RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

[JaggedJimmyJay]

that nightkill is too clean.

What do you mean by "too clean"?

[Quin]

that nightkill is too clean.

What do you mean by "too clean"?

I overthought it, but your biggest supporter being killed is a good look for you. I have some thoughts id like to share but ill wait until I've gotten my shit sorted before I do

[JaggedJimmyJay]

that nightkill is too clean.

What do you mean by "too clean"?

I overthought it, but your biggest supporter being killed is a good look for you. I have some thoughts id like to share but ill wait until I've gotten my shit sorted before I do

Do ya thang.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Beck / Quin 2.0:

Spoiler: show

Vote: MovngPictures07

am i doing this right?

Attempted RVS vote for MP on Day 0. I never thought of this until now, but I could perhaps see this as being a flier distancing vote. I don't know if Beck is the type to pull that, but I know I've seen it plenty of times. This of course relies on Beck and MP both being scum, which is more to swallow.

Spoiler: show

Hey Beck, I hereby accuse you of using (trying to use) a fake random vote as a means of comfortably getting your feet into the scary cold water that is this game. I've done it before. What say you?

I say nay!

I voted for MP7 for one post in particular -- would be curios to see if you see what I see.

But let's say I did vote for MP7 to ease myself into the game, what does that make me?

(There's a right answer and a wrong answer, Jimmy.)

I kind of like this though. Beck reminds me of me, sans all the words.

Spoiler: show

cmon gang

let's get this political party bumpin

His early eagerness fell off a cliff, probably due to RL reasons.

Spoiler: show

more villagers itt rn than wolves

maybe no wolves idk

that's my "ive done no reading" read

Beck brings his MU styles to The Syndicate. If he was still here I wonder what he'd think?

Spoiler: show

Ricochet and Jay are v/v

certainly not w/w

Maybe TMI on Rico and I. I can understand someone seeing a Wall of Text War on Day 0 and just going "V/V" though.

MovingPicture07

The MP vote is repeated on Day 1. This might be a decent indicator that he some degree of investment in it.

Spoiler: show

gg Scotty

question: who on this page kept saying Scotty was a villager?

This was "indirectly directed" at Sloonei I think. At the time I thought it was a good look, as it makes sense for him to be concerned with potential scum TMI. I could also wonder if he was the one smearing here given the eventual reversal of Scotty's flip. I won't reach.

~~~ Enter Quin 2.0 ~~~

I counted, and Quin 2.0 made 12 posts in the first 90 minutes of his return to the game. That alone is a very good look to me. The last of those 12 is quite substantive. I think that after the heightened emotion of the EOD that resulted in Quin 1.0's lynch, the only thing that could stop Quin 2.0 from exploding into this thread would be a mafia-aligned role card. It doesn't look to me like he got one. I might even say I would expect a SK Quin 2.0 to be less engaged than that.

He's still willing to talk to me, in spite of everything. An open mind is a nice look.

Spoiler: show

that nightkill is too clean.

What do you mean by "too clean"?

I overthought it, but your biggest supporter being killed is a good look for you. I have some thoughts id like to share but ill wait until I've gotten my shit sorted before I do

He has no obligation to take this stance and I don't think a baddie does (at least not prior to me saying this right here). Great.

~~~~~~~~~~

Quin 2.0 looks splendid to me.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

MovingPictures07 / reywaS:

"I'm busy."

~~~ Enter reywaS ~~~

Spoiler: show

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm not town reading this.

[Quin]

Silly Quin got straight out of bed and found out that Ricochet and Golden got killed and for some reason decided to mash them up into one event.

I see it as a very unlikely scenario that Jay killed Golden. Going off what I've read, Jay was coming into Day 3 on very thin ice. Killing his biggest supporter right now is basically a suicide mission.

I think it's possible that he killed Rico. One of the things I read when I woke up was his reasons for town-reading every player (bar the few he couldn't) and Ricochet's stood out to me. It looks incredibly lacking. As for the latter part of this defence, in my first game here I was bad and I made damn sure I asked every question and started every conversation on the main thread exactly for this reason. Initially I thought this was a weak defence for a teammate, but obviously the night post overruled that. But what it could also have been was a half-hearted defence for someone who was about to die.

Ricochet -- His true effort level is low enough that I don't get the impression he has manipulative intent. Scotty engaged him with OT chatter that could have happened in a BTSC if they shared one.

So he's not really 'looking good', but he does make me want to pursue another train of thought. By no means am I feeling better about 3J, but I'm going to spend today looking at who would kill Golden, because I think that's the serial killer.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Sloonei:

Spoiler: show

I've read things. This thread is like 75% jay and rico. And in that exchange I like Jay's wall better. Or, more accurately, Rico's wall lost me pretty early. They both did, but I had more trouble following Rico's line of thought. I do not know how much of that is roleplay and how much is him just not making sense.
That said, the only alignment-indicative thing I pulled out of the exchange was Rico's apparent overreaction to MM's initial accusation, and the continued overreaction during the entire exchange. Even an honest Trump shouldn't have had to take such strong opposition to that claim. Methinks he's compensating for something, and that something is his lack of GOP-ness. Maybe. I don't necessarily want to vote for him at this point. I feel like he would be falling victim to simply being an enormous target.

Jay is a null read. There's about a 0.001% chance both of them are scum.

Mindmelding on much of this, apart from reading myself null.

Spoiler: show

I agree with this assessment. Though I'm not sure I "like" any particular wall better than the other. I do think Rico could be building a wall of his own though... (thanks, be here all night. Remember to tip your waitress)

Why did you put a gun to your own head and scum read Quin?

Cuz I had no read of him, and figured I should.

so you arbitrarily put a scum read on him?

Sloonei begins the attack upon Scotty. This was a major contributor to the eventual lynch.

Spoiler: show

Basically. I put those reads in as I thought of them, and after the fact realized I forgot about 4 more peeps. I can't really remember Quin's content this game, hence the scum read.

What's your beef with him?

My beef is the same as yours.

Medium rare?

Meh, ok. vote Quin

Why?

Same as you.

I mean you seemed to trust me enough there to follow along in a vote that you've got no substantial reason to believe in, despite claiming to believe in it. You've also got no substantial reason to trust me, just a minute ago you were complaining that I haven't been active enough, and now I'm here and I'm throwing this bullshit in your face, so why are you listening to me?

This looks like never-team mates, TBH. I feel more strongly about that than I did before.

Votes Scotty, explains at length

Spoiler: show

I'm going to throw my vote onto the Scotty bonfire. Him and Sloonei are probably my two most suspicious people at this point, and I'm willing to give Sloonei a chance to earn my trust here. Plus I really don't like the Leetic bandwagon, so helping to derail that is a nice bonus.

So you are setting me up to be your top suspect in the event that Scotty flips town? Noted, thanks.

Sloonei ended up moving his vote off of Scotty, and he started the INH counterwagon. I don't fault him at all for that. I think it'd be a silly team mate "save" maneuver, and I agreed with his suspicion of INH's post here.

Spoiler: show

I think INH is bad and saw an easy opportunity to spin tomorrow's lynch on me if/when Scotty flips town. Vote for him.

Yes I expect Scotty to flip town.

He was blatant in his pre-flip town projection on Scotty. After the flip reversal, this is something that I returned to with more concern. It's still probably the worst moment of Sloonei's posts IMO. I don't struggle to see a townie behind it though.

He spoke quite a lot with Quin 1.0 after the flip reversal. This is important because Sloonei's Quin/Scotty team theory eventually became a lynch. I think Sloonei did an adequate job of keeping an open mind for the most part.

Sloonei expressed concerns about me near the end of Day 2. My tinfoil case labeled this as a sort of opportunism. It could be, but I think it's unlikely. I don't really think his suspicion of me is unfounded or ridiculous. It's suitable to the image I would expect Sloonei to have of my town self and his desire to see me exhibit it.

Spoiler: show

I promise to actually read things and provide informed opinions on stuff at some point during this day phase.
Until then Jay is bad and I can't back that claim up.

Please read thoroughly and give me a chance, Sloonei. We don't have to be at odds.

~~~~~~~~~~~

I have no real problems with Sloonei.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think it's possible that he killed Rico. One of the things I read when I woke up was his reasons for town-reading every player (bar the few he couldn't) and Ricochet's stood out to me. It looks incredibly lacking. As for the latter part of this defence, in my first game here I was bad and I made damn sure I asked every question and started every conversation on the main thread exactly for this reason. Initially I thought this was a weak defence for a teammate, but obviously the night post overruled that. But what it could also have been was a half-hearted defence for someone who was about to die.

I stated that read numerous times well before he died, and well before the phase in which he would die. I don't think it was weak. I think you are less willing to make a judgment call than I am.

Golden was my only outright supporter, and Rico was one of very few who stood any chance of voting the way I vote. Neither of them are sensible kills for me. If people can allow themselves to judge night kills without a bunch of "well it could be that..." reaching I think they'd see that. Those two players may well have been the least likely to vote for me out of the entire roster. Golden never would have, and Rico was obviously intent on following Golden's vote as sarcastically as possible.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Reviewing everyone's ISOs only strengthened my perspective that the two baddies are reywaS and DrWilgy 2.0. I know it's hard to feel inspired about that given their lack of content, but that's kind of the point. I don't even care about their content. I care that everyone else looks a hell of a lot better.

I think everyone else's PoE should basically be those two and me. I haven't heard a word of protest otherwise yet.

I'll see what I can do about serial killer hunting now. There's really not much to work with on that front other than the night kills and tone, but I'll do my best.

[Quin]

I could entertain the idea that Wilgy is the serial killer, based on two ideas that come to mind, but I have no reason to even look at sawyer right now.

1) Wilgy made sure to stay out of the two main wagons Day 2 (I initially town read this, but it is also fitting for an indie)
2) You set him up as the Day 3 lynch, so he killed your main supporter and is now trying to lynch you

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I could entertain the idea that Wilgy is the serial killer, based on two ideas that come to mind, but I have no reason to even look at sawyer right now.

1) Wilgy made sure to stay out of the two main wagons Day 2 (I initially town read this, but it is also fitting for an indie)
2) You set him up as the Day 3 lynch, so he killed your main supporter and is now trying to lynch you

I think #1 is scummy and #2 could as easily be scummy as indie. I think Golden was right and the mafia team killed him for it. They left me around so they could popcorn the day away while I get guillotined. Golden being right would mean I am also right, but who's gonna listen to JJJ anyway?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I could also see the serial killer taking out Rico literally because he requested it (from a vigilante, but whatever).

[Quin]

I could entertain the idea that Wilgy is the serial killer, based on two ideas that come to mind, but I have no reason to even look at sawyer right now.

1) Wilgy made sure to stay out of the two main wagons Day 2 (I initially town read this, but it is also fitting for an indie)
2) You set him up as the Day 3 lynch, so he killed your main supporter and is now trying to lynch you

I think #1 is scummy and #2 could as easily be scummy as indie. I think Golden was right and the mafia team killed him for it. They left me around so they could popcorn the day away while I get guillotined. Golden being right would mean I am also right, but who's gonna listen to JJJ anyway?

I disagree with #1, but you knew that already. I'd believe you on #2 if it weren't for the fact that I think you're bad.

What do you think Golden was right about?


btw, I did look at your ISO and you're good as far as your read on Rico. With this in mind, give me your serial killer case.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I disagree with #1, but you knew that already. I'd believe you on #2 if it weren't for the fact that I think you're bad.

What do you think Golden was right about?

Everything. I'm town. Wilgy and/or reywaS are mafia-aligned. He and I were step-for-step on nearly every point. It's another reason to kill him, frankly. I'm a much easier lynch today without Golden in here barking about it.

btw, I did look at your ISO and you're good as far as your read on Rico. With this in mind, give me your serial killer case.

I'm working on it now. It'll be individual posts for each player again. I had a method I used in Talking Heads that proved really effective for SK-hunting so I am going to try it again.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Serial Killer hunt -- S~V~S / DrWilgy:

Boomslang never said anything about S~V~S, he was gone before she was replaced.

~~~

Wilgy 1.0 never said anything about S~V~S, he was gone before she was replaced.

~~~

Golden called S~V~S neutral in a Day 2 rainbow.

Spoiler: show

Golden, who are your top 3 suspects?

Quin
Mp (rey or wilgy?)
Beck

Not one of Golden's top three suspects later on Day 2.

Still neutral, but near the bottom on Night 2

Spoiler: show

OK. A lot of what I find suspicious in inh is completely replicated there, even to the extent that he is telling Matt that his methods are 'downright harmful to the town'.

*sigh* - I mean, it's disappointing. INH was disappointed in me, now I'm disappointed in him. I don't understand why he is spending so much effort on attacking my game style (something that is almost always completely irrelevant to alignment from any player), but perhaps this is something he legitimately finds suspicious.

I think I need to read INH back. I see why you are at rey and wilgy, Jay.

Agrees with my arrival upon a PoE of reywaS and Wilgy 2.0.

Thinks reywaS looks slightly WORSE than Wilgy 2.0 on Day 3, just prior to demise

~~~

Spoiler: show

Those of you associating S~V~S with Hillary just for being a woman are no better than those bleeding heart liberals who only support Hillary because she's a woman.

Makes the most sense to me, what other explanation can there be? I mean, if someone else drew Hillary, I would have expected that player to concede by now or ask for a replacement. I mean, who would want to be Hillary?

I'm pretty sure it was always a joke, but Rico continuously gave S~V~S shit for being Hillary (as the only female). He placed votes based on this mindset too.

Rico had no meaningful interaction with Wilgy 2.0.

~~~~~~~~~

The potential exists at least in the Golden kill. I'm inclined to think he's mafia though, not the serial killer.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Serial Killer hunt: Epignosis:

Spoiler: show

For me, the trouble with leetic's accusation of me is less that it's confusing -- townies are confusing sometimes. It's more that it came on the heels of Epignosis stating his suspicion of me. The opportunism is almost blatant. I see this progression:

1. Townie getting pressured by someone else, perhaps another townie (me and Epi respectively).
2. Baddie takes opportunity to promote that negative climate for the accused by throwing shade -- making up whatever he has to make up.

I say "perhaps another townie" in #1 because it strikes me as more likely that a baddie would be capitalizing on a townie being wrong than openly jumping on a bandwagon generated by his partner. For this reason I think leetic and Epignosis would make unlikely team mates if either of them is bad.

I agree with that read of unlikely partnership. And six posts (roughly three hours) between Epi's and leetic's posts can be seen as opportunistic. Interestingly, leetic also pressured MM to clarify his reasons for an Epi vote in his very next post. I doubt a baddie teammate would show two bits of positive association back to back, especially on Day 1.

Boomslang agreed with me that leetic and Epignosis make unlikely mafia team mates, and Boomslang was suspicious of leetic among them. This implies he trusted Epignosis on Day 1.

~~~

DrWilgy 1.0 said nothing about Epignosis.

~~~

Spoiler: show

I thought what Sloonei did would be fun too.

I randomised who my first vote would be. Epignosis, apparently.

Fine with me, though, because I find him coming off worst in the Jay/Rico exchange.

Golden was suspicious of Epignosis from the start on Day 1.

Continued / Continued / Continued

Spoiler: show

Oh goodie. Feel much better about my vote (and what my gut was saying) now.

Quin goes right back on the table, for one. Quin, were you actually doubting sloonei? For me, sloonei is townie number one and was even with scotty's town flip.

In fact, I'm feeling a bit 'mafia championship' about this, and I'm saying that at this point sloonei, Jay and epi are not in my PoE. Don't ask me what PoE stands for, I never figured that out. Rico probably isn't either.

I need to look back on that End of Day, but I see no reason based on recollection to rule inh or leetic out, despite scotty being bad. So, my PoE at the moment is:

Beck, Boomslang, Wilgy, inh, leetic, MM, MP, Quin, SVS, maybe rico (need to revisit).

Golden removed Epignosis from his PoE after the Scotty baddie flip, meaning he trusted Epi as a non-team mate of Scotty on Night 1.

Spoiler: show

Wait for tomorrow...

"No, lets not lynch the confirmed baddie Quin. Lets lynch epignosis, he was wrong about Jay"

This sarcasm implies he still trusted Epi well into Day 2.

Strong town read in a Night 2 rainbow

Spoiler: show

I'll knock epi down a peg to neutral for doing exactly what inh did.

The narrative is 'golden was wrong last time, so he shouldn't be listened to this time'.

It's a bullshit narrative, and epi and inh both know that full well.

Later on Night 2 that read shifted steeply down to neutral (in a limited pool of suspects). Golden placed Epignosis back into his PoE.

Spoiler: show

Lynch 3J next. He tried his damnedest to save Scotty, INH gets it, and you are trying to discredit him. Why?

Looked at Jay's defence of inh, I think inh is town. So I've moved on.

You still seem to think 'he tried his damndest to save scotty' is a good reason to read him as bad, even though I pointed out its very rare and not a very good indicator. Your response to that was simply 'that's why it's a good tactic'.

So essentially, you think Jay is bad because you agree with me that its rare that baddies do what he does but you think thats why it would be a good tactic for Jay to do it.

Your case is shit, its myopic, and you actually aren't trying to solve the game.

Chances of you being bad are at this point much higher than chances that inh is bad.

Language gets stronger against Epignosis.

Then Golden died.

~~~

Searching Rico's posts is a pain in the ass. He can't be CTRL+F'd. I don't see much discussion of Epignosis in the thicket of tweet sarcasm.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If Golden is a serial killer target, I think Epignosis looks very compatible with that decision. The other kills would be rather arbitrary.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

lol I broke the thread title

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm going to take a break. ISO hell is giving me a headache.

I hope everyone at least looks these over, even if you think I'm the baddiest baddie in baddietown.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I just thought of something:

It might be impossible for Wilgy 2.0 to be the serial killer. S~V~S has been completely absent from The Syndicate throughout this game due to technical issues, which means she couldn't have submitted a kill on Night 1. Wilgy replaced her to start Day 2.

Caveat: if Wilgy replaced her just before that and G-Man snagged a night kill from him then, then nevermind. No way to know that.

No matter, he can still be mafia and I still want to behead him.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I just thought of something:

It might be impossible for Wilgy 2.0 to be the serial killer. S~V~S has been completely absent from The Syndicate throughout this game due to technical issues, which means she couldn't have submitted a kill on Night 1. Wilgy replaced her to start Day 2.

Caveat: if Wilgy replaced her just before that and G-Man snagged a night kill from him then, then nevermind. No way to know that.

No matter, he can still be mafia and I still want to behead him.

Nope, still impossible. Wilgy 1.0 wasn't dead until the end of Night 1. I don't think 2.0 can be the SK.

[Epignosis]

I feel like any vote I make is going to be the wrong decision.

[insertnamehere]

I feel like any vote I make is going to be the wrong decision.

you knew the theme going in, right?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I feel like any vote I make is going to be the wrong decision.

What votes are you considering and what doubts do you have about them?

[Epignosis]

I feel like any vote I make is going to be the wrong decision.

you knew the theme going in, right?

That's good.

[Epignosis]

3J was the one waving his hands around yelling at us to vote INH when Scotty went down. On the surface, that's a blatant save attempt. Now his narrative is that I killed Golden to make lynching him easier, as though anybody was going to listen to Golden "Quin is 100% Mafia."

On the other hand, DrWilgy voted for 3J with no articulated thought- not even any pretense of thought. Furthermore, Golden was strong in his stance against a 3J lynch, and even though he was wrong about Quin, at least he wasn't trying to deceive anyone.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

3J was the one waving his hands around yelling at us to vote INH when Scotty went down. On the surface, that's a blatant save attempt. Now his narrative is that I killed Golden to make lynching him easier, as though anybody was going to listen to Golden "Quin is 100% Mafia."

That's not my "narrative". It's one possibility worth consideration. I don't know which faction killed Golden. If it was a mafia kill then I don't think it was you. If it was a SK, then it could be. I haven't even finished looking into that.

Golden would have voted for someone other than me. That by default makes me easier to lynch.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Remember when I waved my hands around yelling at people to vote Diiny instead of MacDougall in Talking Heads and then I almost got lynched for it? History repeats.

I defend people I don't want to lynch. Sometimes they flip mafia. Shit happens. Other people aren't subject to this suspicion because they don't have the balls to defend people on Day 1.

[Sloonei]

3J was the one waving his hands around yelling at us to vote INH when Scotty went down. On the surface, that's a blatant save attempt. Now his narrative is that I killed Golden to make lynching him easier, as though anybody was going to listen to Golden "Quin is 100% Mafia."

On the other hand, DrWilgy voted for 3J with no articulated thought- not even any pretense of thought. Furthermore, Golden was strong in his stance against a 3J lynch, and even though he was wrong about Quin, at least he wasn't trying to deceive anyone.

I was also waving my hands and yelling to lynch INH instead of Scotty.

[Quin]

'Quin' has been mentioned 275 times so far in this game. 'Quin' was mentioned 897 times in Turf Wars.

We're at 316 now, folks.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

'Quin' has been mentioned 275 times so far in this game. 'Quin' was mentioned 897 times in Turf Wars.

We're at 316 now, folks.

So how about all those town reads of mine. Am I wrong about someone?

[Epignosis]

leetic:

There's only one real post.

Spoiler: show

Everyone else: I don't expect you to read our text walls. Once we've had our chat and I am satisfied with whatever conclusion I come to I'll summarize it.

My suspicion of you has grown, sir. Why wouldn't you expect people to read what you've posted and form their own opinions and instead rely on your summary?

Why would we go to the trouble of researching something and forming our own opinions when we can get a nice tidy, completely unbiased five word long summary from FOX News or Breitbart that tells us how to feel about things?

You've given us very little so far other than to criticize the play of someone you have declared a town read for.

If you think my methods are unhelpful, then take a look in the freaking mirror dude. This is useless.

The latter part is CWAC (which stands for Contributing Without Actually Contributing btw). You're saying you won't do something, but not why. Others being unhelpful is no excuse to have said behavior.

I didn't like it on Day 1. I thought the accusation wasn't applicable to anything I said and that it just looked made up. However, Scotty changed my mind:

Spoiler: show

Hey Sloonei, want to vote Bass the Clever with me?

I do not. Why are you voting for him?

Lol

Yeah, I'm fine changing my vote from Quin based on this back and forth with Sloonei just in case I'm being bamboozled. Quin is one of 5 people I could vote for for almost interchangeable lack of content reasons. Let's move on to the one that JJJ has brought up better reasons for.

leetic

Looks opportunistic, and it looks like self-preservation before it would have been necessary to SP-vote a team mate.

~~~~~~~~~

On his own power, leetic could be lumped with Wilgy 2.0 and reywaS. Neither of those two has a post like Scotty's here though to make them look better.

Scotty followed you in his vote for leetic. And leetic hasn't been doing anything.

These are the possibilities. Mafia Not Mafia

1. Scotty / 3J / leetic
2. Scotty / 3J / leetic
3. Scotty / 3J / leetic
4. Scotty / 3J / leetic

1. Scotty follows a typically charismatic 3J to set up leetic.
2. Scotty follows his teammate 3J in setting up leetic.
3. leetic is a bum teammate and Scotty sees an opportunity to make him useful and 3J is innocent.
4. Scotty follows his teammate 3J in throwing leetic under the bus.

None of this would interest me but for the fact that Scotty didn't vote to save himself. Ironically, he kept asking me if I would save myself. So the idea of self-preservation was clearly on his mind, but he himself didn't even try.

Something more elaborate is going on.

[Epignosis]

3J was the one waving his hands around yelling at us to vote INH when Scotty went down. On the surface, that's a blatant save attempt. Now his narrative is that I killed Golden to make lynching him easier, as though anybody was going to listen to Golden "Quin is 100% Mafia."

On the other hand, DrWilgy voted for 3J with no articulated thought- not even any pretense of thought. Furthermore, Golden was strong in his stance against a 3J lynch, and even though he was wrong about Quin, at least he wasn't trying to deceive anyone.

I was also waving my hands and yelling to lynch INH instead of Scotty.

You were also riding the credit crest of the Scotty lynch.

[Epignosis]

3J's opinions Day 1.

Spoiler: show

I'll throw together a quick reads list. I haven't done it this style in a while, it'll be nostalgic.

T^M = town side of the mean
S^M = scum side of the mean

Beck -- T^M -- I appreciate his quick-fire posting style, and he seemed to be playing loosely. I haven't taken issue with what he's put in the thread yet. If there's any problem, it's that the combination of his newness and his energy can be disarming. That's rather tinfoil though.

Boomslang -- T^M -- For the moment, I think he has mindmelded with me on the matter of leetic. I am a bit wary that he might be the real opportunist in this scenario (capitalizing against leetic instead of leetic capitalizing against me), but I do get the impression he arrived at some of his perspective independent of my commentary.

DrWilgy -- S^M -- I'm not inclined to reward total non-involvement with a positive read. I have no inspiring basis for a scum read either though.

Epignosis -- S^M -- I am not alarmed by his more docile approach so far, given what happened in Triskaidekaphobia (he and I devoured an entire day phase in a futile town/town death match). I'd still like to know what I have posted that he feels lacks a genuine eagerness or otherwise presents a false eagerness. Without an answer to that query I am still unable to feel better about his early move against me.

Golden -- T^M -- There's a slight twitch in the back of my mind about him, I think perhaps given the degree to which we've been on the same page regarding Ricochet and Epignosis. However, on the latter player his voice was first not mine. I won't succumb to tinfoil on this read right now.

insertnamehere -- T^M -- While his approach to this game so far has frustrated me, it has largely mirrored what was seen in Battlestar Galactica and Triskaidekaphobia when he was town. Reminder to self: look into his play in The Office when he was bad for potential differences.

leetic -- S^M -- I've covered it already. Opportunism in the form of a bizarre accusation against me that didn't seem applicable to the post he attached it to.

Metalmarsh89 -- T^M -- He said earlier that he wants to perform better in this game after laying an egg in his previous game. I find that believable and I think his play so far is indicative of that. I appreciate the looseness with which he has played.

MovingPictures07 -- T^M -- This is probably my most tentative town read. I won't give him brownie points for being unavailable; however, I do think he'd probably be making a bit more of an effort to look the part here if he was bad. He'd be forcing reads into the thread or pretending to generate discussion or something.

Quin -- T^M -- I think his handling of the Sloonei/Scotty dialogue looked good, and I liked his explanation of the one question I had for him earlier.

Ricochet -- S^M -- The thing most giving me pause about Ricochet as a baddie read is the level of effort he is playing with, but I have to remind myself that there's very little likelihood that a baddie Ricochet would play any other way. I have already voiced my concerns.

S~V~S -- T^M -- Unlike DrWilgy, we have a valid excuse for her lack of involvement so far. I'll play the odds.

Scotty -- T^M -- I want to believe him when he says he is trying something new this Day 1. I'd be disappointed if that turned out to be smoke and mirrors. I haven't found his content suspicious at face value. I do think Sloonei put him in a position of pressure and I'll continue to follow that dialogue, but for the moment I am not inclined to vote there.

Sloonei -- T^M -- I like his tactic for interrogating Scotty, it strikes me as an organic and spontaneously generated method that can yield productive conversation. He's been a bit restrictive in his dealings with Quin, but I am inclined to attribute that to his desire to be thorough and not let up as opposed to any nefarious tunneling.

He called Scotty good and Quin bad.

He reminded himself to read INH in The Office.
3J, did you ever do that? If so, what did you find?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

None of this would interest me but for the fact that Scotty didn't vote to save himself. Ironically, he kept asking me if I would save myself. So the idea of self-preservation was clearly on his mind, but he himself didn't even try.

Something more elaborate is going on.

Scotty's vote on leetic was self-preservatory at least until the very end of the day phase when the INH wagon appeared. Perhaps there's some meaning in the fact that Scotty did not move his vote to INH, but I think that'd reflect more poorly on INH than on leetic. I think it depends upon just how present Scotty was when he was offed. I'll go look.

[Sloonei]

3J was the one waving his hands around yelling at us to vote INH when Scotty went down. On the surface, that's a blatant save attempt. Now his narrative is that I killed Golden to make lynching him easier, as though anybody was going to listen to Golden "Quin is 100% Mafia."

On the other hand, DrWilgy voted for 3J with no articulated thought- not even any pretense of thought. Furthermore, Golden was strong in his stance against a 3J lynch, and even though he was wrong about Quin, at least he wasn't trying to deceive anyone.

I was also waving my hands and yelling to lynch INH instead of Scotty.

You were also riding the credit crest of the Scotty lynch.

You mean with posts like these?

I think INH is bad and saw an easy opportunity to spin tomorrow's lynch on me if/when Scotty flips town. Vote for him.

Sorry Scotty. It didn't want any of this to go down like this.

I think INH is bad and saw an easy opportunity to spin tomorrow's lynch on me if/when Scotty flips town. Vote for him.

Yes I expect Scotty to flip town.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

He reminded himself to read INH in The Office.
3J, did you ever do that? If so, what did you find?

I later corrected myself; it was Psych where INH was bad and not The Office. I found that in Psych, INH was generally critical of Day 1 suspicions, but perhaps less pointed in his specific griefs with specific people. In The Office he was town, and I thought his arguments with me in that game looked just like the ones in this game (and his arguments with Golden).

[Epignosis]

3J was the one waving his hands around yelling at us to vote INH when Scotty went down. On the surface, that's a blatant save attempt. Now his narrative is that I killed Golden to make lynching him easier, as though anybody was going to listen to Golden "Quin is 100% Mafia."

On the other hand, DrWilgy voted for 3J with no articulated thought- not even any pretense of thought. Furthermore, Golden was strong in his stance against a 3J lynch, and even though he was wrong about Quin, at least he wasn't trying to deceive anyone.

I was also waving my hands and yelling to lynch INH instead of Scotty.

You were also riding the credit crest of the Scotty lynch.

You mean with posts like these?

I think INH is bad and saw an easy opportunity to spin tomorrow's lynch on me if/when Scotty flips town. Vote for him.

Sorry Scotty. It didn't want any of this to go down like this.

I think INH is bad and saw an easy opportunity to spin tomorrow's lynch on me if/when Scotty flips town. Vote for him.

Yes I expect Scotty to flip town.

No. I mean posts that other people made.

[Epignosis]

He reminded himself to read INH in The Office.
3J, did you ever do that? If so, what did you find?

I later corrected myself; it was Psych where INH was bad and not The Office. I found that in Psych, INH was generally critical of Day 1 suspicions, but perhaps less pointed in his specific griefs with specific people. In The Office he was town, and I thought his arguments with me in that game looked just like the ones in this game (and his arguments with Golden).

I knew dat.

[Quin]

'Quin' has been mentioned 275 times so far in this game. 'Quin' was mentioned 897 times in Turf Wars.

We're at 316 now, folks.

So how about all those town reads of mine. Am I wrong about someone?

I don't agree with your reasons for town-reading the marmot, but I appreciate the points you're making. That's off the top of my head, I'll do you one better when I've had lunch and made some more progress with my presentation.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Scotty's last post prior to dying:

Spoiler: show

Quin, I think it was you who said it was suspicious if I change up my day 1 strategies from my norm. Damned if I do, damned if I don't. I don't like giving tone reads on day 1, because I'm generally bad at them, but I figured practice makes perfect. It in this case, practice makes me get lynched day 1. So...cumquats.

This is what I was afraid of. I am inclined to believe Scotty that he wanted to mix up his Day 1 methods after getting crap for it frequently in recent memory. Scotty: if you're town and this doesn't end in your favor, I'd still encourage you to keep trying in future games. At least then people won't be able to say it's atypical.

I'd prefer we don't lynch Scotty.

It's fine. It never hurts in the long run to keep changing strategies. My day 1 low poster thing evolved from getting too involved in day 1 and often getting either mislynched day 1 or nightkilled that night, plus possibly getting a baddie, so I'm not completely averse to trying new things.

Either way, I hope you guys at least learn a few things from my lynch here

This came 12 minutes prior to the deadline. At this point, Sloonei and I had both already moved our votes to INH. Ricochet had not yet voted for INH.

This means that when Scotty made his final post, leetic had 2 votes (including Scotty himself) and INH had 2 votes. Scotty's vote can still be viewed as a self-preservation vote.

[Epignosis]

Scotty's last post prior to dying:

Spoiler: show

Quin, I think it was you who said it was suspicious if I change up my day 1 strategies from my norm. Damned if I do, damned if I don't. I don't like giving tone reads on day 1, because I'm generally bad at them, but I figured practice makes perfect. It in this case, practice makes me get lynched day 1. So...cumquats.

This is what I was afraid of. I am inclined to believe Scotty that he wanted to mix up his Day 1 methods after getting crap for it frequently in recent memory. Scotty: if you're town and this doesn't end in your favor, I'd still encourage you to keep trying in future games. At least then people won't be able to say it's atypical.

I'd prefer we don't lynch Scotty.

It's fine. It never hurts in the long run to keep changing strategies. My day 1 low poster thing evolved from getting too involved in day 1 and often getting either mislynched day 1 or nightkilled that night, plus possibly getting a baddie, so I'm not completely averse to trying new things.

Either way, I hope you guys at least learn a few things from my lynch here

This came 12 minutes prior to the deadline. At this point, Sloonei and I had both already moved our votes to INH. Ricochet had not yet voted for INH.

This means that when Scotty made his final post, leetic had 2 votes (including Scotty himself) and INH had 2 votes. Scotty's vote can still be viewed as a self-preservation vote.

You don't think the guy was around to move his vote when he was here twelve minutes before the lynch? He plays mafia while he drives for crisesakes.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You don't think the guy was around to move his vote when he was here twelve minutes before the lynch? He plays mafia while he drives for crisesakes.

I dunno. If he was here, the one he didn't vote for is still INH. Would you disagree that this would pose a bigger problem for INH than leetic?

[Epignosis]

You don't think the guy was around to move his vote when he was here twelve minutes before the lynch? He plays mafia while he drives for crisesakes.

I dunno. If he was here, the one he didn't vote for is still INH. Would you disagree that this would pose a bigger problem for INH than leetic?

No, I wouldn't.

Huh.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Serial Killer hunt -- insertnamehere:

Spoiler: show

I think what he means is... actually, I've spent five minutes looking at this and can't figure it out. Leetic claims JJJ won't do something, but the post he's criticizing doesn't have JJJ claiming an action. And we haven't gotten any clarification on it. Adding a vote to leetic for the moment for extra pressure.

I do think inh rushing to leetic's defense is a bit suspicious. Leetic's post may be hamfisted shade, but it was a clear attempt at shade.

Boomslang's Day 1 vote fell on leetic, but he also voiced suspicion of INH.

~~~

Spoiler: show

Not liking that Marmot vote. I am full throttle on this INH thing. Lynch him tomorrow or else.

Just throw a kid in INH's pit. That'll do the job.

WIlgy 1.0 said this. I don't know.

~~~

Spoiler: show

It's easy for me to say after seeing scotty's lynch, but I do believe if I were around for EoD I would have switched to inh. But, y'know - wifom.

It's just one of those things about having to vote 7 or 8 hours before the deadline. Sorry Scotty.

After Scotty's town flip but before his mafia flip, Golden said this: had he been around, he'd have probably voted INH.

Spoiler: show

Oh goodie. Feel much better about my vote (and what my gut was saying) now.

Quin goes right back on the table, for one. Quin, were you actually doubting sloonei? For me, sloonei is townie number one and was even with scotty's town flip.

In fact, I'm feeling a bit 'mafia championship' about this, and I'm saying that at this point sloonei, Jay and epi are not in my PoE. Don't ask me what PoE stands for, I never figured that out. Rico probably isn't either.

I need to look back on that End of Day, but I see no reason based on recollection to rule inh or leetic out, despite scotty being bad. So, my PoE at the moment is:

Beck, Boomslang, Wilgy, inh, leetic, MM, MP, Quin, SVS, maybe rico (need to revisit).

INH was in his initial Night 1 PoE.

Spoiler: show

My initial thoughts of the Scotty votes:

They all look better than before. Golden had no obligation to participate in the anti-Scotty thread climate given his more limited availability, but he did it anyway. If he was bad I am not sure he'd show the same enthusiasm and initiative. Epignosis had every opportunity to move his at EOD and he did not. leetic's utter failure to say a word when he placed his self-preservation vote (SPV) might actually make it better than the average SPV. If he is offing his own team mate in the process, I figure he would say something to try to cash in on some of the associated town credit. INH's vote was numerically important, as it put Scotty in the lead. MM's vote was essentially a hammer vote.

Not entirely true. For what it's worth, Epignosis wasn't really around at the EoD.

Also, INH's vote is hardly numerically important when he was the countervote, especially if the baddies expected Scotty to appear town. No reason for me to see that particular vote as making him look better.

I disagree with you on epi, though. Epi is town.

Countered the notion that INH's Scotty vote was numerically important.

Has INH at neutral and well within the PoE on Day 2.

Spoiler: show

I'd say its quin

And one of beck/MP/SVS

I don't think it's naive to think there are no baddies on the inh wagon. There were only two baddies not named scotty. Scotty didn't jump on the inh wagon, scotty came back civ initially, I think there was no intent to endeavour to save him.

I think Quin voted sloonei because it was very intentional for quin to then push sloonei after scotty came back town.

I think this game really is the easy mode it appears to be.

Golden implies he trusts everyone who voted INH on Day 1.

Spoiler: show

3J I'll respond to that after my lynch analysis.

Spoiler: marmot looks bad. How do you feel about him?

I could see marmot being bad. Especially if INH is bad, because it makes sense marmot would look to push scotty over the edge if he is a seemer, rather than lose inh, when the pair of them were fighting on day 1.

I really find inh shifty. Yesterday he called my case on you good, but basically absolved himself from it just based on me being arrogant. I don't like when people use ad hominem in place of detective work. I'm going to take whatever tone I like if I think it might be effective, and actually even while I left my vote on Quin I thought the best point in his favour was his reasoning for giving me a town read.

He also literally ignored posts endeavouring to get him to put in rational thought while accusing others of trying to stop rational thought.

On Night 2, Golden was more negative in his language about INH.

INH is alone at the bottom of Golden's rainbow list

Spoiler: show

OK. A lot of what I find suspicious in inh is completely replicated there, even to the extent that he is telling Matt that his methods are 'downright harmful to the town'.

*sigh* - I mean, it's disappointing. INH was disappointed in me, now I'm disappointed in him. I don't understand why he is spending so much effort on attacking my game style (something that is almost always completely irrelevant to alignment from any player), but perhaps this is something he legitimately finds suspicious.

I think I need to read INH back. I see why you are at rey and wilgy, Jay.

Golden's confidence in scum reading INH waned when I brought up the similarities to The Office. I don't, however, think INH registered this because he still seemed to think Golden was going to vote for him today.

~~~

Ricochet voted for INH on Day 1. I don't think he ever really gave up that suspicion, but it's hard to tell in his tweets.

~~~

I see a visible motive for INH to have killed 2 of these 4 people, and maybe 3 if you count Rico. That's noteworthy.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Serial Killer hunt: leetic:

Boomslang was the only townie to agree with my Day 1 suspicion of leetic, and that's where his vote stayed.

~~~

DrWilgy 1.0 said nothing about leetic.

~~~

Hmm... leetic, why so quiet?

Spoiler: show

I just realised I need to final vote now, because I won't wake up before the lynch.

That made me briefly consider moving to leetic, but I think back to many day ones recently where I've voted for someone who ends up getting lynched for, essentially, phoning it in a little in a way that makes them look bad, and they keep being town. It makes me hesitate from doing a reactive vote on to someone I don't have a genuine read on.

Scotty isn't phoning it in... it felt like sloonei genuinely caught him in something.

So, I'll keep my vote on scotty and revisit leetic tomorrow.

Golden gave him a little shade on Day 1, but nothing serious.

Golden had him in his first PoE.

He agreed with my reason for removing leetic from the PoE, meaning he no longer suspected him.

Strong town read on Day 2

Same on Night 2

Golden still likes leetic in his very last post.

~~~

Rico thought leetic looked the least suspicious of the 5 Scotty voters before Scotty's mafia flip but after his town flip.

Rico agrees with my town read on leetic on Day 2.

~~~~~~~~

The only one here that would seem to have been any threat to leetic was Boomslang. I guess he's technically a candidate, but I doubt it. I'm not sure he's even logged into the site recently enough to have sent a Night 2 kill.

[Quin]

leetic logged in yesterday, so it's possible that he was here to send in a kill.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Serial Killer hunt -- Metalmarsh89:

Boomslang made one off-hand mention of MM and it wasn't relevant.

~~~

DrWilgy 1.0 said nothing about MM.

~~~

Spoiler: show

More specifically, is this quote from scotty, taken together with MM's vote, able to be seen as indicating that there probably isn't a teammate relationship?

I tend to think MM comes out looking pretty good, interested in opinions.

Epi, I answered your question. MM said you were a suspect, and he stuck to it. As for his reasoning, yeah, it's weak, but at least he's making an accusation. That's why I view him as more civ than usual.

Golden liked MM after the Scotty mafia flip.

Strong town read on Day 2

Down to mild town on Night 2.

Suggested in his final post that there is a viable theory to be stated that INH and MM are team mates, though he still didn't lean that way.

~~~

Ricochet was quite unamused by Marmot for the whole game, as far as I can remember. He didn't like Marmot's treatment of him, he didn't like my treatment of Marmot, he didn't feel inclined to give Marmot credit for his Scotty vote, etc. After the Scotty town flip he called Marmot his #1 suspect, and I don't think he quite took the opposite stance after the flip reversed.

~~~~~~~~~~

I think there's a tinfoil motive that MM killed Golden, perhaps even if the baddies remaining are literally INH and MM (which would mean the Day 1 wagons were scum/scum and MM's vote was much less meaningful). I don't think all of the evidence points to this reality though. I'd be willing to discuss it.

For serial killer candidacy, I can see a motive for him to kill Golden and Ricochet. That's something.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Serial Killer hunt -- Beck / Quin 2.0:

Boomslang said nothing about Beck. He was gone before the replacement.

~~~

DrWilgy 1.0 said nothing about Beck. He was gone before the replacement.

~~~

Beck is in Golden's initial PoE.

Neutral read and still in the PoE on Day 2.

Spoiler: show

I'd say its quin

And one of beck/MP/SVS

I don't think it's naive to think there are no baddies on the inh wagon. There were only two baddies not named scotty. Scotty didn't jump on the inh wagon, scotty came back civ initially, I think there was no intent to endeavour to save him.

I think Quin voted sloonei because it was very intentional for quin to then push sloonei after scotty came back town.

I think this game really is the easy mode it appears to be.

He had Beck as one of his top candidates to be a team mate of the hypothetical scum Quin 1.0.

Spoiler: show

Golden, who are your top 3 suspects?

Quin
Mp (rey or wilgy?)
Beck

Beck is a top three suspect on Day 2.

Spoiler: show

Here is logic for you. If you know the last scum is one of three people, and you have three lynches up your sleeve, it matters not what order you lynch them in. If Quin wasn't lynched yesterday, he was going to be lynched today, or tomorrow. He was going to flip the same role no matter when he flipped. Lynching Quin was not a mistake, it was a necessity. It would have been better if he was bad, but already he is making becks spot look a whole lot better.

Golden liked Quin 2.0 immediately.

Golden removed him from the PoE and called him a strong town read.

He reiterated that in his last post.

~~~

Spoiler: show

oh so it's D0? that's lame

i don't wanna talk to any of you guys i just wanna vote for you!

I like this guy. Less talking, more voting, come Day 1.

This guy is a Trump voter and will help make America great again. Strong town. Good!

I'm Rick O'Shay and I approve this read.

Rico liked Beck on Day 0.

Rico expanded on his fondness for Beck.

Rico didn't say much about Quin 2.0 other than to sarcastically support lynching him as a PoE member.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

I don't see a reason for Beck or Quin to kill any of these people. I could say Quin 2.0 killed Golden as vengeance for Quin 1.0.

I don't think he's a good SK candidate.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Serial Killer hunt -- MovingPictures07 / reywaS[/url]

Boomslang didn't mention MP. He was gone before the replacement.

~~~

DrWilgy didn't mention MP. He was gone before the replacement.

~~~

Neutral read and in the PoE on Day 2

Leans towards a Scotty/Quin/MP scum team

Spoiler: show

Golden, who are your top 3 suspects?

Quin
Mp (rey or wilgy?)
Beck

Still a top three suspect.

Neutral read and in the PoE on Night 2

Spoiler: show

OK. A lot of what I find suspicious in inh is completely replicated there, even to the extent that he is telling Matt that his methods are 'downright harmful to the town'.

*sigh* - I mean, it's disappointing. INH was disappointed in me, now I'm disappointed in him. I don't understand why he is spending so much effort on attacking my game style (something that is almost always completely irrelevant to alignment from any player), but perhaps this is something he legitimately finds suspicious.

I think I need to read INH back. I see why you are at rey and wilgy, Jay.

He ended up coming to pretty much the same conclusion I did. The PoE was reduced to just Wilgy 2.0 and reywaS.

In his last post, Golden said he thought reywaS was slightly worse than Wilgy just because he was replaced first.

~~~

Rico playfully supported Beck in his Day 0/1 moves against MP. Beyond that he didn't talk about this slot much other than to gripe about Golden and I wanted to lynch it despite it being unreadable.

~~~~~~~~~~

I see a motive for reywaS to kill Golden. It's the same motive Wilgy would have, though I can't mechanically remove him from SK-contention like I did with Wilgy. I think he's a great candidate to be mafia and a plausible candidate to be the serial killer.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Serial Killer hunt: Sloonei:

Boomslang never mentioned Sloonei.

~~~

DrWilgy 1.0 never mentioned Sloonei.

~~~

Golden had Sloonei as pretty much a lock townie ever since the Scotty mafia flip. I don't think I need to pull out all of the posts.

~~~

Rico debated with him briefly about his read on me and MM.

A little shade thrown Sloonei's way just prior to Scotty's town flip. And [url=http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=1142&p=297732#p297732]again.

Otherwise I don't think there's much content to discuss.

~~~~~~~~~~~

The only one to gripe at Sloonei at all was Rico, and that was hardly motive for a kill. I don't think Sloonei is a great SK candidate.