Mafia Championship Scrimmage [END]

#3301

sig wrote:soooo does anyone else besides Ika/Mp/Golden wanna post?

I was posting...

#3302

DrWilgy wrote:
sig wrote:soooo does anyone else besides Ika/Mp/Golden wanna post?
I was posting...

Well like the last two pages was them arguing, it wasn't a slam on the other players.

#3303

What do you think about being on the same wagon as Soneji your supposed red check?

#3304

Props to MP for the ISO thingies he's been doing. That seems civvy.

So I find his MM thing interesting I've been tunnely on MM and looking back it seems like I was being to paranoid, but this does bring some back. I'm shelfing MM for the time though and would rather not lynch him.

I think Zebra looks the worse from these followed by Wilgy.

#3305

sig wrote:soooo does anyone else besides Ika/Mp/Golden wanna post?

ok

#3306

sig wrote:What do you think about being on the same wagon as Soneji your supposed red check?

Indifferent. I don't really have a read on Ji-San.

#3307

MovingPictures07 wrote:I've gotten sidetracked and not really started the MM interaction yet. I still hope to get the rest of these done tonight, but we'll see.

This is probably the highest density of on-topic material I've had in a game ever.

So hopefully you won't bash your head through too many walls reading it.

#3308

Golden wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Golden wrote:Oh. Why are we having a 60 hour day?

Thats actually really annoying lol.
It's the weekend; that's how the games went last year even in 36/12 games. Weekends were 60/12.
In that case, I've changed my mind. I want to drop a hammer. I don't want to hang around an extra 24 hours lol.

I was relying on not having to contribute for the next 12 hours, so I'll probably do my best not to.

I refuse to allow it.

Why would the civilians want to give mafia 36 hours to discuss their actions going forward instead of giving us that 24 window. That's ludicrous!

#3309

ika wrote:oh and as a bonus, lets add in condescending.

like goldn tell me how this is town!mp at all?

How is tunneling and provoking another player town behavior?

#3310

ika wrote:
Golden wrote:
ika wrote:why the hell do you think i refuse to change? nobody has yet to come out with a "oh they are cleard cus role" nor has anyone ever given me anything to disprove them killing off silver n1 for her accuracy
Because you are stubborn.
hi pot im kettle, we are both black

Well this is also true.

#3311

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
ika wrote:oh and as a bonus, lets add in condescending.

like goldn tell me how this is town!mp at all?
How is tunneling and provoking another player town behavior?

tunnign is wanting to get results, nobody has once really given the efforts to go with me so i will jsut continue untill porven ohterwise.

as for provoking, thats like number 1 way i start to read people

#3312

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
ika wrote:
Golden wrote:
ika wrote:why the hell do you think i refuse to change? nobody has yet to come out with a "oh they are cleard cus role" nor has anyone ever given me anything to disprove them killing off silver n1 for her accuracy
Because you are stubborn.
hi pot im kettle, we are both black
Well this is also true.

wait golen is black? i thought he was gold....

#3313

He's a kiwi I'm pretty certain.

#3314

I'm still going to get those other two ISOs up tonight, I promise. Just got sidetracked with things.

#3315

What if I vote in the poll but don't post it in the thread? Then it's not a legal vote.

Somebody would probably try to hammer on it, but that's kind of underhanded to get them to do that I think.

#3316

Metalmarsh89 wrote:What if I vote in the poll but don't post it in the thread? Then it's not a legal vote.

Somebody would probably try to hammer on it, but that's kind of underhanded to get them to do that I think.

I wouldn't recommend it.

#3317

Drunk mafia tonight?

#3318

MovingPictures07 wrote:Drunk mafia tonight?

I don't think I'm drunk enough yet. :P

But I do think that the fact that DrWilgy wasn't hammered earlier today means there's a decent chance he is scum.

#3319

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Drunk mafia tonight?
I don't think I'm drunk enough yet. :P

But I do think that the fact that DrWilgy wasn't hammered earlier today means there's a decent chance he is scum.

Well, me neither, I just started my first drink.

#3320

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Drunk mafia tonight?
I don't think I'm drunk enough yet. :P

But I do think that the fact that DrWilgy wasn't hammered earlier today means there's a decent chance he is scum.
Well, me neither, I just started my first drink.

I hope it's an espresso stout. Then you can be drunk and awake while you're browsing doing those ISOs.

#3321

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Drunk mafia tonight?
I don't think I'm drunk enough yet. :P

But I do think that the fact that DrWilgy wasn't hammered earlier today means there's a decent chance he is scum.
Well, me neither, I just started my first drink.
I hope it's an espresso stout. Then you can be drunk and awake while you're browsing doing those ISOs.

That sounds pretty good.

#3322

If I drink tonight I'll die.

I may have an Irish coffee in the morning though.

#3323

DrWilgy wrote:If I drink tonight I'll die.

I may have an Irish coffee in the morning though.

#3324

SIG / INAWORDYES

Day 1

Spoiler: show

sig starts off by saying IAWY's entrance was town-indicative. This is notable because I'm pretty sure this is the first statement anyone made regarding IAWY.

Spoiler: show

sig's second post re: IAWY is an off-topic fluffy interaction post.

Spoiler: show

sig wrote:Page 10.
DrWilgy wrote:
sig wrote:Also

Vote Unvote

I mislike Wilgy's vote, but can't tell if this is his normal lovable town shenanigans or mafia pretending to be lovable town while avoiding any vote.
Sig this would imply that I'm only loveable based on alignment :P

Baddies are never lovable. :P

MovingPictures07 wrote:
sig wrote:There isn't much to go on yet but, inaword had a towny entrance to the thread.

He is doing some RVS, but that is common on MU. I usually dislike doing this however, it isn't an alignment indicator.
These two statements read incompatible to me. Please explain.
No they aren't. I dislike using RVS, however it doesn't indicate alignment. I still believe his entrance was towny as not using RVS is a personal preference and not an Alignment thing.

Dyslexicon wrote:I don't have an overview over who knows who, who's from here and how familiar this type of setup is to people, and I'd really like to have that.

So I'll just state that:
- I've played a couple of games with PSI.
- I'm not from here (but I really like the site *buddies everyone)
- I consider this setup pretty standard.

And if other would like to share that would be appreciated.
- I'm a regular on the Syndicate but I hail from lands far away.
-I've not played with Marco, Psittacitofrm, Dyslexicon, or Frog. I believe I've played with Zexy and inawordyes, but can't recall almost anything about their playstyle.
- I've played a few games like this, as well as many games with role claiming.

Some quick fire notes.

I see Frogs point and I've seen this strategy used before. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't.
I mislike Zebra's posts to bump herself up seeing how Frog made a specific point so while her post count went up her level of content didn't
I do agree with her opinions of not going after lurkers, however, it is day 1 and I think Frog is approaching this differently then just wall flower hunting.
MP putting in alot of effort (Told you he is a liar :P) I'm not sure if this is civ or mafia though. I'd have him as a town lean.

Dyslexicon wrote:Sig seems less town to me than before. Null read. Gives relatievly little.
How so?

Dyslexicon wrote:I'm a bit bothered that noone has had more than 3 votes at a point (iirc). I'm not used to that at all. We need more wagons. We need clear lynch candidates.
That isn't super common on the Syndicate, also could you explain why we should have more wagons? Wouldn't it make it easier for the mafia to hid among wagons.

sig addresses my point, furthering the view that IAWY's entrance was towny inspite of RVS.

Small comment about having played with IAWY before (he thinks); doesn't remember anything about his playstyle.

Spoiler: show

Not a rainbow list, but sig's first reads list has IAWY in the "town lean" section, with no nulls, but no accompanying explanation.

Spoiler: show

Soft defense of IAWY.

Spoiler: show

Calls IAWY a lurker and says he'd rather lynch MM over IAWY.

Spoiler: show

Greets IAWY and asks for reads.

Spoiler: show

This is more about Silver or Soneji, but here sig throws some suspicion back on Silver for her questioning of him wanting to start a wagon on Soneji. He argues that she's lynching IAWY for not being around.

Spoiler: show

Asserts strongly that mafia are voting for IAWY, mentions a willingness to vote for Silver or Soneji, and comments regarding MM's behavior re: IAWY.

Spoiler: show

Comments more regarding suggesting a Soneji CFD, saying he was trying to provide an alternative to IAWY (and MM).

Spoiler: show

Says he doesn't think Frog is bad, but that he'd rather lynch Frog than IAWY, so this is another defense of IAWY.

Day 2

Spoiler: show

sig wrote:
Soneji wrote:
sig wrote:Ugh that Silver vs Golden vs MP vs Frog got annoying to read after awhile. :P

I'm leaning towards a Psittacitform or Zebra lynch today. I'll go over both of them tomorrow.
Zebra is playing different? Her filler posts to prove a point seemed really unlike her.
Psitt did something that pinged me which I can't recall atm.
Do you remember what pinged you about Psi?

sig wrote:
Silverwolf wrote:Sig ISO and thoughts:

First @Sig:

-Why is my argument with Golden TvT to you, can you elaborate on this please?

-You said you don't think zexy is mafia. Elaborate please?

-Why do you not think sloonei is mafia but are null reading him after your interaction with him?

-What was townie about In a words entrance to the thread?

I notice sig makes a lot of comments like this without much explanation so I'm gonna wait for his answers to these questions before I give a read here.
Okay so I'm civ reading both you and Golden. I think your both trying to scum hunt and be genuine. However, your attempting this in different ways and butting heads. I notice this happens alot among the town "alphas" That is what is happening with you two. It looks like you've resolved your disagreement which is good since as I said I think it was TvT. I think it is more likely for scum to be laying low right now.
So you had a civ read on Silver here, yet you're willing to change up your opinion on her later based solely on one comment regarding allowing me to catch up? Your reasoning for doing so, that Silver wasn't willing to do so for IAWY, who unlike me wasn't around is weak. She had actually been pinged by IAWY's posts as she had explained earlier, if she hadn't been pinged by my two posts then she has every reason to give me time to catch up over IAWY. Part of your reasoning for trying to create a CFD on me is that I hadn't posted again after my first two posts, as if I was avoiding posting rather than continuing my read through.

Were you that confident that I am scum, IAWY is town?

sig wrote:Golden
MM
Psittacitform
Soneji
Sloonie

I'm not voting for Golden or Soneji today. If someone gives me a case on Sloonie and it is good I'd consider it, but won't build it myself. I could swing for MM, but again haven't seen a case on him. Psittacitform is the one I'd be most willing to vote for out of this group atm. However, I'm hesitant since he only has two posts. Though we've had 60 hours to make posts and him only making two is a little odd.

The other angle is Frog, could he be mafia trying to push us onto lurkers? Maybe, but I'm not confident in that.

I do really dislike Silver's read on Zebra/MP. I doubt MP is mafia and at the moment I'm thinking Zebra isn't either. However, if I have to pick between Zebra and MP I'd go for Zebra.

@Zebra who would you like to lynch?

linki: Zebra so your saying I should lynhc you since you're mafia attempting a gambit.
:P
I'm somewhat confused as to how that group of 5 was made as seemingly your main lynch choices. Why put Golden in there at all if you're not voting him, why would you claim you would not vote me without seeing what I might post(when I did, you immediately jumped on it for vague reasons)?
I was more confident that IAWY was town, plus I dislike all CFDs, though if we were to CFD I'd have wanted to be in control of it since then I'd have known it wasn't scum lead.

I listed every player who had 1 or 2 votes, notice I also said who among them I wouldn't vote for.
After rereading some stuff and hearing what marco thinks of you, I'd rather not lynch you. MM is still my top mafia read, however I'm going to reread the Frog lynch and see. In theory the CFD could've been done to save a teammate or teammates, espacilly if my MM/IAWY theory is right. I highly doubt it is, but if it was then I'd say we have a Golden/MM/IAWY/Ika team.

Although sig admits he was confident that IAWY was town, he considers a MM/IAWY team, even though he considers it doubtful.

Spoiler: show

Says he agrees with a list that IAWY is possible scum.

Spoiler: show

Says the IAWY case is weak, would rather lynch MM and ika.

Spoiler: show

Votes IAWY once a wagon has formed, says the vig should shoot MM.

Spoiler: show

Various mafia team combinations. He says "maybe" IAWY. He also says he didn't like IAWY's vote for Wilgy.

Summary

- sig is the first player to issue any opinion regarding IAWY by saying he had a towny entrance. He continues to defend IAWY to at least a soft degree throughout d1, noting that the suspicion against him is weak.

- sig changes his tune a bit on d2, and although his train of thought is difficult to follow, he doesn't defend IAWY quite as much, and ends up voting on his established wagon close to EoD. Nonetheless, he does still show a willingness to lynch a couple of players more than IAWY.

Conclusion

I actually don't think sig's behavior is teammate compatible or teammate indicative, although I'm sure someone could argue the former. I just don't think it's true. His defense of IAWY on d1, combined with his flip floppy thoughts on d2 seem like unlikely soft defense then sloppy bus material. He genuinely seems to not know IAWY's alignment and is consistently trying to figure him out.

What do you think?

#3325

Hmm...

Sig, was your suspicion of Marmot in correlation with IAWY? Do you still still suspect Marmot? How did IAWY's flip affect your views on him?

#3326

I'm getting tired. Thankfully, it's the final one. I can do this.

#3327

DrWilgy wrote:Hmm...

Sig, was your suspicion of Marmot in correlation with IAWY? Do you still still suspect Marmot? How did IAWY's flip affect your views on him?

I'd like more elaboration here as well.

In addition, if there's any way you can provide elaboration to your d2 posts regarding IAWY, sig, that'd be great.

#3328

SONEJI / INAWORDYES

Day 1

Spoiler: show

Soneji wrote:Through page 15:

Psittaciform wrote:Hello~

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Psittacitform caught my eye. VOTE PSITTACITFORM. I see you there with your hand in the cookie jar. What have you to say for yourself!
Thanks for the welcome! Cookie jar? What cookies, vanilla? Because I have a vanilla here, not a cookie, however. :P

Zexy wrote:
Sloonei wrote:What I didn't like about your posts is that they seemed like an easy opportunistic set of early observations when there wasn't a whole lot of content to analyze. It's a good and easy way to establish yourself early on as a town leader.
I don't think you are the kind of person who would base a read only on that anyway when so much more is going to happen.
I'd like to believe same goes for sig.
I'll just note on this that Zexy is also prone to analyze anything he can and try to set himself up as a town leader, which can (at least partly) explain why he's going to Sig's defense here over that.
For what reason are you saying this? I didn't see anything that would prompt it. It reads as a preemptive defense to another players actions/playstyle.

On that note, I'm not, you won't hear from me unless I feel I have something worth saying.
I hope that you aren't limited in which fields you consider yourself knowledgeable enough on to have something worth saying.

Frog wrote:
Marco wrote:
sig wrote:
Dyslexicon wrote:Hi!
Hello.

Sloonei wrote:Sig came in and tried to drag as much content out of things as he could. I'd like that if it didn't feel like such an effort to distance oneself from the label of low participation or scumminess.
Let's VOTE SIG
You'd usually like it but, don't this time? That doesn't make much sense.Also it is weird seeing how this is the beginning of day 1 so how would I be labeled as low participation if I hadn't had made any posts after my first one?

So why is it scummy that I'm posting and trying to get some content, since from where I sit it looks like your trying to stifle discussion.
He wasn't calling you out for low participation.
For reference, this is Marco randomly defending Sloonei from Sig.

Why would any player have incentive to defend another player, especially in the early stages where players are seeking reactions? Marco essentially forced Sig to not get the reactions from Marco, and shielded Marco from having to react.

From a Town perspective - It's possible Marco was shielding his town read, Sloonei, from abuse. Judging how Marco proceeded to vote me after I voted Sloonei, I would say assuming Marco!Town, Marco clearly has discovered a way to hard Town read Sloonei from a few troll RVS posts, a miracle to say the least.

From a Not Town Perspective - Marco!Town was acting not town by disallowing everyone in the game from seeing actual content argument between sig and marco, whereby we would be able to actively gauge v/w, v/v type of interactions. Instead Marco!Town was not town and cut these interactions shorts, and denied Marco's reaction

From a Scum Perspective - Marco!Scum comes from an informed perspective. Either he knows Sloonei is town and is trying to pocket him, or Marco is defending a wolf bro.

Of these scenarios, and because of Marco's previous TMI (Too Much Information) posts that suggest he's coming from an informed perspective, I'm much more inclined to deduce and FOS (Finger of Suspicion) Marco at this point OVER Sloonei.

There is a variation in which Sloonei is in fact Town - judging by Sloonei's aggressive behavior and general interactivity across the board, I'd like to bump Sloonei up from lean scum to cautious null.

I will also bump down Marco into a hard wolf read.

[flash=3]Vote: Marco[/flash]
I would say to this that Marco is the type of town player that actively tries to prevent "towning". He will point out the flaws in reasoning he disagrees with to prevent mislynches. In his response to sig there though, he doesn't point out what Sloonei was actually calling sig out for, which is generally what I'd think he'd do as town. He may have just thought it obvious but it gives me a slight mafia lean. Up to this point hes been too focused on talking mechanics. Not sure if he actually knowledge slipped though. The presumption of innocence on your part is necessary for him to even consider trying your strategy, as if you're mafia and do know the exact set-up then it wasn't beneficial in his view to spend time playing the role claim game. He misunderstood your actual strategy, which is easy for someone who comes from a site that doesn't have that type of metagame at all. Its also possible for it to have just been bait.

Sloonei wrote:A town player can defend another player for what they perceive as incorrect or invalid lines of suspicion. I do not agree with your analysis, but I've not looked closely at Marco.

Also what do you mean when you call my posts "troll" posts? I made a confused face when I read that.
Its not as if there had been that many posters besides Marco up to this point that had been active. That you can't offer a more definitive opinion of him at this point is rather iffy. Whats the benefit of saying you disagree with his analysis if having paid closer attention to Marco would potentially change your view of its worth?

From a post a bit after this, its kind of dramatic to take one early joke post about being mafia as self-lynch baiting. Being hyper-aggressive constantly is also generally not good for town, its something the user AJ on my home site learned the hard way.

Sloonei wrote:So far it seems all of us who are mixed in with this current grouping are unfamiliar with each other's playstyles and communities. I've never played with either Frog or Marco before, and I don't know whether or not they've played together but I think the answer is no. Either one of them can correct me if I'm wrong. But I think we should all be cautious before reading each other too strongly. Sometimes unfamiliarity can give the illusion of scumminess. I'll need to take a step back from all this to think more clearly. I am also slightly distracted at the moment.
I would say its best to just go with what we have to work with and not doubt our instincts.

Long Con wrote:So that's what it takes to get you guys to shut up for an hour and a half. I'm going to work now, be back in a while.

Frog, loving the point of view, maybe I'll try some of your logic out, if I'm not too lazy.
I would figure that that would have been a good opportunity for you to catch up on the thread.

Inawordyes wrote:
Frog wrote:
Inawordyes wrote:
Marco wrote:Thanks. That's perfect.

Unvote
Ooh, okay. So I'm gonna go ahead and poke Frog since I know him from MU games. Heyo! How are you? WHY ARE YOU MAFIA?!?!? *cough* Ahem,I mean, "would it possible in any sort of context unique to both this world and any potential alternate realities that you could inform our inquiring minds just as to the current state of this fine game as perceived from your self and, potentially, a hint as to the true nature of where your alignments lie, to which you could also potentially be lying to us with a bold face and would need to understandably be punished?

VOTE FROG
1 - lmao, you verbose SOAB. Keep content short and sweet plox
2 - You never claimed to rand town (suspicious as fish)
3 - I don't usually like engaging in RVS silliness, but I'm doing pretty decent thanks for asking :-D About to head out to the bar next door. Congrats on F3 in the princess game btw, I'll give you a hint with respect to one of my secret identities:

Our hero, the intrepid Spaceman Spiff, struggles with the controls of his damaged spacecraft!
Haha, I'm free of the shackles MU has placed upon me, here I can be my unconstrained, usual self. I don't usually claim town, it's not how I play (MU is a different beast altogether, I'm not me when I'm there, so The Syndicate is like a proverbial kit-kat bar haha.

Well ain't that spiffy.
Spaceman Spiffy! Sorry for being instrumental in your mislynch D1!

I'm really burnt out by it though, and I wished MU had Mods on Duty because one was desperately needed. I'm also gonna be busy all day tomorrow, so I'm just gonna take this game to relax and unwind and be my fun and crazy self haha. Not to say I'll be inactive! But I'm sure I won't post 100+ times in a day haha, nor will I need to be right on the pulse with the game as everything's happening. If anyone objects to that type of attitude btw, it's completely fine, I probably worded it wrong.

Now, to catch up with the rest of the game...
One of the weirdest preemptive defenses I've ever read. Its "fine if we object to the attitude you are proclaiming to have because we're probably misunderstanding you"?

ika wrote:
Golden wrote: I don't like this vote at all.

MP has been up front about his schedule and exactly when he will be trying to post. There are people who haven't posted at all. Feels like you are picking on the person who has self-admitted they will be quiet. And anyway, why exactly does he, specifically, need to post more?

As far as the detail of Zexy as scum - I don't know what you're missing? I've posted the reason I am pinged by him. There isn't anything more to it because it's a relatively small ping, what would you like me to explain more? What was the 'some content' that you liked? Was there part of it you didn't like?

Hey golden, remember heist and turf? Silver was spot on. Not only that but the people were lurkers.

Knowing someon Scedule does not excuse them from not posting. For me existing everything is scum tell 101.

Perot: and silver ninjas me
I know that you're super defensive of SW but its a bit hypocritical in that you would defend SW for not posting at particular times knowing her schedule, like how she earlier remarked on you being out of town so you might not be able to post.

Despite an absence for most of d1, Soneji has relevant IAWY content during d1.

Long post is long. But I highlighted the relevant portion, a response to IAWY noting his post as a preemptive defense.

Spoiler: show

Soneji would vote IAWY over MM. However, his vote remains on Frog to end the day.

Day 2

Spoiler: show

Soneji wrote:
sig wrote:Ugh that Silver vs Golden vs MP vs Frog got annoying to read after awhile. :P

I'm leaning towards a Psittacitform or Zebra lynch today. I'll go over both of them tomorrow.
Zebra is playing different? Her filler posts to prove a point seemed really unlike her.
Psitt did something that pinged me which I can't recall atm.
Do you remember what pinged you about Psi?

sig wrote:
Silverwolf wrote:Sig ISO and thoughts:

First @Sig:

-Why is my argument with Golden TvT to you, can you elaborate on this please?

-You said you don't think zexy is mafia. Elaborate please?

-Why do you not think sloonei is mafia but are null reading him after your interaction with him?

-What was townie about In a words entrance to the thread?

I notice sig makes a lot of comments like this without much explanation so I'm gonna wait for his answers to these questions before I give a read here.
Okay so I'm civ reading both you and Golden. I think your both trying to scum hunt and be genuine. However, your attempting this in different ways and butting heads. I notice this happens alot among the town "alphas" That is what is happening with you two. It looks like you've resolved your disagreement which is good since as I said I think it was TvT. I think it is more likely for scum to be laying low right now.
So you had a civ read on Silver here, yet you're willing to change up your opinion on her later based solely on one comment regarding allowing me to catch up? Your reasoning for doing so, that Silver wasn't willing to do so for IAWY, who unlike me wasn't around is weak. She had actually been pinged by IAWY's posts as she had explained earlier, if she hadn't been pinged by my two posts then she has every reason to give me time to catch up over IAWY. Part of your reasoning for trying to create a CFD on me is that I hadn't posted again after my first two posts, as if I was avoiding posting rather than continuing my read through.

Were you that confident that I am scum, IAWY is town?

sig wrote:Golden
MM
Psittacitform
Soneji
Sloonie

I'm not voting for Golden or Soneji today. If someone gives me a case on Sloonie and it is good I'd consider it, but won't build it myself. I could swing for MM, but again haven't seen a case on him. Psittacitform is the one I'd be most willing to vote for out of this group atm. However, I'm hesitant since he only has two posts. Though we've had 60 hours to make posts and him only making two is a little odd.

The other angle is Frog, could he be mafia trying to push us onto lurkers? Maybe, but I'm not confident in that.

I do really dislike Silver's read on Zebra/MP. I doubt MP is mafia and at the moment I'm thinking Zebra isn't either. However, if I have to pick between Zebra and MP I'd go for Zebra.

@Zebra who would you like to lynch?

linki: Zebra so your saying I should lynhc you since you're mafia attempting a gambit.
:P
I'm somewhat confused as to how that group of 5 was made as seemingly your main lynch choices. Why put Golden in there at all if you're not voting him, why would you claim you would not vote me without seeing what I might post(when I did, you immediately jumped on it for vague reasons)?

Sloonei wrote:Somebody tell me who I should vote for. I am not going to be able to read this thread tonight. Or tomorrow. Or the next day. I probably should have stayed on the sidelines.
This post was just bait going by how he responded to Ika's reply to it. What I find to be a bit scummy is that if this was truly bait, why reel in such low hanging fruit as Ika, whose adamant about not having actual reasons for his suspicions, just gut? You're not going to get good results from going for him.

ika wrote:ok so i jsut read up and i want to say one thing:

in boht turf and hest i was ina constant stuggle on being lynch vs not being lycnhed.

turf i barly got by the first 3 days, on day 3 i only got away due to vote loans. 4-5 i got away due to me bussing fuzzy in CFD

hesit i was the competing wagon on all of day 2 and most of 3.

i am very much an easy myslycnh based on my own playstyle
Such raw honesty Ika. I was a bit iffy about that post by MP as I did remember you almost got lynched day 2 in Turf Wars and mainly sailed by the next few days based on people thinking it unlikely that you'd use the loan votes on your own scummate. You were actually mafia though, so I couldn't exactly categorize it as a mislynch. Wasn't in Heist so couldn't judge that in the moment but if what you say is true, then MP appears to have tried to spin the narrative a bit.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Frog wrote:I'll post my scum games:
http://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/thr ... Mafia-15er

... my home site's admins have literally been either permabanned and/or deleted my scum games as troll. Gae as fuck. I quit the site (requested ban) as soon as I was recognized the MVP of the site 3 years running for 20+ games.

I've never been scum.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Sloonei wrote:I don't think I've ever seen a scummy marmot. Maybe once, on RYM a while ago.
I was mafia once on RYM.

But in that game (hosted by zebra), everyone was mafia, so that one doesn't count. :P

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Marco wrote:@MetalMarsh89, you may have missed this.

Marco wrote:@MetalMarsh, how highly would you rate your own scum-game? And can you describe one or two of your best scum performances, preferably with links to them?
My scum game is decent I think, or at least was because I've been drawing a lot of civilian/Indy roles lately. I went through a stretch here where I won several games as scum though, and I'll link you a few.

Death Note - We mafia tore the civilians apart in this game, for the most part. But there was a caveat: I was an unlynchable and unnightkillable scum who did not need to be dead for the civilians to win.

Pikmin - This would be my most recent game as scum. I had a strong start to the game, but due to the game falling around Christmas time, my participation dropped, and I was eventually lynched. Overall, I played a relatively good game, and my lynch was not detrimental to our cause, and we won anyway.

Recruitment IV - This was a recruitment game, so it had its own special style to make if different than a normal mafia game. But similar to Death Note, I had an unkillable, unlynchable role again. :P I have a tendency to draw those.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Well by golly, you all better at least lynch Sloonei before you lynch me.
Any particular reason the order matters to you, since you appear to not care that your lynch will follow in this scenario? Considering you think him mafia, would you not say your push on him would then warrant some towncred if he flips the way you think he will?

a2thezebra wrote:I'm town and I'd like to keep playing, but keeping MP alive takes the top priority right now.

VOTE A2THEZEBRA
This seems overly dramatic, as I'm rather sure there wasn't all that many votes on MP and quite awhile left in the phase.

a2thezebra wrote:I get some of the new people being suspicious of me, but sig and Golden? You two should know better.
Never been one to have this type of reasoning sit well with me.

Questioning of sig over IAWY.

Spoiler: show

Responds to IAWY. If this is distancing, it's brilliant.

Spoiler: show

Another response to IAWY. The general tone is accusatory, which is consistent with Soneji's previous responses to IAWY.

Spoiler: show

Soneji wrote:
Dyslexicon wrote:Soneji, I'm totally not feeling your sig vote. What is your read on IAWY and MM? Which one of them if any do you think Sig could be teamed with?
I've been reading IAWY as scum and sig as his potential teammate for his defense of him. MM I felt fine with at first when doing a quick ISO before the lynch last phase but hes said a few things that have pinged me, which I pointed out earlier:

Soneji wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Frog wrote:I'll post my scum games:
http://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/thr ... Mafia-15er

... my home site's admins have literally been either permabanned and/or deleted my scum games as troll. Gae as fuck. I quit the site (requested ban) as soon as I was recognized the MVP of the site 3 years running for 20+ games.

I've never been scum.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Sloonei wrote:I don't think I've ever seen a scummy marmot. Maybe once, on RYM a while ago.
I was mafia once on RYM.

But in that game (hosted by zebra), everyone was mafia, so that one doesn't count. :P

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Marco wrote:@MetalMarsh89, you may have missed this.

Marco wrote:@MetalMarsh, how highly would you rate your own scum-game? And can you describe one or two of your best scum performances, preferably with links to them?
My scum game is decent I think, or at least was because I've been drawing a lot of civilian/Indy roles lately. I went through a stretch here where I won several games as scum though, and I'll link you a few.

Death Note - We mafia tore the civilians apart in this game, for the most part. But there was a caveat: I was an unlynchable and unnightkillable scum who did not need to be dead for the civilians to win.

Pikmin - This would be my most recent game as scum. I had a strong start to the game, but due to the game falling around Christmas time, my participation dropped, and I was eventually lynched. Overall, I played a relatively good game, and my lynch was not detrimental to our cause, and we won anyway.

Recruitment IV - This was a recruitment game, so it had its own special style to make if different than a normal mafia game. But similar to Death Note, I had an unkillable, unlynchable role again. :P I have a tendency to draw those.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Well by golly, you all better at least lynch Sloonei before you lynch me.
Any particular reason the order matters to you, since you appear to not care that your lynch will follow in this scenario? Considering you think him mafia, would you not say your push on him would then warrant some towncred if he flips the way you think he will?

Clarifies that he has been reading IAWY as mafia and sig as a potential teammate.

Spoiler: show

Soneji wrote:
Dyslexicon wrote:
Soneji wrote:I've been reading IAWY as scum and sig as his potential teammate for his defense of him. MM I felt fine with at first when doing a quick ISO before the lynch last phase but hes said a few things that have pinged me, which I pointed out earlier:
Do you feel it makes sense for sig to try and get a EOD wagon on you as scum? It may makes sense if it was to save someone like IAWY, I agree, but still seems like a stretch to me. What is the reason you are voting sig over IAWY right now?

It's also not clear to me why you were voting Frog as the first person last day when you say IAWY had already pingen you? Can you elaborate what your thought process was? (I realize there will be hindsight to this, since Frog has already flipped).
If he thought I wouldn't be back around or notice his push because I was catching up, then I don't doubt he would. It makes sense enough either way though, considering I hadn't been around prior he may have thought it easy to spin me as scum. I am voting sig to pressure him and see how things go with that. If people aren't willing to go there by near EoD tomorrow, I plan to change my vote to IAWY unless a really strong case comes up elsewhere.

IAWY had pinged me, along with some others. Frog's sudden shift from actually hunting people for what they had posted(Marco and Sloonei mainly) to pushing us to lynch inactives was really jarring, as was his insistence on his mindset being the only correct mindset. The whole self-lynch bait thing he was pushing in regards to Sloonei also seemed to be really stretching things in the most ludicrous way. While things on The Syndicate are rather different, I can't say until the results of yesterdays lynch that I truly knew what culture shock was.

I would say that in the end once the Frog lynch picked up steam I was tempted to switch IAWY, for Frog had actually shown at least that he would be active. That Epi and Golden had jumped onto it and Sloonei off of it though made me really intrigued as towards Frog's flip, as it would give the most info. Its part of why I lean towards town vig killing Epi over mafia 1-shot vig, its reducing the number of players to be implicated by the flip.

Explains his vote for sig, but says he will switch to IAWY unless a really strong case comes up in the meantime. Explains his thought process regarding EoD with respect to leaving his vote on Frog versus moving it to IAWY.

Spoiler: show

Soneji wrote:
Dyslexicon wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Would you be able to rank your scum reads somehow?

What did you think of my Soneji ISO earlier?
I could, eventually. But I still feel I want to hear more from most of them (since they are all/most pretty quiet). It still feels unsolved to me in a way, if that makes sense. But IAWY is my prefered lynch, and my strongest suspicion.

I was so tired when I read the Soneji-ISO I don't really remember. Sorry. I do appreciate you putting in the work, and I will surely get back to it. Apart from that I've looked into his ISO on my own today to check up on things. I'm not convinced by him, he's a null I'm suspicious of. He could very well be teamed with IAWY if he is indeed scum. I don't feel his push on Sig is very good. Firstly because I feel Sig is a player that would be easy to push on (easy target, for various reasons), and two because the argument doesn't seem all that strong to me and gets a bit repetative. I don't think it makes that much sense for scum!Sig to push on Soneji of all people if Sig is scum. That being said, I don't think it's impossible for Soneji to be town doing all this either. So it's inconclusive atm.
The thing with this is that I'm having trouble seeing a reason why sig would be so eager to have a counterwagon form on me and be defensive of IAWY, seemingly only because he read his opening post as townish. I could understand it if it was a TS regular hes familiar with that he doesn't want to see gone so early but someone hes unfamiliar with that isn't really contributing? From my perspective, he saw someone who people were discussing getting replaced come in late with a long post he probably doesn't think people will read too closely or have time to analyze properly, with a vote contrary to the only two wagons at the time that he could spin as "avoiding the major wagons".

I do think IAWY's flip will be the most telling and I support it as the finalized lynch. Getting more out of sig beforehand can't hurt though.

Soneji wants IAWY to die.

Spoiler: show

This post contains another response to IAWY, but it's just a sentiment that IAWY please not go "full ika" on him.

Spoiler: show

Once again Soneji addresses his d1 EoD voting behavior.

Spoiler: show

And here's Soneji's vote post.

Summary

- Although Soneji was late to the party d1, his first catch up post included an apt criticism of one of IAWY's posts, and over the course of d1 and d2, Soneji makes several other posts that are suspicious of IAWY over specific details.

- He voted for Frog d1 instead of IAWY. Despite suspecting sig throughout d2, he votes for IAWY.

Conclusion

Soneji wins the award for best interaction. I don't think this man is a teammate of IAWY.

But what do you think?

#3329

Well, that's it! Now a few more key posts, then I'm out for the night, and my activity for the rest of d4 will be very spotty, near nonexistent.

#3330

All you isos and conclusions basically go exactly where my gut is.

Your confidence in sig was interesting, though. I'm going to take a second look at that. If I feel really good about him, I could vote zebra ahead of wilgy.

I do think there is really something to be said for Wilgy not being hammered, though. There were chances for the baddies to hammer him (I really believe that, because I really believe in at least two civvies being on board), yet it didn't happen.

#3331

IAWY Teammate Interactions

a2thezebra
DrWilgy
Golden
ika
Metalmarsh89
Psittaciform
sig
Soneji

#3332

IAWY Interaction Analysis Rainbow

Very Unlikely:
Soneji

Unlikely:
sig

Null:
Scotty (Psittacitform)

Compatible:
Golden
ika
DrWilgy

Compatible and Indicative:
Metalmarsh89
a2thezebra

#3333

Golden wrote:All you isos and conclusions basically go exactly where my gut is.

Your confidence in sig was interesting, though. I'm going to take a second look at that. If I feel really good about him, I could vote zebra ahead of wilgy.

I do think there is really something to be said for Wilgy not being hammered, though. There were chances for the baddies to hammer him (I really believe that, because I really believe in at least two civvies being on board), yet it didn't happen.

In the end, it takes an assessment based on the material I've uncovered, so you could say the final conclusions are a matter of fact interpretation to a degree as much as possible, but gut plays the remaining role for sure.

Looking at sig's IAWY-relevant stuff, I was actually surprised how organic it all read to me. I didn't think what Scotty dug up was particularly strong, but I feel even better about him now. I'm not writing him off, or even Soneji for that matter, but if sig is IAWY's teammate then his progression is very believable and consistent with his town meta, at least from my view.

Of course, everyone comes to different conclusions, so I'd love to hear if anyone disagrees with any of my post or overall interpretations and why. I could be wrong.

What do you think regarding Wilgy not being hammered, that it means he's more likely mafia because of that fact? You'll have to excuse me, I'm tired and have been drinking.

#3334

Yeah, just that mafia right now might not have a problem putting the hammer down on a civilian.

Mind you, on the other hand, you might say they might not have a problem putting the hammer down to bus, either, so maybe I'm reading too much into it.

#3335

Golden wrote:Yeah, just that mafia right now might not have a problem putting the hammer down on a civilian.

Mind you, on the other hand, you might say they might not have a problem putting the hammer down to bus, either, so maybe I'm reading too much into it.

Makes sense. It's difficult to say.

#3336

Day 4: Rainbow List
(#2 d4, #7 overall)

Strong Town:
Soneji

Moderate Town:
sig

Slight Town:
Golden

Slight Mafia:
Scotty (Psittacitform)
ika
Metalmarsh89

Moderate Mafia:
a2thezebra
DrWilgy

Strong Mafia:
N/A

These are updated to reflect my findings in the IAWY interaction analyses. If you have comments on those, please voice them. Same goes with any of these reads.

I have given the IAWY interaction results a relatively strong weight, in combination with my previous d4 rainbow list and how players have been acting since then. It's getting to the point in the game where I need to be willing to reevaluate more than ever, so these are an accurate snapshot of how I currently feel about everyone, but they're subject to change, particularly dependent on the content of players themselves. If you're in my mafia sections, please try to alleviate concerns in any way you can. We cannot afford mislynches.

Now I'm out of here. As I mentioned before, my activity from now until EoD d4 will be spotty. Unfortunately, with these term papers and other PhD-related things I have over the coming two weeks, my activity will very likely permanently dip, but I'll still contribute to the best of my ability. This is just a warning. It's also why I wanted to get these damn analyses in by tonight, because I'm uncertain what the next few days will look like.

Good night, folks.

#3337

I really wanted to read all your isos in depth tonight but just couldn't do it. Picking it up from the MM one tomorrow.

#3338

Got lots of school to do today, so I won't be as active.

I'd still rather lynch Zebra then Wilgy and Wilgy then Scotty. If needed I'll switch to Wilgy around EOD.

#3339

MovingPictures07 wrote:Summary

- MM failed to take a hard stance on IAWY throughout all of d1 and d2. MM places IAWY in the null placement of both of his rainbow lists.

- For d1, MM stayed mostly silent about IAWY, but he did at least commit a soft defense in systematically dismissing the d1 IAWY wagon formation on a couple of occasions.

- MM interacts a fair amount with IAWY on d2, but doesn't seem to use any of it to form any read of him, which is the strongest point against him. I think this is relatively indicative of a teammate relationship; if it were true, it means that a teammate MM avoided taking any stance on bussing or hard defending IAWY, which is perhaps the most common teammate treatment in early game stages from my experience.

Conclusion

I would call MM's interactions with IAWY teammate compatible, and further, I'm willing to call them potentially teammate indicative.

What do you think?

I do have a couple comments about my Day 1 behavior.

I've explained it to a couple of people already. Since I was also a leading lynch candidate on Day 1, I was using my vote to keep myself out of the lead, and encouraging others to do the same. The less votes being moved around at EoD, the less risky it would be for me.

#3340

Oh wait, that's only one comment.

#3341

VOTE SIG

bae plz answer questions.

Regarding the hammer not dropping, perhaps it's too early for scum to all in, or there's a possibility that they are too deep in suspicion of someone. I.e. Golden on me or Ika on Sig? If they are scum they will need to provide reasons for swaps and then hammer. Maybe thy don't want to go that deep.

#3342

Waiiiit!! Ika is reminding me of Matt in the GoC!

VOTE IKA!

Sig don't think you can dodge me since I'm not voting you currently!

#3343

DrWilgy wrote:Waiiiit!! Ika is reminding me of Matt in the GoC!

VOTE IKA!

Sig don't think you can dodge me since I'm not voting you currently!

im not matt....

#3344

The deadline for Day 4 is in 8 hours and 41 minutes at precisely 10:00 PM eastern US/Canada time.

The hammer vote is the 5th.

#3345

DrWilgy wrote:Hmm...

Sig, was your suspicion of Marmot in correlation with IAWY? Do you still still suspect Marmot? How did IAWY's flip affect your views on him?

This question?

No my suspicion of MM had nothing to do with IWAY. I'd have to put MM as a scum lean however, I feel like I was being a bit to tunnely and that I might be wrong about him. IWAY's flip makes him look slightly worse imo.

#3346

ika wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:Waiiiit!! Ika is reminding me of Matt in the GoC!

VOTE IKA!

Sig don't think you can dodge me since I'm not voting you currently!
im not matt....

Yeah, but mafia Matt held a single suspicion on someone all game and skated by to win on it.

Hmm... Mafia Zebra did something similar in Rocky and Bullwinkle.

Starting to seem like a scum trait.

@Sig, do you wanna cfd onto Marmot?

#3347

DrWilgy wrote:
ika wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:Waiiiit!! Ika is reminding me of Matt in the GoC!

VOTE IKA!

Sig don't think you can dodge me since I'm not voting you currently!
im not matt....
Yeah, but mafia Matt held a single suspicion on someone all game and skated by to win on it.

Hmm... Mafia Zebra did something similar in Rocky and Bullwinkle.

Starting to seem like a scum trait.

@Sig, do you wanna cfd onto Marmot?

my tunnling is very much a null tell in itself, ive done it town and scum

#3348

Grr I've been away too long. Had one of the longest and most grueling days of this tour so far, so I apologize for my absence.

I will only be spotty as well today, since it's another 2 shows I'm working with. But I know the deadline is coming up.

Wilgy, I still don't know how to respond to you (from like 8 pages ago). I'm also eyeing your suspicions like a hawk.

I glanced through MP's exhaustive (whew you outdo yourself sometimes, sock) and I found myself agreeing with most everything said.
In regards to MM, I do feel like he has flown under the radar.
I think Soneji isn't cleared, and could still very well be baddie. But. Here's the big but(t). I think both of you are on similar wavelengths this game. I also think Golden is lumped in that wavelength as well. So unless both you and Golden are secret Nazis, I'm feeling very good about you guys and, in tandem, Soneji right now.

sig I could see going either way, but I view him as a null-civ lean right now.

Zebra, who I haven't even talked about- I mean, this day phase she has been all over the place, and not offering any concrete rhyme or reason. How in the heck can that be considered civie behavior? I don't get it. I honestly believe that one of them should be lynched today, and the other shot tonight. I would do it, but I'm not a vigi. I'm a plain jane.

#3349

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Summary

- MM failed to take a hard stance on IAWY throughout all of d1 and d2. MM places IAWY in the null placement of both of his rainbow lists.

- For d1, MM stayed mostly silent about IAWY, but he did at least commit a soft defense in systematically dismissing the d1 IAWY wagon formation on a couple of occasions.

- MM interacts a fair amount with IAWY on d2, but doesn't seem to use any of it to form any read of him, which is the strongest point against him. I think this is relatively indicative of a teammate relationship; if it were true, it means that a teammate MM avoided taking any stance on bussing or hard defending IAWY, which is perhaps the most common teammate treatment in early game stages from my experience.

Conclusion

I would call MM's interactions with IAWY teammate compatible, and further, I'm willing to call them potentially teammate indicative.

What do you think?
I do have a couple comments about my Day 1 behavior.

I've explained it to a couple of people already. Since I was also a leading lynch candidate on Day 1, I was using my vote to keep myself out of the lead, and encouraging others to do the same. The less votes being moved around at EoD, the less risky it would be for me.

So now that you don't have votes on you to stress you out, where are you leaning to vote?

#3350

DrWilgy wrote:
ika wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:Waiiiit!! Ika is reminding me of Matt in the GoC!

VOTE IKA!

Sig don't think you can dodge me since I'm not voting you currently!
im not matt....
Yeah, but mafia Matt held a single suspicion on someone all game and skated by to win on it.

Hmm... Mafia Zebra did something similar in Rocky and Bullwinkle.

Starting to seem like a scum trait.

@Sig, do you wanna cfd onto Marmot?

You content with me? I mean I don't feel like cfd'ing at all, but I find it curious that you're willing to jump on Marmot so effortlessly.

Full Games	Civilian: Mafia: Independent:
Speed Games	Civilian: Fiddler on the Roof Mafia:
Heists	Civilian: MVP: RED vs BLUE
Burglaries	Independent: The Theme Is Literally a Burglary
Special Games	Civilian: Independent:

Full Games	Civilian: Mafia: Independent:
Speed Games	Civilian: Fiddler on the Roof Mafia:
Heists	Civilian: MVP: RED vs BLUE
Burglaries	Independent: The Theme Is Literally a Burglary
Special Games	Civilian: Independent:

Full Games	Civilian: Mafia: Independent:
Speed Games	Civilian: Fiddler on the Roof Mafia:
Heists	Civilian: MVP: RED vs BLUE
Burglaries	Independent: The Theme Is Literally a Burglary
Special Games	Civilian: Independent:

Full Games	Civilian: Mafia: Independent:
Speed Games	Civilian: Fiddler on the Roof Mafia:
Heists	Civilian: MVP: RED vs BLUE
Burglaries	Independent: The Theme Is Literally a Burglary
Special Games	Civilian: Independent:

Full Games	Civilian: Mafia: Independent:
Speed Games	Civilian: Fiddler on the Roof Mafia:
Heists	Civilian: MVP: RED vs BLUE
Burglaries	Independent: The Theme Is Literally a Burglary
Special Games	Civilian: Independent:

2014 Sockys
2015 Sockys
Miscellaneous

2014 Sockys
2015 Sockys
Miscellaneous

2014 Sockys
2015 Sockys
Miscellaneous

2014 Sockys
2015 Sockys
Miscellaneous