RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

[Marmot]

Everybody is vanilla... I don't believe it!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Everybody is vanilla... I don't believe it!

It'd be interesting if this turned out to be a closed mountainous setup or something close. That's a tall order for any town, especially if there's also a serial killer. I'd say we've given ourselves a good opportunity though.

[Quin]

We have a deepwolf, and for me it's now about figuring out who it is. Marmot and Quin seem like the likely suspects, to me. But of those two, Quin seems the most suspicious. He was off the wagon yesterday, and keeps pushing marmot./

So, an early vote on quin for me.

1) Quin 1.0 was off the Scotty wagon - was civ. Recycling an already used argument that flopped isn't very creative.
2) Was off the wagon yesterday because I was pushing marmot (don't separate the two) - who is also your supposed second choice. Not sure how x = y here.

Next!

[Quin]

Also, I wasn't 'off the wagon' at all. There was no wagon when I placed my vote. You just happened to establish a wagon that wasn't mine.

[Golden]

We have a deepwolf, and for me it's now about figuring out who it is. Marmot and Quin seem like the likely suspects, to me. But of those two, Quin seems the most suspicious. He was off the wagon yesterday, and keeps pushing marmot./

So, an early vote on quin for me.

1) Quin 1.0 was off the Scotty wagon - was civ. Recycling an already used argument that flopped isn't very creative.
2) Was off the wagon yesterday because I was pushing marmot (don't separate the two) - who is also your supposed second choice. Not sure how x = y here.

Next!

On day one, the wagon wasn't a tie with one person, who had the ability to decide which way it went, sitting off the wagon. Yesterday you were the swing vote, and you didn't swing. That's always bothersome.

I disagree with the latter. The two are separate, even if they are linked. When town, you can push someone all day long, but if you aren't getting them lynched you have the ability to vote for someone else. Pushing for someone all day is a common excuse for someone to sit off an irrelevant wagon and act as though the two are the same.

If you couldn't vote for marmot yesterday, who would you have voted for?

[Quin]

We have a deepwolf, and for me it's now about figuring out who it is. Marmot and Quin seem like the likely suspects, to me. But of those two, Quin seems the most suspicious. He was off the wagon yesterday, and keeps pushing marmot./

So, an early vote on quin for me.

1) Quin 1.0 was off the Scotty wagon - was civ. Recycling an already used argument that flopped isn't very creative.
2) Was off the wagon yesterday because I was pushing marmot (don't separate the two) - who is also your supposed second choice. Not sure how x = y here.

Next!

On day one, the wagon wasn't a tie with one person, who had the ability to decide which way it went, sitting off the wagon. Yesterday you were the swing vote, and you didn't swing. That's always bothersome.

I disagree with the latter. The two are separate, even if they are linked. When town, you can push someone all day long, but if you aren't getting them lynched you have the ability to vote for someone else. Pushing for someone all day is a common excuse for someone to sit off an irrelevant wagon and act as though the two are the same.

If you couldn't vote for marmot yesterday, who would you have voted for?

Marmot.

[Golden]

[Golden]

OK, shifting my vote to marmot.

Marmot, we know that if you are bad you lynched both of your own teammates. Given that fact, what do you have to say about Quin's single-mindedness against you?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Where do you stand now on Sir Marmot, Quin?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Sloonbeard, earlier you suggested you understood being perceived as a viable serial killer candidate. Is there anyone remaining you would say is not a viable candidate?

[Sloonei]

Sloonbeard, earlier you suggested you understood being perceived as a viable serial killer candidate. Is there anyone remaining you would say is not a viable candidate?

Golden and/or Quin, I suppose. I forget who exactly each one of them replaced, but their spots in the game would not likely have been active for a couple of nights early on, but kills were still submitted.

I'm also not totally sure why we've ruled out the possibility of a town vigilante. On the surface I do think a serial killer makes more sense, but I am honestly not familiar enough with all the details of this game right now to confidently state that there is a serial killer and not a vigilante.

[Quin]

Where do you stand now on Sir Marmot, Quin?

He's the last baddie. The context behind his vote for Scotty doesn't give me any reason to civ read him, and reywaS was an easy bus.

[Marmot]

OK, shifting my vote to marmot.

Marmot, we know that if you are bad you lynched both of your own teammates. Given that fact, what do you have to say about Quin's single-mindedness against you?

I don't understand it. I've already refuted his reasons.

I also think I'm having one of the best town games I've ever had, and I'm not going to let him ruin it!

[Golden]

OK, shifting my vote to marmot.

Marmot, we know that if you are bad you lynched both of your own teammates. Given that fact, what do you have to say about Quin's single-mindedness against you?

I don't understand it. I've already refuted his reasons.

I also think I'm having one of the best town games I've ever had, and I'm not going to let him ruin it!

Do you think it more likely that he is bad or misguided?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Where do you stand now on Sir Marmot, Quin?

He's the last baddie. The context behind his vote for Scotty doesn't give me any reason to civ read him, and reywaS was an easy bus.

I just want to ensure I fully understand where your head is at. If you could, please paint a detailed picture of what you believe happened at the end of Day 1 in a universe where Marmot is mafia. I'm not saying you're wrong.

[Marmot]

Where do you stand now on Sir Marmot, Quin?

He's the last baddie. The context behind his vote for Scotty doesn't give me any reason to civ read him, and reywaS was an easy bus.

Could you offer some reasons as to why no one else could possibly be it?

DrWilgy was an easy lynch too. What did I gain from refusing to move to DrWilgy and keeping my vote on reywaS?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Sloonbeard, earlier you suggested you understood being perceived as a viable serial killer candidate. Is there anyone remaining you would say is not a viable candidate?

Golden and/or Quin, I suppose. I forget who exactly each one of them replaced, but their spots in the game would not likely have been active for a couple of nights early on, but kills were still submitted.

I'm also not totally sure why we've ruled out the possibility of a town vigilante. On the surface I do think a serial killer makes more sense, but I am honestly not familiar enough with all the details of this game right now to confidently state that there is a serial killer and not a vigilante.

I talked about this with Golden earlier. The only people I think even could be town vigilantes are you and leetic/Golden (or I felt that way at the time).

Now, literally every living player has spent at least some time theorizing about who might potentially be a serial killer. I don't think this would be our reality if there was a town vigilante, because that player would have no reason to speculate about the origin of the extra night kills. Everyone has done that. I think it has to be a serial killer at this point.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

DrWilgy was an easy lynch too. What did I gain from refusing to move to DrWilgy and keeping my vote on reywaS?

Fair point, because if you had done that then I don't think you'd be getting much of the blame -- I'd have shouldered nearly all of it. Any scum could see that coming, it'd have served as a fabulous opportunity.

[Marmot]

OK, shifting my vote to marmot.

Marmot, we know that if you are bad you lynched both of your own teammates. Given that fact, what do you have to say about Quin's single-mindedness against you?

I don't understand it. I've already refuted his reasons.

I also think I'm having one of the best town games I've ever had, and I'm not going to let him ruin it!

Do you think it more likely that he is bad or misguided?

I think he could be bad. I've already pointed out what little he had to say after reywaS was lynched, and he's deviated little from the course he's been following since yesterday.

[Golden]

Both Marmot and sloonei are in very similar positions in terms of their voting. It could be argued that their actions are unnecessarily bussy if they are mafia. I'm not sure why either would cast their lots to save Jay.

This is what leads me to start at quin for today, but quin also seems genuinely convinced in his view about marmot.

I find this vexing.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I find this vexing.

I can safely assume that INH is not playing a significant role in your hunt?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Quin's treatment of Marmot sort of mirrors INH's treatment of me. Circumstance has changed, and Quin has warped his mindset however necessary to maintain the same read. I'm not sure I see that as a genuine thing.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Did Beck pull a typical Day 0/1 distance at the very beginning of the game?

Vote: MovngPictures07

am i doing this right?

I've seen it before.

[Golden]

I find this vexing.

I can safely assume that INH is not playing a significant role in your hunt?

I think that's a fair way of putting it. As with you, the leap for me to see inh as bad is more sizeable than it is with sloonei, marmot or quin. He'd have to have me well fooled.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Beck came out guns ablazing with his hung-ho "I'm-new-here-but-ima-fuck-shit-up" mentality, and it was refreshing. But I wonder if he is acting rather than being. You know whaddimsayin?

Deadly caveat. Dun dun dun.

[Marmot]

Did Beck pull a typical Day 0/1 distance at the very beginning of the game?

Vote: MovngPictures07

am i doing this right?

I've seen it before.

And then there's that vote.

Where did Beck come from? I wonder if he has a history of this?

[Golden]

Moving the vote back to Quin.

I do feel like this is the better thing (and it is in part based on Beck). I think I have legitimate reasons to consider each other person unlikely to be the last mafia.

[Marmot]

Let's pitchfork Quin again!

[Sloonei]

Sloonbeard, earlier you suggested you understood being perceived as a viable serial killer candidate. Is there anyone remaining you would say is not a viable candidate?

Golden and/or Quin, I suppose. I forget who exactly each one of them replaced, but their spots in the game would not likely have been active for a couple of nights early on, but kills were still submitted.

I'm also not totally sure why we've ruled out the possibility of a town vigilante. On the surface I do think a serial killer makes more sense, but I am honestly not familiar enough with all the details of this game right now to confidently state that there is a serial killer and not a vigilante.

I talked about this with Golden earlier. The only people I think even could be town vigilantes are you and leetic/Golden (or I felt that way at the time).

Now, literally every living player has spent at least some time theorizing about who might potentially be a serial killer. I don't think this would be our reality if there was a town vigilante, because that player would have no reason to speculate about the origin of the extra night kills. Everyone has done that. I think it has to be a serial killer at this point.

Perhaps the vigilante wants to remain anonymous or isn't allowed to publicly out themselves.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Where did Beck come from? I wonder if he has a history of this?

Beck came to us from Mafia Universe; I don't know where his Mafia "home" is. I know on MU that kind of thing is more prevalent than it is here.

My doubts stem from the explanation Beck provided after the fact on his vote, which looked better than random b/s. Still, he also had little presence on Day 1 after his vote, and he only showed at EOD immediately before Scotty was lynched. He never moved his vote, and it was worthless there.

[Quin]

Where do you stand now on Sir Marmot, Quin?

He's the last baddie. The context behind his vote for Scotty doesn't give me any reason to civ read him, and reywaS was an easy bus.

I just want to ensure I fully understand where your head is at. If you could, please paint a detailed picture of what you believe happened at the end of Day 1 in a universe where Marmot is mafia. I'm not saying you're wrong.

I've been through all of this with you already, so I don't know what else you want me to say. It was a last minute vote weakly justified by Sloonei's goading which painted him as an inevitable lynch. I'm not sure why you've tried to credit him for this over and over, because it's not sticking.


linki: lol. ok.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Perhaps the vigilante wants to remain anonymous or isn't allowed to publicly out themselves.

We know for certain that infodumping is illegal. It's technically possible that the vigilante is pretending to theorize about serial killers to remain anonymous. That strikes me as counterproductive though -- maintaining anonymity at the price of every other townie wasting time talking about a SK that doesn't exist is a bad trade.

Could be though.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I've been through all of this with you already, so I don't know what else you want me to say. It was a last minute vote weakly justified by Sloonei's goading which painted him as an inevitable lynch. I'm not sure why you've tried to credit him for this over and over, because it's not sticking.


linki: lol. ok.

Sloonei goaded him to vote for INH. So did I. And if Marmot had done as we asked, Scotty could still be alive right now for all we know. I understand that his vote for Scotty doesn't have to make him town. I am just trying to get a better understanding of why you feel it doesn't.

I think to say "Scotty's lynch was inevitable anyway" is patently incorrect. Any lynch that doesn't happen may never happen. The climate of a Mafia game changes constantly. Just look at me.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm not sure why you've tried to credit him for this over and over, because it's not sticking.

Also, the implication of this sentence is that you're calling us team mates.

Are you calling us team mates?

[Quin]

I'm not sure why you've tried to credit him for this over and over, because it's not sticking.

Also, the implication of this sentence is that you're calling us team mates.

Are you calling us team mates?

No, I'm saying it makes me want to overturn my computer desk out of sheer confusion and annoyance.

[Marmot]

Where do you stand now on Sir Marmot, Quin?

He's the last baddie. The context behind his vote for Scotty doesn't give me any reason to civ read him, and reywaS was an easy bus.

I just want to ensure I fully understand where your head is at. If you could, please paint a detailed picture of what you believe happened at the end of Day 1 in a universe where Marmot is mafia. I'm not saying you're wrong.

I've been through all of this with you already, so I don't know what else you want me to say. It was a last minute vote weakly justified by Sloonei's goading which painted him as an inevitable lynch. I'm not sure why you've tried to credit him for this over and over, because it's not sticking.


linki: lol. ok.

I like to make meaningful votes, so I wasn't going to leave my vote on Epignosis if he wasn't going to be lynched.

[Marmot]

I've been through all of this with you already, so I don't know what else you want me to say. It was a last minute vote weakly justified by Sloonei's goading which painted him as an inevitable lynch. I'm not sure why you've tried to credit him for this over and over, because it's not sticking.


linki: lol. ok.

Sloonei goaded him to vote for INH. So did I. And if Marmot had done as we asked, Scotty could still be alive right now for all we know. I understand that his vote for Scotty doesn't have to make him town. I am just trying to get a better understanding of why you feel it doesn't.

I think to say "Scotty's lynch was inevitable anyway" is patently incorrect. Any lynch that doesn't happen may never happen. The climate of a Mafia game changes constantly. Just look at me.

And then there's this (thanks for the defense Jay).

I had already considered voting for Scotty earlier in the day. I appreciate Sloonei's willingness to blindly place a vote and listen to others at the EoD3, but I wasn't as willing on Day 1 since I already had a notion to vote Scotty.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

(thanks for the defense Jay)

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Quin, how do you feel about the Beck-related points that have been raised over the last hour?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Nice job gang, this game has the most posts for any heist game so far.

[Quin]

Quin, how do you feel about the Beck-related points that have been raised over the last hour?

I have no opinion. Part of that is bias, and part of that is because Quin 1.0 already questioned Beck about his MP/reywaS vote and came out of it neutral.

[Quin]

Nice job gang, this game has the most posts for any heist game so far.

We're also at 409 posts for number of times Quin has been mentioned.

[Golden]

By far the best thing to come out of this game is the way that Quin is playing Quin 1.0/2.0 as though he has multiple personality disorder it's quite neat.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Quin, how do you feel about the Beck-related points that have been raised over the last hour?

I have no opinion. Part of that is bias, and part of that is because Quin 1.0 already questioned Beck about his MP/reywaS vote and came out of it neutral.

How do you feel about INH?

[Quin]

By far the best thing to come out of this game is the way that Quin is playing Quin 1.0/2.0 as though he has multiple personality disorder it's quite neat.

as though he has multiple personality disorder? Will you tell my parents that it's just a 'as though'?

[Quin]

Quin, how do you feel about the Beck-related points that have been raised over the last hour?

I have no opinion. Part of that is bias, and part of that is because Quin 1.0 already questioned Beck about his MP/reywaS vote and came out of it neutral.

How do you feel about INH?

He is not at the top of my rainbow list.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

He is not at the top of my rainbow list.

What does that mean?

[Golden]

He is not at the top of my rainbow list.

What does that mean?

It means INH is getting coal in his stocking?

[Marmot]

Nice job gang, this game has the most posts for any heist game so far.

We've almost caught up with Three Kingdoms Mafia which is on Night 7 and has 23 more players.

[Quin]

He is not at the top of my rainbow list.

What does that mean?

It means that his Day 2 'Lynch Jay, if town, lynch Quin' contingency is the first thing that comes to mind when I think about him, and it does not sit well with me at all.