[END] Turf Wars: Battle of the Hosts

[Prisoner 509378]

Tinfoil theory that I want see come to fruition: the Prisoner is an insider working foe the cops. His role in this game was to take the families down from the inside. Like Leo. He has been steering us all in the wrong direction since he showed up. Like Leo.

I've thought a little about how awesome it would be if I was a convincted serial killer and y'all paroled me.

[Epignosis]

Tinfoil theory that I want see come to fruition: the Prisoner is an insider working foe the cops. His role in this game was to take the families down from the inside. Like Leo. He has been steering us all in the wrong direction since he showed up. Like Leo.

I've thought a little about how awesome it would be if I was a convincted serial killer and y'all paroled me.

It's happened before. Ask S~V~S.

[S~V~S]

Yeah one more fucking stupid thing I've done. Thanks for reminding me of that

[S~V~S]

Tinfoil theory that I want see come to fruition: the Prisoner is an insider working foe the cops. His role in this game was to take the families down from the inside. Like Leo. He has been steering us all in the wrong direction since he showed up. Like Leo.

I have literally been worrying about this for days and days and days. I just did not want to say it out loud

[Epignosis]

Yeah one more fucking stupid thing I've done. Thanks for reminding me of that

Never stupid. Always funny.

[Prisoner 509378]

S~V~S, how comfortable would you be with lynching Epignosis this phase?

[Soneji]

My cold hard logic is generally my strongest trait in general as town and it shows through in both my ability to scumhunt and deter lynches that lack solid evidence. I'm generally detached from any kind of emotional appeal and I won't back down from insulting players to get a rise out of them. The play that I'm most known for is biding my time until a lot of posts build up, normally near phase end on days 1 and 2, then striking with a tl;dr post with all my suspicions, usually catching out a large part of the mafia team.

Could you attempt to illustrate how you've applied this skill set to your more recent spurts of contribution to this game (presumably within your larger effort to show us what you're capable of as the elected champion of NF)? I don't want this to seem like busy work -- you have my attention in a meaningful way and it might turn the game over.

I had argued against Epi's faulty reasoning against sig and also disagree with recent his argument on Nero. I have argued against all these meta reasons that people keep bringing up to dismiss suspicion on certain players(Epi, Mongoose/Dom). I've made my case for Epi recently and my argument on Mongoose/Dom has been ever building. Offered my input where I could on things like Nero/CD potentially both being town and why I had a strong townread on Quin. I can't well have anything to show for my efforts if people refuse to trust me, no matter the strength of my argument.

[S~V~S]

S~V~S, how comfortable would you be with lynching Epignosis this phase?

When we went off of Nero, you said you wanted to lynch someone with the best likelihood of being bad; Dom or Eloh you said.

Where are the 85 posts & charts saying Epi is more likely to be bad than them?

[Prisoner 509378]

Soneji, the reason I asked you for these things is that I have a special understanding of what you described -- a will to take your skillset beyond its regular setting and show what you're made of. I'm more attuned to that mindset than you may know. I hoped that if you could illustrate, in a believable way, that you've truly been pursuing that, that I'd be able to see it for myself have it resonate with me. That's my strength as a townie -- the ability to recognize complex nuances in someone's delivery and in their emotion that say something meaningful about who they are in a Mafia game.

The verdict? I like what you've said here. I'm at least somewhat moved.

[S~V~S]

Like the posts you made showing all the relationships and Eloh & Dom were bad in like almost every scenario.

[Prisoner 509378]

S~V~S, how comfortable would you be with lynching Epignosis this phase?

When we went off of Nero, you said you wanted to lynch someone with the best likelihood of being bad; Dom or Eloh you said.

Where are the 85 posts & charts saying Epi is more likely to be bad than them?

I still want that. Epignosis seems to have almost conceded at this point though.

I only ask because of the Police Chief role. That's the one that can ruin town's chances even if we collectively identify every bad guy right now. I'm not opposed to a Dom lynch, and I haven't totally changed my mind either.

We have a lot of time though and I never stop thinking. Ever. Perhaps I think too much. But that's why I have so many posts -- it's all on the table at all times, and I want to hear from other people. I'm Mr. Teamwork. :P

[Epignosis]

I didn't concede shit. I did have to go help a brotha host just now. Also beer.

[S~V~S]

You don't feel like Mr Teamwork right now, tbh. I don't feel like a team at this minute. Soneji seems to be on your team now, lol.

It's always something, and it never ends with a dead baddie. Even if those other presumed baddies have not talked much, they have not missed many votes.

I was not feeling all that great about Epi, but the more you keep pushing the better I am feeling. Not sure why that is.

[Sloonei]

@Hosts: can yu confirm whether or not the loan sharks are still in play? We reciver notices from you early in the game but those have now stopped.

[Sloonei]

I moved my vote to Epi, by the way. Don't know if anyone noticed that and I forgot to announce it.

[Prisoner 509378]

You don't feel like Mr Teamwork right now, tbh. I don't feel like a team at this minute. Soneji seems to be on your team now, lol.

A lot of things are falling into place in my head, yes. That doesn't mean I'm definitely right and that's that though, which is why I continue to field discussion -- about everything I can think of. The game is on the line.

It's always something, and it never ends with a dead baddie. Even if those other presumed baddies have not talked much, they have not missed many votes.

You're right, and that's why I wouldn't outright say "let's definitely move from Dom to Epignosis now". It's in my mind because Dom is a double-replacement, which makes me wonder if that player slot has always been active in night phases -- but it's not unbelievable to think that it has.

I was not feeling all that great about Epi, but the more you keep pushing the better I am feeling. Not sure why that is.

The reason I keep asking you questions is that I value your input as a skilled townie who I know I can trust in this game. I don't know why you suddenly think I am some kind of questionable presence, but it's not necessary. I'm not trying to influence your play or tell you what to do -- I just want your input.

None of the work I've done for the civilian side was ever necessary. I did it because it felt owed, and I continue as such now.

[Tangrowth]

@Hosts: can yu confirm whether or not the loan sharks are still in play? We reciver notices from you early in the game but those have now stopped.

[S~V~S]

@Hosts: can yu confirm whether or not the loan sharks are still in play? We reciver notices from you early in the game but those have now stopped.

I am really pretty sure one of them is gone. I don;t know about the other.

And 509378,when I said before I was paranoid of you for days, I meant it.

I can be OK with Dom. I am not ready to go from "sure fire baddie" to "possible baddie leader"

[Prisoner 509378]

Y'all wanna know what I'm really after? What really drives my rage?

Death to the Warden.

[S~V~S]

I just want to get a good lynch.

[Soneji]

SVS have I wronged you in another life for you to be so hostile towards anything I approve of ?

I wonder if an event would take place if we killed the Warden.

[S~V~S]

You absolutely have not. I do think you killed some of my friends in this life though

[Nerolunar]

Linki - Epi I have been trying. After realizing it was not going to happen I started to bandwagon more and leave Chaindeath for when people were ready to lynch him. Or well, not leave him entirely as I have voted for him a few times at the beginning of day phases, but when no support came I have been switching to other wagons. my "against wasting votes" ideal came to fruition a few days in.

Epi what do you read Chaindeath as? Which possible scumteam combination do you think is the truth?

How did you start bandwagoning? You have never voted for a single lynched person. Your Day 6 vote was for sig, all by yourself. That was the Day ika got lynched with eight votes (whom you voted for Day 2). Boomslang had six votes. The Day prior you voted Boomslang, but you didn't vote for him Day 6.

I don't see how you throw up your hands on your top suspect only to say you started bandwagoning...when you never bandwagoned a Day in this thing.

I wanted sig lynched for ages, but I'm not going to make that happen by not convincing people to vote him. It eventually happened, even though the result wasn't what I wanted. If chaindeath is your top suspect, then why haven't you tried to get support for a lynch against him?

Well, I have been placing votes in advance due to sleep patterns on the pre-existing wagons at various day phases. Those wagons may not have gone through in the end but I have still tried to put my vote to use on the people who I was suspicious up who were a wagon at the time of my sleep. I have tried to get support for a Chaindeath lynch. I have also been afraid of pushing too hard and tunneling but I have announced my Chaindeath suspicion many times and asked people to evaluate him. No results.

If your alignment is the only thing you've been certain about, why are you willing to trust the Prisoner's assumption that SVS, Turnip, and myself are all town?

Because just as everyone else I think you guys have put up consistent town behavior. I trust the prisoner and his judgment too, so him trusting you settles it.

Nerolunar has gone to bed. I want full responses to what I've said. Nerolunar should be beyond willing to lynch chaindeath right now, but he's not. I want answers.

Wait what? I never said I was not willing to lynch Chaindeath. Its you guys who won´t lynch him, not me. We need to find one suspect and lynch target, and so far none of you believe it could be Chaindeath this phase. Im fine with Dom and Elohcin too, as long as we hit a cop.

~*~Hey townies, look at this post!~*~

We (civs/townies) absolutely cannot split our votes. We have to consolidate all of our votes today. To be a lonewolf voter is essentially to forfeit the game. Please please please get on board with whatever bandwagon we settle on.

Dom

[Epignosis]

Let's see.

chaindeath

[Sloonei]

I'm off to work until 4 with my vote still on Epignosis. It will probably change when I get home because you're all pansies.

[S~V~S]

Y'all wanna know what I'm really after? What really drives my rage?

Death to the Warden.

Just now when I reread this, I thought it said Death to the Walrus, lol.

I have tied my brain up into a knot over this. I will check in periodically and I will follow your vote, Sloonei, if 509378 & (hopefully) TH also do so. I don't want to be the fly in the ointment, but I intensely dislike feeling steered, and after a full nights sleep, I reread last nights thread, and I still feel that way. I feel like we are trusting people we should not trust. I feel that I no longer have any objectivity.

So I will go with the program votewise, but I don;t think I will have much more to add to the conversation other than angst & frustration, and the less of that the better

[Dom]

I think Dom's initial reaction is rather telling though. Instead of staunchly contesting me for essentially calling him a confirmed cop, he just acted like he didn't understand my methods. He should be fighting for his life and getting angry.

1) Don't really have time for that
2) Why shouldn't I want to know where you're getting your conclusion from so I can defend myself?

I was reading Dom's posts and I started to doze off. It's not you, it's me, Dom! But my hazy less-than-half-awake interpretation was that he's a baddie trying to hammer home this victory by finally breathing some life into a roster spot in this game that has been completely void up until he showed up (I commend him for his effort regardless of alignment. Thank you Dom). He's been vocal and appeared open minded, but I haven't seen a single word of him resisting any idea in the thread except for the suggestion that he might be bad, which he vehemently shoots down all the time. Other than that, he's just going along with any suspect that come up in the thread. His vote can go anywhere every day and he's leaving things open and using this to his advantage. Putting my vote on Dom.

Oh really?

Because I've been around since Day 7. I voted Turnip Head on Day 7, and so did you. I missed Day 8. I voted Scotty on Day 9. That's what you call following any bandwagon? I gave thoughts on both of these.

Tinfoil theory that I want see come to fruition: the Prisoner is an insider working foe the cops. His role in this game was to take the families down from the inside. Like Leo. He has been steering us all in the wrong direction since he showed up. Like Leo.

I've thought a little about how awesome it would be if I was a convincted serial killer and y'all paroled me.

It's happened before. Ask S~V~S.

lol

[Prisoner 509378]

Dom, it's all spelled out. You can only be town if certain other players have cop team mates that strike me as unlikely.

[Sloonei]

Y'all wanna know what I'm really after? What really drives my rage?

Death to the Warden.

Just now when I reread this, I thought it said Death to the Walrus, lol.

I have tied my brain up into a knot over this. I will check in periodically and I will follow your vote, Sloonei, if 509378 & (hopefully) TH also do so. I don't want to be the fly in the ointment, but I intensely dislike feeling steered, and after a full nights sleep, I reread last nights thread, and I still feel that way. I feel like we are trusting people we should not trust. I feel that I no longer have any objectivity.

So I will go with the program votewise, but I don;t think I will have much more to add to the conversation other than angst & frustration, and the less of that the better

To be clear, I am 100% on board with either Epi or Dom. My vote also will go wherever the votes are. Eventually.

[Prisoner 509378]

Nero, what is your answer to Epi's chaindeath vote?

[Dom]

Dom, it's all spelled out. You can only be town if certain other players have cop team mates that strike me as unlikely.

Well you're wrong.

And you wonder why I'm not sold on this game. I came in and after one day was told I was probably a baddie-- not because of anything I'd done, but rather, because you deduced it. Now you say there's no point in trying to change your mind.

I can't win here.

[Prisoner 509378]

Dom, it's all spelled out. You can only be town if certain other players have cop team mates that strike me as unlikely.

Well you're wrong.

And you wonder why I'm not sold on this game. I came in and after one day was told I was probably a baddie-- not because of anything I'd done, but rather, because you deduced it. Now you say there's no point in trying to change your mind.

I can't win here.

I never said that. You're putting words in my mouth.

[Dom]

Dom, it's all spelled out. You can only be town if certain other players have cop team mates that strike me as unlikely.

Well you're wrong.

And you wonder why I'm not sold on this game. I came in and after one day was told I was probably a baddie-- not because of anything I'd done, but rather, because you deduced it. Now you say there's no point in trying to change your mind.

I can't win here.

I never said that. You're putting words in my mouth.

"It's all spelled out"
Yeah, you pretty much did say that. Sloonei has literally used the phrase "you can't win" in regards to me.

[Prisoner 509378]

Dom, I hereby officially welcome you to try to change my mind. Please do.

[Prisoner 509378]

You could start by sharing your perceived team of four cops.

[Nerolunar]

Nero, what is your answer to Epi's chaindeath vote?

Its very clever. I think he wants to provoke a reaction from me to try to shift the wagon back on me. I have two choices:

1) Vote for Chaindeath, decreasing the lead on Dom and splitting the wagon. Not a good choice.
2) Not vote for Chaindeath and get accused by Epi for being indecisive, probably causing votes to come back on me. Epi will say something like: "There is a wagon for chaindeath now, why don´t you vote for it? This is what you have been waiting for." and frame me when I don´t.

So far Im keeping my vote on Dom. I don´t want Epi to manipulate me.

[Prisoner 509378]

I'm going to look deeper into the Nero/chain dynamic and come to a decision on that, because my other reads largely hinge upon it. For the sake of argument, I'm going to assume that one of them has been lynched and flipped cop. I will judge the other for his interactions to decide whether they make good cop team mates.

Day 1:

chaindeath said nothing about Nero on Day 1. He voted for Long Con.

Spoiler: show

He is so good at typing.... He didn't do it properly and he offers his sincerest apologies. Long Con

This looks somewhat sheepish to me.

Why does typing mistakes and then apologising for it indicate baddie alignment? Chain I would like you to explain too. I see nothing scummy in LC´s behavior so far.

Nero was unimpressed by chain's Day 1 vote for Long Con, suggesting it was "somewhat sheepish".

Spoiler: show

I think Im going to vote for Chaindeath. He voted for LC based on nothing earlier today, when the only thing LC had posted IIRC was an argument against the everyone-vote-for-everyone plan. Still getting mixed signals from Gleam, but I will let him slide this round.

See y`all tomorrow.

Nero voted for chain on Day 1, and it was his final vote. This was the second vote for chain after Scotty, and the 20th final vote overall. The two larger wagons on Day 1 were for DrWilgy and Diiny, but each of them were bolstered by two late votes beyond 20th overall. This tells me that when Nero placed his vote for chain, chain was still a viable lynch possibility and that this vote wasn't quite avoidant of the wagons that ended up taking over later. If they're team mates, it was bold of Nero to drop this vote as he departed Day 1, since it appears chaindeath really could have ended up lynched. I think this is in part why llama thought chaindeath was being scapegoated on Day 1.

This is perhaps affirmed by something Nero said later in the game when forced to answer for his vote:

Spoiler: show

4) After my vote, Chaindeath was on 3 votes and the rest of the "wagons" were at 2 each. I was on the main wagon at the time of my vote, though that did change radically as the day progressed. Im always asleep at the EoD due to time zones.

Day 2:

chaindeath said nothing about Nero on Day 2. He voted for DDL.

Spoiler: show

I don't like Nero's vote what so ever. It seems like he picked a player who already had two votes. I think one of the other people with two votes is a cop, and Nero switched his vote to save them.

That´s a little far-fetched. We are supposed to catch baddies here, and in that moment Chaindeath seemed to me like the most scummy player. I was not happy with any of the major wagons, so I went with him. Do you believe both me and Ika(and the other players with two votes) are cops then? If so, why didn´t you vote for any of us?

I do agree with some of the above posters that Slooneis vote did seem like an act to save a teammate.

You sound very defensive here.

I said I think someone was mafia I didn't specifically said it was you, and I don't recall mentioning Ike at all so I find you bringing him up to be odd. You barely mentioned Chaindeath and your reason for voting him was weak. He was also one of the players who already had two votes so yes it does seem like you just put your vote down on someone who had votes.

linki: Zebra's silence is also strange and she said I was a civ read. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

Right here you said that any of the people with two votes is a cop. I used Ika as an example of one of them because I could not remember any of the others.

I voted Chaindeath for the same reason you believe my vote to be weak: his vote on LC. There was almost no reasoning at all and it pinged me pretty much. Imo he did redeem himself in his last post and I am not pinged by him as much as before.

Right now I don´t know who to vote for. How much time until the day ends?

On Day 2, Nero answered to an accusation that he had placed a weak vote. He asserted that it was chain's "weak vote" that had motivated his vote in the first place, but also granted that chain had "redeemed himself in his last post", which is a significant concession.

Nerolunar, please return to this moment in the game and explain what chaindeath post you were talking about then and why it made you feel better about him if only for a moment.

Nero's Day 2 vote ended on ika, placed 6th overall (quite early).

Day 3:

Spoiler: show

Nero, chaindeath thinks that the posting of pictures kinda makes Ika seem like a townie. There is still a secret roll and with one of the crew members dead from daisy's crew there are 5 other people who could have some other mission assigned by their don. It seems like a bad thing to base a baddie read on since there seems to still be some mystery around in the role pool.

Chaindeath just wanted to make sure that Nero was aware of it because He thinks the police don't have a role that would do something like that. Also he welcomes back Matt

A little neutral discussion of ika's picture-posting gimmick.

Spoiler: show

Chaindeath just wanted to make sure that Nero was aware of it because He thinks the police don't have a role that would do something like that. Also he welcomes back Matt

Im a little pinged by you. You only show up to defend yourself, and I don´t see any desire to solve the game.

Who do you read as town/scum?

He wouldn't say he has no desire in solving the game, more so that he is unsure as he mentioned in his previous post. Currently he is reading Ika as town. Maybe sloonie, indiglo as town also. He is unsure but Sig and DDL still make him uncomfortable in the baddie sort of way. He would like to see zebra, Black Rock, serge, and llama post a bit more so he could get a read on the outliers.

Nero returned to his pingy perspective of chaindeath, and this exchange shows chain defending himself against that. Nero's prod resulted in chain providing a number of reads. The reads were all vague and unsupported, but they're still reads and that has some analytic value. It's a decent look that Nero squeezed this out of him. It's a lot to ask one's own baddie team mate to spew useful information into the game thread. It's not unheard of though obviously.

Spoiler: show

Nerolunar, chaindeath supposes he should thank you. He has looked back through some of the posts where he was mentioned and involved and has gotten some reads. Quite honestly he finds you quite suspect. You claim that he has only posted defensively however, he's tried to figure things out through postings to no avail. He finds it quite interesting that you restated things that he, although perhaps not as explicitly as he should have, days after the fact.

Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:49 pm

yawn can we lynch this now?

This statement makes chaindeath uncomfortable.

Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:42 am

Im still reading Ika as bad. I understand that we are unfamilliar with his playstyle, but I just can´t get around how it looks. Recently he has only posted pictures without words, not really been providing thoughts or reads and previously he would say stuff like "Just lynch this already". It doesn´t look to me like he is really trying. What townstyle exhibits that?

I guess he is working and doesn´t have time to respond properly, but if he doesn´t do it soon I will be voting for him.

Maybe it's a piggy back but to him it seems like a Pingy-back (He tried)

He would also like to state that his initial entry into the game was in a defensive stance since people had voted for chaindeath. Apparently to you, he thinks, not physically having the time to participate is a baddie thing to do. He was out of town with family and to that point he felt his early vote on LC was justified but he didn't want to dwell too long on it. He feels bad saying it but it was more like a "throwaway vote".

Chaindeath would like to conclude with light amount of pingy-ness coming from Scotty also, any interaction with him seems to have been not the friendliest.

D&D night got moved up a day, so he will likely not be on until late or even tomorrow morning

chaindeath turned against Nero on Day 3 with this small case. His central point seemed to be that he thought Nero was misrepresenting his play and that Nero had apparently copied one of his contributions in some way or another. That's a strange accusation; it kind of looks like chaindeath was searching for a reason to accuse Nero rather than sharing one he discovered organically.

chaindeath's Day 3 vote ended there on Nero. His was the 16th overall vote and the 3rd of 4 for Nero. This is again at least a little noteworthy, because the other larger wagons of the day (Long Con and sig) were all bolstered at the end by final votes that came after chain's vote for Nero. This means that from chain's perspective when this vote was placed, a Nero lynch should have appeared at least reasonably plausible.

Spoiler: show

Ugh. My first lynch priority today so far is Ika, but he can´t even defend himself so it would be a really rude move to lynch him. I will be looking for other suspects instead. Im considering Zebra or any of the other low posters like Black Rock or Soneji, or even Chaindeath. Well, mostly Chaindeath now that I think about it.

@ Quin

Before you asked me if I didn´t find Sloonei suspicious because he had the same behavior as you for a bit at the CFD. I do believe it was just as weird, but he is striking me as town in all other areas so far. Although you have defended yourself very well recently.

Linki - sometimes the linkis doesnt show up, and sometimes they do. Its weird.

Nero reiterated in other discussions that chaindeath was one of if not his most preferred lynch option of Day 3.

Spoiler: show

Indi did you read all of my posts? I have explained most of the points you make already. I can explain them again if you want.

I discarded the idea of meta reads on Ika/SW because they never showed up. Ika mentioned that he would quickly sort out if SW was bad, but he only went all over the place, resulting in a lot of suspicion being thrown at him. I became suspicious of him because he didn´t make use of the fact that only he has meta of SW, and also his generally weid behavior which I have explained.

I came off of Ika when I began to think that it was due to playstyle that he was acting like he was. I was afraid to tunnel too hard at that point. Epignosis had voted for me based on very little evidence(the steering of the thread) and that pinged me. He has exhibited civ behavior lately though, so Im neutral on him now.

Epignosis didn´t tunnel on me, and that made me less suspicious on him - in hindsight its a pretty bad way to gauge alignment, so I will give you that.

I had been reading 18 pages, so Quins behavior at EoD slipped my mind. There was so much to remember, and thats why I was genuinely happy that people had pointed it out so that I didn´t miss it.

As of now, yeah I am reading Ika as bad. I guess it would be stupid of him to vote for Fuzz, but I believe that was what occured anyway. Maybe he forgot he had the votes, maybe he actively bussed to save himself. Regardless of what happened, he has still exhibited scummy behavior in my opinion. I won´t lynch him today though, as he can´t defend himself. I am much more comfortable with lynching Chaindeath. He is just scummy all over.

Chaindeath

Nero again pushes for a chaindeath lynch on Day 3. He indicates with bold and underline that means to place a vote, but it appears he never did. He's documented as a missed vote for Day 3. He realized this on Night 3:

Spoiler: show

So much to read through. I realized that I forgot to vote in the poll - for the record I would have voted for Chaindeath.

I don´t feel good about Quin anymore. If he did in fact loan a vote its not unlikely that he used it to save Sig - they were also the ones(and Sloonei to a lesser extent) who opposed the CFD. I believe that they are on a team together. If Sig is scum then Golden is probably civ.

I do really think that Chaindeath is scum too. He is my strongest scum read for multiple reasons that I have already stated, and Im surprised that no one seems to agree with me.

I understand why you guys think that I am not contributing as much as I could - its mostly due to the fact that almost every time a cycle ends there are +7 pages to read, and reading that much doesn´t make me want to write huge analysises, especially not on some of the more complicated subjects. Im choosing my fights as I feel like.

It's a bit hard to understand how he'd just plain forget to click on the poll option, but I also don't understand what a baddie would stand to gain by "forgetting" on purpose. I'm inclined to believe him.

To be continued...

[Prisoner 509378]

Meanwhile, Nero and Soneji always seem to be creeping on this thread at the same time.

[Nerolunar]

Chaindeath has finished reading all of the posts to this point, in the stead of lunch might he add. He would like to acknowledge that he is flattered that thellama would not vote to lynch chaindeath. However, He wishes to let his suspicions be known of Matt and Silverwolf. Matt is acting oddly, and chaindeath is not put at ease with any of Matt's posts. Silverwolf seems fishy as well (odd since shes a wolf and all) he is not comfortable with the snap votes as soon as the polls opened.

Also Chaindeath would like to start a discussion about the hosts night powers. Perhaps the flower of the cosmos was able to redirect the night arrest away from the intended target, especially since in the day before she lost quite a bit from her family. He proposes that she is trying to keep her family at a size that would allow for a fighting chance. In the same mannor,he took the cup, that He thinks that the foot-covering used his power to radically harm the her family. He requests your thoughts.

I guess it is this post. In hindsight it is not that great a post, but at least he provided some thoughts and tried to actively discuss something. Well, I can´t have been entirely convinced by this as my suspicion returned after a while. Hmm.

I did honestly forget to click the button that day

And on the topic of creeping I am regularly visiting this site to see if someone posted more.

[Prisoner 509378]

Hey chaindeath, who do you think the last four cops are?

[Soneji]

Reading those interactions I can see more that the whole chaindeath/Nero thing stems from an actual misunderstanding of intent. In that early post Nero quoted from CD where he voted LC, Nero seemed to take the typing part to be about LC when I read that as CD basically saying that he fucked up in his last post where he meant to vote LC(he hadn't bolded and underlined it though). I can't remember his actual reason for voting LC, will look it up in a bit but yeah, just seems like a case of CD's weird writing style causing confusion. Then chaindeath in one of his recent posts seemed to misunderstand what Nero was suggesting in regards to picking a lynchee we're both confident in and would provide info.

That post where he corrected his formatting for his LC vote had me a bit pinged before, in that it seemed weird for him to make another post when his previous one made it clear where his vote was. That one Nero just quoted also had me pinged as it seemed to try to buddy llama, court sympathy with the skipping lunch thing and then talk about a game mechanic(host powers) that doesn't do us any good to discuss. After learning that he seems to be a newer player and that these are consistent mannerisms of his, I find it had to see any manipulative intent in those posts.

[Prisoner 509378]

Continuing my investigation of the Nero/chaindeath connection...

Day 4:

Spoiler: show

Chaindeath would like to thank those who have created rainbow lists and he hopes you all will keep them updated. He feels that ones opinion on others will greatly help his opinion on you. That being said however, He would like to address those who have said they don't trust him or feel suspicious of him:

Why do you feel that way? What makes him seem like a baddie? How can he help show you that he is indeed a civi going for a civi win con?

He hopes it is not merely his post count. Yesterday (in game) he felt like he made a good amount of high content posts (quality over quantity with 300+ posts per day on average, or thereabouts). He even presented his first case in a mafia game with quotes and everything. Its frustrating to see people say He's a low poster when he truly is trying his best to contribute in meaningful ways.

He would like to conclude with his suspicions and his feelings on the game state at this point in time. TH and Scotty is sending some major baddie vibes. Nero still makes me uncomfortable and chaindeath would like to draw attention to him. Llama If he were to make a list you would likely be in the yellow-orange category and Zebra fall in there too.

Sig and quin.... He feels torn with you two. He would like to say you're both town but could not do so with a clear conscience. He is going to say you're town leaning baddie. Hopefuly he will be able to say otherwise by the end of this day phase.

chaindeath restated his "discomfort" with Nero on Day 4 in vague terms.

Spoiler: show

Chaindeath doesn't know how he wants to vote... He needs to do it for the day but all of the people with votes on them feel like they could be town. He's going to stick with his guns and vote Nero because he is sure that he's bad.

He was also questioned about who will be bad if Sig flips bad, he doesn't know. There are too many options for one person's death to tell for sure on any of them. Long post short of Sig flips bad he's bad if he flips good we as a whole messed up and need to do some looming at those who pushed the vote. It doesn't make them bad but more suspect he supposes.

He does need to go for a run today while it's nice out. He may or may not be back for the EoD.

Later in the day phase that discomfort escalated to "sure Nero is bad". This was chain's very next post, though it came about 16 hours after the previous.

lol WTF. He indicated his vote with a bold and underline but never clicked on the bloody poll. This is a weird trend. He's documented as a missed vote for Day 4.

Spoiler: show

So much to read through. I realized that I forgot to vote in the poll - for the record I would have voted for Chaindeath.

I don´t feel good about Quin anymore. If he did in fact loan a vote its not unlikely that he used it to save Sig - they were also the ones(and Sloonei to a lesser extent) who opposed the CFD. I believe that they are on a team together. If Sig is scum then Golden is probably civ.

I do really think that Chaindeath is scum too. He is my strongest scum read for multiple reasons that I have already stated, and Im surprised that no one seems to agree with me.

I understand why you guys think that I am not contributing as much as I could - its mostly due to the fact that almost every time a cycle ends there are +7 pages to read, and reading that much doesn´t make me want to write huge analysises, especially not on some of the more complicated subjects. Im choosing my fights as I feel like.

Okay Quin - I missed that.

Dragon is that a bad thing? Im convinced Chaindeath is scum and Im trying to get people to vote for him. I know Im tunneling, but I won´t change my opinion unless Chaindeath proves he is civ in the following phases.

There is no chance because you guys don´t give it a chance. If everyone took a good look at Chaindeath it´s like someone would believe he is scum too.

These posts actually came in Night 3, but close enough. Nero continues to be pretty vocal about his desire to lynch chaindeath, and the language of his read progressively gets more severe.

Nero had a pretty quiet Day 4 though. He doesn't appear to have joined the action until later in the phase, and his focus was squarely on sig. This is his only mention of chaindeath on Day 4:

Spoiler: show

Chaindeath do you have any suspicions on me apart from the OMGUS?

His final vote was for sig (6th overall, which is actually early). If there was a phase where Nero didn't push as hard to lynch chaindeath as it seems he should have, this was the phase. He justified his move against sig in this post:

Spoiler: show

I believe we should lynch Sig.

Right now lynching Sig is almost the only thing we are talking about. Are we going to talk about him next cycle too? It feels like we are not getting anywhere, and I would much rather get the paranoia out of the way asap. I think we can have a more clear approach to things once we are not as occupied with lynching Sig.

Will keeping Sig alive solve any problems? In my opinion, no. Rather, if he flips bad we can probably clear Golden and that would be really beneficial.

Day 5:

Spoiler: show

There is a scumrole in the setup that can pose as another role when lynched.

Actually while we are on this topic, I mostly threw shade at Chaindeath at the time. My goal was not to defend LC, but I did notice Chaindeaths behavior. That was my first ping of him - he decided to vote for LC when the only thing LC had posted was his disagreement to the plan that everyone should be voted for, to trigger the traitors. Very weak reasoning from Chaindeath that he didn´t follow up on rubbed me the wrong way and still does.

Why do you hang onto this vote for LC? Chaindeath has said it before but he supposes it bares repeating: Day 1 was buisy for him. He was highly distracted and unable to do much speculation, which is most of what you can do day one. The story hasn't changed and he supposes you are not willing to accept it. He wonders if you would have as much suspicion for him if he had said he used and RNG for the vote.

chain's Day 5 posts are rife with Nero references, starting with this. They have another mildly argumentative exchange about chain's Day 1 LC vote.

Spoiler: show

@ Scotty A Sig lynch is fine, but Im not sure its that urgent anymore. This phase is already filled with discussion not orbiting Sig. I would much rather a confirmed scum to me, and that is Chaindeath. He reminds me of myself when I was scum in Arkham - the way my reads were all over the place and such.

Chaindeath isn't scum. If he were a baddie he would be acting quite differently, probably. The biggest kick in the teeth for him is probably not quoting and typing out half of what he was thinking, with the other half that would justify his rational kept in his brain rather than on the page. Shame on him. His crime family has sustained losses and while he would like to say that you've been involved in all of them it would seem that you are intent on killing me and having my family loose as a result. He is unsure on what else to say to convince you in particular but maybe when he gets to responding to the huge ISO on him you may find answers therein.

chain responds to another strongly worded ("confirmed scum to me") accusation from Nero. Nero's accusation is an assertion that chain reminds of him of himself in Arkham (as a baddie), chain's response is essentially WIFOM.

Spoiler: show

There is a scumrole in the setup that can pose as another role when lynched.

Actually while we are on this topic, I mostly threw shade at Chaindeath at the time. My goal was not to defend LC, but I did notice Chaindeaths behavior. That was my first ping of him - he decided to vote for LC when the only thing LC had posted was his disagreement to the plan that everyone should be voted for, to trigger the traitors. Very weak reasoning from Chaindeath that he didn´t follow up on rubbed me the wrong way and still does.

Why do you hang onto this vote for LC? Chaindeath has said it before but he supposes it bares repeating: Day 1 was buisy for him. He was highly distracted and unable to do much speculation, which is most of what you can do day one. The story hasn't changed and he supposes you are not willing to accept it. He wonders if you would have as much suspicion for him if he had said he used and RNG for the vote.

I understand that you have been working - but why LC specifically? Considering his content at the time I still wonder why you chose him.

Im not sure I want to vote for you today though - there is not much support for it and I want to put my vote to use for once However, if I notice that the support for a Chaindeath lynch is on the rise I won´t hesitate to follow that.

I like the case on Boomslang, more so than the other cases. I also remembered that Enrique was somewhat sour after the Fuzz lynch - he didn´t act happy at all. Im voting for boomslang.

Boomslang

Nero's Day 5 vote ended on Boomslang, and this was his explanation for why it didn't land on chaindeath. He said he wanted to "put his vote to use" within a more relevant wagon. This Boomslang vote came 24th overall and was the 2nd final vote out of 4 on him. However, I recall a lot of vote movement at the end of Day 5 from numerous people onto DDL, so it's pretty difficult to gauge exactly what the tally looked like at this point. chaindeath finished with 0 votes and I don't think he was ever a top candidate to be lynched.

Day 6

Spoiler: show

Can someone hook up chaidneath with a tldr of the day so far? He has classwork to do and not enough time to read through 400+ posts from the time he was away. To the direct accusations at him he would like to say if you lynch him you lynch a townie. There is no way to make this clearer that he knows of. He is going to vote Nero because he still thinks he's bad. All aboard the train hes going into a tunnel (or has been in one for a while).

This is one of the most interesting moments of chaindeath's post history to me. He voted ika and then immediately moved that vote to Nero. Then later in the day phase me moved back to ika with the post that many people felt was just terrible at face value:

Spoiler: show

He has switched his vote to Ika to kill the tie. He doesn't understand how he's bad but if the town wishes it this civ will turn himself in and let the cops roll through another night phase.

The timestamps also show that chaindeath was present two hours prior to this, suggesting that he was monitoring the motion of the thread in some capacity before joining the ika wagon (the counterwagon was Boomslang, and they both flipped town). At this point it just seems like chaindeath drops his vote onto Nero by default, like he has no idea what else to do with it until the tally moves him elsewhere.

Spoiler: show

sig, I don't believe you've said anything about my sudden and consistent defenses of you. Are you trying to pocket a prisoner?

What do you mean, pocket a prisoner?

Buddy me, man. Be my buddy. My devious, sinister buddy.

At the moment I am ripping chaindeath to shreds. Stay tuned gang.

I am so ready.

Nero humorously voices his anticipation of my own pledge to draw up a case against chaindeath on Day 6.

Spoiler: show

Actually wow, okay I just read up on things. I regret not being here at EOD. The fact anyone voted for Ika after chaindeath is very off putting to me. His post reeks. Also I dislike Th last minute vote. I think y'all might have been right about Enrique/Bloom. I could see Chain, TH, and maybe llama as there teammate. Possibly Nero also. Both have tunneled on players who arent major lynch trains. I also can't even recall Llama giving reads outside of who he thought was scum DDL and Quin.

I don´t see how you can think Im a teammate of Chaindeath. I have been advocating his lynch for a very long time now

Let's lynch chaindeath tomorrow. I think everyone agrees with that one, yes?

Sure, Chaindeath is a great lynch, and so is Boomslang. It should have been one of them this day, though it does make it easier to work with SW as she is not as entangled with Ika anymore.

I agree with Prisoner 509 that we need to step up a bit if we really want to lynch more cops. We need to nail the objectively scummiest players as our first priority.

Linki - Exactly Sloonei.

Technically Night 6: Nero reacts to the first recorded assertion (to my knowledge) by sig that he might be chaindeath's cop team mate. He implies it's hard to understand how they could be paired given his long-term desire to get chaindeath lynched. He throws in his support with me when I promote the idea of lynching chaindeath next, and adds that Boomslang would also be acceptable.

Day 7:

Spoiler: show

Let's lynch chaindeath tomorrow. I think everyone agrees with that one, yes?

I don't. I thought the almost-lynch of Chaindeath early in the game was a clear case of scapegoating.

What about Epi? We lynched two of the three major people for day 2. All three people who voted for him were civs.

I'd rather lynch Bloom or nero, not really seeing the chaindeath thing.

Mr. 509, chaindeath would like to disagree with you since he is, in fact part of everyone. He would not be a good lynch since it would only trouble his family more. He is a civi. Nero and chaindeath, he would like to point out, are not friendmates in the slightest. They have been trying to get the town to lynch one another for a large part of the game. If chaindeath had teammates he would avoid them like the plague.

Night 6 technically. I suggested some suspicion that Nero and chaindeath might be team mates who had spent the game distancing from one another, and this was chaindeath's response to that. The wording is rather fun: "...they have been trying to get the town to lynch one another...". This is a similar response to what Nero gave earlier when sig made a similar suggestion.

Spoiler: show

1.TH
2.Nero

Prisoner Im not sure I understand the question. I also slept and have been doing other things if you need more reasons. I have been checking in regularly but swiftly and didn´t find anything that I would like to comment on. Chaindeath seems to be our lynch for today and if not him then Boomslang,and Im fine with either.

This sort of, he wants to say, snap lynching was part of the reason he suspected Ika originally.

yawn can we lynch this now?

chain gave us his top two lynches later in Day 7. Suddenly TH is number one, and who knows why. Nero is relegated to a second priority, but he never really pushed the lynch of anyone in any serious manner. His willingness to dive headfirst into the TH lynch for basically no reason is suspicious on its own power though.

Spoiler: show

Voted for chaindeath and then immediately changed to Boomslang. I want to hear from both of them. I will support a lynch of either of them today, barring something unexpected.

Me too. They are my biggest scum reads right now.

He reiterates this strong cop read on chaindeath and Boomslang on Day 7.

Spoiler: show

Voted for chaindeath and then immediately changed to Boomslang. I want to hear from both of them. I will support a lynch of either of them today, barring something unexpected.

Me too. They are my biggest scum reads right now.

Why is your first post in 8 hours 5 minutes after the night post?

Yes. My reads have been them for a while now and none of the discussion that has been going on has changed that.

Voted for chaindeath and then immediately changed to Boomslang. I want to hear from both of them. I will support a lynch of either of them today, barring something unexpected.

Me too. They are my biggest scum reads right now.

Who's your #3 read?

Sig.

Chaindeath

He throws in his vote for chaindeath. This is perhaps another important moment -- he was willing to lynch either Boomslang (town flip) or chaindeath, and opted to place his initial vote for chaindeath. Epignosis has asserted that Nero has never truly been interested in getting chain lynched, and this moment is where I think we all have some ability to judge for ourselves. If the momentum of the thread on Day 7 had moved against chaindeath instead of against Boomslang (and later Turnip Head), do we think Nerolunar would have faltered in this vote and in his crusade? Think about that.

Spoiler: show

Nerolunar, come back and post a thing!

Sure, although I don´t have much to comment on.

Chaindeath trying to redirect a lynch unto Th is a little weird to me. I think Boomslang is so much more suspicious right now, and I would like Chaindeath to elaborate on why he thinks TH is more suspicious in the light of possible evidence that we have.

Nerolunar, come back and post a thing!

Sure, although I don´t have much to comment on.

Chaindeath trying to redirect a lynch unto Th is a little weird to me. I think Boomslang is so much more suspicious right now, and I would like Chaindeath to elaborate on why he thinks TH is more suspicious in the light of possible evidence that we have.

Redirect? Most of the day has been about discussing which one of those two to lynch. No one's redirecting a lynch anywhere. TH has 5 votes. The only person not participating in the lynch so far today is Boomslang himself.

I don´t see why TH is suspicious. Is there a case anywhere that I have missed?

Nero voices some indirect resistance to the TH wagon particularly given chaindeath's participation in it.

By the end of the day phase, Nero's final vote was planted on Boomslang. He never went for the TH wagon, and didn't hold on to the option of lynching chaindeath when thread momentum moved much more strongly against the other two.

To be continued... The prisoner never sleeps.

[Soneji]

I am starting to see both Nero and CD as town and its confusing the hell out of me.

[Prisoner 509378]

I am starting to see both Nero and CD as town and its confusing the hell out of me.

Who are the cops in such a scenario?

[chaindeath]

Hey chaindeath, who do you think the last four cops are?

Chaindeath thinks the cops are probably:
Nerolunar
Dom
Elochin
Soneji

Linki @ Soneji - 4. All votes must be cast in the poll to count. It is considered standard and good form to post at the time of your vote and indicate your vote with bold/underline. Your hosts would very much appreciate that you do this, so please do so, but it is not necessary for your vote to count.

Chaindeath was just trying to adhere to this, had he known it was going to cause such a fuss he wouldn't have. Cripe.

[Prisoner 509378]

chaindeath, why did you support the attempted lynch of Turnip Head?

[Soneji]

That is what is confusing me. If both of them are town, then one of the strong town pile has to be mafia alongside Epi, Dom and Elo. If I had a gun to my head on who between SVS, TH and Sloonei it would be, its SVS.

[chaindeath]

Chaindeath is going to place his vote on Nerolunar. He feels that this post is fishy because although Nero says that we need to lynch people who arn't providing information in favor of our pursuit of the cops. Perhaps chaindeath is not the best person to call someone on this but it would seem that apart from saying outright that these people are cops Nero hasn't done much of what he is saying the baddies are doing. Thoughts?

I'm not quite sure I understand exactly what you mean here, chaindeath. This is not an accusation, just a friendly request for you to try to restate your point another way.

Chaindeath was trying to say that Nero hasn't built cases and it would seem that he has tended to use other peoples to achieve his end. (chaindeath thinks scottys case was the last one Nero referenced.)

[Prisoner 509378]

That is what is confusing me. If both of them are town, then one of the strong town pile has to be mafia alongside Epi, Dom and Elo. If I had a gun to my head on who between SVS, TH and Sloonei it would be, its SVS.

Why S~V~S? She would seem to have the strongest mechanical argument in her favor of anyone in the game save arguably for Turnip Head. Black Rock's arrest should almost entirely clear her.

The review has strengthened my belief that chaindeath as scum, contrary to your own perspective. His voting behavior is quite flaky. A lot of focus has been given to his LC vote on Day 1, but he really doesn't boast any strong votes. His votes on Day 6 prior to the eventual lynch of ika were very questionable. I have no idea why he supported the lynch of Turnip Head. I don't think it's difficult to find opportunism there.

[Dom]

You could start by sharing your perceived team of four cops.

Chaindeath
Nerolunar
Elo?
Soneji?