MAD MAX: GAME OVER

[Quin]

And I also need to address the idea that my "Who are you gonna vote for?" question was some sort of far-fetched framing scheme of mine. Here's the original post, right at the start of Day 6:

Epi, who you gonna vote for now that Mr Mac is dead?

Quin, who's your supposed 3 person scum team?

Note the second question addressed to Quin. This is just a light conversation-starter type of post. I'm just peppering the two players I can see in the thread with standard mafia questions. These are really the same question: "Who are your suspects?" But, as I am a player who asks a ton of questions in this game, I get bored of typing the same words over and over and over and over again, so sometimes I like to spice it up! I throw whole new, colorful sets of words at people! One way that I like to do this is to ask people "Who they're voting for" instead "who they suspect". Don't believe me? Here's some more examples from this game:

Who are you gonna vote for, Mr Quin?

link

righty-o

who you gonna vote for, champ?

link

Who do you want to vote for, mac?

link (admittedly the context is a little different on this one)

Who you gonna vote for, Dom?

link

I didn't and don't find Sloonei's questioning to be suspicious. Frankly, I'd be more suspicious if we weren't being constantly spammed with the same question over and over.

That said, who you gonna vote for, Sloonei?

I am not sure right now. I'm on Wilgy right now but I'm tempted to join you on Dom or Jay on Epi. Those three have got my attention today. I still owe Scotty and LoRab a good look though.

I'm no longer on Dom, at least not for the argument I've just recently had with him. I need to ISO him, which I will most definitely do and I am definitely not procrastinating it by playing both the Sims 4 and Fire Emblem Awakening in intervals.

[DrWilgy]

@Sloon the 3 false infos you haev provided as follows:
1. Claiming I hadn't explained my voting the day I had to swap between INH and indiglo.
2. Claiming I hadn't responded to your primary suspicion of me.
3. Claiming that I'm inconsistent for quoting and responding to something directed at JJJ.

I'll need to tackle your last posts 1 at a time Sloon.

1. Fair, acknowledged.
2. You hadn't. You responded to my initial gripes but hadn't addressed the full blown case. But that wasn't really something I suspected you for. I was just pointing out that you'd not responded to it yet because you seemed to be making an effort to (appreciated) but hadn't gotten around to it yet.
3. That was a misunderstanding and, again, not something I found you suspicious for.

Point 2 - where in my pointing out to adressing your suspicion did I not provide? And dont say your recent posts because thats coming.
Point 3 - false information spread is still false information.

I can imagine someone making a mistake, but it's hard for me not to have suspicion of this when you hit strike 3 Sloon.

Linki - have fun talk to you tomorrow Sloonei.

[DrWilgy]

if INH is town, Wilgy looks bad right now.

Actually, you are bad. Explain this Sloonei.

While a single sentence may be hard, the strongest cause of suspicion is in the above quote.

I feel that Sloonei was fully expecting a INH civ flip and over eagerly tried to throw fault at me for thus flip.

I was not.

Mostly your treatment of after the deadline. I only qualified the statement because if INH flipped bad it'd be hard to argue that the guy who just hammered on a baddie is also a baddie. But, from my perspective, it looks like you genuinely just forgot that you'd dropped your suspicion of me and then had to cover your tracks.
Plus you never told us why you went from INH to indi and back to INH in the final minutes. What inspired you to move your vote to indiglo? How do you feel about Glorfindel?

This is irrelevant to the question I asked. "from my perspective" is also a fodder statement. Of course this is from your perspective, this is your thought. I get baddie vibes from fodder statements like this, as it's symptoms of a skittling player. Baddies skittle more than civs.
This is just false as I explained my vote changes in the following quotes.
[a bunch of quotes where Wilgy explains what he was doing at the end of Day 5]

Linki - Stop saying things that aren't happening Sloonei.

RE: The orange: How is that irrelevant to what you asked? You asked my explain why you looked bad. I think you look bad because you appear to have forgotten what your read on me was. That's the #1 reason I suspect you, how can you say it's irrelevant to the question of why I think you are bad. And I added the "from my perspective" thing because I don't think anyone else would be as hyper-aware of what your read on me is/was as I am. Yeah, it's a bit of a redundancy but whatever.

I admit the blue part is false. It was a chaotic end of day. I suppose I was hoping you'd give a more substantive reason to suspect either indiglo or INH, rather than just eyeballing the bandwagon participants.

But since we're on the subject, you looked a little skittish at that end of day yourself, the way you danced around with your vote. Regardless of what your reasoning was, you appeared very indecisive.

Re re orange: because it is irrelevant to what I asked, you also snipped too much of the conversation. The context you presented was "If INH flips good, Wilgy looks bad" how did INH and I have anything to do with one another that would have caused this blanket statement? I'm aware of the previous suspicion that you restated that I outlined in orange, but how does that have anything to do with the relationship between inh and I if INH was town and me being bad?

[DrWilgy]

But since we're on the subject, you looked a little skittish at that end of day yourself, the way you danced around with your vote. Regardless of what your reasoning was, you appeared very indecisive.

Of course I was indecisive. I joined in the discussion with less than 10 minutes to vote and a tie to break.

[Epignosis]

Let's review some of Zebra's strongest stances taken in this game:

~ Ricochet is bad.

~ Elohcin is good.

~ MovingPictures07 is bad.

I have spent the whole game thinking she looked genuine in her incorrectness, and I was willing to forgive. I ask myself now though, especially in the wake of Mac dying, whether I was being too easy on her. Zebra by her very nature as a player is very assertive about her manner of conveying her reads whether they are real or fake. That assertiveness is easy to mistake for sincerity, which is her best skill as a player.

Now we have Epignosis going after Mac right before his death in a way that perfectly recalls the circumstances earlier in the game, to the point that coincidence appears less likely than intent. I think motel room was making a valid inference when he suggested this first, and it was my immediate reaction to the reveal of Mac's death. Now, consider the most likely impact of a MacDougall death -- Glorfindel gets wasted today. It's the absolute easiest means of night kill manipulation on the table, and I am not inclined to bite. I think Glorfindel is the carrot, and either Epignosis or Sloonei is dangling that carrot.

I could see this as a strategy that scum Epi would use. Given how tentative so many reads in this game feel, it probably wouldn't be too hard to tip things in any direction right now if the baddies want to do that, and if they're actively involved then that is what they want to do right now. Given this and my sudden town read on Glorf, I'm loosening up on the good vibes I got from Epi last night.

3J manufactures a reason to suspect me (as I don't believe he really does), and you "could see this as a strategy that scum Epi would use."

Super.

Tell me- when I am bad, what strategies are off the table?

I think he suspects you. He is currently voting for you and this looks like a genuine thought process. I can see it as something you'd do, yes. I'm not saying I'm convinced of anything. This is not a crusade. Just keeping an open mind. You've said yourself, somewhere, I think it was in Red vs. Blue that most of those numerous banners of yours have come from scum performances. You're a crafty baddie. The only strategies I'd take off the table for you are things that skirt or break the rules of the game. Take it as a compliment.

You think he genuinely thinks I'm bad? I don't. I know 3J. We go way back.

He voted me because I wasn't on here at all. Then he voted like fourteen other people. Then I logged on and went off to do other things, and I guarantee you he saw me online and voted for me again.

That is what I believe his thought process to be. He can state otherwise.

If you will, describe how you arrived at the conclusion that this was his "genuine thought process" (your words).

You are correct about me. I won't break the rules, but I also won't lie about real life. I don't consider either of those things strategies, but rather "cheating" and "being unfair," respectively.

I probably won't end up reading through your posts, Sloonei.

I got my hopes up. Will you at least read this one and the links contained therein?

I read it.

I don't care that you ask questions. I didn't care for the timing of your question, as though I had a planned answer or something. A backup, as it were. You were setting me up.

It was timed that way because it was the first post of the day. What was I even setting you up for? I'm asking you to name suspects. How is that a setup? That's what this game is.

You gave me no opportunity to reevaluate. I timed my case against MacDougall so that no one could change a night action before the post. I think were high on coincidence and sprang to incriminate me.

[DrWilgy]

Snipped for brevity

No baddiedar is different. I have no impulse to vote for you but in a gth scenario I do think you are still bad.

Honestly at this point with how little time ive had to read/contribute all my thoughts are just a gth random mess.

You think this computes over here? "Off the baddiedar" seems to strongly suggest "not a suspect".

And followed up here.

Nah. Baddies I'd vote for. GTH baddies I still need to think about.

Glorf why is it 5-3 then?

And that was the full conversation on the subject, unless you adressed me without a quote and I missed it.

My suspicion comes down to whether or not I believe you here, and at the moment I do not. But there's still plenty we can pull out from here to work on this some more. Let's look at these words you said:

No baddiedar is different. I have no impulse to vote for you but in a gth scenario I do think you are still bad.

Why would you have no impulse to vote for me if you GTH me as bad? Am I a suspect or am I not? You claim that your Day 4 vote was based on the strategy of avoiding having your vote align with mine. Ouch, that's pretty damning. Yet I'm not a player you'd vote for? This, once again, does not compute.

But this also still leaves the biggest question I have up in the air, and that is the original point I brought up. You took me off your baddiedar on Night 2 and then later, on Day/Night 4, you tried to say that I'd never been removed as a suspect. "baddiedar" to me just looks like a playful way of saying "suspect". Kinda like how I ask people who they're voting for rather than who they suspect. It's fine to change your mind every once in a while, so I'd make no objection if you removed me on Day 2 and then put me back on on Day 4. But the way you tried to, apparently, backtrack out of this, first by saying it never happened, and then by saying there's a difference between "baddiedar" and your GTH reads. I feel like you were caught in a slip up and then tried to lie about it. If I am wrong I'll make a note of it for future games. I don't think I am wrong.

I'm unsure how this doesn't make sense if you understand the difference between I'd vote for ______ and I suspect _____. Day 2 I would've voted for you. Happily actually. I still need to quote for JJJ what made me think that and will do asap. Day 4, I wouldn't have voted for you, but vote along you? No way.

Tell me when I backtracked? When I stated this never happened. No wait I just checked to make sure I'm not just wrong in the head, I never claimed that you coming off my baddiedar never happened. I did however say you weren't in my good graces. As far as I'm concerned you've always been a suspect for me, but I've only wanted to vote for you day 2 and then after the "If INH flips town, then Wilgy looks bad" claim.

[DrWilgy]

Sloonei, what do you think of the value of a gth as a game progresses?

[Sloonei]

if INH is town, Wilgy looks bad right now.

Actually, you are bad. Explain this Sloonei.

While a single sentence may be hard, the strongest cause of suspicion is in the above quote.

I feel that Sloonei was fully expecting a INH civ flip and over eagerly tried to throw fault at me for thus flip.

I was not.

Mostly your treatment of after the deadline. I only qualified the statement because if INH flipped bad it'd be hard to argue that the guy who just hammered on a baddie is also a baddie. But, from my perspective, it looks like you genuinely just forgot that you'd dropped your suspicion of me and then had to cover your tracks.
Plus you never told us why you went from INH to indi and back to INH in the final minutes. What inspired you to move your vote to indiglo? How do you feel about Glorfindel?

This is irrelevant to the question I asked. "from my perspective" is also a fodder statement. Of course this is from your perspective, this is your thought. I get baddie vibes from fodder statements like this, as it's symptoms of a skittling player. Baddies skittle more than civs.
This is just false as I explained my vote changes in the following quotes.
[a bunch of quotes where Wilgy explains what he was doing at the end of Day 5]

Linki - Stop saying things that aren't happening Sloonei.

RE: The orange: How is that irrelevant to what you asked? You asked my explain why you looked bad. I think you look bad because you appear to have forgotten what your read on me was. That's the #1 reason I suspect you, how can you say it's irrelevant to the question of why I think you are bad. And I added the "from my perspective" thing because I don't think anyone else would be as hyper-aware of what your read on me is/was as I am. Yeah, it's a bit of a redundancy but whatever.

I admit the blue part is false. It was a chaotic end of day. I suppose I was hoping you'd give a more substantive reason to suspect either indiglo or INH, rather than just eyeballing the bandwagon participants.

But since we're on the subject, you looked a little skittish at that end of day yourself, the way you danced around with your vote. Regardless of what your reasoning was, you appeared very indecisive.

Re re orange: because it is irrelevant to what I asked, you also snipped too much of the conversation. The context you presented was "If INH flips good, Wilgy looks bad" how did INH and I have anything to do with one another that would have caused this blanket statement? I'm aware of the previous suspicion that you restated that I outlined in orange, but how does that have anything to do with the relationship between inh and I if INH was town and me being bad?

I already explained this as well. I qualified that statement the way I did because if INH had flipped bad, you'd look good for having provided the deciding vote in his lynch. If he flipped good, you are just a guy who hammered on a townie. That is your association. You voted to lynch him.

[Sloonei]

@Sloon the 3 false infos you haev provided as follows:
1. Claiming I hadn't explained my voting the day I had to swap between INH and indiglo.
2. Claiming I hadn't responded to your primary suspicion of me.
3. Claiming that I'm inconsistent for quoting and responding to something directed at JJJ.

I'll need to tackle your last posts 1 at a time Sloon.

1. Fair, acknowledged.
2. You hadn't. You responded to my initial gripes but hadn't addressed the full blown case. But that wasn't really something I suspected you for. I was just pointing out that you'd not responded to it yet because you seemed to be making an effort to (appreciated) but hadn't gotten around to it yet.
3. That was a misunderstanding and, again, not something I found you suspicious for.

Point 2 - where in my pointing out to adressing your suspicion did I not provide? And dont say your recent posts because thats coming.
Point 3 - false information spread is still false information.

I can imagine someone making a mistake, but it's hard for me not to have suspicion of this when you hit strike 3 Sloon.

Linki - have fun talk to you tomorrow Sloonei.

You made this post to address what I think you thought was my biggest reason for suspecting you. It was not. When I claimed that you had not addressed my suspicion despite appearing to want to, this is what I meant. You showed a desire to address me, but had not yet done so. You have now. I'm not totally sure what you are asking here.

I don't think I am above suspicion, I am just trying to help you understand the things I've said. That said, I don't think it's fair to categorize this as "three instances of Sloonei spreading false information" or whatever your words were. I made an oversight, I misunderstood a thing you said, and you perhaps misunderstood a thing I said.

[Sloonei]

Snipped for brevity

No baddiedar is different. I have no impulse to vote for you but in a gth scenario I do think you are still bad.

Honestly at this point with how little time ive had to read/contribute all my thoughts are just a gth random mess.

You think this computes over here? "Off the baddiedar" seems to strongly suggest "not a suspect".

And followed up here.

Nah. Baddies I'd vote for. GTH baddies I still need to think about.

Glorf why is it 5-3 then?

And that was the full conversation on the subject, unless you adressed me without a quote and I missed it.

My suspicion comes down to whether or not I believe you here, and at the moment I do not. But there's still plenty we can pull out from here to work on this some more. Let's look at these words you said:

No baddiedar is different. I have no impulse to vote for you but in a gth scenario I do think you are still bad.

Why would you have no impulse to vote for me if you GTH me as bad? Am I a suspect or am I not? You claim that your Day 4 vote was based on the strategy of avoiding having your vote align with mine. Ouch, that's pretty damning. Yet I'm not a player you'd vote for? This, once again, does not compute.

But this also still leaves the biggest question I have up in the air, and that is the original point I brought up. You took me off your baddiedar on Night 2 and then later, on Day/Night 4, you tried to say that I'd never been removed as a suspect. "baddiedar" to me just looks like a playful way of saying "suspect". Kinda like how I ask people who they're voting for rather than who they suspect. It's fine to change your mind every once in a while, so I'd make no objection if you removed me on Day 2 and then put me back on on Day 4. But the way you tried to, apparently, backtrack out of this, first by saying it never happened, and then by saying there's a difference between "baddiedar" and your GTH reads. I feel like you were caught in a slip up and then tried to lie about it. If I am wrong I'll make a note of it for future games. I don't think I am wrong.

I'm unsure how this doesn't make sense if you understand the difference between I'd vote for ______ and I suspect _____. Day 2 I would've voted for you. Happily actually. I still need to quote for JJJ what made me think that and will do asap. Day 4, I wouldn't have voted for you, but vote along you? No way.

Tell me when I backtracked? When I stated this never happened. No wait I just checked to make sure I'm not just wrong in the head, I never claimed that you coming off my baddiedar never happened. I did however say you weren't in my good graces. As far as I'm concerned you've always been a suspect for me, but I've only wanted to vote for you day 2 and then after the "If INH flips town, then Wilgy looks bad" claim.

The backtracking is in my interpretation of your actions. I still stand by it. I take "off my baddiedar" to mean that I am not a suspect. You later said I had "never left your bad graces". The language is different, but the sentiment in the former comes back to me as "Sloonei is not a suspect", and in the latter it comes back as "Sloonei is a suspect and always has been." This is a contradiction as I see it. Your response has been to deny that this contradiction exists by explaining that there are categorically different kinds of suspicions in the game, and that I met the parameters for Suspicion Type A, but not for Suspicion Type B. I simply am not buying it. You'll need to sell it to me if you want me to read you as town.

[Sloonei]

Sloonei, what do you think of the value of a gth as a game progresses?

I think they're a good way to force reads out of people and (if the method is popular enough) to get a sense of where the town's collective thoughts are. I think gut/GTH reads in general can be helpful in personally sussing things out, but I don't rely on them to win the game completely. Again not sure what you're asking.

[Sloonei]

Let's review some of Zebra's strongest stances taken in this game:

~ Ricochet is bad.

~ Elohcin is good.

~ MovingPictures07 is bad.

I have spent the whole game thinking she looked genuine in her incorrectness, and I was willing to forgive. I ask myself now though, especially in the wake of Mac dying, whether I was being too easy on her. Zebra by her very nature as a player is very assertive about her manner of conveying her reads whether they are real or fake. That assertiveness is easy to mistake for sincerity, which is her best skill as a player.

Now we have Epignosis going after Mac right before his death in a way that perfectly recalls the circumstances earlier in the game, to the point that coincidence appears less likely than intent. I think motel room was making a valid inference when he suggested this first, and it was my immediate reaction to the reveal of Mac's death. Now, consider the most likely impact of a MacDougall death -- Glorfindel gets wasted today. It's the absolute easiest means of night kill manipulation on the table, and I am not inclined to bite. I think Glorfindel is the carrot, and either Epignosis or Sloonei is dangling that carrot.

I could see this as a strategy that scum Epi would use. Given how tentative so many reads in this game feel, it probably wouldn't be too hard to tip things in any direction right now if the baddies want to do that, and if they're actively involved then that is what they want to do right now. Given this and my sudden town read on Glorf, I'm loosening up on the good vibes I got from Epi last night.

3J manufactures a reason to suspect me (as I don't believe he really does), and you "could see this as a strategy that scum Epi would use."

Super.

Tell me- when I am bad, what strategies are off the table?

I think he suspects you. He is currently voting for you and this looks like a genuine thought process. I can see it as something you'd do, yes. I'm not saying I'm convinced of anything. This is not a crusade. Just keeping an open mind. You've said yourself, somewhere, I think it was in Red vs. Blue that most of those numerous banners of yours have come from scum performances. You're a crafty baddie. The only strategies I'd take off the table for you are things that skirt or break the rules of the game. Take it as a compliment.

You think he genuinely thinks I'm bad? I don't. I know 3J. We go way back.

He voted me because I wasn't on here at all. Then he voted like fourteen other people. Then I logged on and went off to do other things, and I guarantee you he saw me online and voted for me again.

That is what I believe his thought process to be. He can state otherwise.

If you will, describe how you arrived at the conclusion that this was his "genuine thought process" (your words).

You are correct about me. I won't break the rules, but I also won't lie about real life. I don't consider either of those things strategies, but rather "cheating" and "being unfair," respectively.

I also know him, we go way backer.

I think he assessed Mac's nightkill and started theorizing about what happened. I think a possibility he saw was that one of the two of us had killed Mac in order to guide the town toward Glorfindel, one of Mac's top suspects whose lynch train was gaining steam. He suggested this theory, I agreed that it's a possibility. You insist that it's not.

I probably won't end up reading through your posts, Sloonei.

I got my hopes up. Will you at least read this one and the links contained therein?

I read it.

I don't care that you ask questions. I didn't care for the timing of your question, as though I had a planned answer or something. A backup, as it were. You were setting me up.

It was timed that way because it was the first post of the day. What was I even setting you up for? I'm asking you to name suspects. How is that a setup? That's what this game is.

You gave me no opportunity to reevaluate. I timed my case against MacDougall so that no one could change a night action before the post. I think were high on coincidence and sprang to incriminate me.[/quote]That's.... not what happened. My question was not meant to be hard hitting. You were one of my strongest town reads before this whole episode. I was trying to do nothing more than get the ball rolling on Day 6 discussions. Your defensiveness against this point is starting to make me uneasy as well. Rather than share whatever thoughts you might have, you turned the notion of being asked a question into a suspicion. Really marvelous smokescreen you got there.

[Sloonei]

Westworld was really good this week, by the way. I'm actually sleeping now.

[Sloonei]

but first i want to fix my formatting mistake

I probably won't end up reading through your posts, Sloonei.

I got my hopes up. Will you at least read this one and the links contained therein?

I read it.

I don't care that you ask questions. I didn't care for the timing of your question, as though I had a planned answer or something. A backup, as it were. You were setting me up.

It was timed that way because it was the first post of the day. What was I even setting you up for? I'm asking you to name suspects. How is that a setup? That's what this game is.

You gave me no opportunity to reevaluate. I timed my case against MacDougall so that no one could change a night action before the post. I think were high on coincidence and sprang to incriminate me.

That's.... not what happened. My question was not meant to be hard hitting. You were one of my strongest town reads before this whole episode. I was trying to do nothing more than get the ball rolling on Day 6 discussions. Your defensiveness against this point is starting to make me uneasy as well. Rather than share whatever thoughts you might have, you turned the notion of being asked a question into a suspicion. Really marvelous smokescreen you got there.[/quote]

[Sloonei]

close enough.

[Dom]

This was my answer to your question, Dom. Please point out the parts of it which you object to:

Sloonei who are you going to vote for?

if they die who are you going to vote for?

if they die who are you going to vote for?


Quinn: Citation needed that Mac didn't like me.

I am currently voting for Glorfindel until further notice. I am also considering everyone else.

This doesn't answer the question in any way that is useful. AGain, why is Epi fully responsible for knowing who he's voting for the second his top suspect dies but you are not?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Epignosis being more concerned with whether I really suspect him than the content of my post makes me want to leave my vote there. The correct answer, by the way, was that the suspicion was real.

[Quin]

In reading Dom's posts this interaction with LoRab stands out to me:

My other suspicions are more amorphous: the low posters because they don't give us anything to go on. I keep getting pings from Dom, but he has also said things that feel civ to me--but he's on my list of considerations.

Which is so unsubstantial I don't even know how you'd like me to respond.

This post is a shitstorm. You do the following things in it:
1) Make no direct accusation. Let others do that for you.
2) Imply malintent on my part by using relatively *neutral* words like curious, but pairing it with an ellipses.
3) Not even have anything really to respond to.

This fits the narrative that LoRab is being overly cautious in giving out baddie reads. Whether it's just the way she plays or not, at the very least it makes me want to look at her more closely.

[Quin]

I am pinged by LoRab's decision not to offer a read on anything.

I don't have any strong opinions. I think the pissing contest has drawn a neutral read. I think JJJ is vaguely pingy. I don't have other thoughts. And, seriously, I have just gotten through one of the most challenging weeks of my life. There are maybe 2 other times in my life that I've been as emotionally exhausted as I am right now. I don't particularly want to go into more detail, but I will if I need to. Those that are friends with me on fb can attest to the fact that I'm having a really, really crappy week. And those that have been playing with me for nearly a decade know that I don't play the emotion card except when I'm really in a bad place.

Processing mafia reads is using a really minimal level of brain wavelength because that's all I have to give right now. If that makes me suspicious, so be it.

LoRab's 'I won't pretend to have greater suspicions than I actually have' defence is consistent, addressing her lack of reads on Day 1. I don't think there is anything suspicious in her 'reserved' approach to the game.

[Quin]

Sloonei has votes. Not cool. I'm breaking the tie.

[DrWilgy]

if INH is town, Wilgy looks bad right now.

Actually, you are bad. Explain this Sloonei.

While a single sentence may be hard, the strongest cause of suspicion is in the above quote.

I feel that Sloonei was fully expecting a INH civ flip and over eagerly tried to throw fault at me for thus flip.

I was not.

Mostly your treatment of after the deadline. I only qualified the statement because if INH flipped bad it'd be hard to argue that the guy who just hammered on a baddie is also a baddie. But, from my perspective, it looks like you genuinely just forgot that you'd dropped your suspicion of me and then had to cover your tracks.
Plus you never told us why you went from INH to indi and back to INH in the final minutes. What inspired you to move your vote to indiglo? How do you feel about Glorfindel?

This is irrelevant to the question I asked. "from my perspective" is also a fodder statement. Of course this is from your perspective, this is your thought. I get baddie vibes from fodder statements like this, as it's symptoms of a skittling player. Baddies skittle more than civs.
This is just false as I explained my vote changes in the following quotes.
[a bunch of quotes where Wilgy explains what he was doing at the end of Day 5]

Linki - Stop saying things that aren't happening Sloonei.

RE: The orange: How is that irrelevant to what you asked? You asked my explain why you looked bad. I think you look bad because you appear to have forgotten what your read on me was. That's the #1 reason I suspect you, how can you say it's irrelevant to the question of why I think you are bad. And I added the "from my perspective" thing because I don't think anyone else would be as hyper-aware of what your read on me is/was as I am. Yeah, it's a bit of a redundancy but whatever.

I admit the blue part is false. It was a chaotic end of day. I suppose I was hoping you'd give a more substantive reason to suspect either indiglo or INH, rather than just eyeballing the bandwagon participants.

But since we're on the subject, you looked a little skittish at that end of day yourself, the way you danced around with your vote. Regardless of what your reasoning was, you appeared very indecisive.

Re re orange: because it is irrelevant to what I asked, you also snipped too much of the conversation. The context you presented was "If INH flips good, Wilgy looks bad" how did INH and I have anything to do with one another that would have caused this blanket statement? I'm aware of the previous suspicion that you restated that I outlined in orange, but how does that have anything to do with the relationship between inh and I if INH was town and me being bad?

I already explained this as well. I qualified that statement the way I did because if INH had flipped bad, you'd look good for having provided the deciding vote in his lynch. If he flipped good, you are just a guy who hammered on a townie. That is your association. You voted to lynch him.

This is silly. One could've stated "If Indiglo flips good, Wilgy looks good" or "if INH flips bad, Wilgy looks good". Assuming you are civilian, you had no means of telling indi's or INH's alignment. Looking back on it, now that we know Indiglo's alignment, your claim was even sillier.

[Sloonei]

if INH is town, Wilgy looks bad right now.

Actually, you are bad. Explain this Sloonei.

While a single sentence may be hard, the strongest cause of suspicion is in the above quote.

I feel that Sloonei was fully expecting a INH civ flip and over eagerly tried to throw fault at me for thus flip.

I was not.

Mostly your treatment of after the deadline. I only qualified the statement because if INH flipped bad it'd be hard to argue that the guy who just hammered on a baddie is also a baddie. But, from my perspective, it looks like you genuinely just forgot that you'd dropped your suspicion of me and then had to cover your tracks.
Plus you never told us why you went from INH to indi and back to INH in the final minutes. What inspired you to move your vote to indiglo? How do you feel about Glorfindel?

This is irrelevant to the question I asked. "from my perspective" is also a fodder statement. Of course this is from your perspective, this is your thought. I get baddie vibes from fodder statements like this, as it's symptoms of a skittling player. Baddies skittle more than civs.
This is just false as I explained my vote changes in the following quotes.
[a bunch of quotes where Wilgy explains what he was doing at the end of Day 5]

Linki - Stop saying things that aren't happening Sloonei.

RE: The orange: How is that irrelevant to what you asked? You asked my explain why you looked bad. I think you look bad because you appear to have forgotten what your read on me was. That's the #1 reason I suspect you, how can you say it's irrelevant to the question of why I think you are bad. And I added the "from my perspective" thing because I don't think anyone else would be as hyper-aware of what your read on me is/was as I am. Yeah, it's a bit of a redundancy but whatever.

I admit the blue part is false. It was a chaotic end of day. I suppose I was hoping you'd give a more substantive reason to suspect either indiglo or INH, rather than just eyeballing the bandwagon participants.

But since we're on the subject, you looked a little skittish at that end of day yourself, the way you danced around with your vote. Regardless of what your reasoning was, you appeared very indecisive.

Re re orange: because it is irrelevant to what I asked, you also snipped too much of the conversation. The context you presented was "If INH flips good, Wilgy looks bad" how did INH and I have anything to do with one another that would have caused this blanket statement? I'm aware of the previous suspicion that you restated that I outlined in orange, but how does that have anything to do with the relationship between inh and I if INH was town and me being bad?

I already explained this as well. I qualified that statement the way I did because if INH had flipped bad, you'd look good for having provided the deciding vote in his lynch. If he flipped good, you are just a guy who hammered on a townie. That is your association. You voted to lynch him.

This is silly. One could've stated "If Indiglo flips good, Wilgy looks good" or "if INH flips bad, Wilgy looks good". Assuming you are civilian, you had no means of telling indi's or INH's alignment. Looking back on it, now that we know Indiglo's alignment, your claim was even sillier.

the point is i thought you looked bad but needed to be sure INH was not bad before I could determine how to read you. It is not silly, it's Mafia 101.

[Sloonei]

This was my answer to your question, Dom. Please point out the parts of it which you object to:

Sloonei who are you going to vote for?

if they die who are you going to vote for?

if they die who are you going to vote for?


Quinn: Citation needed that Mac didn't like me.

I am currently voting for Glorfindel until further notice. I am also considering everyone else.

This doesn't answer the question in any way that is useful. AGain, why is Epi fully responsible for knowing who he's voting for the second his top suspect dies but you are not?

He's not and I never said he was.

[Sloonei]

Sloonei has votes. Not cool. I'm breaking the tie.

I want to say I'm suspicious of all three of the players voting for me, but that would be a highly unusual scum tactic, for all three of them to pile on a single player like that. But each of them is being kind of outrageous in their treatment of me. I think they are trying really really hard to spin some very harmless things I said into malevolence.

[Sloonei]

Of the three, Epi's behavior is the most difficult to grasp. He latched onto the very first thing I said today and has neither let go of it or moved on. He's still stuck on saying I was setting him up by asking him the softest softball of a question one can ask in mafia. I do not get it if he's town. If he's scum I can see an angle for it, but I do not think it would be his best or most likely move.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Sloonei has votes. Not cool. I'm breaking the tie.

I want to say I'm suspicious of all three of the players voting for me, but that would be a highly unusual scum tactic, for all three of them to pile on a single player like that. But each of them is being kind of outrageous in their treatment of me. I think they are trying really really hard to spin some very harmless things I said into malevolence.

Wilgy's vote is 95% self-preservation anyway independent of his claimed suspicion of you. I'd expect one or two of those names to be baddies.

[Sloonei]

Wilgy seems hellbent on combatting everything I say regardless, and Dom has just wildly misunderstood a post I made. From most suspicious to least:
Wilgy
Epi
Dom

I'd still like to take a look at LoRab, I'll do that after breakfast.

Linki: it's self-preservation now, but his behavior has been resolutely opposed to me for a while now.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

To me, the notion that Sloonei was trying to set up or implicate Epignosis falls flat given that Sloonei never actually cast suspicion on him until after being accused of that.

[Epignosis]

Epignosis being more concerned with whether I really suspect him than the content of my post makes me want to leave my vote there. The correct answer, by the way, was that the suspicion was real.

I wasn't concerned, but since you say this is what you really think, it means you believe my opinion of Sloonei is fabricated. Very well. It isn't. I'm not going to put on a dog and pony show for the sake of appeasing you or changing your mind. It also means you believe your theory is that I killed Mac to set up Glorfindel. That's wrong too, but if that's what you want to go with, go with it.

Of the three, Epi's behavior is the most difficult to grasp. He latched onto the very first thing I said today and has neither let go of it or moved on. He's still stuck on saying I was setting him up by asking him the softest softball of a question one can ask in mafia. I do not get it if he's town. If he's scum I can see an angle for it, but I do not think it would be his best or most likely move.

People trying to predict me.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Epignosis being more concerned with whether I really suspect him than the content of my post makes me want to leave my vote there. The correct answer, by the way, was that the suspicion was real.

I wasn't concerned, but since you say this is what you really think, it means you believe my opinion of Sloonei is fabricated. Very well. It isn't. I'm not going to put on a dog and pony show for the sake of appeasing you or changing your mind. It also means you believe your theory is that I killed Mac to set up Glorfindel. That's wrong too, but if that's what you want to go with, go with it.

Do you think Sloonei killed Mac to set you up?

[Sloonei]

What do other people make of the case(s) being made against me by those three? They look ridiculous from my point of view but it's not fair of me to judge them like that.
Contrary to what I said above, I think Wilgy's suspicion holds the most water.

Linki: that's a start

[Sloonei]

Epignosis being more concerned with whether I really suspect him than the content of my post makes me want to leave my vote there. The correct answer, by the way, was that the suspicion was real.

I wasn't concerned, but since you say this is what you really think, it means you believe my opinion of Sloonei is fabricated. Very well. It isn't. I'm not going to put on a dog and pony show for the sake of appeasing you or changing your mind. It also means you believe your theory is that I killed Mac to set up Glorfindel. That's wrong too, but if that's what you want to go with, go with it.

Of the three, Epi's behavior is the most difficult to grasp. He latched onto the very first thing I said today and has neither let go of it or moved on. He's still stuck on saying I was setting him up by asking him the softest softball of a question one can ask in mafia. I do not get it if he's town. If he's scum I can see an angle for it, but I do not think it would be his best or most likely move.

People trying to predict me.

So you admit you are bad?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Does anyone think this is meaningful? It's influencing my reads, but I grant there's WIFOM in play and I'm open to having my mind changed.

[DrWilgy]

Wilgy seems hellbent on combatting everything I say regardless, and Dom has just wildly misunderstood a post I made. From most suspicious to least:
Wilgy
Epi
Dom

I'd still like to take a look at LoRab, I'll do that after breakfast.

Linki: it's self-preservation now, but his behavior has been resolutely opposed to me for a while now.

Of course I'm hellbent on countering everything you say. You are actively lying about me and thigs I've done to incriminate me.

[Sloonei]

Does anyone think this is meaningful? It's influencing my reads, but I grant there's WIFOM in play and I'm open to having my mind changed.

It could come in handy and I would not disregard your findings. I am not usually one to engage in extensive night kill analysis, so I'm not sure where to go from here with it. Those couple of people who are orange have another strike against them.
For the record though, I think Mac and SVS were both suspiciois of me at some point.

[Epignosis]

Epignosis being more concerned with whether I really suspect him than the content of my post makes me want to leave my vote there. The correct answer, by the way, was that the suspicion was real.

I wasn't concerned, but since you say this is what you really think, it means you believe my opinion of Sloonei is fabricated. Very well. It isn't. I'm not going to put on a dog and pony show for the sake of appeasing you or changing your mind. It also means you believe your theory is that I killed Mac to set up Glorfindel. That's wrong too, but if that's what you want to go with, go with it.

Do you think Sloonei killed Mac to set you up?

Not really. From my experience, people usually get killed for three reasons: The victim is on the right track, the victim has a reputation as a strong civilian, or to keep things as unpredictable as possible. I don't often see too many mafias kill people to set someone up, because that sort of play rarely works out as planned. Nobody seems to think Mac was on the right track with Glorfindel, and he wasn't on the right track with me. Wilgy is a mystery to me, as always. Killing MacDougall, who could have been lynched, smells more like the third option, although you could make the case that MacDougall is a volatile player, and volatile civilians- those who can turn on you in an instant and with great fervor- are dangerous civilians.

Epignosis being more concerned with whether I really suspect him than the content of my post makes me want to leave my vote there. The correct answer, by the way, was that the suspicion was real.

I wasn't concerned, but since you say this is what you really think, it means you believe my opinion of Sloonei is fabricated. Very well. It isn't. I'm not going to put on a dog and pony show for the sake of appeasing you or changing your mind. It also means you believe your theory is that I killed Mac to set up Glorfindel. That's wrong too, but if that's what you want to go with, go with it.

Of the three, Epi's behavior is the most difficult to grasp. He latched onto the very first thing I said today and has neither let go of it or moved on. He's still stuck on saying I was setting him up by asking him the softest softball of a question one can ask in mafia. I do not get it if he's town. If he's scum I can see an angle for it, but I do not think it would be his best or most likely move.

People trying to predict me.

So you admit you are bad?

No.

[Sloonei]

Wilgy seems hellbent on combatting everything I say regardless, and Dom has just wildly misunderstood a post I made. From most suspicious to least:
Wilgy
Epi
Dom

I'd still like to take a look at LoRab, I'll do that after breakfast.

Linki: it's self-preservation now, but his behavior has been resolutely opposed to me for a while now.

Of course I'm hellbent on countering everything you say. You are actively lying about me and thigs I've done to incriminate me.

What am I currently lying about? I think you scumslipped and are therefore bad. You are rejecting everything I say about you. You said it's ridiculous that I waited to learn the alignment of a player you cast the deciding vote against before I judged your actions. That's just blind contradiction, honestly.

[Sloonei]

Hey Epi what do you think of the ongoing conversation between Wilgy and I? There's quite a lot of dirt on both of us in there.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Of course I'm hellbent on countering everything you say. You are actively lying about me and thigs I've done to incriminate me.

I'm listening, Wilgy. I'm just having a little trouble following. Would you be able to make a point-by-point list of the lies you feel Sloonei has told and also provide the specific posts you're referencing both from yourself and from Sloonei which show that he is stating falsehoods?

I'm not going to help lynch you (or trust Sloonei) by default. I'm open to hearing you out, I just need some help here. If you feel you've already done this clearly, please point the way.

[Epignosis]

Hey Epi what do you think of the ongoing conversation between Wilgy and I? There's quite a lot of dirt on both of us in there.

I will admit I haven't kept up with Wilgy very well. I feel like lynching Wilgy if he's bad in general is the product of luck. I'll take a look at him and his interactions with you over lunch while I grade stuff.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

if INH is town, Wilgy looks bad right now.

Returning to this Sloonei:

Did you feel Wilgy would look bad simply because of when and where his vote landed? Moreover, did the alignment of indiglo mean anything to you when considering this?

[Sloonei]

if INH is town, Wilgy looks bad right now.

Returning to this Sloonei:

Did you feel Wilgy would look bad simply because of when and where his vote landed? Moreover, did the alignment of indiglo mean anything to you when considering this?

I thought Wilgy's behavior overall looked bad around that EoD, but I needed to wait for INH's alignment because, like I've said, I wasn't about to go off accusing the guy who just helped us lynch a bad guy of being bad himself. I think I made this post after Wilgy's apparent scumslip.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think I made this post after Wilgy's apparent scumslip.

"Scumslip" is a surprising word. Are you referring to the moment where his gun to head read didn't mesh with his developing read?

[Sloonei]

I think I made this post after Wilgy's apparent scumslip.

"Scumslip" is a surprising word. Are you referring to the moment where his gun to head read didn't mesh with his developing read?

Yes. His responses to my initial accusation have not been encouraging so I am inclined to believe the suspicion is justified.

[DrWilgy]

Of course I'm hellbent on countering everything you say. You are actively lying about me and thigs I've done to incriminate me.

I'm listening, Wilgy. I'm just having a little trouble following. Would you be able to make a point-by-point list of the lies you feel Sloonei has told and also provide the specific posts you're referencing both from yourself and from Sloonei which show that he is stating falsehoods?

I'm not going to help lynch you (or trust Sloonei) by default. I'm open to hearing you out, I just need some help here. If you feel you've already done this clearly, please point the way.

You see this is hard but I can highlight afew. My 1, 2, 3 is a good starting point.

This is a good example of having alot to voivlce and say but not enough time to say it.

[Sloonei]

This post contains the complete discussion of my lies so far, I think. This lacks in background information though.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

This post contains the complete discussion of my lies so far, I think. This lacks in background information though.

That link goes to the top of a page.

[DrWilgy]

Wilgy seems hellbent on combatting everything I say regardless, and Dom has just wildly misunderstood a post I made. From most suspicious to least:
Wilgy
Epi
Dom

I'd still like to take a look at LoRab, I'll do that after breakfast.

Linki: it's self-preservation now, but his behavior has been resolutely opposed to me for a while now.

Of course I'm hellbent on countering everything you say. You are actively lying about me and thigs I've done to incriminate me.

What am I currently lying about? I think you scumslipped and are therefore bad. You are rejecting everything I say about you. You said it's ridiculous that I waited to learn the alignment of a player you cast the deciding vote against before I judged your actions. That's just blind contradiction, honestly.

Here's one. I haven't regected everything you have said Sloon. I understand your suspicion, and explained my perspective on it. We don't need to agree on that, it's perspective and I can't reject that, but why over exaggerate?

[Sloonei]

This post contains the complete discussion of my lies so far, I think. This lacks in background information though.

That link goes to the top of a page.

it works for me. But:

Spoiler: show

@Sloon the 3 false infos you haev provided as follows:
1. Claiming I hadn't explained my voting the day I had to swap between INH and indiglo.
2. Claiming I hadn't responded to your primary suspicion of me.
3. Claiming that I'm inconsistent for quoting and responding to something directed at JJJ.

I'll need to tackle your last posts 1 at a time Sloon.

1. Fair, acknowledged.
2. You hadn't. You responded to my initial gripes but hadn't addressed the full blown case. But that wasn't really something I suspected you for. I was just pointing out that you'd not responded to it yet because you seemed to be making an effort to (appreciated) but hadn't gotten around to it yet.
3. That was a misunderstanding and, again, not something I found you suspicious for.

Point 2 - where in my pointing out to adressing your suspicion did I not provide? And dont say your recent posts because thats coming.
Point 3 - false information spread is still false information.

I can imagine someone making a mistake, but it's hard for me not to have suspicion of this when you hit strike 3 Sloon.

Linki - have fun talk to you tomorrow Sloonei.

You made this post to address what I think you thought was my biggest reason for suspecting you. It was not. When I claimed that you had not addressed my suspicion despite appearing to want to, this is what I meant. You showed a desire to address me, but had not yet done so. You have now. I'm not totally sure what you are asking here.

I don't think I am above suspicion, I am just trying to help you understand the things I've said. That said, I don't think it's fair to categorize this as "three instances of Sloonei spreading false information" or whatever your words were. I made an oversight, I misunderstood a thing you said, and you perhaps misunderstood a thing I said.

[Sloonei]

Wilgy seems hellbent on combatting everything I say regardless, and Dom has just wildly misunderstood a post I made. From most suspicious to least:
Wilgy
Epi
Dom

I'd still like to take a look at LoRab, I'll do that after breakfast.

Linki: it's self-preservation now, but his behavior has been resolutely opposed to me for a while now.

Of course I'm hellbent on countering everything you say. You are actively lying about me and thigs I've done to incriminate me.

What am I currently lying about? I think you scumslipped and are therefore bad. You are rejecting everything I say about you. You said it's ridiculous that I waited to learn the alignment of a player you cast the deciding vote against before I judged your actions. That's just blind contradiction, honestly.

Here's one. I haven't regected everything you have said Sloon. I understand your suspicion, and explained my perspective on it. We don't need to agree on that, it's perspective and I can't reject that, but why over exaggerate?

Because hyperbole is fun. You are rejecting a lot of things I say, though. You're holding onto the angle that I'm spreading false information (see: this post), you won't accept the idea that I was waiting to see INH's flip before calling you bad and you've insisted more than once that that information is not relevant.
Plus none of this involves my most pressing reason to suspect you, but I don't expect you to address then when you're short on time so it's no big deal.