Battlestar Galactica Mafia - GAME OVER

[Matt]

You are reaching, sig. Is it out of a sense of desperation?

What is he desperate about?

[Epignosis]

You are reaching, sig. Is it out of a sense of desperation?

What is he desperate about?

I don't know. That's why I'm asking.

[Polo]

Either SVS or Polo is bad. Frankly, the fact that Polo is saying that he's 100% sure without posting evidence as to why and ISNT getting punished makes me think he's full of shit. I said something way less confirmative and got punished for it. If tomorrow is Polo vs SVS, I guess we will find out which one.

I'm still waiting on someone to tell me why we aren't lynching confirmed Cylon Wigly?!?? One in three (or more) chance of being bad as opposed to the unknown player who is about 2 in three chance of being civvie!?!


Linki: WIGLY, sig (although I think I may have found an alternative situation in my reread here so I reserve the right to remove), rabbit (I think Zebra was recruited), Matt, and either Polo or SVS

Can you assure me that if I'm NK'd tonight you will vote for S~V~S tomorrow?

No? Because if she isn't Mafia, the Mafia would just NK you to set her up? And if she is Mafia, why would she NK you after you've shouted her name for days with out any evidence (and that's making you look bad?) [wifom]I would just continue letting you dig your own grave[/wifom]

There's also the chance that she could NK me in order to make people believe I was just a conspiracy theorist and then everyone ignores that she's mafia and she escapes unscathed. Is this a possibility you ignore?

[S~V~S]

There's also the chance I don't have an NK, you lovable nut.

[ObscureAllure]

G-Man didn't salute.

Either SVS or Polo is bad. Frankly, the fact that Polo is saying that he's 100% sure without posting evidence as to why and ISNT getting punished makes me think he's full of shit. I said something way less confirmative and got punished for it. If tomorrow is Polo vs SVS, I guess we will find out which one.

I'm still waiting on someone to tell me why we aren't lynching confirmed Cylon Wigly?!?? One in three (or more) chance of being bad as opposed to the unknown player who is about 2 in three chance of being civvie!?!

Linki: WIGLY, sig (although I think I may have found an alternative situation in my reread here so I reserve the right to remove), rabbit (I think Zebra was recruited), Matt, and either Polo or SVS

Could you rephrase this, I'm a bit lost in the odds you put forth.

linki: Actually, Vompatti did not post on Day Five.

I'm on the phone so I'm doing it in my head but we are assuming there are between 3-5 Mafia left right? Of 20 peoples. So the random player lynched is three times more likely to be townie than Mafia. However, Wigly isn't six and y'all say that leaves 1 good Cylon left. So there's about 3 Mafia colons he could be, but only 1 good one he could be. He's more likely to be a Mafia statistically than an unknown human or Cylon player. Statistically, we have better odds of finding a Mafia if we lunch him than a random other player. I don't understand why everyone is ignoring this?!

Why as many as five? Is that including Final Five potential baddies / converts or potential human baddies.

Also, it wasn't my impression that we're randomly lynching players.

But overall I understand your point better now, thanks.

Don't know yet how to judge this. Should we clean Wilgy just because the odds are against him to be good? The late Dex made a strong case for Wilgy being Conoy. Do you disagree with it? Also his odds improve (at least lore-wise) if he's actually F5.

Dex saying that when he did is mighty suspicious to me. I don't know what it means, but it just felt weird. I felt the cases brought up against him were strong.

[Polo]

MATT

DO YOU
THINK
RECRUITMENT
IS VERY LIKELY
IN THIS
GAME?!

I'm not Matt, but I think it is a possibility for how the final five mechanic could come into play. I remember people saying/looking into it on the wiki, that of the final five, most of them sided with the humans in the show and one sided with the cylons. I'm wondering if the cylons have a role that lets them recruit the final five over to their side.

I need Matt *specifically* to answer that.

You've now ignored my request, TWICE, to show me where you think I "slipped" in regards to knowing wth you were refering to about Long Con.

You, like Rico, and several cylons, were against saying the magic "I am a Cylon" phrase.

You have been insulting towards me, again and again, in an attempt to discredit my ideas, I think. Based on the way several treat you around here, I doubt that is your usual MO so I have to believe it's a baddie tactic.

Hrm.

Anyway, right now, I'm interested in three things above all...

1) The discrepancy of SSWA punishments.

2) sig's idea that Glorfy is good and Epi is bad. 'Sides Rico, anyone have any thoughts on that? Either sig is a bullshitter and bad...or he's not.

3) I can no longer ignore Polo despite believing for several phases now that SVS was a certain civvie role. You are 100%, Polo? Really?

on #2 (also answering DrumBeats question): the thing is - the two #8 models may not be following lore to the book. I don't know if Goldama is being very liberal with regards to the show's lore, so he may have inverted the two Sharons in order to make this game even weirder.

on #3: Yes, I am.

[Polo]

There's also the chance I don't have an NK, you lovable nut.

[ObscureAllure]

Also Glorfindel saying that players were pushing lore to the wrong conclusion makes me believe he wasn't mafia even if the lore said he should be, furthers my belief he wasn't mafia.

Of COURSE he would say that. Did you expect him to be like "when I flip Mafia, y'all will see I'm tots bad!" The whole point of the game, if you are Mafia, is to lie about being Mafia.

[S~V~S]

There's also the chance I don't have an NK, you lovable nut.

OK, done talking to you. No need to be rude.

[ObscureAllure]

All this talk about Epi being the opposite #8 than he flipped just seems silly to me.

1) Can we really trust anything coming from the dead? There are baddies in there! Of course they are going to try to sow seeds of doubt. One of those messages was generic as hell and the other one I'm almost certain came from Glorfindel.

2) If Epi were some super-devious role-flipping seemer-bot, why wouldn't Glorfindel have fought Epi's status all game long?

3) Are we actually considering some kind of role-flipping seemer-bot ability for the baddies on top of everything we already know/suspect? Isn't that just a little much to cram into one game? Doesn't it make things a more complicated and difficult than it needs to be?

This feels like a distraction that needs to be shelved and ignored.

#2 sounds very reasonable. I could extend to same train of thought to ask why hasn't Dex's read on Wilgy-as-likely-Conoy been strongly, specifically contested so far, just like the Wilgy-is-Six line has received major no's?

For me, I haven't personally seen anything from him or anyone else that says they are Conoy. I have, however, seen a very clear hint and situation that tells me who Six (and probably Gaias) are when that person wasn't being suspected and cylinders were a target which makes me think they'd have no reason to lie about it. (And it wasn't Wigly.)

[Polo]

There's also the chance I don't have an NK, you lovable nut.

OK, done talking to you. No need to be rude.

There was no bad intent in this post; I found that picture today and decided to use for I was just trying to break the ice. I'm sorry if you felt that way and I won't do this again.

[S~V~S]

OK, Thanks for that.

[ObscureAllure]

Either SVS or Polo is bad. Frankly, the fact that Polo is saying that he's 100% sure without posting evidence as to why and ISNT getting punished makes me think he's full of shit. I said something way less confirmative and got punished for it. If tomorrow is Polo vs SVS, I guess we will find out which one.

I'm still waiting on someone to tell me why we aren't lynching confirmed Cylon Wigly?!?? One in three (or more) chance of being bad as opposed to the unknown player who is about 2 in three chance of being civvie!?!


Linki: WIGLY, sig (although I think I may have found an alternative situation in my reread here so I reserve the right to remove), rabbit (I think Zebra was recruited), Matt, and either Polo or SVS

Can you assure me that if I'm NK'd tonight you will vote for S~V~S tomorrow?

No? Because if she isn't Mafia, the Mafia would just NK you to set her up? And if she is Mafia, why would she NK you after you've shouted her name for days with out any evidence (and that's making you look bad?) [wifom]I would just continue letting you dig your own grave[/wifom]

There's also the chance that she could NK me in order to make people believe I was just a conspiracy theorist and then everyone ignores that she's mafia and she escapes unscathed. Is this a possibility you ignore?

Totally possible. I just think it's unlikely. SVS is a very straight forward player. She typically plays to her gut and emotions, and fights with every breath for what she believes or what she wants people to believe that she believes. However, I've never known her to backdoor people or play the "if I kill him" approach. If anything, I'd say she usually goes for low posters or confirmed townies when she night kills.

[Epignosis]

Have I ever killed S~V~S? I cannot think of a time.

[S~V~S]

I can't think of a time you did either.

[sig]

I'm not desperate about anything, I looked everything over and I don't see how Glorfindel could be mafia, his game play was super civvie for him and his EOD actions reminded me of Arkham not Star Wars at all. The difference is to big, also keep this in mind people said for awhile Bea was a potential teammate of Glorfindel however, she didn't flip cylon. I believe Glorfindel wasn't a mafia cylon as in he wasn't on the team that has the kill.

Epi's reaction to my thoughts is exactly what baddie Epi would do.

Also Glorfindel saying that players were pushing lore to the wrong conclusion makes me believe he wasn't mafia even if the lore said he should be, furthers my belief he wasn't mafia.

Do you believe this game is a bastard / inversed format compared to the lore? Do you believe the original Cylon numbers were randomised in mafia / town, the same way the F5 might be randomised among most seemingly human roles?

I don't see why I should believe Athena is bad and Boomer is good, compared to lore, unless the game is inherently tainted from the beginning. The Host hinted that lore should be helpful. This is basically taking lore in account, but flipping everything on its head.

It could be either randomized, or a recruited scenario this would explain the final five scenario as well. Maybe Cavil has a certain number of players he can recruit or something like that. Also remember Golden said the lore would be helpful not necessary. I doubt that would boil down 100% to alignment. It could've also been something special for just the number 8 seeing how we have two. It could even be that Glorfindel was a traitor role who never turned traitor since in my quick read up it seems like Boomer wasn't always bad.

This theory really does boil down to my experience on Glorfindel and my current thoughts on Epi. Again why would the mafia leave such a good player alive for so long if he was basically civ cleared? Nobody really suspected him and he wasn't in danger of getting lynched so why let him live? If I was a mafia member I'd have shot him by now, unless he was either always mafia or could be flipped to be mafia. At this time I believe it is possibly that he was always mafia. A few quick points also to reinforce this
Epi didn't actively help with the Resurrection ship hunting
He refused to claim
He tried to steer the thread away from the claiming idea and said it didn't help, however this is proven to be false since multiply cylons refused to claim until they were almost lynched. Lorab, Glorfindel, and Wilgy.

Also a quick look at his voting record.
Day 1
He along with three other cylons didn't vote.
Day 2
Again he didn't vote
Day 3
He was the second vote on Nero who flipped civ, if I recall correctly he voted Nero before Lorab claimed.
Day 4
Epi AGAIN voted on a counterwagon to Lorab this time attempting to lynch me. THIS is two days he voted on a wagon other than Lorab an outed most likely baddie Cylon.
Day 5
Votes for Glorfindel bringing the Glorfindel wagon closer to Wilgy who is also an outed cylon.
Day 6
He votes for Drum avoiding both mine and Glorfindel's wagon. This is something Epi did during Turf Wars multiply times in the case of two close wagons.
Day 7
He votes for Glofindel again, oddly enough he didn't vote for Glor day 6 he said he found a nuggets of information which convinced him Glor was mafia, yet he also voted for Glorfindel day 5 he just avoided the wagon on day 6.
Day 8
He voted for Rabbit

I don't think this voting pattern looks good I think it looks really scummy, he never voted for Lorab even after she claimed Cylon and in fact contributed to a counter wagon on me. This is the same wagon Wilgy voted on who is also an unknown cylon.
This is a very bad look for Epi having never voted for Lorab or Wilgy and in fact voted on counterwagons to both.

Also almost everyone on Epi's day 1 wagon is dead, the most suspicious being Ika who died after insisting Epi be lynched again. Why kill Ika unless Epi was mafia? One could say it was done to frame Epi, but I doubt that since if Epi was civ and we lynched him, Ika would have quickly followed. I believe Ika was killed so there wouldn't be as many people trying to lynch Epi, Ika was one of the loudest voices for an Epi lynch.
Daisy is the same sort of thing, she was killed for wanting to lynch Wilgy another outted cylon. Unless Ika was right about Epi there would've been no reason to kill him, he was distracting the thread and could have led us on a witch hunt of Epi resulting in two civs dead.

The pattern here is clear the mafia is killing the civs who want to lynch them it's that simply. First it was Ika who wanted to lynch Epi then it was Daisy who wanted to lynch Wilgy. Both of whom are cylons who attempted to save Lorab.

MM (who voted for Epi day 1 as well) said a few things about Epi which could've contributed to his death.

I don't think we can permanently kill ANY Cylon until the Rezz Ships are destroyed.

So we should avoid lynches or else we could end up lynching a human.

We can still Cylon-hunt and find some in the process.

We can, but we need to be very damn sure of who we choose to lynch.

I hope Gaius Baltar does a good job.

I'm not going to treat it any differently to be honest. It's a bummer that the Cylons won't currently die, but despite what Epignosis had to say about the rezz ship, I think it is crucial that we do destroy it.

As for him, I think we need to be careful about what he has to say. Currently, I think he is a player that we need dead, and that he is taking this opportunity of undeath to either sway us the other direction on him, or distract us from hunting other Cylons.

This is day 1 but, notice MM wants Epi lynched he is just willing to wait on it.

Well since Lorab probably isn't human, she needs to go.

So does Epignosis.

Day 4
Talks about lynching Epi.

The only reason I want to lynch Epignosis is because he is a Cylon. But there are a total of 13 Cylons in this game.

Also, considering our dynamic win conditions, I'm willing to hold off on lynching him to see if the status quo changes again. Additionally, based on the setup, there may come a point in the game where the Cylons outnumber the Humans, and the last thing I want is for a massive Cylon Revolt that would kill off all of the Humans one-by-one. Creating a situation where it is a black-and-white Human-vs-Cylon scenario would be the most detrimental thing to happen just because of the numbers.

One more thing. We don't even know if Epignosis would die in a lynch anyway. He could just be rezzed again. :P

Another thing from day 4. True after this he doesn't mention Epi that much. So this could be an unrelated kill, however the fact that almost everyone who spoke out agaisnt Epi was killed and almost everyone who voted for Epi have been killed is telling.

He also didn't help to lynch nutella another outed most likely mafia cylon.

This isn't an awesome case, it isn't 100 percent right or anything like that, but I think once you add up all the little oddities done by Epi this game and actually start to question his actions regardless of Glorfindel you'll see he isn't very civvie, hasn't helped to lynch any cylon, defended outted cylons, killed those who voted/tried to lynch him, didn't help with Resurrection ship hunting, and haven't voted for ANY cylons besides Glorfindel who believed Epi was mafia. SO that is three cylons two of whom we are almost certain are bad who he didn't help to lynch and worked agaisnt lynching and one unconfirmed, but most likely bad. Leaving on Glorfindel who he helped to lynch who if I'm right which I think I am isn't a member of Cavil's killing gang.

linki: OA you fail to recognize my main point that I don't believe Glorfindel was mafia, however you already have shown you don't pay attention to certain details as you STILL say I'm a confirmed cylon and have still failed to address how I'm a confirmed cylon.

[rabbit8]

I can't think of a time you did either.

[sig]

One other unrelated point about me, if I'm a bad cylon do you believe Lorab was a good cylon? If you believe Lorab was bad what do you think of the fact I was her counterwagon?

This is addressed to those who think I could be bad, I'd also like an answer from OA regarding how I could be a cylon.

[S~V~S]

I can't think of a time you did either.

Did he kill me and I forgot? All the murders blend in together....

[rabbit8]

I can't think of a time you did either.

Did he kill me and I forgot? All the murders blend in together....

I was just thinking of all the times I've killed you.......

GLORIOUSLY!!

[S~V~S]

years & years of killing the same people over & over again, you lose track of who you killed when, and who killed you, you know?

[Golden]

Hey peoples

Sorry, I should have known better than to make this phase 24 hours. I'm extending it to 48. My wife and I are celebrating our anniversary today (although it was really a couple of days ago).

See you tomorrow.

[Polo]

Congratulations!

[Epignosis]

I'm not desperate about anything, I looked everything over and I don't see how Glorfindel could be mafia, his game play was super civvie for him and his EOD actions reminded me of Arkham not Star Wars at all. The difference is to big, also keep this in mind people said for awhile Bea was a potential teammate of Glorfindel however, she didn't flip cylon. I believe Glorfindel wasn't a mafia cylon as in he wasn't on the team that has the kill.

Epi's reaction to my thoughts is exactly what baddie Epi would do.

My reaction is exactly what I would do if I were bad?

What would you have expected from me if I were good?

Also Glorfindel saying that players were pushing lore to the wrong conclusion makes me believe he wasn't mafia even if the lore said he should be, furthers my belief he wasn't mafia.

Do you believe this game is a bastard / inversed format compared to the lore? Do you believe the original Cylon numbers were randomised in mafia / town, the same way the F5 might be randomised among most seemingly human roles?

I don't see why I should believe Athena is bad and Boomer is good, compared to lore, unless the game is inherently tainted from the beginning. The Host hinted that lore should be helpful. This is basically taking lore in account, but flipping everything on its head.

It could be either randomized, or a recruited scenario this would explain the final five scenario as well. Maybe Cavil has a certain number of players he can recruit or something like that. Also remember Golden said the lore would be helpful not necessary. I doubt that would boil down 100% to alignment. It could've also been something special for just the number 8 seeing how we have two. It could even be that Glorfindel was a traitor role who never turned traitor since in my quick read up it seems like Boomer wasn't always bad.

This theory really does boil down to my experience on Glorfindel and my current thoughts on Epi. Again why would the mafia leave such a good player alive for so long if he was basically civ cleared? Nobody really suspected him and he wasn't in danger of getting lynched so why let him live? If I was a mafia member I'd have shot him by now, unless he was either always mafia or could be flipped to be mafia. At this time I believe it is possibly that he was always mafia. A few quick points also to reinforce this
Epi didn't actively help with the Resurrection ship hunting
He refused to claim
He tried to steer the thread away from the claiming idea and said it didn't help, however this is proven to be false since multiply cylons refused to claim until they were almost lynched. Lorab, Glorfindel, and Wilgy.

No, I didn't help with ship hunting because it was a crap shoot and I can spot a crap shoot for a crap shoot. The squares would get checked, and as I had no information on locations, I stayed out. It disinterested me. I hate Battleship anyway. Stupid guessing game.

Do you have a problem with me refusing to claim, when I am a known Cylon?

I still don't think the claiming theory worked. They were only outed because they were almost lynched, which, they would have been outed anyway because they would have been lynched. The claiming idea was bad game theory. Nobody caught anybody because of it.

Also a quick look at his voting record.
Day 1
He along with three other cylons didn't vote.
Day 2
Again he didn't vote
Day 3
He was the second vote on Nero who flipped civ, if I recall correctly he voted Nero before Lorab claimed.
Day 4
Epi AGAIN voted on a counterwagon to Lorab this time attempting to lynch me. THIS is two days he voted on a wagon other than Lorab an outed most likely baddie Cylon.
Day 5
Votes for Glorfindel bringing the Glorfindel wagon closer to Wilgy who is also an outed cylon.
Day 6
He votes for Drum avoiding both mine and Glorfindel's wagon. This is something Epi did during Turf Wars multiply times in the case of two close wagons.
Day 7
He votes for Glofindel again, oddly enough he didn't vote for Glor day 6 he said he found a nuggets of information which convinced him Glor was mafia, yet he also voted for Glorfindel day 5 he just avoided the wagon on day 6.
Day 8
He voted for Rabbit

I don't think this voting pattern looks good I think it looks really scummy, he never voted for Lorab even after she claimed Cylon and in fact contributed to a counter wagon on me. This is the same wagon Wilgy voted on who is also an unknown cylon.
This is a very bad look for Epi having never voted for Lorab or Wilgy and in fact voted on counterwagons to both.

Did you know I can spin anybody's vote record to make them look bad? It isn't hard. A good vote is a bus or a distance, a bad vote is save, blah blah blah. It's so easy to do. You're spinning, mate.

Also almost everyone on Epi's day 1 wagon is dead, the most suspicious being Ika who died after insisting Epi be lynched again. Why kill Ika unless Epi was mafia? One could say it was done to frame Epi, but I doubt that since if Epi was civ and we lynched him, Ika would have quickly followed. I believe Ika was killed so there wouldn't be as many people trying to lynch Epi, Ika was one of the loudest voices for an Epi lynch.

I can think of another reason ika got killed Night 1 that had nothing to do with me. Maybe you can work it out. Loudest voice? Yes. Annoying voice? Perhaps.

Daisy is the same sort of thing, she was killed for wanting to lynch Wilgy another outted cylon. Unless Ika was right about Epi there would've been no reason to kill him, he was distracting the thread and could have led us on a witch hunt of Epi resulting in two civs dead.

You know why daisy was killed, eh?

The pattern here is clear the mafia is killing the civs who want to lynch them it's that simply. First it was Ika who wanted to lynch Epi then it was Daisy who wanted to lynch Wilgy. Both of whom are cylons who attempted to save Lorab.

Does this mean you think Lorab, DrWilgy, and I all have BTSC?

MM (who voted for Epi day 1 as well) said a few things about Epi which could've contributed to his death.

I don't think we can permanently kill ANY Cylon until the Rezz Ships are destroyed.

So we should avoid lynches or else we could end up lynching a human.

We can still Cylon-hunt and find some in the process.

We can, but we need to be very damn sure of who we choose to lynch.

I hope Gaius Baltar does a good job.

I'm not going to treat it any differently to be honest. It's a bummer that the Cylons won't currently die, but despite what Epignosis had to say about the rezz ship, I think it is crucial that we do destroy it.

As for him, I think we need to be careful about what he has to say. Currently, I think he is a player that we need dead, and that he is taking this opportunity of undeath to either sway us the other direction on him, or distract us from hunting other Cylons.

This is day 1 but, notice MM wants Epi lynched he is just willing to wait on it.

Well since Lorab probably isn't human, she needs to go.

So does Epignosis.

You are astounding.

The context of MM's post was that Cain had just issued Martial Law, and all Cylons needed to die. Scroll up a half a dozen posts to see the host post. Notice the face that MM produced. He didn't want to lynch me. He was sad that my death was necessary for his win.

You are spinning without context, sig.

Day 4
Talks about lynching Epi.

The only reason I want to lynch Epignosis is because he is a Cylon. But there are a total of 13 Cylons in this game.

Also, considering our dynamic win conditions, I'm willing to hold off on lynching him to see if the status quo changes again. Additionally, based on the setup, there may come a point in the game where the Cylons outnumber the Humans, and the last thing I want is for a massive Cylon Revolt that would kill off all of the Humans one-by-one. Creating a situation where it is a black-and-white Human-vs-Cylon scenario would be the most detrimental thing to happen just because of the numbers.

One more thing. We don't even know if Epignosis would die in a lynch anyway. He could just be rezzed again. :P

Another thing from day 4. True after this he doesn't mention Epi that much. So this could be an unrelated kill, however the fact that almost everyone who spoke out agaisnt Epi was killed and almost everyone who voted for Epi have been killed is telling.

Do you know how I said I can spin votes any way I want?

Night kill selections are no different.

"Everyone who voted Epi!"

That's two people. Two.

He also didn't help to lynch nutella another outed most likely mafia cylon.

Neither did you. You voted me. I fell asleep in my chair and didn't vote.

This isn't an awesome case,

No, it isn't.

it isn't 100 percent right

Imagine that.

or anything like that, but I think once you add up all the little oddities done by Epi this game and actually start to question his actions regardless of Glorfindel you'll see he isn't very civvie,

hasn't helped to lynch any cylon,

Yeah, I didn't do anything to Glorfindel- you got me on that.

defended outted cylons,

I'm a Cylon. Is it a stretch I might defend one? Did I ever defend one? I'm not sure. I can't remember. It's all like...tears...in the rain.

Sorry, wrong thing.

killed those who voted/tried to lynch him,

didn't help with Resurrection ship hunting,

Goddamn right I didn't.

and haven't voted for ANY cylons besides Glorfindel who believed Epi was mafia.

Glorfindel believed I was good until I put his ass on the fire.

SO that is three cylons two of whom we are almost certain are bad who he didn't help to lynch and worked agaisnt lynching and one unconfirmed, but most likely bad. Leaving on Glorfindel who he helped to lynch who if I'm right which I think I am isn't a member of Cavil's killing gang.

Why are "we" almost certain two are bad? Who are those? Name names. Name numbers. Name roles. Stop using pronouns without antecedents.

sig, if I have to command your lynch, I will. Get your shit together, or I will retaliate, and I don't care what your role is.

Quit wasting my time.

[ObscureAllure]

One other unrelated point about me, if I'm a bad cylon do you believe Lorab was a good cylon? If you believe Lorab was bad what do you think of the fact I was her counterwagon?

This is addressed to those who think I could be bad, I'd also like an answer from OA regarding how I could be a cylon.

I actually I think got something backwards. I interpreted something about you based on my knowledge of someone else, but my knowledge of someone else was interpreted wrong which makes you shoot up my town-read-o-meter. This game is crazy. I don't know if you're bad or not, but I don't think you're a Cylon. I guess you could be final five, but I definitely don't think you're a Cylon anymore.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

OBSCUREALLURE

I'd like to know what you think of all this stuff.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Except the they're/their mistake I made in there. I don't want to hear about that.

[Polo]

OBSCUREALLURE

I'd like to know what you think of all this stuff.

Interesting. I think this means ObscureAllure is Caprica Six, which is why she is not comfortable with leaving Sig and Wilgy alive.

Wilgy is the only of those who is a confirmed Cylon, which means I have been wrong in believing he was Caprica Six; this means he is probably Leoben Conoy. And after a quick read at lore I think I know what is Leoben's rolepower.

[Polo]

If you folks are against Cavil's faction, we need to get S~V~S lynched tomorrow. Can I get an amen?

[ObscureAllure]

OBSCUREALLURE

I'd like to know what you think of all this stuff.

Nothing on there is substantial. I was one of the first votes for Glor and you've coco eminently left out posts of me pushing for his lunch before he even had lots of votes. You're also leaving out my push of lunching his teammates. And I've already corrected the sig thing.


Go ISO the confirmed Cylon Wigly, if you please. Or are you just going to ignore that he's more likely to be bad than good? Because when he's bad and you see I've been screaming it since night two, maybe then you'll believe me.

[ObscureAllure]

OBSCUREALLURE

I'd like to know what you think of all this stuff.

Interesting. I think this means ObscureAllure is Caprica Six, which is why she is not comfortable with leaving Sig and Wilgy alive.

Wilgy is the only of those who is a confirmed Cylon, which means I have been wrong in believing he was Caprica Six; this means he is probably Leoben Conoy. And after a quick read at lore I think I know what is Leoben's rolepower.

Show me why you think he's Conoy. Show me. Because he says he's not bad? Show me actual evidence.

[ObscureAllure]

And no, go read my last posts. I do not believe sig is a Cylon anymore and will not push for his death anymore. He could still be bad, but I think he'd have to be F5 if so.

[Ricochet]

And no, go read my last posts. I do not believe sig is a Cylon anymore and will not push for his death anymore. He could still be bad, but I think he'd have to be F5 if so.

Can you describe what changed or what you misinterpreted? Again, it seems I was right to pick on bea F5 character, so please, test me out on picking further clues. But this "I see things and that's that" is not helpful conversation.

===

I don't recall SVS and Polo, respectively, addressing my questions in this post.

[Ricochet]

EBWOP: on bea as* / on bea hinting at being a*

[JaggedJimmyJay]

OBSCUREALLURE

I'd like to know what you think of all this stuff.

Nothing on there is substantial. I was one of the first votes for Glor and you've coco eminently left out posts of me pushing for his lunch before he even had lots of votes. You're also leaving out my push of lunching his teammates. And I've already corrected the sig thing.


Go ISO the confirmed Cylon Wigly, if you please. Or are you just going to ignore that he's more likely to be bad than good? Because when he's bad and you see I've been screaming it since night two, maybe then you'll believe me.

I don't care about the sig stuff. I care about your visible groaning about potential infodumping.

I haven't promoted the notion that Wilgy is a good cylon. I have no idea why you're saying this to me. I actually thought he looked iffy in the Glorfindel interactions too.

[Polo]

OBSCUREALLURE

I'd like to know what you think of all this stuff.

Interesting. I think this means ObscureAllure is Caprica Six, which is why she is not comfortable with leaving Sig and Wilgy alive.

Wilgy is the only of those who is a confirmed Cylon, which means I have been wrong in believing he was Caprica Six; this means he is probably Leoben Conoy. And after a quick read at lore I think I know what is Leoben's rolepower.

Show me why you think he's Conoy. Show me. Because he says he's not bad? Show me actual evidence.

Who do you think he is, then? On the game I played with civ Wilgy he kept trying too hard to be quirky and weird but started taking it serious once he found out he needs to help.

Tell me, ObscureAllure, would you lynch S~V~S tomorrow? I'm voting her if I'm still alive.

[Polo]

Polo, what degree of confidence do you have in your read on S~V~S?

High enough for me to say this: if she's lynched and she's not Cylon, then you can lynch me on the next day.

I am 100% sure she's mafia.

Are you claiming to have info? Becasue that would be impossible. And that would be the only 100% you could have, tbh.

And Jay, I kept poking her over & over, and she kept not responding. Since the Nutella lynch. Had she just once poked back, I would have backed off, but she never did, and she posted tons

The only way you could be sure that it'd be impossible for me to have info is if you know you killed the character that can have that information.

Mafia doesn't find out the role of the victims, unless they have such a power role. Are you implying the Mafia has this?

This exchange is... intriguing.

I've addressed this previously. I believe that mafia has one character whose nightpower is to find out a player's role or, at the very least, someone who can see on who a player targeted their power.

Rico, are you willing to help lynch S~V~S tomorrow?

[S~V~S]

Polo, what degree of confidence do you have in your read on S~V~S?

High enough for me to say this: if she's lynched and she's not Cylon, then you can lynch me on the next day.

I am 100% sure she's mafia.

Are you claiming to have info? Becasue that would be impossible. And that would be the only 100% you could have, tbh.

And Jay, I kept poking her over & over, and she kept not responding. Since the Nutella lynch. Had she just once poked back, I would have backed off, but she never did, and she posted tons

Why impossible?

And I don't degree of confidence =/= having info.

Polo, what degree of confidence do you have in your read on S~V~S?

High enough for me to say this: if she's lynched and she's not Cylon, then you can lynch me on the next day.

I am 100% sure she's mafia.

Are you claiming to have info? Becasue that would be impossible. And that would be the only 100% you could have, tbh.

And Jay, I kept poking her over & over, and she kept not responding. Since the Nutella lynch. Had she just once poked back, I would have backed off, but she never did, and she posted tons

The only way you could be sure that it'd be impossible for me to have info is if you know you killed the character that can have that information.

Mafia doesn't find out the role of the victims, unless they have such a power role. Are you implying the Mafia has this?

This exchange is... intriguing.

The only way to be 100% sure of someones role is if the host told you that information; anything else is supposition, even if it is 99%, 100 percent means host based info. There is one role with a known power of checking whether or not someone is a cylon~ I do not think Polo is that role; and even if he was, that role detects cylons, not roles. I saw someone in this game get punished (we all did)for implying that someone else, not even them, had info.

Now, a prize role check is possible, and lots of roles have secrets. But if Polo was blatantly info dumping, he would have been punished. The fact that he is not punished means no info. I also say it means no info since it is not true. And this I DO know 100% since my role is info given my by the host. Polo cannot have been told by the host that "SVS is Cavil" becasue A), it is not true, and B) if he had been he would be info dumping & punished, and he is not.

So he cannot be 100% sure. He *believes* he is correct, he does not know it (and he isn't correct).

Polo is very very sure, but he does not have info. I know this becasue he is wrong, not becasue of any convoluted reasoning involving killing anyone.

[Polo]

Oh, I am so anxious for your lynch or, on worst case scenario, for endgame. I will be proven right.

[Ricochet]

Polo, what degree of confidence do you have in your read on S~V~S?

High enough for me to say this: if she's lynched and she's not Cylon, then you can lynch me on the next day.

I am 100% sure she's mafia.

Are you claiming to have info? Becasue that would be impossible. And that would be the only 100% you could have, tbh.

And Jay, I kept poking her over & over, and she kept not responding. Since the Nutella lynch. Had she just once poked back, I would have backed off, but she never did, and she posted tons

The only way you could be sure that it'd be impossible for me to have info is if you know you killed the character that can have that information.

Mafia doesn't find out the role of the victims, unless they have such a power role. Are you implying the Mafia has this?

This exchange is... intriguing.

I've addressed this previously. I believe that mafia has one character whose nightpower is to find out a player's role or, at the very least, someone who can see on who a player targeted their power.

Rico, are you willing to help lynch S~V~S tomorrow?

Would you find the game balanced if town would be kept in the dark about any flip whatsoever, whilst Mafia would be fully informed, except, at best, on whether the lynchees were town or indy?

SVS hunted nutella properly (and early, and voted to push her back into contention) and had a sixth sense, apparently, against Cain Con. Unless her ISO interactions with Glorfindel come out as capital sin, she's rather low on my baddie radar for the former two motives. Anything else I missed, in the big picture?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Oh, I am so anxious for your lynch or, on worst case scenario, for endgame. I will be proven right.

If you could choose just one word to describe the origin of your suspicion for S~V~S, what would it be? I don't mean your confidence level, I mean her specific offense -- summarize it in a single word.

If you can't, give me a brief phrase. This might sound pointless, but I have my reasons for asking.

[Ricochet]

SVS, would you say you're "100% sure" that "Polo is not that role", or simply you "don't think" that "Polo is that role"?

Also, what's your strongest townread atm? One name, please.

[Epignosis]

On page three of Polo's posts, there is a single mention of S~V~S. Here it is:

Hey, SVS, I don't know what are your reads. Excuse me for asking everyone but I think being transparent about your own reads is a must if you have nothing to hide.

Here are mine, by the way:

RED = mafia
BLUE = neutral
GREEN = civ


a2thezebra
Bea
Black Rock
Dex
DrumBeats
Dr. Wilgy
Epignosis
G-Man
Glorfindel
JaggedJimmyJay
Matt
Metalmarsh89
ObscureAllure
Ricochet
sig
Silverwolf
S~V~S
SokothQultuq
Vompatti

That was Day 6.

On page two of Polo's posts, there are thirty-one mentions of S~V~S. Here is one during Night 6:

There are two players that have kinda been hiding in the shadows and we may need to look into them more: ObscureAllure and S~V~S. Unfortunately I'll be very busy today and won't be able to properly post my ISOs of them until really late in the evening. But still we need to go after Glorfindel ASAP.

A half an hour later:

The thing that bothered me and is making me nervous about S~V~S are these posts:

I'll repeat myself: I'd rather go after Cavil and his pack before doing anything with regards to Cain.

Do you know who he is?

Let's do it. Give me a name.

I don't. Do you think Cain is a bigger threat to town than Cavil?

I think Cain is a threat, yes, Martial law is not a good thing. Trashing peoples win cons is not a good thing. And I *think* I know who he is. Which is the salient point.

Thanks for the reminder.

I'm not ever going to give people a civ pass for claiming, but be damn sure that the evil Cylons aren't okay with losing their first lynch immunity.
Most people have already used up their claim; do you want to let Cavil and his toaster pals get the upper hand? Frakking hell.

If I were an evildoer, I'd be perfectly okay playing ball. Why? Because it buys me credibility with people like you. You are operating under the assumption that the people who aren't claiming must be bad because...well, they didn't claim! Even if you say you are not walking that path, you are. And your enthusiasm here sounds forced to me.

Say, tell me more about this "first" lynch immunity.

Here:

A new law has been passed.

Cylon Amnesty Act: Any person may publicly admit to being a cylon and, if the declaration is true, they will have immunity from the lynch for that day. Once a person has outed themselves as a cylon, they cannot do it a second time.

They'll be immune to being lynched on the day of the declaration. That's what I meant; on the next day onward they'll be lynchable.

The Amnesty Law can be ignored if everyone claims Cylon.

What does that have to do with we all now need Epi dead to win?It isn't fair and it's wrong.

I don't want Cains win cons, I want the win cons I had back. I want to defeat Cavil, and I want to do it free from a dictator. Who probably has other things up her evil sleeve, tbh.

Lynch Cavil and then we lynch Cain. I said nothing about lynching Epi.

And do you think you know who Cavil is? You say this like it is a simple thing. Did someone forget to send me the "Who IS Cavil" memo?

Lets see what happens in the night; if the win cons changeback I will back right the fuck off (see SIlver! I said "fuck" ). If they don't then as far as I am concerend, a bird in the hand etc. becasue Cain has to go since who knows what she will do next under martial law.

She uses the universal assumption that Epi is good in order to remove any merit from my suggestion of getting everyone to claim Cylon. This could have been done in order to ensure that we keep wasting time discussing claims and the unclaimed and guarantee that the unclaimed would not get flak for not claiming, for there would be more people okay with that.

She still strongly believes that Cain is a bigger threat than Cavil, and showed aggressiveness when I said Cavil should die before Cain.

How in the frak could that be possible? Any civilian could do with lynching Epi if that were necessary to ensure victory, but who the hell thinks we need to lynch a civ/independent character before the Mafia boss? Long Con/Admiral Cain was more dangerous to mafia than he/she was to civs.

I think S~V~S is cylon; I think she may have had info on Long Con's role; I also think the Mafia used Nutella as a scapegoat to clear S~V~S and OA of suspicion (cuz they voted in favor of lynching a bad Cylon); and S~V~S could be John Cavil. I ask Gaius Baltar to use his power on S~V~S.

More reasoning later; also I plan on ISO'ing ObscureAllure.
I am perfectly aware that I may or may not take some flak from the mafia team due to this post.

I raise this because during Day 6, Polo called S~V~S a civilian. His turnaround against her and preoccupation with her began during the course of Night 6, not during Day 7, after which Night actions would have been traditionally processed.

His second post Day 7 is a two-fold declaration:

Folks, Glorfindel's survival by claiming last day is enough to warrant his lynch. There is no plausible way he's not a Cylon.

S~V~S is mafia Cylon and we need her lynched ASAP.

And he didn't waste any time:

I am standing by my word and I'm going to vote now: vote S~V~S.

I'll write a big post when I get home.

I'm perfectly fine with a Glorfindel lynch and I endorse it too, but I'll try to convince you all to vote for S~V~S.

Based on these findings, I do not believe Polo has damning information on S~V~S from the host, since he called her a civilian Day 6 and turned around on her Night 6.

In addition, the points he raised against her don't convince me. His concern over this one, for example, might be due to linguistic differences:

I'll repeat myself: I'd rather go after Cavil and his pack before doing anything with regards to Cain.

Do you know who he is?

Let's do it. Give me a name.

Polo would rather go after Cavil, and S~V~S says the above.

My interpretation of this post is, "How in the hell do you "go after Cavil? Do you know who he is? Name the player who corresponds to that role and let's get on with it." The point being, in this setup, you are going to be hard pressed to "go after" Cavil, given that there is no mention of his team, BTSC, or revelations of allegiance in the lynch posts.

[Polo]

Folks, I had some real stinky personal issues and may be missing from this thread in the next 36h or so. I might have to ask for a replacement later, but I'll try to spare the game from suffering because of me.

[S~V~S]

SVS, would you say you're "100% sure" that "Polo is not that role", or simply you "don't think" that "Polo is that role"?

Also, what's your strongest townread atm? One name, please.

No I am not 100% sure; it is totally based on thread & impressions, not on anything i, or the thread, was told by the host.

Based on thread and on things she said (and on things other people said) Silver was my strongest town read. INH has not done anything to actively keep that up, but he has played a cautious game that I would expect MOST people to play were they a strong town role.

[S~V~S]

Also, hope it works out Polo.

[Golden]

THE CYLON OCCUPATION OF NEW CAPRICA

There had many months of solitude on New Caprica. Life quality was poor. The habitable zone was habitable, but it didn't make for good living. But one thing seemed sure - the cylons had not found them, and there was a strong belief that they could not find them.

Until the day that they did.

Cylons arrived by their thousands. Crowds gathered to see them arrive. Amongst the cylons, a few familiar faces elicited gasps. These people were dead! How were they here now?

As the crowds continued to gather, John Cavil addressed them all.

"Subjects" said Cavil "the lines are now drawn. You stand with me, or you stand against me, and all shall know the truth of which of you are which."

An era of fear had dawned on New Caprica.

Nerolunar, Juliets, Spacedaisy and Dex have appeared amongst us again.

Battlelines have been drawn. Lynches will now reveal true affiliations.

Day 9 has dawned. You have 48 hours to put someone to the lynch.

[Golden]

Hey folks,

It's your admiral again. Recommendation: if you're playing with your hand face down, cut it out. Transparency is necessary this late in our drama, and survivalist mentality only decreases one's chance of victory even if it feels like a good idea. Put it all out there and let's figure this crap out as a team.

Your orders for today: provide reads on everyone. There aren't that many of us left, so there are no excuses. EVERYONE. Even if you think you have one person figured out and want to spend the entire day talking about that: give me at least one submission with reads on EVERYONE. Laziness and stubborn refusal to contribute to the team effort will both be regarded as treasonous and dealt with accordingly.

SO SAY WE ALL.

[Golden]

The president of the colonies has brought in a new law

Word Rationing Act: Each player is limited to no more than 10 posts in each day or night period. Each person must number their posts.

[Golden]

Polo is required to talk like Yoda today.