Transistor [ENDGAME]

[Phoebe Buffay]

I think it is strange that you would say that to me considering you voted for me. The inconsistency makes me think your offer is fairly self serving.

silly Mac! I vooted 2 take u to prom!

I know u need us to die to win, but N the meentime, like, can't we just hang out? Im cheering 4 u, Mac!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Should I bother asking, Cheerleader?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

JJJ...

What... Are your thoughts on the process?

I don't really know. I can hardly figure out how the role functions, let alone who has it. After I finish running through MP's interactions I'll follow up on the night poll thing I mentioned before and see if I can find anything. Same for you, Man, with your request.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Things MovingPictures07 said to/about DrumBeats:

Spoiler: show

Anybody want to trade votes tomorrow to loophole this self-voting thing? /s

What is the reason for wanting to trade votes?

Poking at him for his joke about self-votes.

Spoiler: show

I bet the process gets to choose which ability he uses and maybe after he uses an ability, it is revealed?

Seems sensible.

What thoughts do you have, Elo, any? You seemed to dislike DrumBeats's declaration of swapping votes. Why?

Poking his team mate about her reaction to that joke. It's a small point perhaps and WIFOM, but I don't think most baddies would say to their team mates so early in the game: "say more about our team mate right now, forge a relationship".

Spoiler: show

I bet the process gets to choose which ability he uses and maybe after he uses an ability, it is revealed?

Seems sensible.

What thoughts do you have, Elo, any? You seemed to dislike DrumBeats's declaration of swapping votes. Why?

I don't think it productive at all. It's not any better than self voting. I believe he even said it would be a way of finding a loophole. I am tired of the self voters b/c I find it a lack of participation and even more so, a hindrance to one's team whether they are civ or mafia. And I told Epi (half way through the game I just hosted) that I wish I'd have made it a rule that you cannot self vote. He liked the idea

That's understandable; it's why I created the "no self voting" rule to begin with, and I'm glad to see it catch on.

Do you really think that viewpoint has any reflection of DrumBeats's alignment, however? What is the mafia motivation for him proposing that?

Carrying on that point with Elohcin.

Spoiler: show

Lastly, for the idea that DrumBeats proposed regarding working "with the mafia" to eliminate The Process, I don't think worrying about this at this stage is healthy, since:
1) I don't know how we are supposed to effectively hunt for The Process at this time.
2) You can never "trust" the mafia enough to work with them on something.

Nonetheless, it does seem both factions have a mutual benefit in ridding the game of The Process, so I think inadvertently the mafia will be working with us on that matter. I don't think any specific attempt to work with them would be at all fruitful, unless we reach a certain point later in the game where we can somehow try to pinpoint The Process based on actual hunting procedures, and at that time we can re-open this discussion. But that's just my opinion.

Resistant to DB's Day 1 proposal, in contrast to Elohcin's support for it.

Spoiler: show

Lastly, for the idea that DrumBeats proposed regarding working "with the mafia" to eliminate The Process, I don't think worrying about this at this stage is healthy, since:
1) I don't know how we are supposed to effectively hunt for The Process at this time.
2) You can never "trust" the mafia enough to work with them on something.

Nonetheless, it does seem both factions have a mutual benefit in ridding the game of The Process, so I think inadvertently the mafia will be working with us on that matter. I don't think any specific attempt to work with them would be at all fruitful, unless we reach a certain point later in the game where we can somehow try to pinpoint The Process based on actual hunting procedures, and at that time we can re-open this discussion. But that's just my opinion.

Trying to shut down talk of taking out the Process are we? Noted.

It is healthy and arguably necessary to discuss this early in the game. Both factions have a mutual benefit, we will know we can trust the mafia to work with us should they kill one of the process elements tonight. Then we equivalent exchange lynch one the next day. It benefits everyone besides the Process and does nothing to disrupt the town/scum ratio.

Where did I shut down discussion? I added my input, thereby discussing it.

I respectfully disagree. How are we supposed to find out who The Process is?

MP getting a little defensive while debating the merits and plausibility of Process-hunting on Day 1. This could be seen as a baddie getting annoyed at facing a perceived inaccurate accusation, as often happens when criticized by townies. That'd be a decent look for DB.

Spoiler: show

nutella, why do you have an intent to consider a vote for Elohcin and DrumBeats? What are the nefarious intentions in DrumBeats's plan, as currently elaborated?

DrumBeats, I would like to hear some other thoughts out of you; you say you aren't against scumhunting but almost all of your posts have been about your proposal. Anything else?

Does anyone have any read or opinion on zebra or Matt shooting off their votes immediately, other than it being strange?

I guess I'll work on a rainbow list now that I'm caught up, but I still feel like the discussion has been mostly fruitless with respect to anything alignment-indicative or hunting-worthy so far. Hopefully we can change that before the deadline.

MP prodded nutella to speak more on her suspicion of DB when she voiced it for him and Elohcin. MP didn't prod similarly about Elohcin, and this was before his Day 1 flip on reading her. That might be a telling contrast.

Spoiler: show

MP Rainbow List #1

Slight Town:
AllAlongtheBoardwalk
DrumBeats
Elohcin

Null:
a2thezebra
agleaminranks
DFaraday
DrWilgy
Illyria
JaggedJimmyJay
Matt
Nerolunar
nijuukyugou
reywaS
sig
thellama73

Slight Mafia:
nutella

Currently players are NOT ranked within groups by order of suspicion; rather, they are alphabetical.

Too many nulls. Please post more, nulls! So far, reywaS hasn't posted at all, and DFaraday and sig haven't posted yet during Day 1. Did I miss anyone else? Hope to hear from them soon.

I'm town reading AATB due to his contribution to the discussion last night when I pressured him, though I want more. I wasn't sure what to make of DrumBeats but having caught up now I'm seeing his attempts to engage people with this plan as genuinely town-minded, but it's still a slight lean. Elohcin is active and I'm enjoying it; I also am reading her attempts to engage others so far as genuine, and her frustrations displayed a townie mindset. All minor, but they're all worth town reads nonetheless. I think forming town reads, even very slight at this stage, is just as important as identifying mafia leans, perhaps even more so. So I intend on trying to sort through these as the day progresses and hopefully form some more. Please help me out with that, folks! Show me your townie spark.

*snip*

One of three green reads in the first rainbow list, alongside MP's team mate Elohcin. I find myself doubting that MP would put half his team in a pile of just three greens when the null pile is so huge. The highlighted cyan portion shows MP attempting to explain that green slot, and it's tentative like he doesn't want to give the controversial DB too much credit. Nice looks.

Spoiler: show

All six of zebra's voters, with perhaps the exception of DrumBeats: You're suspicious, regardless of zebra's alignment.

DB was the only person MP didn't berate among the voters in the Zebra wagon.

Spoiler: show

I'm glad you've voiced this.

It's not so much the suspicion of DrumBeats itself that pinged me, though that was a factor, but what remains my strongest point here is that nutella voiced with such confidence, without any willingness to reconsider, that she would vote for either Elo or DrumBeats, even though she within that same post recognized that she merely disagrees with the plan, and that appears to be the sole basis of her suspicion. What bothers me is she appears particularly closed minded to exploring any other avenues of suspicion, regardless of what she or others could attempt to discuss for the rest of Day 1. Rather, she seemed resigned to just lynch one of two people merely for disagreeing with them.

That doesn't seem like townie behavior to me, but I can't tell for certainty what her mindset was, and she hasn't been here to respond to my concerns. I'd much rather have seen her lynched today than zebra.

Critical of nutella for her handling of DB's proposal.

DrumBeats is still among the greens in the second rainbow list.

Totally drops DB into the orange pile later on in the third rainbow list without having discussed him in the interim.

This is a weird moment. This rainbow came on Night 2. This might just be a case of a baddie forgetting what his fake read on someone was. I've made that mistake before. It'd be a decent look for DB if that's the case since I think baddies are more conscious of their public treatment of their team mates. It's speculative though.

On Day 3 MP moved him back up to the green pile. The progression of this read is disjointed rather like MP's read on nutella was.

Spoiler: show

Unfortunately I have to leave like... now, so I need to vote. I'd still consider a vote for Mac, gleam, or DF, but I don't feel super compelled to vote one of them in particular, and considering recent events unfolding with respect to Snapshot being revealed as role checker, and the possibility that I may be in danger of dying today without being around to cast a defense vote... I'm not sure what to do, but I think the best thing I can do with my vote is to vote for DrumBeats. If Snapshot says that there is a 50% chance one of either me or DrumBeats is bad, I know I'm not bad, then that means there's a 50% chance DrumBeats is bad. I also think, somewhat selfishly, that it seems people will coalesce around DrumBeats more easily than any of the three previous players I mentioned (maybe?), and I'm the only player I know is civilian, and we can't afford a mislynch at this stage of the game with The Process still in play and 3 mafia still alive. Further, while I didn't have any problems with DrumBeats's "plan" with respect to The Process once it was clear what he was saying, I think his recent insistence that we should keep lynching members of The Process could be a good way for him as mafia to keep the thread away from hunting for the mafia. So, with everything said, I am voting DrumBeats, even though I don't feel very confident about it. I'd rather trust the 50% check and try to act in pre-emptive self-preservation in this key phase than throw out a potentially meaningless vote.

MP's self-preservation move on Day 6. He named three suspects and then voted for someone else (DB) who at the time had no votes. That MP was so clearly interested in working with the "50%" thing promoted by Snapshot suggests to me that he wanted DB gone before him to extend his life at least one day -- which would be a good look.

~~~

Things DrumBeats said to/about MovingPictures07:

Spoiler: show

Here are the reads I have atm:

Town reads/leans:
MovingPictures07 - Seems to be genuinely pushing discussion
Elohcin - Active and given me no reason to suspect them. Could be a biased opinion due to them being the one person who actually acknowledged my idea without twisting it into "lets ignore the mafia"
JJJ - Seems to be genuinely scumhunting. A little less active than he seems to usually be but he's in a ton of games at once right now iirc.

Null reads:
DrWigly - How the hell do you read somebody like this
Matt - Seems to be different than the conspiracy theory Matt I've seen before, though I'm not sure what that says of his alignment. Very unhelpful and I don't like the early vote, but I'm still not sure here.

Scum reads/leans:
Zebra - Potential scumslip, plus acting WAY too confused about everything. Has contributed nothing and locked a vote way early. My largest scumread right now.
Illyria - Haven't seen much here, but one thing I noticed is that I think Illyria is just skimming. Illyria expressed distaste for my plan saying that we can't trust the mafia and then basically suggested a less civ-beneficial version my plan by saying we should just wait a few days and do it. Should that idea go through it would get rid of scum obligation in removing the threat, which makes me scum lean Illyria a bit.

Dependent read:
Nutella - Depending on the answer to my last question.

Day 1 town read of MP and Elohcin both. Similarly to MP's first rainbow above, if this is a team mate relationship then it's a bold one. I think a Day 1 town read on MP can be forgiven -- it's genuinely difficult to see a baddie behind such a mountainous effort as MP put forth at that stage of the game.

Spoiler: show

And based on that idea, I have a question for everyone. EVERYONE SHOULD ANSWER THIS:

If that is the case, and the three available on the poll are one town, one mafia, and the Process, who do you think is each?

My opinion:
Town-MovingPictures07
Process-nijuukyugou
Mafia-Nerolunar

On Day 3 when the tally was limited to the above three people, he suggested there might be a 1-1-1 town-process-mafia arrangement among them. He called MP the townie in that scenario.

On Day 5 he lumped MP alongside me as a Process suspect in response to the ISO Snapshot put up.

Spoiler: show

Later Scotty.

Snapshot was revealed as a role checker. My immediate reaction to that is it's not a good look for DrumBeats. My perception that Snaphot's ISO on DrumBeats didn't seem entirely sincere could be resolved by the role check -- if Snapshot knows DB is bad, then he/she/it has to convey it somehow, and a big ISO is an ideal method.

Or again, the obvious answer: I am threatening Process elements, so the Process wants me dead. And you also seem to want me dead a bit too much as well. You keep trying to build a case on me based solely on the actions of an entity we know is 100% anti-everyone. Also, if Snapshot did check me, what reasoning would it have for saying I am 70% mafia and 30% Process. Should Snapshot somehow be an outside player trying to help who also checked me, it would express certainty that I was either mafia or process not both. I'm really seeing you as the Process right now.

I would also like to see MP answer to the accusations against him when he gets the chance. My vote will likely fall on one of you two.

Suggests he's likely to vote for either MP or I on Day 6.

Spoiler: show

@Jimmy I think they should be ignored. It's all WIFOM at this point. If somebody else were in the ISO I would feel the same way about it, there's no point trying to deduce the motives behind what a confirmed anti-everyone role says.

MP will be my vote for the day. I don't find his defense compelling and his suspicions feel forced. Three low contributors, but no strong opinion on any, is a safe thing to say but not push, and then the vote on me based solely upon trusting the Process is beyond irrational imo and citing that I suggested we keep lynching the elements without mafia cooperation as evidence against me, which is 100% untrue.

He followed through in light of MP's vote for him.

~~~

I don't really see much here that I don't like. Potential suspicion is reliant upon WIFOM, primarily focused on their early game mutual town reads on one another and Elohcin. Generally I'd say he's not a great candidate to be MP's team mate.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Things MovingPictures07 said to/about reywaS / kneel4justice:

Spoiler: show

Consider my "vote" rescinded.

reywaS, come out to play!

Early Day 1 RVS-type vote thrown at rey/K4J after MP had just done the same to AATB/Scotty.

Spoiler: show

MP Rainbow List #1

Slight Town:
AllAlongtheBoardwalk
DrumBeats
Elohcin

Null:
a2thezebra
agleaminranks
DFaraday
DrWilgy
Illyria
JaggedJimmyJay
Matt
Nerolunar
nijuukyugou
reywaS
sig
thellama73

Slight Mafia:
nutella

Currently players are NOT ranked within groups by order of suspicion; rather, they are alphabetical.

Too many nulls. Please post more, nulls! So far, reywaS hasn't posted at all, and DFaraday and sig haven't posted yet during Day 1. Did I miss anyone else? Hope to hear from them soon.

*snip*

Null pile in the first Day 1 rainbow.

Spoiler: show

I'm not necessarily opposed to DB's idea, but I don't know if the baddies would actually go along with that, since it would require them to spend NKs on the Process but not the player behind it (or anyone else). We also don't know if DB's NK-then-lynch plan is even how to defeat the process.

As far as actual suspicions go, Zebra's weird behavior is striking me as very unhelpful and rather pingy. Matt a bit as well, but at least he's explained himself for the most part.

What about reywaS? His behavior has been the very definition of "very unhelpful"; he hasn't been here.

DFaraday was commenting on the unhelpfulness of Zebra, MP shot back that the same could be said of reywaS. Rey was absent on the first day. MP's defense of Zebra coinciding with this shade on rey4J may be of some significance. The mention is pretty arbitrary and forced, which may indicate distancing. It's a small point perhaps.

Spoiler: show

Sorry for being tardy to the party.

Greetings, rey! I look forward to your thoughts.

lol this post came one minute later, and about 6 hours after the rey post being quoted. It looks like MP realized "oh, he did make a post" and felt the need to scramble back into nice-guy mode. That might be an okay look conversely for rey4J.

Spoiler: show

And no, I don't think Wilgy is being very helpful either, but he does this regardless of alignment. I don't recall Zebra ever behaving this way.

So because you interpret this behavior to be within zebra's meta, but Wilgy's is in within meta, then zebra's behavior being "weird" makes her worthy of your vote? How is that logical at all?

Weird DOES NOT EQUAL suspicious. Can anyone actually explain to me the mafia motivation behind zebra's actions?

Just saw this.
I agree that weird doesn't mean someone is bad. But is also easily used as an excuse. If someone says they're mafia, I need more reason than he's being silly to not vote for them.

I'm in complete agreement with you here. I just don't understand why people voting for zebra didn't even consider a vote for Wilgy or a vote for reywaS. They're all different flavors of the same thing. It's essentially voting for someone for lack of town-minded contribution.

MP was critical of people voting for Zebra on Day 1 and repeatedly suggested that Wilgy or rey would have been equally [un]wise lynch choices. The highlighted bit might not be entirely relevant, but it made me laugh because... well, yeah.

Null pile in the second rainbow list.

Relevant content is limited after that.

K4J is among the light greens in the third rainbow on Night 2.

As has often been the case with MP, there's no clear progression for this read's movement visible in his posts.

Light greens again on Day 3.

~~~

Things reywaS / kneel4justice said to/about MovingPictures07:

Spoiler: show

Okay, so a lot of the things that I have opinions on transpired from or are related to that of Zebra. I understand that the vote for Matt and the mix-up on when the day ended was 'odd', but do I think it warranted any real suspicion? No. That being said, I am suspicious of people who tried to place Zebra in a negative light. I do not have much experience with Zebra but from my previous experience, I know this is a player who is very good at the game and I did not understand how people thought Zebra would be so obvious as mafia - so I think there was definitely some mafia pushing for this. Obviously not everyone can be.

One of the players who was suspicious of Zebra and in doing so caught my eye was DrumBeats. DrumBeats main reason for suspecting was due to the supposed slip when asking why "we" should trust Drumbeats in regards to the whole working with the mafia plan. I read that "we" as the town (and I read the counter-argument against that being that there would be no need to trust Drumbeats, but still felt it was very nit-picky to find "we" as a slip). I give Zebra was more credit than that. To think that that was a slip, I just cannot see it.
With that being said - there is one thing from DrumBeats that makes me hesitate and say this could be a town aligned player. I think the whole proposal to working with the mafia (while I don't agree with it) it would be something that would be sure to bring a lot of attention; something I am not sure a mafia would risk asking for.

Another player that had struck me odd with in joining the Zebra suspicion was DFaraday. Because as he said himself, the extent of the suspicion was because Zebra was acting "weird". Again, I find this problematic because, why would a mafia member have been acting this way? So obviously weird?
I think what makes matters worse was that this (correct me if I am wrong) came AFTER Matt had suggested the idea that Zebra had been somehow affected by the cheerleader poll option, which made perfect sense to explain Zebra's actions, yet that was nearly completely ignored. I am slightly confused on Matt - I really liked that he brought this up and tried to steer the lynch away from Zebra. There was just one comment, where he said that Zebra could have either been the Process or controlled by the Process. I did not follow the logic. Why would Epi create a game mechanic that forces a role who is a threat to both the mafia and civilians to post in a way that essentially exposes them? So that made me pause and think wait - maybe he just sees where the lynch is heading and kind of wants to clear himself in advance. Esp since his vote was already placed there. IDK I am very much up in the air about this, could go either way.

Now aside from Zebra, the other lynch candidate seemed to have been Eloh. First, I think the push for Zebra could have been to avoid an Eloh lynch, but then again it is possible both were civvies. However, I do think that Eloh has been acting suspiciously. The first problem I had was Eloh's suspicion of DrumBeats' comment about finding a loophole for self voting. It strikes me as a contradiction, because you have Eloh saying that her modding experience has showed her how unhelpful civvies can be and how they should put more effort into scum-hunting (which, I agree with BTW!). But it was kind of like she was recognizing that civvies are unfortunately unhelpful and do not act or say things that have the best interest of the town in them - but then, here she is suspecting someone for the loophole comment. It's contradicting, IMO. I've struggled with wanting to comment on players unhelpful styles before even though I don't necessarily see them as bad, so I get that but I do think this was a contradiction. Also there was mentioning of thinking Wilgy was cursed (I did not see that particular post? So if someone could direct me to that, that would be great) but she ignored the idea of Zebra being affected, which IMO was much more believable. Esp since Wilgy is kinda..crazy, already (and I mean that in a good way lol).

Not quite sure what to make of that Eloh/DrumBeats interaction though. Since I suspect both of them, the idea that Eloh would suspect DB for something right off the bat seems kind of unlikely. But I did notice DB trusted Eloh which I did not quite understand. So not sure what to make of their interaction in terms of if both/one/none are mafia.

Another thing that pinged me, but it isn't huge, just something I noticed was Illyria's post explaining that they didn't have a desk job, I get the need to inform players on that. That part was fine, but it was the added part saying I post a lot of OT and emoticons that made me wonder - wait, why are you explaining the way you play? Is it so down the road if people notice you aren't posting meat, you can kind of say - well I told you that is just the way I am. Now that is minor, and I don't recall much after that but it was something I had wondered about

I think that is all that I really was suspicious of. Some players who I am not used to playing with so their username does not really register with me faded in the background. I felt good about MP. I know he is capable of posting a lot when he is mafia but from what I could tell he is genuinely scum-hunting. I think for the most part I don't have solid opinions on anyone else yet, more so neutral.

K4J's first substantive post after replacing in, in which he describes he observations/inferences from his catch-up. MP was the only player K4J provided distinctly positive feedback for. I don't think this is necessarily alarming given that a number of other people stated a similar perspective of MP at that point.

Spoiler: show

And based on that idea, I have a question for everyone. EVERYONE SHOULD ANSWER THIS:

If that is the case, and the three available on the poll are one town, one mafia, and the Process, who do you think is each?

My opinion:
Town-MovingPictures07
Process-nijuukyugou
Mafia-Nerolunar

I actually disagree with this theory...I don't think that Epi would include a mechanic that exposes players' alignment as this would be doing. Especially not the process seeing as that is an independent role and I'm operating on the assumption that lynching the player with that role would eliminate the faction (though perhaps that is somehow false, considering all of its manifestations and their place on the polls??). Regardless of that fact, I still think it would be a mechanism with hindrance to the fairness of the game and don't see Epi doing that.

As for my opinions on each player on the poll:
MP: I feel pretty good about him. There has been much quality and quantity when it comes to his posts. I haven't had the chance to interact with him yet, as he was seemingly silenced, so hopefully I will get to do that this phase.
Nero: I've had problems with Nero's posts. For me, he has come off using appeal to emotion to avoid/excuse him out of making decisions in regards to voting. That being said, it could be coming from a true and genuine place of not having enough confidence in their scum-hunting abilities. There are times I've wanted to not vote at all as a civilian because I truly do not know who is bad. So while I'm suspicious, I'm not anywhere near sure.
Niju: I haven't paid much attention to Niju. Just briefly looked back at her posts and at the tallies, I get the feeling she at least isn't mafia from her interaction with Eloh.

With that being said, I guess the person I would feel most comfortable voting for from this list is Nero. But even then I'm not as sure as I would like to be. I wonder if all three of these are actually civs.

Positive vibes sustained into Day 3.

Spoiler: show

Just looked back briefly at MP's posts on Eloh (thanks to JJJ for making that easier). Not quite sure why MP was getting a town-read on Eloh in the first place, as in I would have disagreed with that, but I can't say the particular point in which he became suspicious of Eloh was all that unreasonable or bothersome. I'd like to see some clarification from MP on why exactly he felt good on Eloh and if I missed that -- my apologies, it is 1 in the morning here, lol.

MP's explanation of his thought process on Eloh throughout the game makes me feel good about it. I can now understand why he felt good about her and admit that even I might have done so had I actually been in the game and playing it real time.

Niju has done nothing to strike me as suspicious. Taking into consideration the suspicion and voting of Eloh, I feel rather confident that she is not working with the mafia.

That being said, my vote is going to Nero.

K4J re-reviewed MP on Day 3 and voiced a more uncertain read concerning the progression of MP's read of Elohcin on Day 1. He prodded for clarification/expansion, and after MP put up that lengthy post doing so K4J's feedback was again positive. My own reception of that content wasn't terribly different. MP did a great job of retroactively explaining his shit even if it was b/s.

Spoiler: show

Checking in on phone (celebrating my brother's birthday; don't want to miss the vote, but I'd like to give proper attention to my guest and family). For what I've been able to pay attention to for the last couple of days, I'm gonna vote MP. When I flip-flop on him, he's almost always bad, and his going after nutella yet reluctance to vote her way from said suspicion looks like a baddie knowing to avoid a lynch. I know that's not an awesome, eloquent explanation for my vote, but phone typing sucks and party calls. I'll address other stuff when I'm able to be more attentive.

I would like to hear from MP about this Nutella change. To me it seems foolish for him to go throughout the course of the game suspecting and then change opinions when Nutella were going to be lynched, because the damage is already done. It would be a poor decision if scum. But I can't expect everyone to act how I would if I were scum in their position. I've been holding the mindset that MP would be trying harder if he were scum and that the silencing was real because I didn't see him as the type to cop out if he were mafia, but perhaps I've been too blinded by these expectations of him.

As the thread climate worsened for MP, particularly as people were asking questions about his treatment of nutella, K4J took part with this post. The highlighted portion is a little suspicious at face value to me -- I've seen baddies qualify a fallen read on a team mate in similar ways.

Spoiler: show

Voted for MP. Sorry, I'm out away from a computer and forgot about the game.

Day 6 vote for MP was 5th of 5, or 4th of 4 if you don't include Cell. This vote solidified MP as the lynch instead of me, so I can appreciate that.

~~~

There are some suspicious moments here to go with a couple decent looks. I'm most bothered by MP's inordinate attention to the silent reywaS on Day 1 and the isolated point I highlighted about K4J. Team mate compatible at least.

[Phoebe Buffay]

Should I bother asking, Cheerleader?

I dont want to hang out with u, Jimmy Johns! Id rather kiss a frog hahaha just 2 seeee if he tunrs into a prince!

Im doing us all a favor & bringing attention on an actual bad thing!

After The j's,lets killlll the njuxuugoky (I can't prononce his name!) )

[kneel4justice]

Sorry I couldn't be around today. Going to try and catch up...
Glad to see people are alive and another element is dead.

[kneel4justice]

Look at the OP:

The Process
The Process will manifest itself in multiple ways.
The Process itself is immune to Kill ( ), and must be lynched to die. If The Process is lynched, all residual processes will die.

This confirms that all Process elements are indeed aligned with the Process. Take that haters.

With one more process element down, I personally think we should pursue Creep today. That secret vote could mess with our lynches hard.

Did anyone specifically deny that the elements were aligned with the process? I don't recall that being a thing, but if it is, it might deserve some more attention.
Anyway, about lynching an element - you know, I was supporting your plan because it seemed most logical, but if you actually read what you have quoted - "If The Process is lynched, all residual processes will die" it would appear that if the player occupying the process role is lynched, the elements will disappear along with it. I would much rather do that.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Things MovingPictures07 said to/about Illyria / MacDougall:

Spoiler: show

MP Rainbow List #1

Slight Town:
AllAlongtheBoardwalk
DrumBeats
Elohcin

Null:
a2thezebra
agleaminranks
DFaraday
DrWilgy
Illyria
JaggedJimmyJay
Matt
Nerolunar
nijuukyugou
reywaS
sig
thellama73

Slight Mafia:
nutella

*snip*

I'm OK with Illyria, nijuu, Nero, and Llama's content so far, but it's not enough to make me feel any way about their alignments just yet. I need more.

*snip*

Null pile in the first rainbow, along with this mildly positive/noncommittal statement.

Spoiler: show

Here are the reads I have atm:

Town reads/leans:
MovingPictures07 - Seems to be genuinely pushing discussion
Elohcin - Active and given me no reason to suspect them. Could be a biased opinion due to them being the one person who actually acknowledged my idea without twisting it into "lets ignore the mafia"
JJJ - Seems to be genuinely scumhunting. A little less active than he seems to usually be but he's in a ton of games at once right now iirc.

Null reads:
DrWigly - How the hell do you read somebody like this
Matt - Seems to be different than the conspiracy theory Matt I've seen before, though I'm not sure what that says of his alignment. Very unhelpful and I don't like the early vote, but I'm still not sure here.

Scum reads/leans:
Zebra - Potential scumslip, plus acting WAY too confused about everything. Has contributed nothing and locked a vote way early. My largest scumread right now.
Illyria - Haven't seen much here, but one thing I noticed is that I think Illyria is just skimming. Illyria expressed distaste for my plan saying that we can't trust the mafia and then basically suggested a less civ-beneficial version my plan by saying we should just wait a few days and do it. Should that idea go through it would get rid of scum obligation in removing the threat, which makes me scum lean Illyria a bit.

Dependent read:
Nutella - Depending on the answer to my last question.

I presume everyone else not stated here is null as well?

Re: Illyria, I haven't played with her in... well, way too long (!!!!), but I haven't seen anything that would set off alarm bells from her yet. I'm not sure I caught what you're saying about the "waiting a few days" thing; can you elaborate upon this?

Prods DB to expand on his baddie read on illyria on Day 1. It was the only name she talked about in response to this post featuring a few other reads on both sides.

Spoiler: show

*sigh*


Dr Wilgy, I get that you are "zany", but your playstyle is making me want to vote for you.

But I am voting for zebra, I have to go to work and will be at work until 1 am tonight so I am voting now. Their confuzzled demeanor seems fake, and over the top.


Votes Zebra

What is the mafia motivation for this behavior?

Pokes Illyria for her Day 1 Zebra vote.

Spoiler: show

Matt, I think you and Elo have very different playstyles which can be problematic. I am reminded that you and I do as well, and you were like a damn dog with a bone decrying I was bad for what.. Four Mafia days?? I was not. I do not trust your instincts. So I am not following an Elo vote.

This is suspicious at face value. You've discredited Elo's ability to make reads based upon her being wrong about you once. The comparison being drawn would also appear inaccurate given that Elo has insisted she doesn't read Matt as a baddie.

I agree.

Agrees with a point I made on Day 1, though the point I made was actually wrought of a misinterpretation ("I'm not following a vote for Elo" rather than "I'm not following a vote by Elo"). If it was Illy's intent to discredit here it was actually Matt she was discrediting, not Elohcin -- MP agreed with the latter assertion. This means it was indirectly a defense of Elohcin and simultaneously a criticism of Illyria. That could be a decent look, given that I think team mates would less prone to this sort of misinterpretation.

Orange in the second rainbow list.

Spoiler: show

Dammit. RIP zebra.

Most of you zebra voters have some explaining to do. Please respond to my concerns at your convenience.

I'm out. Got more database building to do. See you all during Day 2... hopefully.

Linki w/ sig: Hello there! So you were silenced, huh? What are your thoughts on what transpired today?

Fucking hell.

I voted for her because at the time that was my top suspish. I am so sorry Zebra.

Mp, regarding your statement about LA. I can pick up what you are putting down, but I would like some more from her before I get all lynch happy. Okay?

Since it is possible that what we vote during the night can/ will impact someone during the day this is going to make it extra tricky. Especially with several "zany" players to begin with....

But why was she your top suspicion? I don't really understand what compelled so many of you to equate "weird" to suspicious. Look where it's led us. I've seen game after game soiled because people think that behavior that can be construed as "weird" is somehow indicative of mafia motivation. Unless you can point to specific posts by zebra and explain to me that she had been acting in a way that was far and above more indicative of her potentially being mafia than everyone else, I consider the vote to be a policy lynch. And such votes should be viewed with heavy suspicion.

Why is it that you would like some more time for LA but you didn't give that same leniency to zebra? Why the double standard? Are you protecting a teammate?

MP gave Illy crap for her Zebra vote as he did for everyone in that wagon. The highlighted portion is of interest to me because it reveals MP drawing a link between nutella and Illyria -- I think baddies often like to glue either themselves or their team mates to townies, because that can generate a win-win scenario if one of the two is lynched (if the townie is lynched first, the link dissipates and it justifies a friendlier read on the team mate, if the baddie is lynched first it justifies a harsher read on the townie). This is rather speculative I grant.

Spoiler: show

I'd like to talk more about DFaraday, Illyria, and Nerolunar, because I think their content and vote yesterday warrant it. Give me your opinions, people.

Which of the zebra voters look worse? Which look better? Why?

I have a hard time believing DF, Elo, Illy, and Nero are all bad, but it's mathematically a possibility (since the mafia team has 4 members). I want others' input; which of these people do you believe, if any, and why?

MP lumped Illy into the pile of Zebra voters as he criticized the entire wagon save for DB. Based on what I've observed so far, I'd say MP was the harshest in his treatment of DFaraday emerging from this scenario. Illyria heard about it too, but perhaps with less vigor. MP actually promoted a DFaraday lynch.

Red in the Night 2 rainbow

Again in the Day 3 rainbow

Spoiler: show

I know I haven't been great at participating in a while or at addressing my accusers. I have like a half an hour max now, then unfortunately I need to leave to teach and won't be home until after the deadline, so I'll try to do what I can.

With respect to my lynch vote, I don't want to lynch JJJ. I don't really have any reason to believe that he's bad, and Llama and Mac pushing the easy button on it over and over again with practically no attempt to convince anyone else doesn't do anything for me.

Critical of Mac and llama for their treatment of me on Day 6.

Spoiler: show

Unfortunately I have to leave like... now, so I need to vote. I'd still consider a vote for Mac, gleam, or DF, but I don't feel super compelled to vote one of them in particular, and considering recent events unfolding with respect to Snapshot being revealed as role checker, and the possibility that I may be in danger of dying today without being around to cast a defense vote... I'm not sure what to do, but I think the best thing I can do with my vote is to vote for DrumBeats. If Snapshot says that there is a 50% chance one of either me or DrumBeats is bad, I know I'm not bad, then that means there's a 50% chance DrumBeats is bad. I also think, somewhat selfishly, that it seems people will coalesce around DrumBeats more easily than any of the three previous players I mentioned (maybe?), and I'm the only player I know is civilian, and we can't afford a mislynch at this stage of the game with The Process still in play and 3 mafia still alive. Further, while I didn't have any problems with DrumBeats's "plan" with respect to The Process once it was clear what he was saying, I think his recent insistence that we should keep lynching members of The Process could be a good way for him as mafia to keep the thread away from hunting for the mafia. So, with everything said, I am voting DrumBeats, even though I don't feel very confident about it. I'd rather trust the 50% check and try to act in pre-emptive self-preservation in this key phase than throw out a potentially meaningless vote.

Promoted a lynch in the Mac/agleam/DF pile on Day 6 but voted for DB instead. I think this says more about DB than it does about those three.

~~~

Things illyria / MacDougall said to/about MovingPictures07:

Spoiler: show

All right, I am here and caught. Right off the bat, I feel good about overly-enthusiastic MP. Seems like typical civ behavior from him. I also doubt Drumbeats would have proposed the voteswap if he were bad, so my voting choices are already narrowing down. Come on, other people, give me some more to work with.

I concur about MP. Unsure about Drum.

Agrees with llama's early positive notes on MP.

Calls MP one of two town reads in early rainbow list.

This would be a somewhat bold move, not quite so much as the dual MP/Elohcin town reads I observed in DB's analysis.

Spoiler: show

Jay and Silent Film 2

Mac said "Silent Flim" refers to MP in this Day 6 post. If true, it's the only mention Mac made of MP in this game prior to his demise. I think Mac's Day 6 was abysmal. He voted for me very early in the phase with no explanation, and just sat around while the pressure on MP mounted and eventually that wagon overtook mine. He waited until three hours pre-deadline to make this post, and I suspect he might have been pre-emptively linking me to MP. That was the most likely counterwagon to mine given the content I was putting in the thread and the increasingly negative climate surrounding MP. The agenda is visible after that when he immediately set out to claim I bussed MP based upon bad logic after MP had flipped bad.

~~~

I think the Illyria-related content is rather inconclusive; I don't like the Mac-related content. I don't like Mac's failure to mention the game's highest-posting player until Day 6, and I don't like the way he treated Day 6 either.

[kneel4justice]

Hmm, not much there. The thing that strikes me about Gleam is an early defense of Eloh, and a solitary vote for MP during the Eloh wagon. Feels a little calculated.

K4J doesn't give me any reason to suspect foul play.

Faraday is notable for how he's avoided leaving conclusive clues one way or the other this whole game.

Right now, I would be up for a lynch of JJJ, Gleam, or Faraday. I think there's bound to be a baddie there somewhere. I'd love to get other people's reads on those three players.

I understood what you were saying about JJJ possibly trying to appear to be helpful (with the early ISO and then I felt he was asking a lot of questions as opposed to actually discussing things), but the more recent ISO's, which I've just skimmed briefly as I haven't caught up completely yet seem that they have actual opinion and possible conclusions. So, I can't say I am all that bothered with him in comparison to other players. He seems to be genuinely taking on both the mafia and the process.

Could you describe in more detail what you mean about DF? I actually like what I've seen from him. There was a point where I was suspicious of him, but while he isn't a big thread voice, I believe he's been a genuine kind of cooperative. Looking back at the tally, I suppose there could be something suspicious at face value, but his posts have not struck me as bad, tbh.

Gleam is someone I need to look back at. I think Gleam suspected MP early on, so that makes me feel good about not being a teammate of MP's. The suspicion of me about the silencing, while I felt it was a poor suspicion and vote, I think a mafia player would have come up with something better...perhaps Gleam is a process candidate, because if I remember correctly, Gleam voted me, expecting me not to be lynched, but didn't want to vote for an element.....those two things actually don't add up. I will look back at this.

[DrumBeats]

Seriously guys, let's not be dumb here. Based on the number of votes we know Process to currently possess and the 5/2/1 ratio we know to currently exist, we HAVE to lynch an element today.

If we were to misfire and hit town, we would be down to 4/2/1, which ordinarily isn't bad, but when the 1 at the end is guaranteed at least 3 additional votes through elements, it effectively becomes 4/2/4. If after that the mafia kills one of us instead of an element it would drop down to 3/2/4, EVERY TOWN AND MAFIA PLAYER WOULD HAVE TO VOTE THE SAME WAY IN ORDER TO STOP THE PROCESS. And that is assuming that the Process does not have any more latent vote power through elements we've yet to see.

Basically, if we mislynch a townie, today is auto lose for both the town and the mafia. If we lynch the mafia, we will be in relatively good shape, but would need to take out elements following that to stay alive. If we lynch the Process then we will likely be at MILO the next day due to mafia killing a civ. If we lynch an element, then we prevent autolose by Process votes, scum can't really target us tonight if they want a shot at winning because they're low enough in number at this point to not stand a chance against process alone. We NEED to back and forth lynch/shoot elements before acting elsewhere or it is very likely we will lose.

[kneel4justice]

Seriously guys, let's not be dumb here. Based on the number of votes we know Process to currently possess and the 5/2/1 ratio we know to currently exist, we HAVE to lynch an element today.

If we were to misfire and hit town, we would be down to 4/2/1, which ordinarily isn't bad, but when the 1 at the end is guaranteed at least 3 additional votes through elements, it effectively becomes 4/2/4. If after that the mafia kills one of us instead of an element it would drop down to 3/2/4, EVERY TOWN AND MAFIA PLAYER WOULD HAVE TO VOTE THE SAME WAY IN ORDER TO STOP THE PROCESS. And that is assuming that the Process does not have any more latent vote power through elements we've yet to see.

Basically, if we mislynch a townie, today is auto lose for both the town and the mafia. If we lynch the mafia, we will be in relatively good shape, but would need to take out elements following that to stay alive. If we lynch the Process then we will likely be at MILO the next day due to mafia killing a civ. If we lynch an element, then we prevent autolose by Process votes, scum can't really target us tonight if they want a shot at winning because they're low enough in number at this point to not stand a chance against process alone. We NEED to back and forth lynch/shoot elements before acting elsewhere or it is very likely we will lose.

I was going to take back my distaste for lynching an element today, after reading further and actually realizing why an element has to go as far as the voting goes. I'm more inclined to follow this now than I was in my previous post to you about this subject.

[kneel4justice]

It is 1AM and I can't focus, so I will be back tomorrow!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Things MovingPictures07 said to/about nijuukyugou:

Spoiler: show

MP Rainbow List #1

Slight Town:
AllAlongtheBoardwalk
DrumBeats
Elohcin

Null:
a2thezebra
agleaminranks
DFaraday
DrWilgy
Illyria
JaggedJimmyJay
Matt
Nerolunar
nijuukyugou
reywaS
sig
thellama73

Slight Mafia:
nutella

*snip*

I'm OK with Illyria, nijuu, Nero, and Llama's content so far, but it's not enough to make me feel any way about their alignments just yet. I need more.

*snip*

Null pile in the first rainbow list, non-committally positive commentary.

Spoiler: show

MP, you've literally added a page since I started reading this evening! Slow down! :P

I just wanted to say that before I make a more substantial post. And also I'm here to talk things out for a bit, hooray! I'm definitely not inclined towards the zebra lynch, though - reminds me too much of my Day 1 mislynch in Futurama

GAHHHH STOP WITH THE LINKI

Sorry, I was posting as I caught up, and I tend to have a lot to say.

I'm also disappointed in the fact that so many have voted with such baseless reasoning. I don't understand how this Day progressed at all. I agree that the lynch train is forming too easily and is likely a mislynch. It could be that zebra is mafia, but if she is, then she'll be caught by pure chance.

MP agreed with niju's unfavorable perception of the Zebra wagon.

Spoiler: show

nutella, why do you have an intent to consider a vote for Elohcin and DrumBeats? What are the nefarious intentions in DrumBeats's plan, as currently elaborated?

DrumBeats, I would like to hear some other thoughts out of you; you say you aren't against scumhunting but almost all of your posts have been about your proposal. Anything else?

Does anyone have any read or opinion on zebra or Matt shooting off their votes immediately, other than it being strange?

I guess I'll work on a rainbow list now that I'm caught up, but I still feel like the discussion has been mostly fruitless with respect to anything alignment-indicative or hunting-worthy so far. Hopefully we can change that before the deadline.

The "voting for each other" thing is reminiscent of the craziness of Biblical mafia, when two of the roles were cursed to vote each other until they were dead. I think it's too early for that sort of mechanic, perhaps, but you did ask for thoughts, and this game is pretty...secret

Regarding zebra, I was thinking about the behavior today. I wonder if she has a role where she has to act confused? Like, all the time? In a very obvious manner, like this one? It is definitely out of character/playstyle for her to be acting like this, but she's also being consistently confused about things that are not confusing, which gives me much pause. Is there a character or mechanic in the actual game that might explain the behavior? Someone also mentioned that the Process could be behind it already (can't remember who), which is something to consider. Part of me is not wanting to ignore weird behavior, but more of me says that blatantly weird behavior on Days 1 is not something mafia does - lying low is their best bet early on.

That's a possibility, but I think it's very slim. I'm not sure why Epi would design such a role in his game, especially since he knows how often weird behavior attracts lynch attention.

What perhaps is more likely, IMO anyway, is a "Jester" role, which is a role for which zebra has to get herself lynched to win. Like Sidoh in Death Note and Tofu Boy in Super Meat Boy?

However, I think the most likely explanation for this behavior is that zebra was willing to most likely sacrifice herself to be the Day 1 lynch to further the townie cause by getting people talking and exposing mafia behavior. It's the kind of gambit I can see her doing, even if it's historically something that Llama would do in games way back when. I don't think she's forced. She seems to be going out of her way to seem unhelpful; if she was forced or compelled to act this way, I would think she would make more effort to try and communicate and assist the town. She ignored all questions directed at her.

The "voting for each other" thing is reminiscent of the craziness of Biblical mafia, when two of the roles were cursed to vote each other until they were dead. I think it's too early for that sort of mechanic, perhaps, but you did ask for thoughts, and this game is pretty...secret

Regarding zebra, I was thinking about the behavior today. I wonder if she has a role where she has to act confused? Like, all the time? In a very obvious manner, like this one? It is definitely out of character/playstyle for her to be acting like this, but she's also being consistently confused about things that are not confusing, which gives me much pause. Is there a character or mechanic in the actual game that might explain the behavior? Someone also mentioned that the Process could be behind it already (can't remember who), which is something to consider. Part of me is not wanting to ignore weird behavior, but more of me says that blatantly weird behavior on Days 1 is not something mafia does - lying low is their best bet early on.

That's a possibility, but I think it's very slim. I'm not sure why Epi would design such a role in his game, especially since he knows how often weird behavior attracts lynch attention.

What perhaps is more likely, IMO anyway, is a "Jester" role, which is a role for which zebra has to get herself lynched to win. Like Sidoh in Death Note and Tofu Boy in Super Meat Boy?

However, I think the most likely explanation for this behavior is that zebra was willing to most likely sacrifice herself to be the Day 1 lynch to further the townie cause by getting people talking and exposing mafia behavior. It's the kind of gambit I can see her doing, even if it's historically something that Llama would do in games way back when. I don't think she's forced. She seems to be going out of her way to seem unhelpful; if she was forced or compelled to act this way, I would think she would make more effort to try and communicate and assist the town. She ignored all questions directed at her.

That seems like a hell of a gambit for Day 1, unless she knows she can win, dead or alive (or as part of her required role). Is anyone really that dedicated to the civ cause, to completely sacrifice a win for themselves as a civ? Or are you also suggesting she is that Jester role alongside this? This thought process doesn't compute.

You must admit that it is within zebra's repertoire though, yes?

I'm not sure whether win conditions are dead or alive here. That could impact her behavior, for sure.

I sacrificed myself in Arrested Development, and other games, but I was much more willing to do so in those instances because of dead-or-alive win conditions, so yeah, that impacts my theory's viability.

I'm suggesting the Jester role as a distinctly independent possibility; I think, if there is any mechanic at play here compelling her behavior, it's that one. Otherwise, in the absence of anything compelling, my other theory comes in.

They traded a few posts discussing possible motives for Zebra's Day 1 behavior. This reads to me like MP just taking advantage of an opportunity to make a post without needing to ruffle feathers. It's possible niju set that up intentionally, since this kind of discussion is nice for post count inflation. That's quite speculative though, and I don't feel inclined to read that much into it.

Green in MP's first second rainbow.

Spoiler: show

Who hasn't yet voted and is currently around?

Me!

For whom are you considering a vote?

Not zebra or Matt. Strongly leaning Eloh because her posts and responses have been inconsistent at best, and disingenuous at worst (especially regarding "not knowing" how Wilgy acted in Spirited Away, thinking Wilgy was cursed, focusing on Matt's weirdness but no one else's, etc. I don't buy it). However, I really really REALLY also want to vote a super low-poster. So many baddies hide on Days 1, and I'm itching to find someone doing so to encourage more speaking and less hiding (and really, less of the "you're acting weird; let's lynch YOU!" attitude that occurs so much early on). Problem is, quietness would be the only thing I'd have to go off of, and a crapshoot isn't what I want either. Conundrum, alas.

And yourself?

LOL @ Linki - Seems Wilgy's on my level. Dunno what to think of that :P

I could lynch Elo. I thought she seemed town early on due to her activity, but she's thrown out some questionable behavior and I absolutely despite her vote today. She seems to be the one most likely of my Slight Mafia reads currently being proposed at the moment as a viable counterwagon to zebra.

The two discuss the merits of voting Elohcin on Day 1.

Light green in the Night 2 rainbow.

Spoiler: show

RIP Matt.

Man this poll sucks! I am town and I'm glad some people believe me on that front. If there ever are any concerns I can alleviate let me know.

With regards to Nero and nijuu, my gut says to vote Nero but I still need to do some investigation; I've been a bit busier than expected, but I'll be properly catching up and post digging sometime later today I think.

MP's voting options on Day 3 were limited to Nero and niju. Here he half-endorses a Nero lynch over a niju lynch with the qualification that he wants to review further.

Dark green in the Day 3 rainbow.

MP attempts at length to talk to niju and I in response to our more recent suspicions.

I think this reads like MP is trying earnestly to explain himself to us both, as in he feels a real need to change our minds and that he has to work for it. That necessity wouldn't exist in a team mate relationship. Nice look for niju.

~~~

Things nijuukyugou said to/about MovingPictures07:

Spoiler: show

All right, I am here and caught. Right off the bat, I feel good about overly-enthusiastic MP. Seems like typical civ behavior from him. I also doubt Drumbeats would have proposed the voteswap if he were bad, so my voting choices are already narrowing down. Come on, other people, give me some more to work with.

LOL, I always see enthusiastic MP as the opposite. The red baddie lights go off when he's asking questions like this, but then again, I'm always inclined to keep an eye on the slippery sock. No actual ping except my gut, which is not enough to go off of at this point, so don't take that comment as such. Yet. I'd like to actually participate better in this game than I have in the last few games, and I believe I'm off to a good start.

This Day 1 commentary on MP is a bit of a waffle.

Spoiler: show

Niju is getting my vote. MP, check my post in response to yours.

You have no explanation for this. Explain, please.

And it was probably a night action that provoked this poll change, so even if we lynch the wrong guy(me) then we can examine Squid and MP closer since one of them is guaranteed to be bad.

Not necessarily. I'm still of the mind that this is random annoying night action shenanigans. Or Epi shenanigans. Or both.

I don´t think that we are all civ. Spending a whole day without the opportunity to lynch a baddie is not good design imo. Epignosis knows this.

Epi does what he wants to amuse himself. This amuses him. He once had a night poll in which people were asked if they had "enough courage," and everyone who voted "yes" was put on the poll the next day, and everyone who didn't was left off. All who voted were civilian, if I recall correctly. This man has no soul

Voted Niju. She seems worse to me than MPm, although had it not been for this poll I would read her as civ. Oh well.

I just beat Sybil in the game It is an amazing soundtrack.

I appreciate the vote of confidence, but I also don't appreciate the vote. Why am I worse than MP? Is it the tentacles?

I think I want to see MP as bad, because he tricks me (especially when he puts me at the top of his lists. But for good reason ), but I'm reading him as good this game. The point about his silencing and the mafia role power that reacts to targeting makes this argument stronger. And his explanation of changing his thoughts about Eloh rang true - I also saw her frustration with mafia in general as genuine at first, but then grew mightily suspicious when she kept going after Matt, etc. etc. (I've been over this, not gonna rehash).

Nero, alas, your avoidance of voting for Eloh in the last lynch makes you look worse out of the two of you. Voting Nero.

Also rather waffly.

Spoiler: show

As a warning, starting tomorrow afternoon and through Tuesday, my participation will likely drop significantly, as I will have a visitor for the weekend I'll do my best to keep up, but I won't be giving the same attention I've been doing so far.

With that being said, I'll try to get some good thoughts in tonight before trivia. First, a response:

(snipped for relevance)
nijuukyugou's vote was seventh. Similarly she didn't have much to say about Nero prior to Day 3 and her vote was placed as a process of elimination selection. If there's anything to talk about here it's probably this from Night 1:

Well, that result was unsurprising It was a shitty lynch, for sure, but it's, alas, a typical Day 1. I'm inclined to agree with Nero, MP - you're taking it quite hard. Unusually so. Perhaps because there's been a string of it lately? (Again, thinking Futurama and now this.) I see it as both lazy civilian play and baddie bandwagon, but at least it'll give us something to look at with those votes? Perhaps I'm also just in a really good mood and more inclined to look at the bright side today

I'm gonna vote Cell, because I wanna know more about it. It's creeping me out, lurking about like it is.

I can't tell whether it was niju's intent to cast suspicion upon MP for the perceived "taking it hard" regarding MP's severe reactions to the Zebra wagon or merely to observe that the reactions existed. It's relevant to this because it represented a MP/Nero dynamic occuring prior to their appearing as nijuu's only poll options on Day 3, when she selected Nero. niju, can you return to this moment and clarify what you intended to convey about MP if anything?

It was an observation in the direction of trying to sniff out if MP was being bad, but not a hard read or anything like that. A sort of bookmark to return to if necessary, if that makes sense. Speaking of MP, he said there wasn't much in that last lynch to observe, and that his reads haven't changed. Looking back upon the reasons for many of those reads, I'd like more elaboration. I'm particularly interested in why nutella is simply a "slight" mafia read, versus Mac/Illyria, who he calls a "moderate" mafia read (and really, now that I think about it, those terms are hella wishy-washy). He has a decent amount to say about nutella, but barely mentions Illyria/Mac, except to say that he's suspicious and that he's garnering suspicion from others. I suppose you could call that observation another bookmark, but MP's posts since the last lynch have garnered my attention in a negative way. His behavior throughout this game keeps making me flip-flop on my read of him, but this is a check in the negative corner without his further elaboration.

*snip*

niju's perspective of MP begins to sour at this point on Day 4. She cite's MP's treatment of nutella and compares it to his treatment Maclyria, suggesting an inconsistency. I do think MP's treatment of nutella was the most suspicious thing in his content so this mindset resonates well with me.

Spoiler: show

Checking in on phone (celebrating my brother's birthday; don't want to miss the vote, but I'd like to give proper attention to my guest and family). For what I've been able to pay attention to for the last couple of days, I'm gonna vote MP. When I flip-flop on him, he's almost always bad, and his going after nutella yet reluctance to vote her way from said suspicion looks like a baddie knowing to avoid a lynch. I know that's not an awesome, eloquent explanation for my vote, but phone typing sucks and party calls. I'll address other stuff when I'm able to be more attentive.

Day 5 vote for MP (the day in which Operator was lynched).

Large Day 6 post including a vote for MP.

This was the second of five MP votes, and put him in a tie with me in the tally. I like that.

~~~

Overall I like it more than I don't like it. The early waffles by niju aren't my favorite thing, but I don't see anything more conclusive to raise against her.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Seriously guys, let's not be dumb here. Based on the number of votes we know Process to currently possess and the 5/2/1 ratio we know to currently exist, we HAVE to lynch an element today.

If we were to misfire and hit town, we would be down to 4/2/1, which ordinarily isn't bad, but when the 1 at the end is guaranteed at least 3 additional votes through elements, it effectively becomes 4/2/4. If after that the mafia kills one of us instead of an element it would drop down to 3/2/4, EVERY TOWN AND MAFIA PLAYER WOULD HAVE TO VOTE THE SAME WAY IN ORDER TO STOP THE PROCESS. And that is assuming that the Process does not have any more latent vote power through elements we've yet to see.

Basically, if we mislynch a townie, today is auto lose for both the town and the mafia. If we lynch the mafia, we will be in relatively good shape, but would need to take out elements following that to stay alive. If we lynch the Process then we will likely be at MILO the next day due to mafia killing a civ. If we lynch an element, then we prevent autolose by Process votes, scum can't really target us tonight if they want a shot at winning because they're low enough in number at this point to not stand a chance against process alone. We NEED to back and forth lynch/shoot elements before acting elsewhere or it is very likely we will lose.

I would agree that lynching an element would be the safest move. The potential number of element votes in play is too substantial (especially with numerous elements still unresearched), and if they're all coordinated under one banner then the difficulty of evading that problem is significant.

Still plenty of time to hash out as much as possible before voting is necessary though.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Things MovingPictures said to/about thellama73:

Spoiler: show

All right, I am here and caught. Right off the bat, I feel good about overly-enthusiastic MP. Seems like typical civ behavior from him. I also doubt Drumbeats would have proposed the voteswap if he were bad, so my voting choices are already narrowing down. Come on, other people, give me some more to work with.

First off, you're right about me, so

Second, regarding the underlined/bolded, does your opinion of this change with the reveal that DrumBeats was being sarcastic (and tagged it with /s to indicate such)?

Chummy, idle prodding.

Spoiler: show

MP Rainbow List #1

Slight Town:
AllAlongtheBoardwalk
DrumBeats
Elohcin

Null:
a2thezebra
agleaminranks
DFaraday
DrWilgy
Illyria
JaggedJimmyJay
Matt
Nerolunar
nijuukyugou
reywaS
sig
thellama73

Slight Mafia:
nutella

*snip*

I'm OK with Illyria, nijuu, Nero, and Llama's content so far, but it's not enough to make me feel any way about their alignments just yet. I need more.

*snip*

Null pile in the first rainbow list, included among the names given positive but noncommittal commentary.

Spoiler: show

nutella, why do you have an intent to consider a vote for Elohcin and DrumBeats? What are the nefarious intentions in DrumBeats's plan, as currently elaborated?

DrumBeats, I would like to hear some other thoughts out of you; you say you aren't against scumhunting but almost all of your posts have been about your proposal. Anything else?

Does anyone have any read or opinion on zebra or Matt shooting off their votes immediately, other than it being strange?

I guess I'll work on a rainbow list now that I'm caught up, but I still feel like the discussion has been mostly fruitless with respect to anything alignment-indicative or hunting-worthy so far. Hopefully we can change that before the deadline.

The "voting for each other" thing is reminiscent of the craziness of Biblical mafia, when two of the roles were cursed to vote each other until they were dead. I think it's too early for that sort of mechanic, perhaps, but you did ask for thoughts, and this game is pretty...secret

Regarding zebra, I was thinking about the behavior today. I wonder if she has a role where she has to act confused? Like, all the time? In a very obvious manner, like this one? It is definitely out of character/playstyle for her to be acting like this, but she's also being consistently confused about things that are not confusing, which gives me much pause. Is there a character or mechanic in the actual game that might explain the behavior? Someone also mentioned that the Process could be behind it already (can't remember who), which is something to consider. Part of me is not wanting to ignore weird behavior, but more of me says that blatantly weird behavior on Days 1 is not something mafia does - lying low is their best bet early on.

That's a possibility, but I think it's very slim. I'm not sure why Epi would design such a role in his game, especially since he knows how often weird behavior attracts lynch attention.

What perhaps is more likely, IMO anyway, is a "Jester" role, which is a role for which zebra has to get herself lynched to win. Like Sidoh in Death Note and Tofu Boy in Super Meat Boy?

However, I think the most likely explanation for this behavior is that zebra was willing to most likely sacrifice herself to be the Day 1 lynch to further the townie cause by getting people talking and exposing mafia behavior. It's the kind of gambit I can see her doing, even if it's historically something that Llama would do in games way back when. I don't think she's forced. She seems to be going out of her way to seem unhelpful; if she was forced or compelled to act this way, I would think she would make more effort to try and communicate and assist the town. She ignored all questions directed at her.

Rather arbitrary mention of llama in a discussion about Zebra.

Null pile in the second rainbow list

Spoiler: show

ok, sorry I have not been here, just caught up but it is kinda a blur. RIP zebra and sig.

MP, your reasons for suspecting me seem to be mostly the fact that I found Elo and Drum suspicious and that my "relatively strong diction" or whatever. Idk man I was just expressing my reaction to their posts and found them suspicious. After Drum explained what he meant a bit more clearly I don't really suspect him as much, but I've been finding Elo to be more suspicious and it looks like she was sort of evasive yesterday so I will be looking at her today. I haven't gotten particular pings from anyone else but I'm interested in hearing more from Illy, Nero, and Llama.

When you get the chance, I'm intrigued to hear more detail about why you inevitably went with Nero over Elo (and Illy and Llama).

Prods nutella to expand on her decision to vote for Nero over Eloh, including Illy and llama as a parenthetical afterthought.

Orange read in the Night 2 rainbow list.

Orange again on Day 3.

Spoiler: show

I know I haven't been great at participating in a while or at addressing my accusers. I have like a half an hour max now, then unfortunately I need to leave to teach and won't be home until after the deadline, so I'll try to do what I can.

With respect to my lynch vote, I don't want to lynch JJJ. I don't really have any reason to believe that he's bad, and Llama and Mac pushing the easy button on it over and over again with practically no attempt to convince anyone else doesn't do anything for me.

Criticizes llama and Mac for their treatment of me.

This is all limited in scope, which isn't surprising since llama's post history is limited in scope. I think it's team-mate compatible from this direction but not necessarily indicative.

~~~

Things thellama73 said to/about MovingPictures07:

Spoiler: show

All right, I am here and caught. Right off the bat, I feel good about overly-enthusiastic MP. Seems like typical civ behavior from him. I also doubt Drumbeats would have proposed the voteswap if he were bad, so my voting choices are already narrowing down. Come on, other people, give me some more to work with.

llama was supportive of MP early in the game for his enthusiastic play. I don't like this for a reason I'll expand on shortly.

Spoiler: show

I just want to say I love the MP thinks I'm "slight mafia". Shows I still have my edge.

Okay.

Spoiler: show

I still feel good about Wilgy and McDougall. I still feel bad about JJJ. He is a discussion steerer. MP is probably okay.

Sorry for not being more active, lads. Been busy with other things.

Returning to the point I alluded to before:

llama has spent essentially the entire game accusing me of being bad, for reasons such as "he tries too hard" or "he is a discussion steerer". He did not voice any concerns with MP though (indeed, he was positive in his assessment of MP), the player who exploded out of the gate, lead the thread in posts by a ton, and definitely steered discussion in a readily visible manner.

Why is it okay when MP plays hard and steers the thread, but it's not okay when I do it?

This kind of high-effort play is something that both MP and I exhibit in nearly every damned game we play regardless of alignment. llama has played enough games with me to this point to be well aware of my style just like he has an understanding of MP's style. That he gave MP a pass and has treated me in the opposite manner strikes me as b/s.

That's all he said about MP prior to his demise. On Day 6 when MP was lynched, he placed the second vote on me.

~~~

I think llama is a good candidate to be a team mate of MP.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The idea I had to hunt for the Process is based in the night polls. We know given our research that some of the elements are stronger than others, and there might be something interesting to be found in that data regarding when each was revealed and by whom. I'll start digging into that now.

[Ned Flanders]

Seriously guys, let's not be dumb here. Based on the number of votes we know Process to currently possess and the 5/2/1 ratio we know to currently exist, we HAVE to lynch an element today.

If we were to misfire and hit town, we would be down to 4/2/1, which ordinarily isn't bad, but when the 1 at the end is guaranteed at least 3 additional votes through elements, it effectively becomes 4/2/4. If after that the mafia kills one of us instead of an element it would drop down to 3/2/4, EVERY TOWN AND MAFIA PLAYER WOULD HAVE TO VOTE THE SAME WAY IN ORDER TO STOP THE PROCESS. And that is assuming that the Process does not have any more latent vote power through elements we've yet to see.

Basically, if we mislynch a townie, today is auto lose for both the town and the mafia. If we lynch the mafia, we will be in relatively good shape, but would need to take out elements following that to stay alive. If we lynch the Process then we will likely be at MILO the next day due to mafia killing a civ. If we lynch an element, then we prevent autolose by Process votes, scum can't really target us tonight if they want a shot at winning because they're low enough in number at this point to not stand a chance against process alone. We NEED to back and forth lynch/shoot elements before acting elsewhere or it is very likely we will lose.

I just counted and only about one-third of your posts consist of you looking for mafia. A majority of your posts focus on Process hunting instead. Even some of the posts I counted as "scum hunting", for the majority of some of those posts you were discussing the Process.

Really I hate to be that cliche sock puppet who comes at you but why aren't you interested in finding the Camerata?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

All of the night phase polls

KEY:
Each entry is formatted like this: Element grade symbol [?, X, +, or ++] - number of votes - name of element (voters with numeral indicating which nth vote it was that night)
? = Unidentified process element
X = Process element which has little to no mechanical function
+ = Process element with one beneficial mechanical function
++ = Process element with multiple beneficial mechanical functions

These "grades" are rather subjective, so judge for yourself if you disagree with those I've given. How I graded them:

Cell = X (vote is worth 0)
Badcell = + (vote is worth 1)
Creep = ++ (vote is worth 1, can do so privately)
Jerk = ?
Young Lady = X (ability is purely communicative, no voting power)
Weed = + (vote is worth -1, presumably a protective function)
Cheerleader = + (element protection but vote is worth 0)
Snapshot = ++ (role check and vote is worth 1)
Fetch = ?
Clucker = ?
Man = ?
Operator = ?

Players in green are deceased townies. Players in red are deceased baddies. Cyan is for deceased Process elements.

The purpose of this is to try to discern whether any specific players can be isolated as Process candidates based upon their voting behavior in these "research the Process" polls of the night phases. This exercise acts upon the assumption that the abilities of these elements are all known to whichever player is the Process, and that he/she has a special interest in maintaining them. Some of these elements are stronger than others, and I think it's fair to infer that in this scenario, the Process would want to prevent the better elements from being revealed too soon. That makes them more vulnerable as lynch or night kill targets.

Night 0 poll:

X - 2 - Cell (DrumBeats 10, nutella 19)
+ - 1 - Badcell (Matt 18)
++ - 1 - Creep (Elohcin 5)
? - 1 - Jerk (MovingPictures07 3)
X - 1 - Young Lady (thellama73 15)
+ - 2 - Weed (DrWilgy 2, agleaminranks 9)
+ - 2 - Cheerleader (nijuukyugou 17, Illyria/MacDougall 20)
++ - 2 - Snapshot (DFaraday 16, AllAlongTheBoardwalk/Scotty 21)
? - 1 - Fetch (Nerolunar 14)
? - 1 - Clucker (JaggedJimmyJay 7)
? - 1 - Man (a2thezebra 12)
? - 1 - Operator (sig 6)

The first night poll of the game featured a widely spread vote. This might be of interest, and I think there's already a noteworthy point to be made: DFaraday placed a vote on Snapshot which gave it a chance of catching up with the others at 2 votes. Revealing Snapshot on Night 0 would be significant because it's probably the strongest element we've seen. I think that's a good look for DFaraday. If there are negative points here, they'd probably go to DrumBeats and thellama73 for the opposite reason -- contributing to "wagons" of weaker elements.

Night 1 poll:

X - 5 - Cell (AllAlongTheBoardwalk/Scotty 3, DrumBeats 6, Illyria/MacDougall 13, JaggedJimmyJay 14, nijuukyugou 15)
? - 1 - Jerk (MovingPictures07 2)
X - 2 - Young Lady (thellama 4, sig 8)
+ - 2 - Weed (Nerolunar 11, agleaminranks 16)
? - 1 - Clucker (DFaraday 7)
? - 1 - Man (Elohcin 12)
? - 1 - Operator (Matt 9)

There's not much to be said about this one. Cell is a weaker element and it was elected by a wide margin. Young Lady (also weak) was in a distant second. agleam's Weed vote is decent, but it came too late to matter.

Night 2 poll:

+ - 1 - Badcell (Matt 11)
++ - 1 - Creep (kneel4justice 13)
? - 1 - Jerk (MovingPictures07 4)
X - 2 - Young Lady (DrumBeats 2, thellama73 15)
+ - 4 - Weed (Nerolunar 6, DrWilgy 12, nijuukyugou 14, JaggedJimmyJay 16)
++ - 1 - Snapshot (nutella 5)
? - 1 - Operator (DFaraday 9)

Similar to Night 0. I think Weed is definitely a stronger element than Young Lady. Nice look for nijuu, less so for DB and llama. Decent also for K4J who put Creep in relative contention before Weed took off.

Night 3 poll:

+ - 1 - Badcell (nijuukyugou 15)
++ - 2 - Creep (Illyria/MacDougall 7, AllAlongTheBoardwalk/Scotty 14)
? - 1 - Jerk (MovingPictures07 5)
X - 1 - Young Lady (JaggedJimmyJay 11)
? - 1 - Clucker (nutella 6)
? - 1 - Man (thellama73 10)
? - 1 - Operator (reywaS/kneel4justice 12)

Nice look for Mac, opening the door for Creep to be revealed.

Night 4 poll:

X - 8 - Young Lady (JaggedJimmyJay 6, DFaraday 7, MovingPictures07 8, AllAlongTheBoardwalk/Scotty 9, Young Lady 10, reywaS/kneel4justice 11, nijuukyugou 12, Snapshot 13)
? - 2 - Man (thellama73 3, agleaminranks 4)

Hard to derive much from a landslide for a weak element.

Night 5 poll:

++ - 7 - Snapshot (DrumBeats 2, JaggedJimmyJay 3, MovingPictures07 6, reywaS/kneel4justice 8, Illyria/MacDougall 9, nijuukyugou 10, agleaminranks 11)
? - 1 - Operator (AllAlongTheBoardwalk/Scotty 5)

Same, but at least this element is the strongest one we've seen. Nice vote for DB. Eventually the wagon took off so the later votes are less valuable.

Night 6 poll:

+ - 4 - Badcell (AllAlongTheBoardwalk/Scotty 4, MacDougall 8, nijuukyugou 12, thellama73 13)
? - 1 - Jerk (Luna)
? - 2 - Fetch (DrumBeats 9, JaggedJimmyJay 11)
? - 1 - Clucker (DFaraday 3)
? - 1 - Man (Man 14)
? - 3 - Operator (reywaS/kneel4justice 6, agleaminranks 10, Cell 16)

The winning element is the only one we've identified (obviously, it's the most recent poll), so it's hard to say. Badcell is a decent element though, so it could be another good look for Mac.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

IF the premise of this analysis is valid, then I think DFaraday and MacDougall emerge looking well. llama probably looks the worst. DrumBeats had some iffy ones, but I really don't think he's the Process given his visible hatred for it all game long. Things might become clearer as new elements are researched, though to do that we'll probably need to lynch them (hopefully with baddie night kill aid) or there may not be enough phases left for research.

Just looking at this post confuses me, so if you don't understand it just ask.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm so tired. I'll resume this nonsense tomorrow.

Spoiler: show

[thellama73]

Party at my place, losers. Unlikely to be around when the vote ends, so I might as well go ahead now.

JJJ

[Phoebe Buffay]

Seriously guys, let's not be dumb here. Based on the number of votes we know Process to currently possess and the 5/2/1 ratio we know to currently exist, we HAVE to lynch an element today.

If we were to misfire and hit town, we would be down to 4/2/1, which ordinarily isn't bad, but when the 1 at the end is guaranteed at least 3 additional votes through elements, it effectively becomes 4/2/4. If after that the mafia kills one of us instead of an element it would drop down to 3/2/4, EVERY TOWN AND MAFIA PLAYER WOULD HAVE TO VOTE THE SAME WAY IN ORDER TO STOP THE PROCESS. And that is assuming that the Process does not have any more latent vote power through elements we've yet to see.

Basically, if we mislynch a townie, today is auto lose for both the town and the mafia. If we lynch the mafia, we will be in relatively good shape, but would need to take out elements following that to stay alive. If we lynch the Process then we will likely be at MILO the next day due to mafia killing a civ. If we lynch an element, then we prevent autolose by Process votes, scum can't really target us tonight if they want a shot at winning because they're low enough in number at this point to not stand a chance against process alone. We NEED to back and forth lynch/shoot elements before acting elsewhere or it is very likely we will lose.

I just counted and only about one-third of your posts consist of you looking for mafia. A majority of your posts focus on Process hunting instead. Even some of the posts I counted as "scum hunting", for the majority of some of those posts you were discussing the Process.

Really I hate to be that cliche sock puppet who comes at you but why aren't you interested in finding the Camerata?

Man, u seem like a playful felow. Since Mac doesnt wanna, do u wanna go 2 pr0m with meeee?

[Phoebe Buffay]

JJ the jet plane is making all kinds of long posts but u know wat they say about boys that overc0mpensate w/ long posts.....teeheehee

L8r. I got to go to practice. #squadgoals

[thellama73]

JJ the jet plane is making all kinds of long posts but u know wat they say about boys that overc0mpensate w/ long posts.....teeheehee

L8r. I got to go to practice. #squadgoals

Burn.

[agleaminranks]

Argh. If JJJ is a baddy, he is playing one hell of a good civ game. That level of analysis is stupendous.

I'm actually surprised at the result of his analysis with me. Frankly, if I were outside looking in, I would be hella suspicious of myself. I misplaced faith in two people who flipped bad when I doubted them originally. That would just look like bad attempts at distancing, and I haven't participated in a successful baddy lynch yet.
I know I'm good, but if I didn't have that insight, I would think I were bad. Which, if I had to have a suspicion of JJJ, would be the only one I could make: it would be that if he were bad, he would know I wasn't, and could use that to his advantage if I were lynched. But I want to believe JJJ is good just by how useful his analyses have been as a whole. It just seems highly unlikely to me that someone would be willing to go to those levels if they were lying through their teeth.

I'm a little inclined to agree with his analysis at the end here. llama has been tunneling JJJ since Night 2, apart from the one vote on the nutella train. Mac has agreed with llama in a couple of posts and done somehow even less to support his votes. I don't like either of the two.

I'm voting Mac.

[Phoebe Buffay]

Argh. If JJJ is a baddy, he is playing one hell of a good civ game. That level of analysis is stupendous.

I'm actually surprised at the result of his analysis with me. Frankly, if I were outside looking in, I would be hella suspicious of myself. I misplaced faith in two people who flipped bad when I doubted them originally. That would just look like bad attempts at distancing, and I haven't participated in a successful baddy lynch yet.
I know I'm good, but if I didn't have that insight, I would think I were bad. Which, if I had to have a suspicion of JJJ, would be the only one I could make: it would be that if he were bad, he would know I wasn't, and could use that to his advantage if I were lynched. But I want to believe JJJ is good just by how useful his analyses have been as a whole. It just seems highly unlikely to me that someone would be willing to go to those levels if they were lying through their teeth.

I'm a little inclined to agree with his analysis at the end here. llama has been tunneling JJJ since Night 2, apart from the one vote on the nutella train. Mac has agreed with llama in a couple of posts and done somehow even less to support his votes. I don't like either of the two.

I'm voting Mac.

i used pink bc pink is pretty!

I high lites this bc like if I were a baddie id wanna win, so id play as thoroughly as I could haha. MovingPictures played pretty hard in the first fewww days

[kneel4justice]

Looking back through Llama's posts...I think Llama could be the process.

Llama originally expressed interest in partaking in DrumBeat's plan (here) and then further expressed that it would be a good idea to lynch a process element to see what happens (here).
Following the mafia's killing of a process element, Llama voted for JJJ without any discussion of following DrumBeat's plan (here). Granted Llama was busy during away at a convention during this particular phase. I was originally pinged by this, but looking back I find it even more bothersome - since Llama actually expressed interest in DrumBeat's proposal.
It's starting to look like Llama wanted to appear ready to work against the process but when the actual time came, he wasn't willing to do so. Strikes me as someone who didn't want to lose their elements and thought since the elements are so mysterious and that there was no concrete information on what needed to be done with the elements, they could get away with it.
Llama has voted for JJJ, yet again...during the midst of a conversation that has centered around why it is important to lynch an element this particular day phase to avoid the process from getting too much power as far as voting ratios go.

Now, I think strategically, it would still be best to go ahead with lynching an element, in the event that this is wrong. But I do think once we get the ratio to an acceptable amount (which, someone might have to help with that math lol) Llama is a good candidate for the process.
If I am wrong about Llama being the process, I do think there is a chance that he is mafia. Looking back I did not see any comments on Eloh's behavior during her time of being alive. He also had good reads on MP and never changed those. Which looks bad at face value, now I think it would be stupid for him to avoid suspecting both of them, but not impossible.

[kneel4justice]

Argh. If JJJ is a baddy, he is playing one hell of a good civ game. That level of analysis is stupendous.

I'm actually surprised at the result of his analysis with me. Frankly, if I were outside looking in, I would be hella suspicious of myself. I misplaced faith in two people who flipped bad when I doubted them originally. That would just look like bad attempts at distancing, and I haven't participated in a successful baddy lynch yet.
I know I'm good, but if I didn't have that insight, I would think I were bad. Which, if I had to have a suspicion of JJJ, would be the only one I could make: it would be that if he were bad, he would know I wasn't, and could use that to his advantage if I were lynched. But I want to believe JJJ is good just by how useful his analyses have been as a whole. It just seems highly unlikely to me that someone would be willing to go to those levels if they were lying through their teeth.

I'm a little inclined to agree with his analysis at the end here. llama has been tunneling JJJ since Night 2, apart from the one vote on the nutella train. Mac has agreed with llama in a couple of posts and done somehow even less to support his votes. I don't like either of the two.

I'm voting Mac.

And you have ignored the discussion of the importance of voting process elements as well, so what is up with that? You seem to have avoided voting for the elements, just as Llama has.
Following the mafia's kill of a process element, you voted for me and said you'd explain further later. Your explanation can be found here. You say it was to gauge reactions, which is fine. But you also explain that you weren't sure of voting for a process element so you voted for me - even though you did not think I would be lynched. Those two things kind of cancel each other out IMO.
It comes out looking like you just didn't want to vote for a process element.....and if you don't have a real suspicion of anyone, why not vote an element? I'm not quite following your train of thought. I will say the fact that you outright said you didn't know how to feel about voting for an element makes it feel more genuine as opposed to avoiding it with bad intentions.
But now you are repeating and it makes me uneasy.......saying you're voting for Mac, while it is being discussed how dangerous the process elements are. I don't understand how people are ignoring this.

[kneel4justice]

Nice post on the night polls, JJJ.
I think I've read it correctly. I tried to look at Gleam's votes to see if there is anything suspicious in those. I don't think there is much positive, but nothing overly negative either, I guess. What do you think about Gleam's votes in particular, as an overall indicator of the likelihood of potentially being the process?

[kneel4justice]

Where is everyone? I'm voting for Creep.

[dodo]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Nice post on the night polls, JJJ.
I think I've read it correctly. I tried to look at Gleam's votes to see if there is anything suspicious in those. I don't think there is much positive, but nothing overly negative either, I guess. What do you think about Gleam's votes in particular, as an overall indicator of the likelihood of potentially being the process?

I think one positive about gleam's votes is that all of them were either for strong elements or unknown elements. I'd have liked to see him at least discuss the merits of voting an element today though before using his vote though.

[DrumBeats]

Gleam I am leaning towards being mafia, but not Process. I'm leaning towards Jay or Llama being Process.

People, we need to vote Creep out. A vote for Creep is a vote for us not being forced to lose the game due to too much Process.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think Creep is the best choice today too.

People who haven't voted yet: please discuss the prospect of voting for an element before you make your decision. I get the impression some people aren't even paying attention to this problem.

[Jack Shephard]

Woof! Woof!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Luna, it appears you can quote stuff. If I list the players/elements, could you multi-quote it and give me some grrrs and pants to indicate bad and good reads?

agleaminranks

Cell

Creep

Cheerleader

DFaraday

DrumBeats

JaggedJimmyJay

kneel4justice

MacDougall

Man

nijuukyugou

thellama73

[nijuukyugou]

Whew, busy past few days of traveling. I drove and interviewed and landed myself a job in my dream area, huzzah!!! I'm currently out at a bar but didn't want to forget the vote. I'm down with Creep. Or rather, down with bringing Creep down.

[2 Stupid Dogs]

Oh... Darling JJJ... I don't want to vote you but you may force my hand...

And... Dont forget to Sautee the baby... The rust makes it taste better too...

If it helps... A lynch on me... Is 100% percent not going to kill the process... I think the process hides within one of the players who were here from the beginning...

How Long... Has darling luna been here... ? An egg would do just nicely with them...

In regards to the data... I think the thought process you are following is inaccurate... and I see a reflection in this in the death of Snapshot... Snapshot was killed while there was an active... Element who can save others... Based on my position... And that event... I don't think any elements are actually aligned together... If they are aligned together... It's as individual units, against the process... I think those who are killing us is only making the process stronger... Perhaps...

Perhaps my own theory plays... Too much into this... I think its... Frightening that DrumBeats didn't comment on my theory... The catch is... Would a process that needed to hunt us... Be so blatant about the captains orders... ?

The process may win next phase if we don't find... The correct player... If my theory is correct... Then I will... Watch you sleep...

Perhaps your read on players is backwards JJJ... The beings I find scary are those you say... Look attractive...
DF, Gleam, Niju, K4J, Mac... I don't think the process wishes to maintain us... I think the process wants to end us...

JJJ... You voted for a + and a ++ based upon your scoring chart... Would you say... That you look the best based on your... Original premise... ?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

JJJ... You voted for a + and a ++ based upon your scoring chart... Would you say... That you look the best based on your... Original premise... ?

I think the task of judging my votes is best left to anyone else. I had some nice votes. I may have screwed the pooch on Night 4 by starting the weaker research wagon on Young Lady. Anyway, I'm not the Process. Judge for yourselves.

[2 Stupid Dogs]

JJJ... You voted for a + and a ++ based upon your scoring chart... Would you say... That you look the best based on your... Original premise... ?

I think the task of judging my votes is best left to anyone else. I had some nice votes. I may have screwed the pooch on Night 4 by starting the weaker research wagon on Young Lady. Anyway, I'm not the Process. Judge for yourselves.

This... Rubs me the wrong way... Though... Im supposed to be doing the rubbing...

...

The vote is 4-1 right now... Since... I cannot be here... I will part with this... Don't make it so easy for the process to win... That would make the captain angry... I will... Probably... Vote for the boiled baby JJJ...

[JaggedJimmyJay]

"Judge your own voting behavior" is a loaded prompt.

[2 Stupid Dogs]

"Judge your own voting behavior" is a loaded prompt.

Contraire... It's a dance into the questioned player's head
... I'd like to be in your... Head...

If... If I was confident that you weren't the process... And... You stated that it was a good... Look... It would help... Reassure...

Perhaps the reason why it rubs me... Wrong... Is because you didn't look at the otherside of the coin... The premise that I suggested would mean... You are more likely... To bea the process... Not acknowledging that... Or attempting to delve into... Where my thoughts were going... Is what rubbed me wrong...

[JaggedJimmyJay]

"Judge your own voting behavior" is a loaded prompt.

Contraire... It's a dance into the questioned player's head
... I'd like to be in your... Head...

If... If I was confident that you weren't the process... And... You stated that it was a good... Look... It would help... Reassure...

Perhaps the reason why it rubs me... Wrong... Is because you didn't look at the otherside of the coin... The premise that I suggested would mean... You are more likely... To bea the process... Not acknowledging that... Or attempting to delve into... Where my thoughts were going... Is what rubbed me wrong...

I'm not going to spend any time pondering the potential that I might be the Process since I'm not the Process. That has no place in my mindset, it's illogical. I don't really see evidence in this game that what you assert is true -- that killing Process elements strengthens the Process alignment. In fact I think that would render this a bastard game for the following reasons:

1. There's no way for a civilian to know that; at least I don't have any way to know that.

2. The win condition says that civilians must destroy the Process, and elements listed under the Process in the OP are available to be lynched in the tally. If then it is disadvantageous to actually lynch those elements, then the civilians have been literally hoodwinked by the host from the start. I don't think that happened.

3. If we have to destroy the Process, and taking action to destroy its elements is the opposite of that (strengthening the Process instead of weakening it), then how are we supposed to deal with it? We didn't even see the update about it being lynchable/not killable until later in the game. This would be a bastardization.

[Epignosis]

Find the Camerata or The Process.

Poll ended at Sat Jun 04, 2016 9:51 pm

agleaminranks
0
No votes

Cell
0
No votes

Creep
4
DrumBeats (3), kneel4justice (9), JaggedJimmyJay (11), nijuukyugou (13)
31%

Cheerleader
0
No votes

DFaraday
0
No votes

DrumBeats
0
No votes

JaggedJimmyJay
3
Cheerleader (2), thellama73 (8), Cell (10)
23%

kneel4justice
0
No votes

Luna
0
No votes

MacDougall
0
No votes

Man
1
Luna (12)
8%

nijuukyugou
0
No votes

thellama73
0
No votes

Fairview (The Host, the Non, the Dead)
5
Epignosis (1), juliets (4), Scotty (5), sig (6), leetic (7)
38%


Total votes : 13

[Epignosis]

Day 7 Ends: Apex Beat

I hate Creeps.

Creep has been lynched.

It is now Night 7. You have 23 hours to submit your PMs and vote.

[MacDougall]

I actually have no idea what is happening in this game. Other than Jimmy being a baddie.

[DrumBeats]

Voting Fetch.

[DrumBeats]

Mafia, if you don't want to lose, you should shoot an element. If you shoot a civ tonight then the minumum voting spread would be 4/2/3 (Process + Badcell + Weed). That's not too bad, but then we have the maximum, which would be if Man, Fetch, Luna, and clucker have votes. That would put us at 4/2/7 and it would be autolose for everyone but Process. Autolose would still occur if only three of them had votes, putting us at 4/2/6.

[Phoebe Buffay]

Mafia, if you don't want to lose, you should shoot an element. If you shoot a civ tonight then the minumum voting spread would be 4/2/3 (Process + Badcell + Weed). That's not too bad, but then we have the maximum, which would be if Man, Fetch, Luna, and clucker have votes. That would put us at 4/2/7 and it would be autolose for everyone but Process. Autolose would still occur if only three of them had votes, putting us at 4/2/6.

Real moment for a sec, like, for real. Killing us is not to ur advNtage. Ur adding badcell and weed and Luna but whos to say their evn on our side. Badcell is commaradillo for sure. So uve got yourself in a pickle, town. DB may have single handedly given the win to the baddies with his proposishuns

[Phoebe Buffay]

Rivers run red with the blood of my dynasty. I love blood. I love red. The red face of frustrated anger 4 the slain youths.
save the cheerleader, save the world. #lol