[ENDGAME] The Office Mafia

[Enrique]

Why do we fall, yung Turnip?

[insertnamehere]

this guy:

Read through Matt's posts, not seeing the baddieness. Anyone care to elaborate on the case?

Soft defending of Matt.

For the moment I'm voting LoRab. I don't really have a lot to go on, and I've been pretty absent, but reading through her posts, when someone spends that many posts on mechanics but then fails to really talk about suspicions except in a surface way, I get twitchy.

An out of nowhere suspicion and vote for LoRab. I can't remember him ever talking about LoRab before this. Why pick out her, of all people? And if it's a semantics thing about superfluous mechanics, look no further than Serge!

"Fails to really talk about suspicions except in a surface way"
Timmer, I can't remember who you have suspected all game.

Interesting point about INH in your linked post. I had cast an eye on INH early on, and I notice he's recently listed me as someone who he doesn't get civ vibes from. When someone suspects the people who suspect them, does that tend to indicate alignment? I'm not sure.

I had to look back to see who timmer was even referencing, and I dont even know.
Anyway, he is swayed by this post on INH, but also throws in that INH has suspected him, and asks [the thread?] if that is alignment indicative. Timmer, this isn't your first rodeo. Suspecting someone for suspecting you is called a NO U, and civs and Mafia use it alike.
I suspect you too, why not vote me?

That's enough for me to vote INH. He's sitting on other people's work and targeting the people who eyed him. Moving my vote over.

Wait wait wait. You vote INH because he is sitting on other people's work and targeting people who eyed him?



This describes you, my man.

You don't understand Matt's suspicion, you vote LoRab because you don't have a lot to go on, and she's asking mostly mechanics questions, and then you see INH has suspected you so you find it suspicious. So you essentially make a useless NO-U vote at the end of day on INH which gives him 2 votes.

Vote timmer.

Guys, timmer is playing a hypocritical game and he is bad.

am I allowed to agree with this case without people coming after me for "NO U"ing? (a term which I think is way over-used in today's mafia climate.)

[Scotty]

this guy:

Read through Matt's posts, not seeing the baddieness. Anyone care to elaborate on the case?

Soft defending of Matt.

For the moment I'm voting LoRab. I don't really have a lot to go on, and I've been pretty absent, but reading through her posts, when someone spends that many posts on mechanics but then fails to really talk about suspicions except in a surface way, I get twitchy.

An out of nowhere suspicion and vote for LoRab. I can't remember him ever talking about LoRab before this. Why pick out her, of all people? And if it's a semantics thing about superfluous mechanics, look no further than Serge!

"Fails to really talk about suspicions except in a surface way"
Timmer, I can't remember who you have suspected all game.

Interesting point about INH in your linked post. I had cast an eye on INH early on, and I notice he's recently listed me as someone who he doesn't get civ vibes from. When someone suspects the people who suspect them, does that tend to indicate alignment? I'm not sure.

I had to look back to see who timmer was even referencing, and I dont even know.
Anyway, he is swayed by this post on INH, but also throws in that INH has suspected him, and asks [the thread?] if that is alignment indicative. Timmer, this isn't your first rodeo. Suspecting someone for suspecting you is called a NO U, and civs and Mafia use it alike.
I suspect you too, why not vote me?

That's enough for me to vote INH. He's sitting on other people's work and targeting the people who eyed him. Moving my vote over.

Wait wait wait. You vote INH because he is sitting on other people's work and targeting people who eyed him?



This describes you, my man.

You don't understand Matt's suspicion, you vote LoRab because you don't have a lot to go on, and she's asking mostly mechanics questions, and then you see INH has suspected you so you find it suspicious. So you essentially make a useless NO-U vote at the end of day on INH which gives him 2 votes.

Vote timmer.

Guys, timmer is playing a hypocritical game and he is bad.

am I allowed to agree with this case without people coming after me for "NO U"ing? (a term which I think is way over-used in today's mafia climate.)

No, and timmer even offers the question:

When someone suspects the people who suspect them, does that tend to indicate alignment? I'm not sure.

So no, there's nothing necessarily wrong with a NO-U if you are civ.

[Scotty]

I don't think it's hypocritical at all. I was trying to get my top suspect lynched and he flipped civ. I told you to put the low poster thing on pause because I thought you were redirecting from Matt. That has been shown to be false. What's the problem

I don't get it either. Matt was your suspect, and supposedly Scotty's too, of course you'd prioritize him over any low poster. I didn't read your second post as saying "oh ya imma kill me some low posters!", but rather, it frustrates you to have little to work with... and that's perfectly normal. I don't like being put in that category, but come on, no one likes low posters. There's nothing hypocritical about telling Scotty to focus on what's in front of him instead of deflecting with non-existent players.

He joked about it, and while I do still find Sorsha sus, this is Epignosis harping on an inconsistency. He doesn't have to be bad, but do watch out for this sort of nitpicky manipulative behavior. It's not a great look.

You are way too reasonable this game. It's freaking me out

I only played with Enrique during Arkham and I didn't really take notes. Is he usually more off the wall in games?

[Turnip Head]

I only played with Enrique during Arkham and I didn't really take notes. Is he usually more off the wall in games?

Everyone who played Arkham should have been committed tbh, we all went crazy. Don't think I've ever seen Enrique this level-headed though.

[Enrique]

lmao i'm taking adhd meds now so that might be a part of it

[timmer]

Sorry guys, I've been too distracted this week to give this game its due.

I think the mafia has done an exemplary job of moving lynches onto easy targets all game, and now a gentle push towards me since I'm barely around just continues the trend.

The fact is, I thrive in mafia after a baddie is caught, as analyzing vote patterns and the specific timing of votes is my bread and butter (see my insta-spotting baddie Epignosis after I broke out of prison recently). At this point, I have nothing to work with, and I'm not around enough to properly study the entire game in the way that many of you do.

As for my INH vote, he NO-U'd me first, so I basically reverse NO-U'd him, which in my mind made perfect sense for a vote.

[timmer]

When you suspect someone, and call them out, and then later in the game that person just starts laying down a "I don't try him" vibe, when really, the only thing they have against you is that you had voted for them earlier... it's shifty. I've felt INH is bad all game, right from day 1, and I'm going to continue thinking that. He subtly NO-U'd me, and I tried calling him out for it with my vote. Unless things change, I'll be voting there again, tbh.

[Scotty]

Sorry guys, I've been too distracted this week to give this game its due.

I think the mafia has done an exemplary job of moving lynches onto easy targets all game, and now a gentle push towards me since I'm barely around just continues the trend.

The fact is, I thrive in mafia after a baddie is caught, as analyzing vote patterns and the specific timing of votes is my bread and butter (see my insta-spotting baddie Epignosis after I broke out of prison recently). At this point, I have nothing to work with, and I'm not around enough to properly study the entire game in the way that many of you do.

As for my INH vote, he NO-U'd me first, so I basically reverse NO-U'd him, which in my mind made perfect sense for a vote.

I'm not specifically getting on you because you're "barely around" nor am I making a "gentle" push on you. I'm glad to hear that you think yourself as an easy lynch with 2 votes currently cast against you.

I also thrive after a baddie is caught. More information comes from relationships between killed baddies. We're doing a shit job of catching baddies. But that doesn't mean there isn't something to work with.

Your NO-U on INH is not inherently sus, but NO-Uing him specifically because he was NO-U'ing you is akin to listening to one Creed song on loop for 10 hours. It's a lesson in insanity.

[Scotty]

Just because I am voting for timmer doesn't mean I'm done discussing.

@Drumbeats when you get back from vacation, I'm wondering your take on the Matt reveal and if I am still at the top of your list?

@serge you are in my top 5 of suspects right now based on your majority of posts being mechanical questions or just plain lackluster statements that make me scratch my head, like "vote for me. I dare you". What purpose does this ridiculous threat have? You mentioned timmer was "to a lesser extent" suspicious for distancing from Matt, which I agree with. Would you vote his way today, or are you dead set on Epi? If you ARE dead set on Epi, convince me, because I'm not on the same page.

As to @Epi, I can't figure you out. He posts crap like "the civs are going to lose this game", and isn't getting dirty with people as the Epi I remember of old. Occasionally he'll post things I agree with (like TH deciding it's a good time to look at low posters). I have little reason to vote you...BUT I also have little reason not to vote you.

[Epignosis]

[Scotty]

Timmer, can you answer in this post who you are talking to?

Interesting point about INH in your linked post. I had cast an eye on INH early on, and I notice he's recently listed me as someone who he doesn't get civ vibes from. When someone suspects the people who suspect them, does that tend to indicate alignment? I'm not sure.

[Scotty]

[timmer]

Timmer, can you answer in this post who you are talking to?

Interesting point about INH in your linked post. I had cast an eye on INH early on, and I notice he's recently listed me as someone who he doesn't get civ vibes from. When someone suspects the people who suspect them, does that tend to indicate alignment? I'm not sure.

I'd have to look back to be sure, but I think it was indiglo?

[timmer]

Sorry guys, I've been too distracted this week to give this game its due.

I think the mafia has done an exemplary job of moving lynches onto easy targets all game, and now a gentle push towards me since I'm barely around just continues the trend.

The fact is, I thrive in mafia after a baddie is caught, as analyzing vote patterns and the specific timing of votes is my bread and butter (see my insta-spotting baddie Epignosis after I broke out of prison recently). At this point, I have nothing to work with, and I'm not around enough to properly study the entire game in the way that many of you do.

As for my INH vote, he NO-U'd me first, so I basically reverse NO-U'd him, which in my mind made perfect sense for a vote.

I'm not specifically getting on you because you're "barely around" nor am I making a "gentle" push on you. I'm glad to hear that you think yourself as an easy lynch with 2 votes currently cast against you.

I also thrive after a baddie is caught. More information comes from relationships between killed baddies. We're doing a shit job of catching baddies. But that doesn't mean there isn't something to work with.

Your NO-U on INH is not inherently sus, but NO-Uing him specifically because he was NO-U'ing you is akin to listening to one Creed song on loop for 10 hours. It's a lesson in insanity.

If I suspect someone, and then they NO-U me, it just adds to my vibe against them.

[Scotty]

Timmer, can you answer in this post who you are talking to?

Interesting point about INH in your linked post. I had cast an eye on INH early on, and I notice he's recently listed me as someone who he doesn't get civ vibes from. When someone suspects the people who suspect them, does that tend to indicate alignment? I'm not sure.

I'd have to look back to be sure, but I think it was indiglo?

I don't see anything indiglo said about INH ever.

Here, sorry, I forgot the link: http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 00#p289492

[Epignosis]

I want to lynch Sorsha, but apparently making three posts getting her to expand upon her thought process was harping on the subject.

[timmer]

Oh, it was Sorsha, the posts are pretty much right above mine. Sorsha called out INH for doing the same I had noticed him doing to me.

[Serge]

I will vote for timmer.

[Serge]

Weak sauce.

Says the guy who thinks he can nail mafia by night polls.

I'm voting either you or Sorsha today.

I'm more offended to be called acting. I have never feigned ignorance.

Vote me. You know you want to.

Why is this offensive? Someone is acting. That's the game.

Offensive is a poor word choice, I guess.

[Serge]

In case no one noticed, Darryl and Gabe have been revealed.

The question is probably "should we open more folders?"

So I'm not sure why people are voting no. Vote yes.

A bit presumptuous, aren't we?

I think the "no" voters consist of the scum team.

Why? Revealing roles would benefit baddies too. They want to see what the civvies are working with. Plus it seems pretty stupid for an entire team to vote the same way on a extremely vague night poll in my opinion. I don't see it, and this honestly makes me feel worse about you.

If you look at the role list a ton of civ roles have been revealed. I'd rather we know what's happening than not. Why even vote folders and people in the previous night polls, then? I suspect Epignosis and I suspect Timmer to a lesser extent(lone post about Angela seems to be distancing from the civ lynch). Also, since we didn't know what the poll was for, they could vote with impunity.

@Dom did the night poll end with nothing happening because it's a draw or did you randomize the winning choice?

Why are you acting like there was a definitive in the night poll? The question could have been "Are you bad?" Hell, it could have been "Are you a supporter of genocide?"

My point is: jumping on someone for an ambiguous night poll is just clutter, and not an informative way to call someone out.

I am being presumptious because I want to speculate. And you're wrong about Gabe, we already voted for him to be revealed. The other new role revealed is Ryan, so I guess something did come from the poll last night. Also, it fits Ryan's character to turn out to be scum.

[Scotty]

I will vote for timmer.

Well that was easy..

So no real case on Epi? You voted him yesterday because "I rest my case". Your case is so rested some say it's still hibernating.

Linki: ah yeah it was Ryan. But your explanation doesn't make me feel better about your presumptions. That wasn't pure speculation- that was inferred reasoning from unrevealed and probably purposely censored information

[Serge]

My main beef with Epi was wheb he refused to use two votes in one of the polls. In that poll, the names were Michael, Dwight, Gabe, Ryan, and others. So it turns out Gabe and Ryan are scum. Looking at the other folders now, he and timmer didn't vote for Corporate too. Timmer and Epi voted for Dwight on the first poll I mentioned.

[Serge]

Sorry if I can't quote a ton of posts, I really don't feel like I'm getting better playing Mafia just on my phone. My mindset can't just get back on my previous way of scumhunting which involves quoting almost every post of every player. So I guess my only real worth in playing these games here are my votes, and I try to use them in the best way I can. Also I have a really bad case of tunnel vision.

[Scotty]

My main beef with Epi was wheb he refused to use two votes in one of the polls. In that poll, the names were Michael, Dwight, Gabe, Ryan, and others. So it turns out Gabe and Ryan are scum. Looking at the other folders now, he and timmer didn't vote for Corporate too. Timmer and Epi voted for Dwight on the first poll I mentioned.

In their defense, (I don't know for certain if either is Mafia) I don't think that reflects their alignment. If I recall, the poll asked to select "Up to" 2 choices. Plus a "choose 2" option isn't a normal option, so I can understand if they missed that

[Scotty]

Sorry if I can't quote a ton of posts, I really don't feel like I'm getting better playing Mafia just on my phone. My mindset can't just get back on my previous way of scumhunting which involves quoting almost every post of every player. So I guess my only real worth in playing these games here are my votes, and I try to use them in the best way I can. Also I have a really bad case of tunnel vision.

for real tho, I'm traveling a lot and have been on my phone with this site for months at a time. It's not the most friendly UI, so I feel ya.

I have a bad case of tunnel vision at times too, but the biggest advice I can give there is if you're aware of it, keep looking at other suspicions. There's always more suspicions to be had

[Serge]

I specifically asked Epignosis why he only voted once and he replied.

[Scotty]

I specifically asked Epignosis why he only voted once and he replied.

Ah ok. Well Epi's a special snowflake.

I still wouldn't base a suspicion around the night polling. There's just not enough info to base anything off of.

[bea]

RIP Indi. I'm sad you didn't get the chance to jump into the game like I know you could have.

I'm definitely not acting new. Weak sauce.

I don't think it's weak. I think it's possible. I've seen players win games by acting more confused than they actuall are. I personally have won games by acting more confused than I actually am. It allows players to lay low. I don't know for sure that is what you are doing... which is why I also answered your questions to help... But it does make me concerned. I'm not giving anyone a pass, and I need the revisit everyone.

There have been several weird kills that I'm still trying to make sense of. I know if I were bad, indiglo and SVS wouldn't have been top choices of mine given they had attention on them. It makes me wonder if it's they were on to something, a setup of someone, someone who knows them well (I'm looking at you sweet Bea ), or something else like target changing.

See...it's funny - because my paranoia kicked in with a N1 kill of wabbit, followed by the whole SVS did it frame job thing, then her death, now Indi is dead.

I start thinking in my head, this looks like someone is trying to take out the HV crew. And let's be honest, I'm the easiest mark to blame for that. That's why I was sketched out last cycle about like - you and lorab and indi and sorsha. Cuz the way this kill pattern is going, it looks like a great old skool Bea frame job.

Here's the thing though, I'm not the same Bea as I was then. Look in your heart, deep deep in your heart. Do you REALLY think I would kill wabbit, try and fail to frame svs, kill her anyway then kill indi? When *you* are playing the game? How is that kill pattern not setting up a big red flag saying SPLINTSY!! I'M BAD!! Do you really think I'm that ballzy of a player? Do you really think I would do that to those players or would I rather try and fail *yet again* to try to out smart them? What do *you* think bad Bea would do now? From everything you know about me, which goal is more important to baddie Bea. Being a good baddie or getting a win?

I'd give you the "I totes believe Bea would NK wabbit N1." Cuz that shit's always funny. I'd say you and I were both in an equal position here. But from there out, does this really sound like a plan I would follow if I were bad knowing that you are playing and you know our history as well as you do?


For everyone else, this is a WIFOM argument. I'm posting this for splintsy.

[bea]

Is Serge bad?

*shakes magic 8ball*

Something feels off, but his moves come off really aggressive for a baddie don't they? The poll was I'd say pretty intentionally ambiguous, so how can you base your whole game on who voted what option? Well, here's a possibility: he has info, just... not from the poll.

Serge do you wanna elaborate on why you chose Epignosis?

Imma liking you this game, but I'm not going to lie - when I looked back at teh old HV crew, I forgot you were playing so now yea..... You would be able to frame me too.

Long story short, I'm just as paranoid about you as everyone else.

[bea]

Sorry guys, I've been too distracted this week to give this game its due.

I think the mafia has done an exemplary job of moving lynches onto easy targets all game, and now a gentle push towards me since I'm barely around just continues the trend.

The fact is, I thrive in mafia after a baddie is caught, as analyzing vote patterns and the specific timing of votes is my bread and butter (see my insta-spotting baddie Epignosis after I broke out of prison recently). At this point, I have nothing to work with, and I'm not around enough to properly study the entire game in the way that many of you do.

As for my INH vote, he NO-U'd me first, so I basically reverse NO-U'd him, which in my mind made perfect sense for a vote.

I'm not specifically getting on you because you're "barely around" nor am I making a "gentle" push on you. I'm glad to hear that you think yourself as an easy lynch with 2 votes currently cast against you.

I also thrive after a baddie is caught. More information comes from relationships between killed baddies. We're doing a shit job of catching baddies. But that doesn't mean there isn't something to work with.

Your NO-U on INH is not inherently sus, but NO-Uing him specifically because he was NO-U'ing you is akin to listening to one Creed song on loop for 10 hours. It's a lesson in insanity.

And that, kids, is why I'm always happy we have Scotty.

[bea]

Sorry if I can't quote a ton of posts, I really don't feel like I'm getting better playing Mafia just on my phone. My mindset can't just get back on my previous way of scumhunting which involves quoting almost every post of every player. So I guess my only real worth in playing these games here are my votes, and I try to use them in the best way I can. Also I have a really bad case of tunnel vision.

I feel your phone posting pain. Back in the day my *only* internet access was a beat down crackberry. I was terminally 6 or more posts behind what was going on and The return key was broken on my phone so everything I *did* say was one long run on paragraph of 11ty millon thoughts.

This post and the one before it help me feel better about where you are in your head space Serge - so from your phone keep doing that.

I will say - you bring up a point that is worth mentioning. It's good that you are keeping who voted where in those early stages alive, and also - we should look at everything else too.

Playing catsup from your phone is hard. I don't often post when I'm reading on my phone for all the reasons you complain about - then when I get home I often forget the details of what I read 8 or more hours ago were.

The best advice I can give you - and me - is when you read, post about it. In as much detail as time allows you to. You might not get the quotes, but the more you can keep us in your head space, the better. Ya know?

Your last couple posts were awesome. More of that please.

[Enrique]

I will vote for timmer.

Why is this happening?

[bea]

I will vote for timmer.

Why is this happening?

IDK?

[Turnip Head]

I will vote for whoever Enrique thinks we should lynch.

[bea]

I'm voting sorsha so i don't miss the vote, but I'm o;pen to discussion....

[DrumBeats]

Reading through everything now. After tomorrow night, I'm going to be relatively busy on Thursday and Friday, so I'll try to get some stuff out then, but I won't be near as active as usual.

Serge's theory about the scum lying in the No voters is ridiculous imo. I'm sure there are some scum votes there. But I would bet there are some scum votes in yes as well. The points raised against him about his content ratio are alarming, and I want to do a full ISO of all the low-posters to examine the content they've put forward.

I'm trying to figure out where I stand on Scotty right now. My reasoning for him wasn't entirely dependent on Matt, but the same could be said for my Matt read and I was wrong about that one. I did notice you say Scotty that you had been dancing around Matt, why?

Scotty's case on timmer seems like it could be promising, I'll have to look into the ISO. I don't like the subtle defense of Lorab in it though, because Lorab is still one of my high scumreads.

Also find Scotty's new thoughts of NO U as a bit contradictory towards how he talked about it earlier in the game, as he's used it multiple times to discredit my arguments. I'll do a specialized NO U ISO for Scotty to see if this is just me being bias right now or if it is a difference.

@Drumbeats when you get back from vacation, I'm wondering your take on the Matt reveal and if I am still at the top of your list?

Not at the top, but still on there. I want to look into you a bit more, and re-evaluate with the new knowledge about Matt.

Really not liking Serge's tunnel vision on the night polls. I feel like he is choosing the least alignment-indicative aspect of the game and harping on it enough to appear to be contributing, by doing absolutely nothing.

@ TH's new philosphy - I like Enrique too, but even civs can be way wrong about their suspicions (lol @ me and matt). Vote for yourself, because in the end you are responsible for it. Sheeping is the worst.

ISOs that are inbound within the day phase:
Low-Poster Content analysis:
DFaraday
Enrique
Splints
Espers
LoRab
Serge (High post count - but low content)
Sorsha
Spacedaisy
timmer
juliets
(Hot damn that's a lot of low posters)
Scotty NO U analysis

Later I want to do a full Scotty ISO, as well as an INH, and Epi one, but those I'm not sure I can fit in today.

Also it should be noted that 20/26 roles have been revealed. If there's an explanation for SVS's vote - it will have to show up soon.

[bea]

how did I not make your low posters list??

Those that did do deserve a good looktielu.

[DrumBeats]

@ Bea - You had 50+ posts and I feel like yours have content so in order to save myself some time, I'm not doing you with the low posters. Only person in the low poster group that has more posts than you is Serge, but that I because I can't remember a single contribution from him.

I'm adding you to my "Do an ISO later" group though.

[DrumBeats]

Sorry that these aren't 3J quality, ISO's are an art form that I am not well-acquainted with. Basically I'm going to check how much content each of our low posters has put forward, how much each of them have sheeped other people's reasoning, how much fluff they've posted, mechanical focus, etc. I'm going to separate Day 0 posts from the rest - since certain things such as mechanical discussion is more acceptable then. I'll try to do a tl;dr breakdown after each one too, since let's face it, if we have this many low posters I doubt all of these posts will be read in entirety.

DFaraday ISO

Spoiler: show

I'm thinking that voting for Personell will reveal the player list. Which would be a nice place to start. I voted there.
Wonder what Management or Memo will do, if anything. Reveal upper management roles maybe? Memo=win conditions or something?

Maybe personnel will be the player list and management will be abilities or something. But Memo sounds like a wild card option, so I'll go with that. I've never found it helpful (at least to me personally) to hypothesize too much over Day 0 options.

*votes Memo*

Day 0 Mechanic conversation.

+1 to SVS for ignoring me as a good civvie should do

-1 to FS and Scotty for rushing to her defense w/o letting her answer first.

Lol so a good civvie should ignore you in general? Got it

That's what I got from Matt's apparent ploy.

Can I just say that I'm totally over people throwing out some random question, other people finding that question suspicious, and then the original person saying that their question was supposed to be suspicious, and because other people reacted to it, they are now suspicious.

It's just BS 99% of the time, and there's no merit to the "bait scum by acting weird" thing at all. Every time I see it used it just seems less and less productive.

But hey, people are gonna play the way they're gonna play. Far be it from me to judge them.

That whole "JK, I was just baiting the real baddies, everything I've said is a lie but I'm totally a civvie" is my least favorite tactic currently in vogue. Civvies are supposed to work together, so deliberately posting false opinions in the thread strikes me as counter-productive to one's supposed allies.

Anyway, I don't see anything suspicious about what SVS originally said, and thus Splints and Scotty helping to clarify that point are also not suspicious for doing so. The only one who looks at all shady here is Matt, but every game I think Matt is suspicious for his weird gameplay, so I don't want to read too much into that just yet.

Day 0, gets involved in the Matt/Splints/Scotty convo. Sides with Splints/Scotty over Matt.

Finally caught up.

I don't necessarily find Quin's statements/actions suspicious, since I get what he was trying to say. It can be beneficial to the town to do things besides directly lynching baddies. In this particular case I don't think Quin's fixation on Pam is particularly helpful, but I don't find him overtly suspicious because of it.

I will be *voting Wilgy* because his voting logic was weak and the follow-up with INH has left me feeling that INH was more genuine. Also, it's been brought up that this is apparently reminiscent of baddie Wilgy in earlier games.

Day 1, defense of Quin, vote on Wilgy.

Hey gang. I'm TiredJimmyJay, so please bear with me if I catch up at a leisurely pace.

Anyone who cares: what are the three most important things I should know about this game so far?

Welcome JJJ!

Three things:

1. People suspect Quin for saying there's more to Mafia than hunting baddies.

2. DrWilgy was feuding with INH, then got lynched and flipped civ.

3. Scotty is taking some heat for wanting to lynch a low poster Day 1, as he always does.

And I voted Sales just because.

Night 1 I think. Subtly takes three stances in his summary to 3J, which are that Quin and Scotty are being suspected for nothing and lightly blaming the Wilgy lynch on INH. At first glance I wasn't a fan of this post because I wasn't a fan of how he explained the Scotty suspicion, but he seemed to do the same for Quin, which makes me feel a bit better.

Both the Epi voters and the leetic voters are pinging me a bit, as I haven't seen any reason to suspect either of them. Although it's possible that Bea and Splints could be forced by Meredith.

What's more noticeable to me is the shift in attitude of the Day 1 Quin voters:

I was out all weekend and had to read Quin in ISO; would it surprise you to hear that his output during the night period made me feel much better about him? Would it surprise you to hear that his vote made me feel even better?

Also would not surprise me to hear that the night made you feel better about Quin, I feel a bit better about him myself. The vote making you feel better surprises me a bit, but whatever floats your boat

I know I definitely am not. We're less than 24 hours away from Day 2 ending, Quin's posts since after the Day 1 lynch have started to make me feel better about him, and I'm currently catching up and have zero suspicions on anyone. Although part of that may be because this is a very large game and most large games take me a bit longer to start to sink in and get more concrete ideas.

3 of the 4 Quin voters now feel good about him (DB even listed Quin as civ) with basically no reasoning for this shift beyond, "His posts made me feel better about him." BWT's especially strikes me as an easy way to springboard off of what the others said without offering any new thoughts on Quin. I'll be looking at these three for the remainder of the phase to see if anything else stands out to me.

I think day 2. Takes a stance on those who are now civ reading Quin.

@Faraday, why do you think that being bad is the only reason one may change ones mind overnight in a Mafia game? Why do think that people who disagree with you are suspicious?

I didn't say either of those things. I find it odd that 3/4 of the Quin voters had a sudden change of heart with very little in-thread reasoning for that development.

I don't find the Epi and leetic suspicions shady because I don't agree with them (although I see how it could come off that way); it's more that their reasons were weak. I fail to see how Epi's post count is indicative of alignment, or even an accurate assessment of his typical play
(his post count in recent months varies quite a bit from game to game). The leetic votes are based on almost nothing, which leads me to wonder whether one or more of them is forced.

Defense of leetic/Epi because he doesn't like the reasons.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 99#p288699

Defense of Epi

@ DFaraday - My main suspicion on Quin was the discrepancy between saying baddie hunting was his top priority and him focussing very little on it day one. Over the night, and early day one Quin contributed much more to the thread than I have seen from a lot of players, including you, so that is enough to shift him to a civ read for now.

And here's a subtle NO U from DB for no reason. Also, as easy as it is to fall into that mindset (I do it a lot), post count is not indicative of alignment. In Transistor JJJ played the supatownest of supatown games, and was a baddie all along. But of course you know that.

Comment about post count and a NO U from me. The wording "for no reason" isn't something I particularly like, but I like how he is taking stances on things.

I'm *voting BWT*. He's the worst-looking of the 3 I was looking at (although DB is also giving me pause), and I see no reason for leetic to be lynched.

BWT vote. Feels organic from his past reasoning. Mentions also suspecting me and disagreement with the leetic lynch.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 05#p288705

Defense from SVS

I voted Corporate and Receiving because it has to have a reason for being there.

Mechanics.

I agree with DB that this scenario presents a huge benefit for the Mafia. Since the day phase was so short, we're essentially in three straight night phases, where the baddies can keep killing unchecked. Add in Quin's death, and the Mafia basically get 4 kills in a row while we're sitting ducks. Not to mention, by the time this long night is over, we'll probably have a very divisive argument over whether SVS should be lynched, potentially stalling things in the baddies' favor even longer. It absolutely seems worth it for a Mafia member to risk themselves for what amounts to an extended period of thread domination and kills free of reprisal.

Besides, the reasons for SVS being civ are all more convoluted than her being bad. The whole "No baddie would risk themselves like that!" angle is pure WIFOM, and the scenario in which SVS just happened to vote super early, and the baddies just happened to know she would vote super early, and just happened to be around to send in a PM fast enough that no other players had even left a placeholder vote all strains credulity more than the notion that SVS is complicit.

Stance against SVS after QuinGate. This was an unpopular stance at the time and not something I think mafia would try to push.

I am appalled that anyone thinks I am enough of an idiot to do this. I mean, I can be an idiot, but I am a player whose best use to a bad team is via manipulation & talking in thread, not out of self sacrifice. But whatevs, if you want to lynch me Drum, go for it. You will be dissappointed if you really expect me to flip bad.

Also, re the use of the word "forced"; has it occurred to you that I am not allowed to directly say I was targeted?

What other factual checkable statement would you like me to make?

Linki @Faraday, what do you think of my factual remarks? We have 2 nights in a row for Pam to check me. What factual questions would you like to ask me?

You've made a few solid checkable remarks, but I don't think it proves much since a) Pam can't share with the thread what she learns, and b) we don't even know if Pam is alive, or will be by the time this Eternal Night Phase ends.

But for sportsmanship's sake:

Why did you vote immediately?
Were you aware of the day-ending ability?

More against SVS.

There could be another role that forces votes on even nights. Or the role is made up a la GoC 2015. I see plenty of ways around it, though I realize I'm starting to sound like I'm in denial.

TL;DR making conclusions based off an incomplete list of roles is foolish.

The game definitely has at least two vote controllers already; I think it's very unlikely that there would be three. Since SVS doesn't meet the criteria for Meredith or Jo, the most plausible explanation is that she was not forced.

As for JJJ, I thought he was civ, and unless the baddies missed their kill or were redirected I don't see why he'd be baddie. But then I always remember WWE Mafia where one team inexplicably decided to NK one of their own team members on Night 2 and then I remember that Mafia can make really weird decisions.

Stuff against SVS and bringing up the possibility of a mafia self-kill. The fact that he brought up a mafia self-kill before a potential one happened is SVS is a bit weird imo, but I'll wait for more role info to decide SVS's alignment before I make that judgment.

Also TurnipHead. His constant defense of SVS reminds me of AWR when we had quite a few circumstantial pieces of evidence that SVS was bad and he still refused to believe it. (She was bad, so were TH and I, on the opposite team, ftr). I'll be keeping an eye on him for now, if SVS were lynched and came back civ he would jump up to #1 for me.

I forgot to respond to this. I don't really understand the connection you're drawing. I'm sure I've defended SVS just as often as I've accused her, I'm probably batting .500. I feel okay about your motives though so feel free to keep an eye on me

It means I question your ability to read SVS and I feel like you lean civ on her a bit more than is warranted.

ripiywg SVS... it's not unheard of for the mafia to kill one of their own. Especially if they thought she would be getting lynched today, plus it saves her team from having to defend her. And it makes everyone go WTF.

Is mafia killing their own common here? Can someone provide me with some games when this has happened?

My team did it in Downton Abbey mafia. http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... =27&t=1002

I thought someone else mentioned another time here in this thread but I don't remember who or what game it was.

I wouldn't say its common here... We only did it because Long Con was toast anyway and it made the civs all

I brought up WWE, where a team NKed one of their own, the reasoning being so that nobody could make connections between the one under suspicion and her team. Except she was by no means the center of attention like SVS has been in this game. I wonder whether that happened here, to prevent any connections being made between SVS and her teammates.

Contributed to the SVS self-kill theory with past games. Makes a stance that he believes SVS could have been mafia, which is still an unpopular one.

I'm not sure why people are trying to figure out Epi's alignment based on SVS' remarks. It seems she only said he was bad once during the Eternal Night, and with very little reasoning given. I don't see that as cause for a frame-up or a kill to protect Epi.

Stance against the Epi frame theory. (Which the more I think about that theory the more ridiculous it is imo)

I'm not sure why people are trying to figure out Epi's alignment based on SVS' remarks. It seems she only said he was bad once during the Eternal Night, and with very little reasoning given. I don't see that as cause for a frame-up or a kill to protect Epi.

What do you think, DF? Was she bad, was she good? Who killed her?

I was inclined to think bad before the NK, and I'm rather unsure at this point. I'm not ruling out that she was killed by her team, since that's more plausible than you seem to think.

I think DB makes a good point about Matt wanting to know about the Night phases, and as Matt doesn't seem interested in defending himself, I'll go ahead and *vote Matt*

Defends the idea that SVS could be scum. Votes Matt.

Drum, the situation is different here. In the game I referenced, LongCon was all but confirmed as bad, and he was going to get lynched the next day. SVS was still a huge question mark.

The same thing happened in WWE Mafia, when the lynch outcome was not at all clear. This situation reminds me a lot of that one, which is why I'm not discounting that possibility.

WWE Meta further defending the SVS might be scum theory, which is still an unpopular opinion.

Sorry Matt.

Fluffy.

Day 0:
Mechanics: 1
Content: 1

After
Content: 14
Defense: 1
Mechanics: 1
Fluff: 1

I think DFaraday looks pretty good. Took concrete stances on a lot of things, and many of them in my opinion were not safe opinions. Very high content ratio. Strongly civ reading this guy.

My rating:
9/10

(Also this is taking longer than I thought. Damn.)

[Turnip Head]

@ TH's new philosphy - I like Enrique too, but even civs can be way wrong about their suspicions (lol @ me and matt). Vote for yourself, because in the end you are responsible for it. Sheeping is the worst.

I'm fine with claiming responsibility for my vote today.

[DrumBeats]

Mafia, why'd you guys have to kill 3J, his help would have been so nice on this

enrique ISO

Spoiler: show

Going with the underdog here.

Mechanics/Fluff day 0.

@sig

maybe my suspicion of matt suspecting other people because they suspected him for suspecting SVS but was really just trying to get a reaction is just me trying to get a reaction from other people to see if i can suspect them.

-2.924765 sig

i love this style of gameplay. literally anything i do can be handwaved away for "trying to be game solvey and get a reaction!"

yay for no consequences!

baddie

Stance on INH day 0. No reasoning though.

Votes are changeable, LoRab.

Mechanics, day 0.

Omg I'm so faded rigght noow my friends, but I'm going to reply anyway...

LISTEN.

haha.

So in a recent game by the name of Transistor, I did a similar maneuver at the beginning of the game, I called out niju/Bloops for being the PROCESS and was met with the same criticisms and defenses I've been seeing here.

"Oh snap, why just randomize susses on Day Zero/Day One HOW DARE YOU?"

Then I had to proceed to tell the towwn, honestly, that I was just effin' around and just wanted to get a reaction. Unfortunately, I had to lay this out before niju/BLOOPS even had a chance to respond and when she did, she aleready knew I was effin' aroun d so it was no thin gfor her.

when I lay out a suss, and TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE rush to the defense of said suss WHEN said suss is clearly visible in the thread and can respond for herself, THAT SHIT IS SUSSPICIIIIIIIIIOUS.

I'm not saying Scotty and FS are both bad, but I'm going to give myself a 50% chance that T LEAST one of the two are bad, and I'm guessing it's SPLINTER.

yup.

Where does this leave SVS?

Interrogating Matt Day 0.

I feel like you're the one who wanted to make Day 1 about me, timmer. But even so, let's do it. I'll do a good job of it.

You guys move fast. What am I supposed to take from this exchange? Where's the meat? Where did you think you were headed with... any of it, really? Where did you land?

Interrogating Quin.

Shit, I thought this ended today, I'm so sorry. I'm not caught up yet but expect more content from me soon.

Fluff

Guys I feel awful but I haven't even caught up with pretty much anything since Day 1. I tried reading INH and JJJ's massive walls of texts but my brain's just not in it. I've been getting the worst vibes from INH since the beginning of the game and agree with whoever said it looks like he's trying to discredit everyone else, and while he's obviously frustrated in his response, I can't tell if it's from getting nailed or simply misunderstood. Whichever it is, that whole discussion seemed ridiculously over the top.

I'm not gonna quit this game like I did Battle of the Hosts. I'm just in need of a small mental healh break. I'll be home in a few days, which will hopefully help me freshen up a little. Right now I'm just lost.

Fluff

I can only say what I would do if I was in this position. For now I'm going to assume there is only one baddie team because it says they kill every night, and most two-mafia setups will rotate the kill. The other variables:

• I am a baddie with the power to end at least one Day phase early.
• I may or may not know Quin's role and the benefit it would bring me by lynching him.
• There were two deaths on Night 2, indicating that Andy has either used his one-time ability or there is another third party killer.
• It is Day 3 in a 30 (?) player game.

Given all this, I would absolutely not vote early, end the Day early, in order to take out 2 civilians. Why?

I can feel reasonably safe that my power will not get taken out at Night, if Andy has no more kills left.

I can feel reasonably confident that Quin will not be killed at Night because I am on the only baddie team.

That means that I can use this ability any time during the game, and am in no rush to sacrifice myself to use it this early.

I can save my power for much later in the game when it will cause a bigger tempo swing, perhaps even sealing a victory for my team before the civilians have a chance to crucify me.

Using this power now indicates that I do not feel the need to use it defensively, ergo no one on my team is in danger of being lynched soon... but this will absolutely change if I use this ability in this way, and now I've wasted my only chance to prevent it.




The only time I would use this power on Day 3 is if I can use it more than once, or if, in using it, I will implicate players who are not on my team.

This is not SVS's first rodeo, and she knows how powerful such an ability is. While lynching Quin eventually is a priority for the baddies, this was the least impactful way they could use this ability, and that's not her style.

I would argue that implicating SVS in the lynch is a much better gambit than SVS implicating herself.

I missed you.

DrumBeats, what drums do you use?

Fluff

How about this for something completely different:

I'm not a townie.

I'm independent. I've been approved to say that.

Townies: lynching me does not help you win this game.

Baddies: killing me does not help you win this game.

Just leave me be and I'll play Mafia in peace.

Y'all should call me Prisoner 509378.

Before 80 people ask the same question: "Why did you decide to reveal this now, JJJ?"

~ Because these repeated night phases terrify me. If I am one of those poor people who is slaughtered, I'm screwed.

Vague content, but it at least seems to be a stance on 3J after the indy claim.

Holly – Holly is just as weird as Michael, but more balanced. If she is killed, two days will follow. If she is lynched, two nights will follow.

I know I am way behind and perhaps this has already been said, but judging from that role, I would call Holly a civ. why are we calling her bad?

Like, can no one else think that maybe SVS put in her vote, and there was a baddie around who ended the day early just to set up SVS in case Quin came back good?

Has that crossed no one's mind? Deerp.

"In case Quin came back good?" You're bad, aren't you Matt? If the baddies ended the day on Quin who was civ, then I'm sure they knew how Quin would flip, seeing as how she was not on their team.

Lol. I see the irony btw of me sticking up for SVS against very new and recent accusations that I should give her time to answer herself.

-1 to Matt

Yeah, that was going to be my next thought, why give her answers, let her defend herself. Is it because you know how she will flip and you are trying to buy some civ cred?

Does anyone else want to give SVS the benefit of the doubt here? I mean, you don't think she'd be a little more subtle about outright killing a civilian?

I'd like to keep the discussion going on more than her, because I'm not sold she is responsible.

But I am looking at JJJ and Drumbeats for immediately jumping on her as 100% bad.

So much this. For two guys who analyze the shit out of everything and everyone, you jumped to quick and certain conclusions here.

On reading further I see now that Jay did come the conclusion based on analysis. I'm just not sure I agree with the conclusion, but I can see where his thinking is coming from, consider my suspicion slightly lessened.

I did not mean to use the word forcer; what I meant to say was day ender. That was a poor choice of words and I am half awake so not sure why I used that word.

I was not inclined to suspect you until this post. Civs don't usually feel that concerned about their choice of words as much as baddies do, are you afraid you let something slip you shouldn't have?

SVS's role could might as well be a townie role. Erin's role to stop a lynch is almost the opposite of this role.

SVS, do you deny the allegations?

I deny them categorically. I am not on any team. I did not knowingly have anything to do with Quins death. Doing what I did would be the stupidest move in the world on my part if I knew what was going to happen.

Would ANY of you have done that knowingly?

But I am okay with getting lynched if need be. I think the town could gain some benefit from it.

I find this mildly concerning as well, everyone is on a team unless they are independent, are you claiming independent? This looks a bit like an attempt to cheat an LD. I would only say mildly concerning though because it is followed by another statement that would seem less likely to be able to cheat an LD...

I am appalled that anyone thinks I am enough of an idiot to do this. I mean, I can be an idiot, but I am a player whose best use to a bad team is via manipulation & talking in thread, not out of self sacrifice. But whatevs, if you want to lynch me Drum, go for it. You will be dissappointed if you really expect me to flip bad.

Also, re the use of the word "forced"; has it occurred to you that I am not allowed to directly say I was targeted?

What other factual checkable statement would you like me to make?

Linki @Faraday, what do you think of my factual remarks? We have 2 nights in a row for Pam to check me. What factual questions would you like to ask me?

Here is the sticking point for me, this kind of play would be out of character for SVS. She is super careful about not revealing her identity through times she posts and who might see her and so forth. In BSG she would barely ever post as Cavil in our chat thread because she knew mods can see who is online, even when invisible. We don't use it to our advantage, but she knew I could see it so rather than risk possibly giving anything away, she rarely even posted until she knew I was on her team. And SVS is not one to go against her meta, especially where caution is concerned. I know this is something that people can change up, but I don't see this being something she would ever WANT to change up for any reason. She is fairly risk averse and doesn't sacrifice a teammate unless she has to. I can't reconcile that to the theory put forward here.

Another thought:

~ The advantage gained for the baddies in this situation is diminished some if there are multiple baddie teams (assuming the Syndicate norm for alternating night kills is maintained). The baddies in general enjoy an advantage, but the individual teams not as much. Indeed they might threaten one another additionally in this situation. I think the leetic/Elohcin kills might be a sign of multiple baddie teams -- I thought they both leaned toward the side of badness, perhaps even as team mates.

I disagree, I think we have a baddie team and a SK (probably Scranton Strangler)

I think DB jumping on SVS right out of the gate is opportunism. I acknowledge that literally anyone could have done it, but his doing so and his continual push that she is definitely bad has me thinking the opposite.

I'll let DB answer to the accusation of opportunism, as well as the other things you've asserted. I'll propose a separate point:

I see culture clash. A few Syndicateers see this and their instinctive reaction is "why the eff would a baddie ever do this?"

That's not my reaction at all. I was brought up elsewhere. DB was brought up elsewhere, and Bulbagarden's games are a lot more like RYM's than they are like The Syndicate's. I think that breeds a certain type of player base, and where he comes from I bet this stuff isn't so absurd as some people here seem to think it is. On RYM this wouldn't even be a surprising gambit, it'd be ordinary.

I can understand the benefit and acknowledge the possibility in theory, I can't see it being something SVS would ever do though. She isn't from RYM Or Bulbagarden, andante is something that comes very difficult to SVS especially when they are deeply held ideas like her cautious tendencies.

Conclusion to my massive post:
I don't suspect SVS
I do suspect Matt
I don't suspect Drumbeats or Jay atm.

Getting on a plane now, voting Christmas.

This post feels concerningly diplomatic. Everyone, you're right but you're wrong. I don't suspect you, but I could. This is a problem, but not for me. That and the use cliches such as "civs don't care about their words!" and "everyone is on a team" makes me worried that this post is more about itself than it is about any of the people being discussed. It's just... predictable and vapid.

Unique stance on Spacedaisy, which is nice.

Goodbye JJJ

JJJ has been killed.
It is now Night 3.2. You have 24 hours to get your PMs in.

I mean, RIP.

Fluff

How about this for something completely different:

I'm not a townie.

I'm independent. I've been approved to say that.

Townies: lynching me does not help you win this game.

Baddies: killing me does not help you win this game.

Just leave me be and I'll play Mafia in peace.

Y'all should call me Prisoner 509378.

Before 80 people ask the same question: "Why did you decide to reveal this now, JJJ?"

~ Because these repeated night phases terrify me. If I am one of those poor people who is slaughtered, I'm screwed.

Well that's fun. I've seen first-hand in the game I hosted how helpful you can be to the town as an independent, so I'm comfortable leaving you alone for now. Hopefully more roles will become available and we can piece together what you are in the coming nights. After we lynch a few mafia, I'm going to entertain lynching you.

@ linki Matt - Lol @ Baseless. You have both provided plenty of reason for me to believe you're a baddie duo. I don't think voting Christmas is relevant at all to you and Scotty being buddies, but I'm still pretty sure you are.

Whyfore again? Just the bullet points please. I'm sorry - I'm a crap player who has limited time and honestly won't go back and reread. I know it's a thing I can't remember the deets. If it peaks my interest I will dig in more.

linki- stuff blowing up and I still am prolly 3 pages behind. I'm terminally in crackberry mode. lol.

Gonna try to speed this before update in case I'm dead.

- Day 0/1 Matt focusses on FS over Scotty despite suspecting both for same thing.

- Day 1 Matt considers voting for Goldy due to a suspicion on Scotty, rather than just voting Scotty.

- Day 2 Scotty questions if Matt has been silenced way early in the day (though he wasn't in the end so this one wasn't that big)

Post more in a sec if I'm alive, I think it's about update time and wanted to get this started.

- Day 2 I was trying to make a Scotty push, and Matt tossed out a throwaway vote on fingersplints. The night after, he began to suggest a Scotty lynch the following day. Looks like distancing imo, because why would Matt not be willing to vote Scotty with me Day 2 if the suspicion was legitimate?

- A minor one, but both players jumped to SVS's defense incredibly fast.

Some of this case is more of individual reads on them as well that make me think each is mafia by themselves too.

- Matt tried to dispel my whole argument about his willingness to vote Goldy over being suspicious of Scotty as a lie due to me using the word "likely" instead of the actual word "maybe". Discrediting the argument based on one word rather than answering it.

- Scotty has placed nothing but inactive player votes, despite his early-game comment of wanting to learn more based on how our lynches flip. First vote was for Goldy, who had zero posts, and his second vote was for leetic, who had in the single digits. He then after leetic died, assumed leetic was mafia, and was confident enough to build a case on me based upon an assumption of an inactive player's allegiance post death, so basically a roll of a dice.

This is all very good. Scotty focusing on inactive players is completely in character for him, but I also thought the assumption that leetic was bad was a huge stretch and definitely not something you can base a whole different case on.

My experience with Matt is he's zany but he's also usually bad. Now watch him stubbornly defend his votes and never come back to Scotty again.

Light stance against Scotty, and a null one on Matt.

I am of the opinion that 3J was bad.

Who among you was going to mount the charge against him?

Required reading.

I'm going hunting for his teammates.

As a player in that game I don't necessarily see the similarities. How do you suppose he died last night then if you think he is mafia?

I thought he was bad though.

lol

I didn't feel good about him but I wouldn't go as far as to assume he *had to be* bad. He died last night so yeah that's a pretty good look for him I'd think.

Stance on post-mortem 3J.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that if a baddie were making that play, they wouldn't know when the complete list of roles would be revealed. And by that point, maybe the waters would be muddied enough that the damage would have been done. Let's say that there IS a civilian forced on even nights, and forced a BAD SVS to vote Quin, they would know Quin is bad so they could hide behind the premise that a) SVS would never do that as bad and b) there is a civilian vote forcer that forced her, so it's really out of her hands.

I think it's a hard road right now to come back from without complete WIFOM.

So you think that she was forced by a civilian to vote a certain way, and instead of just doing that and not arousing suspicion, she also forced the lynch to end early, shining the spotlight solely in her direction... while simultaneously hoping that the baddie vote forcer she knows exists will be revealed after the civvie vote forcer she also knows exists, her very life depending on this gamble. Also you're assuming that SVS knew Quin was bad even though he was revealed as a civilian role? Maybe that part was a typo.

I'm so lost as to what people think SVS's motive is here. I guess we think she wants to be lynched.

Someone please walk me through this from point A to point B.

The way I see it, SVS trying to pull this off would be ridiculous, because it'd be so much easier to just... you know... not do it.

Pro-SVS stance. Less risky to take, but he provides unique reasons for his stance which is nice.

I can only say what I would do if I was in this position. For now I'm going to assume there is only one baddie team because it says they kill every night, and most two-mafia setups will rotate the kill. The other variables:

• I am a baddie with the power to end at least one Day phase early.
• I may or may not know Quin's role and the benefit it would bring me by lynching him.
• There were two deaths on Night 2, indicating that Andy has either used his one-time ability or there is another third party killer.
• It is Day 3 in a 30 (?) player game.

Given all this, I would absolutely not vote early, end the Day early, in order to take out 2 civilians. Why?

I can feel reasonably safe that my power will not get taken out at Night, if Andy has no more kills left.

I can feel reasonably confident that Quin will not be killed at Night because I am on the only baddie team.

That means that I can use this ability any time during the game, and am in no rush to sacrifice myself to use it this early.

I can save my power for much later in the game when it will cause a bigger tempo swing, perhaps even sealing a victory for my team before the civilians have a chance to crucify me.

Using this power now indicates that I do not feel the need to use it defensively, ergo no one on my team is in danger of being lynched soon... but this will absolutely change if I use this ability in this way, and now I've wasted my only chance to prevent it.




The only time I would use this power on Day 3 is if I can use it more than once, or if, in using it, I will implicate players who are not on my team.

This is not SVS's first rodeo, and she knows how powerful such an ability is. While lynching Quin eventually is a priority for the baddies, this was the least impactful way they could use this ability, and that's not her style.

I would argue that implicating SVS in the lynch is a much better gambit than SVS implicating herself.

I missed you.

DrumBeats, what drums do you use?

Hello Mr. I Haven't Posted Since Tuesday.

What do you think of...anything?

I have opinions.

I know Michael and Dwight are like, the main characters, so likely civ. Who are Gabe and Ryan and why would they be bad?

Fluff

SD. I had second thoughts about that word, but what I meant is that it came off shallow and disingineuous (artificial, fabricated, whatever). It just looks like it's trying to check every box, you know? You have considered this and that, but arrived at [inoffensive conclusion]. Yeah you go through a whole justification process, but the whole time it looks like you KNOW where you're going. One second 3J and DB are suspicious, and you immediately let them off the hook. You nitpick SVS' posts, but it never looks like you're steering from "SVS would never do that". It feels redundant, like the post only exists for reference and not because you care what the outcome is.

I don't know, and I recognize I could be wrong, but that's what it looked like to me. Sorry I was a dick about it, I'm just tryna' catch some baddies.

Apologetic post to SD, but also further clarifying the suspicion.

voted gabe and other bc yea

Night-vote

Night 3.2 - A Mexican Stand Off

SVS has been killed.
It is now Day 4. You have 48 hours to find a baddie.

LOL the baddies really got a sense of humor

Fluff

Also TurnipHead. His constant defense of SVS reminds me of AWR when we had quite a few circumstantial pieces of evidence that SVS was bad and he still refused to believe it. (She was bad, so were TH and I, on the opposite team, ftr). I'll be keeping an eye on him for now, if SVS were lynched and came back civ he would jump up to #1 for me.

I forgot to respond to this. I don't really understand the connection you're drawing. I'm sure I've defended SVS just as often as I've accused her, I'm probably batting .500. I feel okay about your motives though so feel free to keep an eye on me

It means I question your ability to read SVS and I feel like you lean civ on her a bit more than is warranted.

ripiywg SVS... it's not unheard of for the mafia to kill one of their own. Especially if they thought she would be getting lynched today, plus it saves her team from having to defend her. And it makes everyone go WTF.

It's not?

Questioning the SVS might be scum theory, which is a reasonable reaction.

Also TurnipHead. His constant defense of SVS reminds me of AWR when we had quite a few circumstantial pieces of evidence that SVS was bad and he still refused to believe it. (She was bad, so were TH and I, on the opposite team, ftr). I'll be keeping an eye on him for now, if SVS were lynched and came back civ he would jump up to #1 for me.

I forgot to respond to this. I don't really understand the connection you're drawing. I'm sure I've defended SVS just as often as I've accused her, I'm probably batting .500. I feel okay about your motives though so feel free to keep an eye on me

It means I question your ability to read SVS and I feel like you lean civ on her a bit more than is warranted.

ripiywg SVS... it's not unheard of for the mafia to kill one of their own. Especially if they thought she would be getting lynched today, plus it saves her team from having to defend her. And it makes everyone go WTF.

Pressed send too quickly. These theories around SVS are insane. Her team could just... not defend her... and just get her lynched instead of wasting a kill. It's moot now but wha???

Fully questioning the validity of the theory. Part of me isn't a fan of this, as it feels like he is trying to invalidate the idea and shut down discussion on it.

I'm not sure why people are trying to figure out Epi's alignment based on SVS' remarks. It seems she only said he was bad once during the Eternal Night, and with very little reasoning given. I don't see that as cause for a frame-up or a kill to protect Epi.

What do you think, DF? Was she bad, was she good? Who killed her?

Scratch the last part about trying to shut down discussion. Actively promotes discussion despite finding the idea ridiculous. Better look now imo.

I'm curious as to whether heavily suspecting a player before they are night killed is a civ look or a bad look. In SVS' case, Drumbeats drove that tunnel home. (JJJ did to an extent as well. In JJJ's case he claimed indie, which I'm choosing to believe)

But i think it's a smart move to be an antagonist of someone right up until the edge of the night so that when that player is killed you can throw up your arms and go "woah! I'm sorry guys, I was totally wrong!" It gives you more options to lynch the next day. Plus, those people that were defending her civiness look worse.

What I can't understand (and I thought about it last night) is why on satan's red earth as a baddie you would kill a prime lynch candidate. My BIGGEST suspicion of Drumbeats was predicated on the assumption that SVS was civ, and now we can't know for sure. But I strongly think she was civ.

It might be confirmation bias at this point, so I'd like other people's opinion on this. We still don't know if she was forced to vote Quin, or who forced her, but I have this nagging feeling that Drumbeats set up SVS to get lynched by jumping right on her after the Quin lynch as confirmed bad.

Or maybe you're setting me up for a mislynch by killing SVS so you can claim she's a civ? I tunneled SVS because I was, and still am, relatively sure she was mafia. I've detailed my reasoning on this about a thousand times, so if you find any of it disengenuine feel free to point it out. From what I've heard, the reasoning for killing ScumVS is actually more sound than a civilian SVS, but I do agree that both are possible right now.

This is the second time that you have based a suspicion on me on an unknown alignment of a nightkill. I'm starting to think that you have more information than you are letting on about their alignments

Explain in your own words.

Pressing me for info about the SVS thing. Same thoughts as above with his questioning DFaraday.

Does she have to be bad for any of that?

Another valid point pro SVS=civ. One thing I am wondering is that Enrique has seemed to post more about SVSGate than anything else at this point. Feels a bit disproportionate imo.

Okay, seriously, how ridiculous is this? It's on par with Golden saying I threw Nero under the bus in Arkham. Some people actually believe this:

SVS is part of a baddie team~ said team has the power to end one day early, and they find out that killing Quin will give them two nights of funsies. Only a few minutes into the say, SVS takes matters into her own hands (because she doesn't want to play anymore? do we have any indication of that?) and decises, on day frickin three of the game, to pull some stupid manouver to out herself that early into the game. The argument is, well, she can still talk her way out of it or play it as a setup... right? Haha no they decide the best way to spend their extra kill is on her In two nights and a day, two civs and a baddie died. So that's... completely standard. They get absolutely nothing out of it. "But it throws the town off".

While, you know, THEY COULD HAVE KAMIKAZEED QUIN AT ANY TIME, AND NOT KILL THEIR TEAMMATE.

I can hardly trust anyone who is framing it differently. It's not some huge complicated issue. They killed a civvie because that's their job, and having the pick of people to blame for it is only an extra.

Seems to be genuinely frustrated about the SVS theories. I don't like the bottom statement discrediting those who are considering the alternative, but I will see if that is brought up further.

oh christ sorry for all the typos ive been catching up in my spare minutes between leaving my plain, going through customs, checking baggage etc and getting on a bus

Next 2-3 hours should be gucci.

Fluff

plane jfc lol

Correcting a previous post.

Okay, seriously, how ridiculous is this? It's on par with Golden saying I threw Nero under the bus in Arkham. Some people actually believe this:

SVS is part of a baddie team~ said team has the power to end one day early, and they find out that killing Quin will give them two nights of funsies. Only a few minutes into the say, SVS takes matters into her own hands (because she doesn't want to play anymore? do we have any indication of that?) and decises, on day frickin three of the game, to pull some stupid manouver to out herself that early into the game. The argument is, well, she can still talk her way out of it or play it as a setup... right? Haha no they decide the best way to spend their extra kill is on her In two nights and a day, two civs and a baddie died. So that's... completely standard. They get absolutely nothing out of it. "But it throws the town off".

While, you know, THEY COULD HAVE KAMIKAZEED QUIN AT ANY TIME, AND NOT KILL THEIR TEAMMATE.

I can hardly trust anyone who is framing it differently. It's not some huge complicated issue. They killed a civvie because that's their job, and having the pick of people to blame for it is only an extra.

The only thing is that if they killed their scummate, it would never be revealed that she was scum.

The fact that it has apparently happened before makes me think it might happen again here. Do I think that for certain? No. But do I think it is worth considering? Yes. And we can find the answer later, through what the role list reveals. If there is a method by which SVS's vote could have been forced, SVS is likely a civ. If not, then there is no reason a civilian SVS would have had a forced vote, and thus SVS would likely be mafia.

My thought : Why argue over what alignment SVS is right now, when:
1) She's already dead.
2) It will be revealed in time due to the role list in the OP.

Let's focus on lynching baddies, who are your top suspects enrique?

Also @ Serge - I see the ghost vote. Explain it please.

EVERYONE

bea, th and timmer the least of all

I'm a liiittle hesitant about the Matt lynch because if you've played with him before you know he's very... unorthodox. I can see where it comes from and I'm not gonna oppose it, but lemme drop a little vote on Sorsha. She actually seems to be taking advantage of the (artificial) ambiguity around SVS' death to back away from TH no questions asked. She was never proved wrong, but now that SVS is gone we can forget every related case aye?

Stance on Sorsha, hesitant to take a stance on Matt, and light either suspicion or defense, I cant tell which, on bea, timmer, and TH.

Yes, but at this point in time I don't have any reason to suspect him. If things had gone differently, I would have.

Convenient, isn't it?

Pressing Sorsha

Serge did you have info for last night's poll?

Unsure what to make of this one. Nothing ever really came from it imo.

Is Serge bad?

*shakes magic 8ball*

Something feels off, but his moves come off really aggressive for a baddie don't they? The poll was I'd say pretty intentionally ambiguous, so how can you base your whole game on who voted what option? Well, here's a possibility: he has info, just... not from the poll.

Serge do you wanna elaborate on why you chose Epignosis?

Defense and pushes that Serge may have info, which is a neat approach that I like. I will keep that possibility in mind when I ISO Serge.

I don't think it's hypocritical at all. I was trying to get my top suspect lynched and he flipped civ. I told you to put the low poster thing on pause because I thought you were redirecting from Matt. That has been shown to be false. What's the problem

I don't get it either. Matt was your suspect, and supposedly Scotty's too, of course you'd prioritize him over any low poster. I didn't read your second post as saying "oh ya imma kill me some low posters!", but rather, it frustrates you to have little to work with... and that's perfectly normal. I don't like being put in that category, but come on, no one likes low posters. There's nothing hypocritical about telling Scotty to focus on what's in front of him instead of deflecting with non-existent players.

He joked about it, and while I do still find Sorsha sus, this is Epignosis harping on an inconsistency. He doesn't have to be bad, but do watch out for this sort of nitpicky manipulative behavior. It's not a great look.

Defense of TH with a light Epi suspicion.

what

Floof

Why do we fall, yung Turnip?

Fluff

lmao i'm taking adhd meds now so that might be a part of it

Fluff

I will vote for timmer.

Why is this happening?

Questioning the timmer wagon.

Day 0:
Mechanics/Fluff: 2
Content: 2

After:
Content: 19
Fluff: 9
Night-vote only: 1
Correcting grammar: 1
Unsure how to classify: 1

I feel fine about enrique. He has offered a few very strong opinions on topics, and only has a moderate amount of fluff, which usually comes all at once in a way that feels organic. One thing I have noticed is that Enrique has done a lot of defending other people, and focussed very heavily on the SVS is civ after death discussion, which feels a bit disproportionate to the rest of his posts imo. For the most part though, I feel pretty good about enrique, I'd say I civ read him.

My rating:
7/10

Questions:
Do you suspect bea, timmer, and TH or are they your town reads?
Now that there are only 6 unrevealed roles and no explanation, do you believe it is possible that SVS's vote was not forced and could be scum?

[bea]

i'm gonna be drerfunk about my vote today.

and still say it might yet be well placed..

[Serge]

@DrumBeats absolutely nothing? Just get rid of me.

[Serge]

Yeah, I'm not going to do anything anymore since I'm doing absolutely nothing anyway. I try to help as best as I can, and I guess me and Mafia don't fit. Good luck, everyone.

[Serge]

Lynch me so Dom won't need to find a replacement. Also, I guess this will be much more help than me being in the game anyway.

[DrumBeats]

@ Serge - I didn't mean that rude at all, I just saw that your post count was high but I couldn't remember a distinct contribution, sorry if it offended you at all, I definitely didn't mean that. I meant that the post count and what I'm remembering from you conflict, so it definitely warrants a closer look imo.

[DrumBeats]

fingersplints ISO:

Spoiler: show

I am choosing Personnel because it reminds me of my favorite episode. In Stress Relief, Michael teaks Dwight that he is taking a "personnel" day instead of a "personal" day after the office makes fun of Michael in a professional roast.

Mechanics/fluff. Day 0.

SVS - How come you posted a possible role list for this game which shows Corporate as bad guys and then go on to vote for Management in the poll?

Management is also listed under civilians....

Mechanical defense for SVS.

These are all the civvie bosses:

The Office
There's Been A Murder¡

All powers secret.

Civilians (19):
Michael
Jim
Dwight
Pam
Ryan - Former VP
Stanley
Phyllis
Andy
Angela
Creed - acting manager - 1 episode
Kelly
Kevin
Darryl
Meredith
Oscar
Erin
Holly
Toby
Nellie

More mechanics, but it is day 0 so it's fair. We'll see if it continues later.

+1 to SVS for ignoring me as a good civvie should do

-1 to FS and Scotty for rushing to her defense w/o letting her answer first.

I'm not defending her. I'm answering theme related questions.

-10 to Matt for trying to dissuade people from voting option for clearly false reasons.

Self-defense and a NO U on Matt.

SVS - I'm trying to rack my brain for "memo" related references atm. I can only think of a few and both aren't great for that option. If I switch it would be to management.

Flavor/Mechanics.

-1 to FS for highlighting Creed as a "boss" to somehow justify her point

He was a boss. I even specified one episode. I didn't try to mislead anyone like you are attempting to do.

+1 to SVS for ignoring me as a good civvie should do

-1 to FS and Scotty for rushing to her defense w/o letting her answer first.

Lol so a good civvie should ignore you in general? Got it

Linki: splints, how many episodes have you seen?

Every episode. Dozens of times. I'm also a big Mindy Kaling fan, and I've read both her books in which she talks about bts writing/producing office stuff.

Defense/Fluff combo.

And Matt I wouldn't need to justify it with Creed. My point was made with one person.

Flavor defense against Matt

Sorry guys, I'm a bit preoccupied at the moment and haven't given the game any thought. Things are crazy today here in London.

I don't know what to think about Matt. I'll try to formulate what I'm thinking there ASAP. I obviously don't agree with some of his ideas he is putting out there, but I haven't quite decided if its suspicious or just standard Matt.

It's Mindy Kaling's birthday today btw.

Fluff. No longer day 0.

Sorry I missed the vote! I don't have time to read anything right now. Voting accounting. I like that trio.

Night-vote.

Epi, I think you have a point about Matt. I didn't like Matt's day 0 interactions, but I have a hard time articulating my thoughts without it seeming a bit "no u"ish.

I'm sad rabbit died without me getting a chance to vote him. I'd consider voting for Matt, but for the time being I'm going to vote leetic for now. I haven't played any Mafia this year, and I'm scared of getting modkilled for missing votes.

Suspicion thrown at Matt, but it is only in agreement with Epi's opinion.

If Matt is bad I think this also looks bad for Scotty:

@Matt Are you silenced? Where have you been?

It's really early in the day to be calling someone out for being silenced? It could be he knows he is silenced and trying to draw attention to it.

Brings up an original point against Matt-Scotty duo over Scotty's suspicion that Matt was silenced.

hi JJJ and espers! Your predecessors were more silent than the 30th president of the USA. Thanks for being vocal!

My favorite one, since someone asked for more politics.

You never answered my post about why you would vote me over splints when Matt asked you. Can you pls?

Matt is my number one suspect. He named two suspects but clung to fingersplints. I say he and Scotty are teammates.

That doesn't really answer my question. why do you think we're teammates?
I will say that when we were Mafia together on Lost-again, Matt went bananas trying to get our own teammate, Bullz, lynched day 1. But that is not the case with me and him, I can assure you. I think Matt is just bad and that's it.

If Matt is bad I think this also looks bad for Scotty:

@Matt Are you silenced? Where have you been?

It's really early in the day to be calling someone out for being silenced? It could be he knows he is silenced and trying to draw attention to it.

eyyyyy I'm glad we both are contemplating that Matt is bad.
Why is it too early to be calling someone out for not posting? How are we to know the terms of silencing? He hasn't posted since before the day 1 lynch, where he threw a vote on me and slid down hi escape slide.. That's a long time. So as a courtesy I want to know if he's silenced before I place a vote down on him without a proper defense.

Would you currently vote for Matt, since you seem to be contemplating it and aren't so concerned with his silencing?

@Dom is it possible to get that lovely Post History chart JJJ made stickied in the first page por favor?

I think most often silencing is a night action, and the person is silenced the following day only. Most frequently, imo, but not always. So that's why it seems weird to me for you to be saying someone is silenced hours into the start of a day. That combined with Matt pushing me over you look bad for you. I'm not one to say someone is definitely bad based on someone else until I am sure of that person. I don't regularly like to vote a silenced person unless I feel strong about it. I like to give people a chance to defend when possible. I have seen others say this too. And I have also seen baddies manipulate this by silencing one of their own in trouble. (Either real or pretend silenced)

So yes I am considering Matt. I am considering you. But I'll keep my vote where it is right now.

More original points about the Scotty-Matt duo.

I am voting for accounting and corporate. There are no departments in the office called Payroll or Receiving.

Night-vote.

Sorry forgot to say RIP bwt. I'm sorry I've been not as involved. I'll try to look at the people who voted him tomorrow and see if there are any red flags.

I still think Matt is bad, and I think him and Scotty are distancing. It does really seem like Matt chose me over Scotty to focus on, and Scotty's suspicion of him only really started after Epi called this out. (If I remember the timing correctly.) It also always makes me a little wary when someone says something like "but I suspected him" if that somehow clears them in a game with frequently multiple factions. Don't know. I need to form opinions on more people. As of right now Epi sounds most civvie to me, but I don't want to let agreeing with him cloud my judgement. I also think 3J, indi, and someone else I don't know (maybe DrumBeats? sarge? Maybe both) sound civvie. I agree with I think it was 3J that some of SVS seem off (about GTH reads) but I don't think it makes her bad. I don't think she would follow that line of questioning if bad. I can't see anything gained by it.

More against Matt. Also provides civ reads.

Corporate. Possibility of more characters there. Accounting is always a maximum of 3 people. Plus, those characters are more likely to be bad story wise.

I forgot to say... Why all the Gabe hate? He isn't my favorite by any means, but I don't think he is that bad. I've really gainedan appreciation for some of the side characters on repeat viewings.
I saw an episode of that Silicon Valley show and I think the actor was funny there too.

Night-vote.

Corporate. Possibility of more characters there. Accounting is always a maximum of 3 people. Plus, those characters are more likely to be bad story wise.

I forgot to say... Why all the Gabe hate? He isn't my favorite by any means, but I don't think he is that bad. I've really gainedan appreciation for some of the side characters on repeat viewings.
I saw an episode of that Silicon Valley show and I think the actor was funny there too.

I completely forgot his name Whenever I think of him all I can think of this that episode where he, Toby and Kelly all wore skeleton costumes.

Fluff

Receiving is Daryl, if he hasn't moved above yet. Maybe Pam's old boyfriend too?

Warehouse workers. I don't think they are ever referred to as "receiving" though. Dunder Mifflin mainly ships product out.

Mechanics speculation.

I'm starting to wonder if it's maybe something else, because I can't place who would be under payroll.

Mechanics speculation

Though Holly was one of the sweetest person in The Office, I have to say

Her personality is like a 3. Her sense of humor is a 2. Her ears are like a 7 and a 4. Add it all up and what do you get? 16. And he treats her like she's a perfect 40. It's nuts.

RIP Quin

RIPIYWG Elo and leetic
Welcome new players! Bye nonplaying ones

Fluff

Judgment is nigh, for the belsnickel ist I!



German.

Fluff, but I want to say this was the night-vote option for the night. The German party.

ALSO,re framing, I am mega mega mega MEGA surprised that no one has tried to imply I was the one to kill Rabbit (or if they did I missed it). I know that when I kill someone when I am bad in order to frame another person, I NEVER bring it up myself. I wait for the civvies to bring it up under those circumstances. And there are a few people I would have expected to bring that point up. When Rabbit died I was waiting for it, and it did not come.

I'm satisfied with your vote explanation. But who are you referring to here? Now's not the time to pull your punches.

linki: And bea replies, the plot thickens...

I mean people who know me well enough to know Rabbit and I have a dynamic, but not what it is. Epi for one.

@bea, damn Skippy I wouldn't kill him. And you know it; fwiw I didn't mean you.

I don't think you are likely to kill rabbit N1, but I don't think that exonerates you either. If you were Mafia, you would have a whole team to answer for. It wouldn't be just your decision.
I've excused people for this before, and been burned. Actually, I'm pretty sure even the last game I played I gave you a pass for how I thought you'd act towards people and you were definitely bad.

Null stance on SVS, but discounts SVS's attempts to clear herself through the first death.

Sorry, almost forgot to say. JJJ I will miss your analysis and discussion

Fluff

Did SVS vote Day 2?

Asking for relevant clarification on SVS's vote for the vote forcer decision.

We need to learn Michael's role. He's pretty important, Andy will replace him so it's either a powerful role and will be alignment-indicative.

Hey Epignosis, you still have another vote you can cast. Why only choose Dwight who is almost sure to be civ?

When we don't have all the baddie roles revealed you think we should reveal the number 1 civvie? I don't think Michaels a wildcard at all. why would you even think this?

Sound mechanics discussion.

Yup!

That's why I voted Gabe and other. Gabe is basically Jo Bennet's (Mafia) assistant, and an enemy of Andy Bernard (civ), so likely bad.
I think the other baddies will be Jan, Robert California, maybe Charles.

I think SD had a good idea when she brought up the Scranton Strangler being a possible Indy. Not sure if it's right, but it would be a fun choice.

Mechanics discussion.

kk I'm srrsly honest on thisl.

TH- follow up because I'm sure I can't -

Lorab, indi, Spinltsy were all non voices in the eternal night of svs dying.

I'm not really sure what to make of this. Lorab did chime in, but like DrumBeats said it felt slightly forced; like she wanted to come down on the side of defending SVS so she came up with a reason to do so. I don't know indi well enough to guess how she would react. Splintsy seems a nonvoice altogether, not just in the SVS matter, so not sure what to make of that either. I'd certainly like to hear more from all 3 of them about what they want to do for today's lynch.

Perhaps splintsy would be more of a voice if there was some resolution to her Day 0 suspicion?

Defense, and a weak one at that imo. Why would no resolution to a day 0 suspicion lead to you having no voice about every other event in the game?

Do you understand where Bea is going? Why am I required to see SVS exactly as she does?

Pretty defensive post imo.

Also TurnipHead. His constant defense of SVS reminds me of AWR when we had quite a few circumstantial pieces of evidence that SVS was bad and he still refused to believe it. (She was bad, so were TH and I, on the opposite team, ftr). I'll be keeping an eye on him for now, if SVS were lynched and came back civ he would jump up to #1 for me.

I forgot to respond to this. I don't really understand the connection you're drawing. I'm sure I've defended SVS just as often as I've accused her, I'm probably batting .500. I feel okay about your motives though so feel free to keep an eye on me

It means I question your ability to read SVS and I feel like you lean civ on her a bit more than is warranted.

ripiywg SVS... it's not unheard of for the mafia to kill one of their own. Especially if they thought she would be getting lynched today, plus it saves her team from having to defend her. And it makes everyone go WTF.

Since it seems weird with all the attention, maybe she wasn't the intended target?

Oscar – Oscar is definitely not into the (state) senator. Oscar is pretty attentive to detail as an accountant and can change who someone targets each night.

Brings up a decent point that Oscar could've swapped the kill. I'm not sure though if that would be within Oscar's capabilities, but it is definitely possible.

Hey @Matt! What do you make of SVS dying? Would you join Drumbeats, myself and others in lynching you today?

I was just about to ask where your Matt suspicion went. You just paying lip service to it?

Convenient, isn't it?

Do you understand where Bea is going? Why am I required to see SVS exactly as she does?

I was thinking bea was concerned that you didn't give your take on SVS one way or the other, but looking back you did talk about it a little bit, and it seems you leaned toward believing SVS. Would you say that's accurate?

Maybe? Do you think she is trying to stir up suspicion of me or genuine?

Questioning if Scotty is avoiding Matt and if bea is trying to build suspicion of Splints.

Hey @Matt! What do you make of SVS dying? Would you join Drumbeats, myself and others in lynching you today?

I was just about to ask where your Matt suspicion went. You just paying lip service to it?

Convenient, isn't it?

Isn't what convenient?

Your "suspicion"? Do you not see how it could be perceived as distancing?

Calls Scotty out for distancing

I think I'm going to vote Matt now unless anyone sees a reason I should wait?

Vote

You're telling me we've had 4 days and 4 nights worth of discussion and you are still "uninformed" or have any "solid thoughts"?

We've had 4 full days and 4 nights of discussion???

I consider this fluff. Semantics doesn't change the meaning of Scotty's post here. It's been long enough, make an opinion.

Does anyone else get the feeling Scotty is trying to set up indi to save his teammate because she made it clear she won't be around?

Accusation on Scotty.

Damn. That sucks. RIP Matt. At least now I know and can move on.

I posted this online elsewhere, and will here too since it's fitting. Happy 4th to everyone back home.

Fluff

The question is probably "should we open more folders?"

So I'm not sure why people are voting no. Vote yes.

"No" people what do you think the question is. I'm tempted to vote no just because more votes are going there.

This:

Is Hilary Swank hot or not?

...is actually something they poll the whole office on. I think it's split 50/50, until Angela, who previously refused to vote on moral reasons, says Hilary's "hot as heck."

I think Rico meant it as an off topic joke, but it actually is fitting since Matt/Angela was just lynched.

Night-poll mechanics.

Fluff

indiglo ;( to answer your question anyways, I am not sure on Scotty. He moves down from number 2 on my suspicion list, because most of the suspicion was based off being Matts teammate, but it doesn't mean he is definitely good now. I'm still not getting the best vibes from him, but I need to look at some other people first.

I think the "no" voters consist of the scum team.

Why? Revealing roles would benefit baddies too. They want to see what the civvies are working with. Plus it seems pretty stupid for an entire team to vote the same way on a extremely vague night poll in my opinion. I don't see it, and this honestly makes me feel worse about you.

Backs off Scotty a bit. Jumps on Serge.

Michael has been killed? What? Also Dom, the poll says it should run for at least 50 minutes more, so I'm confuzzled.

I'm not sure what it's like where you normally play (if elsewhere) so usually here roles are revealed with lynches, not nightkills. So stuff in the night post is just for storytelling purposes only. She might be Michael, but it's probably Dom just liked the clip. I also thought I remembered seeing something about the night ending at 23 hours. That's honestly how I usually host games. I give the players 23 hours, and I get that last hour to prepare the post and everything. I don't know what happened here but could be something like that. It could also be Dom just had in all the night actions early, and wanted to post. hope that helps

Clarifies mechanics for Serge.

I think the "no" voters consist of the scum team.

Why? Revealing roles would benefit baddies too. They want to see what the civvies are working with. Plus it seems pretty stupid for an entire team to vote the same way on a extremely vague night poll in my opinion. I don't see it, and this honestly makes me feel worse about you.

If you look at the role list a ton of civ roles have been revealed. I'd rather we know what's happening than not. Why even vote folders and people in the previous night polls, then? I suspect Epignosis and I suspect Timmer to a lesser extent(lone post about Angela seems to be distancing from the civ lynch). Also, since we didn't know what the poll was for, they could vote with impunity.

@Dom did the night poll end with nothing happening because it's a draw or did you randomize the winning choice?

If you look at the role list a ton of baddie roles have been revealed... The point still stands the baddies would want to know the civvie roles too. I think you are pushing this way too much considering you claim to not have had info. Why are you assuming others did then?

This combined with you it seems like not realising until night 4 that a nightkill doesn't reveal a role. (The reason this bothers me is that it feels like "playing up" being new, so it looks like you don't have btsc)

I'm voting you for now while I look at a few others.

More mechanics discussion with Serge, but turns it into a suspicion with a bit of other reasons added.

I'm definitely not acting new. Weak sauce.

I don't think it's weak. I think it's possible. I've seen players win games by acting more confused than they actuall are. I personally have won games by acting more confused than I actually am. It allows players to lay low. I don't know for sure that is what you are doing... which is why I also answered your questions to help... But it does make me concerned. I'm not giving anyone a pass, and I need the revisit everyone.

There have been several weird kills that I'm still trying to make sense of. I know if I were bad, indiglo and SVS wouldn't have been top choices of mine given they had attention on them. It makes me wonder if it's they were on to something, a setup of someone, someone who knows them well (I'm looking at you sweet Bea ), or something else like target changing.

More against Serge and a promise to revisit everyone, that I frankly doubt will happen.

Weak sauce.

Says the guy who thinks he can nail mafia by night polls.

I'm voting either you or Sorsha today.

I'm more offended to be called acting. I have never feigned ignorance.

Vote me. You know you want to.

Why is this offensive? Someone is acting. That's the game.

Argument with Serge.

I'm also starting to grow worried about our under the radar players. DF, Enrique, INH, Daisy, timmer... these are all people I don't lean one way or the other on, and haven't looked closely at. Everyone is on the table as a suspect right now.

Most of them are usually under the radar players though. Not saying that makes them good, just not out of character. I think out of this list the most concerning to me are inh and timmer, who I remember being slightly more vocal usually.

Meta case on INH and timmer for the silence being usual from them.

Day 0:
Mechanics: 4
Defense: 3

After:
Content: 13
Fluff: 6
Night-vote: 4
Mechanics: 7
Vote Clarification: 1
Defense: 2
Vote: 1

I'm not feeling the best about Splints. Splints was tunnel-visioned on the Matt-Scotty duo from way early in the game, and clung to it relentlessly. There has been a lot of fluff and mechanics discussion, specifically about the night polls. And Splints avoided all discussion over the most controversial issues of the game, saying that opinions might form if Matt was dealt with. The only major contribution I'm noting from Splints is contributing to the Matt-Scotty scumbuddy theory, which ended up being wrong. I'm lightly scumreading Splints right now.

My rating:

4/10

Questions:
Now that your day 0 suspicion has flipped civ, what are your thoughts on everything else?
You dropped Scotty down from your number two suspicion. Who took his place?
Have you revisited everyone yet?

That's all I've got time for tonight, but I will try to come back and get the rest tomorrow, but I may not actually be able to do as many as I wanted so soon.

[fingersplints]

That's how I roll. seriously, though if you ask people who know me playing you pretty much just characterised how I play. I usually only have a couple suspects at a time, and I post less in the beginning until we get a few days into the game.

I'm liking the points against Timmer. I'm not feeling like this is his civvie game, but I'm hoping it isn't that he is just busy. I find he searches for baddies more actively then this as a civvie. Something feels off.

BTW I only post from my phone too. (It's why I post less when I do) my Mac charger is dangerously frayed, and the settings on my husband's computer hate this site. I can't read it there.

I'm still working on reevaluating everyone else. I'm looking into the old HV crew at the moment - particularly SD and Sorsha but I will also look at Enrique more - for the reason I was discussing with Bea. The choice of nightkills is weird and I'm trying to decide if it means anything.

To Bea - since you want to go WIFOMy - you know I'd never kill rabbit N1. He's much more fun to get lynched. I actually planned on voting him day 1 for old times sake, missed the vote, planned to do it day 2 regardless, and was super pissed when I saw he'd been killed.

[timmer]

Sadly splints that's exactly the case. I'm busy to play properly, and there is nothing I can do about it.