[ENDGAME] The Office Mafia

#451

DrumBeats wrote:@ Scotty - The thing is that you directly said that we would get to make more sense of things after the flip and then voted a player with 0 interactions to make sense of post flip. What were we supposed to learn from Goldys flip other than Goldys alignment?

@ Quin - Why do you think INH defended you so hard last phase?

@ Matt - What do you think about INH's defense of Quin last phase?

Just an FYI, I still stand by my defense of Quin, and if you'd like to ask me a question about it, feel free.

#452

leetic wrote:
Elohcin wrote:I am going to go with Customer Service tonight.
Why are you posting such fluffy, non-game-related stuff this late in? Surely you have something else to talk about?

fluffy, non- game related stuff? What are you talking about? I don't think I've posted anything non-game related except that I would be back to vote after my show last night and even that was semi-game related. I don't know what you're talking about. Also, looking back at all your posts, you have only made ONE semi-on topic post. The rest have been "fluffy, non-game related" posts.

DrumBeats wrote:@ Leetic and Eloh - What are your current reads?

I do hope you aren't lumping me with this Leetic person by asking us both about our reads at the same time. At the moment I am most concerned with Quin for his/her "I'm a civ and you'll be sorry" post before EoD 1. As I've said before and as most people are probably tired of hearing...big games are difficult for me. I am trying to keep up, take notes, and participate as much as possible. I will have more things to say as time goes on, promise.

#453

Quin wrote:
Scotty wrote:
Quin wrote:Specifying the night phase would, I think, infer more than just a dead townie. Dom gave the okay because it didn't break the info dumping rule.
That's as clear as mud. If it weren't in our best interests to lynch you because the town needs you, and it's not info dumping...how...can you be town aligned?
You should ask Dom to clarify his rules if you're confused, I think. He would do a much better job of explaining what is considered as info dumping to him than I would.

I just looked, and sorry if I am lame, but I did not see where Dom clarified this? Can you direct me to where you asked him this question please? Thanks.

And @Epi & Indi~ sorry if you found me reasoning weak but it is what it is. I feel he was trying to direct the LD into detecting mechanics. While I find mechanics intersting too, that role should be gathering info on players rather than asking mechanics uestions and risking exposing themselves by leaking said info into the thread. You can build a case on someone eing bad; you can't build a case about mechanics without pasting a big fat target on your own back.

I have been out all day, and will be out again shortly. I read a bit this AM but will have to finish catching up later.

#454

I'm really very sorry for being absent. We had a whole thing occur on Thursday night that led us to decide instead of renewing our lease at our current apartment we will turn in our notice and move. So all of Friday we were apartment hunting and Saturday we did the same right up until I went to work. So yeah... I missed the vote. And I am moving in a couple months from now.

#455

insertnamehere wrote:
sig wrote:I'm here and voting for INH. Based on my earlier suspicions.
I'm gonna ask you the same thing I asked timmer. Can you further elaborate on those suspicions so that I can elaborate on them?

Your day 0 actions surrounding Matt, making fun of his list for example makes it seem like you were trying to derail the thread .

Also I dislike you trying to spin it that Wilgy could be mafia, that seems like a cover up to stop people from eyeing you for your participation in lynching Wilgy.

I'd also eye anyone who voted for BWT, he has been mislynched day 1 quite a bit and seems to be a low hanging fruit.

linki: Good luck with your apartment hunting Daisy.

#456

Spacedaisy wrote:I'm really very sorry for being absent. We had a whole thing occur on Thursday night that led us to decide instead of renewing our lease at our current apartment we will turn in our notice and move. So all of Friday we were apartment hunting and Saturday we did the same right up until I went to work. So yeah... I missed the vote. And I am moving in a couple months from now.

I just finished along period of real estate hell myself, I feel for you.

#457

insertnamehere wrote:
DrumBeats wrote:@ Scotty - The thing is that you directly said that we would get to make more sense of things after the flip and then voted a player with 0 interactions to make sense of post flip. What were we supposed to learn from Goldys flip other than Goldys alignment?

@ Quin - Why do you think INH defended you so hard last phase?

@ Matt - What do you think about INH's defense of Quin last phase?
Just an FYI, I still stand by my defense of Quin, and if you'd like to ask me a question about it, feel free.

I'll actually agree, here. Although Quin's statement about not everything having to be about baddie hunting sounded... poorly worded? I think jumping on it as a baddie slip is a major reach. Of course, it was day 1, so I'm not eyeing Quin's voters TOO much, either, but yeah... that statement does not = much of a case, imo.

#458

sig wrote:
insertnamehere wrote:
sig wrote:I'm here and voting for INH. Based on my earlier suspicions.
I'm gonna ask you the same thing I asked timmer. Can you further elaborate on those suspicions so that I can elaborate on them?

Your day 0 actions surrounding Matt, making fun of his list for example makes it seem like you were trying to derail the thread .

This always happens when I try to be funny in these games. From now on, I'll always be deathly serious, and immediately suspect anyone who so much as cracks a smile.

Also I dislike you trying to spin it that Wilgy could be mafia, that seems like a cover up to stop people from eyeing you for your participation in lynching Wilgy.

I genuinely wasn't sure, because when I posted that, Dom hadn't updated the role list with Creed's description. Also, Creed is one creepy dude.

#459

Voted customer service.

#460

DrumBeats wrote:@ Scotty - The thing is that you directly said that we would get to make more sense of things after the flip and then voted a player with 0 interactions to make sense of post flip. What were we supposed to learn from Goldys flip other than Goldys alignment?

@ Quin - Why do you think INH defended you so hard last phase?

@ Matt - What do you think about INH's defense of Quin last phase?

I'd lean civ on INH right now, so I'd put it down as him genuinely believing that I'm a civ as opposed to an attempt to gain civ cred by defending a player who could very well have been lynched yesterday. I'm going to check when exactly he did defend me and hopefully it was early on rather than before I'd gotten all those votes

#461

ANNOUNCEMENT

espers has replaced Goldy.
JaggedJimmyJay has replaced Bullzeye.

#462

I went with sales.

#463

Hey gang. I'm TiredJimmyJay, so please bear with me if I catch up at a leisurely pace.

Anyone who cares: what are the three most important things I should know about this game so far?

#464

Elohcin wrote:
leetic wrote:
Elohcin wrote:I am going to go with Customer Service tonight.
Why are you posting such fluffy, non-game-related stuff this late in? Surely you have something else to talk about?
fluffy, non- game related stuff? What are you talking about? I don't think I've posted anything non-game related except that I would be back to vote after my show last night and even that was semi-game related. I don't know what you're talking about. Also, looking back at all your posts, you have only made ONE semi-on topic post. The rest have been "fluffy, non-game related" posts.

DrumBeats wrote:@ Leetic and Eloh - What are your current reads?
I do hope you aren't lumping me with this Leetic person by asking us both about our reads at the same time. At the moment I am most concerned with Quin for his/her "I'm a civ and you'll be sorry" post before EoD 1. As I've said before and as most people are probably tired of hearing...big games are difficult for me. I am trying to keep up, take notes, and participate as much as possible. I will have more things to say as time goes on, promise.

In that case I think you would do better to address it to me and give me a chance to discuss it further, as opposed to hastily throwing down a vote for it and moving on.

So, what specifically do you find most suspicious about the post?

#465

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Hey gang. I'm TiredJimmyJay, so please bear with me if I catch up at a leisurely pace.

Anyone who cares: what are the three most important things I should know about this game so far?

Welcome JJJ!

Three things:

1. People suspect Quin for saying there's more to Mafia than hunting baddies.

2. DrWilgy was feuding with INH, then got lynched and flipped civ.

3. Scotty is taking some heat for wanting to lynch a low poster Day 1, as he always does.

And I voted Sales just because.

#466

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Hey gang. I'm TiredJimmyJay, so please bear with me if I catch up at a leisurely pace.

Anyone who cares: what are the three most important things I should know about this game so far?

I couldn't tell you exactly 'what' but I'd say that INH, Scotty and I (maybe some others but these come to mind easily) are most in the spotlight.

#467

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Hey gang. I'm TiredJimmyJay, so please bear with me if I catch up at a leisurely pace.

Anyone who cares: what are the three most important things I should know about this game so far?

1. You subbed in.
2. indiglo sucks for her hatred of pistachio ice cream
3. If I had to vote right now it would be for leetic or Matt (

)

#468

Quin, did you see my post earlier? I was trying to determine what Dom clarified for you, I could not find it.

Linki @faraday, no I suspect Quin for trying to waste the LDs time with mechanics questions. Him thinking baddie hunting is not all that did not help, but I suspected him prior to that.

#469

S~V~S wrote:Quin, did you see my post earlier? I was trying to determine what Dom clarified for you, I could not find it.

Linki @faraday, no I suspect Quin for trying to waste the LDs time with mechanics questions. Him thinking baddie hunting is not all that did not help, but I suspected him prior to that.

The only thing I've had Dom clarify for me in the thread is the hypothesis that the lie detector can check statements even if the poster isn't sure of the truth themselves. I'm a bit confused as to what you're referring to. Is it my 'you'll regret lynching me' statement?

#470

Sorry I missed the vote! I don't have time to read anything right now. Voting accounting. I like that trio.

#471

S~V~S wrote:
Quin wrote:
Scotty wrote:
Quin wrote:Specifying the night phase would, I think, infer more than just a dead townie. Dom gave the okay because it didn't break the info dumping rule.
That's as clear as mud. If it weren't in our best interests to lynch you because the town needs you, and it's not info dumping...how...can you be town aligned?
You should ask Dom to clarify his rules if you're confused, I think. He would do a much better job of explaining what is considered as info dumping to him than I would.
I just looked, and sorry if I am lame, but I did not see where Dom clarified this? Can you direct me to where you asked him this question please? Thanks.

And @Epi & Indi~ sorry if you found me reasoning weak but it is what it is. I feel he was trying to direct the LD into detecting mechanics. While I find mechanics intersting too, that role should be gathering info on players rather than asking mechanics uestions and risking exposing themselves by leaking said info into the thread. You can build a case on someone eing bad; you can't build a case about mechanics without pasting a big fat target on your own back.

I have been out all day, and will be out again shortly. I read a bit this AM but will have to finish catching up later.

I quoted it here. You said you asked Dom for clarification, but I can't find that.

#472

S~V~S wrote:
S~V~S wrote:
Quin wrote:
Scotty wrote:
Quin wrote:Specifying the night phase would, I think, infer more than just a dead townie. Dom gave the okay because it didn't break the info dumping rule.
That's as clear as mud. If it weren't in our best interests to lynch you because the town needs you, and it's not info dumping...how...can you be town aligned?
You should ask Dom to clarify his rules if you're confused, I think. He would do a much better job of explaining what is considered as info dumping to him than I would.
I just looked, and sorry if I am lame, but I did not see where Dom clarified this? Can you direct me to where you asked him this question please? Thanks.

And @Epi & Indi~ sorry if you found me reasoning weak but it is what it is. I feel he was trying to direct the LD into detecting mechanics. While I find mechanics intersting too, that role should be gathering info on players rather than asking mechanics uestions and risking exposing themselves by leaking said info into the thread. You can build a case on someone eing bad; you can't build a case about mechanics without pasting a big fat target on your own back.

I have been out all day, and will be out again shortly. I read a bit this AM but will have to finish catching up later.
I quoted it here. You said you asked Dom for clarification, but I can't find that.

I recommended that Scotty ask him to clarify his rules if he was confused. All I did was make sure that what I was intending to post didn't break those rules. I don't know where he draws the line

#473

insertnamehere wrote:My reactions are in smiley format.

DrWilgy wrote: Why would have I needed something to say Epi?

INH put too much effort in his mockery of Matt's point system. Thus I think they are on opposite teams. The reason why I'm defending Matt is because of this. If INH is bad, then Matt is probably good.

Regarding Quin, I have no justification for why I think they are on the same team, thier patterns feel similar though.
In summary, your entire case is a crock of something that doesn't look like something I'd like to eat. This is you acting almost exactly like you did in AoT Mafia, making brazen NO U's, trying to interrogate people, and just making up bullshit justifications instead of following anything approaching logic.

Honestly, before this post, I was honestly thinking this was just Wilgy being Wilgy. Now I'm pretty sure there's more going on here.

You're more suspicious to me than anyone. Congratulations, sir.

#474

Matt wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Matt wrote:Do you still think I'm bad Epi?
I was just saying that to see what reactions I could get.
Lol.

What's with everyone being anti-reaction baiting btw? It's DAY ONE (and ZERO) peeps, what else should we be doing? "Hey guys what's your favorite ice cream flavor?"

I'll start off with that question next game, see if that helps as an alternative.

Anyway gettin' some food with the roommates, I'll be back in an hour or two folks.

I like Matt.

#475

insertnamehere wrote:You're awfully touchy whenever someone tries to question your reasoning behind your votes...

You've been touchy about exactly everything.

#476

insertnamehere wrote:
indiglo wrote:I'm not crazy about how BWT jumped on Quin so quickly for that 1 statement. I'm not sure why SVS voted him either, I can't find in her ISO where she said when she voted him or exactly why.

I haven't been pinged by what Quin has said so far. But BWT for sure felt opportunistic to me, and not being clear when or why SVS voted him doesn't feel good either. I may be leaning towards a BWT vote here.
I agree with this. I remember when I was civ in one of my early games, and I brought up the idea that civs should also be worried about self-preservation and not hyper-focused on baddie killing. I was lynched for that, and I don't think Quin should be. BWT in particular struck me as very hyperbolic and opportunistic.

This was after I already had 2 votes and was tying for first place, iirc. So its entirely possibility it was an attempt to gain civ cred.

#477

Quin wrote:
S~V~S wrote:Well, Dude, that's a pretty controversial opinion, you must admit
I guess that's just how people are interpreting it. I'm trying to say that rather than doing everything for the direct purpose of catching a baddie out, we can act to collect information.

Is this where the Quin beefs are focused?

I don't take issue with this at face value. I agree with him.

#478

birdwithteeth11 wrote:
Quin wrote:
Not everything has to be done to help catch baddies.
I think this might be the first time I've ever been left speechless in a mafia game. I'm at a loss for words.

This also might be the easiest Day 1 vote I've ever had.

Votes Quin

bad birdy

Sorry for spamming y'all, I'm just dumping immediate reactions as they come.

#479

Sorry I haven't been around. I've been busy doing summer stuff outside and haven't had time, I will catch up soon.

#480

Quin wrote:
Elohcin wrote:
leetic wrote:
Elohcin wrote:I am going to go with Customer Service tonight.
Why are you posting such fluffy, non-game-related stuff this late in? Surely you have something else to talk about?
fluffy, non- game related stuff? What are you talking about? I don't think I've posted anything non-game related except that I would be back to vote after my show last night and even that was semi-game related. I don't know what you're talking about. Also, looking back at all your posts, you have only made ONE semi-on topic post. The rest have been "fluffy, non-game related" posts.

DrumBeats wrote:@ Leetic and Eloh - What are your current reads?
I do hope you aren't lumping me with this Leetic person by asking us both about our reads at the same time. At the moment I am most concerned with Quin for his/her "I'm a civ and you'll be sorry" post before EoD 1. As I've said before and as most people are probably tired of hearing...big games are difficult for me. I am trying to keep up, take notes, and participate as much as possible. I will have more things to say as time goes on, promise.
In that case I think you would do better to address it to me and give me a chance to discuss it further, as opposed to hastily throwing down a vote for it and moving on.

So, what specifically do you find most suspicious about the post?

I did actually. Soon after you posted it. And the whole thing sounded insincere.

Epignosis wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Hey gang. I'm TiredJimmyJay, so please bear with me if I catch up at a leisurely pace.

Anyone who cares: what are the three most important things I should know about this game so far?
1. You subbed in.
2. indiglo sucks for her hatred of pistachio ice cream
3. If I had to vote right now it would be for leetic or Matt ( )

Why leetic and Matt, Epi? I do think leetic is not playing well including his reprimanding of me, but I'm not sure it makes him bad. And Matt is acting like his regular self, imo.

#481

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
You're more suspicious to me than anyone. Congratulations, sir.

...thank...you?

#482

I'm sorry, but this post here reeks of baddie to me. Anyone agree, or am I crazy? I'm going to go watch tv. I'll be back.

'Reeks of baddie' doesn't really give me much in the way of discussion, elohcin.

#483

Why JaggedJimmyJay is beefing with insertnamehere:

Spoiler: show

Not only do I think this post denounces a perfectly sound strategy, I think it does so in a way that appears insincere. This looks to me like an attempt to capitalize on Matt being Matt (I think Matt's own comparison to Transistor is a valid one) instead of a reasonable mindset borne of genuine townie frustration. INH has dropped a big deuce on Matt's [perfectly acceptable] methods without overtly calling him suspicious for it -- this achieves nothing but to discredit (everyone's favorite word!) Matt and make him look like a boob in the eyes of the audience.

Spoiler: show

This implies an "argument" existed which provided Matt with a reasonable avenue for response. I don't think calling his methods "99% BS" fits that description.

INH puts way too much effort into making fun of Matt's meaningless numbers. Sincerity is doubtful.

Again.

Spoiler: show

This post is just horrendous to me at face value. The effort to shit on Matt is taken well beyond necessary levels and it's just gotten pointless to this point. Matt > INH

Spoiler: show

I found Wilgy's points totally agreeable, and INH discarded them without honoring them in any reasonable way. Gross. The "No U" accusation is terrible too. It's barely even true.

Spoiler: show

No.

Spoiler: show

Just as dismissive of timmer as he was of Wilgy.

Spoiler: show

I hate this post. INH never addressed Wilgy's concerns in a fair manner, and later he reduced his accuser's attacks to this. The one who is warping the interaction is INH, not Wilgy.

~~~

There you go. I've been here for eight minutes and I already have a case. Come at me.

#484

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
insertnamehere wrote:You're awfully touchy whenever someone tries to question your reasoning behind your votes...
You've been touchy about exactly everything.

I have opinions about things and people. I like to voice my opinions on things and people. I like to discuss my opinion on things and people. Sometimes, I'm wrong about things and people. That happens in Mafia, and I'm truly sorry to Wilgy.

My game style is to respond to any and all instances of suspicion targeted towards me, analyze them, and try to find holes in them. I realize me going in hard on every bit of suspicion directed towards me often ends up in more suspicion towards me, but that's honestly how I play. I've gotten mislynched many a time for being overly aggressive and touchy, but when somebody says that they find me suspicious, and I know that I'm civ, I can't help but want to try with all my might to prove them wrong.

linki: let me eat dinner and I'll come back and give a rebuttal to 3J's case

#485

Elohcin wrote:
Quin wrote:
Elohcin wrote:
leetic wrote:
Elohcin wrote:I am going to go with Customer Service tonight.
Why are you posting such fluffy, non-game-related stuff this late in? Surely you have something else to talk about?
fluffy, non- game related stuff? What are you talking about? I don't think I've posted anything non-game related except that I would be back to vote after my show last night and even that was semi-game related. I don't know what you're talking about. Also, looking back at all your posts, you have only made ONE semi-on topic post. The rest have been "fluffy, non-game related" posts.

DrumBeats wrote:@ Leetic and Eloh - What are your current reads?
I do hope you aren't lumping me with this Leetic person by asking us both about our reads at the same time. At the moment I am most concerned with Quin for his/her "I'm a civ and you'll be sorry" post before EoD 1. As I've said before and as most people are probably tired of hearing...big games are difficult for me. I am trying to keep up, take notes, and participate as much as possible. I will have more things to say as time goes on, promise.
In that case I think you would do better to address it to me and give me a chance to discuss it further, as opposed to hastily throwing down a vote for it and moving on.

So, what specifically do you find most suspicious about the post?
I did actually. Soon after you posted it. And the whole thing sounded insincere.

Epignosis wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Hey gang. I'm TiredJimmyJay, so please bear with me if I catch up at a leisurely pace.

Anyone who cares: what are the three most important things I should know about this game so far?
1. You subbed in.
2. indiglo sucks for her hatred of pistachio ice cream
3. If I had to vote right now it would be for leetic or Matt ( )
Why leetic and Matt, Epi? I do think leetic is not playing well including his reprimanding of me, but I'm not sure it makes him bad. And Matt is acting like his regular self, imo.

leetic voted Wilgy and didn't say why. Then he came in and asked about how you didn't have anything that wasn't fluff to say.

Regular self Matt? Have you ever seen Matt not act like his regular self? If so, what was it like?

#486

Quin wrote:
I'm sorry, but this post here reeks of baddie to me. Anyone agree, or am I crazy? I'm going to go watch tv. I'll be back.
'Reeks of baddie' doesn't really give me much in the way of discussion, elohcin.

Sorry it wasn't enough for you. I have now given you a bit more though.

linki: Epi - I guess you have a point with Matt. And I didn't see when leetic had voted without saying anything. I can see where that makes him look bad when that's added to his question to me about fluff. Thank you for that information.

#487

Quin wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Hey gang. I'm TiredJimmyJay, so please bear with me if I catch up at a leisurely pace.

Anyone who cares: what are the three most important things I should know about this game so far?
I couldn't tell you exactly 'what' but I'd say that INH, Scotty and I (maybe some others but these come to mind easily) are most in the spotlight.

Who're you beefing with Quin?

#488

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Quin wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Hey gang. I'm TiredJimmyJay, so please bear with me if I catch up at a leisurely pace.

Anyone who cares: what are the three most important things I should know about this game so far?
I couldn't tell you exactly 'what' but I'd say that INH, Scotty and I (maybe some others but these come to mind easily) are most in the spotlight.
Who're you beefing with Quin?

I don't even know. I was pinged by Matt because I agreed with the principle behind what INH said in that faking reads is counter-productive, but I don't scum read him after taking everything else into account right now. BWT doesn't look all that great given his vote for me, though. I feel as though my vote might go there tomorrow.

#489

Quin wrote:I don't even know. I was pinged by Matt because I agreed with the principle behind what INH said in that faking reads is counter-productive, but I don't scum read him after taking everything else into account right now. BWT doesn't look all that great given his vote for me, though. I feel as though my vote might go there tomorrow.

What about Matt's posts or the game in general makes you feel less inclined to go after Matt?

#490

I have now given you a bit more though.

That's what she sauh *clears throat*

#491

Welcome 3J and espers!

I am now about to enjoy a lovely football match, and shall then make my evening vote. And there has not been much discussion about the options on the poll, so it seems as though I will just do whatever I feel like doing, unless there is further analysis forthcoming from anyone.

After the football match will come GoT season finale, so I am likely to be scarce for the night. (I hope no one I love dies!

)

#492

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Quin wrote:I don't even know. I was pinged by Matt because I agreed with the principle behind what INH said in that faking reads is counter-productive, but I don't scum read him after taking everything else into account right now. BWT doesn't look all that great given his vote for me, though. I feel as though my vote might go there tomorrow.
What about Matt's posts or the game in general makes you feel less inclined to go after Matt?

Primarily, he acknowledged my vote on Day 1 but didn't try to discredit it or go to lengths to paint me as bad for it. To a much lesser extent, I can understand that he just wanted to get things moving because at the time there wasn't much of anything going on. I don't want to fault him for that.

#493

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Why JaggedJimmyJay is beefing with insertnamehere:

Spoiler: show
insertnamehere wrote:
Scotty wrote:
Matt wrote:+1 to SVS for ignoring me as a good civvie should do

-1 to FS and Scotty for rushing to her defense w/o letting her answer first.
Lol so a good civvie should ignore you in general? Got it
That's what I got from Matt's apparent ploy.

Can I just say that I'm totally over people throwing out some random question, other people finding that question suspicious, and then the original person saying that their question was supposed to be suspicious, and because other people reacted to it, they are now suspicious.

It's just BS 99% of the time, and there's no merit to the "bait scum by acting weird" thing at all. Every time I see it used it just seems less and less productive.

But hey, people are gonna play the way they're gonna play. Far be it from me to judge them.
Not only do I think this post denounces a perfectly sound strategy, I think it does so in a way that appears insincere. This looks to me like an attempt to capitalize on Matt being Matt (I think Matt's own comparison to Transistor is a valid one) instead of a reasonable mindset borne of genuine townie frustration. INH has dropped a big deuce on Matt's [perfectly acceptable] methods without overtly calling him suspicious for it -- this achieves nothing but to discredit (everyone's favorite word!) Matt and make him look like a boob in the eyes of the audience.

From the beginning of this game, I disagreed with Matt's strategy. I didn't say that I thought that Matt was bad, I just thought his strategy was dumb and hurtful towards the civilians. And if you'd like to debate me on that, fine. But it has nothing to do with me or Matt's alignment, it's just a disagreement over playing styles. I'd like for you to explain to me how false-suspicions are "sound and legitimate," but that'd probably be what the mafia wants. Getting us distracted over playing styles and mafia theory, and not actually reading and judging people based on their opinions in the thread seems like a pretty good way to sidetrack us.

Spoiler: show
insertnamehere wrote:
Matt wrote:Lol @ judging then saying it's not for you to judge.

-1 on INH
Lol @ dodging my argument and ignoring what I said in favor of attacking my sarcasm.

-1 on Matt
This implies an "argument" existed which provided Matt with a reasonable avenue for response. I don't think calling his methods "99% BS" fits that description.

Once again, this is an argument about playing styles and mafia theory. I.E. this has jack squat to do with the game itself!

INH puts way too much effort into making fun of Matt's meaningless numbers. Sincerity is doubtful.

OK, I've taken so much heat for this goddamn joke post that it's not even funny. I WAS MAKING A JOKE. YOU KNOW, HUMOR? Yes, I put effort into it, bully for me. I guess I shouldn't put any effort into jokes otherwise they'll be taken as rope to lynch me with.

Again.

Spoiler: show
insertnamehere wrote:@sig

maybe my suspicion of matt suspecting other people because they suspected him for suspecting SVS but was really just trying to get a reaction is just me trying to get a reaction from other people to see if i can suspect them.

-2.924765 sig

i love this style of gameplay. literally anything i do can be handwaved away for "trying to be game solvey and get a reaction!"

yay for no consequences!
This post is just horrendous to me at face value. The effort to shit on Matt is taken well beyond necessary levels and it's just gotten pointless to this point. Matt > INH

Matt, if you were genuinely offended by my sarcasm, I apologize. Sometimes I go too far, and I get too personal. I don't necessarily think that this is one of those times, but that's not really for me to decide. Just know that this wasn't intentional on my part. PM me or the mods and we can talk about this.

3J, I'm gonna say the same thing I said two times already. THIS IS AN ARGUMENT OVER PLAYING STYLES AND MAFIA THEORY. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO EITHER OF OUR ALIGNMENT. If you're gonna try and lynch me over me not agreeing with how someone plays the game, even though I think he isn't scum, so be it. But I'm not going to go down without a fight.

Spoiler: show
insertnamehere wrote:My reactions are in smiley format.

DrWilgy wrote: Why would have I needed something to say Epi?

INH put too much effort in his mockery of Matt's point system. Thus I think they are on opposite teams. The reason why I'm defending Matt is because of this. If INH is bad, then Matt is probably good.

Regarding Quin, I have no justification for why I think they are on the same team, thier patterns feel similar though.
In summary, your entire case is a crock of something that doesn't look like something I'd like to eat. This is you acting almost exactly like you did in AoT Mafia, making brazen NO U's, trying to interrogate people, and just making up bullshit justifications instead of following anything approaching logic.

Honestly, before this post, I was honestly thinking this was just Wilgy being Wilgy. Now I'm pretty sure there's more going on here.
I found Wilgy's points totally agreeable, and INH discarded them without honoring them in any reasonable way. Gross. The "No U" accusation is terrible too. It's barely even true.

I disagree with his statements against me for the same exact reason I disagree with your statements against me earlier in this post. At the time, I thought it was so patently obvious that these conversations existed outside the context of the game, that everyone would see how obviously illogical his points were. I guess I was wrong. I thought at the time it was him getting back at people who said that they had problems with him in the thread, i.e. me and Quin. He listed Quin as a likely teammate of mine for no reason given other than feels, and I thought his points against me were built on nothing. I was wrong, I admit. But I'm not gonna say that my thought process didn't make sense, or was illogical.

Spoiler: show
insertnamehere wrote:
Matt wrote:What's with everyone being anti-reaction baiting btw? It's DAY ONE (and ZERO) peeps, what else should we be doing? "Hey guys what's your favorite ice cream flavor?"
Seeing as I've played in many games where reaction baiting wasn't a thing, and there was still discussion on Day 1 and 0, so your assumption that reaction baiting is a natural part of mafia is just patently incorrect.

Plus, it's just unhelpful. Let's assume you're civilian, which is where I'm honestly leaning towards with you, picking on a random someone Day 0 just to see reactions is reckless in that you could be targeting a civilian, and people could find your false suspicion suspicious, and then vote for you. Even if you lay a trap and get somebody over semantics, there's still a very good chance all of this aggression is civilian versus civilian, simply because of how little you're basing your own suspicion on. Plus, it's sooo ridiculously easy for a baddie to find an excuse to try and lynch a civ by trying to trap people he knows aren't on his team. Plus, spreading misinformation and confusion in the thread even if it's ostensibly to find a baddie, is still detrimental to the civilian cause.

To summarize, reaction baiting is unnecessary, unhelpful, easily exploitable by scum, and downright harmful to civilians with its tactics.

Now, does this mean that I think you, Matt, are scum? No, not at all. Disagreement over playing styles isn't = to suspicion. However, Wilgy is someone I know has used these tactics as scum before and is using them in exactly the same way, which he admits! Right now, that's where my vote will most likely be headed.
No.

Good rebuttal. Also not relevant to alignment.

Spoiler: show
insertnamehere wrote:
timmer wrote:
It's day 1. You were in the small cluster of people who promoted the whole "let's say we're civs for the lie detector" thing. You also jumped a bit forcefully on Wilgy for my liking. Then there is Wilgy himself, whose posts haven't been great, either. But you, and the cluster who were involved with the lie detector thing, are all earning light mentions that could be read as a teammate making sure to namedrop you while simultaneously moving onto a civ target, while those mentioning Wilgy don't seem to be doing the same thing.

I've got virtually nothing, it's day 1, but if I've got multiple people who are all getting talked about the same level of weak, and one of them seems to have a "pass" current for some reason while others don't, that's where I invariably want to lean. I wouldn't even try to guess at the odds that either you or Wilgy are bad, but if one of you is, the way the posts are reading, I'd say it's you.

Again, Day 1, but that's as good as I'm going to get.
So to summarize...

- I wanted to help the civ lie detector.
- I find Wilgy suspicious, and believe him to be bad.
- People find me suspicious, but not as suspicious as other people.

If that's all you need to be convinced of someone's alignment, then there's a house up in Alaska I want to sell you.

Also, you keep mentioning "people" who were involved in trying to help the civ lie detector, which you seem to find suspicious for some reason, as mentioning me and then ignoring me. Whereas people who mention Wilgy seem to want to stick to Wilgy. Care to name some names instead of speaking in broad terms?

Timmer, I don't know your profession, but if I had to guess, I'd say you were an Olympic long jumpers with all these impressive leaps you keep making.
Just as dismissive of timmer as he was of Wilgy.

Because I thought his reasons for suspecting me were slight and based on nothing, like I did with Wilgy.

Spoiler: show
insertnamehere wrote:
indiglo wrote:Also INH, Wilgy I can no longer follow your multi-colored back-and-forth. Just an FYI. Doesn't mean you need to stop doing it, but I'm going to stop reading those, too many colors and such.
I know, I think Wilgy is trying to get me to argue deep into semantics in the hope that it'll make my case seem smaller. Hopefully it won't work.
I hate this post. INH never addressed Wilgy's concerns in a fair manner, and later he reduced his accuser's attacks to this. The one who is warping the interaction is INH, not Wilgy.

No.

~~~

There you go. I've been here for eight minutes and I already have a case. Come at me.

#494

insertnamehere wrote:From the beginning of this game, I disagreed with Matt's strategy. I didn't say that I thought that Matt was bad, I just thought his strategy was dumb and hurtful towards the civilians. And if you'd like to debate me on that, fine. But it has nothing to do with me or Matt's alignment, it's just a disagreement over playing styles. I'd like for you to explain to me how false-suspicions are "sound and legitimate," but that'd probably be what the mafia wants. Getting us distracted over playing styles and mafia theory, and not actually reading and judging people based on their opinions in the thread seems like a pretty good way to sidetrack us.

I didn't say I suspect you because I disagree with your position. I said I suspect you because I didn't think it looked like your stance on that position was as much a motive for your post as was discrediting Matt. I think this became more evident as play progressed.

As for your request: I make a living with reaction-baiting reads and it often works wonders. You're wrong.

insertnamehere wrote:Once again, this is an argument about playing styles and mafia theory. I.E. this has jack squat to do with the game itself!

Whether or not you're giving other players a fair opportunity to respond to substantive accusations has everything to do with the game.

insertnamehere wrote:OK, I've taken so much heat for this goddamn joke post that it's not even funny. I WAS MAKING A JOKE. YOU KNOW, HUMOR? Yes, I put effort into it, bully for me. I guess I shouldn't put any effort into jokes otherwise they'll be taken as rope to lynch me with.

Jokes can be fine. I like them less when the purpose of the joke is to make another player look silly -- especially over something as meaningless as Matt's little "+1" and "-1" stuff. I don't think this serves any valuable purpose to the town cause at all, and indeed it has the potential to restrict another player's (Matt's) ability to play the game his way. This is especially problematic coming from a player who'd just loudly criticized Matt for his methods being "counterproductive". This is worse than anything Matt did for the town cause.

insertnamehere wrote:Matt, if you were genuinely offended by my sarcasm, I apologize. Sometimes I go too far, and I get too personal. I don't necessarily think that this is one of those times, but that's not really for me to decide. Just know that this wasn't intentional on my part. PM me or the mods and we can talk about this.

3J, I'm gonna say the same thing I said two times already. THIS IS AN ARGUMENT OVER PLAYING STYLES AND MAFIA THEORY. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO EITHER OF OUR ALIGNMENT. If you're gonna try and lynch me over me not agreeing with how someone plays the game, even though I think he isn't scum, so be it. But I'm not going to go down without a fight.

Just to make it clear: I'm not accusing you of being "mean" to Matt. I'm accusing you of treating him in such a way that he is made to look like a fool for what I perceive to be a very bad reason. I've seen plenty of baddies do exactly this kind of thing, so I'm not interested in hearing you tell me that it's not alignment indicative. Maybe it isn't for you; I don't know you very well. But it is for some people. Hell, this kind of behavior was part of criticism I leveled [correctly] upon nutella in Battlestar Galactica -- she was more interested in making ika look like a dope than actually giving him the space to play his game.

insertnamehere wrote:I disagree with his statements against me for the same exact reason I disagree with your statements against me earlier in this post. At the time, I thought it was so patently obvious that these conversations existed outside the context of the game, that everyone would see how obviously illogical his points were. I guess I was wrong. I thought at the time it was him getting back at people who said that they had problems with him in the thread, i.e. me and Quin. He listed Quin as a likely teammate of mine for no reason given other than feels, and I thought his points against me were built on nothing. I was wrong, I admit. But I'm not gonna say that my thought process didn't make sense, or was illogical.

Those conversations existed in this game thread, in white text, and they were completely relevant to the play of a player in this game. They are valid to be discussed and I am inclined to discuss them.

insertnamehere wrote:Because I thought his reasons for suspecting me were slight and based on nothing, like I did with Wilgy.

You thought timmer was accusing you "based on nothing", which is demonstrably false, and you made no fair effort to engage him. You threw him aside. That's not good enough.

#495

Now that INH has responded to my original case, I expect other players to start chirping in now. What is your stance?

#496

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Now that INH has responded to my original case, I expect other players to start chirping in now. What is your stance?

I don't like that he keeps putting things down as 'not alignment indicative', and I'm not a huge fan of you trying to present his +1/-1 joke post as suspicious, but then again the fact that he went to the trouble of revising it and doing it a second time is also something to be considered.

#497

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Now that INH has responded to my original case, I expect other players to start chirping in now. What is your stance?

I like that you have your mascot costume on already.

And while I don't feel ready to draw any hard and fast conclusions from your conversation with INH just yet, I did find it helpful and illuminating. I am hoping to use it as kind of laying down a baseline, from which to grow on and compare to as the game continues.

I really saw INH's point post as a complete and total joke. So I didn't read anything into it. Maybe that's because I'm also a jokester? But I also saw a question DB posted as a total joke (the one about toasters)... and he clarified that it was a legitimate question, rather than just a joke. So there you go. I'm a jokester, and I see lots of things as jokes, whether they're intended as jokes or not.

What did you think (if anything) about BWT's vote for Quin? And the ensuing back-and-forth with SVS over those 2 Quin votes?

I am currently at half time with this match. And let me say, it is FRAKING NUTS!!! And this ref wants to be too big a part of the game.

Anyhoo, I'm gonna go ahead and do my vote, because I want to be unencumbered with mafia for the second half, and then stay unencumbered for sweetie time and GoT time. I'm going to vote Sales, because I want to.

@splintsy, nice to play with you again, I'm sorry your country has temporarily lost its mind. Join the club!

#498

Quin wrote:Specifying the night phase would, I think, infer more than just a dead townie. Dom gave the okay because it didn't break the info dumping rule.

I'm...confused by the first part. Not sure how else to explain it.

As for the second, it didn't break the info dumping role...and your role would be one the town would miss...

I'm down to 3 possibilities in terms of your roles' ability/abilities. And 2 of them are not good for the civs.

#499

indiglo wrote:Welcome 3J and espers!

I am now about to enjoy a lovely football match, and shall then make my evening vote. And there has not been much discussion about the options on the poll, so it seems as though I will just do whatever I feel like doing, unless there is further analysis forthcoming from anyone.

After the football match will come GoT season finale, so I am likely to be scarce for the night. (I hope no one I love dies! )

Oh, I forgot I was going to say something about this.

I imagine that you're voting for more role/s to be revealed from the department you vote for. Sales might give us Jim, Dwight and Andy, Customer Service might give us Kelly, Toby and that freaky tall dude, and Accounting would give us Oscar, Angela and Kevin.

#500

leetic wrote:
Elohcin wrote:I am going to go with Customer Service tonight.
Why are you posting such fluffy, non-game-related stuff this late in? Surely you have something else to talk about?

1) Black pot, meet kettle?

2) How is it not game-related? Elohcin has contributed more than you have. I forgot you were playing even. Although part of that might have been that you're new to me and I've never played with you before.

Who's getting a pink slip?