Mafia Championship Scrimmage [END]

[Epignosis]

Seriously, back in forty. And after a forty.

[Marco]

Either way, I don't see how expecting you to be available at EOD is a difficult standard.

It's a ridiculous standard. If rl calls me away from EOD, rl wins.

True. But does that mean if someone doesn't get called away, they had a difficult time being available? RL is a valid reason for not being around, but that doesn't mean it's a difficult standard or that people won't remark on your absence if it's unexpected.

[Dyslexicon]

What if I told you that this sort of thing is not atypical of zebra? I do not disagree that she is a reasonable suspect, and my vote for her earlier wasn't entirely baseless, but what you just described is something that I can believably see zebra doing as a townie. I've played many games with that zebra and the aggressive behavior you are describing is not atypical.

I can get behind the theory that she is trying to present an image as a "sacrificial town", but I do not think that has to be the case when reading her.

Alright, noted. But do you think she could do it as scum as well?
I'm mostly freaked out why I'm the only one suspecting this, and everyone else is like "let's lynch a random lurker or something lol".

[Marco]

I've made a rainbow list.

Spoiler: show

Is there no rep system on this board?

thats the last thing needed on a site

Really? I like repping for things I like. And it provides a nice "snapshots" in your CP.

[Dyslexicon]

I also noticed in my pop ins that ika and Silverwolf have followed each other all over the board in votes. Is that a correct assessment?

They definitely followed each other on to me, and MP, and IAWY.

Ika kind of openly admitted to sheep Silver though, no?

[Golden]

What would be helpful is if each person said in a single sentence whom they want me to vote and why.

I want you to vote on any person who has a decent chance of being lynched because this could be helpful in later vote analysis, and I see it as potentially the best use of a relatively uninformed vote.

[Dyslexicon]

Frog, If you believe MM to be scum then you should show this. Why are you not fighting to have that lynch harder then?

[Marmot]

Here is a rainbow list.

Marco
Epignosis
Dyslexicon
Silverwolf
Soneji
Zexy
DrWilgy
Frog
Golden
Inawordyes
ika
Psittaciform
sig
a2thezebra
MovingPictures07
Sloonei

I can't take this rainbow seriously when the most confident bottom read is so wrong.

Of course you can. You can explain to me why you shouldn't be lynched.

I've already made my case. I don't like your responses either. Your response, because you put the responsibility on others. You said you scumread Frog, but are following him anyway based on what other people have said. In your response, you also apologized for "taking a spot in the game". I also have a tin-foil theory that you and MP are scum buddies.

I do like your more recent contributions over the last 30 minutes or so better.

But that is why you are my top scumread.

[Golden]

So how about a counterwagon onto Soneji? Now that he has made a less then inspiring entrance.

Why would you want to start a cw? Is IAWY that strong town to you? And why not give Sonjei time to catch up?

Are you serious right now? YOU are lynching IAWY when he isn't here or caught up. And you make it seem bad I'm saying the same thing?

You are objecting to a 'CFD' (your words - I don't think a couple of people voting together for someone they both suspect is a CFD at all) but then you want to create a CFD of your own.

I mean, this is like bread and butter 'why sig got lynched day one again'. But you are being inconsistent.

[Tangrowth]

Hey all, I haven't read any more, and I don't intend on doing that until d2 assuming I survive the night, but here's a new d1 rainbow list, as promised. It'll inevitably need to be updated after I do more ISOs and the d1 flip. Also, I separated out LC and Epi into two categories to distinguish the reads.

Rainbow List #2

Strong Town:
N/A

Moderate Town:
Marco
a2thezebra
Dyslexicon

Slight Town:
Golden
Metalmarsh89
sig
Silverwolf
Sloonei
Zexy

Null:
Epignosis
Soneji
DrWilgy

Slight Mafia:
Psittacitform
Long Con
ika
Frog

Moderate Mafia:
inawordyes

Strong Mafia:
N/A

See you all later, hopefully.

[Sloonei]

What if I told you that this sort of thing is not atypical of zebra? I do not disagree that she is a reasonable suspect, and my vote for her earlier wasn't entirely baseless, but what you just described is something that I can believably see zebra doing as a townie. I've played many games with that zebra and the aggressive behavior you are describing is not atypical.

I can get behind the theory that she is trying to present an image as a "sacrificial town", but I do not think that has to be the case when reading her.

Alright, noted. But do you think she could do it as scum as well?
I'm mostly freaked out why I'm the only one suspecting this, and everyone else is like "let's lynch a random lurker or something lol".

I would not rule her out as a suspect for any of this, no. Keep on with the suspicion.

I definitely do not approve of an End of Day where the dominant discussion is about which lurker to lynch. Lynching a lurker is what you do when analysis of actual content fails you. I don't think this town is incapable of analyzing things and picking a better candidate out of the chatter. What are everyone's thoughts on the noisy people?

[Marmot]

I don't think I've ever seen a scummy marmot. Maybe once, on RYM a while ago.

I was mafia once on RYM.

But in that game (hosted by zebra), everyone was mafia, so that one doesn't count. :P

[Golden]

Also, what do we get out of lynching INAWORD? If he's scum, then yay, we get scum so that's good. But if he's town we don't really get anything.

Don't really think MM is scum (haven't read all his posts though).

we remove someone whos doing jack shit in a game

i will 100% persue someone not posting then someone posting.

jsut join us plz we can do zebra tommorw

No, we can do Zebra now. If INAWORD flips town then we're at the same place tomorrow. He's just null, he may be scum, may be town, but the case is largely "meh" at this point and it's kind of lazy for a D1, just hoping to get lucky.

Look at how passionate people are in the for and against camps, you included. Are you really saying we are getting nothing?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The Day 1 deadline is in 39 minutes at precisely 10:00 PM Eastern US/Canada time.

I will accept votes at 10:00 but not at 10:01. All votes must be cast in the thread and in the poll. Please try to capitalize all votes AND use the large font size.

[Golden]

Well I messed that up. click? click?

At the time, it was a tie.

Whoops, I got my resposes mixed up. This was directed at Golden.

It didn't quite answer the question, though.

[Golden]

I also noticed in my pop ins that ika and Silverwolf have followed each other all over the board in votes. Is that a correct assessment?

They definitely followed each other on to me, and MP, and IAWY.

Ika kind of openly admitted to sheep Silver though, no?

I don't understand 'sheep'.

[Marmot]

Well I messed that up. click? click?

At the time, it was a tie.

Whoops, I got my resposes mixed up. This was directed at Golden.

It didn't quite answer the question, though.

I will let you come up with the answer on your own.

[Dyslexicon]

Look at how passionate people are in the for and against camps, you included. Are you really saying we are getting nothing?

I'm talking about his content now. I haven't read all the posts surrounding MM and IAWY even. I don't particularly feel MM is scum and there's no way of knowing IAWY's alignment. Also, I fear that if IAWY flips town then there's a lot of town on his wagon, and scum can easily defend it and throw suspicion on town later. It's just a much higher risk to me lynching someone who has barely talked.

[Marmot]

I also noticed in my pop ins that ika and Silverwolf have followed each other all over the board in votes. Is that a correct assessment?

They definitely followed each other on to me, and MP, and IAWY.

Ika kind of openly admitted to sheep Silver though, no?

I don't understand 'sheep'.

"Sheep" is roughly equivalent to "follow", "mimic", "copy", etc, but with a strong intent to not make the decision oneself and let the person they are sheeping make the decision.

[Dyslexicon]

I don't understand 'sheep'.

Following the vote of.

Do you think Zebra is town, Golden?

[ika]

Look at how passionate people are in the for and against camps, you included. Are you really saying we are getting nothing?

I'm talking about his content now. I haven't read all the posts surrounding MM and IAWY even. I don't particularly feel MM is scum and there's no way of knowing IAWY's alignment. Also, I fear that if IAWY flips town then there's a lot of town on his wagon, and scum can easily defend it and throw suspicion on town later. It's just a much higher risk to me lynching someone who has barely talked.

disagree 100%

are you willingt o take a bet on the flip then?

[Marmot]

Look at how passionate people are in the for and against camps, you included. Are you really saying we are getting nothing?

I'm talking about his content now. I haven't read all the posts surrounding MM and IAWY even. I don't particularly feel MM is scum and there's no way of knowing IAWY's alignment. Also, I fear that if IAWY flips town then there's a lot of town on his wagon, and scum can easily defend it and throw suspicion on town later. It's just a much higher risk to me lynching someone who has barely talked.

If this is definitely going to happen, you should point out to us later which scum is easily throwing suspicion on the townies.

[Sloonei]

Here is a rainbow list.

Marco
Epignosis
Dyslexicon
Silverwolf
Soneji
Zexy
DrWilgy
Frog
Golden
Inawordyes
ika
Psittaciform
sig
a2thezebra
MovingPictures07
Sloonei

I can't take this rainbow seriously when the most confident bottom read is so wrong.

Of course you can. You can explain to me why you shouldn't be lynched.

I've already made my case. I don't like your responses either. Your response, because you put the responsibility on others. You said you scumread Frog, but are following him anyway based on what other people have said. In your response, you also apologized for "taking a spot in the game". I also have a tin-foil theory that you and MP are scum buddies.

I do like your more recent contributions over the last 30 minutes or so better.

But that is why you are my top scumread.

I don't have time to play this game, so instead of trying to read everything I just asked the thread to throw ideas at me and I'd react to them. I am doing the same thing right now, so if you like these posts better than those ones then I guess that could explain why you're misreading me. Or you're bad and you're just trying to spin things against me. ika threw a name at me and I asked him to explain why. Frog gave me four names with a bit of an explanation behind them, so I responded to his suggestion. Just because I have or had a scum read on him does not mean I should assume he's scum. He gave me a suggestion and I followed it. zebra was the name I liked best so I moved my vote there.

I am not putting responsibility on others, I am only asking for their help so that I can make informed decisions.

[Frog]

Frog, If you believe MM to be scum then you should show this. Why are you not fighting to have that lynch harder then?

bc drunk hangover lazy

[Sloonei]

It's taking me longer to wade through the linki than it is to type these posts.

[Marco]

@MetalMarsh89, you may have missed this.

@MetalMarsh, how highly would you rate your own scum-game? And can you describe one or two of your best scum performances, preferably with links to them?

[Dyslexicon]

Look at how passionate people are in the for and against camps, you included. Are you really saying we are getting nothing?

I'm talking about his content now. I haven't read all the posts surrounding MM and IAWY even. I don't particularly feel MM is scum and there's no way of knowing IAWY's alignment. Also, I fear that if IAWY flips town then there's a lot of town on his wagon, and scum can easily defend it and throw suspicion on town later. It's just a much higher risk to me lynching someone who has barely talked.

disagree 100%

are you willingt o take a bet on the flip then?

Wtf with this bet thing? Are you so sure IAWY is going to flip scum?

[Golden]

If I was to do some kind of tinfoil CFD vote, it would probably be Frog.

His trying to constantly reduce things to mechanical rules about what scum would do are not only obviously fallacious (because the moment rules develop around 'what scum would do', scum deliberately act counter to that) but also feel like someone making a play for town leader.

I see Frog's content almost as deliberate wifom - on one hand I can read it as trying to avoid being the NK target. On the other as trying to avoid being the lynch target. The one thing I have difficulty seeing it as is absolutely straight. He started off feeling quite straightforward to me, but he's wobbled his way off the road.

[Sloonei]

If I was to do some kind of tinfoil CFD vote, it would probably be Frog.

His trying to constantly reduce things to mechanical rules about what scum would do are not only obviously fallacious (because the moment rules develop around 'what scum would do', scum deliberately act counter to that) but also feel like someone making a play for town leader.

I see Frog's content almost as deliberate wifom - on one hand I can read it as trying to avoid being the NK target. On the other as trying to avoid being the lynch target. The one thing I have difficulty seeing it as is absolutely straight. He started off feeling quite straightforward to me, but he's wobbled his way off the road.

Yes. I also felt like he swatted away a lot of my earlier prods without actually responding to them. He'd just say that I was wrong without a direct reference to my case.

[ika]

Look at how passionate people are in the for and against camps, you included. Are you really saying we are getting nothing?

I'm talking about his content now. I haven't read all the posts surrounding MM and IAWY even. I don't particularly feel MM is scum and there's no way of knowing IAWY's alignment. Also, I fear that if IAWY flips town then there's a lot of town on his wagon, and scum can easily defend it and throw suspicion on town later. It's just a much higher risk to me lynching someone who has barely talked.

disagree 100%

are you willingt o take a bet on the flip then?

Wtf with this bet thing? Are you so sure IAWY is going to flip scum?

if your willing to take a bet i might answer

[Dyslexicon]

If I was to do some kind of tinfoil CFD vote, it would probably be Frog.

His trying to constantly reduce things to mechanical rules about what scum would do are not only obviously fallacious (because the moment rules develop around 'what scum would do', scum deliberately act counter to that) but also feel like someone making a play for town leader.

I see Frog's content almost as deliberate wifom - on one hand I can read it as trying to avoid being the NK target. On the other as trying to avoid being the lynch target. The one thing I have difficulty seeing it as is absolutely straight. He started off feeling quite straightforward to me, but he's wobbled his way off the road.

Agree with this. He has taked quite a leap. And the "this is the rule" is just so meh.

[Golden]

I don't understand 'sheep'.

Following the vote of.

Do you think Zebra is town, Golden?

At this point, I lean slight town on zebra. It's much more of a reactive gut read to how things have gone down today, than a measured one. But I won't be voting zebra today.

[Marco]

I see Frog's content almost as deliberate wifom - on one hand I can read it as trying to avoid being the NK target. On the other as trying to avoid being the lynch target. The one thing I have difficulty seeing it as is absolutely straight. He started off feeling quite straightforward to me, but he's wobbled his way off the road.

We'll be in a better position to judge that once we see a couple flips.

[Dyslexicon]

if your willing to take a bet i might answer

I don't care about your bet. Sure. Yes. No. Fine, whatever, tell me. How sure are you based on what?

[Dyslexicon]

But I won't be voting zebra today.

I know. =)

[ika]

if your willing to take a bet i might answer

I don't care about your bet. Sure. Yes. No. Fine, whatever, tell me. How sure are you based on what?

so the bet is this, if hes scum i get your vote, if hes town you have my vote

deal?

(yes im being like this intentionally, i want to see more from you as well)

[Sloonei]

I lean town on Psittaciform’s first post. Because meta. Only a lean, though.

What Frog’s done in the beginning is scummy (strategy talk + RVS hypocrisy), but votes piled up a bit too easily which made me paranoid, mostly about Marco. And Frog’s accusations of Marco are really good and he brings up towny points, although he overdoes it with TMI at some point. And there’s some tunneling going on here. I have more trouble accepting a Marco/Sloonei team than just Marco being mafia in the two.

Yet when it comes to Sloonei VS Frog, while Sloonei looks like he wins the argument easily, there is paranoia that kicks in as well. Sloonei’s cases are a bit too perfect. If he is so good, assuming he’s town, it means he could be good scum as well…

That’s it for now, will be back later.

Lol, nothing is scummy- I'm suggesting optimal strategy and pointing out things to keep eyes on. Literally none of my points have been refuted on a logical basis- all of my perspectives, warrants and basis for claims remain intact. Instead we see Sloonei and Marco discrediting my content based on fallacious logic, often times side stepping my points entirely.

It's quite sad to see your scum game Zexy

Ultimately you're shoving a false narrative that straddles every side. I don't like it.

For instance, here he is saying exactly what I just said about him. Frog's case against Marco and I at this time, and he can add any points that I'm missing if he wants, was that Marco and I were working together because Marco responded to sig when sig misunderstood something I said. Based on that, Frog made up a relationship between Marco and I which I'm still confused about. He clung to it and dragged us both through the mud. We kept trying to explain this to him, and yet he accuses us of "discrediting my content based on fallacious logic, often times side stepping my points entirely." And he never addressed any of the things I said about him.

[Golden]

I see Frog's content almost as deliberate wifom - on one hand I can read it as trying to avoid being the NK target. On the other as trying to avoid being the lynch target. The one thing I have difficulty seeing it as is absolutely straight. He started off feeling quite straightforward to me, but he's wobbled his way off the road.

We'll be in a better position to judge that once we see a couple flips.

Well, I mean, one flip if it was Frog

[Silverwolf]

So how about a counterwagon onto Soneji? Now that he has made a less then inspiring entrance.

Why would you want to start a cw? Is IAWY that strong town to you? And why not give Sonjei time to catch up?

Are you serious right now? YOU are lynching IAWY when he isn't here or caught up. And you make it seem bad I'm saying the same thing?

You are objecting to a 'CFD' (your words - I don't think a couple of people voting together for someone they both suspect is a CFD at all) but then you want to create a CFD of your own.

I mean, this is like bread and butter 'why sig got lynched day one again'. But you are being inconsistent.

Yeah, I also noticed he didn't answer my questions.

[Marco]

if your willing to take a bet i might answer

I don't care about your bet. Sure. Yes. No. Fine, whatever, tell me. How sure are you based on what?

It's just his read. He can't actually have concrete knowledge.

[Epignosis]

Back a moment.

I think Frog is using the drinking as a maneuver. He's overplaying it. He's reminding us that he was drunk, reminding us that he's got a hangover- to what end? It's not as if getting a hangover is a noteworthy achievement, and so I don't see why that should impair your ability to participate. If you have a headache, go lie down. If you think you can push through the headache, push through.

But don't keep harping on how drunk you got and how much of a hangover you have now. Only bea does that, and she sticks to the former like a trooper.

Ah, but what do I know about drinking? I only have a snifter of brandy around the holidays.

[Marmot]

@MetalMarsh89, you may have missed this.

@MetalMarsh, how highly would you rate your own scum-game? And can you describe one or two of your best scum performances, preferably with links to them?

My scum game is decent I think, or at least was because I've been drawing a lot of civilian/Indy roles lately. I went through a stretch here where I won several games as scum though, and I'll link you a few.


Death Note - We mafia tore the civilians apart in this game, for the most part. But there was a caveat: I was an unlynchable and unnightkillable scum who did not need to be dead for the civilians to win.

Pikmin - This would be my most recent game as scum. I had a strong start to the game, but due to the game falling around Christmas time, my participation dropped, and I was eventually lynched. Overall, I played a relatively good game, and my lynch was not detrimental to our cause, and we won anyway.

Recruitment IV - This was a recruitment game, so it had its own special style to make if different than a normal mafia game. But similar to Death Note, I had an unkillable, unlynchable role again. :P I have a tendency to draw those.

[Frog]

More aggro plox. You're giving me increasingly better night cover :-D

[ika]

delex the reason is due to experince, i have been playing for 4 years and just about every times (maybe like a handfull of games out of the 1000s of games i have played) have the scums always been acitve, there is about 90% scums in lurk so im doing this based on experince

[Epignosis]

VOTE: FROG

[Marco]

Ultimately you're shoving a false narrative that straddles every side. I don't like it.

For instance, here he is saying exactly what I just said about him. Frog's case against Marco and I at this time, and he can add any points that I'm missing if he wants, was that Marco and I were working together because Marco responded to sig when sig misunderstood something I said. Based on that, Frog made up a relationship between Marco and I which I'm still confused about. He clung to it and dragged us both through the mud. We kept trying to explain this to him, and yet he accuses us of "discrediting my content based on fallacious logic, often times side stepping my points entirely." And he never addressed any of the things I said about him.[/quote]

Frog moved on from us long ago. Both of us are his town reads now.

[Sloonei]

Back a moment.

I think Frog is using the drinking as a maneuver. He's overplaying it. He's reminding us that he was drunk, reminding us that he's got a hangover- to what end? It's not as if getting a hangover is a noteworthy achievement, and so I don't see why that should impair your ability to participate. If you have a headache, go lie down. If you think you can push through the headache, push through.

But don't keep harping on how drunk you got and how much of a hangover you have now. Only bea does that, and she sticks to the former like a trooper.

Ah, but what do I know about drinking? I only have a snifter of brandy around the holidays.

At least he's not playing fantasy basketball.

[Dyslexicon]

so the bet is this, if hes scum i get your vote, if hes town you have my vote

deal?

(yes im being like this intentionally, i want to see more from you as well)

Deal.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The Day 1 deadline is in 22 minutes at precisely 10:00 PM Eastern US/Canada time.

I will accept votes at 10:00 but not at 10:01. All votes must be cast in the thread and in the poll. Please try to capitalize all votes AND use the large font size.

[Sloonei]

Epi is town, by the way.