Transistor [ENDGAME]

[AllAlongTheBoardwalk]

And no, I don't think Wilgy is being very helpful either, but he does this regardless of alignment. I don't recall Zebra ever behaving this way.

So because you interpret this behavior to be within zebra's meta, but Wilgy's is in within meta, then zebra's behavior being "weird" makes her worthy of your vote? How is that logical at all?

Weird DOES NOT EQUAL suspicious. Can anyone actually explain to me the mafia motivation behind zebra's actions?

Just saw this.
I agree that weird doesn't mean someone is bad. But is also easily used as an excuse. If someone says they're mafia, I need more reason than he's being silly to not vote for them.

[Tangrowth]

Well, that was a lot to read...skimmed some of it there, but I'm mostly caught up now.

I think JaggedJimmyJay and MovingPictures07 are good. I like the back and forth discussion, even if it ends up creating way more content than I want to read, and I'm taking DB's word that he was being sarcastic and tabling that discussion.

As for my vote, I'm leaning Wigly just because of his (or her?) weird behavior. And I'm not super experienced by any means, but I see no good reasoning for calling yourself mafia. Playing weird or 'fake' outing yourself because its funny isn't an adequate defense of this to me.

Thoughts on this? As of now that's where my vote is, but I will consider alternatives.

I understand Wilgy's behavior is outwardly dancing with WIFOM, but I've seen this guy (and others) behave this way and flip town before, so it's not as if calling yourself mafia is a sure tell for it. I'm with you though; Wilgy hasn't adequately defended his "contributions" thus far.

I personally think a vote for zebra equals a vote for Wilgy which equals a vote for reywaS at this point. They're all policy lynches for "unhelpful" behavior and lack of contributions, each a different flavor if you will. I'd like to think I had something more solid with my nutella thoughts, but hey, that's just me.

[Tangrowth]

And no, I don't think Wilgy is being very helpful either, but he does this regardless of alignment. I don't recall Zebra ever behaving this way.

So because you interpret this behavior to be within zebra's meta, but Wilgy's is in within meta, then zebra's behavior being "weird" makes her worthy of your vote? How is that logical at all?

Weird DOES NOT EQUAL suspicious. Can anyone actually explain to me the mafia motivation behind zebra's actions?

Just saw this.
I agree that weird doesn't mean someone is bad. But is also easily used as an excuse. If someone says they're mafia, I need more reason than he's being silly to not vote for them.

I'm in complete agreement with you here. I just don't understand why people voting for zebra didn't even consider a vote for Wilgy or a vote for reywaS. They're all different flavors of the same thing. It's essentially voting for someone for lack of town-minded contribution.

[AllAlongTheBoardwalk]

Game question: When does this vote end?

[AllAlongTheBoardwalk]

Well, that was a lot to read...skimmed some of it there, but I'm mostly caught up now.

I think JaggedJimmyJay and MovingPictures07 are good. I like the back and forth discussion, even if it ends up creating way more content than I want to read, and I'm taking DB's word that he was being sarcastic and tabling that discussion.

As for my vote, I'm leaning Wigly just because of his (or her?) weird behavior. And I'm not super experienced by any means, but I see no good reasoning for calling yourself mafia. Playing weird or 'fake' outing yourself because its funny isn't an adequate defense of this to me.

Thoughts on this? As of now that's where my vote is, but I will consider alternatives.

I understand Wilgy's behavior is outwardly dancing with WIFOM, but I've seen this guy (and others) behave this way and flip town before, so it's not as if calling yourself mafia is a sure tell for it. I'm with you though; Wilgy hasn't adequately defended his "contributions" thus far.

I personally think a vote for zebra equals a vote for Wilgy which equals a vote for reywaS at this point. They're all policy lynches for "unhelpful" behavior and lack of contributions, each a different flavor if you will. I'd like to think I had something more solid with my nutella thoughts, but hey, that's just me.

Fair point.

[Tangrowth]

Here were my thoughts on nutella, for anyone who cares:

That last point brings me to nutella. I think she's brought awesome knowledge with respect to the theme, but with regards to strictly game-related content she was quick to jump on both Elo and DB for DB's proposal, and I see that as potentially convenient. She said there's possible "nefarious" intent in what DB has said; considering he proposes no current plan of action, and understanding his plan as is since he has elaborated, I don't see any such intent. I would like to hear her elucidate this matter; pending her explanation, she could move back up to null. Otherwise, I'm inclined to believe she may be taking advantage of easy targets, particularly due to the relative strong diction of her wording:

Spoiler: show

OK, I'm back from graduating!! and caught up.

Zebra, I have no idea how you got so confused but it's pretty weird that you voted without even looking at the poll time.

Matt's inexplicable naming of Niju as the Process is perplexing and his refusal to explain it is even more so. Matt tends to be zany but I'm keeping an eye on him for this strange behavior.

I think that Drum's alliance proposition is probably a terrible idea and might have nefarious motivations. The Process is just one role/player, so even with its many powers it probably won't be impossible to get rid of, while the Camerata team is a significant threat and more in number for us to take down. I find Drum quite suspicious for the proposal and I also find Elo suspicious for expressing interest in it and then sort of covering her tracks -- although I believe that she wasn't outright agreeing to the plan in the first place but considering it as an option, but it's still kind of surprising that she jumped on it without acknowledging its suspicious nature.

There's still a whole day but it's looking likely I'll want to vote for either Drum or Elo.


linki @ Drum: huh, I don't really understand, you think the mafia can target specific elements? if they can, will we be told a process element has been eliminated? This all seems pretty speculative, and regardless I largely agree with niju that any degree of alliance/trusting the mafia is too risky especially in such a small game.

Aaaand there's a Cell sock account

Note the contrast between "might be nefarious" and "quite suspicious" for DB and "suspicious" for Elo. I sense a disconnect.

Furthermore, it appears to me that she suspects Elo for agreeing with a plan that she doesn't agree with, but I think Elo's train of thought regarding the matter is transparent, at least from where I'm sitting, and nutella even recognizes this to some degree but still finds Elo suspect.

Moreover, the most suspicious statement is nutella's propensity to feel OK with a vote for either Elo or DB at this point in the day phase, especially not having discussed any other reads (zebra, Matt, me, anyone else). I need to hear from nutella about this ASAP.

It's snipped from the post that contained my first rainbow list. I'll need to update it here soon.

[AllAlongTheBoardwalk]

What is WIFOM?

[nijuukyugou]

MP, you've literally added a page since I started reading this evening! Slow down! :P

I just wanted to say that before I make a more substantial post. And also I'm here to talk things out for a bit, hooray! I'm definitely not inclined towards the zebra lynch, though - reminds me too much of my Day 1 mislynch in Futurama

GAHHHH STOP WITH THE LINKI

[Tangrowth]

Game question: When does this vote end?

About 2 hours and 20 minutes. As a general rule, you can see the poll ending time at the top of the poll.

[nijuukyugou]

Except I wasn't acting like a nut. But it's too easy.

[Elohcin]

You know, I am not going to be distracted by Matt's foolishness this game. I don;t think he is bad. I think he is just zany and his playstyle frustrates me.

My top suspect is Zebra and it is not only her overly confused behavior which seems forced and over the top. But it's also her comment about being able to trust DB in his plan to vote for an element if and only if the mafia takes out an element at night instead of a civilian. I believe her question, asking DB if she can trust him/the civs was a baddie slip.

You've lost my slight town read. Why do you only consider zebra's question under the interpretation of a baddie slip?

B/c DB was talking about how we don;t have to trust mafia to carry out his plan. We just react to their kill. If they kill an element, we vote an element. If they kill a civ, we lynch a person who we think could be Mafia. He kept saying, we don;t have to trust mafia for this. And then Zebra asks (paraphrasing here), how do we know we can trust YOU? I read it as coming from a baddie speaking for the mafia. How can the mafia trust that the civs will vote an element instead of a supposed baddie if the mafia does kill an element. Does that make sense? This is my main reason for voting zebra.

[Tangrowth]

Well, that was a lot to read...skimmed some of it there, but I'm mostly caught up now.

I think JaggedJimmyJay and MovingPictures07 are good. I like the back and forth discussion, even if it ends up creating way more content than I want to read, and I'm taking DB's word that he was being sarcastic and tabling that discussion.

As for my vote, I'm leaning Wigly just because of his (or her?) weird behavior. And I'm not super experienced by any means, but I see no good reasoning for calling yourself mafia. Playing weird or 'fake' outing yourself because its funny isn't an adequate defense of this to me.

Thoughts on this? As of now that's where my vote is, but I will consider alternatives.

I understand Wilgy's behavior is outwardly dancing with WIFOM, but I've seen this guy (and others) behave this way and flip town before, so it's not as if calling yourself mafia is a sure tell for it. I'm with you though; Wilgy hasn't adequately defended his "contributions" thus far.

I personally think a vote for zebra equals a vote for Wilgy which equals a vote for reywaS at this point. They're all policy lynches for "unhelpful" behavior and lack of contributions, each a different flavor if you will. I'd like to think I had something more solid with my nutella thoughts, but hey, that's just me.

Fair point.

I can understand why someone would cast a vote for an "unhelpful" player on Day 1, but I consider it as weak as randomizing, and I'd sooner start thinking about lynching "unhelpful" or generally anti-town appearing players once we've at least gotten to Day 2 or 3. I think the best use of Day 1 is to try to generate at least some meaningful content and cast a vote with at least some slight conviction based on in-thread content that has been determined suspicious.

[AllAlongTheBoardwalk]

Here were my thoughts on nutella, for anyone who cares:

That last point brings me to nutella. I think she's brought awesome knowledge with respect to the theme, but with regards to strictly game-related content she was quick to jump on both Elo and DB for DB's proposal, and I see that as potentially convenient. She said there's possible "nefarious" intent in what DB has said; considering he proposes no current plan of action, and understanding his plan as is since he has elaborated, I don't see any such intent. I would like to hear her elucidate this matter; pending her explanation, she could move back up to null. Otherwise, I'm inclined to believe she may be taking advantage of easy targets, particularly due to the relative strong diction of her wording:

Spoiler: show

OK, I'm back from graduating!! and caught up.

Zebra, I have no idea how you got so confused but it's pretty weird that you voted without even looking at the poll time.

Matt's inexplicable naming of Niju as the Process is perplexing and his refusal to explain it is even more so. Matt tends to be zany but I'm keeping an eye on him for this strange behavior.

I think that Drum's alliance proposition is probably a terrible idea and might have nefarious motivations. The Process is just one role/player, so even with its many powers it probably won't be impossible to get rid of, while the Camerata team is a significant threat and more in number for us to take down. I find Drum quite suspicious for the proposal and I also find Elo suspicious for expressing interest in it and then sort of covering her tracks -- although I believe that she wasn't outright agreeing to the plan in the first place but considering it as an option, but it's still kind of surprising that she jumped on it without acknowledging its suspicious nature.

There's still a whole day but it's looking likely I'll want to vote for either Drum or Elo.


linki @ Drum: huh, I don't really understand, you think the mafia can target specific elements? if they can, will we be told a process element has been eliminated? This all seems pretty speculative, and regardless I largely agree with niju that any degree of alliance/trusting the mafia is too risky especially in such a small game.

Aaaand there's a Cell sock account

Note the contrast between "might be nefarious" and "quite suspicious" for DB and "suspicious" for Elo. I sense a disconnect.

Furthermore, it appears to me that she suspects Elo for agreeing with a plan that she doesn't agree with, but I think Elo's train of thought regarding the matter is transparent, at least from where I'm sitting, and nutella even recognizes this to some degree but still finds Elo suspect.

Moreover, the most suspicious statement is nutella's propensity to feel OK with a vote for either Elo or DB at this point in the day phase, especially not having discussed any other reads (zebra, Matt, me, anyone else). I need to hear from nutella about this ASAP.

It's snipped from the post that contained my first rainbow list. I'll need to update it here soon.

I may be missing something but I'm not sure I agree. I was also suspicious of DB early on. So that doesn't really scream baddie to me.

[Tangrowth]

What is WIFOM?

WIFOM stands for Wine in Front of Me, and it refers to the scene from The Princess Bride where both wine glasses contained poison. It indicates a circular argument.

For example, Wilgy's claiming he is mafia is entirely WIFOM, because:

- Why would any mafia member behave so brazenly? He must be civilian! But...
- That's exactly what he'd want me to think he was mafia! He must be mafia! But...

And then the argument goes around in circles. Nothing can be ascertained without guesswork.

[Tangrowth]

"Rather standard meta point": What does that mean?

My motivation was to pressure AATB to provide content, hopefully meaningful. I think it accomplished that, so I moved it. I don't understand why that would be seen as mafia compatible instead of town compatible.

To make an assertion in one game based upon the content present in another game is the nature of metagaming.

I didn't say that it has to be mafia compatible and cannot be town compatible. I said that it was a parallel to an incident I remembered from you in the scrimmage game. I had the thought, I brought it into the thread, and I left you to answer to it. I make specific references to specific moments in other games quite frequently, it's one of my favorite analytic methods and it often reveals at least something about a player's play style whether the assertion being made is correct or incorrect.

So what have you uncovered from this?

Pretty much just that you don't think the parallel is meaningful and that you seem to harbor doubts about me as a result of my talking about it. You should understand that you've asserted yourself in this game with a meteoric post count compared to other players including me, and especially after seeing what you did in the scrimmage it is imperative that you be critically assessed in whatever ways possible. Before the scrimmage, I might have genuinely been inclined to just hand you a town read given the degree of effort and interaction. I know now that I cannot do that anymore with you and that means I'm going to poke and prod wherever I must to try to distinguish your play.

Fair enough, makes sense. I welcome examination; I have nothing to hide.

[Tangrowth]

Can you somehow reword or elaborate upon this? I'm not coming to the same conclusion.

Matt threw out the rather arbitrary "nijuu is obviously the Process" bit. There's clearly not going to be a substantive case to support this assertion on Day 1 and I am sure Matt is well aware of that. I don't think it's terribly difficult to find a town mindset behind that move -- it'd be a reaction-baiting read. I do that sort of thing often in games too, especially early. With that in mind, I don't see much evidence that Elohcin was considering the dynamic of what Matt might be doing with an objective or broad enough mindset. I had thought she was outright accusing him for it on the basis that he was just "throwing names out there", though she has since claimed that this was more about playstyle and not an actual baddie read on him. That can be believed or not believed at face value. I do think it's dubious.

Ah, I see, this makes sense now. I can consider this perspective to Elo's behavior.

[DrWilgy]

@Eloh in Spirited away I went after you really hard. There were points where everyone had stated I had become mean in my casings.

[Tangrowth]

Please show me the treatment you've given Matt that you're referring to and I will judge whether there's a meaningful parallel.

Relevant quotes:

Spoiler: show

zebra and Matt, please explain why any of the rest of us should believe you're town and why you voted so far ahead of the deadline with essentially baseless reasoning.

Now we're all left in a position where we have to determine the motivation behind zebras's actions, and she has made herself a potential hot button mislynch if she is town, or is blatantly acting in an anti-town fashion if she is mafia.

If your intention was reaction baiting, I think there could have been other ways to accomplish this rather than cast a meaningless vote in a game with nonchangeable votes.

Spoiler: show

This doesn't help either, Matt. Just b/c someone votes you doesn't mean you have to get them back by voting them. Get them back by making an educated decision about who could be mafia, and vote them.

zebra and Matt, please explain why any of the rest of us should believe you're town and why you voted so far ahead of the deadline with essentially baseless reasoning.

Um whatevs.

It was like, 3:00 am last night and I was dead tired, Zeebs votes me and says "wait isn't day supposed to end????" and I read that and start trippin' cuz I'm wondering if there are some kind of "end the day early" shenanis going on, so yeah, I NO U'd the shit out of her "random" vote because I was trippin'.

In retrospect, if there was "end the day early" shenanis going on, and by Zeebs, then that would mean she's probably civ because usually civs hold that power, I believe.

But again, whatevs, I was tired, I was trippin', I voted dat Zebra.

So do you think she's bad or not? I'm unclear on that.

Spoiler: show

I have no idea what I think about Zebra. I'm wondering wth she meant by "wait wasn't the day supposed to end??" and I'd like her to come back and explain herself.

Oh, okay. Well, I agree. Do you have any thoughts on anyone else?

Spoiler: show

Yeah let's lynch the Bloops. She's the Process, right?

What makes you think that?

Spoiler: show

Because it's obvi?

?????

[nijuukyugou]

nutella, why do you have an intent to consider a vote for Elohcin and DrumBeats? What are the nefarious intentions in DrumBeats's plan, as currently elaborated?

DrumBeats, I would like to hear some other thoughts out of you; you say you aren't against scumhunting but almost all of your posts have been about your proposal. Anything else?

Does anyone have any read or opinion on zebra or Matt shooting off their votes immediately, other than it being strange?

I guess I'll work on a rainbow list now that I'm caught up, but I still feel like the discussion has been mostly fruitless with respect to anything alignment-indicative or hunting-worthy so far. Hopefully we can change that before the deadline.

The "voting for each other" thing is reminiscent of the craziness of Biblical mafia, when two of the roles were cursed to vote each other until they were dead. I think it's too early for that sort of mechanic, perhaps, but you did ask for thoughts, and this game is pretty...secret

Regarding zebra, I was thinking about the behavior today. I wonder if she has a role where she has to act confused? Like, all the time? In a very obvious manner, like this one? It is definitely out of character/playstyle for her to be acting like this, but she's also being consistently confused about things that are not confusing, which gives me much pause. Is there a character or mechanic in the actual game that might explain the behavior? Someone also mentioned that the Process could be behind it already (can't remember who), which is something to consider. Part of me is not wanting to ignore weird behavior, but more of me says that blatantly weird behavior on Days 1 is not something mafia does - lying low is their best bet early on.

Does anyone truly believe that Elo thought that Wilgy was "cursed" ?

C'mon now.

To be honest, no. Her saying that didn't come off as genuine. I believe her frustration is genuine with mafia in general and people flailing about on Days 1 and throughout Spirited Away, but she's more observant than that. Which brings me to this comment, which makes me raise an eyebrow:

And no, I don't think Wilgy is being very helpful either, but he does this regardless of alignment. I don't recall Zebra ever behaving this way.

DF, you hurt me!

;__;

I reccomend everyone stop voting Zebra. The easiest lynch day 1 is never mafia. 4 vote lead? Only 1.5 players actively opposing said lynch? Other options mentioned are Eloh and Matt? Perhaps DB? Yet Matt's the only other with votes on him?

Hey Eloh, compare Matt's actions this game to mine in Spirited Away for me. How do these compare?

Don't lynch Zebra she's my teammate.

I don't remember how you acted in spirited away, can you remind me?

I seriously doubt this. She was frustrated as hell in that game, and Wilgy was an absolute nut in that game (both being himself and because of his role), so I don't think Eloh's memory is as bad as that, unless she's being sarcastic here.

[Elohcin]

@Eloh in Spirited away I went after you really hard. There were points where everyone had stated I had become mean in my casings.

Ah, yes, I remember. Why do players see my as such prey?

[Tangrowth]

I would consider Elohcin a candidate for my final vote. I do think her treatment of Matt was rather restrictive and it didn't really indicate that she was trying to figure him out -- rather it looked like she took an immediate stance and perhaps even Matt's bait. I'm also not convinced by her response to my assertion that she was a little overzealously interested in DrumBeats's proposal. I've said that this was a unique circumstance which poses a unique reactive challenge to the baddie team. I think it's more believable for people to express at least a little bit of honest paranoia/doubt before easing into the idea. She's responded to that accusation, but I'm not entirely inspired.

How is Elo's treatment of Matt different than mine? I'm genuinely curious as to your train of thought here.

Do you believe Elo when she says she thought Wilgy was "cursed", and that's why she didn't lecture him about his play the same way she did me?

I don't believe it, because Wilgy always acts the way he's been acting this game. So why think he was "cursed" ?

A parallel would be if someone came in the thread and said "Oh hey, Matt's talkin' some crazy theory shit, he must be cursed."

Derp.

I'm not sure what I believe with the cursed determination. It is odd, considering this isn't exactly outside of Wilgy's meta to behave like this. I'd like to hear more in detail about why Elo determined Wilgy was cursed and zebra and you are not.

[dodo]

@Epi

Does Cell get to vote in the poll?

[Tangrowth]

MP, you've literally added a page since I started reading this evening! Slow down! :P

I just wanted to say that before I make a more substantial post. And also I'm here to talk things out for a bit, hooray! I'm definitely not inclined towards the zebra lynch, though - reminds me too much of my Day 1 mislynch in Futurama

GAHHHH STOP WITH THE LINKI

Sorry, I was posting as I caught up, and I tend to have a lot to say.

I'm also disappointed in the fact that so many have voted with such baseless reasoning. I don't understand how this Day progressed at all. I agree that the lynch train is forming too easily and is likely a mislynch. It could be that zebra is mafia, but if she is, then she'll be caught by pure chance.

[Tangrowth]

You know, I am not going to be distracted by Matt's foolishness this game. I don;t think he is bad. I think he is just zany and his playstyle frustrates me.

My top suspect is Zebra and it is not only her overly confused behavior which seems forced and over the top. But it's also her comment about being able to trust DB in his plan to vote for an element if and only if the mafia takes out an element at night instead of a civilian. I believe her question, asking DB if she can trust him/the civs was a baddie slip.

You've lost my slight town read. Why do you only consider zebra's question under the interpretation of a baddie slip?

B/c DB was talking about how we don;t have to trust mafia to carry out his plan. We just react to their kill. If they kill an element, we vote an element. If they kill a civ, we lynch a person who we think could be Mafia. He kept saying, we don;t have to trust mafia for this. And then Zebra asks (paraphrasing here), how do we know we can trust YOU? I read it as coming from a baddie speaking for the mafia. How can the mafia trust that the civs will vote an element instead of a supposed baddie if the mafia does kill an element. Does that make sense? This is my main reason for voting zebra.

I suppose that makes sense. I just don't understand why the conclusion is to determine it as a baddie slip. I see it as inevitably non-alignment indicative. Couldn't zebra have been merely asking a question about why the thread at large, or she herself, can trust DrumBeats? It's too ambiguous.

[DrWilgy]

@Eloh in Spirited away I went after you really hard. There were points where everyone had stated I had become mean in my casings.

Ah, yes, I remember. Why do players see my as such prey?

Because cake is delicious silly. Now that you remember, can you please comment comparing Matt now and me that game?

[Tangrowth]

Here were my thoughts on nutella, for anyone who cares:

That last point brings me to nutella. I think she's brought awesome knowledge with respect to the theme, but with regards to strictly game-related content she was quick to jump on both Elo and DB for DB's proposal, and I see that as potentially convenient. She said there's possible "nefarious" intent in what DB has said; considering he proposes no current plan of action, and understanding his plan as is since he has elaborated, I don't see any such intent. I would like to hear her elucidate this matter; pending her explanation, she could move back up to null. Otherwise, I'm inclined to believe she may be taking advantage of easy targets, particularly due to the relative strong diction of her wording:

Spoiler: show

OK, I'm back from graduating!! and caught up.

Zebra, I have no idea how you got so confused but it's pretty weird that you voted without even looking at the poll time.

Matt's inexplicable naming of Niju as the Process is perplexing and his refusal to explain it is even more so. Matt tends to be zany but I'm keeping an eye on him for this strange behavior.

I think that Drum's alliance proposition is probably a terrible idea and might have nefarious motivations. The Process is just one role/player, so even with its many powers it probably won't be impossible to get rid of, while the Camerata team is a significant threat and more in number for us to take down. I find Drum quite suspicious for the proposal and I also find Elo suspicious for expressing interest in it and then sort of covering her tracks -- although I believe that she wasn't outright agreeing to the plan in the first place but considering it as an option, but it's still kind of surprising that she jumped on it without acknowledging its suspicious nature.

There's still a whole day but it's looking likely I'll want to vote for either Drum or Elo.


linki @ Drum: huh, I don't really understand, you think the mafia can target specific elements? if they can, will we be told a process element has been eliminated? This all seems pretty speculative, and regardless I largely agree with niju that any degree of alliance/trusting the mafia is too risky especially in such a small game.

Aaaand there's a Cell sock account

Note the contrast between "might be nefarious" and "quite suspicious" for DB and "suspicious" for Elo. I sense a disconnect.

Furthermore, it appears to me that she suspects Elo for agreeing with a plan that she doesn't agree with, but I think Elo's train of thought regarding the matter is transparent, at least from where I'm sitting, and nutella even recognizes this to some degree but still finds Elo suspect.

Moreover, the most suspicious statement is nutella's propensity to feel OK with a vote for either Elo or DB at this point in the day phase, especially not having discussed any other reads (zebra, Matt, me, anyone else). I need to hear from nutella about this ASAP.

It's snipped from the post that contained my first rainbow list. I'll need to update it here soon.

I may be missing something but I'm not sure I agree. I was also suspicious of DB early on. So that doesn't really scream baddie to me.

I'm glad you've voiced this.

It's not so much the suspicion of DrumBeats itself that pinged me, though that was a factor, but what remains my strongest point here is that nutella voiced with such confidence, without any willingness to reconsider, that she would vote for either Elo or DrumBeats, even though she within that same post recognized that she merely disagrees with the plan, and that appears to be the sole basis of her suspicion. What bothers me is she appears particularly closed minded to exploring any other avenues of suspicion, regardless of what she or others could attempt to discuss for the rest of Day 1. Rather, she seemed resigned to just lynch one of two people merely for disagreeing with them.

That doesn't seem like townie behavior to me, but I can't tell for certainty what her mindset was, and she hasn't been here to respond to my concerns. I'd much rather have seen her lynched today than zebra.

[DrWilgy]

Hmm... Baddies tend to list thier teammates along with others when doing comparisons. If Eloh is bad, I'm thinking Nutella is as well.

[Elohcin]

You know, I am not going to be distracted by Matt's foolishness this game. I don;t think he is bad. I think he is just zany and his playstyle frustrates me.

My top suspect is Zebra and it is not only her overly confused behavior which seems forced and over the top. But it's also her comment about being able to trust DB in his plan to vote for an element if and only if the mafia takes out an element at night instead of a civilian. I believe her question, asking DB if she can trust him/the civs was a baddie slip.

You've lost my slight town read. Why do you only consider zebra's question under the interpretation of a baddie slip?

B/c DB was talking about how we don;t have to trust mafia to carry out his plan. We just react to their kill. If they kill an element, we vote an element. If they kill a civ, we lynch a person who we think could be Mafia. He kept saying, we don;t have to trust mafia for this. And then Zebra asks (paraphrasing here), how do we know we can trust YOU? I read it as coming from a baddie speaking for the mafia. How can the mafia trust that the civs will vote an element instead of a supposed baddie if the mafia does kill an element. Does that make sense? This is my main reason for voting zebra.

I suppose that makes sense. I just don't understand why the conclusion is to determine it as a baddie slip. I see it as inevitably non-alignment indicative. Couldn't zebra have been merely asking a question about why the thread at large, or she herself, can trust DrumBeats? It's too ambiguous.

I guess so. But right in that moment, that's how I read it. Someone else saw it that way too and I want to say it was JJJ, but I could be wrong.

And as for wilgy cursed....all it was was I saw gibberish and thought, hmm, he must be cursed, so I skipped over it and went on with responding to those who were speaking English. Its not like it was a big enormous deal or anything. And why would Matt be cursed? Cursed to do what? I'm confused.

[Tangrowth]

Hmm... Baddies tend to list thier teammates along with others when doing comparisons. If Eloh is bad, I'm thinking Nutella is as well.

Explain this for me. In which post(s) does this comparison occur?

[DrWilgy]

Hmm... Baddies tend to list thier teammates along with others when doing comparisons. If Eloh is bad, I'm thinking Nutella is as well.

Explain this for me. In which post(s) does this comparison occur?

Nutellas assessment of both Drum and Eloh.

[Tangrowth]

nutella, why do you have an intent to consider a vote for Elohcin and DrumBeats? What are the nefarious intentions in DrumBeats's plan, as currently elaborated?

DrumBeats, I would like to hear some other thoughts out of you; you say you aren't against scumhunting but almost all of your posts have been about your proposal. Anything else?

Does anyone have any read or opinion on zebra or Matt shooting off their votes immediately, other than it being strange?

I guess I'll work on a rainbow list now that I'm caught up, but I still feel like the discussion has been mostly fruitless with respect to anything alignment-indicative or hunting-worthy so far. Hopefully we can change that before the deadline.

The "voting for each other" thing is reminiscent of the craziness of Biblical mafia, when two of the roles were cursed to vote each other until they were dead. I think it's too early for that sort of mechanic, perhaps, but you did ask for thoughts, and this game is pretty...secret

Regarding zebra, I was thinking about the behavior today. I wonder if she has a role where she has to act confused? Like, all the time? In a very obvious manner, like this one? It is definitely out of character/playstyle for her to be acting like this, but she's also being consistently confused about things that are not confusing, which gives me much pause. Is there a character or mechanic in the actual game that might explain the behavior? Someone also mentioned that the Process could be behind it already (can't remember who), which is something to consider. Part of me is not wanting to ignore weird behavior, but more of me says that blatantly weird behavior on Days 1 is not something mafia does - lying low is their best bet early on.

That's a possibility, but I think it's very slim. I'm not sure why Epi would design such a role in his game, especially since he knows how often weird behavior attracts lynch attention.

What perhaps is more likely, IMO anyway, is a "Jester" role, which is a role for which zebra has to get herself lynched to win. Like Sidoh in Death Note and Tofu Boy in Super Meat Boy?

However, I think the most likely explanation for this behavior is that zebra was willing to most likely sacrifice herself to be the Day 1 lynch to further the townie cause by getting people talking and exposing mafia behavior. It's the kind of gambit I can see her doing, even if it's historically something that Llama would do in games way back when. I don't think she's forced. She seems to be going out of her way to seem unhelpful; if she was forced or compelled to act this way, I would think she would make more effort to try and communicate and assist the town. She ignored all questions directed at her.

[DrWilgy]

(here's the secret... I'm actually Zebra...)

[Tangrowth]

I suppose that makes sense. I just don't understand why the conclusion is to determine it as a baddie slip. I see it as inevitably non-alignment indicative. Couldn't zebra have been merely asking a question about why the thread at large, or she herself, can trust DrumBeats? It's too ambiguous.

I guess so. But right in that moment, that's how I read it. Someone else saw it that way too and I want to say it was JJJ, but I could be wrong.

And as for wilgy cursed....all it was was I saw gibberish and thought, hmm, he must be cursed, so I skipped over it and went on with responding to those who were speaking English. Its not like it was a big enormous deal or anything. And why would Matt be cursed? Cursed to do what? I'm confused.

Why does it matter how someone else read it?

Thanks for explaining.

[Tangrowth]

So having fully caught up and cooled down a bit, I want to apologize if any of my previous content directed at those who have found zebra suspicious comes across as rude or anything like that. I have nothing but the utmost respect for everyone else in this game and would never imply that anyone's thoughts or playstyle are inferior to mine, if anything I don't think I'm very good at this game. I also think it's imperative that townies try and understand each other this game, so my posts and questions are designed to engage all of you folks in conversation in an attempt to determine whether you are mafia, within this game. I mean no offense whatsoever and hope that I didn't cause any.

[DrWilgy]

So having fully caught up and cooled down a bit, I want to apologize if any of my previous content directed at those who have found zebra suspicious comes across as rude or anything like that. I have nothing but the utmost respect for everyone else in this game and would never imply that anyone's thoughts or playstyle are inferior to mine, if anything I don't think I'm very good at this game. I also think it's imperative that townies try and understand each other this game, so my posts and questions are designed to engage all of you folks in conversation in an attempt to determine whether you are mafia, within this game. I mean no offense whatsoever and hope that I didn't cause any.

Thanks MP. I was heavily offended. (not really)

[nijuukyugou]

nutella, why do you have an intent to consider a vote for Elohcin and DrumBeats? What are the nefarious intentions in DrumBeats's plan, as currently elaborated?

DrumBeats, I would like to hear some other thoughts out of you; you say you aren't against scumhunting but almost all of your posts have been about your proposal. Anything else?

Does anyone have any read or opinion on zebra or Matt shooting off their votes immediately, other than it being strange?

I guess I'll work on a rainbow list now that I'm caught up, but I still feel like the discussion has been mostly fruitless with respect to anything alignment-indicative or hunting-worthy so far. Hopefully we can change that before the deadline.

The "voting for each other" thing is reminiscent of the craziness of Biblical mafia, when two of the roles were cursed to vote each other until they were dead. I think it's too early for that sort of mechanic, perhaps, but you did ask for thoughts, and this game is pretty...secret

Regarding zebra, I was thinking about the behavior today. I wonder if she has a role where she has to act confused? Like, all the time? In a very obvious manner, like this one? It is definitely out of character/playstyle for her to be acting like this, but she's also being consistently confused about things that are not confusing, which gives me much pause. Is there a character or mechanic in the actual game that might explain the behavior? Someone also mentioned that the Process could be behind it already (can't remember who), which is something to consider. Part of me is not wanting to ignore weird behavior, but more of me says that blatantly weird behavior on Days 1 is not something mafia does - lying low is their best bet early on.

That's a possibility, but I think it's very slim. I'm not sure why Epi would design such a role in his game, especially since he knows how often weird behavior attracts lynch attention.

What perhaps is more likely, IMO anyway, is a "Jester" role, which is a role for which zebra has to get herself lynched to win. Like Sidoh in Death Note and Tofu Boy in Super Meat Boy?

However, I think the most likely explanation for this behavior is that zebra was willing to most likely sacrifice herself to be the Day 1 lynch to further the townie cause by getting people talking and exposing mafia behavior. It's the kind of gambit I can see her doing, even if it's historically something that Llama would do in games way back when. I don't think she's forced. She seems to be going out of her way to seem unhelpful; if she was forced or compelled to act this way, I would think she would make more effort to try and communicate and assist the town. She ignored all questions directed at her.

That seems like a hell of a gambit for Day 1, unless she knows she can win, dead or alive (or as part of her required role). Is anyone really that dedicated to the civ cause, to completely sacrifice a win for themselves as a civ? Or are you also suggesting she is that Jester role alongside this? This thought process doesn't compute.

[Tangrowth]

Who hasn't yet voted and is currently around?

[Tangrowth]

So having fully caught up and cooled down a bit, I want to apologize if any of my previous content directed at those who have found zebra suspicious comes across as rude or anything like that. I have nothing but the utmost respect for everyone else in this game and would never imply that anyone's thoughts or playstyle are inferior to mine, if anything I don't think I'm very good at this game. I also think it's imperative that townies try and understand each other this game, so my posts and questions are designed to engage all of you folks in conversation in an attempt to determine whether you are mafia, within this game. I mean no offense whatsoever and hope that I didn't cause any.

Thanks MP. I was heavily offended. (not really)

[nijuukyugou]

Who hasn't yet voted and is currently around?

Me!

[DrWilgy]

Me, I'm going to probably vote for Elo. Depends on how she answers the question I gave her.

If not Elo... I'll vote for Sig.

[Tangrowth]

The "voting for each other" thing is reminiscent of the craziness of Biblical mafia, when two of the roles were cursed to vote each other until they were dead. I think it's too early for that sort of mechanic, perhaps, but you did ask for thoughts, and this game is pretty...secret

Regarding zebra, I was thinking about the behavior today. I wonder if she has a role where she has to act confused? Like, all the time? In a very obvious manner, like this one? It is definitely out of character/playstyle for her to be acting like this, but she's also being consistently confused about things that are not confusing, which gives me much pause. Is there a character or mechanic in the actual game that might explain the behavior? Someone also mentioned that the Process could be behind it already (can't remember who), which is something to consider. Part of me is not wanting to ignore weird behavior, but more of me says that blatantly weird behavior on Days 1 is not something mafia does - lying low is their best bet early on.

That's a possibility, but I think it's very slim. I'm not sure why Epi would design such a role in his game, especially since he knows how often weird behavior attracts lynch attention.

What perhaps is more likely, IMO anyway, is a "Jester" role, which is a role for which zebra has to get herself lynched to win. Like Sidoh in Death Note and Tofu Boy in Super Meat Boy?

However, I think the most likely explanation for this behavior is that zebra was willing to most likely sacrifice herself to be the Day 1 lynch to further the townie cause by getting people talking and exposing mafia behavior. It's the kind of gambit I can see her doing, even if it's historically something that Llama would do in games way back when. I don't think she's forced. She seems to be going out of her way to seem unhelpful; if she was forced or compelled to act this way, I would think she would make more effort to try and communicate and assist the town. She ignored all questions directed at her.

That seems like a hell of a gambit for Day 1, unless she knows she can win, dead or alive (or as part of her required role). Is anyone really that dedicated to the civ cause, to completely sacrifice a win for themselves as a civ? Or are you also suggesting she is that Jester role alongside this? This thought process doesn't compute.

You must admit that it is within zebra's repertoire though, yes?

I'm not sure whether win conditions are dead or alive here. That could impact her behavior, for sure.

I sacrificed myself in Arrested Development, and other games, but I was much more willing to do so in those instances because of dead-or-alive win conditions, so yeah, that impacts my theory's viability.

I'm suggesting the Jester role as a distinctly independent possibility; I think, if there is any mechanic at play here compelling her behavior, it's that one. Otherwise, in the absence of anything compelling, my other theory comes in.

[Tangrowth]

Who hasn't yet voted and is currently around?

Me!

For whom are you considering a vote?

[nijuukyugou]

The "voting for each other" thing is reminiscent of the craziness of Biblical mafia, when two of the roles were cursed to vote each other until they were dead. I think it's too early for that sort of mechanic, perhaps, but you did ask for thoughts, and this game is pretty...secret

Regarding zebra, I was thinking about the behavior today. I wonder if she has a role where she has to act confused? Like, all the time? In a very obvious manner, like this one? It is definitely out of character/playstyle for her to be acting like this, but she's also being consistently confused about things that are not confusing, which gives me much pause. Is there a character or mechanic in the actual game that might explain the behavior? Someone also mentioned that the Process could be behind it already (can't remember who), which is something to consider. Part of me is not wanting to ignore weird behavior, but more of me says that blatantly weird behavior on Days 1 is not something mafia does - lying low is their best bet early on.

That's a possibility, but I think it's very slim. I'm not sure why Epi would design such a role in his game, especially since he knows how often weird behavior attracts lynch attention.

What perhaps is more likely, IMO anyway, is a "Jester" role, which is a role for which zebra has to get herself lynched to win. Like Sidoh in Death Note and Tofu Boy in Super Meat Boy?

However, I think the most likely explanation for this behavior is that zebra was willing to most likely sacrifice herself to be the Day 1 lynch to further the townie cause by getting people talking and exposing mafia behavior. It's the kind of gambit I can see her doing, even if it's historically something that Llama would do in games way back when. I don't think she's forced. She seems to be going out of her way to seem unhelpful; if she was forced or compelled to act this way, I would think she would make more effort to try and communicate and assist the town. She ignored all questions directed at her.

That seems like a hell of a gambit for Day 1, unless she knows she can win, dead or alive (or as part of her required role). Is anyone really that dedicated to the civ cause, to completely sacrifice a win for themselves as a civ? Or are you also suggesting she is that Jester role alongside this? This thought process doesn't compute.

You must admit that it is within zebra's repertoire though, yes?

I'm not sure whether win conditions are dead or alive here. That could impact her behavior, for sure.

I sacrificed myself in Arrested Development, and other games, but I was much more willing to do so in those instances because of dead-or-alive win conditions, so yeah, that impacts my theory's viability.

I'm suggesting the Jester role as a distinctly independent possibility; I think, if there is any mechanic at play here compelling her behavior, it's that one. Otherwise, in the absence of anything compelling, my other theory comes in.

Agreed. I think she'd (and really anyone) would pull something like that if there was something in it for them, or required. It is a game to win, after all

[Tangrowth]

Me, I'm going to probably vote for Elo. Depends on how she answers the question I gave her.

If not Elo... I'll vote for Sig.

sig! I completely forgot he's even playing this game there for a bit. Where is he anyway?

[DrWilgy]

Actually... Can we get enough votes on someone to murk em instead of Zeebs?

I propose that we murk Illy, Eloh, or Nero. I had killed DF last game together and don't think I should do that again.

Linki - Exactly

[Tangrowth]

Wait a minute, isn't sig the only player who hasn't posted during Day 1? Perhaps he's been silenced?

[Matt]

I played Spirited Away, but died fairly soon I think.

Elo - Do you have a rebuttal to niju's claim that you should remember how Wilgy was in that game?

Elo - Throughout the phase, Wilgy has been speaking in English in every post except for one, so how did you come to the conclusion he was cursed?

[Tangrowth]

Actually... Can we get enough votes on someone to murk em instead of Zeebs?

I propose that we murk Illy, Eloh, or Nero. I had killed DF last game together and don't think I should do that again.

Linki - Exactly

That's what I'm trying to figure out. There's me, you, Blooper, AATB, at the least, who have yet to vote. Who else?

[DrWilgy]

Eh, kill him anyways. Silly wallflowers thinkin they can just sit on the wall being a flower...

Nerf this!

[Spacedaisy]

If you have a personal problem with me or my gameplay, feel free to let me know through PM so we can hash it out or go to the MoD. I believe Daisy's the mod on this one, she can be great to speak with when one is feeling frustrated.

Awe, thanks Matty!

Seriously though, this is true. I'm here should anyone need to yell at someone because they are just so aggravated they can't keep it bottled up!

Or if you just want to yak at someone and hate not having BTSC, that's always fun too.

Or if you are contemplating getting a Mohawk and would like someone else's opinion.

I'm here for anyone who wants to talk. Except MP, that guy gets on my nerves.