[DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
Moderator: Community Team
Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
RIOT
RIOT
RIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT
RIOT
RIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT
Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
Betcha the other half of the game is complaining that the prisoner system is too easy.
Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
Enjoy your welcome!Prisoner 319159 wrote:Wat am I doing? Who is 331? Should I be concerned? I'm a nice guy.
Prisoner 541395 wrote:New Prisoners today:
Prisoner 319159
Prisoner 714386 - joined us in Group 1 yesterday
Prisoner 850132
Prisoner 958153
Welcome new prisoners!
Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
Ok. I hear what you are saying. And I am still going to say this, not to offend, just to point out an issue in that way of looking at things.Spacedaisy wrote:We understand your frustration and we did not expect so many players to be completely uninterested in essentially getting rezzed. That said, we built this game with specific dynamics and we can't unduly influence the game. Additionally, we set it up so that no show players can be either shanked (should a challenge be failed) or mod killed (after a prison break). Furthermore, you were given a freebie extra shank last night on a person who was barely contributing the minimum and desperately wanted out of the game. I don't think we have been in the least unfair. We have already mod killed four players for you.Prisoner 419713 wrote:mod if players are inactive for 72 hrs can they jsut be auto eliminated from now on? its unfair that we have to suffer due to anothers inactivity
I do appreciate all those of you who are participating and I'm sorry for those that haven't.
This game was built with a specific dynamic, and you don't want to unduly influence it. I totally understand that from a host's perspective. As it stands, that very specific dynamic IS being unduly influenced by non-participatory players, as you've noticed. It is not working the way you planned, because you didn't imagine players wouldn't participate. That means the specific dynamic has been broken by those players by not participating. Just as it would be broken if people were in here role-outing themselves, or identifying themselves. Would those people be modkilled for not following the participation rules?
Also, as it stands, we have absolutely NO WAY to win this challenge today. NO WAY. So why should any of us participate? If the idea here is to encourage players to participate... it would help if the endeavor were not pointless. I like to participate, and I see many of my fellow prisoners like to participate also. But participating in a fruitless endeavor makes even ME not want to participate. If this specific game dynamic only works when all people participate... then it is currently not working. Which makes it patently futile / unfair / broken / impossible.
Again, no judgment here. I just wanted to be clear that I am not just being a whiner because things aren't going the way I want them to. I have really enjoyed the game up to this point. It has been very fair, very balanced and very thought provoking. I would even say, I have had the most fun this game that I've had in a mafia game in a very long time. This is the first time all game I've experienced anything that might need mentioned, or adjusted slightly. And of course, it is up to you both as hosts to decide what (if anything) is to be done about it. I also think it's important that I explain why I see an issue with it, more than just whining "it's not fair" and stomping off.
Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
I was really scratching my head reading that.Prisoner 277058 wrote:Yo I'm 277 not 227 Fuck.
Very well written!
Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
I'm not usually identified by a barcode.
Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
Prisoner 813142 wrote:Okay, in the spoiler section below is the updated prison log. It marks all the comings and goings. DO NOT VOLUNTEER INFORMATION AS TO WHO IS OR MIGHT BE WHO! That will get you modkilled. We have to wait to fill in those blanks if and or when we can initiate another prison break.
If you want a log of participation in challenges or specific data regarding a particular inmate, please let me know. I will do my best to provide it from my notes.Spoiler: show
Wow, awesome P92!!! I am going to analyze that, and it compare it to all my notes. So if I am understanding you correctly, even though I arrived more recently, I am not allowed to share any additional knowledge or updates to your knowledge?
I will instead, use your beautiful records to update mine, I suppose. I think you were the prisoner who made me realize immediately that it must be important to keep my own records in here. So I started doing that, and now I'm really glad. So thank you for that!
Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
EBWOP - I mean P813, not P92. Apparently I'm not used to identifying people by barcodes either.
Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
Let's just suck it up and vote, fellow prisoners. Nothing we can do about the rules.
Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
Prisoner 483934 wrote:Let's just suck it up and vote, fellow prisoners. Nothing we can do about the rules.
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Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
That's a load of bollocks. For my first two challenges we were being challenged as a collective. For the foreign language challenge as well as this one, we're expected to meet expectations that everyone knows cannot be met. Not everyone participates, that has always been how it's been and that will always be how it shall be. You know this challenge is unfair garbage.MovingPictures07 wrote:Essentially, it means even 1 no show will sink you, yes.Prisoner 126993 wrote:How on Earth is the person voting to be shanked gonna even show up to vote themselves?MovingPictures07 wrote:Evening, prisoners!
Your next challenge:
All prisoners must cast their vote in the shank poll, and all votes must be cast for the same player to be shanked, including the player to be shanked.
Happy shanking.
LOL wut?
I guess we fail then?
Assault
Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
We've already lost. Best to spend the next 48 hours being happy.
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Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
I've already protested. All I can do now is chill out and hope the no-show is willing to show and also lynch his or her self.
Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
I am now wondering if any of the future, already planned challenges will be winnable. If many of them require participation across the board, I would like to know that now, so I can just cut my losses and move on with my life. Any challenge that requires all people to participate will intrinsically be un-winnable. If any of the future planned challenges fall into that category, can you at least give us the heads up so we can jet?
Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
Though to be fair so far only 50% of the living people have voted.
Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
Dat irony when MP won't modkill
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Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
Ditto.Prisoner 541395 wrote:I am now wondering if any of the future, already planned challenges will be winnable. If many of them require participation across the board, I would like to know that now, so I can just cut my losses and move on with my life. Any challenge that requires all people to participate will intrinsically be un-winnable. If any of the future planned challenges fall into that category, can you at least give us the heads up so we can jet?
Assault
Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
Prisoner 483934 wrote:Let's just suck it up and vote, fellow prisoners. Nothing we can do about the rules.
Sure there is. I've got multiple ideas just on my own. I ain't gonna be part of no Stanford Prison Experiment. Look at the numbers, there are more Prisoners than hosts.
But I'll wait to hear back from the hosts before I make a decision for myself.
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Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
Out of curiosity... MP, what happens if we fail this challenge? I mean, we're voting to shank someone right? And usually, the penalty for failing a challenge is that the next day... we shank someone? So, since we can't make the challenge work due to a no-show, can't we just fail and then shank them tomorrow?
At worst, it makes today a lost cause, and that... could be worse?
At worst, it makes today a lost cause, and that... could be worse?
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Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
Sorry, that sounded muddled in the end. It's a lost cause in that we can't shank a non-poster, but it's a null day in the sense that the day just, by my reading, will be a nothing. No one dies, we lose a challenge, we then shank tomorrow. So yeah, we postpone being able to do anything but... that's better than it could be, right?
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Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
Incidentally, anyone think the Warden must have been imprisoned into our prison and subsequently killed? He hasn't been seen in a long-ass time...
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Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
Why would no one die? The person with the most votes will die, regardless of whether or not you pass your challenge. The challenge is simply to do it wholly and unanimously. Win and you achieve a prison break, fail and there will be another day tomorrow in which to try your hands at a challenge and shank another problem player. No, all the challenges are not full participation required. The challenges are designed for a mix of participation requirement and other requirements with varying difficulty.
Spoiler: show
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Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
So the non-poster will still die? That's okay, then, but I see what you mean about the prison break, I didn't realize that this would have been a third win in a row had we managed it... shit, yeah that really does suck, tbh.
Fuck me.
Because even if one of us volunteers to die for the cause, the no-show kills the challenge... I'll respect your decisions, as always, I know how hard you both work at modding these games, but I will say that the odds of the prison being 100% full of participators was probably pretty low, so this challenge was, sadly, in hindsight, probably doomed to wreck any chance we ever had of a prison break around this point in the game.
Fuck me.
Because even if one of us volunteers to die for the cause, the no-show kills the challenge... I'll respect your decisions, as always, I know how hard you both work at modding these games, but I will say that the odds of the prison being 100% full of participators was probably pretty low, so this challenge was, sadly, in hindsight, probably doomed to wreck any chance we ever had of a prison break around this point in the game.
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Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
Ah, well. Boys, we've been through worse. It is what it is. We shall kill off this non-poster, and regroup for the subsequent challenge!
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Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
you need three challenges, not three in a row. You have two, the next time you pass one you have your break out. Time invested in the previous wins such as the continuous posting is not wasted, those wins remain valid.
Spoiler: show
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Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
That certainly takes some of the sting out of this! So really, we still kill off a non-poster, we just have to delay trying for our third win for a game-day. And like that, I'm back to my original... this could be worse.Spacedaisy wrote:you need three challenges, not three in a row. You have two, the next time you pass one you have your break out. Time invested in the previous wins such as the continuous posting is not wasted, those wins remain valid.
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Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
I think we should also get a Prison Break if we fail 3 challenges in a row
Supervisor
Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
I understand the frustration being expressed about seemingly unwinnable challenges but this challenge is very winnable given the task itself. Tasks based on intentionality of action are winnable challenges. The variable element is the motivation of the players in the challenge. It's not that a challenge is unwinnable, it's that players are unreliable.
Challenges requiring full participation aren't necessarily designed for failure because the full participation task is completely out of the hosts' hands. The action required is. There have only been a few challenges where the task itself could be called designed to fail. The hosts even said that they expected us to concede the "post every 10 minutes" challenge but we won that damn challenge and set a few posting records in doing so. The two challenges involving guessing could be seen as designed to fail because they lack intentionality and rely on lucky guesswork.
Point is, we should not get mad at the hosts for the challenges. A core group of us have proven to be committed to exceeding expectations and the hosts have probably had to step up their challenges to meet our level of awesomeness. We should have expected challenges to get harder the further along we go. It would naturally get harder the more prisoners there are because the larger the group, the less predictable the behavior.
Oddly enough, this flips that old adage on its head. Don't hate the game, hate the players.
Challenges requiring full participation aren't necessarily designed for failure because the full participation task is completely out of the hosts' hands. The action required is. There have only been a few challenges where the task itself could be called designed to fail. The hosts even said that they expected us to concede the "post every 10 minutes" challenge but we won that damn challenge and set a few posting records in doing so. The two challenges involving guessing could be seen as designed to fail because they lack intentionality and rely on lucky guesswork.
Point is, we should not get mad at the hosts for the challenges. A core group of us have proven to be committed to exceeding expectations and the hosts have probably had to step up their challenges to meet our level of awesomeness. We should have expected challenges to get harder the further along we go. It would naturally get harder the more prisoners there are because the larger the group, the less predictable the behavior.
Oddly enough, this flips that old adage on its head. Don't hate the game, hate the players.
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Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
I'm not hating the players or the game overall, I'm hating these challenges. How can you say that it's the players being unreliable rather than the challenge being unwinnable when that obviously isn't the case? A challenge that banks on every single player being at least somewhat unreliable is by default an unwinnable challenge.Prisoner 813142 wrote:Don't hate the game, hate the players.
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Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
Look, guys, we're not changing the challenge. Daisy and I spent a ridiculous amount of time crafting this game for you all, and continuously spend a ridiculous amount of time hosting it every week. We planned the challenges as a mix of various tasks and honestly didn't expect the prisoners to pass nearly every single one; prison breaks were designed to be well-earned. Furthermore, I didn't count on players putting 110% into the main game and then basically giving up once they "die" and go to prison. Normally, people are begging for something to do when they die, especially when there's a chance at a resurrection. Ironically, for the most part, it's been those who never entered the main game that have fought way harder (in general) in prison than those who were originally in the main game. As time has gone on, especially recently, there have entered exceptions to that rule, which have made me happy. But otherwise, I'm frankly disappointed in the fact that certain players have no-showed in the main game, and even much more disappointed that active players in the main game have no-showed for this portion of the game.
I know you're frustrated at inactives; as any of you who have ever hosted should be able to empathize with me, I couldn't possibly be more frustrated about them. I didn't tell Golden and DDL, two of the most active players by far in the main game, to not even participate in this part of the game. That was as disappointing to me as you can imagine, but they both had RL stuff going on, and there was nothing I could do to force them to participate in a portion of the game that I thought everyone would be more than happy to participate in.
Nonetheless, I don't appreciate the whining. It's not what I want to hear when I've spent this much time crafting a unique mechanic where otherwise all of you would just be dead and have nothing to do. If you really want to complain, contact the MoD, thanks. Otherwise, this is a conversation to have at the postgame discussion.
I know you're frustrated at inactives; as any of you who have ever hosted should be able to empathize with me, I couldn't possibly be more frustrated about them. I didn't tell Golden and DDL, two of the most active players by far in the main game, to not even participate in this part of the game. That was as disappointing to me as you can imagine, but they both had RL stuff going on, and there was nothing I could do to force them to participate in a portion of the game that I thought everyone would be more than happy to participate in.
Nonetheless, I don't appreciate the whining. It's not what I want to hear when I've spent this much time crafting a unique mechanic where otherwise all of you would just be dead and have nothing to do. If you really want to complain, contact the MoD, thanks. Otherwise, this is a conversation to have at the postgame discussion.
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Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
Furthermore, I can't express how much I appreciate those of you who have been active and enjoyed these activities. To those of you who are frustrated, I'm sorry and I understand, but I don't feel there's anything either of us should do to alter the game.
Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
Aw crud. Well, this one has to apologize for being inactive in the last challenge. It's been rather difficult for me to keep up with, well, personal matters. Trying to keep this as not sinister as possible. It's probably only fair that this one should get lynched for failing to be a good player.
With that in mind, and everyone already committed, I'll go out trying to redeem myself as much as possible. It is better for this one to die and let his teammates have a chance of escape than for all of the wrongfully imprisoned civilians to suffer.
Votes self.
With that in mind, and everyone already committed, I'll go out trying to redeem myself as much as possible. It is better for this one to die and let his teammates have a chance of escape than for all of the wrongfully imprisoned civilians to suffer.
Votes self.
Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
The challenges ARE the game in prison. Don't hate the game, hate the players. There are always "mooches" who will put forth minimal effort and ride the coattails of the efforts of the few. That is life. That's what we have shank polls for. You cannot cure apathy; you can only shank it. At least the hosts have provided us a mechanism for dealing with the deadbeats. Let's just do our best and rally for the next challenge. We've still got a shot at one more prison break before the game ends. Let's work for it and shame the non-participants later. Another prison break will be our equivalent to victory. Use your anger and frustration and turn it into determination just like we did with the "post every 10 minutes" challenge.
Telling me that a challenge is unwinnable is like telling us all that we can't do something. In the immortal words of John Locke, "Don't tell me what I can't do!"
Telling me that a challenge is unwinnable is like telling us all that we can't do something. In the immortal words of John Locke, "Don't tell me what I can't do!"
Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
The fact we can break w 3 wins and not 3 in a row is very helpful to know.
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Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
Yeah, not sure where that misunderstanding came into play, so apologies for that. It's definitely just 3 in general, so whenever you all pass a challenge again, you will break out in the subsequent period, even if it's today.Prisoner 126993 wrote:The fact we can break w 3 wins and not 3 in a row is very helpful to know.
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Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
The first challenge also involved all of us being active, and we still won that. That one was a lot harder than this one.
People should really stop whining in my opinion.
People should really stop whining in my opinion.
Supervisor
Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
Precisely. 640, if anyone else whines, you have my permission to light them on fire.Prisoner 640326 wrote:The first challenge also involved all of us being active, and we still won that. That one was a lot harder than this one.
People should really stop whining in my opinion.
Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
And what do you know? We only need five more prisoners to vote and we will succeed. Chin up jailbirds. There is still hope for us.
Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
We still have over 24 hours to go and we just need votes from the following prisoners:
Prisoner 413022- original
Prisoner 650829- original
Prisoner 792787- joined Day 8
Prisoner 714386- joined Day 9
Prisoner 850132- joined today
I would be surprised if 413 or 650 miss the vote. 792 took part in the foreign language challenge, so there is hope there. 714 and 850 could be the weak links, if I had to guess.
Prisoner 413022- original
Prisoner 650829- original
Prisoner 792787- joined Day 8
Prisoner 714386- joined Day 9
Prisoner 850132- joined today
I would be surprised if 413 or 650 miss the vote. 792 took part in the foreign language challenge, so there is hope there. 714 and 850 could be the weak links, if I had to guess.
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Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
You've got yourself a dealPrisoner 813142 wrote:Precisely. 640, if anyone else whines, you have my permission to light them on fire.Prisoner 640326 wrote:The first challenge also involved all of us being active, and we still won that. That one was a lot harder than this one.
People should really stop whining in my opinion.
Supervisor
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Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
I think I followed the rules correctly.
Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
OK, Those of you who haven't voted, let's go!!
We need that 100%
We need that 100%
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Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
Also, Daisy and MP did a great job on this game.
Thank You!!
Thank You!!
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Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
You're a good man, 850. Four more and we rise above once again.
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Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
I was not asking for the challenge to be changed and my criticism was not meant to be taken at heart. All that I was reacting against was the notion that we should hate the players who aren't participating which I still feel is a ludicrous and offensive suggestion. Yes I am more than willing to shank non-participants but I do not feel that they we should start condemning them left and right.MovingPictures07 wrote:Furthermore, I can't express how much I appreciate those of you who have been active and enjoyed these activities. To those of you who are frustrated, I'm sorry and I understand, but I don't feel there's anything either of us should do to alter the game.
Assault
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Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
Wow, things are looking up!
Re: [DAY 10] Turf Wars: Prison Edition
OK, Not gonna get 100% due to nonparticipants so things are good I think.........fingers crossed.Prisoner 126993 wrote:OK, Those of you who haven't voted, let's go!!
We need that 100%
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