[END] Turf Wars: Battle of the Hosts

[Prisoner 509378]

IMO: On Day 11 of a 4-3 game, meta can die forever.

[Prisoner 509378]

Anyway, before I get myself into a frenzy and end up changing my mind for the 10,000th time, I'm going to sleep. I'll be away for much of tomorrow, so hopefully y'all can engage in an active-ass thread (preferably not an active ass-thread) and I'll return to find so many delicious goodies.

[Sloonei]

I am not working and will be snowed in all day tomorrow, so I can't imagine I'll do anything other than mafia. And watching baseball.

[Prisoner 509378]

[Sloonei]

I wish someone would say something.

[Dom]

rezz me

[Sloonei]

Great, now the thread is haunted.

[Dom]

boo

[Prisoner 509378]

Hey everyone, game on?

[Sloonei]

[Nerolunar]

Nero's reaction looks like top grade b/s.

Here are some non-interactive tidbits from Nero that are just yikes to me at face value.

Spoiler: show

What are you going to do if Silverwolf appears to you as town? Who are you going to vote for today if you don´t have any reads?

@ Matt I agree that is strange. But is it alignment indicative? I don´t think so.

wh i always do: work with her and sort out reads that we cant agree on and try to make a cohesive town bloc of players. i would prob go isoing then and read people to see what i cna find if i sort her

So you are developing reads? Just before you said you weren´t going to make reads on people day 1 But thanks for clarifying.

I like that you and Silverwolf can cooperate like this, provided that both of you are good. I will keep an eye on you Could very well be that both of you are baddies.

Yikes.

Wait, quite a few people have been voicing disagreement against the Gleam wagon. Is this a coordinated cop effort to steer the thread in a specific direction?

Yikes.

Wow.

Well, if you can´t reference to posts and find bits of proof then how do you want us to agree with you? Why do you want to do ISO´s if you don´t want to analyse them?

Man.

Yikes.

Sorry Wilgy. I can't vote for you anymore. Something else came up.

Wait, quite a few people have been voicing disagreement against the Gleam wagon. Is this a coordinated cop effort to steer the thread in a specific direction?

Go on...

Wow.

Well, if you can´t reference to posts and find bits of proof then how do you want us to agree with you? Why do you want to do ISO´s if you don´t want to analyse them?

Man.

Uh-huh. Nerolunar. Is the thread being steered? Who is doing the driving?

What the hell have I been reading the past few pages?

Have you figured it out yet?

No. A grammar and spelling manual would do wonders.

i do analize them

Ooooow.

Pursuing Ika right then seemed much more appropiate than trying to focus on the disagreement with the Gleam lynch. I got some fine answers from him that made me vote for him. We got to know Ika better and thats way more valuable than following through with my previous thoughts.

It pinged me that you were so quick to vote for me based on this. Were you pinged by me before? If so, where and why?

Yikes.

Voting Epignosis for the time. I don't have much to go on, but I've got a bad gut read of him, I also don't see the gleam lynch what so ever. I think between Gleam and Ika, Ika is more likely to be bad.

Before you were pinged by me, and now you vote for my accuser? Don´t get me wrong, Im happy that you don´t find me suspicious anymore, but this looks a tad opportunistic to me

Yikes.

Yay! Well done on the lynch.

Im not so sure on Ika anymore. Im more inclined to lynching Epi right now, though I will have to wait for the night to end before making any reads. We should have fresh information by then.

Yikes.

I think Im going to vote for Chaindeath. He voted for LC based on nothing earlier today, when the only thing LC had posted IIRC was an argument against the everyone-vote-for-everyone plan. Still getting mixed signals from Gleam, but I will let him slide this round.

See y`all tomorrow.

Yikes.

Im still reading Ika as bad. I understand that we are unfamilliar with his playstyle, but I just can´t get around how it looks. Recently he has only posted pictures without words, not really been providing thoughts or reads and previously he would say stuff like "Just lynch this already". It doesn´t look to me like he is really trying. What townstyle exhibits that?

I guess he is working and doesn´t have time to respond properly, but if he doesn´t do it soon I will be voting for him.

Yikes.

Sig.

You didn´t answer my question or follow up on our discussion Whats up? Im pinged by you you know.

Haha yikes.

Okay Quin - I missed that.

Dragon is that a bad thing? Im convinced Chaindeath is scum and Im trying to get people to vote for him. I know Im tunneling, but I won´t change my opinion unless Chaindeath proves he is civ in the following phases.

Yikes.

I believe we should lynch Sig.

Right now lynching Sig is almost the only thing we are talking about. Are we going to talk about him next cycle too? It feels like we are not getting anywhere, and I would much rather get the paranoia out of the way asap. I think we can have a more clear approach to things once we are not as occupied with lynching Sig.

Will keeping Sig alive solve any problems? In my opinion, no. Rather, if he flips bad we can probably clear Golden and that would be really beneficial.

Yikes.

Also, thank you Scotty for seeing for what Im seeing in regards to Chaindeath.

This isn't yikes so much as it's textbook team mate b/s (with chaindeath). Epi was right to say I was wearing kid gloves before.

Anyways, its confusing that all these prisoners have showed up. I would like you guys to only talk on topic and try to maximize town effort - It will be dificult to find scum if half of the thread is off topic or not helpful from now on. So help us hunt scum instead of running around verbally if you know what I mean. I mean no offense by this, obviously.

Chaindeath

I ask everyone to evaluate Chaindeaths posts and tell me how he can possibly be civ. Im so tunnel minded on this and it would be cool if other people would provide reads on him. Im interested to see why some of you are townreading him, because I simply can´t.

Yikes.

That GTH exercise you guys did earlier was really interesting to read, and I am going to make one for myself too now. I don´t understand why so many of you find me scummy though, but to be honest Im not really scared. I guess I haven´t been investing that much effort in to this game(haven´t really done ISOs and such) and I understand why that might seem scummy to you. However, I believe that there are objectively worse looking players at the moment, and I want to lynch Sig this round. I believe that he is indeed scum, and has recently found his footing so he can continue to slip away of lynches. I say we lynch Sig once and for all.

Yikes.

I am never lynching any of these people on Day 10:

S~V~S
Sloonei
Turnip Head

That means there are 4 baddies here:

chaindeath
Dom
Elohcin
Epignosis
Nerolunar
Soneji

If you're a townie in that pile, then show yourself as brightly as you can. The game is still winnable, somehow, and if you get out of that pile then it's locked.

Aye aye captn.

I think the scum team looks like this:

Chaindeath
Elohcin
Epignosis
Last one is a coin toss between Soneji and Dom. I won´t be advocting to lynch either of these right now though.

I think we should be lynching the person who we think is scum but also if that person can provide us with information to help us continue our pursuit.

So, Epignosis

We should also be careful of bussing and new wagons popping up. There is probably going to be an attempted save at some point.

YIKES.

I could see that vote for Chaindeath by Epi as a bussing attempt. Chaindeath is barely here anyway, so its not unlikely that he is the member they would most like to sacrifice.

He already knows chaindeath's alignment.

This guy has been scummy at every turn, and instead of noticing it I've spent my time being preoccupied by murdering Epignosis and the fact that a bad Epi likely means a good Nero. Reverse that please.

I think lots of these quotes were in your previous ISO of me. Is there anything you want me to answer to, or is it just tone-reading? I can´t really defend myself from this you know, its just how I write. If this gets me lynched I will be really pissed

Also, I dont KNOW for sure that Chaindeath is bad, I just have a really strong read on him.

TURNIP HEAD! Help us. Who should we lynch: Epi or Nero?

Why the dual choice? Im all for Chaindeath or Elohcin this phase. Mostly Chaindeath actually.

[Sloonei]

I broke it down to you two because you're the ones the prisoner and I don't agree with. I think you are good ans Epi is bad, and he thinks Epi is good and you are bad. What do you think of Epi?

[Nerolunar]

I think he is bad along with Chaindeath and Elohcin. That weird mindgame he did with me earlier where he voted for Chaindeath settled it for me. I cannot fathom how a civvy would ever want to do something like that. Were he hoping for me to reveal myself somehow or what? To me the only incentive to do that was to throw shade and scapegoat me.

The reason Im not including Soneji in my scumlist is because his thoughts processes have been very close to mine. Im much less doubtful of him that the people in my scumlist.

[Sloonei]

If you have time, could you pull out some quotes that demonstrate Soneji's thought processes being similar to yours?

[Nerolunar]

If you have time, could you pull out some quotes that demonstrate Soneji's thought processes being similar to yours?

Sure, give me a moment.

[DrWilgy]

What's up Dom? You haunting the thread too now?

[Nerolunar]

Lets look at the numbers here. There are four cops to eight civs, if we assume that the seemer has been lynched. The cops will arrest at least one player tonight, potentially two. Lets assume the former, that puts us at four cops, seven civs. A mislynch next day phase will put as at best 4 vs 5 after the subsequent night phase. So at most, we can afford one mislynch if the cops don't get lucky with their 20% chance of lynching a second player.

The Scotty lynch was based on meta reasoning mainly, from how he acted in another game I wasn't in. I have had Epi try to shoot down my suspicion on Mongoose for meta reasons, SVS was saying Epi wouldn't tunnel sig if he was mafia due to meta reasons, etc...it seems this site has an over reliance on meta. Even the suspicion on me has never fully taken off as people are hesitant due to not knowing my meta. We need to stop thinking about meta and just judge the actions by themselves.

Here he advocates to not put as much emphasis on meta, and I agree. Being fairly new here I was initially surprised how big a part meta plays. It resonated fairly well with me.

We should also be careful of bussing and new wagons popping up. There is probably going to be an attempted save at some point.

Read: We must regard any alternative lynches as save attempts because Epignosis is bad, and we must regard any additional votes on Epignosis as bussing because Epignosis is bad.

Way to think things through.



Nerolunar

Maybe you missed the word "careful" there. Looking out for those just joining your wagon without good reason to do so or counterwagons that don't have a strong basis, is not the same as regarding every alternative lynch as a save or votes on you as bussing. Twisting suggestions to the extreme to paint someone as scum is almost exclusively done by anti-town.

Soneji was the only person who actually understood what I meant by this.

There is certainly merit in that methodology Prisoner. At this point with so few players, process of elimination is key. I could agree that Nero/chaindeath isn't likely and Epi/Nero to a lesser extent. So for me the most likely scum team is:

Epi
chaindeath
Dom
Elo

Soneji also made a scumlist that was identical to the one I had in mind after reading Prisoner´s process of elimination exercise.

[Sloonei]

That is also what my 4 person cop team looked like. Are you at all worried that Soneji is perhaps juwt trying to appear agreeable so that he can buddy you and/or me?

[Sloonei]

My two town reads of the 5 uncertain players share their suspects with me, and this gives me pause. Turnip Head, wherever you are, any thoughts you can share would be my favorite thing in the world right now.

[Nerolunar]

That is also what my 4 person cop team looked like. Are you at all worried that Soneji is perhaps juwt trying to appear agreeable so that he can buddy you and/or me?

Im aware of the possibility, but it just looks so genuine.

Im going to look at the exercise again and check Sonejis part. Nothing so far have made me doubt the exercise, especially not after Dom came out bad.

[Nerolunar]

Doing this again, but this time I will make no comments about what I think is likely or unlikely. You guys tell me.

Supposing the innocence of Sloonei and Turnip Head...

chaindeath

Spoiler: show

If chaindeath and Elohcin are town, cops are:
EPIGNOSIS
NEROLUNAR
SONEJI

If chaindeath and Epignosis are town, cops are:
ELOHCIN
NEROLUNAR
SONEJI

If chaindeath and Nerolunar are town, cops are:
ELOHCIN
EPIGNOSIS
SONEJI

If chaindeath and Soneji are town, cops are:
ELOHCIN
EPIGNOSIS
NEROLUNAR

Elohcin

Spoiler: show

If Elohcin and chaindeath are town, cops are:
Epignosis
Nerolunar
Soneji

If Elohcin and Epignosis are town, cops are:
chaindeath
Nerolunar
Soneji

If Elohcin and Nerolunar are town, cops are:
chaindeath
Epignosis
Soneji

If Elohcin and Soneji are town, cops are:
chaindeath
Epignosis
Nerolunar

Epignosis

Spoiler: show

If Epignosis and chaindeath are town, cops are:
Elohcin
Nerolunar
Soneji

If Epignosis and Elohcin are town, cops are:
chaindeath
Nerolunar
Soneji

If Epignosis and Nerolunar are town, cops are:
chaindeath
Elohcin
Soneji

If Epignosis and Soneji are town, cops are:
chaindeath
Epignosis
Nerolunar

Nerolunar

Spoiler: show

If Nerolunar and chaindeath are town, cops are:
Elohcin
Epignosis
Soneji

If Nerolunar and Elohcin are town, cops are:
chaindeath
Epignosis
Soneji

If Nerolunar and Epignosis are town, cops are:
chaindeath
Elohcin
Soneji

If Nerolunar and Soneji are town, cops are:
chaindeath
Elohcin
Epignosis

Soneji

Spoiler: show

If Soneji and chaindeath are town, cops are:
Elohcin
Epignosis
Nerolunar

If Soneji and Elohcin are town, cops are:
chaindeath
Epignosis
Nerolunar

If Soneji and Epignosis are town, cops are:
chaindeath
Elohcin
Nerolunar

If Soneji and Nerolunar are town, cops are:
chaindeath
Elohcin
Epignosis

Okay its the same.

Are anyone ready for a Chaindeath lynch now?

[Prisoner 509378]

I think we should be willing to consider a universe in which both Epi and Nero are town. There's nothing logically challenging about an Elohcin, chaindeath, Soneji cop team.

I agree, Turnip 's opinion is crucial right now.

Sloonei, it might help if you build a full case of the things that sell you on Epi as a cop. Remember that one day ago I was willing to take him out, so I can be sold here. I'm primarily troubled by the problem that both of them are suspicious. I am also even giving a lot of thought to Epi and Nero being cops together, because they were both nonsense throughout Day 10.

[Sloonei]

What causes you to trust in that exercise right now, Nero?

[Sloonei]

I think we should be willing to consider a universe in which both Epi and Nero are town. There's nothing logically challenging about an Elohcin, chaindeath, Soneji cop team.

I agree, Turnip 's opinion is crucial right now.

Sloonei, it might help if you build a full case of the things that sell you on Epi as a cop. Remember that one day ago I was willing to take him out, so I can be sold here. I'm primarily troubled by the problem that both of them are suspicious. I am also even giving a lot of thought to Epi and Nero being cops together, because they were both nonsense throughout Day 10.

I plan to do this at some point this afternoon.

[Prisoner 509378]

I mean seriously, Nero's worst post of Day 10 and maybe the game (cautioning against bussers and savers of Epi) was about Epi. Epi's worst post of Day 10 (putting Nero in a lose-lose scenario with his chaindeath "test") was about Nero.

[Nerolunar]

What causes you to trust in that exercise right now, Nero?

My own alignment(Im town) + my trust of Soneji and distrust of Chaindeath and Epignosis. I think the scum team presented in the "If Nero and Soneji are town, then: ..." is the truth.

[Sloonei]

I mean seriously, Nero's worst post of Day 10 and maybe the game (cautioning against bussers and savers of Epi) was about Epi. Epi's worst post of Day 10 (putting Nero in a lose-lose scenario with his chaindeath "test") was about Nero.

I don't think it's impossible that the cops would have been attempting to put some distance between themselves on Day 10. We were nearly assured to catch one of them, so it could be a viable strategy for two of them to want to appear as unconnected as possible.

[Prisoner 509378]

The thing that concerns me most about Epi is that the progression of night arrests points to him, and I'm not convinced it's just framing. I keep returning to the Silverwolf and Black Rock kills.

[Sloonei]

What causes you to trust in that exercise right now, Nero?

My own alignment(Im town) + my trust of Soneji and distrust of Chaindeath and Epignosis. I think the scum team presented in the "If Nero and Soneji are town, then: ..." is the truth.

But this is just you restating your reads. Why are you referring to this exercise right now, and what do you like about it?

[Prisoner 509378]

I mean seriously, Nero's worst post of Day 10 and maybe the game (cautioning against bussers and savers of Epi) was about Epi. Epi's worst post of Day 10 (putting Nero in a lose-lose scenario with his chaindeath "test") was about Nero.

I don't think it's impossible that the cops would have been attempting to put some distance between themselves on Day 10. We were nearly assured to catch one of them, so it could be a viable strategy for two of them to want to appear as unconnected as possible.

Yes, that's what is on my mind. I don't see townie investigation/interrogation in Epi's attacks on Nero, they appear calculated. I don't see townie caution in Nero's treatment of the Epi wagon, I see calculation.

Neither of them gave the other a chance. And that makes me very wary of a chaindeath lynch. They're both eager to do that one.

[Prisoner 509378]

Soneji feels town lately. Maybe he is. chaindeath has been called a scapegoat. Maybe he is.

Epi, Nero, Eloh...

Or Epi, Nero, chain...

[Prisoner 509378]

Hey Sloonei, do you want to resolve to lynch one of these real suspects (Nero/Epi) and not settle for a less substantive weenie lynch (chain/Eloh)?

Pending Turnip's perspective.

[Nerolunar]

What causes you to trust in that exercise right now, Nero?

My own alignment(Im town) + my trust of Soneji and distrust of Chaindeath and Epignosis. I think the scum team presented in the "If Nero and Soneji are town, then: ..." is the truth.

But this is just you restating your reads. Why are you referring to this exercise right now, and what do you like about it?

I like that its an exercise based on reads and relationships that exist and have been relevant for some time. Its another weapon to use when tone and gut are not as trusted as before, and I think its useful that it can help us find the players most likely to be scum. I'm personally not good at keeping track of people´s reads and in-game relationships so having it put down like that in a logical manner really helped me find my grasp in this game after I was nearly absent for day 8-9.

Its also not overtly authorative, as the variables can still be discussed.

[Sloonei]

The thing that concerns me most about Epi is that the progression of night arrests points to him, and I'm not convinced it's just framing. I keep returning to the Silverwolf and Black Rock kills.

This was hardly even a consideration in my suspicion of him, but I welcome it into the fold as another piece of evidence pointing against him. My suspicion is based on the tone and content of his posts. I stated at the very beginning of this game, like two years ago, that he seemed to be lacking in something. I called it aggression at the time, but this was disputed. Epi responded to it with what I now see as an overly defensive explanation against my accusations. Epi was a little more forthcoming and less resistant to the accusation than he normally is, and this made me think that purpose It was because there is some truth to it. It's Day 11 and I still get this sense even from Epi's most recent content. He's still more on the sidelines than at the center of any of the case-building IMO. Like he's waiting for the thread to set itself up before he reacts to anything, instead of presenting his thoughts upfront and ahead of everything else, if that makes sense. I will try to explain this more succinctly in my ISO later.
He seems like he is planning his cases too carefully. Something I will be on the lookout for in my ISO is whether or not I feel like he's been too logical or mechanical in his thought process, as that is usually a sign that a person's reads are more manufactured and not so much from their gut.

[Sloonei]

I mean seriously, Nero's worst post of Day 10 and maybe the game (cautioning against bussers and savers of Epi) was about Epi. Epi's worst post of Day 10 (putting Nero in a lose-lose scenario with his chaindeath "test") was about Nero.

I don't think it's impossible that the cops would have been attempting to put some distance between themselves on Day 10. We were nearly assured to catch one of them, so it could be a viable strategy for two of them to want to appear as unconnected as possible.

Yes, that's what is on my mind. I don't see townie investigation/interrogation in Epi's attacks on Nero, they appear calculated. I don't see townie caution in Nero's treatment of the Epi wagon, I see calculation.

Neither of them gave the other a chance. And that makes me very wary of a chaindeath lynch. They're both eager to do that one.

Calculated is a word I should have used in my explanation of Epi just now. I am in complete agreement. All of his moves feel calculated, and I don't like it.

[Sloonei]

Hey Sloonei, do you want to resolve to lynch one of these real suspects (Nero/Epi) and not settle for a less substantive weenie lynch (chain/Eloh)?

Pending Turnip's perspective.

Yes. There's a reason I haven't moved my vote, even as a precaution.

[Sloonei]

I am not sure I understand what you find so suspicious about Nero's Day 10 behavior, though. I read Nero's strong caution as consistent with his general play this game and more believable than a lot of Epi's behavior. I don't disagree with him when he says that bus attempts or lynch saves are possibilities in a situation like the one we were in yesterday.

[Sloonei]

The first post that caught my eye when I opened Epi's post history, from Day 1 or 2 where he dismisses my entire town read on Nero because I referenced Zodiac in the post:

Spoiler: show

Reasons I think Nero is town:

What is the point of asking silverworlf, or any player at all, if they are town? Also if silverwolf is the player you feel you can read the best, why are you focusing so much on her? Shouldn't you work on the players you can't read so well?

Reactoins, reads, what they say. I mean theres like endless reasons to ask it in general. To undertsand ym you first need to knwo i need a person i can talk to and trust. silver is the only person here i knwo and i can read acurately. So if shes scum i push her hard to get her lynched. If shes town we have the ultimate syagery and can decimate scums.

Players i cant read so well (aka everyone else) im not trying to sort on a day 1 phase. it would be more around mid/late day 2/day 3 where i try to do so

What are you going to do if Silverwolf appears to you as town? Who are you going to vote for today if you don´t have any reads?

@ Matt I agree that is strange. But is it alignment indicative? I don´t think so.

In the one other game I played with him (Zodiac) he was bad (and I know everyone but me, llama, and G-man was bad in that game, but still!) and I noticed on Day 1 Nero was just hopping on board with a lot of pre-existing cases and didn't really appear to be trying to figure things out. This post here reads as a genuine Thought Process to me. He's asking questions and getting involved. Ditto on this follow up post where he puts a vote on ika. He has a series of posts focusing on ika/silverwolf, and I have no trouble reading these posts as a series of progressing thoughts about the two of them as he asks questions and gets answers. I can see his thought process unfolding and it makes sense.

He also has a few other posts where he points out things that he find suspicious, but doesn't go overboard on them. He doesn't seem too hasty to name a suspect, and is letting the game come to him at a natural pace. I like that, it indicates to me, again, that his thought process is a natural and honest one.
Examples: here, here, here.

He hasn't posted the most content in the thread, but Nero has struck me as one of the most consistent and agreeable players in the thread so far this game. I haven't seen any big cases made against him, but I don't really understand why there would be one. If someone's got a case, please share it.

It amazes me that you can have that kind of read on Nerolunar based on Zodiac. You have Wligy levels of perception.

It seemed relevant. What do we all think?

ISO incoming

[Nerolunar]

Tbh I dont even know what he means. I don´t know Wilgy that well either.

[Prisoner 509378]

I am not sure I understand what you find so suspicious about Nero's Day 10 behavior, though. I read Nero's strong caution as consistent with his general play this game and more believable than a lot of Epi's behavior. I don't disagree with him when he says that bus attempts or lynch saves are possibilities in a situation like the one we were in yesterday.

The caution he expressed left room for only two scenarios: epi gets bussed or Epi gets saved. Both of them imply by default that Epi is bad. This appears calculated in that Epi cannot win, and any vote movement, no matter what can be associated with one of those two scenarios. He put everyone who had not voted already, and frankly those who had, in a lose-lose position. It's quite like what Epi pulled himself.

Both of those posts were instant b/s to me. Instant. And each player responded to them in a way that exposed the logical flaws. I agreed strongly with Epi's response to Nero's caution. I agreed strongly with Nero's response to Epi's chaindeath ultimatum.

They could easily both be full of crap.

[Sloonei]

Another thing that's not really part of my main suspicion but I feel is worth highlighting:

One of Epi's earliest actions in the game was to call me his first (or one of his first) suspects because I... Expressed some doubts about Mongoose, confirmed scum.

I'm taking my vote off Long Con. I wouldn't want anyone to think that I suspect him.

agleaminranks, come say something.

Hiii, I'm trying to catch up on the posts so far. I didn't get a chance to read through it yet because I just started my new job today as an afterschool math and physics tutor. I'll have something solid to go on in the next few hours hopefully~

Oh wow, imagine seeing you in these parts!


In other news, I think it's transcendent that we are having the Voting a Non-Participant discussion again, and on my first day back!. Historically, I am very fond of this tactic (that is, in the absence of anything meatier -we've certainly had meat in the room on day 1, so to speak).

This post just caught my eye. I acknowledge that Mongoose has expressed some pretty legitimate reasons to not be active thus far, but when a player goes out of their way to express both of the thoughts expressed in the bottom paragraph, and then doesn't provide the thread with any meat herself, I can't help but see it as a player who is potentially trying to fluff up their own posts by spouting pro-town sentiments without actually contributing anything to the townie cause. Or the family cause. or whatever.
Putting my vote on Mongoose and then passing out.

Ooh. Now I have a reason to vote for somebody.

Someone ask me why Sloonei is bad.

whys sloonei bad mr nosis

Mongoose does what Sloonei accused her of. All the time. And I have missed Mongoose something fierce.

Never have I ever played in a game with Mongoose.

I know. She's a peach.

I'm going to bed. I'll move my vote off you then if I'm satisfied with your apology for suspecting Mongoose.

In the thread's present climate these posts feel even less genuine than they did before. I dismissed it as Epi being Epi earlier, but these posts always resonated unusually for me. The tone of the first post where he starts to accuse me does not match his "I know/waiting for an apology" response at the end. Considering that Epi had already placed at least one vote and had a good number of heavy gameplay posts before this, that he names this as his first "reason to vote for somebody", but then immediately backs down from that stance. He had already voted for Enrique, suggesting a reason, and yet this is his first real reason, but he bases it on nothing. It strikes me as insincere.

[Sloonei]

Tbh I dont even know what he means. I don´t know Wilgy that well either.

That was a reference to something earlier in the game, where Wilgy brought up someone's scum game from Zodiac (SVS or Epi himself, I think) as a point of reference for this game. Epi dismisses that that game can be used at all, since 9 of the 12 players in it were scum so it wasn't a real game ("Maphia" is our name for that on RYM, let's bring that over here).

[Sloonei]

I am not sure I understand what you find so suspicious about Nero's Day 10 behavior, though. I read Nero's strong caution as consistent with his general play this game and more believable than a lot of Epi's behavior. I don't disagree with him when he says that bus attempts or lynch saves are possibilities in a situation like the one we were in yesterday.

The caution he expressed left room for only two scenarios: epi gets bussed or Epi gets saved. Both of them imply by default that Epi is bad. This appears calculated in that Epi cannot win, and any vote movement, no matter what can be associated with one of those two scenarios. He put everyone who had not voted already, and frankly those who had, in a lose-lose position. It's quite like what Epi pulled himself.

Both of those posts were instant b/s to me. Instant. And each player responded to them in a way that exposed the logical flaws. I agreed strongly with Epi's response to Nero's caution. I agreed strongly with Nero's response to Epi's chaindeath ultimatum.

They could easily both be full of crap.

I am predisposed to sympathize with Nero's caution in that post, but I understand your point. I have not been viewing Nero's post so strongly and I am inclined to agree with Soneji's take on it. Nero could have just been saying that we should be careful about those things. He was not necessarily saying that they would happen, just that they're possibilities. A townie should be conscious of these possibilities.
That said my mind is by no means made up on this matter.

Rainbow colored suspicions:
Nerolunar

Epignosis

I am feeling especially skeptical of Nero all of a sudden, but Epi is still comfortably ahead of everyone else.

[Sloonei]

I have been trying to start my Epignosis ISO for nearly an hour, and now we're 30 minutes away from the first pitch of the only baseball season that really matters. This thing is never getting done.

[Nerolunar]

Tbh I dont even know what he means. I don´t know Wilgy that well either.

That was a reference to something earlier in the game, where Wilgy brought up someone's scum game from Zodiac (SVS or Epi himself, I think) as a point of reference for this game. Epi dismisses that that game can be used at all, since 9 of the 12 players in it were scum so it wasn't a real game ("Maphia" is our name for that on RYM, let's bring that over here).

Yeah okay, thanks.

I think the first few days of Zodiac can be relevant. People didn´t know what the hell was going on, at least my team didn´t.

Linki~

[Sloonei]

In lieu of a big ISO post I'll continue posting small snippets of things that have me feeling suspicious of Epi. Here is the exchange I referenced earlier in this post where Epi's response to my comments seemed overly defensive:

Spoiler: show

Depending on how SVS responds to my earilier questions, my vote today seems like it will be coming down to her, Epignosis, or ika.

Why me?

You don't seem as aggressive as usual. It's disconcerting.

People have been saying that about me for the past several months.

I am referencing as far back as Rocky & Bullwinkle.

Depending on how SVS responds to my earilier questions, my vote today seems like it will be coming down to her, Epignosis, or ika.

Why me?

You don't seem as aggressive as usual. It's disconcerting.

People have been saying that about me for the past several months.

I would like to see some evidence for this. What recent mafia game did another player accuse you of being less aggressive?

Linki: Sloonei, I don't think you can use Rock and Bullwinkle as a reference point since it's still an ongoing game.

I really don't want to trudge through old games to find specific posts, but it's true.

There are multiple reasons I am not as aggressive as I was last year. In terms of time, I've been hosting for six months. I also have a new profitable hobby in fantasy NBA, which takes a great deal of time and research to stay profitable.

In terms of Mafia, though, I started trying to dial back as far back as Death Note, when I was almost certain FZ. was bad and would not relent in hunting her down. It was a terrible blow when I realized how much time and effort I wasted contributing to my own loss. That made me begin to reevaluate my approach.

One big thing for me recently was Lost Again, in which I couldn't imagine Bullzeye being bad and argued against his lynch. S~V~S successfully got him lynched and won us the game. If I had my way, we would have Lost. Again.

Another major reason I'll just mention, without going into it, is that our site is becoming too confrontational for some people, and I'm trying to make a conscious effort to avoid contributing to that. I know I'm not the only one.

If I get lynched because I'm not being aggressive, oh well.

Epi went to considerable effort to bring up past games and developments to explain why he might not appear as himself, but a lot of the things he references predate me coming to the Syndicate, and like I said, I was drawing reference from a game that ran concurrently with this one (Rocky & Bullwinkle), so none of what he says even applies, really. I am not used to Epi being so ready with reasons to explain a point of suspicion against him. When he's town, I've always seen him as a player who is very confident and thus doens't often need to defend himself the way he does here. Which makes me think perhaps he did feel the need to do so in this game, because the suspicion was legitimate.

[Sloonei]

Tbh I dont even know what he means. I don´t know Wilgy that well either.

That was a reference to something earlier in the game, where Wilgy brought up someone's scum game from Zodiac (SVS or Epi himself, I think) as a point of reference for this game. Epi dismisses that that game can be used at all, since 9 of the 12 players in it were scum so it wasn't a real game ("Maphia" is our name for that on RYM, let's bring that over here).

Yeah okay, thanks.

I think the first few days of Zodiac can be relevant. People didn´t know what the hell was going on, at least my team didn´t.

Linki~

Yes, and that is what I said to Epi. I was only in that game for 1 day before he killed me, so I don't discount any of my reads in my time there.

[Sloonei]

I was one of the three townies. Brofists to llama and g-man.

[Sloonei]

Okay Nero, the thing I didn't like about your chaindeath vote and the way you brought up the Prisoner's exercise in framing it was that you seemed to have your mind made up on where your vote was going to go before any of this got started, but you still gave the appearance of doing your homework before placing it on chaindeath.

Doing this again, but this time I will make no comments about what I think is likely or unlikely. You guys tell me.

Supposing the innocence of Sloonei and Turnip Head...

chaindeath

Spoiler: show

If chaindeath and Elohcin are town, cops are:
EPIGNOSIS
NEROLUNAR
SONEJI

If chaindeath and Epignosis are town, cops are:
ELOHCIN
NEROLUNAR
SONEJI

If chaindeath and Nerolunar are town, cops are:
ELOHCIN
EPIGNOSIS
SONEJI

If chaindeath and Soneji are town, cops are:
ELOHCIN
EPIGNOSIS
NEROLUNAR

Elohcin

Spoiler: show

If Elohcin and chaindeath are town, cops are:
Epignosis
Nerolunar
Soneji

If Elohcin and Epignosis are town, cops are:
chaindeath
Nerolunar
Soneji

If Elohcin and Nerolunar are town, cops are:
chaindeath
Epignosis
Soneji

If Elohcin and Soneji are town, cops are:
chaindeath
Epignosis
Nerolunar

Epignosis

Spoiler: show

If Epignosis and chaindeath are town, cops are:
Elohcin
Nerolunar
Soneji

If Epignosis and Elohcin are town, cops are:
chaindeath
Nerolunar
Soneji

If Epignosis and Nerolunar are town, cops are:
chaindeath
Elohcin
Soneji

If Epignosis and Soneji are town, cops are:
chaindeath
Epignosis
Nerolunar

Nerolunar

Spoiler: show

If Nerolunar and chaindeath are town, cops are:
Elohcin
Epignosis
Soneji

If Nerolunar and Elohcin are town, cops are:
chaindeath
Epignosis
Soneji

If Nerolunar and Epignosis are town, cops are:
chaindeath
Elohcin
Soneji

If Nerolunar and Soneji are town, cops are:
chaindeath
Elohcin
Epignosis

Soneji

Spoiler: show

If Soneji and chaindeath are town, cops are:
Elohcin
Epignosis
Nerolunar

If Soneji and Elohcin are town, cops are:
chaindeath
Epignosis
Nerolunar

If Soneji and Epignosis are town, cops are:
chaindeath
Elohcin
Nerolunar

If Soneji and Nerolunar are town, cops are:
chaindeath
Elohcin
Epignosis

Okay its the same.

Are anyone ready for a Chaindeath lynch now?

What I really want to ask if why did you feel the need to reference this post before putting your vote on chaindeath? It's not like you were coming up with a new suspicion. No new information is being brought to light by you doing this, but you did it anyway. You've been suspicious of chaindeath all game, and you're voting for him right now despite the apparent support in the poll for Epignosis, who is also on your suspect list. Why chaindeath and not Epignosis, and why did you need to reference the prisoner's post?

[Sloonei]

Sox go down 1, 2, 3 their first inning of the season. It's all over.