RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The people I most want to hear from are either not present (reywaS, INH) or aren't saying anything substantial (Wilgy).

[Marmot]

I'm bored and drinking. Where's the talk?

I'm making dinner. Leftover potato and leek soup.

[Epignosis]

The people I most want to hear from are either not present (reywaS, INH) or aren't saying anything substantial (Wilgy).

I doubt you're going to hear from rey. From my experience, he comes in happy as hell to play or sub in, and then fucks off elsewhere. I don't get it. He's been that way forever.

INH has been around and has participated. Why won't he say anything?

DrWilgy I won't pretend to understand. He's Vompatti's cousin.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The deadline is in 14 hours and the Americans are going to sleep.

Apparently 72 hours isn't enough.

[Epignosis]

The deadline is in 14 hours and the Americans are going to sleep.

Apparently 72 hours isn't enough.

I still feel like I'm fucking up not voting you.

[Marmot]

You've always been a fuck up in my book Rob.

[Epignosis]

You've always been a fuck up in my book Rob.

Fuckin' A.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I still feel like I'm fucking up not voting you.

That you're willing to make that judgment call despite that concern is ideal town play, assuming that's what you are. I think the majority of hypothetical townies out there would fuck up by voting me. I'm sig.

[Marmot]

The people I most want to hear from are either not present (reywaS, INH) or aren't saying anything substantial (Wilgy).

What do you make of leetic?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The people I most want to hear from are either not present (reywaS, INH) or aren't saying anything substantial (Wilgy).

What do you make of leetic?

All I can say is that the one Scotty vote made him look good. I hope my judgment of that moment is correct, because it's the only thing there is to judge.

[Marmot]

I don't really know what to talk about, so I'm just gonna hang out and drink.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don't really know what to talk about, so I'm just gonna hang out and drink.

You seem to like Wilgy slightly more than reywaS. Why?

[insertnamehere]

I just voted INH.

I'd like to know why.

I was reading through INH. It's a small thing, but:

And I'm very rarely 100% sure of anyone's alignment. Although, if I am, it's probably Epignosis. And I've been right about him for the last two games.

Yeah, you really got me with that, "He's either Shawn or a confused civilian but totally not Yin oh no wait he's Yin."

You should be a politician.

I thought you were Yin ever since my team failed to NK you, I just didn't announce so in the thread.

INH made like he was some expert on me. When I called him on it, he raised the fact that he was bad in that game...which was the entire point of my response.

Since then, he's called me good. That doesn't sit right with me looking back.

Really?

That's all it took, that's your case?

Maybe I just have a fundamental misunderstanding of that interaction. I'd certainly like to know what you got out of it.

Here's my interpretation:

I say that I've been able to successfully read Epi the last two game we've played. He says that I was wishy-washy in Psych, and changed my mind about him multiple times during the course of the game. I say that I was convinced of his negative alignment after my baddie team failed to NK him, and I acted wishy-washy for strategic purposes. Therefore I did successfully read him that game, as he was a part of a different baddie team.

Now, in this game, I've been getting good vibes off of you, and I don't see some of the stuff I saw as scummy behavior in the last two games.

How is that suspicious?

[insertnamehere]

My proposed Day 3 lynch is 3J.

The only people I townread right now are Epi and Sloonei. Everybody else I have conflicting feelings towards.

What changed?

You're my strongest baddie read, 3J. Just because I have one of those doesn't mean I trust everyone else.

Those statements aren't contradictory.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I say that I've been able to successfully read Epi the last two game we've played. He says that I was wishy-washy in Psych, and changed my mind about him multiple times during the course of the game. I say that I was convinced of his negative alignment after my baddie team failed to NK him, and I acted wishy-washy for strategic purposes. Therefore I did successfully read him that game, as he was a part of a different baddie team.

If you knew he was bad because of a failed night kill, then that's a piece of mechanical information that tipped you off -- suggesting you'd have no special capability to judge his behavior. Do I misunderstand?

[Marmot]

I don't really know what to talk about, so I'm just gonna hang out and drink.

You seem to like Wilgy slightly more than reywaS. Why?

In a LYLO situation, I'd rather have DrWilgy around than an MIA reywaS.

[Epignosis]

What stuff, INH?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

My proposed Day 3 lynch is 3J.

The only people I townread right now are Epi and Sloonei. Everybody else I have conflicting feelings towards.

What changed?

You're my strongest baddie read, 3J. Just because I have one of those doesn't mean I trust everyone else.

Those statements aren't contradictory.

I didn't say they were contradictory. I asked you what changed. You said "everyone else" (other than Epi and Sloonei) gave you conflicting feelings. I am a part of that "everyone else". I wanted to know what inspired your conflicting feelings about me.

Recall that earlier you had called me an "obvious baddie".

[insertnamehere]

The best case I can think of to label MM a mafia member is to call him a team mate of INH. In that scenario, the two largest wagons at the end of Day 1 would have been scum/scum, thus rendering MM's hammer vote less valuable. Indeed he'd have been sparing one team mate for another who flipped town at first. I do think this theory still requires some reaching, but evidence exists.

I'd very much like to know how MM and INH read each other right now.

I'd give a read on MM. I don't like his vote bandying about that he's employed in the past, specifically in the Day 2 lynch when he tipped the balance against Quin 1.0.

Most of the things I'm not a huge fan of are his interactions with you, and those are only scummy if in fact you are bad.

That's my other reason for wanting to lynch you today. I believe that not only are you the most likely person to be bad, but you'd also be the most informative and educational lynch.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

That's my other reason for wanting to lynch you today. I believe that not only are you the most likely person to be bad, but you'd also be the most informative and educational lynch.

What information and education do you acquire when I flip town and the rest of you proceed toward a LyLo phase?

[Marmot]

The best case I can think of to label MM a mafia member is to call him a team mate of INH. In that scenario, the two largest wagons at the end of Day 1 would have been scum/scum, thus rendering MM's hammer vote less valuable. Indeed he'd have been sparing one team mate for another who flipped town at first. I do think this theory still requires some reaching, but evidence exists.

I'd very much like to know how MM and INH read each other right now.

I'd give a read on MM. I don't like his vote bandying about that he's employed in the past, specifically in the Day 2 lynch when he tipped the balance against Quin 1.0.

Most of the things I'm not a huge fan of are his interactions with you, and those are only scummy if in fact you are bad.

That's my other reason for wanting to lynch you today. I believe that not only are you the most likely person to be bad, but you'd also be the most informative and educational lynch.

I vote how I please, wherever the hell I please. (This smiley needs to be added tbh).

What information would a Jay lynch give us in either direction?

[insertnamehere]

What stuff, INH?

Are you referring to this?

Now, in this game, I've been getting good vibes off of you, and I don't see some of the stuff I saw as scummy behavior in the last two games.

I'd be hardpressed to come up with super specific tells, it's more me disliking who you chose to go after in both games, and tone BS.

If I represented myself as some kind of Epignosis expert, I apologize. I just meant that I feel confident enough about you in my own head to label you as a townread in this game.

I still have not seen a reason that this makes me more suspicious than 3J.

[Marmot]

I'm a tumbler, I'm a government man.

Vote insertnamehere

Take a look at these hands!

[insertnamehere]

My proposed Day 3 lynch is 3J.

The only people I townread right now are Epi and Sloonei. Everybody else I have conflicting feelings towards.

What changed?

You're my strongest baddie read, 3J. Just because I have one of those doesn't mean I trust everyone else.

Those statements aren't contradictory.

I didn't say they were contradictory. I asked you what changed. You said "everyone else" (other than Epi and Sloonei) gave you conflicting feelings. I am a part of that "everyone else". I wanted to know what inspired your conflicting feelings about me.

Recall that earlier you had called me an "obvious baddie".

I liked your lengthy ISO's and the prolific amount of posting you did earlier today. Any time anybody does a shitton of solid analysis, I appreciate that.

I very rarely am 100% convinced of one person's alignment one way or the other. There are always shades of gray. You're just the shadiest one here.

That post was me basically saying my two townreads, and stating that I didn't feel strongly positive about anyone else.

[insertnamehere]

I'm a tumbler, I'm a government man.

Vote insertnamehere

Take a look at these hands!

i'm guessing that asking "why" would be useless

[Marmot]

I'm a tumbler, I'm a government man.

Vote insertnamehere

Take a look at these hands!

i'm guessing that asking "why" would be useless

Hold the phone, let me come up with a reason.

[insertnamehere]

That's my other reason for wanting to lynch you today. I believe that not only are you the most likely person to be bad, but you'd also be the most informative and educational lynch.

What information and education do you acquire when I flip town and the rest of you proceed toward a LyLo phase?

You've been the damn center of attention of this game for a decent sized chunk of it.

Everybody has given opinions on you, and you've given opinions on everyone else.

You flipping either way, even though I have a pretty good guess as to which way you will flip, would provide context to a whole swath of interactions, and yes, may make me look bad. I'm willing to take that chance.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I liked your lengthy ISO's and the prolific amount of posting you did earlier today. Any time anybody does a shitton of solid analysis, I appreciate that.

Did you not feel that way when I did the exact same thing earlier in the game?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'd also like to know who you think the serial killer is, INH.

[insertnamehere]

I'm a tumbler, I'm a government man.

Vote insertnamehere

Take a look at these hands!

if you do have to vote for me, you could certainly have chosen a worse song.

THANK YOU THANK YOU YEAH DON'T EVEN MENTION IT

[insertnamehere]

I liked your lengthy ISO's and the prolific amount of posting you did earlier today. Any time anybody does a shitton of solid analysis, I appreciate that.

Did you not feel that way when I did the exact same thing earlier in the game?

I did, but other things still made me suspect you.

Next question of the utterly expected Spanish Inquistion, please.

[Marmot]

This serial killer talk is just a distraction from the main course: MAFIA!

The heat goes on.

[insertnamehere]

I'd also like to know who you think the serial killer is, INH.

Shit man, I don't know. I don't like how you've assumed that it is a serial killer and not a vigilante or some other unseen role. If there is in fact one, I think it's a fairly active player, probably not one of the inactives.

I could see MM or even Epi in that role, now that I think about it. Granted, this is kind of the first time I have thought about it. You yourself say that we need to lynch a baddie and not the "SK" today, but you're devoting almost half of your time to researching possibilities and questioning others about the "SK".

For now, I'm focused on the baddies. And to me, that means you.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Here's my present concern, INH.

I'm not sold on you being bad. I think the case can be made, but it's not a case that I feel great about. However, right now I get the impression that you were counting on me being lynched -- it's in all of your language. You're asking Epi why you're more suspicious than 3J. You're asserting that my lynch is not only the most "likely" to yield a productive flip, but that it'd also be the most informative. You made it quite obvious after Quin 1.0 flipped town that you were committing the eggs in your basket to my lynch eventually, and though you've expressed minor doubts it still seems to be at the forefront of everything you're saying (even where it isn't pertinent).

Specifically it's that "more suspicious than 3J" thing you're feeding Epignosis that is bugging me. I think it may support the INH-as-SK theory, where your premier concern would be getting out of this day alive -- and the obvious method for doing so is to use me as your meat shield.

[insertnamehere]

This serial killer talk is just a distraction from the main course: MAFIA!

The heat goes on.

that's exactly what the serial killer would say!

inb4 "MM has been NK'd, he was GARY JOHNSON."

I'M CATCHING UP WITH MYSELF.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'd also like to know who you think the serial killer is, INH.

Shit man, I don't know. I don't like how you've assumed that it is a serial killer and not a vigilante or some other unseen role. If there is in fact one, I think it's a fairly active player, probably not one of the inactives.

I could see MM or even Epi in that role, now that I think about it. Granted, this is kind of the first time I have thought about it. You yourself say that we need to lynch a baddie and not the "SK" today, but you're devoting almost half of your time to researching possibilities and questioning others about the "SK".

For now, I'm focused on the baddies. And to me, that means you.

I have made it crystal clear who I think the baddies are and that I want to lynch one of them first.

I've also used my time to search for a SK. It's been a 72 hour day phase, and I want to win the damned game. Ignoring a faction doesn't win the damned game. It could be a vigilante, but I doubt it. For a moment I entertained MM as a vigilante, but he kind of disqualified himself when he revealed that he was considering Wilgy 2.0 as a possible vigilante. I don't think you're a vigilante if you're randomly throwing MM or Epignosis into SK contention.

[insertnamehere]

Here's my present concern, INH.

I'm not sold on you being bad. I think the case can be made, but it's not a case that I feel great about. However, right now I get the impression that you were counting on me being lynched -- it's in all of your language. You're asking Epi why you're more suspicious than 3J. You're asserting that my lynch is not only the most "likely" to yield a productive flip, but that it'd also be the most informative. You made it quite obvious after Quin 1.0 flipped town that you were committing the eggs in your basket to my lynch eventually, and though you've expressed minor doubts it still seems to be at the forefront of everything you're saying (even where it isn't pertinent).

Specifically it's that "more suspicious than 3J" thing you're feeding Epignosis that is bugging me. I think it may support the INH-as-SK theory, where your premier concern would be getting out of this day alive -- and the obvious method for doing so is to use me as your meat shield.

Epi has been gunning for you most of the game, but has relaxed his stance on you, even though he outlined some pretty damning things this phase, namely in this post:

I decided to do this differently. Instead of pulling quotes and all that, I'm just going to summarize my view.

1. 3J argued with Ricochet over pointless things.

I suspected you early on because I believed your back and forth with Ricochet was nitpicky and exploded into something stupid. I also believe you were nitpicking over things I thought were obvious.

2. 3J fought against Scott's lynch.

The biggest issue is that 3J wanted INH dead (or leetic) instead of Scotty. Why did you do this, and why wouldn't you let Scotty die?

3. 3J voted for Quin.

I understand you were the counter choice, but if you are good, and you get to win with you faction, then I would think you would have been doing what it is you are doing now. Now it looks like you are trying to scare people from voting you. See below.

4. 3J called me the serial killer.

This was your first reaction to the idea of a serial killer. You came after me.

I could see Epignosis killing Golden. Dual function -- eliminate the only person threatening him while also making me an easier lynch. Even if he isn't mafia he could be an SK.

For this to make sense, I want you to tell me whom you couldn't see me killing. You used a linguistic formula I love. "I could see." So who couldn't you see me killing?

I'm not sold on voting for you. I want to give you a chance. Go.

I wanted to see if he had anything against me that had more substance than the above points.

[Marmot]

This serial killer talk is just a distraction from the main course: MAFIA!

The heat goes on.

that's exactly what the serial killer would say!

inb4 "MM has been NK'd, he was GARY JOHNSON."

I'M CATCHING UP WITH MYSELF.

And you may say to yourself "My god, what have I done?"



Seriously though, this game is Red vs. Blue mafia. That sounds pretty two-sided-gary-johnson-excluding-politcal-hoggwash right there.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I wanted to see if he had anything against me that had more substance than the above points.

That's what I am saying. You're clearly very conscious of what Epignosis was thinking when he presented that case against me, and that for a large portion of this game he has been willing to vote for me. Now he is voting for you instead, and instead of focusing solely on that, you're talking about me. This is what I am seeing:

Oh shit. I thought for sure JJJ would have a pile of votes by now. How does this guy slip out of the noose so much? Now I'm leading the tally! Ohhh man this isn't how this was supposed to happen.

[insertnamehere]

Here's my present concern, INH.

I'm not sold on you being bad. I think the case can be made, but it's not a case that I feel great about.

Nice attempt at distancing while still semi-encouraging my lynch.

However, right now I get the impression that you were counting on me being lynched -- it's in all of your language. You're asking Epi why you're more suspicious than 3J. You're asserting that my lynch is not only the most "likely" to yield a productive flip, but that it'd also be the most informative. You made it quite obvious after Quin 1.0 flipped town that you were committing the eggs in your basket to my lynch eventually, and though you've expressed minor doubts it still seems to be at the forefront of everything you're saying (even where it isn't pertinent).

Specifically it's that "more suspicious than 3J" thing you're feeding Epignosis that is bugging me. I think it may support the INH-as-SK theory, where your premier concern would be getting out of this day alive -- and the obvious method for doing so is to use me as your meat shield.

You're the person who I have the strongest scummiest feelings about in this game. You yourself said, we need to lynch a baddie today, or else we may be screwed.

Why the hell shouldn't I be going after you full-bore?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Here's my present concern, INH.

I'm not sold on you being bad. I think the case can be made, but it's not a case that I feel great about.

Nice attempt at distancing while still semi-encouraging my lynch.

You just told me you liked my big analytic posts, but you still think I'm likely to be bad. Should I throw the same stupid accusation in your direction?

However, right now I get the impression that you were counting on me being lynched -- it's in all of your language. You're asking Epi why you're more suspicious than 3J. You're asserting that my lynch is not only the most "likely" to yield a productive flip, but that it'd also be the most informative. You made it quite obvious after Quin 1.0 flipped town that you were committing the eggs in your basket to my lynch eventually, and though you've expressed minor doubts it still seems to be at the forefront of everything you're saying (even where it isn't pertinent).

Specifically it's that "more suspicious than 3J" thing you're feeding Epignosis that is bugging me. I think it may support the INH-as-SK theory, where your premier concern would be getting out of this day alive -- and the obvious method for doing so is to use me as your meat shield.

You're the person who I have the strongest scummiest feelings about in this game. You yourself said, we need to lynch a baddie today, or else we may be screwed.

Why the hell shouldn't I be going after you full-bore?

I don't think that's what you're doing. You're not "going after me". You're using me as a defense mechanism.

[insertnamehere]

I wanted to see if he had anything against me that had more substance than the above points.

That's what I am saying. You're clearly very conscious of what Epignosis was thinking when he presented that case against me, and that for a large portion of this game he has been willing to vote for me. Now he is voting for you instead, and instead of focusing solely on that, you're talking about me. This is what I am seeing:

Oh shit. I thought for sure JJJ would have a pile of votes by now. How does this guy slip out of the noose so much? Now I'm leading the tally! Ohhh man this isn't how this was supposed to happen.

Lemme go through this again: I think you're scum. I think there's a good chance that if we don't lynch a baddie, we'll be screwed. So yes, I'm trying to get you lynched today, 3J. That's not exactly a secret. It's what I think needs to happen if we want to have a shot at winning this game.

Also, Epi's case doesn't seem to be made on very much, so I'm not exactly sure what the hell else I can say about it. If somebody goes from having a really strong suspicion of someone I think is bad, to a weak suspicion of someone I think (or in this case know) is scum, I think asking what makes this new suspicion stronger than the old one is a valid question.

Furthermore, for someone who just keeps insisting that he isn't convinced that I'm scum "even though there's obviously a valid case to be made" and just assumed I'm not the "SK" because I brought up Epi and MM, you really keep trying to hammer at me, don't you?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Lemme go through this again: I think you're scum. I think there's a good chance that if we don't lynch a baddie, we'll be screwed. So yes, I'm trying to get you lynched today, 3J. That's not exactly a secret. It's what I think needs to happen if we want to have a shot at winning this game.

I'd prefer to lynch a mafia member. It'd be the ideal scenario. Lynching a SK wouldn't equal "screwed" though. It'd probably leave us in a 5 vs. 2 scenario with an even narrower pool of suspects and only one night kill.

Also, Epi's case doesn't seem to be made on very much, so I'm not exactly sure what the hell else I can say about it. If somebody goes from having a really strong suspicion of someone I think is bad, to a weak suspicion of someone I think (or in this case know) is scum, I think asking what makes this new suspicion stronger than the old one is a valid question.

You just called yourself scum.

Furthermore, for someone who just keeps insisting that he isn't convinced that I'm scum "even though there's obviously a valid case to be made" and just assumed I'm not the "SK" because I brought up Epi and MM, you really keep trying to hammer at me, don't you?

I said I don't think you're a vigilante. That doesn't mean you're not a serial killer.

[Marmot]

I've offered several reasons why I don't think there's a SK Jay. Why are you so keen on it existing?

[insertnamehere]

Here's my present concern, INH.

I'm not sold on you being bad. I think the case can be made, but it's not a case that I feel great about.

Nice attempt at distancing while still semi-encouraging my lynch.

You just told me you liked my big analytic posts, but you still think I'm likely to be bad. Should I throw the same stupid accusation in your direction?

Seeing as you essentially lured and goaded me into stating the first part of the first sentence, I don't think your attempt at a switcheroo really works.

Plus I'm not going "gee, I'm really not sure about 3J's alignment, but I guess I'm gonna vote for him".

I'm saying that I find you the most suspicious out of anyone. I'm not trying to distance myself at all here. If I'm wrong, I'm willing to accept the consequences. Though I doubt I'm wrong.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Let's play Is This Guy a Town Vigilante???

DrWilgy 2.0 -- replaced S~V~S, who was unable to deliver a kill. Nope.

Epignosis -- Presence makes it possible, but I don't know why he'd vigilante kill any of the people who were killed. He'd have probably offed me a while ago. Nope.

insertnamehere -- He was willing to entertain the idea of Epi or MM being a SK. Nope.

leetic -- Technically plausible. The only suspicion he has cast was on me, I'd expect to be dead. Probably nope.

Metalmarsh89 -- He entertained Wilgy 2.0 as a vigilante. Nope.

Quin 2.0 -- I have no idea why he'd kill either Rico or Golden. He's also done a little SK-hunting. Nope.

reywaS -- May not have logged in recently enough for a Night 2 kill. Probably nope.

Sloonei -- I have no idea why he'd kill either Rico or Golden. Probably nope.

~~~~~~~

I don't think anyone is a vigilante, but there're two kills happening every night. A SK likely exists.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I've offered several reasons why I don't think there's a SK Jay. Why are you so keen on it existing?

Hey good timing! Refute my prior post if you disagree.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm saying that I find you the most suspicious out of anyone. I'm not trying to distance myself at all here. If I'm wrong, I'm willing to accept the consequences. Though I doubt I'm wrong.

Sure, whatever. Let's talk about something else. We need to make use of you while you're here and posting. What do you think of reywaS and DrWilgy?

[insertnamehere]

Lemme go through this again: I think you're scum. I think there's a good chance that if we don't lynch a baddie, we'll be screwed. So yes, I'm trying to get you lynched today, 3J. That's not exactly a secret. It's what I think needs to happen if we want to have a shot at winning this game.

I'd prefer to lynch a mafia member. It'd be the ideal scenario. Lynching a SK wouldn't equal "screwed" though. It'd probably leave us in a 5 vs. 2 scenario with an even narrower pool of suspects and only one night kill.

Yeah, probably. But I have much less of a read on who the serial killer is than the identity of one of the baddies.

Also, Epi's case doesn't seem to be made on very much, so I'm not exactly sure what the hell else I can say about it. If somebody goes from having a really strong suspicion of someone I think is bad, to a weak suspicion of someone I think (or in this case know) is scum, I think asking what makes this new suspicion stronger than the old one is a valid question.

You just called yourself scum.

OMG TOTAL SCUM SLIP-UP 100% MAFIA

*VOTES INSERTNAMEHERE*

I'm too damn tired to be doing this.

Code: Select all

[quote="insertnamehere"]Furthermore, for someone who just keeps insisting that he isn't convinced that I'm scum "even though there's obviously a valid case to be made" and just assumed I'm not the "SK" because I brought up Epi and MM, you really keep trying to hammer at me, don't you?[/quote]

I said I don't think you're a [size=150]vigilante[/size].  That doesn't mean you're not a serial killer.

Is that your theory? That I'm the SK, assuming that there is one? I mean, there's not really anything I can do to defend myself from that other than saying "No, I'm not."

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Is that your theory? That I'm the SK, assuming that there is one? I mean, there's not really anything I can do to defend myself from that other than saying "No, I'm not."

You're my lead SK candidate, yes. I grant though that a SK is inherently more difficult to identify than a mafioso because the evidence trail is much thinner. Did you see my post which brought me to this conclusion originally?