MAD MAX: GAME OVER

[MacDougall]

Otherwise my preferred lynches at the moment would be indiglo or DrWilgy. I'm open to any other cases. Let's keep talking.

What do you see in Wilgy?

Nothing.

That's the problem.

I remember him giving the appearance of effort on Day or Night 1 and gave him a tentative early town read. Other than that all that really sticks out in my mind was his push for a three-way tie yesterday, which I just took to be typical chaotic Wilgyplay. He dropped it when I reminded him a tie results in a no lynch and I just shrugged at the whole thing.

Wilgy went camping and the game got away from him imo. I have a null as fuck read on him. He needs to lift his productivity or he will be a late game problem.

[Dom]

Y'all could be right. NaiveJimmyJay has been wrong about similar reads lately.

What do you think of him saying he's gonna go "full Mac"?

[MacDougall]

Y'all could be right. NaiveJimmyJay has been wrong about similar reads lately.

What do you think of him saying he's gonna go "full Mac"?

Do you only care about Jimmy's opinion on this subject?

[Dom]

Y'all could be right. NaiveJimmyJay has been wrong about similar reads lately.

What do you think of him saying he's gonna go "full Mac"?

Do you only care about Jimmy's opinion on this subject?

No, but he's the one that seems to think that wasn't him premeditating being highly aggressive in the thread.

[MacDougall]

Y'all could be right. NaiveJimmyJay has been wrong about similar reads lately.

What do you think of him saying he's gonna go "full Mac"?

Do you only care about Jimmy's opinion on this subject?

No, but he's the one that seems to think that wasn't him premeditating being highly aggressive in the thread.

I think he started losing his shit and then said that in jest then kept losing his shit.

Also it offended me lol.

[Dom]

Y'all could be right. NaiveJimmyJay has been wrong about similar reads lately.

What do you think of him saying he's gonna go "full Mac"?

Do you only care about Jimmy's opinion on this subject?

No, but he's the one that seems to think that wasn't him premeditating being highly aggressive in the thread.

I think he started losing his shit and then said that in jest then kept losing his shit.

Also it offended me lol.

I hope you know I meant no offense in bringing it up.

I think it shows premeditation to his behavior, though.

[MacDougall]

Y'all could be right. NaiveJimmyJay has been wrong about similar reads lately.

What do you think of him saying he's gonna go "full Mac"?

Do you only care about Jimmy's opinion on this subject?

No, but he's the one that seems to think that wasn't him premeditating being highly aggressive in the thread.

I think he started losing his shit and then said that in jest then kept losing his shit.

Also it offended me lol.

I hope you know I meant no offense in bringing it up.

I think it shows premeditation to his behavior, though.

I didn't think you did. All good.

Could be right.

[Glorfindel]

INH, do you think Zebra and Mac are bad?

I dunno. In my eyes, Zebra looks more opportunistic than Mac. Criticizing me for being wishy washy and influencing people in the wrong direction after self-voting and loudly proclaiming her own aggressive ambivalence isn't a good look. Don't get me wrong, I don't think ambivalence isn't some no-fail scumtell, but I consider hypocrisy to be as close as you can get in this game.

Do I want to vote for her D4? I dunno. Ask me on Day 4.

Pretend you have a vigilante shot right now and you must use it on this Night 3. Who gets shot?

Glorfindel. He came into this game very buddy-buddy with you and proceeded to mainly ignore the growing suspicion from your end. I think he still wants to pretend you two are simpatico. Looking at the Lorab voters, he's the one who strikes me to be the hobo hitching a ride on the bandwagon.

Given that there are five LR voters, and I can safely remove myself and Elo from the pool of suspects, that leaves me with Sloonei, Wilgy, and good ol' Glorf.

Sloonei strikes me as sincere, Wilgy is Wilgy being Wilgy like only Wilgy can be, and Glorf has done nothing to dissuade any of my suspicion.

I think it's stupid to think that Lorab voter = scum, but it's also naive to think that there wasn't a last ditch effort from Toecutter's gang to save their eponymous member.

I'd like to take issue with this post on a number of levels. I utterly reject the assertion that I "came into this game very buddy-buddy with you (Jay)". Unlike some others, I do my best to treat everyone I encounter in these games with the utmost respect and Jay is no exception. In the short time we've been playing together, I'm satisfied in his ability to read me accurately and for what it's worth, yes, I do admire him greatly for his ability in these games. Indeed I would assert that your accusing me of this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black:

THOUGHTS ON PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT RICOCHET OR MAC:

I'm liking Neil Hartley a hell of a lot. I'd really appreciate if his agent, JaggedJimmyJay, could continue booking him for the foreseeable future.

One quote where I post that I like 3J's roleplay does not a buddy make.
As for my LoRab vote at the last EoD, I have addressed this matter in my last post, I trust it will allay your concerns.

I note also that you ranked me in the very middle of your yellow/amber reads on only Day 2 and then after you come under heat from a unanimous GTH reading today, you post this accusation against me. Personally, I don't think this is a particularly good look at all.

That rainbow list was before Elo flipped scum. And the accusation was prompted by 3J asking me if I had to kill one person right now who I would target. Just adding the context you decided to ignore.

Thank you for replying to my post, my friend. I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to do that. As I see you subsequently placed your vote on me, I feel it important to respond to your comments for the sake of balance and the truth.

Firstly, I apologise if you genuinely consider that I did not take into account the context of your comments in that they were a response to Jay's question to you. I assure you that I did not ignore the context of your remark, in fact I thought I was quite clear that I did.

Secondly, you are correct (of course) one quote where you post that you like 3J's roleplay does not a buddy make. The problem is, that wasn't the only post that you made of that kind: here. Secondly, in terms of the vote on Elohcin, (as I think someone else has already pointed out) you remove yourself from the equation but seem distressed that others are holding you to the very same assumption to which you chose to level at me. You state that you are satisfied that Sloonei and Wilgy are OK (I don't personally see Sloonei's alignment as having seriously been in question all game and I'd be very interested if you could elaborate on why you've dismissed Dr Wilgey) but given the circumstance in which you found yourself after the Night 3 GTH reads, you're happy to point the finger of suspicion at (and I quote) "good ol' Glorf".

Later in the day's somewhat tumultuous events, you state; this. Please don't get upset at me questioning you on this point, my friend, but this game is not the first that we've played together. We played in Battle Star Galactica (although if my memory serves me correctly, you subbed in for someone part way through that game) and we played together only week's ago in Rot3K. Am I that much of an anachronism that you haven't been able to acclimate to my play style?

[Quin]

Okie. Whatever issue I had went away at about dinner time, and I was binge watching shows until now, so I'll try and feel out my current vote by looking through INH's posts before bed.

[juliets]

While things are quiet let me step in for a minute and ask everyone to remember that as we go into EOD tonight we are all friends here and this is just an online game. Things may get intense but if you need to say something you might regret contact me to say it. Let's have fun tonight and make sure no one feels that any posts are personal.

[Quin]

Spoiler: show

If MacDougall can't kill you, then he can't kill you. And if he can kill you, all he has to do is...refrain from doing so. If you were good, you've opened yourself up to being killed to set up MacDougall.

Not helpful.

This.

Rico has set up a very risky system here. He's intentionally put a massive target on his back. If neither Rico or Mac are bad, all the mafia has to do is kill Rico, and they get a free lynch of Mac. This same logic gives Mac a smokescreen to hide behind if he is, in fact, bad. In both scenarios, Rico = Dead N1.

It seems like such a categorically poor move for Rico that it essentially leaves me with two options. A. He has some sort of secret info or an ulterior motive for voting Mac Day 1. B. He knows for sure that the target on his back won't hurt him because he's scum.

I remember people accused INH of hitching a ride off of other people's arguments at various points. I'm not sure why, but I thought this was based on it occurring on multiple occasions. I only see it happening on one occasion before the related argument came about, so I think someone was exaggerating its prominence within INH's content. I see that in the first paragraph, but the second provides a decent level of his own insight. Not suspicious.

Spoiler: show

Curious to see what Zebra and INH have to say now that Epi was killed by mafia. And highly unlikely, in a speed game, that mafia would kill one of their own night 1. So....wanting responses there.

I don't believe either me or Zebra called Epi mafia. We just wanted some kind of explanation for his D1 vote, and his pussyfooting around it was aggravating.

Plus, I already responded to his death here:

Epignosis went out like he played: frustratingly. RIP, and I wish you elected to answer a single question before you left this mortal coil. Guess it doesn't particularly matter now.

There ya go.

Now onto Rico's text wall.

This transpired into some back and forth with ?Sloonei? about whether he did or didn't say that Epi was a scum-read. INH said this (1) in elaboration, and I believe it based on what he originally said in (2). I can see a thought process of 'Epi looked the worst in this specific context (his Day 1 voting behaviour), but this doesn't consider other circumstances'.

Spoiler: show

Curious to see what Zebra and INH have to say now that Epi was killed by mafia. And highly unlikely, in a speed game, that mafia would kill one of their own night 1. So....wanting responses there.

I don't believe either me or Zebra called Epi mafia. We just wanted some kind of explanation for his D1 vote, and his pussyfooting around it was aggravating.

"Never called Epi mafia."

The two people who came out of Day 1 looking worse for me are Elo and Epi, those two lovebirds.

The two people who came out of Day looking [worst] are Elo and Epi. Uh.

Don't misquote me, Sloonei. Here's the original post, I'll repeat it again for your benefit:

The two people who came out of Day 1 looking worse for me are Elo and Epi, those two lovebirds.

Worse. A different word than worst, with different meanings and connotations. Here's a helpful WikiHow article to teach you the difference: http://www.wikihow.com/Use-Worse-and-Worst

Cliffnotes:

Spoiler: show

Use worse to describe something in a state of deterioration. Although this situation commonly only lists one thing, technically speaking, you are still comparing two things - one state of being to another. Often, one of these states is implied instead of mentioned outright.

This is going to get a lot worse before it gets better.
I think my handwriting is worse [than it was before].
I am feeling worse [than I was before]


Use worst to state that one thing is inferior to multiple other things. Worst is a superlative adjective. A superlative adjective is one which is used to denote the extreme highest or lowest out of a group of nouns.[6] This is used when comparing three or more things.

Unlike worse, you can’t use worst when only comparing two things.
Dirty diapers smell worse than rotten milk, but week-old fish is the worst of all.
Math is the worst of all my classes.

The lynch train against Scotty being one that was perpetrated against a civ, made me reconsider my assumptions about two people, Epi and Elo. I didn't imply that they were my two top suspects, but that my view of both of them was altered by the Day 1 results. And I never called Epi mafia.

Hopefully, you now understand.

^ That one got bugged a little, but I'm specifically referring to the very last paragraph.

Spoiler: show

The two people who came out of Day 1 looking worse for me are Elo and Epi, those two lovebirds.

Elo's Scotty vote and "self-preservation" was weird to me. Same thing with Epi's ultimately useless last second switcheroo where he jumped off of the Scotty train mere seconds before it crashed into a wall. I'd really like to see his explanation for his vote because right now it just rings as hollowly opportunistic.

Sloonei, your response after this post indicated that you didn't see this, and afterwards this argument pretty my faded out of existence. What's your take now?

Spoiler: show

And welcome, Quin! I think replacements can sometimes offer unique insight into what is occurring in the thread, so I look forward to your perspective once you're current with the thread. It's good to have you in the game.

Let me know what you'd like my opinion on.

https://www.reddit.com/r/indieheads/com ... t_top_its/

Does this new Jeff Mangum drawing indicate that Neutral Milk Hotel is going to release a new album?

Apologies in advance to motel room for the lighthearted frivolity of this post.

I have no idea what half of those words mean, but yes.

Spoiler: show

I didn't expect INH to sweep the baddie reads. That's interesting. He has fallen from grace more than perhaps anyone else.

Never trust someone who hates the movie Persona. To be honest, I was never really graceful in the first place, what with the Sloonei/Epignosis kerfuffle.

I really don't like how Zebra and Mac sold me out quicker than a sack of potatoes at a farmers market. It looks like they realized that we were all on the same leaky boat, and they tossed me out to slow down the sinking.

I'd like to try and get some reasoning as to why I'm apparently now the unanimous baddie choice. Specifically, stuff that A: Mac and Zebra aren't both already guilty of, and B: don't stem from me being noncommital about Elo. I'm noncommital about 90% of players. That reads scum for most people, but I personally find super duper strongly held beliefs to be more fishy than more moderate stances. As bisexual agnostic, I do feel I need to speak up from time to time to fiercely defend my right to ambivalence.

He tries to dismiss the legitimacy of suspicion based on him being non-committal about Eloh. He claims he's non-committal about 90 percent of players, but that's a pretty easy excuse to hide behind. I don't think his vote for LoRab over Eloh looks bad for him, but I think dismissing people who do feel that way does.

Spoiler: show

What do you want from me, Sloonei?

Digging back I found this old classic line.

Putting my vote on insertname for now.

great. you think a random fuckin' quote is enough. What makes this quote a 100% scumtell?

And better yet, what do I have to correct my tone enough so that you don't jump down my throat every time I make a comment? Oh wait, was that too mean and negative? We all know that only scum get agitated when they're constantly hounded by BS cases and constant suspicion. Nobody's ever heard of a civilian getting ticked off having to eat fecal matter each time he checks the thread.

Quoting this to iterate that I have no opinion on the whole 'What do you want from me' thing.

Spoiler: show

If you ignored this stuff and spent your time hunting I'd trust you more.

Oh [expletive] off.

When I was 5, my brother was placed in a special needs class. When I was 12, I got into my first fist fight, beating up some kids who decided to call him the "R-word".

I interned a summer at a mental health facility. I've read multiple books about the stigma surrounding mental health, and I try to make it a big part of my life to deflate these hateful misconceptions that arise through stereotypes and derogatory language.

That being said, this is fucking retarded. It's the dumb cop out to end all cop outs.

It made my fucking skin crawl like hell when you pulled this shit on Quin in Red V Blue, and it makes my fucking skin crawl now. This exact kind of attitude is why mafia is becoming more and more physically painful for me to play.

I cannot help but label these sorts of emotional appeals as genuine.


---

I want to move my vote. I have some minor concerns in some of his content, but I'd shade INH as a light green on my rainbow list after this. If indiglo hasn't given me the the meat I've been anticipating by the time I get up in the morning I might be inclined to go there.

[Quin]

I voted for Wilgy. Maybe a couple of votes will bring him out of hiding. Gimme the goods.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I voted for Wilgy. Maybe a couple of votes will bring him out of hiding. Gimme the goods.

Didn't work last time. I hope you have more success.

[DrWilgy]

Why is this the meme whenever I check the thread?

I'm doing what I can. I check thread, read the last 50 or so posts and then share my thoughts if I have any.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Why is this the meme whenever I check the thread?

I'm doing what I can. I check thread, read the last 50 or so posts and then share my thoughts if I have any.

I'd love to hear your though now, preferably numerous.

[Sloonei]

Taking a look at Wilgy.

Voting Ricochet. If anyone's here, ask me questions and I'll ask you questions back. Let's generate some content. Deal?

Where do you read me zeebs?

Null, but GTH good because with what content you have, you haven't given me a reason to think otherwise. Where do you read me?

GTH good.

I have barely read the thread though. What do you think of Mac Declining my invite to team up?

These represent his first real posts in the game. On the one hand I want to like that he's able to produce a GTH read on the spot, but on the other I can't like it too much since he discredits himself by being honest and telling us he hasn't read the thread. This post does nothing for me.

What is your strongest read at the moment, considering that you haven't fully caught up?

Baddie Rico with potential as Mac temmie.

I don't think Rico is the type to lose sight of what would gain him advantage in the game for a policy lynch.

What do you think was the most interesting exchange so far?

He's at least loosely on the Rico bandwagon here. I don't like that, but he did give a reason to feel that way so it's not the worst. What I do like is his question. I thought it was a good early game, looking-to-get-involved type of question. This brief appearance is what I was referencing earlier when I said I gave him an early town read. When he came in here it looked like he was genuinely trying to both get himself involved and get others thinking about things in the game.

DrWilgy, do you have any other gut and/or vibe-based reads you would like to share?

The only other player that I have thought about is Sprityo, whom I gut read as bad.

I like your analysis of Rico. I'd like an answer from Rico as to why he thought to interject here. Not sure if this has been explained yet or not, but I'm not willing to go back and check.

Zebra, how would you respond to me voting Rico right now?

Sloonei, mind telling me the exchange that interested you most?

He lists sprityo as an early baddie read. I'd be interested to hear how that's developed. He also gave me and LoRab gut scum reads. I think he's since dropped the read on me,and his LoRab read seems to have been dependent on Rico being bad as well.

Turns out that his most substantial post in the game to this point is a big one about why LoRab is bad. Interesting. I don't think it's all consistent. For instance, the second to last point he makes in this post indicates that a certain post of LoRab's was directed toward him, when it was really directed at Jay.

So I dunno. There's not much here. There are a few things that give me slight town vibes in his post history but nothing overwhelming. A lack of content is always going to be a concern, so I can't do much with Wilgy right now.

[Sloonei]

Why is this the meme whenever I check the thread?

I'm doing what I can. I check thread, read the last 50 or so posts and then share my thoughts if I have any.

Tell us what you think of insertnamehere's reaction to getting votes

[DrWilgy]

Thinks: I like the vote spread. It generally means we are on the right track.

Sloon can you inform me what reactions you are speking of? I'll look through but, I'm also at work and shouldn't be playing mafia

[Sloonei]

Thinks: I like the vote spread. It generally means we are on the right track.

Sloon can you inform me what reactions you are speking of? I'll look through but, I'm also at work and shouldn't be playing mafia

You'll see them if you look through.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm leaning indiglo or Scotty now.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Thinks: I like the vote spread. It generally means we are on the right track.

What do you mean by this exactly?

[Tangrowth]

Hello folks! I just have to finish grading these exams and then I'll be around for a bit.

[Sloonei]

I'm leaning indiglo or Scotty now.

What did Wilgy do just now that shook you off him?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm leaning indiglo or Scotty now.

What did Wilgy do just now that shook you off him?

Nothing. Trend!

I'd be less confident in voting for him than either of the other two.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Sloonei, if you could lynch any two players right now, who would you pick?

[Sloonei]

Sloonei, if you could lynch any two players right now, who would you pick?

I'm still committed to INH, but I'll pretend we're moving past him and give two other names. Scotty would be first. sprityo was underwhelming and a little shaky in his time here, and Scotty's re-entry didn't strike me as enthusiastic or committed. I got the sense that he subbed back in for a scum player who already had a big case mounted against him and, understandably if this is the case, gave up.

For the sake of not naming two quiet spots/players, I'll also name MP or Mac as my second. I don't know which. I haven't had a chance to pick either of their brains in this game yet, so my read on both is still up in the air.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Pretty much agree about Scotty. I kind of get the same impression from indiglo actually. They chose different ways to express the same "screw it".

[Sloonei]

I sensed that in indiglo, but not quite as much. I can still see a frustrated townie in her posts.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I sensed that in indiglo, but not quite as much. I can still see a frustrated townie in her posts.

Do you think that mindset is warranted? I struggle to understand what caused her degree of frustration to skyrocket so fast as it did. The posts looked to me like someone who has faced false accusations for five day phases straight, not someone who's just joined the game.

[Sloonei]

I sensed that in indiglo, but not quite as much. I can still see a frustrated townie in her posts.

Do you think that mindset is warranted? I struggle to understand what caused her degree of frustration to skyrocket so fast as it did. The posts looked to me like someone who has faced false accusations for five day phases straight, not someone who's just joined the game.

I don't think it's unbelievable. She seems pressed for time as it is, and to sub into a game where she's met with accusations before she even opens her mouth is less than ideal. It would be nice to see more of an effort to scum hunt out of her if and when she has the time.

[Sloonei]

If the choice came down to Scotty and indiglo, i'd choose Scotty 9 times out of 10.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Scotty

[Sloonei]

Scotty

I may join you there. I am mulling it over and want to see how others respond first.

[MacDougall]

Has Zebra just disappeared?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

One thing giving me pause re: indiglo and Scotty -- they've not used their votes. That's at least the bare minimum I'd expect from a baddie to evade a lynch, even if they don't say much of anything.

[motel room]

Im sticking with it. I need to know what he is.

Jjj are you predominantly off INH because of his attitude towards you?

Also need to read quins post. On phone.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jjj are you predominantly off INH because of his attitude towards you?

If he's bad, he'd be the most furious baddie I've ever seen. Not impossible. I might still return to that vote pending possible ties or the like.

[Sloonei]

Im sticking with it. I need to know what he is.

This is where I'm at as well. I could go for Scotty right now as well, but there has been too much commotion around INH for me to be able to look past him at this point, and after today there's no chance he ever gets nightkilled if he's town. I'll be around for the end of the day and will keep an open mind and an open vote, though.

[motel room]

Ill do some stuff when i get to work. I think hes frustrated not furious. I dont really agree with much of quins interpretations up there. I dont want to be falling into confirmation bias though.

[motel room]

What do you (anyone) make of INH's "legacy reads"?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

What do you (anyone) make of INH's "legacy reads"?

They seem consistent with the suspicions he has produced elsewhere in the game. I don't know that they do anything to make me trust him more or less. I suppose I appreciate that he gave legacy reads at all.

The bit about feeling too biased to read everyone else may be of some interest. These are the players included among "everyone else":

Zebra
Dom
Mac
MP
Quin
Scotty 2.0
JJJ

For the underlined players he has recently expressed some manner of frustration, so that's less surprising. I am not sure why he'd feel a strong bias when it comes to getting a read on sprityo/Scotty though.

[motel room]

What do you (anyone) make of INH's "legacy reads"?

They seem consistent with the suspicions he has produced elsewhere in the game. I don't know that they do anything to make me trust him more or less. I suppose I appreciate that he gave legacy reads at all.

Maybe. Glorfindel, yes. LoRab, yess but after Elo flipped we got this exchange

Spoiler: show

Because I thought Lorab was bad, and I harbored doubts about Elo's alignment.

Is having incorrect opinions now illegal?

I think it's stupid to think that Lorab voter = scum, but it's also naive to think that there wasn't a last ditch effort from Toecutter's gang to save their eponymous member.

So, I take it you now think LoRab is good?

I still think Sloonei's case makes sense, and I don't think any of my points against her were discredited, but I find it hard to justify going after her head after Elo flipped bad to the bone. So right now my opinion of LoRab is in limbo, and I'd rather target and investigate other suspects.

which is confusing at best, and as far as I remember his posts with LoRab since then have been defence posts not attacking posts. And me, no he's never done anything to suggest I'm scum although I dont think he likes my presence in the thread.

Town reads are indiglo who, unless my ctrl-Fing is off, he's never mentioned once, but comes with a "spooky-scary" suggesting the read is edgy. Is it edgy? Is he aware of a consensus on her but has never commented on it? And Wilgy, which, I don't know. But also hasn't seemed to mention - only Wilgy search finds mention in other people's quoted rainbow lists.

[LoRab]

What do you (anyone) make of INH's "legacy reads"?

He seemed to change his mind about his earlier stated ambivalence of me.

I agree his frustration and emotion were real--but I do not think they were coming from a civ perspective. I think he sounded like a frustrated, cornered, caught baddie. Who was trying really hard to sound like a civ in the thread, and honestly doesn't see how and why he didn't succeed in doing so.

I reread his posts earlier today and my opinion hasn't changed.

[a2thezebra]

THE MP BEING PROBLEMATIC AF COMPILATION POST

It pains me to disparage a lady, but I do believe Elohcin's response to that random vote from her husband was a bit lifeless. Considering she is here to see Neil Hartley live and in the flesh, I know she isn't that bored. The look on her face, it's giving Neil the wrong impression.

I know nothing of this show, so JJJ is confusing me a bit. I may vote him. It seems a little 'trying too hard' to come in here role play like that right off the bat. Like he is trying to win us over. What do y'all think? And this is not WIFOM talking...whatever that is. I never understood that term completely. but you all seem to use it for when you go after someone who has gone after you? I don't know.

I'll hold off on voting for now.

The "trying too hard" argument bothers me, but I'm not sure I find you suspicious for it. I just don't agree. Also, Neil Hartley has nothing to do with Mad Max.

I know nothing of this show, so JJJ is confusing me a bit. I may vote him. It seems a little 'trying too hard' to come in here role play like that right off the bat. Like he is trying to win us over. What do y'all think? And this is not WIFOM talking...whatever that is. I never understood that term completely. but you all seem to use it for when you go after someone who has gone after you? I don't know?

What a wild post, madame! How would you feel if Neil Hartley told you that you "tried too hard" to find something negative to say about his roleplay! I think you might be bad news, and I'm gonna inform security to keep an eye on your table.

Elohcin

How much of this serious?

I know I've already brought up these first three posts but no one responded and later Dom asked me for some elaboration on my MP read so they can't not be in this post. I mean these alone are, or at least should be, pretty damning knowing how things played out. MP begins his Eloh read fabrication with literally just a ponder smiley, the most obvious "I'm just going to go wherever town goes with this" reaction you could possibly have. It's especially irreconcilable with the MP-is-civ narrative because civ MP rarely responds to posts with just a smiley, especially one as vague and open to different trajectories as the pondering one. MP almost always delivers his definitive thoughts on anything and everything he addresses, more often than not going into more detail than most right from the get go. For him to not even say whether he agrees, disagrees, or is undecided on the matter of Eloh's lifelessness and instead to deliver a reaction that could interpreted as all three, or at the time even suspicion of JJJ rather than Eloh, is pretty bad. And that's just the first post.

What in the name of the piano is up with that second post? The waffliness of it is just scratching the surface, there's a glaring contradiction there that PROVES MP was fabricating his read of Eloh at least at the time. I've fabricated reads before as a civ myself just to not get lynched, so I'm not saying that MP is confirmed bad because he has a confirmed fake read. If something bothers you about another player alignment-wise, then of course you find them suspicious for it. If you don't find the other player suspicious for it, then it bothers you in a way that is unrelated to the game, which obviously isn't the case here, given that what's apparently bothersome to MP here is the "trying too hard" argument. How would that argument go about bothering someone in a way that isn't suspicious? MP goes on to say that he just doesn't "agree"....what???? If you simply don't agree with an argument, then you disagree with it. You don't say that it bothers you, unless it bothers you by peaking your suspicion. To make matters worse, MP outright say that he didn't find Eloh suspicious for it, he said that he fucking wasn't sure if he found her suspicious for it. Are you serious?

And then there's the icing on the cake which is the third post. After two posts that express undefined, neutral, and contradictory views on Eloh, he then asks JJJ how much of his post expressing suspicion of her is serious. This clearly implies that MP was taken aback by JJJ's post, but why would he be? Beyond the fluff of the role-playing, there's nothing in that post to suggest that JJJ is kidding around with what he was saying there, so why would it produce a reaction like the one MP had?

Seriously people, pretend that you know that MP is good and then read those three posts. Then pretend that you know that MP is bad and then read those three posts. Knowing Eloh's flip, which hypothesis makes more sense?

Oh but I'm just getting started. Those were just the posts that I had already quoted earlier.

going for self preservation here...

We have 24 hours (or had as of the time of your post) in this game. Why self-preservation so early?

I believe that Eloh's Day 1 self-preservation vote was a co-ordinated effort between her and MP to lower suspicions of both of them, for Eloh in the short-term and for MP in the long-term. Here me out please. When Elohcin posted that she was voting out of self-preservation, the next minute JJJ responded by asking what was her beef with bwt, her vote of choice. Between that time and MP's post here quite a few players posted and none of them thought to ask her why she would make a self-preservation vote/post so early. Only MP had that thought. Eloh's self-preservation vote was meant to look too risky or clumsy for a baddie and then MP was meant to come in, call it out, and earn them both town credit WHILE distancing from each other WHILE low key scum-reading each other. MP being the one to call out Eloh's self-preservation vote also helped him later on when his read of Eloh became stronger and stronger in the baddie direction, and I'll get into just how arbitrary it was that it went that way and not the opposite.

MovingPictures07
Scotty
sprityo

Elohcin

I'm orange!

In another peculiarly out-of-character moment for MP, he responds to a full rainbow rankings list from JJJ not commenting on any of the reads but his own, and even then it's not to challenge JJJ's baddie-leaning read of him but just to say that he's happy that he's orange. Pure fluff from a player that again, is not only not known for fluff but is well-known for being a steamroller of hard content. This is clearly because Elohcin was JJJ's only red read and he wanted to draw attention away from it without actually confronting it and risking revealing that they are teammates. You know he was nervous about that possibility because the risk wasn't even that high on Day 1 and he still avoided having a concrete read on Elohcin himself like the plague, and his only comments both referencing her and the ones addressed to her allow for complete ambiguity.

Case in point: his very next post regarding Elohcin.

How much of this serious?

All of it

Got it, thanks. Just wasn't fully able to discern due to the roleplay (which I'm cool with and enjoying, btw).

What's the point of getting confirmation that a post was serious if you're not going to make any comment regarding the post's content? It would be one thing if MP didn't comment on the post whatsoever, but for him to ask how much of it serious, get confirmation that the entirety of it is serious, but then to not have anything to say about it or any questions or clarifications or anything, looks really, really bad, especially in the context of MP's playstyle which again, normally isn't as fluffy and vague as all of his Eloh-related posts up to this point have been.

a2thezebra
Dom
MacDougall
LoRab
Neil Hartley
Ricochet
Sloonei
S~V~S

birdwithteeth11
DrWilgy
sanmateo

Elohcin
Epignosis
Glorfindel
insertnamehere
motel room
Scotty
sprityo

Here is MP's first rainbow list. With the names in each category (of which there are only three and none of them are red) being in alphabetical order, that basically renders this list pointless which is all the worse factoring in the reluctance to deliver Day 1 content on Eloh. Think about it; this list is literally eight townies, three nulls, and seven ehhh-kinda-suspicious-but-not-really-but-we-shall-sees. That's bad. If MP was a civ trying to genuinely contribute, why would he go to the trouble of making a rainbow list that doesn't offer any more real information than a post merely naming two or three reads at most would? Simple, it's a replication of contribution rather than town-motivated contribution.

I'm sorry I just have to emphasize that so far we've gone through seven posts that either reference Eloh or go out of their way not to reference Eloh, one of them being a fucking rainbow rankings list, and we still know essentially nothing about what MP's read of Eloh was at this point in the game. And no, being one of seven orange reads on Day 1 means approximately jack shit. That could have and would have changed if suspicions of Eloh had decreased after Day 1 rather than increased.

I seriously thought his actions were a joke or trying to get a rise out of me or something. I think my reaction was what would determine his thoughts of me. Too bad I had to react after midnight after several drinks (when I don't drink often at all). It probably is what started me off on the wrong track for this game.

Now, as for my vote today (Day 1 ) I can see where scotty can be bad. I am moving my vote there. I don't want to vote BWT if I don't have to. Hate to lose a possible civ position even if it's a quiet one.

You can see it? What about the Scotty case is convincing to you?

I'm not even sure what MP meant by the first question and frankly I don't think he did either. Eloh said that she could see where Scotty could be bad, and he asks her if she can see that? Unless he's referencing something else? The problem here is that MP's indecisiveness is being reflected on his interaction with Eloh here. Instead of asking her about his read of her or her read of him, he asks her about Scotty. The second question makes sense because it's asking for elaboration, but it just makes the first question look even more forced and out of place.

Rainbow #2

a2thezebra
Dom
MacDougall
motel room
Sloonei
S~V~S

LoRab
Neil Hartley

birdwithteeth11
DrWilgy
sanmateo

Ricochet
Scotty

Elohcin
Epignosis
Glorfindel
insertnamehere
sprityo

While five categories is much better than three, this reads list still puts each category in alphabetical order (meaning there's really only five actual rankings) and there's still no red reads. It helps that Elohcin is in the bottom five but in a way that makes it worse because MP's apparent growing confidence in his baddie read of Eloh is only reflected in his rainbow rankings lists and not the rest of his content. But where MP really digs his own grave is in his very next post where he makes the mistake of elaborating on nothing. I'll just skip to the juice.

- The five remaining names in my moderate mafia list are not particularly crazy suspicious, but I am not inspired to believe any of them are town at this time based on what they have posted.

If this isn't the nail in the coffin then I don't know what is. How the hell is the bottom five names in your MODERATE mafia list not even "particularly crazy suspicious"? First of all, what a hilarious phrase. Not. Particularly. Crazy. Suspicious. Tell me MP, what does "not particularly crazy suspicious" mean exactly? Are those five names not particularly crazy suspicious because they're just plain crazy suspicious without the particularly? Are they not particularly crazy suspicious because none of them are crazy to the best of our knowledge? Are they not particularly crazy suspicious because all of them are particularly crazy yet none of them are suspicious?

My point is that MP is saying nothing by saying everything, and this is his prime strategy as a baddie. When you're flooded with his content in any game you're going to get a lot of concrete (hard reads) and a lot of ambiguity (softer and/or less consistent reads) but what you're not going to get - unless he's bad - is fake content. That's what his first two rainbow rankings posts are and he just illustrated as much himself. It would be like if I did a rainbow rankings list with just two categories: strong town reads and slight town reads. No mafia reads, no neutral reads, no null reads. Just strong town and light town. I could rank them all in order most town to least town, but they're all town reads, so it wouldn't mean shit. But in reality what MP did here is even worse than the scenario I just described, because MP only ranked the different sections of his first two lists by fucking alphabetical order. All of this could have been redeemed if MP delivered some hard scum reads, or at least left it open for others to assume that his bottom reads were his hard scum reads, but he had to go and clarify that not even his bottom reads he found particularly crazy suspicious. That means that someone at the time of the second rainbow list could have asked him who he would most likely to vote for, and if he had answered them that would've been more of a real contribution than his two rainbow lists combined.

And just to keep things from being misunderstood, I do believe MP is contributing. I just don't think it's civ-minded contribution. I think he's bad.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

We've just over 2 hours remaining. Thankfully we snared a scum last day phase, so we have a little breathing room to make a mistake today -- if that's what happens. I'm probably dead meat after Night 4, so I'll try to cram some more worthwhile stuff into this thread before that happens. The next flip should help.

holy linki from hell, hi Zebra

[a2thezebra]

Hi J. Convince me to vote for Scotty 2.0 por favor.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Hi J. Convince me to vote for Scotty 2.0 por favor.

I'm reading your thing first. Who knows, I might like it more.

[a2thezebra]

For the record, my MP post stops at the chronological point that it does because after that second rainbow list it's fairly obvious that MP decided that bussing Eloh was the way to go and so from that point until Eloh's lynch he tried to make everyone forget how horrifically waffly he was on her at first.

[DharmaHelper]

Rainbow lists are dumb and bad

[Sloonei]

I like some of your points, zebra, but I also flat out disagree with several others. You definitely have tunnel vision working on MP right now. That is not neccesarily a bad thing. I can't wait to see how massive MP's response is. I assume it will need its own thread.