MAD MAX: GAME OVER

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Then I'd probably say it's the former. What are you thoughts on Scotty and INH?

Right now Scotty is more lynchable than INH. I would happily consider a case against either of them.

[Quin]

Then I'd probably say it's the former. What are you thoughts on Scotty and INH?

Right now Scotty is more lynchable than INH. I would happily consider a case against either of them.

Would you still consider an INH lynch given that the context of his lynch post infers a relationship to Silvertongue?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Then I'd probably say it's the former. What are you thoughts on Scotty and INH?

Right now Scotty is more lynchable than INH. I would happily consider a case against either of them.

Would you still consider an INH lynch given that the context of his lynch post infers a relationship to Silvertongue?

I'd at least consider it. There remains the possibility that someone else is Silvertongue and saved him -- that being Glorfindel (the only person promoting an alternative theory and resisting the Silvertongue theory). If Glorfindel is not Silvertongue then I think the likelihood that INH is increases significantly.

G-Man also kind of pooh-poohed the notion that his host posts are filled with clues this time.

[Quin]

Then I'd probably say it's the former. What are you thoughts on Scotty and INH?

Right now Scotty is more lynchable than INH. I would happily consider a case against either of them.

Would you still consider an INH lynch given that the context of his lynch post infers a relationship to Silvertongue?

I'd at least consider it. There remains the possibility that someone else is Silvertongue and saved him -- that being Glorfindel (the only person promoting an alternative theory and resisting the Silvertongue theory). If Glorfindel is not Silvertongue then I think the likelihood that INH is increases significantly.

G-Man also kind of pooh-poohed the notion that his host posts are filled with clues this time.

G-Man's night post also made the inference that you were saved by the doctor. If I'm going to believe in that inference (which I do), I'm also going to believe that INH was saved by Silvertongue.

You earlier entertained this post:

Spoiler: show

Someone look at INH's vote records after I'm gone. If his votes have been irrelevant many times in a row he may be Cundilini hiding his lack of vote power.

That's... a great point.

Assuming he was saved by Silvertongue, I don't think INH can be Cundalini. In that scenario his lynch wouldn't have triggered his self-protect and would still have voting power, which is inconsistent with his past two voting behaviours. Unless he's fucking with us.

[Glorfindel]

I want to hear what Glorfindel thinks of Scotty.

Voting Glorfindel.

Go Cubs.

I assume there was some reason that you wouldn't extend to me the courtesy of making a reply, my friend Or perhaps you weren't genuinely interested in what I had to say on this topic after all? In any case, you shall have your answer!

Sprityo/Scotty 2.0
Day/Night 1.1: Sprityo starts off Day 1 with what appears a light-hearted vote on Jay (AKA Neil) then engages Jay in some remarks here that could be construed as buddying.
1.2: He (attempts) to quote a post from Zebs whose views he claims to share on the matter of the Ricochet/MacDougall fracas and follows this with more Jay banter.
1.3: Involves himself in the DrWilgy/MacDougall 'teaming up request'.
1.4: In this post, he supports a criticism by Jay of one of Elohcin's posts indicating her pursuit of Scotty 1.0

Day/Night 2.1: Confronts DrWilgy over Wilgy's assertion that "The only other player that I have thought about is Sprityo, whom I gut read as bad."
2.2: In this post, Sprityo is seeking to explain his theory on why he interpreted Epi 1.0's last minute vote change suspicious.
2.3: In this post, he brushes of Dr Wilgy's suspicion of him.
2.4: He responds to Sloonei recommending that INH be cut some slack after his Day 2 remarks on the basis that he sees INH as a null or "scummy at worst" read.

Day/Night 4.1: This is one of Scotty's first posts after replacing Sprityo. He claims not to have read any of the thread since his demise on Day 1 yet states that he believes that DrWilgey (one of Sprityo's principal protagonists) is suspicious based on the "polls of the last few days".
4.2: Asks the assembled multitude to explain on what grounds his predecessor (Sprityo) was suspicious.
4.3: Here he defends his vote on DrWilgy to Jay and Motel Room based on 'the vote polls' and specifically the fact that Wilgy's votes paralleled Elohcin's.
4.4: Claims a gut Mafia read on Motel Room
4.5: States that he's not sure about Quin but in the same breath praises him for the content of his posts.

4.6 Scotty states that the suspicions about him were based on the deficiencies of his predecessor but that he is 'not bad'.

Day/Night 5.1: In this posts he states that he finds Glorfindel's voting record suspicious (for reasons such a voting too early and also voting to late).
5.2: Muses over the NK of MP and why Sloonei wasn't a more probable target.

5.3: In this post, Scotty attempts to cast suspicion on Sloonei by alleging a relationship with Indiglo (if she's bad).
5.4: Questions Indiglo's drive by vote and votes for her
5.5: Posted his Day 5 reads here

5.6: In an earlier post (5.3, I think), Scotty states that "If indi is good, then that's a far bette rlooo for him" yet in this post however, he seems (to me) to be backing away from his previous opinion somewhat.
5.7: Alleges suspicion of Dom based on his voting record (particularly on MP).

{b]Day/Night 6.1[/b] Comes to the thread towards the EoD and questions Dom as to whether he is Wilgy's Mafia partner
6.2: Votes Dom
6.3: Votes DrWilgy.

In my view, I think this analysis suggests to me that Scotty is clearly suspicious and not simply for the performance of his predecessor. I think his indiscriminate criticism of my voting record looks suspicious on that basis alone and he seems to have some difficulty making a logical case against it (with good reason). I also find Sprityo's early interactions with Jay mildly suspicious as do I judge his continual sniping at one of my strongest Town reads all game (Sloonei). His reads appear to me to have been limited and (apart from Sloonei) without a lot of structured arguments to support them. Having just gone through all that, I'm prepared to place my vote on Scotty pending other developments.

[Glorfindel]

Glorfindel my friend I am going to keep spamming these questions until they are answered.

Glorfindel, I still need answers to these questions:

1. Are you bad?

2. Are you a member of a team that killed anyone in this group: MovingPictures07, MacDougall, motel room?

I'm going to adjust the first question.

1. Are you a member of the team in this Mafia game called the Skags?

Please still answer both.

My dear friend, I'm sorry - I hadn't seen these questions when you'd posted them originally but I saw that you had asked them earlier today. I am trying to work through all of the things that I've been asked and will answer your questions in due course. I trust that I can impose upon your patience for that?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Sure, go ahead and do the work you've set out to do. Please try to answer those two questions before you leave the thread for the day though. They don't require any research.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Glorfindel

[Glorfindel]

Glorfindel

I see you weren't content to wait for my reply, Jay

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm still ready for a reply. My vote isn't locked.

These questions are as simple as they get though.

[Scotty]

Rip motel room.

Nice post about my voting patterns, Glorf. Looks a lot like what I'd do if I were bad (and had time to do so).

I feel best about voting Glorf, even though he has a small train now. I wait to see who, if anyone, comes to his aid.

Glorf

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Any other general thoughts emerging from the EOD chaos and motel room's demise, Scotty?

[Scotty]

Any other general thoughts emerging from the EOD chaos and motel room's demise, Scotty?

That I made a huge mistake in Wilgy.
That my pick for baddies right now are Dom, Glorf and Sloon.

That Sloon is currently voting Glorf makes him look better. At first I thought maybe Wilgy (max) may have been in BTSC with Sloon, but I'm not so sure he would have voted Wilgy at all if that were the case.

I'm actually feeling pretty confident Wilgy didn't have BTSC with anyone alive.

[Scotty]

I don't suspect Epi right now due to my trust of predecessor, but I wouldn't put it past him to put his trust in LoRab, knowing she is good.

Is LoRab good? I dunno- I'd like to think so. Her biggest question mark of the game of course came from her vote for INH after we tempeorarily deduced he could be Silvertonghe.

I still believe INH to be Silvertongue.

I think dom is stirring shit this game, and I would as easily vote him over Glorf if votes piled there.

You're our best weapon right now in that the mafia are not killing you, so you're like Florida in the 2000 election

[Scotty]

Quin, your vote is currently worthless. I suggest moving it.

No it's not. I think Dom is bad. People should vote Dom.

Do you still?

Sorry if I made the wrong move, Wilgy. I dunno. One frustration is that every wagon I started today resulted in me wanting to lynch those people less. Either I've been duped by someone's emotions, or all three baddies are non-obvious people.

Based on this and your reaction to what I just stated, I'm willing to bet either you or INH is bad. Idk about both, but I'll bet one of you two is bad.

Look into this when I'm gone Sloonei and Dom, I trust you two together.

Why Wilgyyyy whyyyyyy Dom and Sloonei

Haven't even brushed my Quin look yet this game. That's odd

[Scotty]

Glorfindel my friend I am going to keep spamming these questions until they are answered.

Glorfindel, I still need answers to these questions:

1. Are you bad?

2. Are you a member of a team that killed anyone in this group: MovingPictures07, MacDougall, motel room?

I'm going to adjust the first question.

1. Are you a member of the team in this Mafia game called the Skags?

Please still answer both.

My dear friend, I'm sorry - I hadn't seen these questions when you'd posted them originally but I saw that you had asked them earlier today. I am trying to work through all of the things that I've been asked and will answer your questions in due course. I trust that I can impose upon your patience for that?

What even kind of answer is this?

It's like the judge asking the jury after a lengthy murder trial whether the defendant is guilty or not guilty and the foreman triumphantly responding, "I had a great breakfast today!"

I don't understand why someone as thoughtful and well spoken as Glorf (and he is) wouldn't be keen in answering a yes or no question but instead answer in an offhanded remark telling JJJ to take a number

[Sloonei]

Glorfindel my friend I am going to keep spamming these questions until they are answered.

Glorfindel, I still need answers to these questions:

1. Are you bad?

2. Are you a member of a team that killed anyone in this group: MovingPictures07, MacDougall, motel room?

I'm going to adjust the first question.

1. Are you a member of the team in this Mafia game called the Skags?

Please still answer both.

My dear friend, I'm sorry - I hadn't seen these questions when you'd posted them originally but I saw that you had asked them earlier today. I am trying to work through all of the things that I've been asked and will answer your questions in due course. I trust that I can impose upon your patience for that?

What even kind of answer is this?

It's like the judge asking the jury after a lengthy murder trial whether the defendant is guilty or not guilty and the foreman triumphantly responding, "I had a great breakfast today!"

I don't understand why someone as thoughtful and well spoken as Glorf (and he is) wouldn't be keen in answering a yes or no question but instead answer in an offhanded remark telling JJJ to take a number

I agree that that might Glorfindel's worst post in the game.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think the Llama Method is more likely to work with some players than others, and Glorfindel is one I would put in that category. That's why I have been pressing those questions. I'd agree that they've not been answered in a way that would indicate his innocence.

I'm still listening though Matty, so answer at will.

[Sloonei]

The reason I asked Glorfindel for his Scotty thoughts is because I felt like they both looked equally shaky around the deadline Day 6. Scotty made this post stating that he's considering voting for Glorf, but then a minute later changes his vote to DrWilgy instead. And I couldn't remember either of them (Scotty & Glorf) taking any sort of strong stance toward each other all game long.

To Scotty's credit, that has not exactly been the case since he subbed back in. He's had the following things to say about Glorfindel:

I don't like Glorfindel's voting record.
Day 1, early Mac vote. Disappears later and lets the wind of time dictate the lynch.
Day 2, no vote.
Day 3, he makes the second to last vote in the poll and votes for LoRab to tie the lynch. Motel room brings down the hammer on Elo. (Good look for MR)
Day 4, (which i just read) he says he broke the tie, but I can't tell. This one I'm not as bothered about, because he had expressed suspicion of INH prior to the vote. This EoD makes me twitch slightly because we DONT have a lynch and so it's hard to analyze if anyone was protecting someone with votes. I'd like to believe that Wilgy is still bad. But Glorf could be an accomplice.

I don't know Glorf's baddie game all that well. I could be looking for truffles in the wrong forest.

Dom: GOOD
DrWilgy: BAD
Epignosis 2.0: GOOD
Glorfindel: BAD
Indiglo: BAD
insertnamehere: GOOD
JaggedJimmyJay: GOOD
LoRab: GOOD
MacDougall: GOOD
motel room: GOOD
Quin: BAD
Sloonei: BAD


I feel like Glorf could go either way for me, and I'm still operating under the assumption that INH saved himself.
Quin is literally a gut read based on dribblings of post she he has made, and I have no evidence to think him bad besides that.

I like that it's something, but these both read as soft and waffling suspicions. "I don't know Glorf's baddie game all that well" & "I feel like Glorf could go either way", so I don't think this is particularly inspiring, but I can't accuse him of totally avoiding saying anything about Glorfindel.

Glorf, on the other hand, had said absolutely nothing about Scotty/sprityo that I can see prior to that big post today. I'll have to take a closer look at it, but my cursory glance wasn't too favorable.

[Sloonei]

unfairly snipping all of glorf's investigative work to get to the conclusion

In my view, I think this analysis suggests to me that Scotty is clearly suspicious and not simply for the performance of his predecessor. I think his indiscriminate criticism of my voting record looks suspicious on that basis alone and he seems to have some difficulty making a logical case against it (with good reason). I also find Sprityo's early interactions with Jay mildly suspicious as do I judge his continual sniping at one of my strongest Town reads all game (Sloonei). His reads appear to me to have been limited and (apart from Sloonei) without a lot of structured arguments to support them. Having just gone through all that, I'm prepared to place my vote on Scotty pending other developments.

Hey Scotty, care to address any of these points at all? You gave a sarcastic quip earlier, but I don't get that as a substantive response.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If nothing else, that they've both shown themselves to be content to drop their votes on one another without much discussion suggests to me that at least one of them is just playing the numbers (survivalism). Could be both.

[Sloonei]

If nothing else, that they've both shown themselves to be content to drop their votes on one another without much discussion suggests to me that at least one of them is just playing the numbers (survivalism). Could be both.

Indeed. Glorfindel's post felt to me like there was a foregone conclusion that Scotty was coming out as a suspect. I appreciate the work he put into it, but his response seemed geared toward coming out with Scotty as a suspect, rather than trying to make an honest assessment. I'm not sure I can validate that claim though.

[Quin]

Quin, your vote is currently worthless. I suggest moving it.

No it's not. I think Dom is bad. People should vote Dom.

Do you still?

Sorry if I made the wrong move, Wilgy. I dunno. One frustration is that every wagon I started today resulted in me wanting to lynch those people less. Either I've been duped by someone's emotions, or all three baddies are non-obvious people.

Based on this and your reaction to what I just stated, I'm willing to bet either you or INH is bad. Idk about both, but I'll bet one of you two is bad.

Look into this when I'm gone Sloonei and Dom, I trust you two together.

Why Wilgyyyy whyyyyyy Dom and Sloonei

Haven't even brushed my Quin look yet this game. That's odd

Yes. His refusal to answer questions properly and how he lashes out when pressed about them does not make sense from a town mindset.

[Sloonei]

I think Dom looked alright at the end of the day yesterday, if that is what you're referencing, Quin. It makes sense if we assume that he believed you and me to be bad. To him it looked like we were the ones deliberately avoiding answering his questions, when it reality I think it was just a series of miscommunications going back and forth between him and us. I think it would be beneficial if we could work through the problems he had, and the problems we had, in a more level-headed manner today. There wasn't really time to stop and catch our collective breath when it was all happening the other day.

[Quin]

I think Dom looked alright at the end of the day yesterday, if that is what you're referencing, Quin. It makes sense if we assume that he believed you and me to be bad. To him it looked like we were the ones deliberately avoiding answering his questions, when it reality I think it was just a series of miscommunications going back and forth between him and us. I think it would be beneficial if we could work through the problems he had, and the problems we had, in a more level-headed manner today. There wasn't really time to stop and catch our collective breath when it was all happening the other day.

I'd like to talk through his case with me properly, which is why I waited for him to put everything on the table. He has not. What I'm referring to in the 'refusal to answer questions properly' thing extends beyond just his interaction with you and me.

[Sloonei]

His blunt one-line responses to most questions earlier in the game were definitely something that caught my attention.

[Scotty]

unfairly snipping all of glorf's investigative work to get to the conclusion

In my view, I think this analysis suggests to me that Scotty is clearly suspicious and not simply for the performance of his predecessor. I think his indiscriminate criticism of my voting record looks suspicious on that basis alone and he seems to have some difficulty making a logical case against it (with good reason). I also find Sprityo's early interactions with Jay mildly suspicious as do I judge his continual sniping at one of my strongest Town reads all game (Sloonei). His reads appear to me to have been limited and (apart from Sloonei) without a lot of structured arguments to support them. Having just gone through all that, I'm prepared to place my vote on Scotty pending other developments.

Hey Scotty, care to address any of these points at all? You gave a sarcastic quip earlier, but I don't get that as a substantive response.

Ok.

I don't know what to respond to. My criticism of his voting record looks suspicious? Hummm says the guy who just analyzed and criticized both my and sprityo's voting record.

My "continual sniping" at Sloonei is because I don't necessarily want to rule him out as bad. Why does Glorf place Sloon as one of his highest town reads?

My reads hve been limited, and that I won't deny. That's my jumping in and not necesssriy reading through most of day 2 and 3. I've been going on guy without making verbose arguments. That's just how I'm playing this as a replacement. If that's suspicious alone, then I apologize.


And @Sloonei regarding placing my vote on Dom and Wilgy instead of Glorf, i chose poorly. I didn't necessarily trust a train that was already formed on Glorf and was looking at more than one option.

[Sloonei]

Thanks Scotty!

Glorfindel, got any response to what Scotty said?

[Sloonei]

I'm stumped, like I've said. I have no problem admitting that.

Let's establish some trust then! What is your hangup with me?

At times you have been more hard-headed in your suspicions than you usually are. I'd say in recent memory you've become a more aggressive player than you used to be, but this game represents another shift further in that direction. There have been moments where I have wondered whether your motivation is really learning about players as much as dictating to players.

I meant to respond to this last night.
I agree with this assessment of my play earlier in the game and I don't have a good answer for it. I became aware of it and have been trying to reign it in since my INH crusade. I think I may have just been pressing more because I've been shorter on time than I'm used to and wanted to make things happen as much as I could. I don't like the way I played days 1-3.

[Sloonei]

At the moment Quin would probably be my least favorite lynch. If anyone thinks he's bad though I'm all ears.

Sloonei, which of the following realities do you think is most likely:

1. Scotty and Glorfindel are both bad

2. Neither Scotty nor Glorfindel are bad

Actually anyone can answer that.

I didn't even see this until just now. I think 1 is more likely and it was my working theory entering today. Of the two, I am more suspicious of Glorfindel right now. But I can see a scenario where they're both scum and both recognize the need to throw each other under the bus today. But I don't want to leap to that conclusion.

[Quin]

I think Dom looked alright at the end of the day yesterday, if that is what you're referencing, Quin. It makes sense if we assume that he believed you and me to be bad. To him it looked like we were the ones deliberately avoiding answering his questions, when it reality I think it was just a series of miscommunications going back and forth between him and us. I think it would be beneficial if we could work through the problems he had, and the problems we had, in a more level-headed manner today. There wasn't really time to stop and catch our collective breath when it was all happening the other day.

I'd like to talk through his case with me properly, which is why I waited for him to put everything on the table. He has not. What I'm referring to in the 'refusal to answer questions properly' thing extends beyond just his interaction with you and me.

I was going to pull posts to demonstrate this and I noticed another trend. When people ask him questions he often gives answers that are insufficient and then lashes out with suspicion when pressed for a more elaborate answer. When he asks questions and is given an answer he doesn't like he lashes out as well, regardless of how elaborate the answers are. The latter is much more prominent in his posts, but I'll post them both shortly.

[Glorfindel]

Thanks Scotty!

Glorfindel, got any response to what Scotty said?

My friend, I've believed in you all game and I still feel that you are our best hope here. I reviewed Sprityo/Scotty 2.0 in depth in an attempt to give you the most objective and informed response I could. I think the verdict is quite clear, and I assume I was sufficiently clear in the conclusion that I posted. In return, I've seen little more than the most thinly veiled OMGUS as his response. To my knowledge, he's been unable to put forward anything that looks remotely like a case against me other than declaring me 'Bad' in his GTH reads. I just read that he has resorted to inferring that my posts are 'verbose'. REALLY? If by that he means that I am committed to posting constructively so this will turn out right, then damn straight I'll put my hand up for that.

[Scotty]

Thanks Scotty!

Glorfindel, got any response to what Scotty said?

My friend, I've believed in you all game and I still feel that you are our best hope here. I reviewed Sprityo/Scotty 2.0 in depth in an attempt to give you the most objective and informed response I could. I think the verdict is quite clear, and I assume I was sufficiently clear in the conclusion that I posted. In return, I've seen little more than the most thinly veiled OMGUS as his response. To my knowledge, he's been unable to put forward anything that looks remotely like a case against me other than declaring me 'Bad' in his GTH reads. I just read that he has resorted to inferring that my posts are 'verbose'. REALLY? If by that he means that I am committed to posting constructively so this will turn out right, then damn straight I'll put my hand up for that.

What is your opinion of Dom, Glorf?

And at what point is JJJ's pointed questions of "Are you bad?" are you looking to answer on your long list of things to get back to?

[Quin]

Here's that ISO Dom was itching for. Every occurrence of one of the two codes I mentioned earlier in his posts:

Spoiler: show

Zebra is Mafia without doubt. 100% absolute bonafide guaranteed lock it down impossible to deny. Buddied me and was friendly when I was in agreeance, I make ONE post pointing out that I feel she is Mafia and now magically I am dark orange. Pfffft hide your colours better.

Face something substantial about her that isn't a BZZZ or face destruction.

Dom once again sits out the lynch.

Hi there.
Excuse me?

You parked your vote on MP early on. Again.

Explain to me how that's sitting out.
I voted someone who I believed was baddie. I made multiple posts trying to convince others to vote with me.

I find curious that Dom hasn't responded to any of my posts that mention him...

You mean where you said I am more paranoid as a baddie? Ok. Cool. Where am I paranoid? Because I made a case against MP because I believed (and kind of still do, but see the limits of the reality here) that he was buddying me? How is that paranoid?

Or are you talking about this:

My other suspicions are more amorphous: the low posters because they don't give us anything to go on. I keep getting pings from Dom, but he has also said things that feel civ to me--but he's on my list of considerations.

Which is so unsubstantial I don't even know how you'd like me to respond.

This post is a shitstorm. You do the following things in it:
1) Make no direct accusation. Let others do that for you.
2) Imply malintent on my part by using relatively *neutral* words like curious, but pairing it with an ellipses.
3) Not even have anything really to respond to.

I more meant the first one, but that you didn't acknowledge either post was what struck me. And not so much about when you are more paranoid, but that you were/are being paranoid here. It is partly the buttering up thing. It also your general tone in responding to others. But also.... Can you state where MP was buttering you up?

And the purpose of my post where I mention you (which included many things other than you) wasn't meant to make a case against you, merely to explain why you are on my radar at all. Mainly because I was asked directly. If you read it as a whole, you'll probably even see that you're not the highest of my suspicions.

The purpose of the post where I say you haven't responded was simply to say that you hadn't responded. Not to make a direct accusation based on it, but to note it. And to get you to respond.

I always use words like curious. And as I have said about you, I'm really not sure. So neutral words are exactly that. I do find it odd that you didn't acknowledge my posts at all. I was not implying malintent.

It your tone of response demonstrates the paranoia mentioned earlier.

How? What am I paranoid about?
This is an empty accusation.

@jjj: to answer your query about your first point, I agree. I also think it makes it highly unlikely that Elo had BTSC with glorf. Or Quin for that matter.

Do you feel there's anything to be said from that about indiglo, the other replacement?

Can you spell out what you mean here?

I will add this - I love being lynched as a civ. Not because I like to lose, or because I want my team to lose. But because I love being right. But here's the dig - when I get lynched as a civ, the baddies are happy, and the civs who were wrong will still feel justified and say "well, she should have acted like a civ" and no one learns anything from the whole situation. But I am not a robot with pre-programmed responses as to how to "act like a civ" according to someone else. What I am is ass crack exhausted, I wanted to get my feet under me in this game to actually play it. That didn't happen. So now I'm in between a rock and a hard place. I'm too tired to fight to get out, and I'm too annoyed to care to push through the exhaustion and try.

T F is this paragraph?

I didn't expect INH to sweep the baddie reads. That's interesting. He has fallen from grace more than perhaps anyone else.

That's because he's bad.

Anyone think LoRab would have tried to kill me after I called her one of my top two town reads?

I don't know if LoRab WOULD have done it, but I wouldn't rule her out.


Nice post, G!


Mac-- justify your position on me. You criticize JJJ for turning on you so quick, but I've yet to see a reason why you turned on me the same amount.

Spoiler: show

Dom, who else is on your radar other than indi and INH at this time?

Also, what was it specifically that caused you to re-examine your read of me; was it just the Elo flip specifically or something else? Is there anything else you want me to talk about?

LoRab.

I'd also like Mac to answer to my question to him.

*Side note, he didn't even answer the full question here.

Spoiler: show

LoRab, what am I paranoid about?

Spoiler: show

Dom's taking a very minimalist approach to this game.

Not that this is a bad thing-- but I'm just curious why you think this.

You must be aware to some extent that your approach this game is narrower in focus than average. What happened to your suspicion of MP?

I wouldn't say that.
And I've addressed that. I don't think it is likely MP and Eloh were teammates.

Possible? Yes. Likely? No.

Dom's taking a very minimalist approach to this game.

Not that this is a bad thing-- but I'm just curious why you think this.

Your posts are short.

Are my posts known for being long?

LoRab, what am I paranoid about?

I answered this in a prior post, but your claim that MP buddied you I don't think was ever substantiated and his putting you on a rainbow list didn't suffice for me. Also, your tone in responding to questions asked of you and mentions of things that have been noticed are of a tone that seems overly defensive, in a paranoid sort of way.

Why am I your number 3 bad read? Because, again, you have not said a single thing about why you find me suspicious.

#1) So... what am I paranoid about? What am I afraid of? What am I worried about? You didn't answer that question.
#2) He... buddied me? He suddenly agreed with me and gave me a civ read with zero reasoning?
#3) I absolutely gave reasons. Your suspicion of me is hollow, has no substance, and has no internal logic. You smeared me, attempted to get others to make the case for you. I outlined this earlier.


@Mac
Anytime you want to tell me, Mac, why I dropped so low on your reads when you suspect Zebra for the exact same thing is a good thing!

1. You are paranoid about people suspecting you. You are worried about others being suspicious of you. I have said that several times in different ways.

2. I do not think he buddied you, but it's possible I read his posts differently than you. Can you give examples of specific posts in which you perceive him to have buddied you?

3. No, you did not give reasons. Unless your entire case is that I suspect you. Which, is really not a case. Yes, I suspect you--I have given reasons and have explained those reasons. That you don't get them does not mean that there is no internal logic. Also, that I suspect you, even if I am wrong, does not mean that I'm bad--at all. I think you are overstating the posts I've made about you--and every post you make like this, accusing me of smearing you and having a false case, make you seem increasingly suspicious.

And where did I try to get others to make a case for me?

And I apologize if I read as defenses what you apparently meant as accusations.

Your entire suspicion of me seems to be based on the fact that I vaguely suspect you. Am I wrong in that assessment?

Because that's kind of the actual definition of a switcheroo.

1) Citation Needed. Also contradictory. First I ignored your post, then I am too paranoid about your post. Pick one.
2) My only interaction in the entire game with him was "you're bad" and he listed me as his #2 civvie with zero explanation. What else would you like to know? He was overly kind to my suspicion. He avoided taking any issue with it. He lacked a coherent voice in the thread-- he has since adopted a more serious one. He said that I contributed more to Romance of Three Kingdoms than any other player-- a straight falsehood. suddenly I became a manipulator to him, but that was never mentioned again. My case against MP is well documented and before the Eloh flip, I was ready to vote for him today too. HOWEVER, in my read through of this, I found a post I find... intriuging. Stay tuned.
3) Yes. I did.

My suspicion of you is based on the fact that you have zero internal logic in your suspicion of me.

Spoiler: show

Let's talk about the two people who got 5 Bads and 0 Goods.

Indiglo replaced sprit? I keep losing track.

1. First, you ignored my posts. When you finally responded, your responses, all of them, have been overly defensive to the point of being paranoid about suspicion. Since when is low level suspicion bad?

2. I don't see how reading someone as civ is buttering up. Perhaps we have different meanings of the phrase.

3. So, like I said, you suspect me literally because I suspect you. And you don't seem to get the basis of my suspicion, which is mainly tone. The earlier post I read as defense, not accusation. To me, saying: you are totally wrong and this is a bad case is not at all an accusastion. I guess you meant it as such. That's totally not how I read it. In my mind, civs are wrong all the time and think through things in ways that are mysterious to me and seem out there--that doesn't mean they are bad--just wrong. Nowhere did you say that you thought I was fabricating a false case against you which made you think I was bad. So I didn't see any accusation in your post. As you at least claim was there.

I look forward to the intriguiging post.

So am I paranoid or ignoring posts? Those are not compatible.

What are all our thoughts on Dom?

I still think he looks town. I don't really think his attacks on MP appear manipulative. I see a person who is perceiving a strong parallel to RoTTK and is pursuing that angle diligently. The worst I could say is that he had a quiet Day 2. That's not a big issue to me. I'm not a fan of his isolated vote either I guess. Some people do that.

Why do you think they don't appear manipulative? It's becoming increasingly difficult for me to judge this fairly, I feel, given that I am the continued target of his accusations and I don't feel like he is even giving me a chance.

MP-- this is the post I linked to.
"Why do you think they don't appear manipulative?" is a straight implication that I am being manipulative.

What do you mean uninspiring as a vote? I could interpret that two different ways.

But I think my answer is uninspiring as a civ. Her behavior didn't inspire any reaction from me to believe she had any remotely town mindset. Does that answer your question?

That does.

Spoiler: show

This was my answer to your question, Dom. Please point out the parts of it which you object to:

Sloonei who are you going to vote for?

if they die who are you going to vote for?

if they die who are you going to vote for?


Quinn: Citation needed that Mac didn't like me.

I am currently voting for Glorfindel until further notice. I am also considering everyone else.

This doesn't answer the question in any way that is useful. AGain, why is Epi fully responsible for knowing who he's voting for the second his top suspect dies but you are not?

Spoiler: show

Dom:

Prior to Day 6, you made no conclusive (or even inconclusive) read on Sloonei that I can find. You interacted with him a few times, but you never stated a read.

Now you've joined Epignosis immediately on this day with a vote based upon what looks to me like something frivolous. Why?

Why are you pretending like I haven't explained this?

Sloonei STILL hasn't answered my question.

Gth explanation and reasoning.

Dom - bad - I have no memory of any posts or opinions from Dom and this doesn't sit right with me. Be it my inability to notice or him sitting back and to playing much, I wouldn't know.
.

this sounds like a you problem and not a me problem.

Who out there objects to a Dom lynch?

Me.

This was my answer to your question, Dom. Please point out the parts of it which you object to:

Sloonei who are you going to vote for?

if they die who are you going to vote for?

if they die who are you going to vote for?


Quinn: Citation needed that Mac didn't like me.

I am currently voting for Glorfindel until further notice. I am also considering everyone else.

This doesn't answer the question in any way that is useful. AGain, why is Epi fully responsible for knowing who he's voting for the second his top suspect dies but you are not?

He's not and I never said he was.

Will you answer my damn question or nah?

Spoiler: show

Why are you pretending like I haven't explained this?

I have no reason to "pretend" anything. Are you accusing me of something?

No, AND I don't intend to, however, I have spelled this out multiple times.

Spoiler: show

Why are you pretending like I haven't explained this?

I have no reason to "pretend" anything. Are you accusing me of something?

No, AND I don't intend to, however, I have spelled this out multiple times.

I'm telling you that your multiple times have left me feeling that your beef with Sloonei is frivolous. That's currently your best motive for a vote as of this sixth day phase of play after having spent the entire game previous apparently empty of opinions related to Sloonei?

My top suspect died.

Dom, I honestly have no idea what question you want me to answer. I answered your question of who I'd vote for. Then I voted for two other people. I've made a lot of posts sharing all of my thoughts on everyone in this game today. Look at them.

Your answer was "anyone else"
That's not an answer.

Suddenly I'm looking at Dom's posts and seeing baddie everywhere.

~ Attacks MP from the first moment of the game and almost never lets up
~ "MP is buddying up to me because he listed me as one of his 7 greens"
~ Unexplained off-hand defenses of Elohcin
~ Three off-wagon votes in a row in the first three day phases

LOL ok

Spoiler: show

Dom, I made this post primarily for you. Have you looked at it yet?

Spoiler: show

And I also need to address the idea that my "Who are you gonna vote for?" question was some sort of far-fetched framing scheme of mine. Here's the original post, right at the start of Day 6:

Epi, who you gonna vote for now that Mr Mac is dead?

Quin, who's your supposed 3 person scum team?

Note the second question addressed to Quin. This is just a light conversation-starter type of post. I'm just peppering the two players I can see in the thread with standard mafia questions. These are really the same question: "Who are your suspects?" But, as I am a player who asks a ton of questions in this game, I get bored of typing the same words over and over and over and over again, so sometimes I like to spice it up! I throw whole new, colorful sets of words at people! One way that I like to do this is to ask people "Who they're voting for" instead "who they suspect". Don't believe me? Here's some more examples from this game:

Who are you gonna vote for, Mr Quin?

link

righty-o

who you gonna vote for, champ?

link

Who do you want to vote for, mac?

link (admittedly the context is a little different on this one)

Who you gonna vote for, Dom?

link

You didn't ask any of those immediately after their top suspect died.

So what? I am genuinely lost. I don't want to distract from everything else that's going on, but if you could, can you lay out your case against me? I know you feel like it's obvious, but maybe I'm just dense. I genuinely have no idea what is going on in your head with regards to me right now.

I think you tried to set Epi up for an easy lynch.
Epi and I lay out arguments against Mac. Epi was more vocal.
Mac is night killed.
Minutes later you come in, "HEY EPI WHO YA VOTING FOR NOW HUH HUH HUH?!"
It reeks. You evaded my questioning on the matter and you then contradicted yourself in your answers. "Glorfindel 'til I die" you say? Or change your vote like 4 times. You have zero principle and seem only interested in lynching someone, not a baddie.

Spoiler: show

I do not understand why Dom is connecting open-mindedness with lack of scum hunting.

Because he is literally contradicting himself?!?!?!


No one is listening to me at all. If you're really interested in hearing me out, you'd read my damn posts and NOT suddenly decide it's lynch Dom day and ignore half the things I've said. How many people keep saying they're going to "give me a read"? I've yet to see one ISO.

Please show me the contradiction.

1) you never answered my question
2) you did not vote for Glorfindel

I do not understand why Dom is connecting open-mindedness with lack of scum hunting.

Because he is literally contradicting himself?!?!?!

Citation needed.

^


This is all so blatantly coordinated.

Spoiler: show

Note: Quinn never did the promised ISO on me.


Quin and Sloonei are bad. This is so clearly a coordinated attack on me right now.

Spoiler: show

Note: Quinn never did the promised ISO on me.


Quin and Sloonei are bad. This is so clearly a coordinated attack on me right now.

I read your posts. They directed me to LoRab. I apologise if my efforts don't meet your expectations.

Bullshit.
You read my posts, decline a read on me, provided one on LoRab, stated your read on me only after JJJ brought me up seriously.

You are so transparent.

I do not understand why Dom is connecting open-mindedness with lack of scum hunting.

Because he is literally contradicting himself?!?!?!


No one is listening to me at all. If you're really interested in hearing me out, you'd read my damn posts and NOT suddenly decide it's lynch Dom day and ignore half the things I've said. How many people keep saying they're going to "give me a read"? I've yet to see one ISO.

Please show me the contradiction.

1) you never answered my question
2) you did not vote for Glorfindel

I do not understand why Dom is connecting open-mindedness with lack of scum hunting.

Because he is literally contradicting himself?!?!?!

Citation needed.

^


This is all so blatantly coordinated.

What? Answer the damn question. This is becoming absurd.

I did. I just did.
Are you kidding me?


YOU HAVE YET TO ANSWER MY QUESTION.
I AM DONE DEALING WITH THIS FREAKING ABSURDITY.

I voted for Dom. I would like him to talk about his case against me.

[Quin]

My neck hurts and I need to study. Ideally I'd be a studious academic and study properly for my exam and as a result, my activity here would drop, but if you know me at all, well.

[Quin]

Quin, your vote is currently worthless. I suggest moving it.

No it's not. I think Dom is bad. People should vote Dom.

Do you still?

Sorry if I made the wrong move, Wilgy. I dunno. One frustration is that every wagon I started today resulted in me wanting to lynch those people less. Either I've been duped by someone's emotions, or all three baddies are non-obvious people.

Based on this and your reaction to what I just stated, I'm willing to bet either you or INH is bad. Idk about both, but I'll bet one of you two is bad.

Look into this when I'm gone Sloonei and Dom, I trust you two together.

Why Wilgyyyy whyyyyyy Dom and Sloonei

Haven't even brushed my Quin look yet this game. That's odd

What does this mean Scotty?

[Glorfindel]

Glorfindel my friend I am going to keep spamming these questions until they are answered.

Glorfindel, I still need answers to these questions:

1. Are you bad?

2. Are you a member of a team that killed anyone in this group: MovingPictures07, MacDougall, motel room?

I'm going to adjust the first question.

1. Are you a member of the team in this Mafia game called the Skags?

Please still answer both.

My dear friend, I'm sorry - I hadn't seen these questions when you'd posted them originally but I saw that you had asked them earlier today. I am trying to work through all of the things that I've been asked and will answer your questions in due course. I trust that I can impose upon your patience for that?

What even kind of answer is this?

It's like the judge asking the jury after a lengthy murder trial whether the defendant is guilty or not guilty and the foreman triumphantly responding, "I had a great breakfast today!"

I don't understand why someone as thoughtful and well spoken as Glorf (and he is) wouldn't be keen in answering a yes or no question but instead answer in an offhanded remark telling JJJ to take a number

Firstly, I'd like to address this. In my view, only someone who was trying to spin my guilt would've interpreted my response to Jay in the way that you did just there. I most certainly did not respond to Jay in that tone and you are being disingenuous to accuse me of having done so.

[Glorfindel]

Thanks Scotty!

Glorfindel, got any response to what Scotty said?

My friend, I've believed in you all game and I still feel that you are our best hope here. I reviewed Sprityo/Scotty 2.0 in depth in an attempt to give you the most objective and informed response I could. I think the verdict is quite clear, and I assume I was sufficiently clear in the conclusion that I posted. In return, I've seen little more than the most thinly veiled OMGUS as his response. To my knowledge, he's been unable to put forward anything that looks remotely like a case against me other than declaring me 'Bad' in his GTH reads. I just read that he has resorted to inferring that my posts are 'verbose'. REALLY? If by that he means that I am committed to posting constructively so this will turn out right, then damn straight I'll put my hand up for that.

What is your opinion of Dom, Glorf?

And at what point is JJJ's pointed questions of "Are you bad?" are you looking to answer on your long list of things to get back to?

I will happily review my opinion of Dom and get back to you, my friend (I'm not given to throwing out glib opinions on others as is the case of some others in this game).

You obviously missed this post from Jay (only a few hours ago):

I think the Llama Method is more likely to work with some players than others, and Glorfindel is one I would put in that category. That's why I have been pressing those questions. I'd agree that they've not been answered in a way that would indicate his innocence.

I'm still listening though Matty, so answer at will.

And so I shall. I have no idea what he is referring to in his reference to 'the Llama method' but it's probably not that important in this context. You seem uncommonly keen for me to answer those questions all of a sudden...

[Dom]

Quin, your vote is currently worthless. I suggest moving it.

No it's not. I think Dom is bad. People should vote Dom.

Do you still?

Sorry if I made the wrong move, Wilgy. I dunno. One frustration is that every wagon I started today resulted in me wanting to lynch those people less. Either I've been duped by someone's emotions, or all three baddies are non-obvious people.

Based on this and your reaction to what I just stated, I'm willing to bet either you or INH is bad. Idk about both, but I'll bet one of you two is bad.

Look into this when I'm gone Sloonei and Dom, I trust you two together.

Why Wilgyyyy whyyyyyy Dom and Sloonei

Haven't even brushed my Quin look yet this game. That's odd

Yes. His refusal to answer questions properly and how he lashes out when pressed about them does not make sense from a town mindset.

Your continuous lying does not make sense from a town mindset.

I think Dom looked alright at the end of the day yesterday, if that is what you're referencing, Quin. It makes sense if we assume that he believed you and me to be bad. To him it looked like we were the ones deliberately avoiding answering his questions, when it reality I think it was just a series of miscommunications going back and forth between him and us. I think it would be beneficial if we could work through the problems he had, and the problems we had, in a more level-headed manner today. There wasn't really time to stop and catch our collective breath when it was all happening the other day.

I'd like to talk through his case with me properly, which is why I waited for him to put everything on the table. He has not. What I'm referring to in the 'refusal to answer questions properly' thing extends beyond just his interaction with you and me.

....I don't see how I refused to answer questions properly. You continuously refuse to look at things from my perspective. I saw two players ignoring my questions, lying about me and what others have said about me ganging up on me. Without the heat of the moment from the last day phase, you're down on my sus list. But your pushing this doesn't paint a pretty picture because your accusations are patently false.

unfairly snipping all of glorf's investigative work to get to the conclusion

In my view, I think this analysis suggests to me that Scotty is clearly suspicious and not simply for the performance of his predecessor. I think his indiscriminate criticism of my voting record looks suspicious on that basis alone and he seems to have some difficulty making a logical case against it (with good reason). I also find Sprityo's early interactions with Jay mildly suspicious as do I judge his continual sniping at one of my strongest Town reads all game (Sloonei). His reads appear to me to have been limited and (apart from Sloonei) without a lot of structured arguments to support them. Having just gone through all that, I'm prepared to place my vote on Scotty pending other developments.

Hey Scotty, care to address any of these points at all? You gave a sarcastic quip earlier, but I don't get that as a substantive response.

Ok.

I don't know what to respond to. My criticism of his voting record looks suspicious? Hummm says the guy who just analyzed and criticized both my and sprityo's voting record.

My "continual sniping" at Sloonei is because I don't necessarily want to rule him out as bad. Why does Glorf place Sloon as one of his highest town reads?

My reads hve been limited, and that I won't deny. That's my jumping in and not necesssriy reading through most of day 2 and 3. I've been going on guy without making verbose arguments. That's just how I'm playing this as a replacement. If that's suspicious alone, then I apologize.


And @Sloonei regarding placing my vote on Dom and Wilgy instead of Glorf, i chose poorly. I didn't necessarily trust a train that was already formed on Glorf and was looking at more than one option.

OK so... scotty-- voitng me would have absolutely been a poor deciison... but....
how do you know that?
(because you're bad)

Here's that ISO Dom was itching for. Every occurrence of one of the two codes I mentioned earlier in his posts:
<<SNIP FOR BREVITY>>

I voted for Dom. I would like him to talk about his case against me.

I don't really think the LoRab case is comparable in any fashion.

[Epignosis]

Grades are in. I should be able to devote a little more time to this, especially with the weekend approaching.

[Dom]

Grades are in. I should be able to devote a little more time to this, especially with the weekend approaching.

Were yours due today too?

[Epignosis]

Grades are in. I should be able to devote a little more time to this, especially with the weekend approaching.

Were yours due today too?

Yes. I hate the end of a grading period. Students who do dick the whole time expect you to give them everything they are missing the last week of the grading period, and I give it to them, because I've gotten flak for failing too many kids.

[Dom]

Grades are in. I should be able to devote a little more time to this, especially with the weekend approaching.

Were yours due today too?

Yes. I hate the end of a grading period. Students who do dick the whole time expect you to give them everything they are missing the last week of the grading period, and I give it to them, because I've gotten flak for failing too many kids.

I feel ya.

[Epignosis]

I still think Lorab is good. That's who I am most confident is a civilian.

3J.

Does this mean you have your doubts about clearing 3J and INH?

No. It means I'm busting his balls some.

I'll move my vote eventually.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I can't stand when a 10 minute nap accidentally turns into a 4 hour nap.

One thing giving me problems with the Dom/Quin discussion is the repeated usage of the word LYING LIED LIAR etc... I almost always read that as being a willful refusal to use other less accusatory words like "misinterpreted" or "overlooked" or "didn't understand me". On that front it's probably more Dom doing that than Quin.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

To be fair, Wilgy kind of kid the same thing so I'll keep listening. Maybe a calmer dialogue would be easier to follow.

[Dom]

I can't stand when a 10 minute nap accidentally turns into a 4 hour nap.

One thing giving me problems with the Dom/Quin discussion is the repeated usage of the word LYING LIED LIAR etc... I almost always read that as being a willful refusal to use other less accusatory words like "misinterpreted" or "overlooked" or "didn't understand me". On that front it's probably more Dom doing that than Quin.

Quin lied about me tho

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Quin lied about me tho

Is there no possible reality apart from "Quin deliberately promoted falsehoods about me"?

[Dom]

Quin lied about me tho

Is there no possible reality apart from "Quin deliberately promoted falsehoods about me"?

i think he could have just not researched it at all bc he thought it'd be an easy lynch

[Epignosis]

Thanks Scotty!

Glorfindel, got any response to what Scotty said?

My friend, I've believed in you all game and I still feel that you are our best hope here. I reviewed Sprityo/Scotty 2.0 in depth in an attempt to give you the most objective and informed response I could. I think the verdict is quite clear, and I assume I was sufficiently clear in the conclusion that I posted. In return, I've seen little more than the most thinly veiled OMGUS as his response. To my knowledge, he's been unable to put forward anything that looks remotely like a case against me other than declaring me 'Bad' in his GTH reads. I just read that he has resorted to inferring that my posts are 'verbose'. REALLY? If by that he means that I am committed to posting constructively so this will turn out right, then damn straight I'll put my hand up for that.

What is your opinion of Dom, Glorf?

And at what point is JJJ's pointed questions of "Are you bad?" are you looking to answer on your long list of things to get back to?

I will happily review my opinion of Dom and get back to you, my friend (I'm not given to throwing out glib opinions on others as is the case of some others in this game).

You obviously missed this post from Jay (only a few hours ago):

I think the Llama Method is more likely to work with some players than others, and Glorfindel is one I would put in that category. That's why I have been pressing those questions. I'd agree that they've not been answered in a way that would indicate his innocence.

I'm still listening though Matty, so answer at will.

And so I shall. I have no idea what he is referring to in his reference to 'the Llama method' but it's probably not that important in this context. You seem uncommonly keen for me to answer those questions all of a sudden...

Moved my vote.