Psych Mafia [END]

[Scotty]

Scotty do you know what one of the most fun things I like to do as a baddie is? Make someone defend himself, over and over again, and then say "you aren't even making cases, you're just defending yourself".

You want me to make a case but simultaneously ate forcing me to defend a vote I made in good faith. And you are smart enough to know that defending isn't just for people with current votes in a poll

Again, who would I be defending? Any specifics? Because no one else is jumping out to me.
Who do you find suspicous?

I'm going to lay off grilling you from here on, and hope other people weigh in, like INH who I saw popped in multiple times during the past hour but didn't post.

[timmer]

I've got to head to bed, man. As time permits tomorrow I will try to find my own cases but if I see something that makes sense, even if isn't my own thought, I may follow it. If it makes sense, it makes sense.

[Scotty]

Just looking at some INH points:
Day 1: he votes Scotty1.0 for being goofy
Day 2: He votes me again, but this time after agreeing with timmer.
Day 3: He is in jail
Day 4: he votes sig, because he is convinced sig is bad:

Sig could also be Shawn, so I'm really not liking that INH and MM are so blithe about voting him. The most likely options to a Sig lynch I see are A) He's Yang and nothing happens again, or B) He's Shawn and we just lost a major civvie.

My case for voting Sig really rests in Sig's posting history. He seems to be trying so hard to pass himself off as invulnerable that it seems hollow to me. There's a very good chance he's bluffing, and Timmer provided an example of a time in the past when he did the same thing.

This mindset of "Sig must be either A or B." is reductive and limiting.

I'd ask you to read his posts and maybe try to think outside of the box.

It isn't reductive. Explain what is outside the box. Who is sig, and why are you voting for him?

Sig is a person who I think has said and done some shady stuff this game. People are giving him a pass because he wasn't lynched on Day 1. I think doing so is incorrect and playing directly into his hand. I think he's purposefully bluffing, and attempting to get through this game scot-free. A Crooked Cop would have a much better chance of having access to a lynch stop item. Plus, there are the infamous secret descriptions in their roles, which could theoretically have something to do with lynches. Thinking that Sig has to either be Shawn or Yang because he survived a lynch is reductive. I'm trying to get people to free their minds, dude.

Don't know the logic behind the underlined, but ok. He really wants sig dead.

Day 5: he votes bwt. This is the oddest one.

Spoiler: show

This is getting kind of ridiculous. I came into the thread with a fairly out there idea, explained my reasoning, MM was the only one who agreed with me, and now people automatically assume that the combination of the two must mean that I equal bad. And they are so convinced by this that they decide to just say that I've "seemed bad" from the beginning, and they don't feel that they need to add anything to Epi's case on me at all.

I also posted a response to Epi's case that it seems no one has listened to, or even wants to respond to. It's like I'm in a particularly unpleasant conversation where everyone else is pretending I'm not in the room.

Another reason people have to suspect me is that Sokoth, who seems to be the last bandwagon cargo for today, put my name out of alphabetical order in a read list.



This is the type of weird grammatical semantics based suspicion that always seemed to me to be about as effective as throwing a dartboard at the player list, and proclaiming whoever it lands on scum.

Above all else, I'd like to encourage open conversation about suspicions. Less empty agreeing and pointing at other posts, (although I'd be lying if I said I've never done that before) and more discussion of everyone. And I mean everyone, not just the latest person Epignosis wrote up a big imposing case on.

I believe the baddies are hiding in the Yes Men. The players who just go with the flow and jump on the bandwagons. Timmer's definitely caught my eye for his complete and utter 180 heel turn from this:

I feel like both Wilgy and Sig could be bad, while I'm less sold on the MM case. I trust INH in this game, and haven't trusted Sig all game...

to this

I believe INH is bad, as well. He was reading very sensible to me, but his voting with MM against Sig, and Sokoth's putting him last on her list... nope.

But my vote's going to go to the player I most feel exemplifies the "Yes Man" archetype, BWT. After saying nothing about me for the entire game, he posts a "Yeah, this" to Epi's Sokoth/INH dual indictments, and now wants to lynch me tomorrow. He voted Scotty twice before boarding the Wilgy train, and browsing through his post history, I can barely find any points of value that don't connect to one of those two. This vote is equally a statement of suspicion, and a suggestion for him to step up his game.

His suspicion of sig? That throwaway vote to lynch sig on day 4? Yeah, guess that was a wash. Did he just realize no one would pick up on the fact that trying to lynch sig was just a bad idea? Conveniently, he started broadening his scope on the player field right after MM was killed. Very timely time to start coming alive. Very Thriller-esque!


So I guess my question to you, INH: what is your perception of sig now? What made you change your game plan to looking elsewhere? Would you still vote sig if you got support from the rest of the town?

[Scotty]

I've got to head to bed, man. As time permits tomorrow I will try to find my own cases but if I see something that makes sense, even if isn't my own thought, I may follow it. If it makes sense, it makes sense.

Fair enough man. Look forward to it!

[timmer]

@Scotty, only here for a moment, but I'll explain to you, while I can, the reason I've flopped around on INH so much.

The logic came out early on that there was a good chance that Sig was either Shawn or Yang, based on the non-lynch. And my first thoughts were, as with most people, that if Sig is Yang, nothing I can do about it, and if he's Shawn well then he needs to be left alone.

But INH, if you check his posts, started doubting that, saying on a few occasions that he wants people to "think outside the box" and look at the situation differently. To me, it meant one of two things. Either, INH is Shawn and thus knew there was a way better chance of Sig being bad than the rest of us realized, or INH was a role who could check Sig out either through power or item and had proof that he was bad. So I went along with it, because he seemed pretty insistent about it.

But then we had the lynch with the 3-way vote, and now I see that INH and MM voted together. If MM was trying to lynch Sig, in such an open and unclear lynch situation, there was no way Sig was a Crooked Cop. So suddenly, INH's motives became very confusing. If Sig isn't a cop, what's going on with INH's push? Now, the idea that Sig id Shawn and the cops were failing to kill him made more sense.

Thus, my turnaround on INH. As for today, he's definitely a viable spot for my vote as his vote record (voting with MM) and motivations for pushing against Sig are questionable.

I hope that makes sense?

Also incidentally, I had forgotten about the whole item thing. If anyone wants to swap items with me, I'm game for that, just let me know?

[insertnamehere]

Sig could also be Shawn, so I'm really not liking that INH and MM are so blithe about voting him. The most likely options to a Sig lynch I see are A) He's Yang and nothing happens again, or B) He's Shawn and we just lost a major civvie.

My case for voting Sig really rests in Sig's posting history. He seems to be trying so hard to pass himself off as invulnerable that it seems hollow to me. There's a very good chance he's bluffing, and Timmer provided an example of a time in the past when he did the same thing.

This mindset of "Sig must be either A or B." is reductive and limiting.

I'd ask you to read his posts and maybe try to think outside of the box.

It isn't reductive. Explain what is outside the box. Who is sig, and why are you voting for him?

Sig is a person who I think has said and done some shady stuff this game. People are giving him a pass because he wasn't lynched on Day 1. I think doing so is incorrect and playing directly into his hand. I think he's purposefully bluffing, and attempting to get through this game scot-free. A Crooked Cop would have a much better chance of having access to a lynch stop item. Plus, there are the infamous secret descriptions in their roles, which could theoretically have something to do with lynches. Thinking that Sig has to either be Shawn or Yang because he survived a lynch is reductive. I'm trying to get people to free their minds, dude.

Don't know the logic behind the underlined, but ok. He really wants sig dead.

My theory was that sig was a Crooked Cop who networked with his Crooked Cop buddies and received a lynch stop item. I think it would be dumb to assume that in that giant list of items, there wasn't at least one lynch stop. The Crooked Cops have a 3/19 chance of starting out with one, which is much higher than every other sole player's odds.

Day 5: he votes bwt. This is the oddest one.

Spoiler: show

This is getting kind of ridiculous. I came into the thread with a fairly out there idea, explained my reasoning, MM was the only one who agreed with me, and now people automatically assume that the combination of the two must mean that I equal bad. And they are so convinced by this that they decide to just say that I've "seemed bad" from the beginning, and they don't feel that they need to add anything to Epi's case on me at all.

I also posted a response to Epi's case that it seems no one has listened to, or even wants to respond to. It's like I'm in a particularly unpleasant conversation where everyone else is pretending I'm not in the room.

Another reason people have to suspect me is that Sokoth, who seems to be the last bandwagon cargo for today, put my name out of alphabetical order in a read list.



This is the type of weird grammatical semantics based suspicion that always seemed to me to be about as effective as throwing a dartboard at the player list, and proclaiming whoever it lands on scum.

Above all else, I'd like to encourage open conversation about suspicions. Less empty agreeing and pointing at other posts, (although I'd be lying if I said I've never done that before) and more discussion of everyone. And I mean everyone, not just the latest person Epignosis wrote up a big imposing case on.

I believe the baddies are hiding in the Yes Men. The players who just go with the flow and jump on the bandwagons. Timmer's definitely caught my eye for his complete and utter 180 heel turn from this:

I feel like both Wilgy and Sig could be bad, while I'm less sold on the MM case. I trust INH in this game, and haven't trusted Sig all game...

to this

I believe INH is bad, as well. He was reading very sensible to me, but his voting with MM against Sig, and Sokoth's putting him last on her list... nope.

But my vote's going to go to the player I most feel exemplifies the "Yes Man" archetype, BWT. After saying nothing about me for the entire game, he posts a "Yeah, this" to Epi's Sokoth/INH dual indictments, and now wants to lynch me tomorrow. He voted Scotty twice before boarding the Wilgy train, and browsing through his post history, I can barely find any points of value that don't connect to one of those two. This vote is equally a statement of suspicion, and a suggestion for him to step up his game.

His suspicion of sig? That throwaway vote to lynch sig on day 4? Yeah, guess that was a wash. Did he just realize no one would pick up on the fact that trying to lynch sig was just a bad idea? Conveniently, he started broadening his scope on the player field right after MM was killed. Very timely time to start coming alive. Very Thriller-esque!

So I guess my question to you, INH: what is your perception of sig now? What made you change your game plan to looking elsewhere? Would you still vote sig if you got support from the rest of the town?

As I said earlier, my wanting to lynch sig was primarily based on my suspicion of him being a Crooked Cop. Finding out that MM, who was the only one who voted with me, was a Crooked Cop basically threw that into doubt for me. Now I come down on the side of sig being Mr. Yang, and I'm crossing my fingers that the Crooked Cops realize that the Yin/Yang team have a very good chance of beating them and that they can murder some civilians another night. Although we seem to be doing a better job at it than they are.

[Epignosis]

Also incidentally, I had forgotten about the whole item thing. If anyone wants to swap items with me, I'm game for that, just let me know?

I'll trade. I was going to trade with Eloh but somebody scooped me.

[Spacedaisy]

I apologize guys, I'm going to have to extend the day for another 24 hours. I'm in Waco until tomorrow morning helping my sister get moved into her new apartment so there is no way I can do the post tonight but tomorrow night I can handle it no problem.

[Marmot]

I apologize guys, I'm going to have to extend the day for another 24 hours. I'm in Waco until tomorrow morning helping my sister get moved into her new apartment so there is no way I can do the post tonight but tomorrow night I can handle it no problem.

Perfect timing! I'll be ready for a rezz at that time.

[timmer]

Also incidentally, I had forgotten about the whole item thing. If anyone wants to swap items with me, I'm game for that, just let me know?

I'll trade. I was going to trade with Eloh but somebody scooped me.

Done!

[insertnamehere]

@Scotty, only here for a moment, but I'll explain to you, while I can, the reason I've flopped around on INH so much.

The logic came out early on that there was a good chance that Sig was either Shawn or Yang, based on the non-lynch. And my first thoughts were, as with most people, that if Sig is Yang, nothing I can do about it, and if he's Shawn well then he needs to be left alone.

But INH, if you check his posts, started doubting that, saying on a few occasions that he wants people to "think outside the box" and look at the situation differently. To me, it meant one of two things. Either, INH is Shawn and thus knew there was a way better chance of Sig being bad than the rest of us realized, or INH was a role who could check Sig out either through power or item and had proof that he was bad. So I went along with it, because he seemed pretty insistent about it.

How is you assuming that because I have opinions, they must be based on role-based knowledge and not my view of people's posts, my fault? If I had info against sig, I would've been implying the hell out of it. Hell, you could've just asked me if I had info, and I would have said a definitive no.

But then we had the lynch with the 3-way vote, and now I see that INH and MM voted together. If MM was trying to lynch Sig, in such an open and unclear lynch situation, there was no way Sig was a Crooked Cop. So suddenly, INH's motives became very confusing. If Sig isn't a cop, what's going on with INH's push? Now, the idea that Sig id Shawn and the cops were failing to kill him made more sense.

I thought sig was a Cop. I didn't vote "with" MM, MM voted "with" me with no explanation, or even explicit agreement. Here's his vote post:

You're a guy with one vote on a guy I think is good and you think may be unlynchable.

That's a tough sell.

Sold!

Vote sig

It feels like a throwaway to me. Even then, I've backed off on trying to lynch sig, as I stated in my earlier post. I don't think for a second that he's Shawn, but I don't see anything I can do about it. Your post would make sense if I was still beating the sig drum, but I'm not. Why do you think I voted BWT Day 5?

It's kind of funny. Scotty suspects me because I gave up on Sig too easily, and you suspect me because I suspected Sig in the past!

Maybe come up with a cogent and cohesive case against me next time, k?
Thus, my turnaround on INH. As for today, he's definitely a viable spot for my vote as his vote record (voting with MM) and motivations for pushing against Sig are questionable.

I hope that makes sense?

Also incidentally, I had forgotten about the whole item thing. If anyone wants to swap items with me, I'm game for that, just let me know?

[timmer]

Just to be clear on this, MM's vote does not in any way look like a throwaway. He actually put Sig in the lead when he voted, if you check the poll order. He may have posted about it in a throwaway way, but as a baddie, you have to know that putting Sig into the lead was not in any way random on his part.

As for you having info, I never expect anyone with info to stand up and say it, but there have been a number of times that you've used variations on "think outside of the box" in your posts about Sig that suggested, at least to me, that you were trying to say more than you were, without saying it.

[timmer]

Looking into DF2.0 while I've got five minutes.

I notice he supported Dom/MM a smidge back on Day 2. But, he was the vote that put mm tied for the lead into the 3-way lynch battle on Day 4, so that would be a ballsy move to make.

I won't be voting his way.

[Epignosis]

And Epi continues to disregard my questions. Then votes me, because.........

Uh, I'm actually unsure. Because my previous self suspected rabbit and since I no longer think rabbit is suspicious because I am rabbit, that's suspicious?

Unsure? That's how you summarize my opinion of you?

You say it's mathematically impossible for all replacements to be civ. To back yourself up, you say that sig is Shawn and BDH is civ.

Oh wait, that's not confirmed. Neither of those are confirmed. As a matter of fact, I think sig is Yang, but that doesn't matter because he's not a mathematic part of the equation. He is a variable, not the rule. And BDH? Where is he confirmed civ? How do you know he is civ? I mean, you must KNOW he is civ based on some info, or else that wouldn't be mathematically confirmed.

When someone uses what information is available to him to figure things out, I would expect other civilians to appreciate the effort and the direction. You are indignant about it. Why?

You say sig is Yang, which isn't based on anything but his escape of the Day 1 lynch. I provided a logically sound analysis regarding sig.

BDH voted you the previous Day along with sig. I would have expected you to come into this probing BDH and sig for their votes, but you haven't said anything about BDH other than to complain about my perspective of him. Don't crap on my perspective when you haven't offered an alternative.

Why did you stop suspecting INH? Or do you? You continue to ignore my prodding to talk about one of the people you said you would vote for. Why is that?

I stopped suspecting INH?

Were I to vote right now, it would be one of three people: Russ, Scotty, or INH.

Damn.

And I'm ignoring your "prodding?"

The site is behaving itself now. I am cooking though, and then eating. When I return, I'm going to read through INH and birdwithteeth and report. After that, I am going to complete my analysis of the replacements. One of you bad.

I only got through half of bwt because I decided to do other things with my time last night, like kick ass in Settlers of Catan.

Why is my opinion of INH so urgent for you?

Hey Epi, awesome that all BDH had to do was 'hey, what does everyone think of BWT" and you do a full analysis on page 1 of his posts. Cool beans. I actually agree with your sleuthing and that bwt does look better for it.

BDH has more credibility with me than you do. He controls a vote I can trust. I can't say the same about yours. I can also trust that BDH is earnestly seeking my input and isn't attempting to sway my focus.

What do you think of timmer, who has had 2 votes for some time? I can't remember the last time you have mentioned him, let alone comment on a case.

I don't have an opinion of timmer. How is timmer having two votes "for some time" relevant to my opinion of him?

Now do that for timmer and INH pretty please. I'm putting my feelers out and all that. I'll buy you a metaphoric beer. But domestic draft only, I'm not the captain of the Enterprise for gods sake

If I get to it. You gunning for Lorab on the basis of "info" and then trying to discredit my view of sig and BDH as though I have some kind of info in their favor does not improve my opinion of you. You're wrong and you came right back with "Hey, what do you think of INH?" It gives me the impression that you are looking for any place to stick your vote. That you've voted alongside my other main suspect also doesn't help. More on that in a moment.

Oh, out of all the living people you've looked at, you pick me.

Wah.

You haven't given me a compelling reason to move my vote to Russtifinko.

Is it because I'm voting for your teammate and this is your way of defending him?

No. I said I was voting you, Russ, or INH today before anybody voted.

[Elohcin]

I like the idea of looking at replacements for today. It makes sense that a baddie is among those three 2.0s and it gives us a smaller sample of players which gives us a higher chance of catching a baddie. I will be looking at those today/tomorrow and deciding who I will vote among them. I

Also incidentally, I had forgotten about the whole item thing. If anyone wants to swap items with me, I'm game for that, just let me know?

I'll trade. I was going to trade with Eloh but somebody scooped me.

Done!

Yeah, I had forgotten about it too until I reread the rules the other day. BDH has offered to trade/gift me his item while I gift him mine, but I haven't heard from him since. I'm a little afraid he will forget and then I will have given him my item for nothing in return.

BDH, please confirm with me about our agreement as we get closer to EoD.

[Epignosis]

Scotty has come back and said nothing about Russtifinko, a situation I've been monitoring.

Perhaps people have forgotten, but Russtifinko replaced in calling for Scotty1's head.

Try rereading these exchanges:

Spoiler: show

........aaaaaaand I missed the poll. Rats.

Good luck civs! Glad I got to play, even though my time was short.

You were taken so soon. You were so young!

But it's ok because I'm back!

Things I now believe (though I could in fact be wrong):

1) Scotty is Bad News Bears.
2) He was probably saved on D1, so Matt and/or Epi look pretty darn bad too.

Thoughts?

So I know there must be rules in place for this, but I'm assuming you can't talk about your precious self life.

I'm wondering what led you to this conclusion in your current role.
Is #2 a separate thought from #1? Or is #1 a conclusion from #2?


Anyone wanna talk about my 9 person train from yesterday ...or start the Scotty-is-bad locomotive again?

Well, I don't see any rules about discussing you previous life - just items. However, you made it pretty clear what happened in a previous post, so I'll let people use that to figure it out for themselves. What happened doesn't make you look any better to me.

#2 does follow from #1, so #1 seems like a good place to start. In addition to probably nabbing a baddie, lynching you will also get us the most info, since then we'll know for sure if it was a save and how to take the late votes that saved you D1.

So I say ALL ABOOOOOOOOOARD! CHOO CHOO!

Spoiler: show

One of the earliest reasons civilians get hosed is the ever-present assumption that someone was being saved.

Russ, explain to me why I would save Scotty Day 1 only to turn against him Day 2. Detail your theory as much as you can. What makes it "probable" that Scotty was saved?

If it looked like he was going down regardless, makes sense to hop on the bandwagon as unobtrusively as possible. And given how many votes he got, another vote save waspretty improbable. Add to that, that it was likely any teammates he had knew he would survive anyway, and why the hell not pile on and hide in the crowd?

As you say, you turned against Scotty D2. Are you still against him? Because this reads to me as a soft defense. Which would make perfect sense if in fact you are both bad and Scotty can now be lynched, if you think you have a chance of getting me first and delaying his death another day.

If sig is good, then Day 1 voting is basically a wash. If I am lynched and come back as town, how would that skew your "he was saved" idea?

I don't like the cut of your jib, Russ 2.0.

Of course you don't, lol. You're trying to live, and I'm trying to get you killed.

Not sure how to respond to your question....clearly if you were good, you weren't saved by baddie teammates. Duh.

Regardless, we can't confirm or deny the theory without lynching you.

Linki: Yeah I don't understand that post either. Who are you referring to, Scotty?

Spoiler: show

Oh nm INH is arrested.

I could vote Russ 2.0 just based on TH's behavior yesterday of asking to be arrested. It's not like he had alot of traction for a lynch today.

Russ 2.0: what do you make of your predecessor's desire to be arrested last night?

Well, being off the poll is always nice. TH was also replaced because of "host error", so maybe it had something to do with that?

Nice NO U, by the way. You're doing a decent job of pretending you have reasons for wanting me dead besides that I want you dead.

Russ2 was keen on lynching Scotty, and one of his main reasons was that doing so would "give us the most info." Scotty1 got lynched. What did Russtifinko do with the information he gleaned from Scotty1's lynch? I looked. The answer is "Nothing of note."

Now Scotty is back, and not once does Scotty2 even so much as express any curiosity about Russ2' alignment after that fiasco. And now they are voting together without questioning each other at all. This means that, even without saying so, Scotty has revealed that he believes a leader in his former life's lynch is good to the extent that he is willing to support Russtifinko's case against timmer.

Even though...

You know what? I'm just going to take the spoiler tags off this:

Oh nm INH is arrested.

I could vote Russ 2.0 just based on TH's behavior yesterday of asking to be arrested. It's not like he had alot of traction for a lynch today.

Russ 2.0: what do you make of your predecessor's desire to be arrested last night?

Well, being off the poll is always nice. TH was also replaced because of "host error", so maybe it had something to do with that?

Nice NO U, by the way. You're doing a decent job of pretending you have reasons for wanting me dead besides that I want you dead.

Good Scotty expressed suspicion of Russ2, but is now supporting him without breathing a word about his opinion of a guy who voted for him.

Nobody is fooling me.

[Elohcin]

That there is enough for me to place a vote on Scotty. I'll hear him out if he has a defense, but the facts are pretty damning.

[Scotty]

And Epi continues to disregard my questions. Then votes me, because.........

Uh, I'm actually unsure. Because my previous self suspected rabbit and since I no longer think rabbit is suspicious because I am rabbit, that's suspicious?

Unsure? That's how you summarize my opinion of you? Thats how I summarize my opinion of your opinion of me.

You say it's mathematically impossible for all replacements to be civ. To back yourself up, you say that sig is Shawn and BDH is civ.

Oh wait, that's not confirmed. Neither of those are confirmed. As a matter of fact, I think sig is Yang, but that doesn't matter because he's not a mathematic part of the equation. He is a variable, not the rule. And BDH? Where is he confirmed civ? How do you know he is civ? I mean, you must KNOW he is civ based on some info, or else that wouldn't be mathematically confirmed.

When someone uses what information is available to him to figure things out, I would expect other civilians to appreciate the effort and the direction. You are indignant about it. Why?

You say sig is Yang, which isn't based on anything but his escape of the Day 1 lynch. I provided a logically sound analysis regarding sig.

BDH voted you the previous Day along with sig. I would have expected you to come into this probing BDH and sig for their votes, but you haven't said anything about BDH other than to complain about my perspective of him. Don't crap on my perspective when you haven't offered an alternative.

I do appreciate the effort of using info, if you actually are civ. That's why I felt like voting you would be a mistake since no one else if really taking the time to do that. The problem is, you are usually really good at framing a certain viewpoint, so I'm hesitant to say a civ Epi or a Mafia Epi would be different in the aspect of information framing. And I am harping on the wording, since you are so intent on harping of my wording. Mathematically eliminating? Hardly. That implies concrete info. You're framing it as if your opinion is objective and canon, which it is not. That's my point here.

RE: BDH- yeah, being dead had me only doing cursory glances at the thread and getting tone reads, which is slightly different for me. I found BDH had a positive tone while I was dead, and I actually don't see him as bad. So I mean I can agree with you on that point. And I'm not crapping on your perspective, ok? That's your opinion, not fact. That's, again, the point I was making. I think we both agree that BDH looks civ.

Why did you stop suspecting INH? Or do you? You continue to ignore my prodding to talk about one of the people you said you would vote for. Why is that?

I stopped suspecting INH? i dunno, that's why I was asking.

Were I to vote right now, it would be one of three people: Russ, Scotty, or INH.

Damn.

And I'm ignoring your "prodding?" Yes. You are. I still don't know WHY you suspect him. It's like choosing pants to wear that day, but forgetting you laid them out, and finding them 3 weeks later and being like 'oh hey, I should wear those some day'"

The site is behaving itself now. I am cooking though, and then eating. When I return, I'm going to read through INH and birdwithteeth and report. After that, I am going to complete my analysis of the replacements. One of you bad.

I only got through half of bwt because I decided to do other things with my time last night, like kick ass in Settlers of Catan.

Why is my opinion of INH so urgent for you? i don't like you leaving things open ended.

Hey Epi, awesome that all BDH had to do was 'hey, what does everyone think of BWT" and you do a full analysis on page 1 of his posts. Cool beans. I actually agree with your sleuthing and that bwt does look better for it.

BDH has more credibility with me than you do. He controls a vote I can trust. I can't say the same about yours. I can also trust that BDH is earnestly seeking my input and isn't attempting to sway my focus.

Because he's loyal to you, you mean? Sorry I'm not a lapdog

What do you think of timmer, who has had 2 votes for some time? I can't remember the last time you have mentioned him, let alone comment on a case.

I don't have an opinion of timmer. How is timmer having two votes "for some time" relevant to my opinion of him? Curious of your opinion of him. Thought that you would at least take to that case, at least a little, instead of just sticking to Replacementville.

Now do that for timmer and INH pretty please. I'm putting my feelers out and all that. I'll buy you a metaphoric beer. But domestic draft only, I'm not the captain of the Enterprise for gods sake

If I get to it. You gunning for Lorab on the basis of "info" and then trying to discredit my view of sig and BDH as though I have some kind of info in their favor does not improve my opinion of you. You're wrong and you came right back with "Hey, what do you think of INH?" It gives me the impression that you are looking for any place to stick your vote. That you've voted alongside my other main suspect also doesn't help. More on that in a moment.

ah, but even though LoRab wasn't bad, my analysis was correct. Info did lead Sokoth to concluding she was bad, and it was just a matter of not trusting that his check could have been bad.

My vote is pliable. But you're being indignant in marching to your own drum, which is nothing new for you, however it's really taking a toll on me this game.

Oh, out of all the living people you've looked at, you pick me.

Wah.

You haven't given me a compelling reason to move my vote to Russtifinko.

Is it because I'm voting for your teammate and this is your way of defending him?

No. I said I was voting you, Russ, or INH today before anybody voted.

SO WHY ARE YOU CONTEMPLATING VOTING INH? Jeez, I'm sorry I sound like a broken French horn, but you're being purposefully vague.

Eh, voting Epi.

[Scotty]

That there is enough for me to place a vote on Scotty. I'll hear him out if he has a defense, but the facts are pretty damning.

Which points do you agree with?

[Scotty]

I'm getting very worked up this game. More so because I was wrongfully exploited on the first go round, and here I am again. Im honestly trying to lynch baddies. I don't care what rabbit did before me. I'm good, I'm pissed and I'm slowly losing my patience.

Sorry I'm getting snippy. I just don't like losing, and once again, I seem to be at the center of the vote.

[Epignosis]

And Epi continues to disregard my questions. Then votes me, because.........

Uh, I'm actually unsure. Because my previous self suspected rabbit and since I no longer think rabbit is suspicious because I am rabbit, that's suspicious?

Unsure? That's how you summarize my opinion of you? Thats how I summarize my opinion of your opinion of me.

You say it's mathematically impossible for all replacements to be civ. To back yourself up, you say that sig is Shawn and BDH is civ.

Oh wait, that's not confirmed. Neither of those are confirmed. As a matter of fact, I think sig is Yang, but that doesn't matter because he's not a mathematic part of the equation. He is a variable, not the rule. And BDH? Where is he confirmed civ? How do you know he is civ? I mean, you must KNOW he is civ based on some info, or else that wouldn't be mathematically confirmed.

When someone uses what information is available to him to figure things out, I would expect other civilians to appreciate the effort and the direction. You are indignant about it. Why?

You say sig is Yang, which isn't based on anything but his escape of the Day 1 lynch. I provided a logically sound analysis regarding sig.

BDH voted you the previous Day along with sig. I would have expected you to come into this probing BDH and sig for their votes, but you haven't said anything about BDH other than to complain about my perspective of him. Don't crap on my perspective when you haven't offered an alternative.

I do appreciate the effort of using info, if you actually are civ. That's why I felt like voting you would be a mistake since no one else if really taking the time to do that. The problem is, you are usually really good at framing a certain viewpoint, so I'm hesitant to say a civ Epi or a Mafia Epi would be different in the aspect of information framing. And I am harping on the wording, since you are so intent on harping of my wording. Mathematically eliminating? Hardly. That implies concrete info. You're framing it as if your opinion is objective and canon, which it is not. That's my point here.

RE: BDH- yeah, being dead had me only doing cursory glances at the thread and getting tone reads, which is slightly different for me. I found BDH had a positive tone while I was dead, and I actually don't see him as bad. So I mean I can agree with you on that point. And I'm not crapping on your perspective, ok? That's your opinion, not fact. That's, again, the point I was making. I think we both agree that BDH looks civ.

Why did you stop suspecting INH? Or do you? You continue to ignore my prodding to talk about one of the people you said you would vote for. Why is that?

I stopped suspecting INH? i dunno, that's why I was asking.

Were I to vote right now, it would be one of three people: Russ, Scotty, or INH.

Damn.

And I'm ignoring your "prodding?" Yes. You are. I still don't know WHY you suspect him. It's like choosing pants to wear that day, but forgetting you laid them out, and finding them 3 weeks later and being like 'oh hey, I should wear those some day'"

The site is behaving itself now. I am cooking though, and then eating. When I return, I'm going to read through INH and birdwithteeth and report. After that, I am going to complete my analysis of the replacements. One of you bad.

I only got through half of bwt because I decided to do other things with my time last night, like kick ass in Settlers of Catan.

Why is my opinion of INH so urgent for you? i don't like you leaving things open ended.

Hey Epi, awesome that all BDH had to do was 'hey, what does everyone think of BWT" and you do a full analysis on page 1 of his posts. Cool beans. I actually agree with your sleuthing and that bwt does look better for it.

BDH has more credibility with me than you do. He controls a vote I can trust. I can't say the same about yours. I can also trust that BDH is earnestly seeking my input and isn't attempting to sway my focus.

Because he's loyal to you, you mean? Sorry I'm not a lapdog

What do you think of timmer, who has had 2 votes for some time? I can't remember the last time you have mentioned him, let alone comment on a case.

I don't have an opinion of timmer. How is timmer having two votes "for some time" relevant to my opinion of him? Curious of your opinion of him. Thought that you would at least take to that case, at least a little, instead of just sticking to Replacementville.

Now do that for timmer and INH pretty please. I'm putting my feelers out and all that. I'll buy you a metaphoric beer. But domestic draft only, I'm not the captain of the Enterprise for gods sake

If I get to it. You gunning for Lorab on the basis of "info" and then trying to discredit my view of sig and BDH as though I have some kind of info in their favor does not improve my opinion of you. You're wrong and you came right back with "Hey, what do you think of INH?" It gives me the impression that you are looking for any place to stick your vote. That you've voted alongside my other main suspect also doesn't help. More on that in a moment.

ah, but even though LoRab wasn't bad, my analysis was correct. Info did lead Sokoth to concluding she was bad, and it was just a matter of not trusting that his check could have been bad.

My vote is pliable. But you're being indignant in marching to your own drum, which is nothing new for you, however it's really taking a toll on me this game.

Oh, out of all the living people you've looked at, you pick me.

Wah.

You haven't given me a compelling reason to move my vote to Russtifinko.

Is it because I'm voting for your teammate and this is your way of defending him?

No. I said I was voting you, Russ, or INH today before anybody voted.

SO WHY ARE YOU CONTEMPLATING VOTING INH? Jeez, I'm sorry I sound like a broken French horn, but you're being purposefully vague.

Eh, voting Epi.

You are like Will Smith's I am Legend.

You had me until the end.

[birdwithteeth11]

For example, rabbit8 is the kind of player Scotty would be eager to eliminate, as per his usual M.O.

But he's now replaced into rabbit8's role. There has to be a cognitive dissonance there. So let's see what Scotty said about rabbit in his past life. This was Day 3:

After looking back through Night 1, the following people posted:
Matt, Epi, sig, Russ, Wilgy, Dom, bwt, DF, me, and BDH.

Those that didn't:
nijuu, Elo, LoRab, Quin, rabbit, Sokoth, SVS (or whoever was filling in for her), and timmer.

I think that 2 or all 3 baddies could conceivably be in the latter list, if we're to believe that mafia failed to submit a kill night 1. (And they would not have done it on purpose on N1...I don't care who you are, you're not gonna skimp out on a free kill N1 if you are bad).
However, I also know from previous experience that sometimes baddies don't send in a kill until later in the phase when everyone agrees upon it. So that doesn't completely disqualify the former list from being bad. Obviously, we can rule out DF 1.0 and Russ 1.0.
Wilgy, sig, bwt, me and BDH posted in the second half of the phase before End of Night, so I think that's at least a good look for us. Which would lump Matt, Epi and Dom into the second list (All 3 of which are on my suspect list).


Makes sense to me. I would like to start widdling down from that list.

Anyone else see the logic here, or is it just me?

I'm playing this game and will be able to pick up and actually read the thread Friday, in case anyone is asking me anything.... ?????

Yeah, I'll ask you something:
where r u. You said you'd catch up, and I see you posted in another game, so I know you're still there somewhere.

Adding you to my suspect pool, because honestly I forgot you were even playing this game.

rabbits and marmots and Matts, oh my!!! (and epi)

Two posts where good Scotty suspected rabbit8. Scotty is now rabbit8.

Let's put Scotty aside for a moment:

Given what is known about the roles, do you believe rabbit8 was a good role or a bad role- why or why not?

I had a slightly bad read on rabbit. He never offered up an explanation for his lack of content, and disappeared off the face of the earth so to speak pretty often. And given we had a baddie team who either failed at and/or missed a lot of kills, it doesn't make rabbit/Scotty 2.0 look good in perspective.

[birdwithteeth11]

Epi, what is your take on BWT? I can't seem to get a read on him. It's like I send feelers out and get NO RESPONSE back...

What feelers have you sent out? If you have questions, I will answer them.

That last part was more metaphorical, than literal...cuz I really haven't asked you anything directly. I just read through your posts and can't infer/decipher/pick-up-on anything. You just read as a complete blank to me and I've never realy had that happen before. I usually get SOME glimpse (whether correctly or incorrectly) about something. And I should make it clear, this is more about ME reading you than anything directed at you/your actions. But since we are having this discourse, what are your thoughts about our inability to seek out baddies in this game? Are we being manipulated?...Do we just suck at it?...Are the civs just more active making it harder to find the mafia crews?

Oh okay. I totally get that one. I often get lots of reads in most games I play that I tend to get misread a lot. I think it's part of the reason I get lynched really early in a lot of games a TON lol.

Manipulated? Certainly possible. Do we suck at it? Well our results so far would say that, yes, we do. I think early one we had several baddies who either failed at killing and/or were a bit more inactive. Which could definitely make it harder later on to try and hunt them down. Especially when you add in the amount of replacements we've had occur in this game, which makes it harder (for me personally at least) to keep track of who's who.

[birdwithteeth11]

Considering that mm voted for Sig, I'd think that my choosing not to vote for him yesterday would be seen in a good light, not a bad one.

It does in hindsight, but I'm not sure about that moment in time. To me, it looks more like you did a 180 rather than changed your mind due to new evidence. Unless I missed something where you had suspected MM previously.

Not at all, I jumped on the case. Look, you know how much time I have to play mafia these days. I cannot and will never any time soon, be a lead player. I can't follow every post, that's just not my game, and it hasn't been for some time.

So people should realize that this is who I am now; a player who picks up other people's cases and evaluates them. So if I seem to have swerved a few times, that's why.

Well if you really are being as active as you can, and you're a civ, I appreciate that. But...


It does feel to me like you're being opportunistic in the way you have latched onto cases, lack of time or not. I don't have much time myself either for mafia, but I'm trying to make a more conscious effort (starting with this game) to be as active and involved as I can.

I dunno. But to me, it feels like you're trying to duck out of something that makes you look not good by using the lack of time as an excuse.

[Epignosis]

Scotty, I am comfortable voting Russ. I've said as much. You are comfortable voting with Russ. That is a huge problem for me.

I responded to your indignant post. You responded and I was nodding along to what you were saying...and then you voted for me. That also doesn't help me change my mind. I don't care how frustrated you are. We have a moderation team for that. If you want to change my mind, don't treat me like I'm obligated to speak on whatever subject you demand just because you demand it, especially after you came in here all, "I'm voting Lorab no matter what she says because info."

I will be certainly voting for LoRab tomorrow regardless of what she has to say. There's always the off chance that Sokoth is giving a blind sus of someone after getting civ reads but nahhhhh

What civilian says this?

Only after you get proven wrong do you acknowledge that, "Oh gee, several other non-Mafia roles could show up as bad." You cannot expect to claim credibility after that.

[birdwithteeth11]

I apologize guys, I'm going to have to extend the day for another 24 hours. I'm in Waco until tomorrow morning helping my sister get moved into her new apartment so there is no way I can do the post tonight but tomorrow night I can handle it no problem.

Perfect timing! I'll be ready for a rezz at that time.

No rezz 5 u nub baddie.

This whole back-and-forth between Scotty and timmer from late last night is interesting. I'm still catching up but I may have to re-read this. Because right now my head is swimming with it.

[birdwithteeth11]

I apologize guys, I'm going to have to extend the day for another 24 hours. I'm in Waco until tomorrow morning helping my sister get moved into her new apartment so there is no way I can do the post tonight but tomorrow night I can handle it no problem.

I saw the picture of the empty truck on Facebook, so I'm going to assume it was a successful move in! What made her go down to Waco?

[birdwithteeth11]

Looking into DF2.0 while I've got five minutes.

I notice he supported Dom/MM a smidge back on Day 2. But, he was the vote that put mm tied for the lead into the 3-way lynch battle on Day 4, so that would be a ballsy move to make.

I won't be voting his way.

I think that is the reason why I'm not looking at DF 2.0. If he voted for a teammate given the situation of the game at that time, that's an incredibly risky move to make and could cost the baddies a lot. So even though he's been a mixed bag this game, I'm not voting him today either for the same reason.

Also, glad to see you contributing a bit more now!

[birdwithteeth11]

Scotty has come back and said nothing about Russtifinko, a situation I've been monitoring.

Perhaps people have forgotten, but Russtifinko replaced in calling for Scotty1's head.

Try rereading these exchanges:

Spoiler: show

........aaaaaaand I missed the poll. Rats.

Good luck civs! Glad I got to play, even though my time was short.

You were taken so soon. You were so young!

But it's ok because I'm back!

Things I now believe (though I could in fact be wrong):

1) Scotty is Bad News Bears.
2) He was probably saved on D1, so Matt and/or Epi look pretty darn bad too.

Thoughts?

So I know there must be rules in place for this, but I'm assuming you can't talk about your precious self life.

I'm wondering what led you to this conclusion in your current role.
Is #2 a separate thought from #1? Or is #1 a conclusion from #2?


Anyone wanna talk about my 9 person train from yesterday ...or start the Scotty-is-bad locomotive again?

Well, I don't see any rules about discussing you previous life - just items. However, you made it pretty clear what happened in a previous post, so I'll let people use that to figure it out for themselves. What happened doesn't make you look any better to me.

#2 does follow from #1, so #1 seems like a good place to start. In addition to probably nabbing a baddie, lynching you will also get us the most info, since then we'll know for sure if it was a save and how to take the late votes that saved you D1.

So I say ALL ABOOOOOOOOOARD! CHOO CHOO!

Spoiler: show

One of the earliest reasons civilians get hosed is the ever-present assumption that someone was being saved.

Russ, explain to me why I would save Scotty Day 1 only to turn against him Day 2. Detail your theory as much as you can. What makes it "probable" that Scotty was saved?

If it looked like he was going down regardless, makes sense to hop on the bandwagon as unobtrusively as possible. And given how many votes he got, another vote save waspretty improbable. Add to that, that it was likely any teammates he had knew he would survive anyway, and why the hell not pile on and hide in the crowd?

As you say, you turned against Scotty D2. Are you still against him? Because this reads to me as a soft defense. Which would make perfect sense if in fact you are both bad and Scotty can now be lynched, if you think you have a chance of getting me first and delaying his death another day.

If sig is good, then Day 1 voting is basically a wash. If I am lynched and come back as town, how would that skew your "he was saved" idea?

I don't like the cut of your jib, Russ 2.0.

Of course you don't, lol. You're trying to live, and I'm trying to get you killed.

Not sure how to respond to your question....clearly if you were good, you weren't saved by baddie teammates. Duh.

Regardless, we can't confirm or deny the theory without lynching you.

Linki: Yeah I don't understand that post either. Who are you referring to, Scotty?

Spoiler: show

Oh nm INH is arrested.

I could vote Russ 2.0 just based on TH's behavior yesterday of asking to be arrested. It's not like he had alot of traction for a lynch today.

Russ 2.0: what do you make of your predecessor's desire to be arrested last night?

Well, being off the poll is always nice. TH was also replaced because of "host error", so maybe it had something to do with that?

Nice NO U, by the way. You're doing a decent job of pretending you have reasons for wanting me dead besides that I want you dead.

Russ2 was keen on lynching Scotty, and one of his main reasons was that doing so would "give us the most info." Scotty1 got lynched. What did Russtifinko do with the information he gleaned from Scotty1's lynch? I looked. The answer is "Nothing of note."

Now Scotty is back, and not once does Scotty2 even so much as express any curiosity about Russ2' alignment after that fiasco. And now they are voting together without questioning each other at all. This means that, even without saying so, Scotty has revealed that he believes a leader in his former life's lynch is good to the extent that he is willing to support Russtifinko's case against timmer.

Even though...

You know what? I'm just going to take the spoiler tags off this:

Oh nm INH is arrested.

I could vote Russ 2.0 just based on TH's behavior yesterday of asking to be arrested. It's not like he had alot of traction for a lynch today.

Russ 2.0: what do you make of your predecessor's desire to be arrested last night?

Well, being off the poll is always nice. TH was also replaced because of "host error", so maybe it had something to do with that?

Nice NO U, by the way. You're doing a decent job of pretending you have reasons for wanting me dead besides that I want you dead.

Good Scotty expressed suspicion of Russ2, but is now supporting him without breathing a word about his opinion of a guy who voted for him.

Nobody is fooling me.

Unfortunately, I think I have to agree. To make such a 180 simply because you came back in to replace under a different role...

This smells like a mix of 6 different kinds of fish to me.

[birdwithteeth11]

The heck with it. I know day got extended for 24 hours, but I know where I'm voting for now.

[birdwithteeth11]

And Scotty's voting for Epig sealed the deal for me.

Unless something else funky happens, I do not see my vote changing.

[Elohcin]

That there is enough for me to place a vote on Scotty. I'll hear him out if he has a defense, but the facts are pretty damning.

Which points do you agree with?

The interactions between you and Russ.

[sig]

Threw down a quick vote for scotty 2.0, I'll catch up right now. Sorry about inactivity who'd have thought I had so much junk to pack for college.

[Scotty]

Just look at those votes pile up.

Eerily reminiscent of early game, ain't it?

No one finds that suspicious that I'm having no resistance, once again? Timmer got resistance.

I mean, you can't all be bad, but apparently you can be lazy.

I'm done putting up a resistance. Once again, I'm trying too hard in the game and it's making me irritable. Next time I replace in, I'm just gonna pop in every now and then and say "hey, I agree with the majority, that person is bad". Sounds like a winning strategy.

No, I'm not gonna talk to the mods. I've got it out in my past life and over the past day. It's just a game, I know, but it just sucks. Someone just tell me who to vote, I'm over making cases right now, it's just not worth it.

[DFaraday]

Just look at those votes pile up.

Eerily reminiscent of early game, ain't it?

No one finds that suspicious that I'm having no resistance, once again? Timmer got resistance.

I mean, you can't all be bad, but apparently you can be lazy.

I'm done putting up a resistance. Once again, I'm trying too hard in the game and it's making me irritable. Next time I replace in, I'm just gonna pop in every now and then and say "hey, I agree with the majority, that person is bad". Sounds like a winning strategy.

No, I'm not gonna talk to the mods. I've got it out in my past life and over the past day. It's just a game, I know, but it just sucks. Someone just tell me who to vote, I'm over making cases right now, it's just not worth it.

Scotty, given that there are only two Mafia left, I doubt your teammate (if you're Mafia) would risk trying to defend you right now. They're either Russ or throwing you under the bus.

And I'm still considering where to vote, but you didn't make any attempt to explain your change of stance regarding Russ, which was a big part of the case Epi made. If you have something to say about that, I'll take it into account.

[BigDamnHero]

Yeah, I had forgotten about it too until I reread the rules the other day. BDH has offered to trade/gift me his item while I gift him mine, but I haven't heard from him since. I'm a little afraid he will forget and then I will have given him my item for nothing in return.

BDH, please confirm with me about our agreement as we get closer to EoD.

I sent my PM to the hosts after we agreed to the trade.

[BigDamnHero]

Just look at those votes pile up.

Eerily reminiscent of early game, ain't it?

No one finds that suspicious that I'm having no resistance, once again? Timmer got resistance.

I mean, you can't all be bad, but apparently you can be lazy.

I'm done putting up a resistance. Once again, I'm trying too hard in the game and it's making me irritable. Next time I replace in, I'm just gonna pop in every now and then and say "hey, I agree with the majority, that person is bad". Sounds like a winning strategy.

No, I'm not gonna talk to the mods. I've got it out in my past life and over the past day. It's just a game, I know, but it just sucks. Someone just tell me who to vote, I'm over making cases right now, it's just not worth it.

Do you thing Epi could be a silver-tongued baddie leading us astray, Scotty? If so, who would you have me vote for instead? The "evidence" presented against you does look bad, but as always in mafia, it's purely circumstantial...so can you explain away those circumstances?

[Elohcin]

Yeah, I had forgotten about it too until I reread the rules the other day. BDH has offered to trade/gift me his item while I gift him mine, but I haven't heard from him since. I'm a little afraid he will forget and then I will have given him my item for nothing in return.

BDH, please confirm with me about our agreement as we get closer to EoD.

I sent my PM to the hosts after we agreed to the trade.

awesome, thanks...I will do the same.

[Scotty]

I took a step back from last night. I don't mean to appeal to emotions or bring the Pity Party on me. I find that cheap. But I am still frustrated. I'm willing to consider that Epi is not all bad.

I was not expecting to be brought back, and had ideas of who was bad before. I was crestfallen to learn Matt was not bad. My strategy going into this new role and persona is finding something I find suspicious and delving further into that. What it's done is create a chasm between those people and the rest. I'm pooling all of my resources into a couple people at a time, and perhaps this step back is helpful. Doesn't help I have 4 votes on me of people convinced cases are "damning" but in stead of giving up, I want to keep fighting for civs.

Because once again, I'm good. This game has been messy all around for me, as I would feel pretty bad at myself if we lost because I was mislynched...twice.

Scotty has come back and said nothing about Russtifinko, a situation I've been monitoring.

Perhaps people have forgotten, but Russtifinko replaced in calling for Scotty1's head.

Try rereading these exchanges:

Spoiler: show

........aaaaaaand I missed the poll. Rats.

Good luck civs! Glad I got to play, even though my time was short.

You were taken so soon. You were so young!

But it's ok because I'm back!

Things I now believe (though I could in fact be wrong):

1) Scotty is Bad News Bears.
2) He was probably saved on D1, so Matt and/or Epi look pretty darn bad too.

Thoughts?

So I know there must be rules in place for this, but I'm assuming you can't talk about your precious self life.

I'm wondering what led you to this conclusion in your current role.
Is #2 a separate thought from #1? Or is #1 a conclusion from #2?


Anyone wanna talk about my 9 person train from yesterday ...or start the Scotty-is-bad locomotive again?

Well, I don't see any rules about discussing you previous life - just items. However, you made it pretty clear what happened in a previous post, so I'll let people use that to figure it out for themselves. What happened doesn't make you look any better to me.

#2 does follow from #1, so #1 seems like a good place to start. In addition to probably nabbing a baddie, lynching you will also get us the most info, since then we'll know for sure if it was a save and how to take the late votes that saved you D1.

So I say ALL ABOOOOOOOOOARD! CHOO CHOO!

Spoiler: show

One of the earliest reasons civilians get hosed is the ever-present assumption that someone was being saved.

Russ, explain to me why I would save Scotty Day 1 only to turn against him Day 2. Detail your theory as much as you can. What makes it "probable" that Scotty was saved?

If it looked like he was going down regardless, makes sense to hop on the bandwagon as unobtrusively as possible. And given how many votes he got, another vote save waspretty improbable. Add to that, that it was likely any teammates he had knew he would survive anyway, and why the hell not pile on and hide in the crowd?

As you say, you turned against Scotty D2. Are you still against him? Because this reads to me as a soft defense. Which would make perfect sense if in fact you are both bad and Scotty can now be lynched, if you think you have a chance of getting me first and delaying his death another day.

If sig is good, then Day 1 voting is basically a wash. If I am lynched and come back as town, how would that skew your "he was saved" idea?

I don't like the cut of your jib, Russ 2.0.

Of course you don't, lol. You're trying to live, and I'm trying to get you killed.

Not sure how to respond to your question....clearly if you were good, you weren't saved by baddie teammates. Duh.

Regardless, we can't confirm or deny the theory without lynching you.

Linki: Yeah I don't understand that post either. Who are you referring to, Scotty?

Spoiler: show

Oh nm INH is arrested.

I could vote Russ 2.0 just based on TH's behavior yesterday of asking to be arrested. It's not like he had alot of traction for a lynch today.

Russ 2.0: what do you make of your predecessor's desire to be arrested last night?

Well, being off the poll is always nice. TH was also replaced because of "host error", so maybe it had something to do with that?

Nice NO U, by the way. You're doing a decent job of pretending you have reasons for wanting me dead besides that I want you dead.

Russ2 was keen on lynching Scotty, and one of his main reasons was that doing so would "give us the most info." Scotty1 got lynched. What did Russtifinko do with the information he gleaned from Scotty1's lynch? I looked. The answer is "Nothing of note."

Now Scotty is back, and not once does Scotty2 even so much as express any curiosity about Russ2' alignment after that fiasco. And now they are voting together without questioning each other at all. This means that, even without saying so, Scotty has revealed that he believes a leader in his former life's lynch is good to the extent that he is willing to support Russtifinko's case against timmer.

Even though...

You know what? I'm just going to take the spoiler tags off this:

Oh nm INH is arrested.

I could vote Russ 2.0 just based on TH's behavior yesterday of asking to be arrested. It's not like he had alot of traction for a lynch today.

Russ 2.0: what do you make of your predecessor's desire to be arrested last night?

Well, being off the poll is always nice. TH was also replaced because of "host error", so maybe it had something to do with that?

Nice NO U, by the way. You're doing a decent job of pretending you have reasons for wanting me dead besides that I want you dead.

Good Scotty expressed suspicion of Russ2, but is now supporting him without breathing a word about his opinion of a guy who voted for him.

Nobody is fooling me.

Ugh, I don't have time to format on my phone.

Epi, it's hard for me to separate baddies from that lynch. I know baddies votes for me. Timmer started the vote for me early on day 2, and you followed. Russ continued the same sentiment a lot of the town said: "we'll learn something". Did you? Nah, because everyone and their mother hopped on that train but I hoped anyway.

I found Russ 2.0's actions indicative of someone who thought the info was right there and obvious. I felt the same about Matt. So Russ 2.0 wasn't someone I was focusing on. LoRab suspected me for similar reasons and I didn't suspect her, until Sokoth's reveal, in which I followed that to its end. Was I wrong on LoRab? Yes. Was I right on LoRab? Most likely.

So could Russ 2.0 be bad for wanting me lynched? Yea, sure. I'll go there. I could vote there. Voting in the same block of someone who I previously suspected for Yin does not a crooked cop make.

What do you expect me to say about someone who's been passionately after my head all game?
I'm referring to you, by the way.

I want you all to look at Russ' post up there toward me. "So unless you can convince me there's incontrovertible proof 2 replacements are bad, then I think you're oversimplifying and ignoring a lot of useful stuff by limiting yourself to looking only at replacements."

Am I looking only at replacements? Am I ignoring a lot of "useful stuff?" What useful stuff is Russ talking about? He doesn't say. What useful stuff, Russ?

I saw this post, and happened to agree with Russ here, because I didn't trust you. I still don't, but am working on changing my viewpoint and fast before you get me mislynched again.

Are you looking only at replacements? Well, that's not quite true, but is mostly. You are only voting for Replacements today, based on the math in your head. Russ probably could have phrased that better, but then again I could have phrased most things better this game. The "ignoring useful stuff" I even echoed in my posts.

The whole reason you're after replacements, Epi, is that you strongly believe BDH to be good, and sig to be good. And that's assuming you're good.

[Scotty]

Let's change the subject a bit.

What do you think of Elo? She has done nothing this phase but agree with you and make sure she gets that item from BDH.

[Scotty]

Woah guys, I'm just now looking at Elo's voting record and I don't like what I see.

Day 2- she votes for Scotty1.0 to give me 5 votes. This is right after Quin voted for Dom to bring him to 3.
Day 3- was a wash like I was afraid of. She voted for Scotty1.0 with 8 other people.
Day 4- She TIES UP THE VOTE by voting for Wilgy, bringing it 3-3 Wilgy and MM. This was followed by timmer and bwt.
Day 5- she joins the bandwagon for Sokoth.

Most of her play has been her nodding her agreement with cases. Her most damning vote comes in Day 4 by swaying the vote away from MM.

Okay, so in light of Epi's post, I decided to go back and read Day 2. Then I decided to read individual players on Day 2. And still...I got nuttin'!! I don't know what's wrong with me this game, but I'm having a hard time finding any, what you call, pings.

This was one of her few posts on Day 4. It's not what I would call a confident voter.
But she does spend most of her posting on day 4 contemplating secrets behind the crooked cops kill, which isn't inherently suspicous. She suspects the baddies are inactive. Ok.

OK. Read up.

Thoughts on the names that have come up, because at this moments, I don't have any suspects of my own and I've been wrong about suspicions up until now, so I'm self doubting, and I didn't have time to read back through earlier posts. Also, it's less than 2 hours, and more names would only make it easier for mafia to manipulate the lynch, assuming (like Epi) many missing voters).

MM I could definitely see as bad. Especially after the vote for Sig, with no stated reason for doing so.

Russ I would be very surprised to find out was bad.

Wilgy, I'm unsure. I'm not very good at reading him. My gut tells me he is civ, but my gut could be totally wrong.

Sig, I really don't think is bad. I'm willing to revisit that at some point, but I don't see enough evidence that he's bad at this point to change my thinking.

So, I'm voting MM, because I think that's where I'm seeing the strongest reasoning at this point.

My top suspect is still wilgy. And with no developments today on who could be bad b/c of Night 2's kill, I have to stick with my vote on him. But, this post here doesn't sit well with me. The way Lorab describes wilgy sounds like how a baddie would describe a teammate. I also don;t like how she voted for MM and gave the exact reasoning that a previous player gave. If wilgy is bad, Lorab has my next vote.

"Still Wilgy"? She hadn't talked about Wilgy but lumping him in with LoRab and Rabbit as having 2 posts on day 2.

But suddenly, she could vote for Wilgy, right after LoRab voted for MM, to put 3 votes on him.




I'm gonna vote Elo. Anyone else see what I'm seeing?

[Epignosis]

Let's change the subject a bit.

What do you think of Elo? She has done nothing this phase but agree with you and make sure she gets that item from BDH.

She did a bit of that the last go around where she was bad. I didn't suspect her then, and she only got caught because of the cop (I was of the opinion there wasn't a cop in play). I don't suspect her now, but that's a combination of trying to avoid recency bias and that she's mostly agreed with me. I can hardly fault people for agreeing with me.

I see what you've posted up there, and she can answer for herself. The only thing I'll say as a general observation is that everybody except DFaraday has a (piss ) poor voting record, so I'm hesitant to rely on that for guidance.

I am going to give you some breathing room and move my vote to Russtifinko. I still suspect you, but I also suspect Russ. You are at least putting forth effort and doing work.

[Russtifinko]

I vote more people follow Epi and vote me. In fact, I'll be the first. One of the longest weeks of my life, and I don't have energy to try to save this game. So lynch me, and please, for the love of God, do 2 things when I die:

1) Lynch timmer. THat way we'll have done at least one thing right this game.
2) Dethrone Epi as King of the Thread. I mean, it was a pretty inactive game, and someone had to fill the void, so in that respect Epi is helping. But he's wrong, and the vast majority of the thread is treating his word like gold. It lets baddies skate by when 2/3 of voters say "Oh sure, whatever Epi said. That'll be good."

[Russtifinko]

Also, people (Elo was most notable to me, but others too) are STILL acting like replacements have a higher chnace of being bad than non-replacements. Spacedaisy has made it abundantly clear she's replacing inactive players solely because of inactivity. So once again, unless you can prove that baddies have a higher propensity to quit games (which, by the way, I 100% guarantee you can't), this argument is BULLSHIT.

It's one thing if you have thread evidence or a compelling case that a replacement is bad, but in term of burden of evidence, they should be looked at through EXACTLY THE SAME lens as a non-replacement player. Doing anything other than that will cause you to narrow your focus based on false assumptions, and it WILL increase your chance to lose (if you're a civ).

Starting to think Epi knows this and is laughing his way to the W.

[Russtifinko]

Also, why only 6 votes on an extended day? We have 9 players left, right?

Come on, people! Pile 'em on.

[Epignosis]

I vote more people follow Epi and vote me. In fact, I'll be the first. One of the longest weeks of my life, and I don't have energy to try to save this game. So lynch me, and please, for the love of God, do 2 things when I die:

1) Lynch timmer. THat way we'll have done at least one thing right this game.
2) Dethrone Epi as King of the Thread. I mean, it was a pretty inactive game, and someone had to fill the void, so in that respect Epi is helping. But he's wrong, and the vast majority of the thread is treating his word like gold. It lets baddies skate by when 2/3 of voters say "Oh sure, whatever Epi said. That'll be good."

"I don't want have the energy to try to save this game."

"Dethrone Epi as King of the Thread."

It doesn't work that way.

I have expressed three names I am most interested in voting out. Am I wrong about all of them? Which ones do I have wrong? Why am I wrong? If you (and by you, I mean anyone) disagree with me about the people I've named and the reasons I believe they should be lynched, then convince me that I'm incorrect. If you agree with me, then the rational thing to do is vote with me. That's how it works. Don't say you don't have the strength to save the game and then go all sour grapes on me.

[timmer]

"Still Wilgy"? She hadn't talked about Wilgy but lumping him in with LoRab and Rabbit as having 2 posts on day 2.

But suddenly, she could vote for Wilgy, right after LoRab voted for MM, to put 3 votes on him.




I'm gonna vote Elo. Anyone else see what I'm seeing?

Well, she did have this previous post:

After catching up, I am up for voting for Scotty or Wilgy. Wilgy b/c Sokoth's ISO or whatever you wanna call it was very good and makes him look bad. Scotty b/c he SEEMS like he is very active in the game and trying to be helpful, but he really isn't. He's trying to look civ, but naming players and giving no explanations doesn't help find baddies. In fact, I will go ahead and play my vote on Scotty for now.

Did you not see that one?

[BigDamnHero]

I worked from 6pm to 4am yesterday, got 2 hrs sleep and now I'm transferring my mom from one nursing center of another...my day is pretty full...

That's being said, I'm reading the thread and WILL vote before poll closes. Russ' recent pleas kinda strike a chord with me, though. I need to for a bit. We NEED to get this right to get back in this game or have any hope of achieving a civ victory.

Someone earlier, I think Scotty maybe, questioned my gift exchange w/ Elo. I.hope.ots not crossing a line but I'm gonna say it anyway: there's no danger in the gift I'm exchanging. It CAN ONLY HELP if Elon is a civ (and the civ I think she may possibly be) or else do absolutely nothing if she's one of the baddies. I've tried to be active with items but nothing I've done seems to have produced any results, unfortunately.

[Scotty]

"Still Wilgy"? She hadn't talked about Wilgy but lumping him in with LoRab and Rabbit as having 2 posts on day 2.

But suddenly, she could vote for Wilgy, right after LoRab voted for MM, to put 3 votes on him.




I'm gonna vote Elo. Anyone else see what I'm seeing?

Well, she did have this previous post:

After catching up, I am up for voting for Scotty or Wilgy. Wilgy b/c Sokoth's ISO or whatever you wanna call it was very good and makes him look bad. Scotty b/c he SEEMS like he is very active in the game and trying to be helpful, but he really isn't. He's trying to look civ, but naming players and giving no explanations doesn't help find baddies. In fact, I will go ahead and play my vote on Scotty for now.

Did you not see that one?

I did see that one. I was more referring to any time in that phase, Day 4. She suspected Wilgy in Day 2. The start of her Day 4 entailed her questioning her own abilities and "not having any pings" on anyone. That's like me voting for BDH for something he said on day 1, because I said he smelled funny once.

Except that wouldn't tie the vote up with someone we now know to be bad (MM).

[timmer]

Interesting... so your thinking is that she forgot she had listed Wilgy briefly in the past, and said she had no pings, inferring that a civ with a genuine ping wouldn't forget it, but a baddie who is just saying stuff to say stuff might forget they had said something a few days previous?