo and Bullz for the same reasons, the timing of their votes for Aces on the BWT kill.

I'm not 'making cases' left and right, no. There's not much information to make them with, and I'm not keen on making crap up just so I can talk about it.
In general, I view making cases with weak or no evidence to be detrimental to the civilian cause in the long run -
someone has to do it to give the baddies impetus to make mistakes and reveal information, but we have quite an abundance of wave-makers already in play.

So yes, I'm "kind of unhelpful" for the time being. My helpfulness will gradually increase as more information becomes available,
and I am able to make more numerous/confident observations about voting patterns, vote timing, and kills (not that I'm the only one doing that this game).

I'm talking even less than I would, because DH seems be given to posting the same kinds of analysis that I like to.
His analysis seems spot-on to me (suspicions against myself aside); I'm feeling pretty sure DH is a civ.

8

[DharmaHelper]

• Little Sister 1 – Is guarded by Big Daddy (Bouncer) and searches for ADAM in dead players. Starts the game with a lynch vote value of zero. Every odd night she searches the dead players for a player who might have used a Plasmid. If she finds one who did in the course of his/her life, then she extracts the ADAM and gains the power of another vote for the remainder of the game.


• Little Sister 2 – Is guarded by Big Daddy (Rosie) and searches for ADAM in dead players. Starts the game with a lynch vote value of zero. Every even night she searches the dead players for a player who might have used a Plasmid. If she finds one who did in the course of his/her life, then she extracts the ADAM and gains the power of another vote for the remainder of the game.

here we go. Okay so they've each only had one night for the opportunity to find someone, so it's quite likely their votes still don't count.

Even if they were both successful, their votes would only be worth one by this point (and I agree that's unlikely). A self-vote could be an indication that the vote is worthless. However, would their teammates think self-voting (and the scrutiny it would bring) be a good strategy?

7

Maybe the other teammate(s) aren't necessarily veteran players, and maybe wouldn't think that a self-vote would tip us off.

@ Dharma - Interesting thoughts on the selfishness of self-voting. I think we will all be scrutinizing such behavior even more from now on.

@ Epi - I'm back at a computer, so let's roll!

015.

Quoting Mongoose here but I'd like to address Epig and Mongoose.

First off, yes Mongoose, as I said I only self vote for selfish reasons usually. Mostly for prizes or for goofing around when I think or know I am not in any real danger. Though as Epig rightly pointed out, Self-voting is something that deprives us of a good deal of discussion, context, etc. And this late into the game I just can't fathom voting for oneself and being a civvie.

And @Epig - I'm not talking all that much anymore cuz I'm watching a podcast, and also I think I've taken up a good amount of everyone's time already. I'd like to give others the chance to blossom.

28

Linki - D'aw shucks thanks Nev.

[Mongoose]

Would you kindly tell us if you've changed your mind about bea, and what your current thoughts on boo and Bullzeye are? I've gone through your posts, and you don't seem keen on making cases- just reacting. I do not think that makes you bad...just kind of unhelpful. I'd also like to know what you think about Boats.

And what the hell? I get home from work and nobody wants to talk.

9

I have not changed my 'mind' about bea, which is to say that I have encountered no new objective evidence for or against her, and still consider her the best suspect.
I have my eye on Boo and Bullz for the same reasons, the timing of their votes for Aces on the BWT kill.

I'm not 'making cases' left and right, no. There's not much information to make them with, and I'm not keen on making crap up just so I can talk about it.
In general, I view making cases with weak or no evidence to be detrimental to the civilian cause in the long run -
someone has to do it to give the baddies impetus to make mistakes and reveal information, but we have quite an abundance of wave-makers already in play.

So yes, I'm "kind of unhelpful" for the time being. My helpfulness will gradually increase as more information becomes available,
and I am able to make more numerous/confident observations about voting patterns, vote timing, and kills (not that I'm the only one doing that this game).

I'm talking even less than I would, because DH seems be given to posting the same kinds of analysis that I like to.
His analysis seems spot-on to me (suspicions against myself aside); I'm feeling pretty sure DH is a civ.

8

I agree that DH is civ. Yeah, you'd have to be insane to research, synthesize and post such in-depth analysis. It could be a good tactic to cover up your badness, but that seems unlikely.

016.

[Mongoose]

And @Epig - I'm not talking all that much anymore cuz I'm watching a podcast,

What podcast are you watching? I listen to Stuff You Missed in History Class when I'm at my night job (which is where I am now). It's good sometimes but also kind of cloying. </nosy>

[DharmaHelper]

And @Epig - I'm not talking all that much anymore cuz I'm watching a podcast,

What podcast are you watching? I listen to Stuff You Missed in History Class when I'm at my night job (which is where I am now). It's good sometimes but also kind of cloying. </nosy>

Rooster Teeth podcast.

[Epignosis]

Would you kindly tell us if you've changed your mind about bea, and what your current thoughts on boo and Bullzeye are? I've gone through your posts, and you don't seem keen on making cases- just reacting. I do not think that makes you bad...just kind of unhelpful. I'd also like to know what you think about Boats.

And what the hell? I get home from work and nobody wants to talk.

9

I have not changed my 'mind' about bea, which is to say that I have encountered no new objective evidence for or against her, and still consider her the best suspect.
I have my eye on Boo and Bullz for the same reasons, the timing of their votes for Aces on the BWT kill.

I'm not 'making cases' left and right, no. There's not much information to make them with, and I'm not keen on making crap up just so I can talk about it.
In general, I view making cases with weak or no evidence to be detrimental to the civilian cause in the long run -
someone has to do it to give the baddies impetus to make mistakes and reveal information, but we have quite an abundance of wave-makers already in play.

So yes, I'm "kind of unhelpful" for the time being. My helpfulness will gradually increase as more information becomes available,
and I am able to make more numerous/confident observations about voting patterns, vote timing, and kills (not that I'm the only one doing that this game).

I'm talking even less than I would, because DH seems be given to posting the same kinds of analysis that I like to.
His analysis seems spot-on to me (suspicions against myself aside); I'm feeling pretty sure DH is a civ.

8

I understand where you are coming from. However, I think by now there is plenty of evidence out there, even if it leads us to the formation of a poor conclusion (again, apologies to llama). Once again, what do you think about Boats and his apparent slip (I don't think you addressed that)?

11

[Mongoose]

Maybe the other teammate(s) aren't necessarily veteran players, and maybe wouldn't think that a self-vote would tip us off.

@ Dharma - Interesting thoughts on the selfishness of self-voting. I think we will all be scrutinizing such behavior even more from now on.

@ Epi - I'm back at a computer, so let's roll!

015.

Quoting Mongoose here but I'd like to address Epig and Mongoose.

First off, yes Mongoose, as I said I only self vote for selfish reasons usually. Mostly for prizes or for goofing around when I think or know I am not in any real danger. Though as Epig rightly pointed out, Self-voting is something that deprives us of a good deal of discussion, context, etc. And this late into the game I just can't fathom voting for oneself and being a civvie.
.

It does seem to be an unfair to fly below the radar. On one hand, we've been all talking about self-voters a lot in this game, but at the same time it's a good way to not draw a specific person (or group's) ire.

@ Epi - Good points about the inordinately high number of self-voters. I reread the role descriptions with that in mind to see if anything popped out at me. It didn't, other than I think it may be Andrew Ryan's cronies.



017.

[DFaraday]

Self-voting is an easy way to avoid suspicion as well as avoid making a case on anyone. On Day 1 I wouldn't see anything wrong with it, but after that it gets shady.

[Epignosis]

Maybe the other teammate(s) aren't necessarily veteran players, and maybe wouldn't think that a self-vote would tip us off.

@ Dharma - Interesting thoughts on the selfishness of self-voting. I think we will all be scrutinizing such behavior even more from now on.

@ Epi - I'm back at a computer, so let's roll!

015.

Quoting Mongoose here but I'd like to address Epig and Mongoose.

First off, yes Mongoose, as I said I only self vote for selfish reasons usually. Mostly for prizes or for goofing around when I think or know I am not in any real danger. Though as Epig rightly pointed out, Self-voting is something that deprives us of a good deal of discussion, context, etc. And this late into the game I just can't fathom voting for oneself and being a civvie.
.

It does seem to be an unfair to fly below the radar. On one hand, we've been all talking about self-voters a lot in this game, but at the same time it's a good way to not draw a specific person (or group's) ire.

@ Epi - Good points about the inordinately high number of self-voters. I reread the role descriptions with that in mind to see if anything popped out at me. It didn't, other than I think it may be Andrew Ryan's cronies.



017.

Have you expressed an opinion about Boats and that slip up? Some people seem cool about dismissing it. I can't imagine why that is the case.

12

[Tangrowth]

Hey everyone, only have a second right now, just wanted to let you all know that the night post will be late because I have a booked next couple of hours. I apologize, I know as players how preferable it is to have consistent posts and I prefer that as well. Hopefully I can be around and have it up between 7:30-8:30PM EST (not really sure, but I would best guess it will fall in here somewhere).

[Mongoose]

Quoting Mongoose here but I'd like to address Epig and Mongoose.

First off, yes Mongoose, as I said I only self vote for selfish reasons usually. Mostly for prizes or for goofing around when I think or know I am not in any real danger. Though as Epig rightly pointed out, Self-voting is something that deprives us of a good deal of discussion, context, etc. And this late into the game I just can't fathom voting for oneself and being a civvie.
.

It does seem to be an unfair to fly below the radar. On one hand, we've been all talking about self-voters a lot in this game, but at the same time it's a good way to not draw a specific person (or group's) ire.

@ Epi - Good points about the inordinately high number of self-voters. I reread the role descriptions with that in mind to see if anything popped out at me. It didn't, other than I think it may be Andrew Ryan's cronies.



017.[/quote]

Have you expressed an opinion about Boats and that slip up? Some people seem cool about dismissing it. I can't imagine why that is the case.

12[/quote]

Epi: I have, but I don't mind reiterating it. I will admit that I am starting to blend boo and Boats in my head, so I went back and skimmed over the last few pages to refresh my memory on who did what. I mainly talked about Boats in my 12th post or so in the event.

Boats is not getting off the hook that easily with me. I definitely think there's more to the picture. The self-vote alone would be flagging, but I definitely thought the other bit was super fishy.

Here's what I said earlier to supplement what I've said above:

"Whomever mentioned Boats' having BTSC was definitely right on the money. You can skim that many posts in 12 minutes, but his post showed he had retained and synthesized the information. As Epi (et al.) pointed out, that's just not feasible in 12 minutes. However, I don't think it's just BTSC; I think he may be a lurker. He might be in this forum, reading this very post RIGHT NOW.

018.

[Nevinera]

I understand where you are coming from. However, I think by now there is plenty of evidence out there, even if it leads us to the formation of a poor conclusion (again, apologies to llama). Once again, what do you think about Boats and his apparent slip (I don't think you addressed that)?

11

I didn't, no. I think it's a little suspicious, but hardly damning - I could easily skim 3-4 pages and select some other people's opinions to voice in 10 minutes.
I actually think that getting the skinny from teammates and formulating a safe opinion post afterward would take *longer* than skimming and tossing out some parroted ideas.

9

[Epignosis]

Quoting Mongoose here but I'd like to address Epig and Mongoose.

First off, yes Mongoose, as I said I only self vote for selfish reasons usually. Mostly for prizes or for goofing around when I think or know I am not in any real danger. Though as Epig rightly pointed out, Self-voting is something that deprives us of a good deal of discussion, context, etc. And this late into the game I just can't fathom voting for oneself and being a civvie.
.

It does seem to be an unfair to fly below the radar. On one hand, we've been all talking about self-voters a lot in this game, but at the same time it's a good way to not draw a specific person (or group's) ire.

@ Epi - Good points about the inordinately high number of self-voters. I reread the role descriptions with that in mind to see if anything popped out at me. It didn't, other than I think it may be Andrew Ryan's cronies.



017.

Have you expressed an opinion about Boats and that slip up? Some people seem cool about dismissing it. I can't imagine why that is the case.

12[/quote]

Epi: I have, but I don't mind reiterating it. I will admit that I am starting to blend boo and Boats in my head, so I went back and skimmed over the last few pages to refresh my memory on who did what. I mainly talked about Boats in my 12th post or so in the event.

Boats is not getting off the hook that easily with me. I definitely think there's more to the picture. The self-vote alone would be flagging, but I definitely thought the other bit was super fishy.

Here's what I said earlier to supplement what I've said above:

"Whomever mentioned Boats' having BTSC was definitely right on the money. You can skim that many posts in 12 minutes, but his post showed he had retained and synthesized the information. As Epi (et al.) pointed out, that's just not feasible in 12 minutes. However, I don't think it's just BTSC; I think he may be a lurker. He might be in this forum, reading this very post RIGHT NOW.

018.[/quote]

I did read that- I apologize. I still confuse you and Hedgeowl. We got bird on a couple of slips, so maybe Boats fell into the same...well...boat!

13

[Nevinera]

Can we stop with the broken quote tags? It's really confusing me >.<

[Snow Dog]

I understand where you are coming from. However, I think by now there is plenty of evidence out there, even if it leads us to the formation of a poor conclusion (again, apologies to llama). Once again, what do you think about Boats and his apparent slip (I don't think you addressed that)?

11

I didn't, no. I think it's a little suspicious, but hardly damning - I could easily skim 3-4 pages and select some other people's opinions to voice in 10 minutes.
I actually think that getting the skinny from teammates and formulating a safe opinion post afterward would take *longer* than skimming and tossing out some parroted ideas.

9

I disagree, he could have got the whole update from his team mates even before he logged on here. So Boats is definitely one candidate I will be looking at. Him and Vomps for trying to screw us up in posts counts. A possible baddie tactic.

9

[Epignosis]

I understand where you are coming from. However, I think by now there is plenty of evidence out there, even if it leads us to the formation of a poor conclusion (again, apologies to llama). Once again, what do you think about Boats and his apparent slip (I don't think you addressed that)?

11

I didn't, no. I think it's a little suspicious, but hardly damning - I could easily skim 3-4 pages and select some other people's opinions to voice in 10 minutes.
I actually think that getting the skinny from teammates and formulating a safe opinion post afterward would take *longer* than skimming and tossing out some parroted ideas.

9

I don't think he could easily skim 140 posts and summarize each conversation (let alone reflect on the nuances) in 12 minutes. I even showed him the math:

You read about 140 (3.5x40) posts in twelve minutes (720 seconds)? That's little over five seconds per post, never mind the time it took to write your post.

You didn't read shit.

And even so- the poll ended 45 minutes after his post saying that he needed to "catch up." He had time.

14

[Nevinera]

I disagree, he could have got the whole update from his team mates even before he logged on here. So Boats is definitely one candidate I will be looking at. Him and Vomps for trying to screw us up in posts counts. A possible baddie tactic.

That timeline actually hadn't occurred to me, and it does make sense.
Your second point is just silly though, the impact of that kind of shenanigan is really low,
and vomps is like that normally.

I don't think he could easily skim 140 posts and summarize each conversation (let alone reflect on the nuances) in 12 minutes. I even showed him the math:

You read about 140 (3.5x40) posts in twelve minutes (720 seconds)? That's little over five seconds per post, never mind the time it took to write your post.
You didn't read shit.

And even so- the poll ended 45 minutes after his post saying that he needed to "catch up." He had time.

You have a good point. I don't think it's fully convincing, because I don't think he actually had to read all of them, or 'synthesize' them himself; people were already doing that in the thread for him.
But the timing is still pretty impressive.
It didn't occur to me for some reason that he might have been talking in chat before logging into the forum.

10