GY!BE Mafia [E.N.D.]

[Sloonei]

Hey Sloonei, talk to me about some things too when you get the chance! What's your strategy?

I've read about 1% of the thread so far. I've been either at work or asleep since this game started, but that's done now. I'll have things to say soonish.

There are 192 posts. You've written 10 of them. By my calculations, that means you haven't read 8 of your own posts so far.

I don't blame you though. I don't want to read my own posts either. I don't even know what I just typed.

I'm just hitting random keys and hoping I make sense.

[Golden]

Linki2: MP, ladies and gentlemen, making a rainbow on Day 0 :P

Coming to you soon, MP makes a rainbow list in the sign up thread

[Vompatti]

Sloonei confirmed for civilian.

[Tangrowth]

MP's Super Tentative Day 0 POE Rainbow - GY!BE Rainbow #1

birdwithteeth11
DrWilgy
insertnamehere
timmer

A Person
Boomslang
Dom
Epignosis
Golden
JaggedJimmyJay
LoRab
Metalmarsh89
nijuukyugou
Scotty
sig
Sloonei
triceratopzeuhl
Vompatti

As much as my gut is feeling things about Golden and JJJ, still not ready to pull the trigger there. They have a higher threshold to meet in order to earn my gut's trust.

If you're green, awesome, my gut likes you. Keep it up because your spot will be gone if you don't. My gut is a fickle bitch.

Everyone else I feel nothing about. Make me feel something, lest you incur my wrath and gain my d1 vote.

Yep, that's right, kids. No red, orange, or even yellow in this rainbow. No mafia reads, just town reads, that's the POE way.

[Tangrowth]

Also, just listened to the first host post. W T actual F. It is a rainy day in Asheville, no sun, and I am thoroughly creeped.

Linki: Casual glance at timmer reads authentic to me as well. The "also" and "also also" construction in his post is more casual than a baddie might use when discussing the finer points of strategy.

Linki2: MP, ladies and gentlemen, making a rainbow on Day 0 :P

I dig your specificity; no elaboration is required. I agree with it too, so that helps.

[Tangrowth]

Hey Sloonei, talk to me about some things too when you get the chance! What's your strategy?

I've read about 1% of the thread so far. I've been either at work or asleep since this game started, but that's done now. I'll have things to say soonish.

There are 192 posts. You've written 10 of them. By my calculations, that means you haven't read 8 of your own posts so far.

I don't blame you though. I don't want to read my own posts either. I don't even know what I just typed.

I'm just hitting random keys and hoping I make sense.

sgfiangliadjg[pkw[r0fkaWPFOJANMLVJ.ANOQ;OJM:djmlsignadligtqejtgfmpiedvnedpf9j134139tgj

[Tangrowth]

Linki2: MP, ladies and gentlemen, making a rainbow on Day 0 :P

Coming to you soon, MP makes a rainbow list in the sign up thread

LOL, I totally need to do this.

Alright, leaving again before I spam this thread into oblivion. Be back in a few hours probably.

[Golden]

Hey Sloonei, talk to me about some things too when you get the chance! What's your strategy?

I've read about 1% of the thread so far. I've been either at work or asleep since this game started, but that's done now. I'll have things to say soonish.

There are 192 posts. You've written 10 of them. By my calculations, that means you haven't read 8 of your own posts so far.

I don't blame you though. I don't want to read my own posts either. I don't even know what I just typed.

I'm just hitting random keys and hoping I make sense.

sgfiangliadjg[pkw[r0fkaWPFOJANMLVJ.ANOQ;OJM:djmlsignadligtqejtgfmpiedvnedpf9j134139tgj

Sloonei has a natural sixth sense about bringing order into random chaos that you lack.

Nice way to hit caps lock, though.

[Dom]

honestly how does anyone have a read yet

[triceratopzeuhl]

a 1 colour rainbow

[Sloonei]

Sloonei, are you bad?

at what?

[Sloonei]

Sloonei confirmed for civilian.

I thought so too.

[Ricochet]

The Flood

[Sloonei]

A collection of posts where Jay expresses things in uncertain/tentative language:

Spoiler: show

I think INH is right that a cooperative PoE effort in a game where townies must survive to win is inherently challenged, because in games like this town reads are generally harder to come by. However, the only reason that's true is that townies are more hesitant to put forth a visible, vocal effort for fear of standing out and becoming kill targets. That problem is resolved if every townie puts forth a visible, vocal effort.

Maybe that's a pipe dream, but I would encourage the townies out there to still make a concerted effort to play for the town win condition as much as their own survival. To focus too much on survival ensures that the baddies benefit maximally from these rules as I would theorize they typically do. I think it's the #1 reason town won games so infrequently on this site until recently (as that rule has appeared less often).

Rico, please don't interpret this as a complaint. It's just advice.

I am townreading that highlighted bit. That sentiment is constructed in a manner that bluntly stated his beef; at face value, I believe him. Further, I like his last paragraph, because as a member of the mafia he could have easily used this conversation to derail or antagonize as a way to manipulate the thread, but he left it alone.

In summary, INH noted my declaration to use POE, noted a fair criticism of its approach in this game, then after engaging with me a bit further on it, clearly stated his beef with it, that he will be using a different method, and was willing to leave it at that. I see no nefarious avenue for the way he approached this situation, only a fellow member of the town sincerely expressing his concerns and approach to the game.

It's not much, but I think already the strategy conversation at least generated a potentially useful read. What do you think?

I think INH completely misinterpreted/misrepresented my perspective (I won't even be using much PoE myself in this game, he assumed the contrary based on I don't know what). That happens in every game we play together though so shrug. We seem to have some core inability to understand one another that has never ceased.

I think his stance on the issue suits his meta, which is a decent enough look so early in the game that there's nothing better to say.

That's fair, but I think you're somewhat missing the point that I'm making. Don't you agree that there is potential for a mafia INH to have engaged in that conversation in a more antagonistic or opportunistic manner? I don't see the avenue for it based on the way he approached it.

I know it's weak, but I feel like this is significant given how early we are in the game, and I want opinions on this. Am I reading too much into this or am I onto something?

I'm not sure what kind of opportunity you'd expect to be capitalized on here in the event of a baddie INH. Is there something about a discussion of PoE that incites or invites antagonism? I think INH responded to the mention of PoE as I'd always expect him to respond to it -- with disdain. You're right that he didn't turn it into some kind of eruption of a dialogue, but I don't know that that was ever likely in the first place regardless of alignment. It's just generic strategy chatter.

He's on meta so far. That's worth something even if it's weak.

Actually MP, your post count has already jumped to an obscene place. I'm not sure I've seen it quite like this since you started Transistor with 57 posts before the second-highest poster made it to #8.

You over-eager cuz you bad, m8?

Furthermore, I could say that this was a bit of a softball, Jay, fabricated to seem as though you care about uncovering my alignment, but with no actual value in determining that or in generating useful conversation.

What would you say in response to that?

I would say that it probably is a softball, or perhaps it's better described as a poo fling. That's the nature of Day 0. I'm more conscious of the specific point I made than the average player because I was on your baddie team in Transistor. It came to mind so I puked it into the thread. You had 30 posts and I was in second place with I think 8. That's a significant disparity that recalled the even more significant disparity in that other game.

I didn't see disdain from inh. He seemed to be fine with others using it, pointed out that it had a particular weakness in this game, and made it clear he wouldn't be using it. That's all perfectly reasonable.

Yeah, this was part of my point; as a member of the mafia, if he in reality feels so strongly against POE, he could have easily derailed the entire thread by responding in a more emotionally manipulative manner. Instead, he popped in, noticed a potential hole in my strategy, expressed his beefs, and then was basically like 'OK, you do you, I'll do me'. I would expect that a mafia INH might have been more tempted to respond more outrageously, or at least draw out the conversation more. He seemed intent to express his piece and then end it.

I guess I don't agree with this assertion. I don't think "emotional manipulation" is a typical circumstance in strategic dialogue regardless of alignment. Sometimes it gets heated when people don't understand each other like it did in Red vs. Blue, but that's an exception and not the rule in my experience (and in that game everyone involved minus Epi was town).

It's probably a small point of dissent that appears larger in a lengthy discussion, because I don't have a baddie read on INH. The only read-relevant thing I have to say is that he's on meta, and that's still a positive thing even if only weakly so.

I've spent like ten minutes looking at timmer's posts because they make me feel something, I just couldn't decide what.

A) His curious exploration of PoE with MP reflects a genuine interest in a method he hasn't considered, and his decision to forego it for now develops naturally from his stated concerns. That'd be nice.

B) He took the opportunity to discuss strategic matters without really thinking about their merits for his own sake. It creates posts in his ISO and establishes a rapport with an active contributor. That'd be less than nice.

Having typed both out now I feel like A) is more reasonable. So that's nice for timmer.

[Golden]

Any conclusion, sloonei?

[Sloonei]

Any conclusion, sloonei?

He usually states his case with more confidence than that. It's unusual. It might be alignment indicative.

[Golden]

Any conclusion, sloonei?

He usually states his case with more confidence than that. It's unusual. It might be alignment indicative.

Do you recall any specific example of noticing this about JJ in the past?

[Sloonei]

Any conclusion, sloonei?

He usually states his case with more confidence than that. It's unusual. It might be alignment indicative.

Do you recall any specific example of noticing this about JJ in the past?

No. Not a single time. I've played a lot more games with him when he's town than scum.

[Golden]

I will admit that I think JJ suffers from the same affliction I do - that sometimes people who don't know him well perceive him as arrogant - and that this comes from projecting an air of firmness and certainty in opinions even when it is just an opinion.

I can't recall seeing a 'less sure' JJ, either, and I'd need more than 'this is different' to see it as bad.

Can anyone remember what games Jay was bad in? I have baby brain.

[Sloonei]

All the scum games I've played with him were on RYM, so they're lost to eternity/sharifi's lockbox.

[Tangrowth]

honestly how does anyone have a read yet

Are there any of my reads you don't understand, or are you just lamenting that it is too early in the game to have assessed any reads of your own?

[Tangrowth]

Jay was bad with me in Transistor. Check there. Off the top of my head though I don't recall any particular uncertain language from him there.

[Tangrowth]

A collection of posts where Jay expresses things in uncertain/tentative language:

Spoiler: show

I think INH is right that a cooperative PoE effort in a game where townies must survive to win is inherently challenged, because in games like this town reads are generally harder to come by. However, the only reason that's true is that townies are more hesitant to put forth a visible, vocal effort for fear of standing out and becoming kill targets. That problem is resolved if every townie puts forth a visible, vocal effort.

Maybe that's a pipe dream, but I would encourage the townies out there to still make a concerted effort to play for the town win condition as much as their own survival. To focus too much on survival ensures that the baddies benefit maximally from these rules as I would theorize they typically do. I think it's the #1 reason town won games so infrequently on this site until recently (as that rule has appeared less often).

Rico, please don't interpret this as a complaint. It's just advice.

I am townreading that highlighted bit. That sentiment is constructed in a manner that bluntly stated his beef; at face value, I believe him. Further, I like his last paragraph, because as a member of the mafia he could have easily used this conversation to derail or antagonize as a way to manipulate the thread, but he left it alone.

In summary, INH noted my declaration to use POE, noted a fair criticism of its approach in this game, then after engaging with me a bit further on it, clearly stated his beef with it, that he will be using a different method, and was willing to leave it at that. I see no nefarious avenue for the way he approached this situation, only a fellow member of the town sincerely expressing his concerns and approach to the game.

It's not much, but I think already the strategy conversation at least generated a potentially useful read. What do you think?

I think INH completely misinterpreted/misrepresented my perspective (I won't even be using much PoE myself in this game, he assumed the contrary based on I don't know what). That happens in every game we play together though so shrug. We seem to have some core inability to understand one another that has never ceased.

I think his stance on the issue suits his meta, which is a decent enough look so early in the game that there's nothing better to say.

That's fair, but I think you're somewhat missing the point that I'm making. Don't you agree that there is potential for a mafia INH to have engaged in that conversation in a more antagonistic or opportunistic manner? I don't see the avenue for it based on the way he approached it.

I know it's weak, but I feel like this is significant given how early we are in the game, and I want opinions on this. Am I reading too much into this or am I onto something?

I'm not sure what kind of opportunity you'd expect to be capitalized on here in the event of a baddie INH. Is there something about a discussion of PoE that incites or invites antagonism? I think INH responded to the mention of PoE as I'd always expect him to respond to it -- with disdain. You're right that he didn't turn it into some kind of eruption of a dialogue, but I don't know that that was ever likely in the first place regardless of alignment. It's just generic strategy chatter.

He's on meta so far. That's worth something even if it's weak.

Actually MP, your post count has already jumped to an obscene place. I'm not sure I've seen it quite like this since you started Transistor with 57 posts before the second-highest poster made it to #8.

You over-eager cuz you bad, m8?

Furthermore, I could say that this was a bit of a softball, Jay, fabricated to seem as though you care about uncovering my alignment, but with no actual value in determining that or in generating useful conversation.

What would you say in response to that?

I would say that it probably is a softball, or perhaps it's better described as a poo fling. That's the nature of Day 0. I'm more conscious of the specific point I made than the average player because I was on your baddie team in Transistor. It came to mind so I puked it into the thread. You had 30 posts and I was in second place with I think 8. That's a significant disparity that recalled the even more significant disparity in that other game.

I didn't see disdain from inh. He seemed to be fine with others using it, pointed out that it had a particular weakness in this game, and made it clear he wouldn't be using it. That's all perfectly reasonable.

Yeah, this was part of my point; as a member of the mafia, if he in reality feels so strongly against POE, he could have easily derailed the entire thread by responding in a more emotionally manipulative manner. Instead, he popped in, noticed a potential hole in my strategy, expressed his beefs, and then was basically like 'OK, you do you, I'll do me'. I would expect that a mafia INH might have been more tempted to respond more outrageously, or at least draw out the conversation more. He seemed intent to express his piece and then end it.

I guess I don't agree with this assertion. I don't think "emotional manipulation" is a typical circumstance in strategic dialogue regardless of alignment. Sometimes it gets heated when people don't understand each other like it did in Red vs. Blue, but that's an exception and not the rule in my experience (and in that game everyone involved minus Epi was town).

It's probably a small point of dissent that appears larger in a lengthy discussion, because I don't have a baddie read on INH. The only read-relevant thing I have to say is that he's on meta, and that's still a positive thing even if only weakly so.

I've spent like ten minutes looking at timmer's posts because they make me feel something, I just couldn't decide what.

A) His curious exploration of PoE with MP reflects a genuine interest in a method he hasn't considered, and his decision to forego it for now develops naturally from his stated concerns. That'd be nice.

B) He took the opportunity to discuss strategic matters without really thinking about their merits for his own sake. It creates posts in his ISO and establishes a rapport with an active contributor. That'd be less than nice.

Having typed both out now I feel like A) is more reasonable. So that's nice for timmer.

Looking at these, this is an intriguing observation; I just don't know what to do with it. The problem is that it is Day 0, and like Golden I'm not sure I can make any reasonable leap to this being alignment indicative.

So far in this game I have noticed Jay seems a bit more hesitant or uncomfortable than normal though.

[Tangrowth]

What say you, triple J? You nervous because you bad?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Sloonei, I would question whether confidence would make sense in the contexts you've referenced. I made assertions based upon my best understanding of the discussions and that was it. I can't derive a confident read on INH, for example, based upon the point for which MP requested feedback. I said as much. I can provide a tentative lean by meta but little else.

I think the meta you're assigning to me is better associated with a Zebra or a Mac. I may exhibit confidence eventually, but everything is tentative on Day 0. This one especially has been a large portion of strategic debate (I'll accept a share of the blame for that) and check-ins. The capacity for generating meaningful reads out of that is limited.

[Tangrowth]

Sloonei, I would question whether confidence would make sense in the contexts you've referenced. I made assertions based upon my best understanding of the discussions and that was it. I can't derive a confident read on INH, for example, based upon the point for which MP requested feedback. I said as much. I can provide a tentative lean by meta but little else.

I think the meta you're assigning to me is better associated with a Zebra or a Mac. I may exhibit confidence eventually, but everything is tentative on Day 0. This one especially has been a large portion of strategic debate (I'll accept a share of the blame for that) and check-ins. The capacity for generating meaningful reads out of that is limited.

I could assert that it appears as though you aren't making sincere efforts to generate content. What would you say in response to that accusation?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Sloonei, I would question whether confidence would make sense in the contexts you've referenced. I made assertions based upon my best understanding of the discussions and that was it. I can't derive a confident read on INH, for example, based upon the point for which MP requested feedback. I said as much. I can provide a tentative lean by meta but little else.

I think the meta you're assigning to me is better associated with a Zebra or a Mac. I may exhibit confidence eventually, but everything is tentative on Day 0. This one especially has been a large portion of strategic debate (I'll accept a share of the blame for that) and check-ins. The capacity for generating meaningful reads out of that is limited.

I could assert that it appears as though you aren't making sincere efforts to generate content. What would you say in response to that accusation?

I would say I'm actively trying *not* to generate content. I've said before that blowing the thread up on Day 0 deters too many people from keeping up with the game. I've actually posted more than I would have liked already by instinct.

Day 1 is a time for making things happen.

[Tangrowth]

Sloonei, I would question whether confidence would make sense in the contexts you've referenced. I made assertions based upon my best understanding of the discussions and that was it. I can't derive a confident read on INH, for example, based upon the point for which MP requested feedback. I said as much. I can provide a tentative lean by meta but little else.

I think the meta you're assigning to me is better associated with a Zebra or a Mac. I may exhibit confidence eventually, but everything is tentative on Day 0. This one especially has been a large portion of strategic debate (I'll accept a share of the blame for that) and check-ins. The capacity for generating meaningful reads out of that is limited.

I could assert that it appears as though you aren't making sincere efforts to generate content. What would you say in response to that accusation?

I would say I'm actively trying *not* to generate content. I've said before that blowing the thread up on Day 0 deters too many people from keeping up with the game. I've actually posted more than I would have liked already by instinct.

Day 1 is a time for making things happen.

Is it Day 1 yet?

[Sloonei]

I genuinely forgot we're still in Day 0 for most of my catch-up.

[Sloonei]

These were the two posts from the collection I made above that stood out and emphasized the point most to me:

Actually MP, your post count has already jumped to an obscene place. I'm not sure I've seen it quite like this since you started Transistor with 57 posts before the second-highest poster made it to #8.

You over-eager cuz you bad, m8?

Furthermore, I could say that this was a bit of a softball, Jay, fabricated to seem as though you care about uncovering my alignment, but with no actual value in determining that or in generating useful conversation.

What would you say in response to that?

I would say that it probably is a softball, or perhaps it's better described as a poo fling. That's the nature of Day 0. I'm more conscious of the specific point I made than the average player because I was on your baddie team in Transistor. It came to mind so I puked it into the thread. You had 30 posts and I was in second place with I think 8. That's a significant disparity that recalled the even more significant disparity in that other game.

I didn't see disdain from inh. He seemed to be fine with others using it, pointed out that it had a particular weakness in this game, and made it clear he wouldn't be using it. That's all perfectly reasonable.

Yeah, this was part of my point; as a member of the mafia, if he in reality feels so strongly against POE, he could have easily derailed the entire thread by responding in a more emotionally manipulative manner. Instead, he popped in, noticed a potential hole in my strategy, expressed his beefs, and then was basically like 'OK, you do you, I'll do me'. I would expect that a mafia INH might have been more tempted to respond more outrageously, or at least draw out the conversation more. He seemed intent to express his piece and then end it.

I guess I don't agree with this assertion. I don't think "emotional manipulation" is a typical circumstance in strategic dialogue regardless of alignment. Sometimes it gets heated when people don't understand each other like it did in Red vs. Blue, but that's an exception and not the rule in my experience (and in that game everyone involved minus Epi was town).

Those two little qualifiers at the beginnings of these posts ("it probably is...", "I guess...") seemed to me like they were concessions of a sort, like he was being forced to cover his tracks on something both times.

[Golden]

I don't know that I buy a link between trying not to create too much content, and actually not creating much content within the posts you do make, Jay.

It's possible not to post a lot but make content. My hot takes post, eg.

[Golden]

A qualifier - I don't know if it's because of what sloonei points out, but I independently felt in the PoE discussion, inh MP (and I) were all having a genuine discussion, and you almost were putting an oar in out of obligation because you know you are linked to the use of PoE in some peoples eyes. It's almost like you didn't want to contribute to the discussion but you did anyway. That's how it came across to me.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@Sloonei

The first one could be called a concession. Even when I'm town I often only half believe in my earliest reads/assertions. That's because being right is less important than the products of those assertions (responses from the focus of the assertion and other observers). When there's poop to fling one might as well fling it. That's sometimes the only way to make the game move.

I don't really have anything to say about "I guess". Replace those words with a shrug emoji and my intended message doesn't change.

[Vompatti]

What are these readings from, I love them in a semi-erotic way?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

A qualifier - I don't know if it's because of what sloonei points out, but I independently felt in the PoE discussion, inh MP (and I) were all having a genuine discussion, and you almost were putting an oar in out of obligation because you know you are linked to the use of PoE in some peoples eyes. It's almost like you didn't want to contribute to the discussion but you did anyway. That's how it came across to me.

That's probably because past discussions of POE have been a hot mess. I did want to state my perspective since the concept applies a different way in a game like this, but no I was not thrilled to be talking about bloody POE again.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Dom's reception of my poo fling at MP appears genuine. I can understand someone who didn't follow Transistor first hand might think it looks like I'm sussing MP for posting more than other people. In a vacuum that would look like a dubious notion.

[triceratopzeuhl]

I still don't get how this so-called POE is any different from normal mafia strategy

you are trying to figure out whether people are civ or baddie, which is the same thing you (or at least I) would do in any case other than when somebody slips and sounds obviously like a baddie (which I think is what MP referred to earlier as "tunneling")

even if your normal approach is to try and identify baddies, that still necessitates getting reads on people and ruling them out if they seem civ

maybe somebody can explain to me differently?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Scotty's accusation of me looks like a stance taken for the sake of taking a stance. That's less ideal.

[Tangrowth]

A qualifier - I don't know if it's because of what sloonei points out, but I independently felt in the PoE discussion, inh MP (and I) were all having a genuine discussion, and you almost were putting an oar in out of obligation because you know you are linked to the use of PoE in some peoples eyes. It's almost like you didn't want to contribute to the discussion but you did anyway. That's how it came across to me.

I got this impression to a degree as well. There's a certain tone to Jay's posts so far this game that permeates them; it's lacking a sense of urgency or desire.

[Tangrowth]

A qualifier - I don't know if it's because of what sloonei points out, but I independently felt in the PoE discussion, inh MP (and I) were all having a genuine discussion, and you almost were putting an oar in out of obligation because you know you are linked to the use of PoE in some peoples eyes. It's almost like you didn't want to contribute to the discussion but you did anyway. That's how it came across to me.

That's probably because past discussions of POE have been a hot mess. I did want to state my perspective since the concept applies a different way in a game like this, but no I was not thrilled to be talking about bloody POE again.

I didn't intend to bring up unpleasantness; that's my bad.

[Tangrowth]

I still don't get how this so-called POE is any different from normal mafia strategy

you are trying to figure out whether people are civ or baddie, which is the same thing you (or at least I) would do in any case other than when somebody slips and sounds obviously like a baddie (which I think is what MP referred to earlier as "tunneling")

even if your normal approach is to try and identify baddies, that still necessitates getting reads on people and ruling them out if they seem civ

maybe somebody can explain to me differently?

The difference is in the object of the hunt; that's all. Typically players hunt for mafia to solve the game, and if they make genuine / town reads on other players in the process then so be it and that helps, but to find the mafia is the main objective. POE just takes the reverse stance on that; instead of hunting for suspicious behavior, hunt to find fellow town, then just eliminate players who don't exhibit town behavior (hence why it's called process of elimination).

You're right that they're two sides of the same coin in the end; they're both ways to solve the game for the town. POE just specifically alters the main objective of the town to (theoretically) more effectively solve the game (because hunting for town is easier than hunting for mafia).

[Tangrowth]

Dom's reception of my poo fling at MP appears genuine. I can understand someone who didn't follow Transistor first hand might think it looks like I'm sussing MP for posting more than other people. In a vacuum that would look like a dubious notion.

Scotty's accusation of me looks like a stance taken for the sake of taking a stance. That's less ideal.

Is there a reason you're throwing these out now and not at the time that they occurred?

Furthermore, can you possibly elaborate on what led you to both of these conclusions?

I'm not trying to be annoying, by the way, I'm just trying to feel you out. I can't town read you and when I have no reason to town read you it's perturbing to me.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I just made that decision with Dom, and I was giving Scotty time to expand which hasn't happened.

[triceratopzeuhl]

I still don't get how this so-called POE is any different from normal mafia strategy

you are trying to figure out whether people are civ or baddie, which is the same thing you (or at least I) would do in any case other than when somebody slips and sounds obviously like a baddie (which I think is what MP referred to earlier as "tunneling")

even if your normal approach is to try and identify baddies, that still necessitates getting reads on people and ruling them out if they seem civ

maybe somebody can explain to me differently?

The difference is in the object of the hunt; that's all. Typically players hunt for mafia to solve the game, and if they make genuine / town reads on other players in the process then so be it and that helps, but to find the mafia is the main objective. POE just takes the reverse stance on that; instead of hunting for suspicious behavior, hunt to find fellow town, then just eliminate players who don't exhibit town behavior (hence why it's called process of elimination).

You're right that they're two sides of the same coin in the end; they're both ways to solve the game for the town. POE just specifically alters the main objective of the town to (theoretically) more effectively solve the game (because hunting for town is easier than hunting for mafia).

So if I understand you correctly, instead of picking somebody who reads as bad to lynch, you make a list of everybody who reads as good and choose from the others to lynch? Does that, er, ever actually work? Have you used this approach successfully before?

If I also understand correctly, the only reason that pages of discussion about so-called POE even started is because:

Although recently I've uncovered that POE naturally describes my recently developed playstyle because I much more easily find town reads than I do baddie reads

so I'm not sure why some people are getting so hung up on it (especially as MP's approach doesn't dictate how anybody else wants to play this game)

[JaggedJimmyJay]

triceratopzeuhl:

In your first post you acknowledged the quick beginnings of the baddie hunting in this game with what looked like an air of approval. Your content since though has been about the POE strategic discussion. Do you derive any reads from that?

[Dom]

honestly how does anyone have a read yet

Are there any of my reads you don't understand, or are you just lamenting that it is too early in the game to have assessed any reads of your own?

2nd one

Sloonei, I would question whether confidence would make sense in the contexts you've referenced. I made assertions based upon my best understanding of the discussions and that was it. I can't derive a confident read on INH, for example, based upon the point for which MP requested feedback. I said as much. I can provide a tentative lean by meta but little else.

I think the meta you're assigning to me is better associated with a Zebra or a Mac. I may exhibit confidence eventually, but everything is tentative on Day 0. This one especially has been a large portion of strategic debate (I'll accept a share of the blame for that) and check-ins. The capacity for generating meaningful reads out of that is limited.

would you call a bad mac tentative?
I don't really get the reference.

Scotty's accusation of me looks like a stance taken for the sake of taking a stance. That's less ideal.

but like do you even know scotty though

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm not sure you understand my meaning, Dom. I don't think Mac is tentative either way. Sloonei suggested my tentativeness is atypical, and I was drawing a distinction between myself and players (like Mac and Zebra) who will state confident reads on a Day 0.

I make reads on Day 0s which is itself perhaps atypical, but I don't act like they're authoritative.

[triceratopzeuhl]

triceratopzeuhl:

In your first post you acknowledged the quick beginnings of the baddie hunting in this game with what looked like an air of approval. Your content since though has been about the POE strategic discussion. Do you derive any reads from that?

Just impressed with the gusto from some people even if it might be mostly hot air. I can't tell much on day 0 and I seriously doubt anybody else can, no matter what they claim. We don't even have a lynch vote today, no night actions have happened, there isn't even a semi-nonsensical day 0 poll like some hosts like to do (MP comes to mind). At best one of the over-enthused paragraphs here will sound funny & gather suspicion - but who is more likely to be theorycrafting and looking for a winning strategy for the civs, goodies or baddies? Baddies benefit more from not directing attention at themselves.

Anyway, if alex is going to be posting his rainbow list here instead of keeping his reads private, it will if nothing else provide fodder for discussion

[Tangrowth]

I just made that decision with Dom, and I was giving Scotty time to expand which hasn't happened.

Seems legit. Thanks.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

triceratopzeuhl:

In your first post you acknowledged the quick beginnings of the baddie hunting in this game with what looked like an air of approval. Your content since though has been about the POE strategic discussion. Do you derive any reads from that?

Just impressed with the gusto from some people even if it might be mostly hot air. I can't tell much on day 0 and I seriously doubt anybody else can, no matter what they claim. We don't even have a lynch vote today, no night actions have happened, there isn't even a semi-nonsensical day 0 poll like some hosts like to do (MP comes to mind). At best one of the over-enthused paragraphs here will sound funny & gather suspicion - but who is more likely to be theorycrafting and looking for a winning strategy for the civs, goodies or baddies? Baddies benefit more from not directing attention at themselves.

Anyway, if alex is going to be posting his rainbow list here instead of keeping his reads private, it will if nothing else provide fodder for discussion

I like this post.