Transistor [ENDGAME]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'd especially like to know what people think of my recently stated suspicion of niju. I think there might be more to this than tinfoil.

[DFaraday]

Those are good points about Ninja, though it's entirely possible for DB to be MP's teammate. I could definitely see MP taking a gamble like that. However, I also think it's more likely that Ninja is the Process than that DB is, so mathematically I find her more suspect. Honestly I've not examined K4J much at all, I just get a civvie vibe from him. I will review his posts later and see where I rank him.

[nijuukyugou]

The fact that I am still alive in this game makes me think there's a high probability that I have been pocketed by a town read who is thus trying to take advantage of me and anticipates support in my voting behavior down the stretch. With that in mind I am returning to the three I've been town reading the most: DrumBeats, nijuukyugou, and DFaraday, to discern where I may have gone wrong. Indeed, it's impossible for all three of them to be town with a 3:2:1 ratio. It is possible that none of them are Camerata. If one of them has pocketed me though, that would imply a Camerata alignment rather than a Process alignment, because the killing power has lied with the former. So for now, that's where my investigation is focused.

When I look back to each of the three as I have previously analyzed them, this still stands out to me the most:

Spoiler: show

Zebra has been posting nonsense that indicates nothing

It indicates that Zebra is playing in an unhelpful manner to the town, at least.

*votes Zebra*

So we're just going to policy lynch her and not discuss anything else?

I thought I brought meaningful content to the discussion regarding nutella, and literally NO ONE has commented on it, or anything else I've said about zebra. Why does it seem like no one gives a shit whether zebra is town or not?

This is nonsense.

And no, I don't think Wilgy is being very helpful either, but he does this regardless of alignment. I don't recall Zebra ever behaving this way.

So because you interpret this behavior to be within zebra's meta, but Wilgy's is in within meta, then zebra's behavior being "weird" makes her worthy of your vote? How is that logical at all?

Weird DOES NOT EQUAL suspicious. Can anyone actually explain to me the mafia motivation behind zebra's actions?

MP voiced exaggerated displeasure at the Zebra wagon and DF was the target of that in a couple cases. Given that this was a white-knighting job by MP in defense of Zebra, this might be a nice look for DFaraday -- he'd be taking the brunt of the blame for the wagon that could be blamed on numerous people.

Slight mafia read in the second rainbow list.

Spoiler: show

Most of you zebra voters have some explaining to do. Please respond to my concerns at your convenience.

Zebra was acting weird. That was pretty much the extent of my thought process.

I'd like to lynch DFaraday.

MP definitely blamed DF for what happened to Zebra. Good look.

MP was highly vocal about how bad he felt the Zebra wagon was, and I think it's pretty clear that it was his desire to scapegoat at least a portion of that wagon (particularly given that he voted for his team mate on Day 1 instead of Zebra). Nobody felt MP's treatment of this more harshly than DFaraday, and indeed he promoted the lynch of DF entering a phase that saw MP's team mate lynched instead. I think this is a really solid look for DF, perhaps the single strongest interactive point in the game for anyone IMO.

I don't think it's likely MP and DF are team mates with this in mind.

~~~

When it comes to DrumBeats, I find myself returning to this:

Spoiler: show

MP Rainbow List #1

Slight Town:
AllAlongtheBoardwalk
DrumBeats
Elohcin

Null:
a2thezebra
agleaminranks
DFaraday
DrWilgy
Illyria
JaggedJimmyJay
Matt
Nerolunar
nijuukyugou
reywaS
sig
thellama73

Slight Mafia:
nutella

Currently players are NOT ranked within groups by order of suspicion; rather, they are alphabetical.

Too many nulls. Please post more, nulls! So far, reywaS hasn't posted at all, and DFaraday and sig haven't posted yet during Day 1. Did I miss anyone else? Hope to hear from them soon.

I'm town reading AATB due to his contribution to the discussion last night when I pressured him, though I want more. I wasn't sure what to make of DrumBeats but having caught up now I'm seeing his attempts to engage people with this plan as genuinely town-minded, but it's still a slight lean. Elohcin is active and I'm enjoying it; I also am reading her attempts to engage others so far as genuine, and her frustrations displayed a townie mindset. All minor, but they're all worth town reads nonetheless. I think forming town reads, even very slight at this stage, is just as important as identifying mafia leans, perhaps even more so. So I intend on trying to sort through these as the day progresses and hopefully form some more. Please help me out with that, folks! Show me your townie spark.

*snip*

One of three green reads in the first rainbow list, alongside MP's team mate Elohcin. I find myself doubting that MP would put half his team in a pile of just three greens when the null pile is so huge. The highlighted cyan portion shows MP attempting to explain that green slot, and it's tentative like he doesn't want to give the controversial DB too much credit. Nice looks.

Spoiler: show

All six of zebra's voters, with perhaps the exception of DrumBeats: You're suspicious, regardless of zebra's alignment.

DB was the only person MP didn't berate among the voters in the Zebra wagon.

These two points make it such that associating DrumBeats with MP requires a significant swallowing of WIFOM. On Day 1 in MP's first rainbow, he gave us three "green" reads, one of which was Elohcin (confirmed team mate) and another was DrumBeats, alongside AATB/Scotty (confirmed non-team mate). Most baddies would not be inclined to put two team mates in their town reads when the number of town reads is so small. When I ask myself: "Would MovingPictures07 be willing to do that?", my answer is "It's possible, but only if he felt both team mates had been clearly pro-town in the thread and were generally trusted".

When it comes to DB, this is perhaps a contentious point. I wasn't especially suspicious of him on Day 1 and I think a number of people weren't, but he was still somewhat controversial because of his anti-Process elements proposal for town/mafia coordination. I would ask the thread at large: If you were a baddie on Day 1 and DB was your team mate, would you be comfortable calling him one of just three town reads given the proposal he put forth? I'm not sure I would be.

Moreover, the second post in that quote there makes it look like MP wanted people to associate him with DrumBeats. I am less confident about this than I am about DFaraday, but I do still lean towards a non-team mate relationship.

~~~

niju'ukyugou's strongest defense is in her votes, as she herself has recently assessed. In this late-game scenario I am less willing to trust a voting record to clear a player though, because baddies know who one another are. They have an easier time assembling a pristine voting record than townies do, who are struggling to solve the game. Her votes for baddies were as follows:

1. 2nd vote for Elohcin on Day 1
2. 4th vote for Elohcin on Day 2
3. 2nd vote for MP on Day 5
4. 2nd vote for MP on Day 6

1. This is a vote I have appreciated for much of the game. The Zebra wagon had taken off to the 6-vote total and had a commanding lead. With time limited in Day 1, the Elohcin wagon was created and grew rapidly to the point of closing within one vote of Zebra's. MP himself took part in this counterwagon, voting 3rd of 5. We know for a fact that this counterwagon had at least some Camerata participation, and I think it can be looked at in a different light with that in mind.

The wagon came close to tying Zebra's, but it still fell short. Given the time remaining and the players present to place a vote before the deadline, it was probably always a longshot for that wagon to meet the necessary target of 6 votes to tie Zebra's. This means to me that MP was gambling within this counterwagon -- promoting a wagon of his team mate, while the wagon he so loudly criticized (Zebra's) was still the most likely to net the Day's lynch. I think it's plausible that nijuukyugou (2nd vote of 5) was a part of the same strategy: to make it look like Elohcin was a potential lynch when it was never terribly likely that it'd resolve that way.

2. niju's vote was the 4th of 5 for Elohcin when she was lynched on Day 2. At the time of this vote, the only viable counterwagon was for Young Lady (sitting at 2 compared to Elohcin's 3). I would call this vote bus-compatible, but it doesn't have to be that.

3. niju's MP vote on Day 5 (2nd of 2, alongside Operator) came while Operator (the eventual lynch) was at 2 votes. This in a vacuum is a decent look, but I also think it's important to state that an element lynch looked like a strong possibility at this point and the baddies likely knew that as well as anyone else.

4. Strongest of niju's votes, I think. This one put MP in a tie with me, and enabled me to push MP beyond towards the gallows.

I also find myself returning to these:

Things nijuukyugou said to/about MovingPictures07:

Spoiler: show

All right, I am here and caught. Right off the bat, I feel good about overly-enthusiastic MP. Seems like typical civ behavior from him. I also doubt Drumbeats would have proposed the voteswap if he were bad, so my voting choices are already narrowing down. Come on, other people, give me some more to work with.

LOL, I always see enthusiastic MP as the opposite. The red baddie lights go off when he's asking questions like this, but then again, I'm always inclined to keep an eye on the slippery sock. No actual ping except my gut, which is not enough to go off of at this point, so don't take that comment as such. Yet. I'd like to actually participate better in this game than I have in the last few games, and I believe I'm off to a good start.

This Day 1 commentary on MP is a bit of a waffle.

Spoiler: show

Niju is getting my vote. MP, check my post in response to yours.

You have no explanation for this. Explain, please.

And it was probably a night action that provoked this poll change, so even if we lynch the wrong guy(me) then we can examine Squid and MP closer since one of them is guaranteed to be bad.

Not necessarily. I'm still of the mind that this is random annoying night action shenanigans. Or Epi shenanigans. Or both.

I don´t think that we are all civ. Spending a whole day without the opportunity to lynch a baddie is not good design imo. Epignosis knows this.

Epi does what he wants to amuse himself. This amuses him. He once had a night poll in which people were asked if they had "enough courage," and everyone who voted "yes" was put on the poll the next day, and everyone who didn't was left off. All who voted were civilian, if I recall correctly. This man has no soul

Voted Niju. She seems worse to me than MPm, although had it not been for this poll I would read her as civ. Oh well.

I just beat Sybil in the game It is an amazing soundtrack.

I appreciate the vote of confidence, but I also don't appreciate the vote. Why am I worse than MP? Is it the tentacles?

I think I want to see MP as bad, because he tricks me (especially when he puts me at the top of his lists. But for good reason ), but I'm reading him as good this game. The point about his silencing and the mafia role power that reacts to targeting makes this argument stronger. And his explanation of changing his thoughts about Eloh rang true - I also saw her frustration with mafia in general as genuine at first, but then grew mightily suspicious when she kept going after Matt, etc. etc. (I've been over this, not gonna rehash).

Nero, alas, your avoidance of voting for Eloh in the last lynch makes you look worse out of the two of you. Voting Nero.

Also rather waffly.

The second one especially is giving me the heebie-jeebies right now. "I think I want to see MP as bad" is yikes at face value, and the roundabout method of arriving at a town lean looks a little manufactured.

Of these three, I think nijuukyugou is the most likely to have been a baddie behind the curtain. I actually suspect her considerably more now, and I want to hear everyone's thoughts on this.

And those last comments regarding me feel like you've just been waiting to use the "waffly" against me. Nice try. I don't buy it.

Are you serious, JJJ? You're going to tell me that, after that little bit of "analysis" above, that out of those three candidates that you least suspect, that I'm the most suspicious? That my changing my opinion of MP, yet voting for him, twice (and the second time in the clincher) is more suspicious than DFaraday's in-and-out, poor voting record? That it's more suspicious of me to change my mind on MP, to vote out two mafia members, consistently, at crucial times, than DrumBeats' avoidance of the Eloh lynch, than his first vote on the second MP train, which could much more have easily been a bus than a consistent second vote on the second train, for the second time?

I also find it hard to believe that you'd put it past MP to associate himself with two teammates in a rainbow list, or throw teammates under the bus, or really, do anything regarding his teammates. You've played with MP enough times, I believe, to know that that dude will do anything, pull just about any gambit, to win. For god's sake, he came out against Eloh from the get-go AND voted for her in the first counter-wagon that may have won HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR DRUMBEATS' FINAL VOTE. I understand the tinfoiling, sir, but what I don't buy is the tinfoiling of my behavior over theirs, unless you're trying for the least likely candidate. Either you're deluding yourself, tinfoiling yourself into a hole, or I've been deluded by you this whole game, and that llama kill last night was WIFOM madness.

With llama gone I also lose my top Process suspect. If I return to my voting analysis, I'm essentially left with process of elimination (no pun intended) to determine who else should be considered. I thought DFaraday and Mac both looked good in this regard, and I still don't think DrumBeats is likely to be the Process. He's been quite focused on destroying its elements, and I think there's more reason than ever now to agree with his stance that the elements are pro-Process regardless of perceived balance. Man's role reveal is highly suggestive of this reality, IMO.

That leaves me with niju and K4J as likely Process candidates. A little later I'll look around their posts for behavioral clues to see what may augment or oppose the night phase voting records.

As for this post, I agree that DrumBeats is a very unlikely candidate for the Process, given his enthusiasm for lynching elements. I don't understand, however, why I and k4j are more likely than DFaraday and Mac (or you, for that matter). I assume you're going mostly off of night poll data for this? Your "good looks" for DFaraday and Mac regarding night polls are equal with mine (and I assume how you view yours, which is pretty similar), and comments beyond that are "could bes" that you weren't confident about then, but seem to be now in this assessment. As far as day poll data and behavior, DFaraday and Mac have it down for weird votes (Mac's are as almost as weird/off as llama's) and popping in and out under the radar (mostly DFaraday), while you, k4j, and I are equally likely with our votes against mafia.

Long story short, I am not mafia. I am not Process. I have hella enjoyed finally having time and energy to play a civ game and baddie/indy hunt. Your tinfoiling me without having good reason to do so (especially given that others appear worse than me, even in your own analysis, even at this point in the game) other than to tinfoil is going to cost you a valuable civ. I advise against it.

As for my own reads, DrumBeats looks like the most likely mafia candidate, for vote record. As No-U'y as it may sound, JJJ is making my tentacles twitch with these recent "analyses," because I know he is better capable of sorting out the facts (e.g., skipping DB's Eloh avoidance versus my "waffly" behavior towards MP as suspicious is not something I'd expect him to do), but his vote record and behavior before this point don't make me suspect as hard (will I be called "waffly" again for that? :P). k4j is unlikely mafia, given vote record and behavior. Actually, as I type out "reads," they're pretty much the same as my vote analysis short reads. And so, the late game paranoia sets in.

I need to step back and think on this.

[DrumBeats]

If I were mafia an element would've been shot last night, and much sooner than they were in the game. That simple

[Phoebe Buffay]

If I were mafia an element would've been shot last night, and much sooner than they were in the game. That simple

HahHahhahahahah haha

Cud some1 explain what WIFOM is? Is this that? This looks lik that

[MacDougall]

Man this game is dead.

Whenenver y'all show up, I ask that you please do not place your votes until we've been able to have a discussion. It's a crucial phase obviously and we need to work together. If time is tight, then make your concerns heard tonight so they can be addressed well before tomorrow's deadline.

Look.

I have played almost all this game on my phone at red lights. I left my job and started a new one during this game, that I started as a late replacement. You know better than to carry me through as your major scum read based on how I have played because it should be obvious to you that I have been not entirely present. I don't believe that you have been genuine in your reads of me as nothing I have done has amounted to worthy of suspicion, hence why I've not been lynched. Even those who know me better haven't got enough suspicion of me to start a wagon rolling.

You killed Llama last night because you know if Llama and me remain around at crucial end game stage we're going to vote you out, and you came out today and changed your fake reads to try to shake me off my suspicion of you so you can finish the job and kill me tonight.

Asking me to reply to that randomly selected comment. There is nothing in that comment I can reply to. You called my day 6 "abysmal". There was nothing more or less abysmal about my day 6 than any other day. You were trying to provoke me and my failure to act on that provocation is the only reason you asked me to reply to it. I will not reply to it because I cannot. There is nothing in there that provokes discussion, only aggression and I won't fall into your game.

[kneel4justice]

Now my suspicion of Llama was wrong? Jeez. I really don't know what to think right now. We were doing so well at first. I'm at a loss of what to think ATM.

K4J, I would like a response to this specific point; I feel it's the worst look for you in your MP interactions:

Spoiler: show

Checking in on phone (celebrating my brother's birthday; don't want to miss the vote, but I'd like to give proper attention to my guest and family). For what I've been able to pay attention to for the last couple of days, I'm gonna vote MP. When I flip-flop on him, he's almost always bad, and his going after nutella yet reluctance to vote her way from said suspicion looks like a baddie knowing to avoid a lynch. I know that's not an awesome, eloquent explanation for my vote, but phone typing sucks and party calls. I'll address other stuff when I'm able to be more attentive.

I would like to hear from MP about this Nutella change. To me it seems foolish for him to go throughout the course of the game suspecting and then change opinions when Nutella were going to be lynched, because the damage is already done. It would be a poor decision if scum. But I can't expect everyone to act how I would if I were scum in their position. I've been holding the mindset that MP would be trying harder if he were scum and that the silencing was real because I didn't see him as the type to cop out if he were mafia, but perhaps I've been too blinded by these expectations of him.

As the thread climate worsened for MP, particularly as people were asking questions about his treatment of nutella, K4J took part with this post. The highlighted portion is a little suspicious at face value to me -- I've seen baddies qualify a fallen read on a team mate in similar ways.

I said what I said about MP because it was true. MP is one of the few players on this site that I know more than the others (because he played on my home site quite a few times). His style relates far more to mine than many others from this site - he appreciates the game very heavily, dives in immediately and posts an enormous amount. I expected more from him if he were bad - it would appear he did indeed fake his silencing and he doesn't strike me as the type of player to do that. I expected him to play differently. That's really all I can say about it.

[kneel4justice]

I'm trying to follow JJJ's suspicion of Niju, but I'm not quite understanding how Niju's voting for mafia members suggests that she is a mafia member herself? Obviously teammates vote for each-other, but looking at Niju's votes, those would have been rather excessive and unnecessary, IMO. I'm not seeing anything suspicious there and I am trying to keep an open-mind about everyone at this point. The posts from Niju as a whole have not stuck me as suspicious - I especially liked the voting analysis effort and found it rather helpful.

The only thing that has relatively bothered me about Niju is the disapproval of DrumBeat's action against the process elements. Because as I have stated before, it makes perfect sense from a logical standpoint to get rid of the elements IF the mafia and civs are both doing so. Because the mafia/civ ratio continues to stay the same while the process only loses its power; which helps boost its ratio since there are quite a few voting powers (unless I have something majorly mathematically mistaken?). So perhaps Niju, if you could address this - and explain if I am missing something in your thought process here?

Now originally, I was thinking DrumBeat's action against the process was a good sign in terms of him not being the process, as well as not being the mafia (because I didn't think a mafia would suggest that proposal; as it would be risky) but as the numbers dwindle down, I am starting to wonder if this is what he anticipated on people thinking. So, I am trying to consider all possibilities here. I do get a bit thrown off everytime he claims that if he were mafia - the elements would have been targeted sooner and consistently, because things are not that simple. That is an independent mindset; on a team you have to consider everyone's input, so I don't really count that as much of a valid defense.

[kneel4justice]

Those are good points about Ninja, though it's entirely possible for DB to be MP's teammate. I could definitely see MP taking a gamble like that. However, I also think it's more likely that Ninja is the Process than that DB is, so mathematically I find her more suspect. Honestly I've not examined K4J much at all, I just get a civvie vibe from him. I will review his posts later and see where I rank him.

What in particular do you find to be a good point against Niju? Because I am not understanding/seeing the case for Niju as mafia.

[kneel4justice]

Man this game is dead.

Whenenver y'all show up, I ask that you please do not place your votes until we've been able to have a discussion. It's a crucial phase obviously and we need to work together. If time is tight, then make your concerns heard tonight so they can be addressed well before tomorrow's deadline.

Look.

I have played almost all this game on my phone at red lights. I left my job and started a new one during this game, that I started as a late replacement. You know better than to carry me through as your major scum read based on how I have played because it should be obvious to you that I have been not entirely present. I don't believe that you have been genuine in your reads of me as nothing I have done has amounted to worthy of suspicion, hence why I've not been lynched. Even those who know me better haven't got enough suspicion of me to start a wagon rolling.

You killed Llama last night because you know if Llama and me remain around at crucial end game stage we're going to vote you out, and you came out today and changed your fake reads to try to shake me off my suspicion of you so you can finish the job and kill me tonight.

Asking me to reply to that randomly selected comment. There is nothing in that comment I can reply to. You called my day 6 "abysmal". There was nothing more or less abysmal about my day 6 than any other day. You were trying to provoke me and my failure to act on that provocation is the only reason you asked me to reply to it. I will not reply to it because I cannot. There is nothing in there that provokes discussion, only aggression and I won't fall into your game.

This is the first post I have seen from Mac that actually makes me feel somewhat good about him (which actually kind of sucks because I'd like to have some stability in my suspicions rather than being completely lost lol). Still have concerns, obviously because one post out of the whole time he's been playing is not enough. But, I can kind of get what he's saying here. I'll be interested in hearing what JJJ has to say.
Regarding my thoughts on JJJ at the moment...I'm undecided. I find it hard to consider that he's actually mafia, when considering his voting record combined with the amount of effort that he's put into scum-hunting. I also think that the night-voting analysis makes him an unlikely candidate for the process. If he's a baddie of some sort, he's very impressive, I'll give him that. I don't quite know what to make of the Llama kill; I think that is a toss up in terms of what it means about JJJ's alignment.

[kneel4justice]

Man this game is dead.

Whenenver y'all show up, I ask that you please do not place your votes until we've been able to have a discussion. It's a crucial phase obviously and we need to work together. If time is tight, then make your concerns heard tonight so they can be addressed well before tomorrow's deadline.

Look.

I have played almost all this game on my phone at red lights. I left my job and started a new one during this game, that I started as a late replacement. You know better than to carry me through as your major scum read based on how I have played because it should be obvious to you that I have been not entirely present. I don't believe that you have been genuine in your reads of me as nothing I have done has amounted to worthy of suspicion, hence why I've not been lynched. Even those who know me better haven't got enough suspicion of me to start a wagon rolling.

You killed Llama last night because you know if Llama and me remain around at crucial end game stage we're going to vote you out, and you came out today and changed your fake reads to try to shake me off my suspicion of you so you can finish the job and kill me tonight.

Asking me to reply to that randomly selected comment. There is nothing in that comment I can reply to. You called my day 6 "abysmal". There was nothing more or less abysmal about my day 6 than any other day. You were trying to provoke me and my failure to act on that provocation is the only reason you asked me to reply to it. I will not reply to it because I cannot. There is nothing in there that provokes discussion, only aggression and I won't fall into your game.

I would like to add though, that the underlined portion - is kind of a problem for me. A great lay low tactic for scum to use IMO. If you don't do anything - you can't really get caught. The fact you've kind of acknowledged that benefit of your absence is questionable for me.

DFaraday
Day 1: zebra (3)
Day 2: misses vote
Day 3: Nero (4)
Day 4: nutella (2)
Day 5: Operator (5)
Day 6: misses vote
Day 7: misses vote

Never votes mafia, votes once for element. Misses three votes. Could be a candidate for inactive mafia if they missed their kill completely last night. Pretty unengaged regardless.

DrumBeats
Day 1: zebra (6)
Day 2: nutella (single)
Day 3: Nero (6)
Day 4: nutella (9)
Day 5: Operator (1)
Day 6: MP (1)
Day 7: Creep (1)

Votes for one mafia member (MP) and is first to do so. Looks decent. Two votes for Process elements. Avoids Eloh lynch both times (seals zebra’s lynch over Eloh Day 1). Not such a good look. Very doubtful Process, given his enthusiasm for lynching elements, but possible mafia given the Eloh avoidance.

Looking back at the voting records, trying to figure all of this out.

DF's voting record is obviously poor. While it makes me wonder if I have misplaced trust in him, I still cannot say that his actual posts have struck me as suspicious? I'll try and review his posts, but yeah.

Then there is DrumBeats. I hadn't realized that his vote was actually the determining vote in the Zebra lynch (wasn't in the game at the time). That does strike me as suspicious. With the MP vote, that does look good - but perhaps he saw where things were going and decided to throw it in to make up for his lack of votes against Eloh. I could see that making sense. The more I think about it, the "I would have killed process elements" as his only defense is bothering me.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Look.

I have played almost all this game on my phone at red lights. I left my job and started a new one during this game, that I started as a late replacement. You know better than to carry me through as your major scum read based on how I have played because it should be obvious to you that I have been not entirely present. I don't believe that you have been genuine in your reads of me as nothing I have done has amounted to worthy of suspicion, hence why I've not been lynched. Even those who know me better haven't got enough suspicion of me to start a wagon rolling.

I have no idea what's going on in your personal life. I only know what you've posted in this game thread, and what your predecessor posted. You've ignored every meaningful point I've made about you (and you've acted like Illyria never existed), and you've reduced my suspicion of you to "he's only saying I'm bad because I'm not trying very hard". This is a categorical discredit of me. You've given me absolutely nothing in response to assertions I've made about the interactions of your player slot with the confirmed dead baddies. I didn't even say anything negative about your effort until late in the game when you were literally trying to lynch me without giving me any chance of holding a discussion with you. You showed no interest in working out my alignment, you just threw down your "stance" in a vacuum in a late game scenario in which every lynch decision can have severe consequences.

You killed Llama last night because you know if Llama and me remain around at crucial end game stage we're going to vote you out, and you came out today and changed your fake reads to try to shake me off my suspicion of you so you can finish the job and kill me tonight.

This is just an extremely specific assertion and it doesn't line up with what's happened in this thread. I've explored my reads on other people (of course I've done that on Day 9 with a LyLo-esque numbers ratio), but why is that supposed to "shake you off your suspicion"? I still suspect you. You've responded to my suspicion of you with this kind of shit all game long, why would I anticipate any change in that today? That's you're assigning this arbitrary strategy to me without it being indicated by anything in this thread suggests to me that you created it in your own head, and that you're the one pushing an agenda.

I mean this makes no sense. You're telling me that I killed the person who wanted to lynch me all game long and then tried to change your mind about me after you've coat-tailed his suspicion so much? That's akin to punching a little kid in the face right in front of his father and then inviting the father to go for a brisk morning jog.

Asking me to reply to that randomly selected comment. There is nothing in that comment I can reply to. You called my day 6 "abysmal". There was nothing more or less abysmal about my day 6 than any other day. You were trying to provoke me and my failure to act on that provocation is the only reason you asked me to reply to it. I will not reply to it because I cannot. There is nothing in there that provokes discussion, only aggression and I won't fall into your game.

This is exactly the problem, Mac.

You've correctly described what I did, at least in part: I was trying to provoke you. That's a hallmark of my town game. You know that better than anyone. I provoke people because provocation yields emotion, and emotional content is where reads are affected. That you avoided my request because you knew it was provocative suggests that you didn't want to be provoked -- there's no reason to fear that if you have nothing to hide. This is textbook baddie behavior. "Oh, I know what you're up to, you tricky townie. I won't fall into your trap."

[JaggedJimmyJay]

And those last comments regarding me feel like you've just been waiting to use the "waffly" against me. Nice try. I don't buy it.

I mentioned the "waffly" posts a while ago. This is nothing new.

Are you serious, JJJ? You're going to tell me that, after that little bit of "analysis" above, that out of those three candidates that you least suspect, that I'm the most suspicious? That my changing my opinion of MP, yet voting for him, twice (and the second time in the clincher) is more suspicious than DFaraday's in-and-out, poor voting record? That it's more suspicious of me to change my mind on MP, to vote out two mafia members, consistently, at crucial times, than DrumBeats' avoidance of the Eloh lynch, than his first vote on the second MP train, which could much more have easily been a bus than a consistent second vote on the second train, for the second time?

Yes, especially if you're intent to feed yourself credit for those votes. This late in the game, a sterling voting record isn't worth as much IMO. Townies make mistakes, townies are wrong about things. I'm not going to suspect DFaraday the most just because of his voting record, and I'm not going to trust you the most just because of yours. Everything is nuanced. I found a specific reason in DFaraday's interactions with MP to think he's an unlikely team mate -- MP scapegoated him harder than anyone for the Zebra wagon of Day 1. Do you disagree that this is a meaningful thing? I made similar observations about DrumBeats, though I found them less conclusive.

There's a potential baddie angle to be seen in a sterling voting record, and it's absolutely necessary that you be forced to talk about it -- we're in the final stages of this game. If you're bad, we have no chance to win unless we put some pressure on you and make you talk; you've been enjoying a pretty breezy game prior to this point.

I also find it hard to believe that you'd put it past MP to associate himself with two teammates in a rainbow list, or throw teammates under the bus, or really, do anything regarding his teammates. You've played with MP enough times, I believe, to know that that dude will do anything, pull just about any gambit, to win. For god's sake, he came out against Eloh from the get-go AND voted for her in the first counter-wagon that may have won HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR DRUMBEATS' FINAL VOTE. I understand the tinfoiling, sir, but what I don't buy is the tinfoiling of my behavior over theirs, unless you're trying for the least likely candidate. Either you're deluding yourself, tinfoiling yourself into a hole, or I've been deluded by you this whole game, and that llama kill last night was WIFOM madness.

I actually haven't played with a baddie MP many times. This is only the third time I can remember, and the first time he was modkilled for inactivity (RYM game #70). I think he's capable of doing a lot of things, but that doesn't mean he did them all in this game. That's kind of what we're challenged with, yes? We have to look at everything he said and did and make a judgment call. I think his scapegoating behavior of DFaraday, particularly at a stage of the game when Elohcin was already a high-probability lynch, is a telling thing. He's capable of placing two team mates among the three town reads in his rainbow reads, but I think it's less likely than the notion that he didn't. I'm not really interested in what he's "capable" of, because that spectrum is too broad. I'm interested in what I think is most likely to have happened given the context of the game thread.

Long story short, I am not mafia. I am not Process. I have hella enjoyed finally having time and energy to play a civ game and baddie/indy hunt. Your tinfoiling me without having good reason to do so (especially given that others appear worse than me, even in your own analysis, even at this point in the game) other than to tinfoil is going to cost you a valuable civ. I advise against it.

You're telling me that you don't buy my suspicion of you, and you're also telling me that I'm tinfoiling you. Which is it?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I said what I said about MP because it was true. MP is one of the few players on this site that I know more than the others (because he played on my home site quite a few times). His style relates far more to mine than many others from this site - he appreciates the game very heavily, dives in immediately and posts an enormous amount. I expected more from him if he were bad - it would appear he did indeed fake his silencing and he doesn't strike me as the type of player to do that. I expected him to play differently. That's really all I can say about it.

What brings you to the conclusion that MP faked his silencing?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm trying to follow JJJ's suspicion of Niju, but I'm not quite understanding how Niju's voting for mafia members suggests that she is a mafia member herself? Obviously teammates vote for each-other, but looking at Niju's votes, those would have been rather excessive and unnecessary, IMO. I'm not seeing anything suspicious there and I am trying to keep an open-mind about everyone at this point. The posts from Niju as a whole have not stuck me as suspicious - I especially liked the voting analysis effort and found it rather helpful.

It's not that simple a case, that she has made good votes and good votes are bad. I've tried to illustrate that a case can exist for niju and that I think it might be more compelling than those for DrumBeats or DFaraday, and I've individually addressed each of her votes for baddies and described the potential baddie angle. The one that I think is most difficult to resolve against her is her vote during the MP lynch, when she tied him with me in the tally and made it possible for me to preserve myself and get MP lynched. It's a complex issue, and there's also a little process of elimination among the players I have been town reading the most. I don't think any of niju's votes look as strong as DFaraday being the focus of MP's Zebra wagon scapegoating, for example. The matter of DrumBeats is less conclusive, since it's WIFOM to wonder how MP might treat his team mates in his rainbow lists. There's gut at work there too: I think DrumBeats looks more like a townie at face value than perhaps any other player.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Those are good points about Ninja, though it's entirely possible for DB to be MP's teammate. I could definitely see MP taking a gamble like that. However, I also think it's more likely that Ninja is the Process than that DB is, so mathematically I find her more suspect. Honestly I've not examined K4J much at all, I just get a civvie vibe from him. I will review his posts later and see where I rank him.

Do you suspect niju to be the Process in general, or just place her ahead of DB on the Process priority ladder?

[kneel4justice]

I said what I said about MP because it was true. MP is one of the few players on this site that I know more than the others (because he played on my home site quite a few times). His style relates far more to mine than many others from this site - he appreciates the game very heavily, dives in immediately and posts an enormous amount. I expected more from him if he were bad - it would appear he did indeed fake his silencing and he doesn't strike me as the type of player to do that. I expected him to play differently. That's really all I can say about it.

What brings you to the conclusion that MP faked his silencing?

As a mafia role has been revealed to have been related to silencing, and MP himself were mafia makes me consider it more likely that that is where the silencing came from and that it was done on purpose by him in order to make it look like his D1 activeness was a threat to the mafia. In general, since MP was bad, though possible, I am more inclined to distrust that he was silenced by something other than mafia.

[MacDougall]

I have made 1 post in this game when I had time to sit there and think. I am trying to contribute as best I can.

I didn't say you knew my personal experience nor did what I say infer you had to. Defensive for no reason.

Drawing a ridiculous analogy like your jogging thing. If a guy comes after you when bad, sometimes it is pertinent to kill them. Like when you are reaching end game and need to get rid of them. You have two players on you all game. You have to start killing them. So you kill one and you distance the other and hope they stay absent and non contributory like I have been. You kill Llama then you come out with fresh cases. It is a solid plan and makes perfect sense. For you to try to argue that the action would not be rational is a huge tell.

Also my scum read came before his iirc.

And your argument that me not being provoked by your apparently town tactic is a scumtell actually flies in the face of your own point for having done that you scumtard.

[DrumBeats]

I've actually got time to post on vacation now since I got up early, I'll try to use that time wisely.

Some quick thoughts on K4Js ISO:

Spoiler: show

Okay, so a lot of the things that I have opinions on transpired from or are related to that of Zebra. I understand that the vote for Matt and the mix-up on when the day ended was 'odd', but do I think it warranted any real suspicion? No. That being said, I am suspicious of people who tried to place Zebra in a negative light. I do not have much experience with Zebra but from my previous experience, I know this is a player who is very good at the game and I did not understand how people thought Zebra would be so obvious as mafia - so I think there was definitely some mafia pushing for this. Obviously not everyone can be.

Right off the bat throws suspicion on people for a day one mislynch. And the one mafia member other than Eloh that we know of was not on this lynch.

One of the players who was suspicious of Zebra and in doing so caught my eye was DrumBeats. DrumBeats main reason for suspecting was due to the supposed slip when asking why "we" should trust Drumbeats in regards to the whole working with the mafia plan. I read that "we" as the town (and I read the counter-argument against that being that there would be no need to trust Drumbeats, but still felt it was very nit-picky to find "we" as a slip). I give Zebra was more credit than that. To think that that was a slip, I just cannot see it.
With that being said - there is one thing from DrumBeats that makes me hesitate and say this could be a town aligned player. I think the whole proposal to working with the mafia (while I don't agree with it) it would be something that would be sure to bring a lot of attention; something I am not sure a mafia would risk asking for.

All reasonable conclusions imo.

Another player that had struck me odd with in joining the Zebra suspicion was DFaraday. Because as he said himself, the extent of the suspicion was because Zebra was acting "weird". Again, I find this problematic because, why would a mafia member have been acting this way? So obviously weird?
I think what makes matters worse was that this (correct me if I am wrong) came AFTER Matt had suggested the idea that Zebra had been somehow affected by the cheerleader poll option, which made perfect sense to explain Zebra's actions, yet that was nearly completely ignored. I am slightly confused on Matt - I really liked that he brought this up and tried to steer the lynch away from Zebra. There was just one comment, where he said that Zebra could have either been the Process or controlled by the Process. I did not follow the logic. Why would Epi create a game mechanic that forces a role who is a threat to both the mafia and civilians to post in a way that essentially exposes them? So that made me pause and think wait - maybe he just sees where the lynch is heading and kind of wants to clear himself in advance. Esp since his vote was already placed there. IDK I am very much up in the air about this, could go either way.

Reasonable thoughts

Now aside from Zebra, the other lynch candidate seemed to have been Eloh. First, I think the push for Zebra could have been to avoid an Eloh lynch, but then again it is possible both were civvies. However, I do think that Eloh has been acting suspiciously. The first problem I had was Eloh's suspicion of DrumBeats' comment about finding a loophole for self voting. It strikes me as a contradiction, because you have Eloh saying that her modding experience has showed her how unhelpful civvies can be and how they should put more effort into scum-hunting (which, I agree with BTW!). But it was kind of like she was recognizing that civvies are unfortunately unhelpful and do not act or say things that have the best interest of the town in them - but then, here she is suspecting someone for the loophole comment. It's contradicting, IMO. I've struggled with wanting to comment on players unhelpful styles before even though I don't necessarily see them as bad, so I get that but I do think this was a contradiction. Also there was mentioning of thinking Wilgy was cursed (I did not see that particular post? So if someone could direct me to that, that would be great) but she ignored the idea of Zebra being affected, which IMO was much more believable. Esp since Wilgy is kinda..crazy, already (and I mean that in a good way lol).

Believes that the lynch was pushed to save Eloh from being lynched, but factually there weren't votes on Eloh by the time Zebras votes finished. K4J seems to be acting on the knowledge that Eloh is mafia between this and the first paragraph.

Not quite sure what to make of that Eloh/DrumBeats interaction though. Since I suspect both of them, the idea that Eloh would suspect DB for something right off the bat seems kind of unlikely. But I did notice DB trusted Eloh which I did not quite understand. So not sure what to make of their interaction in terms of if both/one/none are mafia.

Reasonable

Another thing that pinged me, but it isn't huge, just something I noticed was Illyria's post explaining that they didn't have a desk job, I get the need to inform players on that. That part was fine, but it was the added part saying I post a lot of OT and emoticons that made me wonder - wait, why are you explaining the way you play? Is it so down the road if people notice you aren't posting meat, you can kind of say - well I told you that is just the way I am. Now that is minor, and I don't recall much after that but it was something I had wondered about

Minor thing but the reasoning here doesn't make sense to me.

I think that is all that I really was suspicious of. Some players who I am not used to playing with so their username does not really register with me faded in the background. I felt good about MP. I know he is capable of posting a lot when he is mafia but from what I could tell he is genuinely scum-hunting. I think for the most part I don't have solid opinions on anyone else yet, more so neutral.

A town read on only MP, that is also complete with a slight bit of distancing with the meta comment.

I'm going to post things separately because I'm on mobile and multiquoting is a pain in the ass

[DrumBeats]

I'm out right now. Going to vote Eloh because she hasn't done anything to settle my initial suspicions.

Voted Eloh only when the other votes were already there. Despite strong suspicions of Eloh before K4J did not really do any pushing on her this phase. Instead K4J focussed posts on Nero on Day too, which could have been trying to set up the day 3 mislynch or make it happen in place of Eloh.

[DrumBeats]

I went though everything MP said about Elo leading up to her almost lynch and her actual lynch and have a very strong suspicion that he is bad because of it. On the surface he looks town for trying to start that CFD before EoD but I don't buy it and actually think he's trying to look town instead of being town.

Are these votes changeable?

im in a show right now so I will not be around to respond with expediency

I don't recall anything suspicious about his interaction with Eloh. I just remember he was one of those willing to vote for her over Zebra in D1 which had gave me a good feeling. I'll have to go back and see this.

Quickly defends the MP-Eloh interaction.

Just looked back briefly at MP's posts on Eloh (thanks to JJJ for making that easier). Not quite sure why MP was getting a town-read on Eloh in the first place, as in I would have disagreed with that, but I can't say the particular point in which he became suspicious of Eloh was all that unreasonable or bothersome. I'd like to see some clarification from MP on why exactly he felt good on Eloh and if I missed that -- my apologies, it is 1 in the morning here, lol.

Then sees the reasoning and doesn't offer a full opinion but instead pushes the question to MP.

MP's explanation of his thought process on Eloh throughout the game makes me feel good about it. I can now understand why he felt good about her and admit that even I might have done so had I actually been in the game and playing it real time.

Niju has done nothing to strike me as suspicious. Taking into consideration the suspicion and voting of Eloh, I feel rather confident that she is not working with the mafia.

That being said, my vote is going to Nero.

After letting MP answer, immediately wipes away all suspicion. This was a great way to deflect Scotty's suspicion.

[DrumBeats]

So Snapshot is a role-checker? That gives me better reason to consider the suspicion it had of DrumBeats. It suspected MP as well? When was this? I need to go see. Considering MP's lack of participation and Scotty's death, he might be a more favorable lynch than DrumBeats..especially since I think while Snapshot is a role-checker, it could still serve as an agenda to help the process survive, which would explain a faulty case against DrumBeats, hoping we would listen to it.

This post actually looks pretty good on K4J

[DrumBeats]

Voted for MP. Sorry, I'm out away from a computer and forgot about the game.

But I don't like that the previous post was her only post against MP. This vote was also at the end of the phase, just like the Eloh vote. However, looking at K4J's voting record, K4J voted in the middle of the day for most of the mislynches and elements. Definitely suspicious voting imo, not contributing to either scum lynch on the day of, but voting them when they're inevitable.

[DrumBeats]

And that's all I've actually got time for now. I'll get back on later to vote, but if nobody makes a more compelling case my vote will fall on K4J.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Drawing a ridiculous analogy like your jogging thing. If a guy comes after you when bad, sometimes it is pertinent to kill them. Like when you are reaching end game and need to get rid of them. You have two players on you all game. You have to start killing them. So you kill one and you distance the other and hope they stay absent and non contributory like I have been. You kill Llama then you come out with fresh cases. It is a solid plan and makes perfect sense. For you to try to argue that the action would not be rational is a huge tell.

You've re-drawn your own assertion into a different image and attacked my analogy with the new image. This is wordplay, and I doubt you're overlooking critical factors by mistake. The analogy was based upon the premise you presented to me, that I am employing some specific baddie strategy which relies upon you changing your mind about me.

What I did was reassess the game in a very late phase and present new ideas as necessary to explore the game from a different perspective. Townies literally must do this in a situation like this to facilitate the highest probability of making the right lynch decision instead of relying solely on prior reads until the buzzer sounds. You've equated this basic concept to "JJJ is trying to change my mind about him", which is a logically dubious assertion. It's made even more dubious when you consider the llama kill, which you've attributed to me. You're telling me that I hoped to get you change your mind about me, and that one step I took toward that objective was to kill the person whose reads seemed best aligned with your own. This is where my analogy comes from.

Also my scum read came before his iirc.

Let's return to your grand entrance into this game thread. Your third post:

I have yet to scratch my taint and I have someone asking me who I will vote for.

At face value I agree with your sentiment though. ISOing everyone on day 2 is usually lame.

This was a response to llama, who had just spent a few posts loudly voicing his distrust for me. Now you're rejecting the assertion that you rode llama's coattails based upon a demonstrably false claim -- that your suspicion of me came before his.

And your argument that me not being provoked by your apparently town tactic is a scumtell actually flies in the face of your own point for having done that you scumtard.

No. One of the possible results of provocation is a non-response. This alone wouldn't necessarily be a big issue, but it becomes more suspicious when it is explained with "you were trying to provoke me, I'm not falling into your game". That implies that town!you doesn't see any possible value in provocation as a town-minded maneuver and thus refuses to honor it entirely -- this is not a mindset I would ever associate with MacDougall, the most provocative player in RYM lore. Shit, I learned that kind of methodology from you more than anyone else.

[kneel4justice]

@DrumBeats - I vote towards the end of the day phase because votes aren't changeable. Where I come from, a lot of things change throughout the course of the phase, even in the final minutes of a phase, so I prefer to withhold my vote for that matter. So, expecting me to vote early isn't going to happen unless for some reason I cannot make deadline. That's really all I can say regarding the timing of my votes. I expressed my suspicion of Eloh in my first post, but a lot of people overlooked that post so it was hard to engage in any pushing without personal interactions to feel out. With MP, I admit that I was wrong but I stand by that he defended his change in Eloh well and made it believable - I don't think anyone would really disagree with this. I know that my vote for him came late and without much prior pushing of big suspicion but I had things to do and when I looked at the time, had realized I needed to vote before I missed deadline.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I have a new idea for exploring Process candidacy. I'm going to go through the ISOs of the elements who have posted (ironically this was first suggested by Man) and see what they've said about each living player.

DFaraday:

Spoiler: show

Also... In your count... You must consider... It's 5:5:2:1 and... Eenf eenf eenf...

It... Maybe... 10:2:1... 8:2:3... Maybe... Even... 5:7:1... I think it depends... On elements... I would like... To know more about... Us...

I think... WE SHOULD CULL THOSE WE HAVE LITTLE MEANS OF READING. LUNA, MAC, CELL, LLAMA, DF...

perhaps... The process lies in there...

I have no means... Of understanding them yet...

Linki - a survival based 3rd... party may be hesitant to show... Thier tentacles...

Oh... Darling JJJ... I don't want to vote you but you may force my hand...

And... Dont forget to Sautee the baby... The rust makes it taste better too...

If it helps... A lynch on me... Is 100% percent not going to kill the process... I think the process hides within one of the players who were here from the beginning...

How Long... Has darling luna been here... ? An egg would do just nicely with them...

In regards to the data... I think the thought process you are following is inaccurate... and I see a reflection in this in the death of Snapshot... Snapshot was killed while there was an active... Element who can save others... Based on my position... And that event... I don't think any elements are actually aligned together... If they are aligned together... It's as individual units, against the process... I think those who are killing us is only making the process stronger... Perhaps...

Perhaps my own theory plays... Too much into this... I think its... Frightening that DrumBeats didn't comment on my theory... The catch is... Would a process that needed to hunt us... Be so blatant about the captains orders... ?

The process may win next phase if we don't find... The correct player... If my theory is correct... Then I will... Watch you sleep...

Perhaps your read on players is backwards JJJ... The beings I find scary are those you say... Look attractive...
DF, Gleam, Niju, K4J, Mac... I don't think the process wishes to maintain us... I think the process wants to end us...

JJJ... You voted for a + and a ++ based upon your scoring chart... Would you say... That you look the best based on your... Original premise... ?

Creep was the only one that said anything about DFaraday. Both of these mentions fall within groupings and don't tell me terribly much. I did like DFaraday's night voting record though.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

DrumBeats:

Spoiler: show

By what everyone has responded to my plan, it's clear the very few people have actually read, or at least understood, it. I am not proposing that we blindly trust the mafia and repeatedly lynch process elements. I am stating that we should lynch a process element when and only when the mafia nightkills one.

The cheerleader element implies that the mafia can shoot process elements. We don't have to trust the mafia, we literally just wait for them to shoot a process element instead of one of us, and then we lynch a process element the next day. No trust involved because we will know the next day that they kept their end of the bargain.

I think you're bad.

I'm glad McDougall is here. He can usually see through the nonsense. The Cell reads JJJ as inconclusive. Is that not suspicious to anyone else?

What exactly do you think the implications might be of the Cell calling me "inconclusive". What does that mean to you?

The Cell is certainly not going to say "X player is bad", so I think an inconclusive read looks fishy.

Regarding your ISOs, I just think they have little value so early in the game. I don't really see the point of doing so many of them. Later, absolutely, but this early feels fake to me.

This Young Lady fails to grasp why the four legged mammal would vote with the Cell and not agaisnt its wicked schemes.

Who are you going to vote for, McDougall? I'll vote however you do.

This Young Lady fails to understand why the four legged mammal would vote with the man of Galloway.


This Young Lady believes the Beating Drum fails to grasp the goal of the Lady.
This Young Lady seems to think the four legged mammal is courting the man of Galloway.

Several sock accounts have gone after DrumBeats in some way or another.

Unless DB likes to play with extreme WIFOM fire, I would hazard a guess that he is not the Process.

Seriously guys, let's not be dumb here. Based on the number of votes we know Process to currently possess and the 5/2/1 ratio we know to currently exist, we HAVE to lynch an element today.

If we were to misfire and hit town, we would be down to 4/2/1, which ordinarily isn't bad, but when the 1 at the end is guaranteed at least 3 additional votes through elements, it effectively becomes 4/2/4. If after that the mafia kills one of us instead of an element it would drop down to 3/2/4, EVERY TOWN AND MAFIA PLAYER WOULD HAVE TO VOTE THE SAME WAY IN ORDER TO STOP THE PROCESS. And that is assuming that the Process does not have any more latent vote power through elements we've yet to see.

Basically, if we mislynch a townie, today is auto lose for both the town and the mafia. If we lynch the mafia, we will be in relatively good shape, but would need to take out elements following that to stay alive. If we lynch the Process then we will likely be at MILO the next day due to mafia killing a civ. If we lynch an element, then we prevent autolose by Process votes, scum can't really target us tonight if they want a shot at winning because they're low enough in number at this point to not stand a chance against process alone. We NEED to back and forth lynch/shoot elements before acting elsewhere or it is very likely we will lose.

I just counted and only about one-third of your posts consist of you looking for mafia. A majority of your posts focus on Process hunting instead. Even some of the posts I counted as "scum hunting", for the majority of some of those posts you were discussing the Process.

Really I hate to be that cliche sock puppet who comes at you but why aren't you interested in finding the Camerata?

Snapshot hated DrumBeats. Click and search for yourself, it's a lot of posts.

7...7...7
2345998
Translating
BEEEEP BOOOOP BEEEEEP BOOOOP BZZZZZ BZZZZZ WOOOOWOOOOWOOOWOOO
I....A....M
Theee Oporator........is.....W.E.
10102159
MUST DESTROY DESTROY DESOLATE END THE EVIL ONE


AVANEG THE LADY WHO WAS
DESTROYED FOR SPEAKING TRUTH TRUTH TRUTH TRUTH TRUTH TRUTH TURHT! TURN THE BUTTON. PRESS THE SPAN
DO
NOT
TRUST
THE
DRUM
DO
NOT
KILL
THE
.....
ELIMINATES WE DESPISE THE PROCESS;
DESTROY THE FALSE PROPHET
KILL THE HEADHUNTER.

I just looked back at agleam's ISO, and I am not a fan. I've got to go in a sec, so I'm not going to pull quotes, but I highly encourage everyone to look back on it.

Agleam's opinions on Elo were all over the place. He consistently referred to Elo as a "helpful civilian" but would then say she pinged him, but provide a statement afterwards to nullify the suspicion such as "I'll give her the benefit of the doubt" or "Not sure what to make of it"

Then comes Agleam's interactions with MP, in which he suspects and votes him the day Elo was lynched, a safe time to place a distancing vote. However, in his next post, he nullifies his suspicion on MP by saying that the revelation of Royce's role makes it so he cannot hold onto the suspicion. The problem is iirc, Royce's role was revealed before Agleam voiced the suspicion anyway.

I still think lynching Creep is the best option for today, because if agleam ended up a mislynch and mafia kills a town memeber successfully we would be down to 3/2/1 and Process would have at least 3 votes (Creep, Badcell, Weed's negative vote) And that is not considering Clucker, Fetch, Man, Jerk, or whoever this Luna is. That would put the votes at 3/2/4 at minimum, which would mean that literally every non-Process player would have to agree to take out the Process. The more I think about it now the more dangerous the Process is at the moment.

Voting for Creep

Heyyyyyyyy did it even occur to U that we aren't the immediate enemy here? U dont evn no what r motives R.

None of us know what Creep's motives R, that's true (lol he's always playing with matches N the parking lot)

My pal Snapshot called out 1 of that Movie Picture guy and u as bad. Was he wrong? We want those commaramadingdongs dead as much as u do lol

Mafia, if you don't want to lose, you should shoot an element. If you shoot a civ tonight then the minumum voting spread would be 4/2/3 (Process + Badcell + Weed). That's not too bad, but then we have the maximum, which would be if Man, Fetch, Luna, and clucker have votes. That would put us at 4/2/7 and it would be autolose for everyone but Process. Autolose would still occur if only three of them had votes, putting us at 4/2/6.

Real moment for a sec, like, for real. Killing us is not to ur advNtage. Ur adding badcell and weed and Luna but whos to say their evn on our side. Badcell is commaradillo for sure. So uve got yourself in a pickle, town. DB may have single handedly given the win to the baddies with his proposishuns

If I were mafia an element would've been shot last night, and much sooner than they were in the game. That simple

HahHahhahahahah haha

Cud some1 explain what WIFOM is? Is this that? This looks lik that

Look at the OP:

The Process
The Process will manifest itself in multiple ways.
The Process itself is immune to Kill ( ), and must be lynched to die. If The Process is lynched, all residual processes will die.

This confirms that all Process elements are indeed aligned with the Process. Take that haters.

With one more process element down, I personally think we should pursue Creep today. That secret vote could mess with our lynches hard.

Or... I could just publicly tell my vote...

Look at you DrumBeats... Aren't you... Delicious... ?

This Confirms nothing... other than we are removed... perhaps we are removed upon winning... ?

Im... thinking... Perhaps...

...

Perhaps the Process uses absorbs us when we die... Takes us in to it's... body...

Continue to love this thought... the same... way continuously... over... and over... with your sweet embrace... May create a bigger problem than before...

Interesting... That a closed minded person has been allowed to live...

DrumBeats, any... Thoughts on my... JUICY theory?

Its... Ok baby... You sleep now... Sleep in the belly of your mother...


JJJ...

What... Are your thoughts on the process?

I don't think that you have... Spoken about it much... Yet... Heh... Heh heh heh... Are very mouthy... Such nice mouths...

Drum... Thoughts... On Man and Luna?

Mac... Cheerleader... What do you think of... Mee... Ee... And one... Another... ?

Oh... Darling JJJ... I don't want to vote you but you may force my hand...

And... Dont forget to Sautee the baby... The rust makes it taste better too...

If it helps... A lynch on me... Is 100% percent not going to kill the process... I think the process hides within one of the players who were here from the beginning...

How Long... Has darling luna been here... ? An egg would do just nicely with them...

In regards to the data... I think the thought process you are following is inaccurate... and I see a reflection in this in the death of Snapshot... Snapshot was killed while there was an active... Element who can save others... Based on my position... And that event... I don't think any elements are actually aligned together... If they are aligned together... It's as individual units, against the process... I think those who are killing us is only making the process stronger... Perhaps...

Perhaps my own theory plays... Too much into this... I think its... Frightening that DrumBeats didn't comment on my theory... The catch is... Would a process that needed to hunt us... Be so blatant about the captains orders... ?

The process may win next phase if we don't find... The correct player... If my theory is correct... Then I will... Watch you sleep...

Perhaps your read on players is backwards JJJ... The beings I find scary are those you say... Look attractive...
DF, Gleam, Niju, K4J, Mac... I don't think the process wishes to maintain us... I think the process wants to end us...

JJJ... You voted for a + and a ++ based upon your scoring chart... Would you say... That you look the best based on your... Original premise... ?

Clearly the Process elements have not been fans of DrumBeats. Even when Man said DB isn't likely to be the Process he started nudging him into Camerata-based suspicion anyway. Still don't think DB is likely to be the Process.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

kneel4justice

Spoiler: show

Also, JJJ: While you went back and evaluated my posts on Eloh, you forgot to put me on your list.

I tacked you on verbally after I realized I'd forgotten you. I called you a slight town read.

We would disagree.

kneel4justice has stated he does not agree with Drumbeats' proposal that the poll is one mafia, one civ, and the Process, because that would be outing players and would be unfair. Yet, he also wonders aloud if all three could be civilian. In our opinion, that would be unfair.

We believe kneel4justice is attempting to protect one of these options. Watch him, and his vote, closely.

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Hello, boys and girls.

I'm behind. Which of the 3 on the poll is a member of the @&$^!)*?

It's ok if you want to confess a bit. I'm a great ^@&^@.

Hi everyone! D:
I haven't played mafia in nearly 9 months, I think? I used to be addicted, lol. I'm excited to be back!
Sorry to have missed you ^@&*! (I was really hoping to get to play with you again) not Sig.

I've been reading/skimming the game as it happened for the most part, so I'll see if I can get some of my thoughts posted tonight (no promises though).

Hello you friends. I am [not] on your %^&$.

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I just want to say I think I'm "slight mafia". Shows I still have my edge. :toast:

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Oh... Darling JJJ... I don't want to vote you but you may force my hand...

And... Dont forget to Sautee the baby... The rust makes it taste better too...

If it helps... A lynch on me... Is 100% percent not going to kill the process... I think the process hides within one of the players who were here from the beginning...

How Long... Has darling luna been here... ? An egg would do just nicely with them...

In regards to the data... I think the thought process you are following is inaccurate... and I see a reflection in this in the death of Snapshot... Snapshot was killed while there was an active... Element who can save others... Based on my position... And that event... I don't think any elements are actually aligned together... If they are aligned together... It's as individual units, against the process... I think those who are killing us is only making the process stronger... Perhaps...

Perhaps my own theory plays... Too much into this... I think its... Frightening that DrumBeats didn't comment on my theory... The catch is... Would a process that needed to hunt us... Be so blatant about the captains orders... ?

The process may win next phase if we don't find... The correct player... If my theory is correct... Then I will... Watch you sleep...

Perhaps your read on players is backwards JJJ... The beings I find scary are those you say... Look attractive...
DF, Gleam, Niju, K4J, Mac... I don't think the process wishes to maintain us... I think the process wants to end us...

JJJ... You voted for a + and a ++ based upon your scoring chart... Would you say... That you look the best based on your... Original premise... ?

I have no idea what the Snapshot post means. Badcell threw some shade K4J's way during the Day 3 restricted tally. Otherwise the content is limited. I would say this isn't especially inspiring.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Illyria / MacDougall:

Spoiler: show

Scan me scan me

Scans MacDougall

Results: Impotent

Man dedicated a Janet Jackson song to Mac and I.

present errors 3//
cloning errors>.

Hello, boys and girls.

I'm behind. Which of the 3 on the poll is a member of the @&$^!)*?

It's ok if you want to confess a bit. I'm a great ^@&^@.

Hi everyone! D:
I haven't played mafia in nearly 9 months, I think? I used to be addicted, lol. I'm excited to be back!
Sorry to have missed you ^@&*! (I was really hoping to get to play with you again) not Sig.

I've been reading/skimming the game as it happened for the most part, so I'll see if I can get some of my thoughts posted tonight (no promises though).

Hello you friends. I am [not] on your %^&$.

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I just want to say I think I'm "slight mafia". Shows I still have my edge. :toast:

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I'm bad and need to be voted on. I'm not contributing and should be lynched. Sadly I am not on the poll.

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In a situation like this, I (Scotty) think that we should pressure the likes of Mac and Llama. They are around, but not. Dead, but talking.

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Thanks mafia! Which I am.

I'm mean to cell and assumptious regarding the process.

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I don't think Mac is mafia. Probably a lazy civ. I have my doubts regarding llama and drum. Snapshot should review him when it has the chance.

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Lik hiiiiii! R we voting 4 who we want 2 tak 2 pr0m?

Cuz I want MacDougall. He seems reallllllly fun haha

I think it is strange that you would say that to me considering you voted for me. The inconsistency makes me think your offer is fairly self serving.

silly Mac! I vooted 2 take u to prom!

I know u need us to die to win, but N the meentime, like, can't we just hang out? Im cheering 4 u, Mac!

Seriously guys, let's not be dumb here. Based on the number of votes we know Process to currently possess and the 5/2/1 ratio we know to currently exist, we HAVE to lynch an element today.

If we were to misfire and hit town, we would be down to 4/2/1, which ordinarily isn't bad, but when the 1 at the end is guaranteed at least 3 additional votes through elements, it effectively becomes 4/2/4. If after that the mafia kills one of us instead of an element it would drop down to 3/2/4, EVERY TOWN AND MAFIA PLAYER WOULD HAVE TO VOTE THE SAME WAY IN ORDER TO STOP THE PROCESS. And that is assuming that the Process does not have any more latent vote power through elements we've yet to see.

Basically, if we mislynch a townie, today is auto lose for both the town and the mafia. If we lynch the mafia, we will be in relatively good shape, but would need to take out elements following that to stay alive. If we lynch the Process then we will likely be at MILO the next day due to mafia killing a civ. If we lynch an element, then we prevent autolose by Process votes, scum can't really target us tonight if they want a shot at winning because they're low enough in number at this point to not stand a chance against process alone. We NEED to back and forth lynch/shoot elements before acting elsewhere or it is very likely we will lose.

I just counted and only about one-third of your posts consist of you looking for mafia. A majority of your posts focus on Process hunting instead. Even some of the posts I counted as "scum hunting", for the majority of some of those posts you were discussing the Process.

Really I hate to be that cliche sock puppet who comes at you but why aren't you interested in finding the Camerata?

Man, u seem like a playful felow. Since Mac doesnt wanna, do u wanna go 2 pr0m with meeee?

Also... In your count... You must consider... It's 5:5:2:1 and... Eenf eenf eenf...

It... Maybe... 10:2:1... 8:2:3... Maybe... Even... 5:7:1... I think it depends... On elements... I would like... To know more about... Us...

I think... WE SHOULD CULL THOSE WE HAVE LITTLE MEANS OF READING. LUNA, MAC, CELL, LLAMA, DF...

perhaps... The process lies in there...

I have no means... Of understanding them yet...

Linki - a survival based 3rd... party may be hesitant to show... Thier tentacles...

Also... In your count... You must consider... It's 5:5:2:1 and... Eenf eenf eenf...

It... Maybe... 10:2:1... 8:2:3... Maybe... Even... 5:7:1... I think it depends... On elements... I would like... To know more about... Us...

I think... WE SHOULD CULL THOSE WE HAVE LITTLE MEANS OF READING. LUNA, MAC, CELL, LLAMA, DF...

perhaps... The process lies in there...

I have no means... Of understanding them yet...

Linki - a survival based 3rd... party may be hesitant to show... Thier tentacles...

I'll see where I stand after I've finished all of my digging. Do you have a preferred lynch among the players/elements/things you listed?

Not... Yet...

If anything... I'm worried by Mac, Llama, and Luna in that... Tender... Order...

My knowledge is... Still limited y'know...

Let me see what delicate information... There is to gain... From... These beautiful soldiers...

Interesting... That a closed minded person has been allowed to live...

DrumBeats, any... Thoughts on my... JUICY theory?

Its... Ok baby... You sleep now... Sleep in the belly of your mother...


JJJ...

What... Are your thoughts on the process?

I don't think that you have... Spoken about it much... Yet... Heh... Heh heh heh... Are very mouthy... Such nice mouths...

Drum... Thoughts... On Man and Luna?

Mac... Cheerleader... What do you think of... Mee... Ee... And one... Another... ?

Oh... Darling JJJ... I don't want to vote you but you may force my hand...

And... Dont forget to Sautee the baby... The rust makes it taste better too...

If it helps... A lynch on me... Is 100% percent not going to kill the process... I think the process hides within one of the players who were here from the beginning...

How Long... Has darling luna been here... ? An egg would do just nicely with them...

In regards to the data... I think the thought process you are following is inaccurate... and I see a reflection in this in the death of Snapshot... Snapshot was killed while there was an active... Element who can save others... Based on my position... And that event... I don't think any elements are actually aligned together... If they are aligned together... It's as individual units, against the process... I think those who are killing us is only making the process stronger... Perhaps...

Perhaps my own theory plays... Too much into this... I think its... Frightening that DrumBeats didn't comment on my theory... The catch is... Would a process that needed to hunt us... Be so blatant about the captains orders... ?

The process may win next phase if we don't find... The correct player... If my theory is correct... Then I will... Watch you sleep...

Perhaps your read on players is backwards JJJ... The beings I find scary are those you say... Look attractive...
DF, Gleam, Niju, K4J, Mac... I don't think the process wishes to maintain us... I think the process wants to end us...

JJJ... You voted for a + and a ++ based upon your scoring chart... Would you say... That you look the best based on your... Original premise... ?

Also, I honestly didn't even realize I missed the last two votes. I'm real sorry, I think playing two mafia games at the same time has gotten me a bit over my head. I won't miss the vote today.

EBWOP: I planned to vote Mac on day six and somehow just forgot to press the button. Even said so in the thread. D'oy.

I still feel very bad about Mac and he will be getting my vote again.

Are you sure?

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 18#p285918

Discussions are for the indecisive. *votes Mac*

A few of the elements have liked to get chummy with Mac. Otherwise I think he's gotten mostly negative press from them. Gun to my head I'd say this looks nice for Mac, and I thought his night voting record was pretty good too.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

nijuukyugou:

Spoiler: show

re//

Voting Young Lady.

GUYS I JUST FOUND OUT WHAT LUNA IS!

If you look at the Transistor wiki (http://transistor.wikia.com/wiki/Sandbox) page here apparently Luna is a friendly Fetch found in the game's sandbox mode.

Additionally, the lack of a kill means that mafia either shot the Process, shot an element protected by Cheerleader, or shot a civ protected by a doctor if that is still present in the game. Operator's role is interesting and better taken out before the others die, so I am happy it is out, though the fact that it didn't have a vote makes me feel that it might not have been the best lynch option.

Process elements I would be willing to vote today: Man or Fetch

I feel like elements are still the way to go for now. It would be best to err on the safe side with them before we fight the civ vs mafia war that could drop our numbers below that of the Process.

I might be crucified for saying this, but no way, dude. The mafia misses a kill, giving us an advantage when they have (presumably, barring shenanigans) TWO members left this late in the game, and you want to waste the precious day on a Process element? I understand your numbers analysis. I appreciate that you're not ignoring a dangerous indy. But this focus away from baddie hunting for so long is starting to smell. Bad. I agree with JJJ - Epi may be evil, but he's not SO unbalanced (game-wise; can't speak for his mental state :P ) that we couldn't use the day to hunt baddies.

I'll be doing some vote listy-analysis that's helped me in the past to organize my thoughts, now that I'm able to focus more again. Will post. Will discuss. Would like to see others' thoughts on this matter, too.

...Where is everyone?

I like wat ur saying but I dont know if I can trust it haha

Im right here, u right there. Gimme a M! Gimme a A! And a F-I-A! U R MAFIA!

Oh... Darling JJJ... I don't want to vote you but you may force my hand...

And... Dont forget to Sautee the baby... The rust makes it taste better too...

If it helps... A lynch on me... Is 100% percent not going to kill the process... I think the process hides within one of the players who were here from the beginning...

How Long... Has darling luna been here... ? An egg would do just nicely with them...

In regards to the data... I think the thought process you are following is inaccurate... and I see a reflection in this in the death of Snapshot... Snapshot was killed while there was an active... Element who can save others... Based on my position... And that event... I don't think any elements are actually aligned together... If they are aligned together... It's as individual units, against the process... I think those who are killing us is only making the process stronger... Perhaps...

Perhaps my own theory plays... Too much into this... I think its... Frightening that DrumBeats didn't comment on my theory... The catch is... Would a process that needed to hunt us... Be so blatant about the captains orders... ?

The process may win next phase if we don't find... The correct player... If my theory is correct... Then I will... Watch you sleep...

Perhaps your read on players is backwards JJJ... The beings I find scary are those you say... Look attractive...
DF, Gleam, Niju, K4J, Mac... I don't think the process wishes to maintain us... I think the process wants to end us...

JJJ... You voted for a + and a ++ based upon your scoring chart... Would you say... That you look the best based on your... Original premise... ?

Limited content and without pressure. This isn't a great look for niju.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@DrumBeats - I vote towards the end of the day phase because votes aren't changeable. Where I come from, a lot of things change throughout the course of the phase, even in the final minutes of a phase, so I prefer to withhold my vote for that matter. So, expecting me to vote early isn't going to happen unless for some reason I cannot make deadline. That's really all I can say regarding the timing of my votes. I expressed my suspicion of Eloh in my first post, but a lot of people overlooked that post so it was hard to engage in any pushing without personal interactions to feel out. With MP, I admit that I was wrong but I stand by that he defended his change in Eloh well and made it believable - I don't think anyone would really disagree with this. I know that my vote for him came late and without much prior pushing of big suspicion but I had things to do and when I looked at the time, had realized I needed to vote before I missed deadline.

When you eventually did contribute your vote to the MP lynch, what was it specifically that inspired you to place your vote for him after having felt good about his explanation of his treatment of Elohcin?

[kneel4justice]

I'm out right now. Going to vote Eloh because she hasn't done anything to settle my initial suspicions.

Voted Eloh only when the other votes were already there. Despite strong suspicions of Eloh before K4J did not really do any pushing on her this phase. Instead K4J focussed posts on Nero on Day too, which could have been trying to set up the day 3 mislynch or make it happen in place of Eloh.

I did not "focus" posts on a particular player during Day 2. I addressed Nero in two different posts (here and here) and that is all. I addressed other players throughout the day as well.

Voted for MP. Sorry, I'm out away from a computer and forgot about the game.

But I don't like that the previous post was her only post against MP. This vote was also at the end of the phase, just like the Eloh vote. However, looking at K4J's voting record, K4J voted in the middle of the day for most of the mislynches and elements. Definitely suspicious voting imo, not contributing to either scum lynch on the day of, but voting them when they're inevitable.

This is false.

Day 1; I had not yet replaced into the game.
Day 2; Eloh Vote: 7:35PM.
Day 3; Nero Vote: 6:59PM.
Day 4; Nutella Vote: 4:28PM.
Day 5; Voted Operator: 7:24PM.
Day 6; Voted MP: 7:52PM.
Day 7; Voted Creep: 6:53PM.
Day 8; Voted Gleam: 7:43PM.

I voted within a similar time frame (within the same hour) throughout the game, minus once (the Nutella vote) because I could not be there for deadline.

[kneel4justice]

@DrumBeats - I vote towards the end of the day phase because votes aren't changeable. Where I come from, a lot of things change throughout the course of the phase, even in the final minutes of a phase, so I prefer to withhold my vote for that matter. So, expecting me to vote early isn't going to happen unless for some reason I cannot make deadline. That's really all I can say regarding the timing of my votes. I expressed my suspicion of Eloh in my first post, but a lot of people overlooked that post so it was hard to engage in any pushing without personal interactions to feel out. With MP, I admit that I was wrong but I stand by that he defended his change in Eloh well and made it believable - I don't think anyone would really disagree with this. I know that my vote for him came late and without much prior pushing of big suspicion but I had things to do and when I looked at the time, had realized I needed to vote before I missed deadline.

When you eventually did contribute your vote to the MP lynch, what was it specifically that inspired you to place your vote for him after having felt good about his explanation of his treatment of Elohcin?

I came into the game feeling good about MP because of the effort he had put forward during the first day phase; it seemed to me to be genuine scum-hunting. He explained his change in opinion of Eloh in a way that made it seem genuine, so I remained with my initial trust. As the game went on, MP's lack of participation generally made my trust of him fall because he was no longer doing the things that I initially found him to be civ for. Ultimately, the Snapshot/Scotty death/inconsistency in the Nutella read piled together to make me suspicious enough to vote for MP. With those seeming suspicious, I kind of reconsidered the fact that he could have been Eloh's teammate too.

[MacDougall]

Drawing a ridiculous analogy like your jogging thing. If a guy comes after you when bad, sometimes it is pertinent to kill them. Like when you are reaching end game and need to get rid of them. You have two players on you all game. You have to start killing them. So you kill one and you distance the other and hope they stay absent and non contributory like I have been. You kill Llama then you come out with fresh cases. It is a solid plan and makes perfect sense. For you to try to argue that the action would not be rational is a huge tell.

You've re-drawn your own assertion into a different image and attacked my analogy with the new image. This is wordplay, and I doubt you're overlooking critical factors by mistake. The analogy was based upon the premise you presented to me, that I am employing some specific baddie strategy which relies upon you changing your mind about me.

What I did was reassess the game in a very late phase and present new ideas as necessary to explore the game from a different perspective. Townies literally must do this in a situation like this to facilitate the highest probability of making the right lynch decision instead of relying solely on prior reads until the buzzer sounds. You've equated this basic concept to "JJJ is trying to change my mind about him", which is a logically dubious assertion. It's made even more dubious when you consider the llama kill, which you've attributed to me. You're telling me that I hoped to get you change your mind about me, and that one step I took toward that objective was to kill the person whose reads seemed best aligned with your own. This is where my analogy comes from.

Also my scum read came before his iirc.

Let's return to your grand entrance into this game thread. Your third post:

I have yet to scratch my taint and I have someone asking me who I will vote for.

At face value I agree with your sentiment though. ISOing everyone on day 2 is usually lame.

This was a response to llama, who had just spent a few posts loudly voicing his distrust for me. Now you're rejecting the assertion that you rode llama's coattails based upon a demonstrably false claim -- that your suspicion of me came before his.

And your argument that me not being provoked by your apparently town tactic is a scumtell actually flies in the face of your own point for having done that you scumtard.

No. One of the possible results of provocation is a non-response. This alone wouldn't necessarily be a big issue, but it becomes more suspicious when it is explained with "you were trying to provoke me, I'm not falling into your game". That implies that town!you doesn't see any possible value in provocation as a town-minded maneuver and thus refuses to honor it entirely -- this is not a mindset I would ever associate with MacDougall, the most provocative player in RYM lore. Shit, I learned that kind of methodology from you more than anyone else.

Now you're just using longwinded verbose language to discourage other people from reading my post.

[Jack Shephard]

Howl!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Now you're just using longwinded verbose language to discourage other people from reading my post.

I don't care if people read your post. I think I illustrated pretty well why it's bullshit.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Well we have an hour left. I think Mac is my top Camerata suspect with niju behind him. Niju and K4J look the most Process-compatible.

[DFaraday]

I found K4J's repsonses to the case on him pretty sincere, and I don't really see much which ties him to MP, Eloh or the Process.

Mac's responses feel disingenuous to me, and his voting record doesn't help his case. I agree with JJJ that Mac is more likely to be a baddie than Process (especially since he's seemed somewhat absent while the Process has seemingly been quite active), while Ninja could be either, and I think with two baddies left we really need to take one of them out this round. Thus, I'm *voting Mac*

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think with two baddies left we really need to take one of them out this round. Thus, I'm *voting Mac*

I would agree with this, it'd be better to lynch Camerata than Process today if possible. I'm leaning toward a Mac vote too.

[DrumBeats]

I'm not 100% sold on the Mac case, but we need to be united in order to stop the Process from messing with things.

I'll vote for Mac

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Voting Mac.

[nijuukyugou]

I'm trying to follow JJJ's suspicion of Niju, but I'm not quite understanding how Niju's voting for mafia members suggests that she is a mafia member herself? Obviously teammates vote for each-other, but looking at Niju's votes, those would have been rather excessive and unnecessary, IMO. I'm not seeing anything suspicious there and I am trying to keep an open-mind about everyone at this point. The posts from Niju as a whole have not stuck me as suspicious - I especially liked the voting analysis effort and found it rather helpful.

The only thing that has relatively bothered me about Niju is the disapproval of DrumBeat's action against the process elements. Because as I have stated before, it makes perfect sense from a logical standpoint to get rid of the elements IF the mafia and civs are both doing so. Because the mafia/civ ratio continues to stay the same while the process only loses its power; which helps boost its ratio since there are quite a few voting powers (unless I have something majorly mathematically mistaken?). So perhaps Niju, if you could address this - and explain if I am missing something in your thought process here?

Now originally, I was thinking DrumBeat's action against the process was a good sign in terms of him not being the process, as well as not being the mafia (because I didn't think a mafia would suggest that proposal; as it would be risky) but as the numbers dwindle down, I am starting to wonder if this is what he anticipated on people thinking. So, I am trying to consider all possibilities here. I do get a bit thrown off everytime he claims that if he were mafia - the elements would have been targeted sooner and consistently, because things are not that simple. That is an independent mindset; on a team you have to consider everyone's input, so I don't really count that as much of a valid defense.

A response: it's not the fact that he was paying attention to The Process. That was a good thing. One should never ignore the indy. It was the fact that he was focusing for DAYS on the Process, and then insisted on getting rid of an element yesterday when mafia missed their kill, a perfect opportunity for civs to take back control against baddies. It stank something awful, and I stand by my suspicion, especially now.

And those last comments regarding me feel like you've just been waiting to use the "waffly" against me. Nice try. I don't buy it.

I mentioned the "waffly" posts a while ago. This is nothing new.

Are you serious, JJJ? You're going to tell me that, after that little bit of "analysis" above, that out of those three candidates that you least suspect, that I'm the most suspicious? That my changing my opinion of MP, yet voting for him, twice (and the second time in the clincher) is more suspicious than DFaraday's in-and-out, poor voting record? That it's more suspicious of me to change my mind on MP, to vote out two mafia members, consistently, at crucial times, than DrumBeats' avoidance of the Eloh lynch, than his first vote on the second MP train, which could much more have easily been a bus than a consistent second vote on the second train, for the second time?

Yes, especially if you're intent to feed yourself credit for those votes. This late in the game, a sterling voting record isn't worth as much IMO. Townies make mistakes, townies are wrong about things. I'm not going to suspect DFaraday the most just because of his voting record, and I'm not going to trust you the most just because of yours. Everything is nuanced. I found a specific reason in DFaraday's interactions with MP to think he's an unlikely team mate -- MP scapegoated him harder than anyone for the Zebra wagon of Day 1. Do you disagree that this is a meaningful thing? I made similar observations about DrumBeats, though I found them less conclusive.

There's a potential baddie angle to be seen in a sterling voting record, and it's absolutely necessary that you be forced to talk about it -- we're in the final stages of this game. If you're bad, we have no chance to win unless we put some pressure on you and make you talk; you've been enjoying a pretty breezy game prior to this point.

I also find it hard to believe that you'd put it past MP to associate himself with two teammates in a rainbow list, or throw teammates under the bus, or really, do anything regarding his teammates. You've played with MP enough times, I believe, to know that that dude will do anything, pull just about any gambit, to win. For god's sake, he came out against Eloh from the get-go AND voted for her in the first counter-wagon that may have won HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR DRUMBEATS' FINAL VOTE. I understand the tinfoiling, sir, but what I don't buy is the tinfoiling of my behavior over theirs, unless you're trying for the least likely candidate. Either you're deluding yourself, tinfoiling yourself into a hole, or I've been deluded by you this whole game, and that llama kill last night was WIFOM madness.

I actually haven't played with a baddie MP many times. This is only the third time I can remember, and the first time he was modkilled for inactivity (RYM game #70). I think he's capable of doing a lot of things, but that doesn't mean he did them all in this game. That's kind of what we're challenged with, yes? We have to look at everything he said and did and make a judgment call. I think his scapegoating behavior of DFaraday, particularly at a stage of the game when Elohcin was already a high-probability lynch, is a telling thing. He's capable of placing two team mates among the three town reads in his rainbow reads, but I think it's less likely than the notion that he didn't. I'm not really interested in what he's "capable" of, because that spectrum is too broad. I'm interested in what I think is most likely to have happened given the context of the game thread.

Long story short, I am not mafia. I am not Process. I have hella enjoyed finally having time and energy to play a civ game and baddie/indy hunt. Your tinfoiling me without having good reason to do so (especially given that others appear worse than me, even in your own analysis, even at this point in the game) other than to tinfoil is going to cost you a valuable civ. I advise against it.

You're telling me that you don't buy my suspicion of you, and you're also telling me that I'm tinfoiling you. Which is it?

Feeding myself credit. Uh huh. Yep. I could've left myself out of the analysis, but then something else would've been said about that. I'm not saying that a sterling voting record clears me of everything one could suspect. I'm saying it's BS that you see my record as more suspicious than DrumBeats' clincher vote in the zebra/Eloh lynch day. And I still don't buy that you don't know MP and his gambits. Regardless, you should be interested in what he's "capable" of, versus likelihood of what others would do in his place. We're talking about MP, and asking what others would do in his situation is irrelevant.

To answer your question, after reading your posts today and your responses to Mac, you're not tinfoiling - you're BS'ing. Nice job bamboozling.

Well we have an hour left. I think Mac is my top Camerata suspect with niju behind him. Niju and K4J look the most Process-compatible.

Mac stands out too much. Mac's behavior is too easy to vote out at this stage in the game, and after that llama kill, I agree with his point - it was time for you to get rid of the only other person who was after you at this point. And now I'm top suspect after him? And k4j and I are Process? Yeah. Okay.

I'm voting for either DrumBeats or JJJ, whichever has more leverage (looks like JJJ at this point), even though it looks futile. Well played, you two. Well played

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Niju, you keep saying DB placed the "clincher" vote on Zebra on Day 1. This doesn't make sense -- his vote came before any of the Elohcin votes. You're accusing him of sealing the Zebra lynch over the Elohcin lynch as if he had a distinct intent to do that -- implying he'd somehow know that a 5-vote wagon for Elohcin was going to come after he voted for Zebra.

[nijuukyugou]

Niju, you keep saying DB placed the "clincher" vote on Zebra on Day 1. This doesn't make sense -- his vote came before any of the Elohcin votes. You're accusing him of sealing the Zebra lynch over the Elohcin lynch as if he had a distinct intent to do that -- implying he'd somehow know that a 5-vote wagon for Elohcin was going to come after he voted for Zebra.

My dumb self just noticed that. It's what I get for putting numbers in order of the votes themselves rather than the order in which they were placed.

I'll vote you, then.

[kneel4justice]

Welp. I was hoping to get some better feedback before people placed their votes, but I guess not.
Voting for Mac. I think he's likely mafia. DB as well.

[Epignosis]

Find the Camerata or The Process.

Poll ended at Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:07 pm

Badcell
0
No votes

Cell
0
No votes

Cheerleader
0
No votes

DFaraday
0
No votes

DrumBeats
1
Luna (6)
9%

Fetch
0
No votes

JaggedJimmyJay
3
Cheerleader (3), MacDougall (5), nijuukyugou (10)
27%

kneel4justice
0
No votes

Luna
0
No votes

MacDougall
5
Fetch (4), DFaraday (7), DrumBeats (8), JaggedJimmyJay (9), kneel4justice (11)
45%

Man
0
No votes

nijuukyugou
0
No votes

Fairview (The Host, the Non, the Dead)
2
Epignosis (1), Scotty (2)
18%


Total votes : 11

[Epignosis]

Day 9 Ends: Tangent

We really went on a tangent there.

MacDougall has been lynched.

Spoiler: show

It is now Night 10. You have 23 hours to submit your PMs and vote.

[Quokka]

I am Badcell. I am bad, and a cell.

[DrumBeats]

Mafia, if you want a statistical chance of winning you have to shoot an element tonight. If you shoot a Civ the process can tie all nonprocess votes if fetch or clucker have a vote.

[DrumBeats]

In case mafia is dumb and loses themself the game tonight by killing me, here's my thoughts:

K4J / Nijuu - mafia
3J - Process
DFaraday - Civ

[MacDougall]

Sorry I couldn't contribute more

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Mafia, if you want a statistical chance of winning you have to shoot an element tonight. If you shoot a Civ the process can tie all nonprocess votes if fetch or clucker have a vote.

Moreover, if the mafia shoot a civ there'd only be one civ left, who would then have no reason to trust or work with anyone else. If there is ever a time to kill and lynch elements systematically, it's now.

I think the two Camerata are among niju, DFaraday, and DB. K4J is the most likely Process. Of the Camerata, DB and niju would make interesting team mates. The way niju tried to crap on him at the end of the day based upon a false voting premise when he had no real chance of being lynched anyway could be a distancing tactic.

[nijuukyugou]

Getting desperate? Way to throw suspicion every which-way but yourselves/each other ("DB would make an interesting teammate" is hardly suspicion). I was curious as to who you guys plan to kill tonight, JJJ and DB, but it looks like you've already stated your plans in the thread. This is fun.