Mafia Championship Scrimmage [END]

[Tangrowth]

zebra, re: your post on Sloonei that I requested, I am largely in agreement with your observations. I'd say what looks worst in that batch of posts to me easily is Sloonei's vote post for zebra.

Thanks for substantiating some of the stuff you found when you ISOed him.

[Silverwolf]

IAWY-MP's points are a very superficial and amount to playstyle and I have him back at null

IAWY I would vote for and lynch in a heartbeat

VOTE INAWORDYES

Hahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahaha what the fuck.

Yes, hilarious. If you look at my earlier posts I had a scumread on him. He's better than the other people up for lynch, even as a null.

Thank You for laughing at me when I'm in a shit mood. That totally helps.

Helps what?

Is it not sensible to laugh when someone says that the case against a certain player is superficial and amounts to playstyle, then immediately says they would lynch that same player in a heart beat before switching their vote for him? Your earlier posts don't help this, they make it worse actually. Here's the timeline as I understand it:

1. You scumread IAWY.
2. You say that the case against him is superficial and amounts to playstyle, and that IAWY is "back at null" for you.
3. You say that you would vote for him and lynch him in a heartbeat.
4. You vote for him.

I'm sorry, why am I not supposed to laugh again?

I'm gonna give you the same consideration you've been giving me all game and tell you I don't give a fuck what you think. I've given plenty of thought on this so laugh at me all you want.

I don't care and I'm ignoring you for the rest of the day.

[a2thezebra]

IAWY-MP's points are a very superficial and amount to playstyle and I have him back at null

IAWY I would vote for and lynch in a heartbeat

VOTE INAWORDYES

Hahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahaha what the fuck.

whata bout it? if MP is scum voting scum its win-win

the thing is that most if not all setups have some protetive where numbers for sucms are the key so they can jsut go bussing willy nilly. if MP is bussing hes jsut gonna shoot himself in the foot long term

You completely missed the point. I'm not saying that MP could be bussing IAWY, and I'm not saying that Silverwolf was saying that either. I'm saying that her read of IAWY is hilariously inconsistent.

[Tangrowth]

I'm leaving in 10 minutes. I feel like I'm losing my fight this game.

I really don't care who we lynch today because my strong townreads are not under consideration.

ika isn't saying much and this has me very concerned

IAWY-MP's points are a very superficial and amount to playstyle and I have him back at null

sig isn't making me feel good either

That's all I have.

At what point did ika's lack of providing content get you concerned? You weren't concerned when I cased him. Not starting the discussion again, I'm genuinely curious when you started becoming more harsh on him.

[a2thezebra]

just that I'm not automatically mafia for being quiet.

Oh, no, I never thought you were playing specifically to a mafia meta. But, I do think that a lack of reads and connections (no matter how many posts you've got) is somewhat of a mafia meta on you, at least thats how I feel.

Ah I gotcha. Yeah, you're not wrong. My mafia meta tends to have narrower focus than my town meta.

[Tangrowth]

I'm leaving in 10 minutes. I feel like I'm losing my fight this game.

I really don't care who we lynch today because my strong townreads are not under consideration.

ika isn't saying much and this has me very concerned

IAWY-MP's points are a very superficial and amount to playstyle and I have him back at null

sig isn't making me feel good either

That's all I have.

Also, can you elaborate on sig when you get the chance? I had him as null for a while, but recently I'm feeling slight town.

[Soneji]

Through page 15:

Hello~

Psittacitform caught my eye. VOTE PSITTACITFORM. I see you there with your hand in the cookie jar. What have you to say for yourself!

Thanks for the welcome! Cookie jar? What cookies, vanilla? Because I have a vanilla here, not a cookie, however. :P

What I didn't like about your posts is that they seemed like an easy opportunistic set of early observations when there wasn't a whole lot of content to analyze. It's a good and easy way to establish yourself early on as a town leader.

I don't think you are the kind of person who would base a read only on that anyway when so much more is going to happen.
I'd like to believe same goes for sig.

I'll just note on this that Zexy is also prone to analyze anything he can and try to set himself up as a town leader, which can (at least partly) explain why he's going to Sig's defense here over that.

For what reason are you saying this? I didn't see anything that would prompt it. It reads as a preemptive defense to another players actions/playstyle.

On that note, I'm not, you won't hear from me unless I feel I have something worth saying.

I hope that you aren't limited in which fields you consider yourself knowledgeable enough on to have something worth saying.

Hi!

Hello.

Sig came in and tried to drag as much content out of things as he could. I'd like that if it didn't feel like such an effort to distance oneself from the label of low participation or scumminess.
Let's VOTE SIG

You'd usually like it but, don't this time? That doesn't make much sense.Also it is weird seeing how this is the beginning of day 1 so how would I be labeled as low participation if I hadn't had made any posts after my first one?

So why is it scummy that I'm posting and trying to get some content, since from where I sit it looks like your trying to stifle discussion.

He wasn't calling you out for low participation.

For reference, this is Marco randomly defending Sloonei from Sig.

Why would any player have incentive to defend another player, especially in the early stages where players are seeking reactions? Marco essentially forced Sig to not get the reactions from Marco, and shielded Marco from having to react.

From a Town perspective - It's possible Marco was shielding his town read, Sloonei, from abuse. Judging how Marco proceeded to vote me after I voted Sloonei, I would say assuming Marco!Town, Marco clearly has discovered a way to hard Town read Sloonei from a few troll RVS posts, a miracle to say the least.

From a Not Town Perspective - Marco!Town was acting not town by disallowing everyone in the game from seeing actual content argument between sig and marco, whereby we would be able to actively gauge v/w, v/v type of interactions. Instead Marco!Town was not town and cut these interactions shorts, and denied Marco's reaction

From a Scum Perspective - Marco!Scum comes from an informed perspective. Either he knows Sloonei is town and is trying to pocket him, or Marco is defending a wolf bro.

Of these scenarios, and because of Marco's previous TMI (Too Much Information) posts that suggest he's coming from an informed perspective, I'm much more inclined to deduce and FOS (Finger of Suspicion) Marco at this point OVER Sloonei.

There is a variation in which Sloonei is in fact Town - judging by Sloonei's aggressive behavior and general interactivity across the board, I'd like to bump Sloonei up from lean scum to cautious null.

I will also bump down Marco into a hard wolf read.

[flash=3]Vote: Marco[/flash]

I would say to this that Marco is the type of town player that actively tries to prevent "towning". He will point out the flaws in reasoning he disagrees with to prevent mislynches. In his response to sig there though, he doesn't point out what Sloonei was actually calling sig out for, which is generally what I'd think he'd do as town. He may have just thought it obvious but it gives me a slight mafia lean. Up to this point hes been too focused on talking mechanics. Not sure if he actually knowledge slipped though. The presumption of innocence on your part is necessary for him to even consider trying your strategy, as if you're mafia and do know the exact set-up then it wasn't beneficial in his view to spend time playing the role claim game. He misunderstood your actual strategy, which is easy for someone who comes from a site that doesn't have that type of metagame at all. Its also possible for it to have just been bait.

A town player can defend another player for what they perceive as incorrect or invalid lines of suspicion. I do not agree with your analysis, but I've not looked closely at Marco.

Also what do you mean when you call my posts "troll" posts? I made a confused face when I read that.

Its not as if there had been that many posters besides Marco up to this point that had been active. That you can't offer a more definitive opinion of him at this point is rather iffy. Whats the benefit of saying you disagree with his analysis if having paid closer attention to Marco would potentially change your view of its worth?

From a post a bit after this, its kind of dramatic to take one early joke post about being mafia as self-lynch baiting. Being hyper-aggressive constantly is also generally not good for town, its something the user AJ on my home site learned the hard way.

So far it seems all of us who are mixed in with this current grouping are unfamiliar with each other's playstyles and communities. I've never played with either Frog or Marco before, and I don't know whether or not they've played together but I think the answer is no. Either one of them can correct me if I'm wrong. But I think we should all be cautious before reading each other too strongly. Sometimes unfamiliarity can give the illusion of scumminess. I'll need to take a step back from all this to think more clearly. I am also slightly distracted at the moment.

I would say its best to just go with what we have to work with and not doubt our instincts.

So that's what it takes to get you guys to shut up for an hour and a half. I'm going to work now, be back in a while.

Frog, loving the point of view, maybe I'll try some of your logic out, if I'm not too lazy.

I would figure that that would have been a good opportunity for you to catch up on the thread.

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Thanks. That's perfect.

Unvote

Ooh, okay. So I'm gonna go ahead and poke Frog since I know him from MU games. Heyo! How are you? WHY ARE YOU MAFIA?!?!? *cough* Ahem,I mean, "would it possible in any sort of context unique to both this world and any potential alternate realities that you could inform our inquiring minds just as to the current state of this fine game as perceived from your self and, potentially, a hint as to the true nature of where your alignments lie, to which you could also potentially be lying to us with a bold face and would need to understandably be punished?


VOTE FROG

1 - lmao, you verbose SOAB. Keep content short and sweet plox
2 - You never claimed to rand town (suspicious as fish)
3 - I don't usually like engaging in RVS silliness, but I'm doing pretty decent thanks for asking :-D About to head out to the bar next door. Congrats on F3 in the princess game btw, I'll give you a hint with respect to one of my secret identities:

Spoiler: show

Our hero, the intrepid Spaceman Spiff, struggles with the controls of his damaged spacecraft!

Haha, I'm free of the shackles MU has placed upon me, here I can be my unconstrained, usual self. I don't usually claim town, it's not how I play (MU is a different beast altogether, I'm not me when I'm there, so The Syndicate is like a proverbial kit-kat bar haha.

Well ain't that spiffy.

Spoiler: show

Spaceman Spiffy! Sorry for being instrumental in your mislynch D1!

I'm really burnt out by it though, and I wished MU had Mods on Duty because one was desperately needed. I'm also gonna be busy all day tomorrow, so I'm just gonna take this game to relax and unwind and be my fun and crazy self haha. Not to say I'll be inactive! But I'm sure I won't post 100+ times in a day haha, nor will I need to be right on the pulse with the game as everything's happening. If anyone objects to that type of attitude btw, it's completely fine, I probably worded it wrong.

Now, to catch up with the rest of the game...

One of the weirdest preemptive defenses I've ever read. Its "fine if we object to the attitude you are proclaiming to have because we're probably misunderstanding you"?

I don't like this vote at all.

MP has been up front about his schedule and exactly when he will be trying to post. There are people who haven't posted at all. Feels like you are picking on the person who has self-admitted they will be quiet. And anyway, why exactly does he, specifically, need to post more?

As far as the detail of Zexy as scum - I don't know what you're missing? I've posted the reason I am pinged by him. There isn't anything more to it because it's a relatively small ping, what would you like me to explain more? What was the 'some content' that you liked? Was there part of it you didn't like?

Hey golden, remember heist and turf? Silver was spot on. Not only that but the people were lurkers.

Knowing someon Scedule does not excuse them from not posting. For me existing everything is scum tell 101.

Perot: and silver ninjas me

I know that you're super defensive of SW but its a bit hypocritical in that you would defend SW for not posting at particular times knowing her schedule, like how she earlier remarked on you being out of town so you might not be able to post.

[Dyslexicon]

Wait, Dizzy, I'm confused. In your first catchup post you say your first instinct says you should buy it, but then mostly in your second catchup post you start scum reading her behavior. Can you walk me through this? You lost me.

I guess it was my first instinct (and would probably generally be to such a play), but it's like she's playing it up too much. Too much emphasis that she is being sacrificial and don't want you lynched cause she is such a good town, and oh, how hard it is to find other people to suspect, who would ever do this as mafia, must be town right, or else she'd just bandwagon, and oh she is probably getting lynched (way too many hours before day ends to say that) - and what happens? Votes are off her like that. I see a lot of people not seeming interested in her lynch. Sig, among others (who I suspect).

It just doesn't read town play to me at all. I don't know why it seems to fly with people. Is this normal for her town meta or something? It's not the self vote in itself, it's how it's played off afterwards. She is clearly invested in her surviving.

[Golden]

Yes however, it is rare for a CFD to hit scum, and funny you should mention last game sine the CFD in the long run lead to towns defeat. We'd have been better without the CFD that game.

Who says? Honestly, the point of ANY day in mafia is to end with your vote on someone you feel comfortable lynching. It doesn't matter how you get there. What led to town loss in Turf Wars wasn't the CFD, is the fact the entire team was full of lurkers and we didn't listen to SW enough who said we should be lynching more lurkers.

We'd do better to do more lynching of lurkers here, I think. Look how successful it was in Arkham, for the most part. Bullets Over Broadway also leaps to mind.

[Tangrowth]

I cannot guarantee how much of this I will get through before the deadline. I see the thread will be locked at Night. That helps.

I look forward to your fresh perspective regardless of when it comes. I'm not sure I'd try to speedread the thread before deadline though; it'd be more advisable to take your time reading it and try to get everything read before the start of d2 if you can.

[ika]

I was agaisnt the CFD last game and look what that got me, so I need to think it over a bit. However, as of right now I'm agaisnt it. He doesn't really seem scummy at all. What is the case on him?

After reading him over I'm just seeing a culture clash.

hes lurking and sevral who know him say thats scum MO?

and not only that, but rememebr last game as you mentioned it was on scum?

Yes however, it is rare for a CFD to hit scum, and funny you should mention last game sine the CFD in the long run lead to towns defeat. We'd have been better without the CFD that game.

not really, fuzzy would of lived and we would of still had our emebers. if i was set for lynch i would of set myself to save them with ym flip. scum is scum no matter what angle you take, town lost due to the fact that they ate each ohter to death not to the CFD

Didn't MP even admit in his case it could be a cultural thing? If so I'm not sure I'm trusting MP right now. I've also got you Ika as a scum lean so I'm really not happy with it atm.

and yet your not voting me, and you ignored my centrla point i made others who know him are calling him scum too

Also he has already said he isn't playing his MU game, just like I'm not playing the same I do on TS all the time. So none of these people has seen his home site play. And I know for a fact I will switch my game play/meta based on the site I'm on.

again my cental point is this: others who know him say its his scum MO

answers in red

[a2thezebra]

Zebra and the self vote and then immediately being very committed to the game. Gurl. I see it as pretending to sacrifice, and then pretending to be unable to find a good scum case (towny right? Not wanting to just bandwagon. No.) ISO people to slightly defend them, like with Sloonie (makes Sloonie probs town if Zebra is mafia). Me no likey.

This isn't an unreasonable suspicion, but you still don't get that it wasn't really a sacrifice in my view since I figured that I would be mislynched anyway. I still think that to an extent, although there are a lot more people town-reading me now then there were before.

[Silverwolf]

I'm leaving in 10 minutes. I feel like I'm losing my fight this game.

I really don't care who we lynch today because my strong townreads are not under consideration.

ika isn't saying much and this has me very concerned

IAWY-MP's points are a very superficial and amount to playstyle and I have him back at null

sig isn't making me feel good either

That's all I have.

At what point did ika's lack of providing content get you concerned? You weren't concerned when I cased him. Not starting the discussion again, I'm genuinely curious when you started becoming more harsh on him.

I can't elaborate without discussing ongoing but he's been back in town long enough to give good content. He's starting to post more now so we'll see. I'm not lynching him today but I was very concerned he wasn't posting here.

I really gotta go. I'll be back before EoD.

[Marmot]

Oh god I'm so hungover.

Marco, I'll just sheep you for the EOD vote.

VOTE FROG

[Golden]

I'm leaving in 10 minutes. I feel like I'm losing my fight this game.

I really don't care who we lynch today because my strong townreads are not under consideration.

ika isn't saying much and this has me very concerned

IAWY-MP's points are a very superficial and amount to playstyle and I have him back at null

sig isn't making me feel good either

That's all I have.

At what point did ika's lack of providing content get you concerned? You weren't concerned when I cased him. Not starting the discussion again, I'm genuinely curious when you started becoming more harsh on him.

Actually, I think Silverwolf was expressing concerns about ika back then (or at least calling him a null read). She was just also defending him against your case. Silverwolf's feelings on ika have been complicated. I think she has been doing something very similar to what I've done with you where she has defended him against a case she thinks is bad while still consistently saying she doesn't have a town read.

[Tangrowth]

i am disappointed that everyone says "OH WE ARE LSITENING" but doesnt seem to actauly take it intoconsidera tion

Me too ika. Me too.

golden want to take a bet? if your lynch flips town you help my lynch MP (or a person of my choise) tommorow, if yours is right i will help you lynchaone of your choosing

deal?

i also extned this to anoyne who wants to take m up on a bet

[a2thezebra]

zebra, re: your post on Sloonei that I requested, I am largely in agreement with your observations. I'd say what looks worst in that batch of posts to me easily is Sloonei's vote post for zebra.

Thanks for substantiating some of the stuff you found when you ISOed him.

You're welcome.

[Frog]

Oh god I'm so hungover.

Marco, I'll just sheep you for the EOD vote.

VOTE FROG

lol, nvm, im fine here. GG

why are sloonei and mp giving me a mild hangover? Oh... it's just the alchol.

I think i'm still drunk... ugh

That CFD on IAWY was lol.

[sig]

Dizzy I've already admitted that most of my reads are tone/gut that is my early play. I've ISO'd a few people and gave my reads/thoughts based on posts, so I don't see how your saying my reads are all unaccounted? Especially my mafia reads/votes which I think I explained.

I think inaword voted for Sonjie as a poke/RVS and hasn't he been gone since? I really don't see how this is enough to start a CFD day 1.

Also what is this MP is scum voting for scum thing? See I think that is stupid. There is no reason for mafia to vote for each other day 1 with so few mafia members. Especially when it is close. I want to know why Ika seems to be setting up wagons for future days?

linki: Golden every single time A CFD has happened to me it has hurt town except for last game. Usually it is done by mafia or paranoid town. Also I'd argue the CFD didn't help since everyone was then to focused on the CFD people and tunneled on them avoiding the mafia who weren't for the most part agaisnt the wagon.

[ika]

i like how zebra complains about inconsistency when she is self admitted to make things up

[Dyslexicon]

Furthermore on Zebra - She's saying the problem with lynching a lurker is that there little info to be gain from it (fair comment, I agree), but then follows up by voting MM who's lurkish at this point, and basically what happens is MP sifting through lurkers to lynch (which I don't have a problem with really on his part), but it's like Zebra is getting others to find a case she can jump on while she plays the hero defending people.

So the not wanting lurkers lynched, then why 1. self vote when she was a lurker and 2. vote another lurker?

[a2thezebra]

I'm gonna give you the same consideration you've been giving me all game and tell you I don't give a fuck what you think. I've given plenty of thought on this so laugh at me all you want.

I don't care and I'm ignoring you for the rest of the day.

That's not an accurate impression of how much consideration that I've given you, because I do give a fuck what you think. That's why I find it worth pointing out that your read of IAWY seems extremely inconsistent, and that your response to me pointing that out only made it more clear.

[sig]

Oh god I'm so hungover.

Marco, I'll just sheep you for the EOD vote.

VOTE FROG

Yeah I'm fine with this vote brb.

[Marmot]

Oh god I'm so hungover.

Marco, I'll just sheep you for the EOD vote.

VOTE FROG

lol, nvm, im fine here. GG

why are sloonei and mp giving me a mild hangover? Oh... it's just the alchol.

I think i'm still drunk... ugh

That CFD on IAWY was lol.

That's not what I meant. :P I was hoping to motivate you to not just sheep... and I guess it worked?

VOTE SLOONEI

[Dyslexicon]

A wild Soneji appeared!

[ika]

i am disappointed that everyone says "OH WE ARE LSITENING" but doesnt seem to actauly take it intoconsidera tion

Me too ika. Me too.

golden want to take a bet? if your lynch flips town you help my lynch MP (or a person of my choise) tommorow, if yours is right i will help you lynchaone of your choosing

deal?

i also extned this to anoyne who wants to take m up on a bet

Hey i used it in truf and heist, its NAI if thats what your look it at :P

[Tangrowth]

I'm town and I'd like to keep playing, but keeping MP alive takes the top priority right now.

VOTE A2THEZEBRA

- What is this play? Sacrificial. Should I buy it? First instinct says yes. Then it's all "unlike when I'm scum I will not make things up, so I'm totes town being heroic". Meh. Why the "I have no scum reads" when you, Zebra, clearly have disagreements with players. I.e saying Golden should know better. Why not at least vote another lurker?
- Speaking of, I kind of don't want to see "you should know better" or "you're misrepping me!", I don't know it just irks me lol.

I'm not sure where you got that "unlike when I'm scum I will not make things up". I totally make shit up when I'm town, all the time. Where did I say or even imply otherwise? I also don't know where you got "I'm totes town being heroic." Granted, my self-vote was not a breakdown or anything, but I wouldn't call it heroic either. I figured that my mislynch was inevitable so I might as well get it over with and save MP in the process who I strongly believe is town. It's not that complicated and it's certainly not heroic. I also find it very hard to believe that you legitimately take issue with me having no scum reads simply because I'm constantly having disagreements with people. Are you seriously implying that I should read people as scummy just for disagreeing with them? For shame. I also find it laughable that you ask me to vote for another lurker when I've made it abundantly clear that I am against going for lurkers in general, not just because I was among them at the time of Frog's crusade.

Both sig and Golden have used the "you should know better" shtick before on me specifically, so I think it's fair. Sorry if it irks you though.

This makes me feel better about zebra. I'd now say she's one of my top town reads.

[Tangrowth]

Hey guys,

I'd like to apologize about my drunken ramblings. I'm 100X more sober and less offensive now :-P

[Golden]

@Sig - I agree that people tend to oversee bussing. I think bussing only happens when a player sees a demonstrable benefit.

[Golden]

i am disappointed that everyone says "OH WE ARE LSITENING" but doesnt seem to actauly take it intoconsidera tion

Me too ika. Me too.

golden want to take a bet? if your lynch flips town you help my lynch MP (or a person of my choise) tommorow, if yours is right i will help you lynchaone of your choosing

deal?

i also extned this to anoyne who wants to take m up on a bet

Hey i used it in truf and heist, its NAI if thats what your look it at :P

I agree. This seems like a normal ika gambit. I'd take you up on the bet if I felt like I had conviction in any given read, and I also felt like ika's read had merit. In Turf Wars, I did take the bet because I did feel that way. Here, I don't feel like either are true.

[Tangrowth]

Ok, looks like it'll be between moving pictures and metalmarsh.

As of right now metal marsh should be lynched because has most votes before EOD.

If MM and MP tie, the lynchs hould be randomized - but whoever votes last second is prob a wolf trying to save a wolf bro.

Have we decided whether or not this is a w/v, or w/w wagon?

Okay, do you suspect me or not? What's going on? You keep saying things like I'm obviously mafia, then you were saying you really think I'm town but I'm your tinfoil, now I'm a top contender for your vote again?

Also, what happened to your low poster plan?

Also, I've asked this and you haven't addressed it. What happened to your early game thoughts (which were seemingly strong) on Marco, Sloonei, etc.?

I'm confused.

[Marco]

Ok, looks like it'll be between moving pictures and metalmarsh.

As of right now metal marsh should be lynched because has most votes before EOD.

If MM and MP tie, the lynchs hould be randomized - but whoever votes last second is prob a wolf trying to save a wolf bro.

Have we decided whether or not this is a w/v, or w/w wagon?

As of this point, I don't think MP is scum. The thing is, I'm not a fan of his style of play. Not that it's a bad way to play. Just that I personally don't like it because it is harder for me to read because of a combination of things.

1. Using the thread as a sort-of notebook for one's thoughts. Such players will constantly pour their thoughts out, even while catching up ("I'm on Page 00 now and I find X, Y, Z and A points of discussion interesting).
2. Always making it a point to keep everyone informed about one's current level of engagement ("I'll be driving for the next few hours", "in an exam for a couple hours", "am on my desktop and catching up", etc).
3. Laying out one's rationale behind everything ("I found this line in this exact post by Y during this conversation odd, especially in context with X's post that Y chose to ignore").
4. Always, ALWAYS, engaging others from a position of respect. They will keep trying to empathize with and getting their adversaries to empathize with themselves ("You're should try to look at it from my POV").
5. Acting as guides to anyone that requires. Just generally very helpful to everyone and affable.

Basically, they're things townies should do. But when you get really good at doing all this, it doesn't take much effort to act the same as scum. And it's hard to "catch" such scum because of the nature in which they engage you and because by appearing to be completely transparent, they have plausible deniability for a lot of scummy behaviour.

I went off on a tangent there, but basically, I can imagine MP being scum. He definitely seems capable of it. But he's definitely not worth a Day 1 lynch. Despite my dislike for his playstyle, I also have to admit that his high level of engagement and activity means that it's objectively better to keep him alive longer as we'll get more interaction from him and everyone else.

But yeah, gun to the head, I think he's town.

[ika]

I'm gonna give you the same consideration you've been giving me all game and tell you I don't give a fuck what you think. I've given plenty of thought on this so laugh at me all you want.

I don't care and I'm ignoring you for the rest of the day.

That's not an accurate impression of how much consideration that I've given you, because I do give a fuck what you think. That's why I find it worth pointing out that your read of IAWY seems extremely inconsistent, and that your response to me pointing that out only made it more clear.

SIgh.......

here, let me give some adivce, instigating her about such things like that is only gonna upset her, you saw me get upset too in heist, we are similar in that sense.

i think the biggest issue we (and yes i use we cus its me too that im seeing) is that both sides of us (ie me and silver vs everyone else) is insinuating that the ohter is wrong. its a matter of interpretation to us. when people just dont openly say "well i disagree for XYZ" for me at least, that's literally saying "nope you're wrong"

and maybe it has been said sevral times like that but we are jsut annyoed that we feel like everyon eis just not actaly taking the POV into consideration and trying to follow up on it

[a2thezebra]

Wait, Dizzy, I'm confused. In your first catchup post you say your first instinct says you should buy it, but then mostly in your second catchup post you start scum reading her behavior. Can you walk me through this? You lost me.

I guess it was my first instinct (and would probably generally be to such a play), but it's like she's playing it up too much. Too much emphasis that she is being sacrificial and don't want you lynched cause she is such a good town, and oh, how hard it is to find other people to suspect, who would ever do this as mafia, must be town right, or else she'd just bandwagon, and oh she is probably getting lynched (way too many hours before day ends to say that) - and what happens? Votes are off her like that. I see a lot of people not seeming interested in her lynch. Sig, among others (who I suspect).

It just doesn't read town play to me at all. I don't know why it seems to fly with people. Is this normal for her town meta or something? It's not the self vote in itself, it's how it's played off afterwards. She is clearly invested in her surviving.

Okay that's it you're just making shit up. Playing it up too much? Not one time did I imply that I was "such a good town" for self-voting. Quite the opposite, actually. I self-voted because I found MP more valuable even as a potential baddie then my role as town. How is that patting myself on the back? In fact, how is it not the opposite? Then you just go on to paraphrase my actions and color them as if they are disingenuous while giving absolutely no reason to perceive them as disingenuous to begin with.

Of course I'm invested in my surviving. WHY WOULDN'T I BE?! I have said multiple times both when I initially self-voted and in my response to you, that the only reason I self-voted was because I felt that my mislynching was inevitable in the first place.

[ika]

I'm gonna give you the same consideration you've been giving me all game and tell you I don't give a fuck what you think. I've given plenty of thought on this so laugh at me all you want.

I don't care and I'm ignoring you for the rest of the day.

That's not an accurate impression of how much consideration that I've given you, because I do give a fuck what you think. That's why I find it worth pointing out that your read of IAWY seems extremely inconsistent, and that your response to me pointing that out only made it more clear.

SIgh.......

here, let me give some adivce, instigating her about such things like that is only gonna upset her, you saw me get upset too in heist, we are similar in that sense.

i think the biggest issue we (and yes i use we cus its me too that im seeing) is that both sides of us (ie me and silver vs everyone else) is insinuating that the ohter is wrong. its a matter of interpretation to us. when people just dont openly say "well i disagree for XYZ" for me at least, that's literally saying "nope you're wrong"

and maybe it has been said sevral times like that but we are jsut annyoed that we feel like everyon eis just not actaly taking the POV into consideration and trying to follow up on it

Personall this is prob better severed at OT but i feel like it was also game related

[a2thezebra]

We'd do better to do more lynching of lurkers here, I think.

I cannot stress enough how much I disagree with this view.

[Tangrowth]

Glad to see others follow on IAWY; I still stand by my ISO, even if zebra did raise some counterpoints I'm still considering. Even with those counterpoints, I think IAWY is at least a stronger lynch than MM, Sloonei, or any of the other major options that have been discussed.

[Marmot]

Wait, Dizzy, I'm confused. In your first catchup post you say your first instinct says you should buy it, but then mostly in your second catchup post you start scum reading her behavior. Can you walk me through this? You lost me.

I guess it was my first instinct (and would probably generally be to such a play), but it's like she's playing it up too much. Too much emphasis that she is being sacrificial and don't want you lynched cause she is such a good town, and oh, how hard it is to find other people to suspect, who would ever do this as mafia, must be town right, or else she'd just bandwagon, and oh she is probably getting lynched (way too many hours before day ends to say that) - and what happens? Votes are off her like that. I see a lot of people not seeming interested in her lynch. Sig, among others (who I suspect).

It just doesn't read town play to me at all. I don't know why it seems to fly with people. Is this normal for her town meta or something? It's not the self vote in itself, it's how it's played off afterwards. She is clearly invested in her surviving.

Okay that's it you're just making shit up. Playing it up too much? Not one time did I imply that I was "such a good town" for self-voting. Quite the opposite, actually. I self-voted because I found MP more valuable even as a potential baddie then my role as town. How is that patting myself on the back? In fact, how is it not the opposite? Then you just go on to paraphrase my actions and color them as if they are disingenuous while giving absolutely no reason to perceive them as disingenuous to begin with.

Of course I'm invested in my surviving. WHY WOULDN'T I BE?! I have said multiple times both when I initially self-voted and in my response to you, that the only reason I self-voted was because I felt that my mislynching was inevitable in the first place.

I thought it was to save MP?

[Golden]

We'd do better to do more lynching of lurkers here, I think.

I cannot stress enough how much I disagree with this view.

I don't mean 'in this game on this day' but 'on this site'. We do let them slide too much.

[Tangrowth]

IAWY-MP's points are a very superficial and amount to playstyle and I have him back at null

IAWY I would vote for and lynch in a heartbeat

VOTE INAWORDYES

Hahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahaha what the fuck.

I have to admit I'm confused here as well. What changed, Silver? You seemingly found him suspicious, then I called him suspicious and you made him null, but now you want to vote for him again? I don't see anything else in your history that demonstrates the turnaround.

[a2thezebra]

i like how zebra complains about inconsistency when she is self admitted to make things up

What does inconsistency have to do with making things up?

[Frog]

Ok, looks like it'll be between moving pictures and metalmarsh.

As of right now metal marsh should be lynched because has most votes before EOD.

If MM and MP tie, the lynchs hould be randomized - but whoever votes last second is prob a wolf trying to save a wolf bro.

Have we decided whether or not this is a w/v, or w/w wagon?

Okay, do you suspect me or not? What's going on? You keep saying things like I'm obviously mafia, then you were saying you really think I'm town but I'm your tinfoil, now I'm a top contender for your vote again?

Also, what happened to your low poster plan?

Also, I've asked this and you haven't addressed it. What happened to your early game thoughts (which were seemingly strong) on Marco, Sloonei, etc.?

I'm confused.

You misunderstand my original post.

I'm hungover, literally just typing what I saw. MM had 4 votes, and MP had 3 votes. Then there was a random CFD to move over to IAWYS.

What do I think of you? You're pretty dece.

What do I think of Marco + Sloonei etc. They're pretty dece

I'm trying not to create unnecessary TvTs today. I've sparked just enough fight with most people so ev eryone has already been pressure tested.

As for voting the slankers:
Yeah, I'm not changing my vote off of MetalMarsh.

I could be tempted into voting:
pilformys
Dr willy
A2theZebra

But I'm most likely just going to stay put on metal marsh.

Dude just randomly OMGUS voted me, lol.

[Tangrowth]

I was agaisnt the CFD last game and look what that got me, so I need to think it over a bit. However, as of right now I'm agaisnt it. He doesn't really seem scummy at all. What is the case on him?

After reading him over I'm just seeing a culture clash.

Here's my IAWY ISO. Let me know what you think.

[a2thezebra]

Furthermore on Zebra - She's saying the problem with lynching a lurker is that there little info to be gain from it (fair comment, I agree), but then follows up by voting MM who's lurkish at this point, and basically what happens is MP sifting through lurkers to lynch (which I don't have a problem with really on his part), but it's like Zebra is getting others to find a case she can jump on while she plays the hero defending people.

So the not wanting lurkers lynched, then why 1. self vote when she was a lurker and 2. vote another lurker?

But see, I'm okay with lynching lurkers as long as they're not being lynched simply for being lurkers. This is why I'm comfortable with some of the options MP has mentioned. I went over my self-vote extensively and I'm not going to again just because you want to pretend that you don't understand it.

[Marco]

Oh god I'm so hungover.

Marco, I'll just sheep you for the EOD vote.

Well, how do you feel about IAWY lynch now? Cause he's my biggest scum-read. I'm willing to go for a MetalMarsh lynch too.

[Tangrowth]

IAWY-MP's points are a very superficial and amount to playstyle and I have him back at null

IAWY I would vote for and lynch in a heartbeat

VOTE INAWORDYES

Hahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahaha what the fuck.

Yes, hilarious. If you look at my earlier posts I had a scumread on him. He's better than the other people up for lynch, even as a null.

Thank You for laughing at me when I'm in a shit mood. That totally helps.

Hope your mood lightens and your day gets better.

[a2thezebra]

@Sig - I agree that people tend to oversee bussing. I think bussing only happens when a player sees a demonstrable benefit.

For the record, I agree with this too.

[Tangrowth]

@MP Can you ISO MM and tell me what you think?

*brain explodes*

Yeah, I can do it, but it likely won't be until after D2 has begun. I'm not sure my brain can handle any more ISOs. That Wilgy one broke me.

[sig]

I think MM is trying to joke his way out of this lynch, by switching around and appearing jokey not serious mafia. I dislike his posts alot, they give no content what so ever, but makes him seem no lurky compared to other people.

@Golden I don't understand what you mean about over bussing?

[Golden]

@Golden I don't understand what you mean about over bussing?

Essentially that I agree with you that scum aren't likely to be falling over each other to bus their own teammates on day 1, unless they have a specific good reason to do it.