GY!BE Mafia [E.N.D.]

[Boomslang]

It's hard for me to read all of this and not see it as misdirection and intentional confusion on some level, especially when the main targets seem to be sig, BWT, and Scotty, who may as well change their avatars to bullzeyes for how they are usually treated.

Sorry, we already have a Bullzeye on this site

Though you make a good point. We need to have a broad approach this early, not zoom in on targets.

How do you propose we go about taking a broad approach?

Questions everyone, don't let people slide unnoticed. It's kind of hard when low posters just... don't do anything, even when prodded :/

[Sloonei]

It's hard for me to read all of this and not see it as misdirection and intentional confusion on some level, especially when the main targets seem to be sig, BWT, and Scotty, who may as well change their avatars to bullzeyes for how they are usually treated.

Sorry, we already have a Bullzeye on this site

Though you make a good point. We need to have a broad approach this early, not zoom in on targets.

How do you propose we go about taking a broad approach?

Questions everyone, don't let people slide unnoticed. It's kind of hard when low posters just... don't do anything, even when prodded :/

I agree. Got any questions for any particular people who are going by unnoticed?

[Golden]

- I agree with the point that Jay expressed that BWT has seemingly made a sincere effort to interact with other players in the game as much as possible

I'll add that this does not match my only memorable experience of BWT being bad - subbing in to economics for him. He feels quite different to me here than what he did there, and I think it about his breadth, although it's hard to put a finger on in words.

I won't be voting for bwt or sig today, so of those three people who are so called 'bullseyes', Scotty is the only one I'm interested in (and also, the only one who I disagree with the assessment that he is a bullseye, but maybe that's happened more recently while I've been around less).

[Sloonei]

@MP, and anyone else who's interest, I laid out some of my own thoughts on BWT here:

This trio of posts from birdwithteeth intrigues me:

Spoiler: show

I lost interest after reading PoE 3 times

JJJ and MP, are you teammates again?

I don't use POE myself that much if at all, but I do find it an interesting strategy and, while not perfect, can be effective in certain situations.

What makes you think they're teammates? Just because they have similar feelings on certain players, albeit with slight disagreements on other opinions? Because I have null reads on both so far.

Linki @MP - idk. I think it's the PoE discussion along with your mannerisms. Declaring PoE as your playstyle gives you a means to stick to something and have at least have that method of play be true. Your mannerisms make it hard to read you in general.

While I can see the argument for the first part, I disagree very much with the bolded. Since I started playing mafia, I think MP's mannerisms have changed considerably. I used to be able to tell much more quickly in games if he was civ or bad. But I think he has evolved and adapted well enough that he's become a much more difficult read, regardless of playstyle and mannerisms.

That being said, there are some thing he is more likely to do if he is civ vs. bad and vice-versa...

That's exactly what a baddie would say.

Eh, I guess it was the mannerisms were just subject of my thoughts at the moment, but you are correct. This defined PoE playstyle is what has my feathers rustled. Your argument that it produces content doesn't settle my stomachache either as I know you have the potential to out tons of posts as a baddie just as you do while civvie.

Sooooo....you feel his defined playstyle and him stating so bothers you, but then say it isn't indicative-alignment right afterwards?

I thought you were trying to make your mind up on something. Are you sure you aren't just trying to stir the pot early on?

All three posts are responses to DrWilgy about MP. In all three he is either vaguely defensive of MP or vaguely critical of Wilgy, or both. BWT has also been very wishy-washy with regards to Edgar Allan Poe all game long with posts like this one where he expresses skepticism of the strategy but does not condemn it or MP at all.
birdwithteeth, how are you reading Wilgy right now? How are you reading MP? What compelled you to respond to these posts in this way?

Others, how do you feel about these posts?

I am not nearly as familiar with him as others (MP and Golden included), so I should defer somewhat to those more informed reads, but I won't dismiss some of the shaky feelings I get reading his posts. For instance, MP says he feels that BWT's discussion of the Process of Elimination stuff felt genuine, but I heartily disagree with that assessment. To me it looked like he was just talking vaguely about it from both sides of an argument, and not really committing to any particular read or stance on anything.

[Boomslang]

How do you propose we go about taking a broad approach?

Questions everyone, don't let people slide unnoticed. It's kind of hard when low posters just... don't do anything, even when prodded :/

I agree. Got any questions for any particular people who are going by unnoticed?

Timmer: Surely not all of the "active players" you mentioned in your recent post are equal? Who, in your opinion, should post less?
LoRab: You questioned the necessity of doing anything Day 0. Who do you think made the best use of their Day 0?
A Person: Do you have... anything of value to add?

[Spacedaisy]

Hey players, just popping my head in to say, I am following along and just want to remind everyone involved that I'm here. And I'm feeling lonely, so feel free to come talk to me if you need to vent, need me to do anything etc. Let's try to keep the game fun and friendly while we accuse each other of being lying murderers, mmkay? Have fun guys, and don't hesitate to PM me.

[timmer]

Sorry for the delay in posting guys, I got called into work. Still technically at work for 5 more hours, but I'm done my stuff and the managers have gone home, so I'll read back now.

[timmer]

I'm not really sure, but it strikes me as potentially fabricated. Here's why: Of literally all of my 130+ posts that Dom could have responded to, he chose to zero in on the use of my word "fellow" in one post. Not my use of POE (which Scotty and Wilgy criticized as a potential tool for me to hide behind if I'm bad, for example, even though you all should know better that my baddie strategy is never to hide a damn thing). Not my treatment of any other players.

I've started from my last post before disappearing. Some things I comment on may be clarified/changed/as I read furthur in, but there are so many posts, if I don't talk while i read I'll lose track of everything.

First point, the bolded above. ^ Has MP never shaken up his game? Has he never played a game different than his norm? Hasn't he admitted that he way more active in this game than normal? So why imply that such a thing can only be true if he is civ, and state that if he were bad, he'd never say such things. Only the worst players are incapable of trying something different, and MP isn't a bad player, and he knows all about WIFOM. I've ALWAYS been pinged when people say "you know I wouldn't play that was as a baddie"....

moving on.

[timmer]

Going back to MP, if he didn't have the ol' POE shield to hide behind, I'd consider him my top suspicion. But, I find everything about the POE strategy suspicious and wrong, so my entire barometer's completely out of whack. I'm not exactly sure who elected him king of the thread, I must have missed that Day 0 poll, but he's sure acting like it what with the demands that people meet his standards of play and constant announcements about his own personal POE rankings which are mostly irrelevant to anyone that doesn't actively suspect him due to the fact that NOBODY ELSE IS USING POE IN THIS GAME. That, plus THE LARGE AMOUNT OF SECRETS AND CHICANERY INVOLVED IN THIS GAME MAKE POE STUPID EVEN BY POE STANDARDS. but hey, whatever floats your boat.

Hmm, so I was worried that this might happen. The constant chatter and extreme post count devoted to poe seemed destined to annoy someone, and here we apparently go.

First thing... I don't think anyone has declared MP to be king of the thread. In fact, I've yet to see a single person "follow" him, other than to follow him into discussing other players. Which is how we catch bad guys. Right? So what MP has done, and the others discussing reads in what seems like an early part of the game to do it, is create CONTENT.

I mean, how many Day 1's have we all had the misery of sitting through where everyone is just staring at the wall and then it comes time to vote and everyone goes... "iono... maybs Vomp cuz reasonz?"

This is the most active Day 1 I've ever seen. Why the annoyance, INH?

To end this... all anyone has to do to "counter" MP... is to join him in...wait for it... discussing players. Which is mafia.

I REALLY hope MP doesn't get lynched for daring to bloody well discuss players on a Day 1.

[timmer]

Okay, that's it for page 5. Off to supper, more later.

[timmer]

Jay, can you give me a rainbow? I'd like a rainbow.

How about gun to heads? That'd be more useful to me right now.

A Person -- bad
Boomslang -- bad
LoRab -- bad
Scotty -- bad
sig -- bad

I like these baddies and my own GTH scum team might look similar right now, so that's good. Boomslang has given me a couple of pings, and nothing about LoRab's small sample of posts has carried over those Super Strong Town vibes that just radiated from everything she did in Mad Max. Scotty has had a fair amount of suspicion brought against him which I am intrigued by. A Person hasn't said a whole lot and I can pick up some lurker scum vibes in there. sig's done nothing to catch my eye, though.

This early in the game, I'm not capable of putting together Big Thoughts like some of you are doing, I only have gut feels, but I'll say that I'm feeling good about sloonei, and I agree with the lurker scum vibe re: A Person.

[timmer]

Jesus Christ, Six Pages

Just an aside for today, since it's Day 1. I'm loving Epig's song title post method, but from my pov, it will have to begin including content at some point or I will start to think it is a baddie sign. Not yet... but eventually yes.

[Epignosis]

This Includes Content

[timmer]

This is our break down, now I haven't read enough to have a read on Boom or Scotty, but if A-person/Lorab/myself is being pursued to get lynched I would look very closely at whoever is trying to set up our lynches since there is no evidence one way or another and lynching a low poster on day one when we already have 15 pages is a good place to throw a day 1 vote if you're mafia.

It's an interesting Day 1, though. If we do indeed have 15 pages of content, and a few people are choosing to coast on yuks, I'd say they are fair game. As you say, we have lots of content. Why are people like A Person choosing not to jump in, when we have so much to chew on? It's the greatest Day 1 ever! An ordinary Day 1, with a bunch of OT shit and jokes, sure, someone can get by on low posts and nothing to say. But this one seems different, so AFAIAC, low posters are fair game.

[Vompatti]

Voted for timmer for dissing low posters.

[timmer]

I don't quite see your point agaisnt me here? I thought something was odd so I pointed it out, I still find it odd that Dom jumped in over something like that.

These posts were just from me searching my name.=

This makes me feel something ping-y, but I'll put it to the group because maybe this is common and I'm just weird for NOT doing it.... but do you guys come into a thread on Day 1 and search your own name, to answer posts mentioning you? I've never done that, but I could understand someone doing it later in a game maybe, like it's Day 5 and I know I took increasing amounts of heat on Days 3 and 4, and want to quickly see if I'm under fire, again... but Day 1? Does this signal a baddie? Am I over-thinking this?

See... okay, this is the earliest I'll have ever broken down the timing of posts in a game, but this feels like Sig was told he's being eyed. Let me show it:

He had 2 posts Day 0. One nothing intro post early on, and then a post about POE. Nothing of interest.

But then his first post of Day 1 is this:

Y'all just jumped into this game didn't you.

Why am I being GTH bad? I'll catch up this afternoon somewhat, but have a few projects and papers so might not address everything.

Followed instantly by this:

Or, Canuck's quote in my sig below.

I hate when I look up my name and this junk comes up.

So... Theory A: Sig routinely looks himself up in games as early as Day 1, read completely through everyone's posts mentioning his name, saw that people were including him as a possible baddie on GTH reads on Day 1, and felt the need to comment on it.

Except... he didn't make a jokey post first, or a "sorry I've been busy, let me catch up" post or anything. He just quietly got full grasp of his place in the game and then launched right into defending it.

Which leads me to Theory B: Sig has BTSC and was told that he was being eyed, read it all while in baddie chat, formulated a defense and posted it.

I'm leaning towards Theory B. There is something really weird about silently and without posting anything studying your own position in the game and then making your first post of Day 1 a defense post. It's a gut interpreation, but while I continue my reading, it earns sig a vote.

[timmer]

Y'all just jumped into this game didn't you.

Why am I being GTH bad? I'll catch up this afternoon somewhat, but have a few projects and papers so might not address everything.

One more time, emphasizing the key part. Sig's first post of Day 1 was to say that he is busy, will catch up later, but he took the time to search his own name, first? Why would someone do that unless they were told ahead of time that they were being eyed. This is day 1.

[timmer]

Voted for timmer for dissing low posters.

I just voted one, too.

[Marmot]

My first ping of the day.

Timmer hadn't posted for about 24 hours

Boomslang asks timmer a question.

Timmer posts a mere 10 minutes later.

Unvote whoever I voted (on my phone, can't remember)

Vote Boomslang for now.

[Marmot]

Scratch that, it was 20 minutes, not 10.

Still much suspect.

[timmer]

Sloonie I see what he is doing as early day 1 reads. So he might not be taking a strong stance, but I don't think that is alignment indicating. I also don't want to lynch bwt today since he always seems to get lynched early and rarely (if ever) is mafia when lynched day 1/2

Hey Boomslang, have my vote. Convince me you're town. What are your current reads and why? They don't have to be anything substantial by any means.

I don't like this post, not saying it is a mafia post or pingy I just don't like it. We have just started day 1 how many accurate and true reads can you have at this point? In fact i'd be more suspicious of people who have any strong reads since it would imply buddying/mafia town reading people they think are town.

I feel like we are moving way to quickly for a day 1 and that it could cause harm to town in mid game.

at this point, I'm waiting for the actual game to start, because reading into this pre-game nonsense is giving me nothing.

I actually agree with this, I've read day 0 and have gotten very little from it so far.

I dislike how both sig and INH seem to hate that people are working on content on Day 1 (how dare they?) while offering up little in the way of alternatives.

[timmer]

This isn't good content.

It's, like, American cable news content.

Just rehashing and obsessing and poking at nothing.

Why are you content to discredit the content of the game while not offering any of your own? How is your play helping the civs? You aren't oferring up alternate content, you are simply suggesting that everyone should ignore the content that is there.

[timmer]

Timmer: Surely not all of the "active players" you mentioned in your recent post are equal? Who, in your opinion, should post less?

Nobody, this is the best Day 1 I can remember.

[timmer]

My first ping of the day.

Timmer hadn't posted for about 24 hours

Boomslang asks timmer a question.

Timmer posts a mere 10 minutes later.

Unvote whoever I voted (on my phone, can't remember)

Vote Boomslang for now.

And I thought *I* was obsessed over post timing, lol. @MM, what do you think of my sig posts?

I'm all caught up now. Sig or INH are highest on my vote list for the day.

[Golden]

I like timmer's contributions.

[Epignosis]

It's a Sin to Kill a Bird With Teeth on the First Day.

[LoRab]

I'm like 5 pages behind. Trying to catch up. Just wanted to let y'all know that I'm still here.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Hey gang. It's been a long, active day for the JJJ. Please direct me to the nearest moment of Mafia interest. I'm reading.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

What would be a better answer?

An answer which details a reasonable perspective you have/had about what I might be doing as a baddie when I poked MP on Day 0 which bears the appearance of being genuine. I don't know what that'd be, but I'd imagine it's plausible for it to exist.

What would be a worse answer?

An answer which details an unreasonable perspective you have/had about what I might be doing as a baddie when I poked MP on Day 0 which does not bear the appearance of being genuine. I thought you might be shading me for opportunism re: MP via implication without directly stating it, which would be a dubious assertion given the fuller context of my dialogue with MP.

To your credit, you didn't go there. You didn't provide a "reasonable perspective" either; you left your answer at its most basic: "I thought your accusation was b/s and it was a ping". It's not a thorough explanation, but it's also not one that looks made up. I can on some level appreciate the take-it-or-leave-it frankness.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Congratulations Jay, you've broken down my Day 0 as a neutral party. It was an interesting experiment, because yes, I did depart from my normal meta. Except did I really? I haven't committed to voting anyone, and my normal day 1 is going to go after low posters. Nothing new here.

I don't know what the yellow stuff means.

A meta departure isn't necessarily a problem. Metas are a muddy, gray thing which I'm starting to believe blinds townies as much as or more than it helps them in their hunting practice. However, you've simultaneously affirmed and refuted my assertion that it was a meta departure. You and I have had a few conversations in recent games about the real potential for reads to be generated on a Day 0/1 -- you've insisted that it's not a skill you feel you possess. Have you made the decision to try to change that in this game?

Oh, has it? I did this in mad max and don't remember anyone doing it recently before that. But I'll be a trendsetter, sure.
I know I can't prove it, but I don't really care to impress you explicitly. Anyway, I looked at my role at the start of Day 1 and can keep this day 0 in my back pocket.

Just skimming through, I have vague notions that MP is probably good. Ironically, I have liked INH's posts- they've had a nice fluidity and logical mindset. But I can't help but think he's being safe with his points---well guarded and fleshed out so as to say "look at me, world! I'm a newspaper and the headline is Me"

Far more interested in bwt, who i have had a hand in killing or voting for in the first day/might cycle several times now. He had some thorough posts up until that post where he posted his strongest convictions which turned out to have as much verve as Gigli. Then he dropped off the face of the earth.

Since votes are changeable, I'm voting there for now. Will see if he comes back in to post stuff about riffraff.

bwt

As for my first post of you being bad, JJJ? Meh. Gut read off of an impartial viewer if the first few pages told me you were trying too hard but not hard enough. Wallflowerjng, for jay standards. Which is remarkably saying a lot.

Another gut baddie is Sloonei, who seems to be hiding behind some grumpy, Epi-like persona.

Yellow: My hands are tied on this point because a game is ongoing. I'll just say that I have my doubts.

Orange: I can understand the perspective; BWT's post of reads wasn't filled with assertive conclusions. I would however ask you whether there is fundamental difference between his uncertainty and your own -- look for example at your INH read. You cover both sides of the coin and end with a conclusion that is unclear. This point also relates to another one that MP made and I reiterated -- the same one Sloonei has demanded you discuss.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don't like this GTH reads from 3J, his baddie reads are low hanging fruits and most are currently low posters.

Aperson/Lorab 2
Sig 4
Boomslang 16
Scotty 24

This is our break down, now I haven't read enough to have a read on Boom or Scotty, but if A-person/Lorab/myself is being pursued to get lynched I would look very closely at whoever is trying to set up our lynches since there is no evidence one way or another and lynching a low poster on day one when we already have 15 pages is a good place to throw a day 1 vote if you're mafia.

I agree that A Person, LoRab, and you have low post counts. I don't care. Generally speaking, more baddies have low post counts than high post counts. I provided reasons for those reads, tell me what you think of those reasons. I'm also interested in the notion of "low-hanging fruit" -- a term you've associated with the set of names I provided. Do you feel Boomslang and Scotty are examples low-hanging fruit, and if so why?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

There's inherently little to say about LoRab and sig with so few posts each. My concern with LoRab is that she showed up FIRST!!! and seemed enthusiastic, but hasn't done anything since. sig made one real post in which he drew what looked to me like an arbitrary point of out of the pile (sussing Dom for his concern about my poo fling at MP), like he provided a "hot take" for the sake of doing it.

I could play the odds with A Person too. I have no idea. The one post is not inspired.

I don't quite see your point agaisnt me here? I thought something was odd so I pointed it out, I still find it odd that Dom jumped in over something like that.

It struck me that you selected a single point in the game to support (you asserted you were supporting my suspicion of Dom, though that's not really what I was doing in the post in question -- I was answering Dom's accusation). Based on that discrepancy between your support and my intent in that post, it looked to me like you felt like you needed to make a point of some kind and pulled one out of the thread at random. It was the sole point you made apart from strategic dialogue re: POE.

What do you feel Dom's baddie might have been at that moment?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Others, how do you feel about these posts?

A couple comments:

~ It doesn't appear to me like BWT intended to voice a read on MP but rather discuss his experience playing with MP and how it has developed over time. It's not especially reads-relevant which itself lends to a potential for filler, but I don't see it as "wishy-washy" without it actually being a read. I see neutral commentary.

~ The third BWT post in your spoiler raises a question:

Spoiler: show

That's exactly what a baddie would say.

Eh, I guess it was the mannerisms were just subject of my thoughts at the moment, but you are correct. This defined PoE playstyle is what has my feathers rustled. Your argument that it produces content doesn't settle my stomachache either as I know you have the potential to out tons of posts as a baddie just as you do while civvie.

Sooooo....you feel his defined playstyle and him stating so bothers you, but then say it isn't indicative-alignment right afterwards?

I thought you were trying to make your mind up on something. Are you sure you aren't just trying to stir the pot early on?

There's a negative air to this post in BWT's questioning of Wilgy, and I think that's okay. It's a poke which can inspire a response and ideally allow the read to develop. However, it's not my favorite thing that BWT ended with the highlighted question. I'm not certain this question promotes a reliably reads-relevant response because I perceive "stirring the pot" to be a strategy employed by both townies and baddies. I'm also not sure which of those alignments BWT is associating with this question -- whether he is asking Wilgy if he's a townie trying to provoke reactions or asking Wilgy if he's a baddie trying to manipulate conflict.

BWT: could you please clarify your intended direction for the highlighted question?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don't care about Scotty's post, and frankly, if I were him I'd be annoyed to be pressed on it so much. I'd just assume people realized it was a dumb mistake.

So, for the record, are you saying that you believe Scotty's supposed contradictory reads were a semantic error and/or that he is good?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Loose thought about Epignosis: he was visibly dissatisfied with his performance post-replacement in Mad Max as a baddie, lamenting that he didn't have the time he needed to be the thread presence he wanted to be.

If he drew a baddie role again in this game I'd expect to see a better effort. He takes a lot of pride in his baddie banners, as well he should. This would not represent prideful baddie play.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

This timmer post might be my favorite in the game to this point. I think the points timmer makes about sig are reasonable and compelling, and I think the mindset he conveys in this particular brand of hunting would be difficult to duplicate -- or even think up -- as a baddie.

It warrants a little research to see whether timmer's proposed Theory A (that sig does this often in Mafia games) can be supported. I'll do a little quick digging.

[triceratopzeuhl]

I want to hear thoughts from A Person, LoRab, and Triceratops in particular, whenever they can.

I've been away most of today, anything in particular you want me to comment on? I don't have a read on most players partly because I don't know most of their usual posting styles

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I want to hear thoughts from A Person, LoRab, and Triceratops in particular, whenever they can.

I've been away most of today, anything in particular you want me to comment on? I don't have a read on most players partly because I don't know most of their usual posting styles

Could you allow yourself to drop the "usual posting styles" notion for the moment and state your perspectives of players at face value? Without knowing people any better than you do, what feelings have you had about anyone while reading the thread?

[triceratopzeuhl]

OK JJJ:

MP is posting too much & has a very low signal to noise ratio

I think BWT's "definitive reads" thing is just bad word choice and not particularly suspicious (I could be wrong but I don't remember BWT exactly being shakespeare nothing personal)

Dom and Scotty both have this sort of arrogant thing going on in their posts that seems like it might just be their normal personas

verdict is still out on you, INH, boomslang, wilgy, golden, sloonei; I need to do some re-reading (probably tomorrow morning)

I haven't seen enough from timmers, ninja, a person, metalmarsh, sig or lorab to have an idea

and:

Loose thought about Epignosis: he was visibly dissatisfied with his performance post-replacement in Mad Max as a baddie, lamenting that he didn't have the time he needed to be the thread presence he wanted to be.

If he drew a baddie role again in this game I'd expect to see a better effort. He takes a lot of pride in his baddie banners, as well he should. This would not represent prideful baddie play.

This may be so, but it seems way to easy to hide being a baddie behind useless gimmickposting. He's obviously been reading the thread and posting occasionally, has just apparently decided he's not interested in contributing to the game.

[triceratopzeuhl]

too*

[triceratopzeuhl]

For reason specified above I'm putting my vote on Epignosis on the slim chance I miss the deadline tomorrow (since we can change votes)

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Thanks, TZ (I'm going to start calling you that for short if you don't object).

Does MP's signal-to-noise ratio make you suspicious of him? How about Dom and Scotty's perceived arrogance?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

It warrants a little research to see whether timmer's proposed Theory A (that sig does this often in Mafia games) can be supported. I'll do a little quick digging.

I'm not turning up much of interest in this research. It's a bit difficult to discern whether sig employed this method in other games, because the only way to investigate is to search for key terms. I looked for "mention" and "name" in each of his 2016 games other than ESS Mafia (no clue which sock he was or what that sock is now) and didn't turn up much. It's a limited method, so I don't really derive any inspiring developments from it. The best indicator I could find was a couple of instances of posts like this:

Spoiler: show

I'ma hold Wilgy hostage until Sloon has moved her vote to sig, who we should lynch today.

I don't think she should do that. (Sorry Sloonie I had to. :P)

You haven't mentioned me at all this game yet you want to lynch me why?

[Day 1 of Spirited Away; sig was town]

At least that evidences a consciousness by sig of people mentioning him.

~~~

This matter can be better addressed by sig himself: sig, please describe your approach to this game upon your arrival in Day 1 and why you approached it that way.

[triceratopzeuhl]

Thanks, TZ (I'm going to start calling you that for short if you don't object).

Does MP's signal-to-noise ratio make you suspicious of him? How about Dom and Scotty's perceived arrogance?

"trice" is a common shortened version but I'm ok with TZ if 5 letters is too many for you

I haven't decided on MP yet. I believe a couple other people have said he's behaving differently from normal, which MP has hand-waved away as "oh but I'm doing POE this game that's why"

[Golden]

OK, so I may not get back before deadline, so I may as well put my thoughts on scotty out there.

I do not believe scotty didn't look at his PM. It's possible he just said he didn't for playful fun, but his tone is not one of playful fun. But Scotty takes his team duty seriously and wouldn't not check in my opinion.

Add to that, I have a tonal issue with scotty. Trice just described him as 'arrogant', but no, this is not normal scotty. The scotty I'm used to is a town force who maintains a certain level of 'tipping his hat' to everyone else. Arrogance is not something I associate with him in the slightest.

What's more, from my perspective, Scotty has a habit of getting himself into early trouble when bad. I don't agree with whoever said he is a 'bullseye', because I don't think scotty gets lynched early very often. But I can recall twice he got himself into early trouble - red vs blue and Lost Again season 1. In each of these games my perception is that he was playing a pretty decent game (and trying to replicate town scotty) but got himself caught up in contradictions.

The Scotty I see at the start of this game is not a scotty I've seen before. But Scotty has no need to mix up a town game that serves him well. On the other hand, he seems to get caught early as a baddie. My impression is that this 'distant' scotty (my read of what Trice is seeing as slightly arrogant, I think) is his attempt to mix up his baddie game and not get caught.

Add to that, he's getting caught in contradictions again.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Having said all of that about scotty, my vote for inh was more than a 'no u'. I do apologise for my mini meltdown, but to me there is only so many times that you can criticise everyone else for 'not creating meaningful content' while doing nothing yourself.

Jay pointed out that inh 'described mafia' when criticising what others were doing. I agree.

He does things like call out the sig votes as having 'no thread basis' despite criticising the things people are trying to do to establish a thread basis for their votes.

I see it being very plausible that inh is bad and someone... probably not sig... is taking heat for what inh considers to be bullsuit reasons.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm genuinely torn between which to vote for. Scotty is generally the one of these two I find easiest to read long term, and I do feel as though he has lacked opportunity to contribute so far. On the other hand, he seems like the much more likely place to get some sort of vague consensus, which means my vote has a higher chance of relevance.

On the other hand, I find inh potentially much more insidious as I do not really know if he ever creates content, and so I don't know what I would hang him on later if he is bad. I also feel as though inh flipping bad would tell us more than scotty would, because I get the sense inh is old school and that defending teammates by implication on day one is definitely something he would do. But he is much less likely to be lynched.

So, with that dilemma in mind....

I'm going to leave my vote on inh, because I have more conviction about him, and if I happen to get some time in the morning I'll revisit it then.

[Golden]

Also, despite the things I have been wary of with Jay in this game (particularly day 0).... I'm beginning to feel ok about him right now.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I might call INH the most difficult player for me to read on this roster, because I feel it is impossible to make that read without 1) being pushed by emotion in response to feeling like my play is being belittled and 2) over-reliance upon meta.

When I look at INH's posts in this game and judge them at face value, I see things that are suspicious. I see:

1) Mass, sweeping discredits of everyone who is making an effort
2) Implied but not conclusively stated defenses of perceived "bullzeye" targets
3) A lack of original hunting-relevant content despite a post history of moderate quantity and a few thick posts

These things are red flags in the most general sense. If I see them in a Mafia game thread, I tend to suspect those doing it. And yet, I feel like I've been here before with INH. The 1st and 3rd
items above are hallmarks of his play, and they've caused him to fall under fire repeatedly in recent games from me, from Sloonei, from Golden, and probably others. The 2nd item isn't one I'd call a "hallmark", though it may be a natural product of the 1st.

He was a baddie in Psych Mafia. There's the baseline to draw any comparisons and to qualify any reads. There's one post in particular:

Spoiler: show

So, it looks like the Day 1 crazies have set in, and I think that everyone's more than a little bit coo-coo right now. There seem to be weird suspicions directed from sig at Elo, Lorab, and SVS/Soneji that are based on what looks like literally nothing except minute Day 1 interactions and "Why are you defending him? Your defense is weird! You two must be teammates!" All of it seems incoherent, and none of it jives with me logically or emotionally.

Also, Wilgy has a Wilgy thingy-majigger against Dom, because presumably he just saw an episode of Sesame Street featuring the letter "D" and therefore the universe is telling him in a holistic manner that Dom must be scum.

The only vague Day 0/1 kerfuffle-ry that makes my eyebrow twitch is Scotty's "Tee-hee, I haven't even looked at my role card." combined with his fly-by vote for Sokoth and his weak suspicion reasoning against Sig. Not that I'm necessarily saying that I support sig, I just think that there are much more legitimate reasons to suspect him instead of "He usually doesn't post this much."

That post is from Psych Mafia, not this game.

I yellow-highlighted moments of familiarity. INH defended three people by implication by discrediting reads given by sig. A parallel can be drawn there to his discredits and implied defenses in this game. There's also the "none of it jives with me" thing wherein INH shoos away the notion that trying to make any real read on Day 1 isn't inherently a waste of time.

Also, I just saw that orange bit by chance and it bears an obvious connection to this game too. I'll look into that separately.

Compiling this post proved rather moving, actually. The parallels are tight, and regardless of meta face value problems should be acknowledged. I could get behind an INH lynch.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Looking into Scotty pulling the "haven't looked at my rolecard" thing in Psych Mafia in which he was a townie:

Spoiler: show

I am here! I have not looked at my role card yet, so if I call you out and you are my baddie teammate I'm like sooo sorry

I'm gonna be pretty busy the next week so I apologize.

Lalalalalala still haven't checked my Role Pm. This is slightly fun except for the fact that I am one of the low posters I would normally vote for in day 1.

I don't have a lot of time so I'm changing things up:

Scotty's Mafia Pick-of-Day (TM):

Sig/Sukoth/Dom

Sig, don't be a Donald Trump!
I think sig is talking too much to be civ. I think he is trying to maintain a civ appearance by talking almost as much as my great aunt Kathy.

Sukoth, don't be a crappy Star Trek sequel!
I liked the first 2 in this new franchise, and after seeing the last one, I fear we're headed into bad pastures. Don't head down bad pastures. Too much CGI and green screen can kill the practicality of a movie, just like your feigned interest in the thread can give you the guise to appear civ.

Dom, don't be my uncle Sean's liver!
He drinks a lot, and he might need to get a transplant soon. This is serious business. The liver is only there as a placeholder until he gets a new one, just like your posts. I don't like em.


Aight, now to look at my role card.

Good news! I'm not bad!

I also want to state that Wilgy is DEFINITELY not a doctor. That is all.
Dont be a lying Doctorpants like Wilgy

Those posts are from Psych Mafia, not this game.

Relevant posts from this game for the sake of comparison:

Spoiler: show

Hot takes

Bwt is town. Scotty is bad.

Can you elaborate?

No.

I mean, I could, but I'd rather not right now.

You are just as bad as me if you think I am bad without elaboration.

Also I haven't looked at my role card yet. I'll do that when the game actually starts.

I'm interested in why MP is the self-proclaimed Mother Theresa this game, and is getting a pass for listing off civs.

You are just as bad as me if you think I am bad without elaboration.

Scotty just admitted he was bad. Lynch him!

Also I haven't looked at my role card yet. I'll do that when the game actually starts.

Hang on. Are you just claiming to be 'bad' like how one would in the 80s? You wouldn't know if you hadn't read your role...

This logic puzzle you seem to be trying to solve is missing a few pieces.

I sure hope when I check my role you aren't my baddie partner. For both our sakes

Hot takes

Bwt is town. Scotty is bad.

Golden, are you planning on elaborating on this anytime soon?

He's waiting for me to check my BTSC chat so he can yell at me for not opening my role card before posting

Oh, has it? I did this in mad max and don't remember anyone doing it recently before that. But I'll be a trendsetter, sure.
I know I can't prove it, but I don't really care to impress you explicitly. Anyway, I looked at my role at the start of Day 1 and can keep this day 0 in my back pocket.

One difference: in Psych he said he didn't read his role yet in his very first post. In this game he waited until his fourth post. I don't know whether that means anything. It seems more natural to me to say that right away, but I could be influenced by the inherent bias of already knowing Scotty was a townie when he did it that way. One thing I will acknowledge is that this dampens my prior concern that Scotty was jumping in on a recent trend as a gambit, because this came before the example in the ongoing game I've been mentioning. It can still be called a trend, but his role in that trend is more "setter" than "participant".

Scotty: why? Why skip reading the role card until Day 1 starts?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

insertnamehere

[Tangrowth]

My activity will inevitably die off as other games that I've signed up for begin so I'll be be playing anywhere from 2-4 games at once, my PhD schedule starts to pick back up again before I leave in a couple of weeks, etc. I'll be around off and on today though and probably will be around for EoD.