[END] Turf Wars: Battle of the Hosts

[Scotty]

Okay so sig basically claimed Messagero. Thoughts?

That's the only thing holding me back.

Sig, answer me honestly here: which Team would you fight for...Sock or Daisy?

[Scotty]

Okay so sig basically claimed Messagero. Thoughts?

That's the only thing holding me back.

Sig, answer me honestly here: which Team do you fight for...Sock or Daisy?

Hypothetically, of course...

[Scotty]

Scotty, I want you to make a case for yourself. You don't even have to focus on defenses against accusations you've faced, just put together a convincing case that you are town. Show me the best things you have to offer in your post history, votes, and whatever else. Why should I believe you?

Maybe in the night phase. Maybe. I've got a lot on my plate and I didn't expect to spend it in defense mode. I'll do my best.

[Epignosis]

Okay so sig basically claimed Messagero. Thoughts?

I don't put stock in such things.

[Prisoner 509378]

Scotty, I want you to make a case for yourself. You don't even have to focus on defenses against accusations you've faced, just put together a convincing case that you are town. Show me the best things you have to offer in your post history, votes, and whatever else. Why should I believe you?

Maybe in the night phase. Maybe. I've got a lot on my plate and I didn't expect to spend it in defense mode. I'll do my best.[/quote

You might not see the night phase.

[Prisoner 509378]

I could see sig being truthful about it. I'm influenced at least on some level. Which is why breadcrumbing is cheating. Don't do it.

Maybe he's the seemer and is setting up that flip.

[Quin]

Okay so sig basically claimed Messagero. Thoughts?

What do you think? He's been sending you and your jail buddies messages hasn't he? Were those messages something you see sig writing?

[Prisoner 509378]

I actually feel like a rule has been broken and that it would be wrong of me to continue this discussion. Which is a problem because my read is influenced on multiple people right now.

[Dom]

Nope

I voted for Scotty on the basis of the points I made in this post. It's not as strong of a point now that the Gleam wagon slowed down and two others popped up, but I still get a word feeling from how he used his vote today.

I even considered that post when I came to that conclusion. Scotty wasn't in any danger from that vote. Turnip's justification is pretty hard to get behind.

Turnip should say a thing so I know whether I'm barking up the wrong tree.

Also, my internet SEEMS to be working now. I'll just post if I can from here on and if I can't I won't go through too much trouble.

linki: why indeed.

Civs don't need to distance
Baddies do.

When I made my first point Quin was still thinking he could be that role?

You didn't make a point about Scotty. You made a point about sig. Quin voted for sig. The connection is obvious.

?

Do you think if I was mafia I'd do something so stupid?

It was a jokey point to make Quin look wrong, you're reading way to deep into it.

This is yikes AF

I don't understand the role claim, but am annoyed there seems to be one.

[Quin]

Nope

I voted for Scotty on the basis of the points I made in this post. It's not as strong of a point now that the Gleam wagon slowed down and two others popped up, but I still get a word feeling from how he used his vote today.

I even considered that post when I came to that conclusion. Scotty wasn't in any danger from that vote. Turnip's justification is pretty hard to get behind.

Turnip should say a thing so I know whether I'm barking up the wrong tree.

Also, my internet SEEMS to be working now. I'll just post if I can from here on and if I can't I won't go through too much trouble.

linki: why indeed.

Civs don't need to distance
Baddies do.

When I made my first point Quin was still thinking he could be that role?

You didn't make a point about Scotty. You made a point about sig. Quin voted for sig. The connection is obvious.

?

Do you think if I was mafia I'd do something so stupid?

It was a jokey point to make Quin look wrong, you're reading way to deep into it.

This is yikes AF

I don't understand the role claim, but am annoyed there seems to be one.

civs with BTSC do.

[Tangrowth]

Your host is not pleased.

[Tangrowth]

These rules should be 100% clear:

RULES & PROCEDURES

Rules
4. No role outing of yourself or anyone else. This includes all statements of fact regarding your or someone else's role, such as "I am The Don" or "Spacedaisy is Beat Cop", etc. This game is open setup role madness and incompatible with role outing, thus making it not fun when players engage in it. Absolutely don't do it.
5. No dumping information you received from the Host (whether role-related or not) into the thread. This includes statements that more often are seen as implications, rather than statements of fact (role outing). An example would be declaring that "I have reasons to believe MovingPictures07 is Beat Cop" without elaborating. If you suspect someone to be a certain role or alignment, use in-thread reasons to back up your assertion or speculation, even if your reasons are sourced from information you gained outside of the thread. If you are unsure if what you are about to say constitutes info dumping, please PM the hosts first before making the post. If you fail to do this and your post does violate information dumping, then you and your faction will be punished.
6. You may, however, alignment claim truthfully or falsely, although it is not necessarily recommended.

Role outing and strong role hints of any kind will not be tolerated. They potentially break the game.

[Epignosis]

I guess I've been wasting my time.

[Dom]

Nope

I voted for Scotty on the basis of the points I made in this post. It's not as strong of a point now that the Gleam wagon slowed down and two others popped up, but I still get a word feeling from how he used his vote today.

I even considered that post when I came to that conclusion. Scotty wasn't in any danger from that vote. Turnip's justification is pretty hard to get behind.

Turnip should say a thing so I know whether I'm barking up the wrong tree.

Also, my internet SEEMS to be working now. I'll just post if I can from here on and if I can't I won't go through too much trouble.

linki: why indeed.

Civs don't need to distance
Baddies do.

When I made my first point Quin was still thinking he could be that role?

You didn't make a point about Scotty. You made a point about sig. Quin voted for sig. The connection is obvious.

?

Do you think if I was mafia I'd do something so stupid?

It was a jokey point to make Quin look wrong, you're reading way to deep into it.

This is yikes AF

I don't understand the role claim, but am annoyed there seems to be one.

civs with BTSC do.

No, they don't. Ask SVS.

[Tangrowth]

sig, you've broken the role outing rule blatantly here. We were tempted to kill you at the time you made your "Message" post, but it went essentially unnoticed, and we decided to be lenient on the matter. It's too late for further leniency now that your statement has seriously affected the game.

I'm not kidding, folks, please don't role out or hint to the point that anyone can figure out your role, whether it's true or not. We won't tolerate it. It's not fair play. At all.

[Tangrowth]

Day 9

sig has been modkilled (for breaking the rules). He was Messaggero, a member of The Daisy Crime Syndicate.

It is still Day 9.

[Tangrowth]

sig's place on the poll has been changed to reflect his death. Please move your votes off of him before the end of the phase.

[Sloonei]

My vote fell back onto Soneji, oops.

[Dom]

MP was there a typo earlier?

[Tangrowth]

Lastly (sorry for spamming), please note that sig was Daisy Messaggero. I accidentally put Sockface at first, apparently having had a brain aneurysm.

Proceed with the mafia hunting and such.

[Dom]

thx

[Quin]

These rules should be 100% clear:

RULES & PROCEDURES

Rules
4. No role outing of yourself or anyone else. This includes all statements of fact regarding your or someone else's role, such as "I am The Don" or "Spacedaisy is Beat Cop", etc. This game is open setup role madness and incompatible with role outing, thus making it not fun when players engage in it. Absolutely don't do it.
5. No dumping information you received from the Host (whether role-related or not) into the thread. This includes statements that more often are seen as implications, rather than statements of fact (role outing). An example would be declaring that "I have reasons to believe MovingPictures07 is Beat Cop" without elaborating. If you suspect someone to be a certain role or alignment, use in-thread reasons to back up your assertion or speculation, even if your reasons are sourced from information you gained outside of the thread. If you are unsure if what you are about to say constitutes info dumping, please PM the hosts first before making the post. If you fail to do this and your post does violate information dumping, then you and your faction will be punished.
6. You may, however, alignment claim truthfully or falsely, although it is not necessarily recommended.

Role outing and strong role hints of any kind will not be tolerated. They potentially break the game.

Can I still post my role-guess for Epi using game-based facts without breaking any rules?

My internet absolutely shit itself, and I'd have had this posted like 20 minutes ago if I could. I'm basically done but I'm gonna wait on MP.

[Epignosis]

On the one hand, I hate that I wasted my time, and on the same hand, I hate that I was wrong.

[Tangrowth]

thx

Yeah, that's my bad, not sure what I was thinking. Then I read back over my post and realized, 'Hey, that's not right...' :P

[Tangrowth]

These rules should be 100% clear:

RULES & PROCEDURES

Rules
4. No role outing of yourself or anyone else. This includes all statements of fact regarding your or someone else's role, such as "I am The Don" or "Spacedaisy is Beat Cop", etc. This game is open setup role madness and incompatible with role outing, thus making it not fun when players engage in it. Absolutely don't do it.
5. No dumping information you received from the Host (whether role-related or not) into the thread. This includes statements that more often are seen as implications, rather than statements of fact (role outing). An example would be declaring that "I have reasons to believe MovingPictures07 is Beat Cop" without elaborating. If you suspect someone to be a certain role or alignment, use in-thread reasons to back up your assertion or speculation, even if your reasons are sourced from information you gained outside of the thread. If you are unsure if what you are about to say constitutes info dumping, please PM the hosts first before making the post. If you fail to do this and your post does violate information dumping, then you and your faction will be punished.
6. You may, however, alignment claim truthfully or falsely, although it is not necessarily recommended.

Role outing and strong role hints of any kind will not be tolerated. They potentially break the game.

Can I still post my role-guess for Epi using game-based facts without breaking any rules?

My internet absolutely shit itself, and I'd have had this posted like 20 minutes ago if I could. I'm basically done but I'm gonna wait on MP.

As noted in Rule 5., it's totally acceptable if players use in-thread reasons to speculate on why players might be certain roles. For example, you can say "I think MovingPictures07 might be such and such role because he's strongly defending Spacedaisy and it seems they might have BTSC given this post" or whatever.

The problem arises when players make statements about their role that otherwise would not be surmised by normal thread behavior. Like, sig's "Message" statement couldn't possibly be interpreted as anything other than "I am heavily hinting that I am the Messaggero".

Thanks for asking. Hope that clarifies. If not, let us know.

[Quin]

Long story short: Turnip is the don, and Epignosis is his consigliere. I refuse to back down on the idea that Turnip is the don, because there's no evidence to support any other conclusion. I feel good about this, and I actually went through both of their interactions with one another and nothing has put me off of this in the slightest.

Starting with Turnip:

Spoiler: show

I don't like that Epignosis has 3 votes. I don't like it one bit

Sloonei is supatowning, which means he's either one of our most valuable assets or an undercover cop Only time will tell I suppose. He defended his Nerolunar read really well, but I don't like that he's criticizing Epignosis for not agreeing with his read, as if Nero's civvieness is obvious.

I don't really know who I want to vote for. I'm not a fan of any of the major wagons but don't have strong baddie reads on anyone.

A blatant opposition for the notion of lynching or suspecting Epi. Nothing concrete to back this up either.

Spoiler: show

Turnip if you don't know who to vote for then just vote for me.

Well that doesn't sound very productive. I'd like to use my vote to lynch someone to save Gleam, ika and Epignosis, I feel pretty good about all three of those dudes. Ika a little less so after I saw a post from someone (Luffy, I think) comparing his style here to a game he was bad, but I do find ika's style kind of fun and for some reason I get a cruel joy from watching Epi react to his typos. But who is worth lynching in their stead? That's my dilemma.

Is there a good reason I should vote for you, or is this some sort of sting operation?

He wants to save Epi here.

Spoiler: show

Here's my list.

Golden
S~V~S
sig
thellama73
Nerolunar
Silverwolf
Quin

a2thezebra
indiglo
agleaminranks
ika

Serge
Sloonei
Metalmarsh89
Soneji
Draconus

chaindeath
Epignosis
Boomslang
Dragon D. Luffy

Matt 2.0

Epignosis places a brilliant shade of orange here. I believe that this sudden change is a disassociation tactic.

Spoiler: show

Black Rock - town
Boomslang - po-po
chaindeath - town
Draconus - fuzz
Epignosis - town
ika - pig
indiglo - town
Nerolunar - town
Prisoner 509378 - town
Quin - town
S~V~S - town
Scotty - town
Serge - I can't remember anything he's said
sig - town
Silverwolf - town
Sloonei - town
Soneji - town
thellama73 - town


You can see my dilemma. I'm clearly wrong about at least a few folks.

Flippity-floppity flip-flap-flop

Time to move onto Epi, where most of the meat is.

Spoiler: show

I wanted to go over the Long Con voters yesterday, but I had other stuff to do.

Turnip Head (12), Silverwolf (13), sig (18), a2thezebra (19), Serge (23), Quin (25) 23%

Turnip Head first became suspicious of LC here and enthusiastically encouraged people to lynch him. I don't get the impression that that enthusiasm was phony.
In contrast, Silverwolf's vote was, for my tastes, weak and decidedly unenthusiastic.
a2z admitted to voting to save sig (and accused Silverwolf of being bad in the bargain).
Serge likes "emergency sig," whatever that is.
Quin admitted to actually saving sig, but the vote for LC was cast begrudgingly.

ika
9
Quin (5), Nerolunar (6), agleaminranks (11), Soneji (12), Serge (14), RadicalFuzz (16), Enrique (23), Long Con (28), sig (29) 31%

Only Quin and Serge from the earlier list voted to lynch ika Day 2.

As far as I can gather (some of the quote tags are messed up), Quin voted ika for what he later decided were cultural differences (a change facilitated by sig), and then voted ika again because ika was being arrogant and not giving Quin anything to work with. Correct me if I'm wrong in that assessment, but if that's the case, I don't know what to make of it.

Serge's post I'm going to quote rather than link:

I like thellama73's in-depth post about why he thinks Luffy is a cop. I don't necessarily agree with it but that amount of perception doesn't reek of scum to me. If he held on to just the "this game is hard to win for cops" thing, I may have voted for him.

I think ika is acting like a very naughty deer caught between the headlights. I honestly don't remember the case against gleam anymore, and the one against Epignosis half-built on his meta, which I don't take stock on.

Um, someone tell me how to vote.

ika

Does that work?

Serge: You characterized ika as "a very naughty deer caught between the headlights." I won't give you an A for figurative language (what the hell does that even mean?), but what I want to know is this: How is "emergency sig," which you liked, different or similar to "very naughty deer caught between the headlights ika" Day 2? In more detail than strange similes, what led you to vote ika Day 2 and LC Day 3?

Because if sig is bad, I think you should be next.

We get a nice soft defense for Turnip here (I underlined it because quoting that looks like a incomprehensible mess of hyperlinks)

Spoiler: show

My controller ran out of batteries during sudden death. I blame Simon.

This proves to me that Silverwolf has no credibility in reading you. She abandoned you for Draconus and now me. If you are bad, she can't read you.

Q.E.D.

It doesnt prove shit. I mena i already poitned out that your town read on me is based on bad reasons. SIlver knwos me better. she would knwo that i would not hesitate ot bus either. She has full credibilty to ready me. your continued discredit is very compelling and showing the true side of you

I don't have a "town read" on you though.

so your scum reading me? then you should have no problem voting me

This proves to me that Silverwolf has no credibility in reading you. She abandoned you for Draconus and now me. If you are bad, she can't read you.

Q.E.D.

Yeah,this.

And Jackie Chan meme is best meme

not this at all. want to knwo a pro tip about my meta? im a heavy busser and silver knwos that i will vote with her even if its a scum buddy so if she thinks its scum and i were to eb scum, its a moot point to try to devine that.

ika, if everyone knows what you do when you are bad, then shouldn't you...you know...vary it up?

not really, i change some here and there form time to time but most times i enjoy people knowing my metas so i can challange it

You want to know what I see in Epi's post. Wanting to discredit my ability to read ika and also try to turn things around on me in a way to discredit all my reads in this game. He's not voting me. He's not calling me scum. He's just trying to discredit everything I do and try to keep the focus on me and off of my reads.

It's scum 101.

I don't see why I have to think you're bad to think you're wrong.

its the discredintg on it is the thing, there is 0 town motivation ebhind it. you can easly jsut say "i think hes town so i disagree"

This proves to me that Silverwolf has no credibility in reading you. She abandoned you for Draconus and now me. If you are bad, she can't read you.

Q.E.D.

It doesnt prove shit. I mena i already poitned out that your town read on me is based on bad reasons. SIlver knwos me better. she would knwo that i would not hesitate ot bus either. She has full credibilty to ready me. your continued discredit is very compelling and showing the true side of you

What does Epignosis stand to gain, as a bad guy, by discrediting Silverwolf on her baddie read of you? He is protecting you from her.

PIssing me and silver off. When he is using persoanl relationship reasons to discredt it (as silver jsut pointed out with his post) i will have a problem regardless of my alginemt

No. The moment someone comes in and says she can read someone well because of their relationship is the moment she invites scrutiny on that claim. Well, she's being scrutinized. If you don't want your relationship called into question, don't make it part of the game.

I still don't get your beef with it. Jesus. I never said you guys didn't love each other.

my beef is that the reason we can read is more then jsut the relationsship, its our histroy, out metas, our very playstelys and how we interact. when you narrow it to the relatipnship itself we get pissed. you could of mention the interactions, the plays we have made, hell most of what we have actualy said it more meta based then relationship based so.....

This proves to me that Silverwolf has no credibility in reading you. She abandoned you for Draconus and now me. If you are bad, she can't read you.

Q.E.D.

Yeah,this.

And Jackie Chan meme is best meme

No, not this.

I have read ika 100% correctly in every game we've played. He draws town far more often on ms.

And this tells me you're prone to recency bias as well.

Is ika bad or not?

Why or why not?

ill let silver answer

Going to use "sarcastic orange" for once in my life:

I don't think Turnip Head is good. I don't think Turnip Head is bad. So I should vote for him. Nah.

"I think he's town so I disagree."

But I don't (necessarily) think you're "town." I questioned SilverWolf's ability to read you. That's precisely what I called into question. "I think he's town so I disagree" wouldn't have accomplished my purposes. Whether she likes it or not, Silverwolf can't read you as well as she says she can. That's important for the civilians to know, and I'm sorry I didn't go about that business sooner.

Finally, "Meta" is bullshit. Anyone can fake it with some effort.

This is where it gets good. Epi uses Turnip for his metaphor specifically. Why? Turnip wasn't part of the conversation. I take this as a role hint, whether intentional or not.

Spoiler: show

Silverwolf...again with the D-word.

You asked a question, and I answered it. Personally, I think you discredited yourself yesterday, but I'm not getting into that again.

If I said to you, "Hey Silverwolf, I can read Turnip Head extremely well. I've been playing with him for years. We've been bad together once, but we've had lengthy conversations about the way he plays when he's bad. He's not posting a lot, so that must mean he's bad," would you believe me?

Why or why not?

And he does it again.

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Epignosis, I have no idea what you think of Turnip Head. Do you think anything of Turnip Head?

Turnip Head has a tell when he's bad. When I say that, I don't mean it's a definitive, "Turnip Head is for sure Mafia" tell, but it is something very specific I've observed him do several times when he is bad.

I haven't seen it here yet. Take that for what it's worth.

On the other hand, I read your exchange with Turnip Head and thought your point about the inconsistency regarding significant others was a good one. Turnip Head says you're twisting his words and taking them out of context. On the surface, I don't agree with him, but I'd rather look at his posts and be the judge of that myself.

Context or not, his ika vote was shit, as was most of them.

As of now, Turnip Head isn't on my list.

He claims that Turnip has a 'tell'. I didn't know whether I bought it or not then, thinking back to when I first read it, but it makes me feels good about their connection. Sort of like the idea of dismissing the suspicion for Turnip.

The next few posts throw a bit of shade at TH. The context of those posts don't paint him as scum, it's just simply 'weird'. I'll skip going through pages to quote them because there's a few and my internet connection is currently out as I'm writing this. Thinking back to when Epi said that when he's scum, he lists taking out people with BTSC as a priority (Here's my explanation, Dom), I would be inclined to agree with him. And in agreeing with him, I also think that when he's civ and has BTSC, he'd take precautions to make sure the same thing doesn't happen to him. It's definitely disassociation.

Spoiler: show

Assuming llama was specifically chosen for the kill by the chief, my immediate inclination is to assume it was intended to frame Quin, who has enough enemies remaining in the thread that him just killing a threat isn't a strategically viable solution as a baddie. indiglo being killed was likely the result of her being well out of lynch territory.

If you're a highly-trusted player and you're not dead, I recommend you re-calibrate your reads. Someone is probably letting you stick around because they expect you to do something detrimental to your team.

I don't agree with your assumption. thellama73 vouched smugly for TH and without much reason. TH wasn't lynched. I'm flying with simple explanations and will not be voting for Turnip Head.

Still amazed you're still around.

More feel-goods about Turnip. We're in the blatant opposition mode again, and it's being reciprocated between the two.

Spoiler: show

Gonna change to turnip, because now I'm worried I'm voting him based on inactivity. Mind you, under normal circumstances I'd be keen to vote out inactives. It's a matter of principle.

I don't understand this post. Can you clarify?

Spoiler: show

A general observation, before I go farther: Scotty's posts are riddled with little hints.

I find it kind of silly that even our own Don doesn't know who the police are. I mean, they got badges and blue costumes and such. Why is this so hard?

What can I say? I'm lost. My Don has given me nothing of substance and I feel like I should have caught more at this point.

When Diiny got lynched:

Coming in hot!

Not a terrible lynch result, at least, but still sucks to lose a civ.

The people who are happy with the lynch.

Not sure if happy is the emotion I'm seeing. Maybe ambivalence. I'm in the camp of "well, it could have been worse.."

Are you upset?

Personally, I don't put much stock in such business as this (there are a handful of people who, if they hint, I'm sold, but I'll never tell who they are). Thought I'd raise the point anyway.

This puts me off voting for Scotty. After Turnip was lynched, I went through his posts and it clicked that Scotty might be Turnip's consigliere. This backs up that idea a little.

Changing my vote to sig for now.

As of now, I don't agree with this.

Why would you believe that Scotty would have BTSC with Turnip Head? How do you know which Don Turnip Head would be?

Epi was quick both times to call me out on my thoughts on Turnip when I thought he was scum, and when I thought he and Scotty were paired. But he didn't have anything to see in any of the other times I brought up him being a don. It tells me that he doesn't oppose that idea, and he'd only be that sure if he and Turnip were paired.

[Epignosis]

As much as I'd love the credibility you're giving me, you've got me all wrong. I don't have BTSC.

[Quin]

oh bobba

[Epignosis]

oh bobba

Unless something revelatory appears, I don't plan on voting you. Your process was logical even if your conclusion was wrong. I can respect that.

[Quin]

Whether or not you're being honest, I still don't scum read you, because I don't believe you

I moved my vote back to Scotty, by the way. Join me, Epigogonaonognnosus.

[Epignosis]

New idea.

Soneji wants me lynched.

Soneji hasn't voted me.

Soneji

Why wasn't your vote on me?

[Quin]

Soneji still needs to answer my questions from like 2 days ago.

[S~V~S]

I am not gonna lie; while I have been busy with site mechanics stuff, I have also kinda been avoiding here becasue I hate case making lol.

Here is one post, from Rocky & Bullwinkle, where I explain my thoughts on why I thought Scotty was bad in LOST (and he was); he was bad here, too, but he played it differently in R & B. In the current game he much more reminds me of his LOST AGain game. What is mot interesting here is his reaction to suspicion.

Look familiar?

Of the people with votes, I think Scotty DOES have a baddie game. I am not sure I am seeing it here.

Can you elaborate?

It is hard to explain; he just *feels* jabbier to me when he's bad, not unlike how I view LC when he's bad; he makes little one liner pokes at people for reasons I don't fathom. Which isn't to say *I* have to fathom everyone elses thoughts. But in LOST Again I read Scottys posts with my forehead scrinched up and one eyebrow almost in my hairline. In LOST Again, I could pretty much pull him out of a hat after a few posts. I am not seeing it as much here. He danced around it a bit more, IMO. Here he is pretty much sticking to his guns. He looks totally different to me than he looked in that game, and more like he does in the games I have seen him mislynched.

BUT God knows I could be wrong, though; see the last 2 lynches. My civ game always goes off the rails when I have to defend before I get a chance to settle in to the thread.

@Bea, yeah I kinda agree. But even if Llama were to allow votes for Matt (and in the past he has not cut replacements slack iirc) I would feel better letting him settle in. Replacing into a role taking suspish is not easy.

Which reminds me, I don't know about anyone else, but I thought Suspish-Gate in GOC was hilarious.

I appreciate you breaking down my baddie game dynamics. I legit wouldn't know since I've only ever been Mafia twice, but I'm sure next time I'm Mafia I'll mix it up. I am not Mafia this game, but love that my "baddie game" meta is being referenced as a reasoning to vote and not vote for me.

Since the poll ends tonight, I have no choice. I will have to pull odd quotes here & there. If a certain Sock stops sendingme PMs maybe I can play his game

[S~V~S]

Again,cases not my thing. I read a post someone wrote, I get an epiphany. Trying to reconstruct an epiphany is HARD.

Here are the two posts from LOST Again where Scotty tried pushing against me (he seems to like this kind of thing when he's bad; tell me, Scotty, do I need a restraining order?) and I just knew he was bad. Becasue I knew *I* wasn't, you see? And knowing I am not bad, his case is the bullshittiest bullshit. With all due respect, bullshitty bullshit is what baddies do.

Voted fer Matt.

Matt, who is definitely not on your team other than Zebra?

Matt, what do you think of my friend Scotty?

Scotty, what do you think of SVS?

I think SVS has been slinking through the past few days. I haven't rea d back on her because I've been a little preoccupied today, but I don't remember her other suspicions taking flight besides for Matt. Which is why I really think discovering Matt's alignment is important.

SVS, you do realize that if you lied about trying to kill me, I will never, ever, trust you in a mafia game again.

The semantics of this is astounding to me, because if Typh was targeted and SVS does turn out to be bad, it would come completely out of left field.

On one hand, SVS seems like a woman of her word when it comes to promises and such, but IMO if you are barred by these imaginary rules of semantics as a mafia, you are giving yourself more opportunities to fail. I have been Mafia exactly once and as Mafia I may make promises that I won't be able to fulfill. This is getting meta, but on the surface SVS doesn't seem like the type of person that would break a pre-game vow like that. I would like to think she wouldn't.

But.

Hypothetical:
If she were bad, what better way to build civ cried than being involved in Typh's death? Notice I said involved, not committed. Maybe if she didn't want to go through with the kill, and chose one of the other Mafia members to do it, she would be absolved of any wrong doing.

I could be reading too much into that, but when people make statements that "oh, I would never do that" or "I'm an honest and noble person as a baddie, I hate being Mafia" it makes me tense up. Could just be a personal play style but if I am ever Mafia again I think anything is fair game.

Again, SVS, I think highly of you as a person, but I don't buy for a second if you were bad that you wouldn't do what you have to do to win.

Hemade two posts this game, the first where he kinda buriedmy name in themiddle of the post, but a clear thrust at me, followed by a more cohesive direct post. I think since he knew I could read him, he shadowed me all game to keep me from looking at him (and it worked) made all those posts about "Why aren't we dead" and "We're almost the same person", and then he turned on me. The baddies have to mislynch to win with only one bad team. Not a bad idea to keep one in reserve especially since people like to think I am bad.

[Epignosis]

We're traveling today to visit nijuukyugou and do fun non-Internet things. I won't be around.

[Dom]

not sure if i should vote for scotty or chaindeath

[S~V~S]

Scotty

[Prisoner 509378]

Moving to Soneji at least for the moment. I think Epignosis needs a thorough review in light of sig's flip, given the potential that his 7 cycles of railroading was total scapegoating.

My vote is flexible. I'll be around later.

[S~V~S]

Nope

I voted for Scotty on the basis of the points I made in this post. It's not as strong of a point now that the Gleam wagon slowed down and two others popped up, but I still get a word feeling from how he used his vote today.

I even considered that post when I came to that conclusion. Scotty wasn't in any danger from that vote. Turnip's justification is pretty hard to get behind.

Turnip should say a thing so I know whether I'm barking up the wrong tree.

Also, my internet SEEMS to be working now. I'll just post if I can from here on and if I can't I won't go through too much trouble.

linki: why indeed.

Civs don't need to distance
Baddies do.

When I made my first point Quin was still thinking he could be that role?

You didn't make a point about Scotty. You made a point about sig. Quin voted for sig. The connection is obvious.

?

Do you think if I was mafia I'd do something so stupid?

It was a jokey point to make Quin look wrong, you're reading way to deep into it.

This is yikes AF

I don't understand the role claim, but am annoyed there seems to be one.

civs with BTSC do.

No, they don't. Ask SVS.

I missed this. That post you are quoting is hella confusing. What am I being asked?

[Sloonei]

Sig is still voting for Epi and I assume we're just supposed to ignore it. I could see myself joining him though. What do other people think of him?

[S~V~S]

I am not convinced.

[Dom]

I missed this. That post you are quoting is hella confusing. What am I being asked?

I was referencing that I think you tend to make non-baddie BTSC obvious.

Civs don't need to distance. Baddies do.

[Sloonei]

I am not convinced.

Not convinced of what?

[Soneji]

I've been thinking about the capo/crew team more than anything else lately. Given their role, they should have a task to do today, yes? I'll be keeping an eye out and hopefully I can get some town reads from that hypothesis.

Did anything ever come of this Quin? Its fairly late in the game, so the more semi-confirmed town members we have the better at this point. Process of elimination our way to victory.

At day 1 I think we should be addressing even the minor concerns. I'm aware that in the long run the traitors are going to be triggered regardless, but even so, I think we should be trying to delay that risk for the safety of the dons.

I've got no problem with it being addressed, but I think the proposals being made in the thread were over-reactions to a very minor point and there is no need to continue discussing it beyond what has been said. So I should stop saying things about it now.
How's your first Big Game going so far?

I feel like this game could go on for weeks, I'm curious to see how the dynamic changes over such a long period.

How are things at this beginning period, though? Which players have caught your eye?

ika, for reasons I have previously stated.

Wilgy has also caught my eye for his abnormal posts. Someone called him out on it before, but the 'oink's he is shoving into his posts are just really...weird. My initial thoughts were that he is one of the capo/crew and his mission is to present himself as scum in his posts, but I need to dwell on that further. At this point it is a leaning town read, but I am also really confused by him.

If Wilgy had been a cop, I would very much have read this post as you being mafia. How exactly would "present yourself as scum" be defined with when the only outcomes are success and failure? With Wilgy being a civ, this comes off more as keeping an open mind and you stuck to looking for clues as to the capo/crew situation.

@Gleam

Did you actually post civ reads on anyone though? Other than me? Please show because I think I missed those.

I didn't. I don't have solid reads on people apart from how they normally act in other games.

I think Matt is being a bit more quiet than normal, I think I remember him being a little more pandering for discussion than usual. But I have no reason to suspect him as being bad.

Scott and Epignosis are both acting pretty typical, even if they're somewhat low posters for the game right now.

The only other people I have played games with before (Mongoose, llama, zebra) have all been pretty inactive in the game right now. I'm inclined to say civilian just because their contributions seem normal.

I think S~V~S has a false read on me but I don't have reason to suspect her as bad.

Agreeing with what you are saying doesn't equal reading you as a civ.

SVS and Sloonei pointed out something I hadn't yet noticed. I then read your posts and concluded that indeed, you were saying a lot without actually getting yourself involved in the actual game (hunting baddies).

When we're this early in the game and far more likely (statistically) to lynch a good guy, I'm more focused on minimizing civilian deaths than actively trying to suss out the police. That's just my strategy. You can agree with it or not, but that's what makes the most sense to me. Granted, once a day or two goes by and we have some patterns to examine, then the baddie hunt needs to become the main focus. If I'm still being noncommittal at that point, you can criticize me of not getting involved all you want. But I've certainly been participating in the discussion. Going all gung-ho and throwing accusations left and right isn't the only way to get involved.

What exactly do you mean by this? Are you saying you'd prefer not to lynch anyone today?

Ideally, I think it would be best if no one got lynched the first day.

Think of this mathematically. I'm of the firm opinion that no one has enough concrete evidence on anyone else to make more than, say, a 10 or 20% educated guess on alignment. We're close to lynching at random here. It's no different from a first day lynch. Statistically then we are more likely than not to lynch someone good. Then we wait for the results of the night actions to formulate more solid theories.

These are the two scenarios at this point:

1. The lynch vote ends up being civilian. The night phase happens, the Police Chief (unless they target the Don) is probably going to succeed in arresting someone. We're down two noble mafiosos/mafiosas.

2. The lynch vote ends up being police. Unless the Chief is lynched (a one in thirty chance), some mafia is probably going to be arrested. One baddie is down, we're down one good guy.

The first scenario is more likely to happen by a factor of 5. I agree that if a baddie is lynched this early, yes, it will go a long way towards helping the mafia teams in the long run. But. You risk civilian death as well. Some people might argue that it's worth the risk of killing a civvie if the chance of taking down even one baddie is there, I just don't agree with that strategy. Maybe it's a matter of personal taste to want to be more restrained. If we were able to somehow avoid lynching someone Day 1 then we would most likely be down one civvie but we also wouldn't be down two, probably. But that's not part of the rules, so I have to come up with my best educated guess.

I'd like to hug you. No lynches are fantastic.

I'm on page 12 right now and so far there's nothing that has convinced me to change my vote. We'll see how it goes. I think there's like, 30 minutes of day left so I'll be fast.

Maybe its my bias for being looked down upon strongly for advocating No Lynch in my early days of playing NF mafia but I've found that those who show themselves enthusiastically supporting no lynch are town. Its usually the ones that condemn the players who did it that are mafia.

Hey folks I'd like to remind you that there are six friggin cops so manipulation of tight lynches should be easy. I suggest y'all get your shit together and join me in voting Diiny because he's clearly the right choice

Or come to a consensus yourselves. It's been a way hectic past couple days for me and I'm not really following the game as well as I could be, and I can't say I have many reads besides being freaked out by Diiny's over-eagerness (supatownin?) and general vagueness to his actions.

jeez dudes the game just started why are you being so demanding already

btw wilgy's plan is terrible and the don would have to be a silly billy to go through with it

I hope I'm not alone in seeing this as though it was written extremely half-assed. He's pushing for a Diiny vote, yet advocating that we should be lynching whoever we want to lynch. On top of that, he immediately goes to present some weak justification to go with his hardcore push. It just seems extremely contradictory. He says that he's 'the right choice' but he's not said anything of value in the thread that might lead me to think that. Same with Wilgy's plan. There's absolutely nothing in the thread by him that would explain why he disagrees.

One of those rather sound logic posts I was referring to. Its unfortunate though that Enrique and his successor are the type of town who come off blatantly scummy, as the contradictions pointed out are spot on. His next two posts are also on pressuring Enrique with similarly valid points.

I generally liked that you put some genuine thought into your suspicion of Scotty based on the Tranq lynch, there is a clear progression of thought there that makes it seem unlikely for mafia to be trying to fake a case. That you didn't pursue it to a pointless end d1 is also a point in your favor.

On your hesitation on the Fuzz vote, I do think you had a point that his supposed contradiction was more a twist, in that he didn't want to discuss the actual situation that existed based on Ika/Silverwolf's posts regarding other and their thinking that they were being "persecuted" for being new. That doesn't mean he didn't have any individual thoughts on either and wouldn't vote them. He flipped scum but that doesn't mean the reason the bandwagon was started was based on solid evidence, though others might have had more reasons on why they suspected Fuzz than just his Ika vote. You really were in the thick of things the majority of d1/d2, so your resistance to a lynch not based on the pressure you applied and reasoning that has had more discussion around it feels genuine.

You have a lot of posts and I don't feel its really necessary for me go through all of them. Reading your first eight pages worth on your post history has reconfirmed why my gut read of you was town. You have pressured anyone without pause while also not attempting to buddy anyone, despite the suspicion on you. You keep an open mind and are willing to change up where you apply pressure if your current avenue is yielding no results, while still keeping the suspicion on that player for a later time. You have a willingness to talk about game mechanics, though you generally explain your thought process in a way that comes off very organic.

[Sloonei]

Hey soneji, you aren't voting for anyone yet. Who will you be voting for?

[Soneji]

I have been deciding between Epi and chaindeath. Sig's flip I would say has more firmly put me in the Epi camp, based on his constant tunneling of a player who to my understanding is lynched a lot as town for being unusual. Low hanging fruit is what we would call him on NF.

Epignosis

[Sloonei]

Interesting. I am trying to decide between you and Epi.

[Prisoner 509378]

My main beef with Soneji is that he supported my fake case against Epi, but I'm considering that he was ensnared by misfortune rather than anything alignment-indicative (given that it's consistent with his general suspicion of Epi).

I've one question, Soneji. You suggested earlier, if I understood you correctly, that you were waiting to go after Epi because you didn't want to give him time to "shape up". If so, why wait this long, until the town game is teetering over a cliff?

[Soneji]

You misunderstood. My talk of keeping things close to the vest was based on you bringing up later posts by Epi to defend against his earlier reactions. I was stating that while later info shouldn't be discounted, posts should also be looked at in a vacuum.

Epi has only been a fringe suspect most of this game. I couldn't ignore his continued pursuit of sig though and earlier slight pings I had earlier on Epi drew me to finally look into his post history more.

[nijuukyugou]

We're traveling today to visit nijuukyugou and do fun non-Internet things. I won't be around.

This is the first I'm hearing of this