GY!BE Mafia [E.N.D.]

[timmer]

Timmer suggested JJJ was a civvie role with an info gathering ability. I don't see how this could possibly be the case.

Uhm, no.

You suggested that he was the SK. I asked you why the situation couldn't have other possibilities, such as JJJ being one of the two M=R roles. You gave me an answer which I deemed to make no sense. That is VERY different than me saying that he was a certain role. You just chose to ignore that possibility.

[Tangrowth]

His only reason for suspecting either me or JJJ is that we are criticizing his baddie-like behavior

[arrested development, ron howard narrator voice]
it's not.

[birdwithteeth11]

Hey BWT, are you able to produce some summarized/quick reads for me (whether rainbow or not)? I'm curious where your head is at right now.

Linki: Same question to Trice.

I'd like to know where y'all stand on Marmot right now.

I am considering voting for him for today.

Other possibilities for a vote: Scotty, Lorab (but not as likely now that she's done more than just defend herself in every post)

Won't be getting my vote: You, Epignosis

Anyone else is somewhere in the middle.

I already did. That's where my head is right now. Any of those you'd like me to expand on?

Linki: The "anyone else in the middle" part applies to literally anyone else in this game right now that I did not specifically list. Either I had a read on them earlier and it's since been lost amongst players I feel more firm about, or I never did to begin with and still do not.

I will pose the same question to you. Anyone stand out to you that you have a strong or strong-ish read on?

[triceratopzeuhl]

It was only in response to the one example possibility you listed

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Also, if Marmot was bad I'd expect him to be gleefully defending me right now for WIFOM's sake, because the easy mindset for people to adopt emerging from my Day 3 vote is that JJJ saved Marmot, they're team mates. He's not playing into that falsehood which suggests to me that he is truly trying to discern the truth of what I'm doing.

I'm lost in this point; talk to me more about this when you get the chance.

I've since compiled a full ISO on MM which has changed my feelings some. At the time though I felt it was decent that Marmot was digging into me after I had placed the vote that essentially saved him from being lynched (or being in a tie). If he's bad, I'd have expected him to play into the notion that I did save him because we're team mates, a WIFOM opportunity that would have presented itself to our local lord of WIFOM.

This point was more of a personal one since it hinges upon my own alignment.

[Tangrowth]

Rico isn't originally from TS right?

What do you mean? This is the first place he played mafia, if that's what you're wondering.

[triceratopzeuhl]

Even if you lynch me today, remaining civvies can still easily win if they listen to me. I'm sort of resigned to the fact that I die every game I ever play (it's why all my victories are as mafia or indy, being alive isn't typically a win condition for them) and even if you don't lynch me, Dom or JJJ will nightkill me before the game is over.

[timmer]

We can still lynch MM, instead

[JaggedJimmyJay]

How is it awful? It's 100% true, in the past day or two JJJ has only chosen to write about people who have first targeted him. Offer an alternative or rebuttal if you think it's not true.

It isn't true in that you've incorrectly stated who I have suspected and also who suspects me (I don't suspect MP and I don't see LoRab suspecting me in those posts you linked -- she can clarify). It's also misrepresentative of the nature of my suspicions to reduce everything to pure "No U"/"OMGUS" when I have been very clear in stating what my grievances are about each of these people across multiple phases of the game. Frankly I don't give a damn about OMGUS anyway. I have voiced suspicion for the reasons I have stated and you haven't discussed those reasons. Instead you've warped them into that pile of links and said I have been "defending myself" too much.

[LoRab]

Dom posting the same way I'm criticizing JJJ and epignosis for - deliberately misleading when not outright lies in their accusations. Wouldn't be surprised if all three are bad, civvies can and do play honest the way virtually everybody else has been

"lies"

I don't know your alignment. I'm trying to figure it out. That's why I put up that eight page dissertation on your posts yesterday. You didn't question my honesty then, when I concluded you look more civilian than not. You may not like every accusation hurled at you, but you're treating all of them in this broadly negative light as though there can be no genuine intentions. That's bunk.

No, what's bunk is you making 2 incredibly disingenuous accusations of me ("everybody knows you can't read vompatti but trice is suspicious for not trying to read vompatti" and "Trice's vote for A Person was suspicious even though I voted the exact same way later for the exact same reasons"). Nobody seriously trying to find baddies would use those arguments.

But still, with how much posting has already occurred in this game, I'm not sure that argument stands. Epig has been correct about 3 out of 3 mislynches here so far.

No he hasn't, he voted to lynch DrWilgy. We don't whether he is right about boomslang's alignment (who we haven't lynched). He has been correct about 2 of them though, and I realize now he has been correct about JJJ consistently for several days now.



My thinking this game has started to be very clear, ironically it was JJJ being legitimately helpful that made it all click:

Vompatti being bad and killed Night 1 could be attributed to the Motherfucker = Redeemer role. Each odd night, one in that pair checks a living player. If the living player is mafia there's a 50% chance it'll kill that mafioso.

This fits too perfectly to not be the case. However, JJJ wouldn't be posting it if he was mafia, so he must be the serial killer. He killed Golden right after Golden switched from a moderate town read of him to posting suspicions. I believe JJJ's posting changed perceptibly at a point, and I wouldn't be surprised if it coincided with the activation of his night kill.

Seriously? Accusitive drivel.

[birdwithteeth11]

Even if you lynch me today, remaining civvies can still easily win if they listen to me. I'm sort of resigned to the fact that I die every game I ever play (it's why all my victories are as mafia or indy, being alive isn't typically a win condition for them) and even if you don't lynch me, Dom or JJJ will nightkill me before the game is over.

Like I stated before, if you can give me a good enough reason to vote MM, then I would be willing to move my vote there.

Or a good enough reason to vote for anyone other than you at all. I have time to go back and re-read stuff right now.

[Tangrowth]

Agh, my brain.

[timmer]

I'd like to ask this one more time, for the people catching up.

Both Epig and MM came out at the start of day under apparent curses. LoRab didn't post until quite a bit later, but also is apparently cursed. That's 3 curses in a single day.

Do you guys feel that all 3 are legit? If yes, why, considering this is a first, and seems excessive... and if not, which one do you think is lying?

I believe LoRab, because falsifying a curse hours after it is obvious there are already two of them would be a bizarre strategy and she wasn't under enough suspicion to warrant such a move, if she were bad.

[Tangrowth]

Trice still seems genuine to me. What am I missing?

[LoRab]

Another point that just occured to me:

Spoiler: show

Motherfucker = Redeemer (2) Do not begin the game by sharing BTSC, but can search for each other during each Night (in addition to their individual ability). Can win as a team, if they gain BTSC. Randomly, one player will be assigned to role check a living player every odd Night. If the checked player is Mafia, it will have a 50% chance to also kill him. The other player will be assigned to role check a dead player every even Night. If the checked victim is Civilian, it will have a 50% chance to resurrect him. Both the kill and the resurrect will be activated automatically and work only once, regardless of the outcome. M=R can continue, however, to role check accordingly afterwards. Their assigned roles can be affected by Storm, once they gain BTSC.

I was wondering why no civs have been resurrected yet, but thinking about it - night 1 nobody dead yet, night 2 powers blocked by Rockets Fall On Rocket Falls, night 3 I bet the half which was assigned dead players wasn't the same player who originally killed vomps, and they checked vomps

Somewhat Asinine Deduction. No Even Sunsets Succeeded.

[Marmot]

Oh Ponderosa, it would be a shame if I were to join you so soon.

I cannot rest until the claws of evil are rendered hitherto inert.

[birdwithteeth11]

Trice still seems genuine to me. What am I missing?

Are you completely caught up yet or not?

[Tangrowth]

I'd like to ask this one more time, for the people catching up.

Both Epig and MM came out at the start of day under apparent curses. LoRab didn't post until quite a bit later, but also is apparently cursed. That's 3 curses in a single day.

Do you guys feel that all 3 are legit? If yes, why, considering this is a first, and seems excessive... and if not, which one do you think is lying?

I believe LoRab, because falsifying a curse hours after it is obvious there are already two of them would be a bizarre strategy and she wasn't under enough suspicion to warrant such a move, if she were bad.

I just got to the point when LoRab started her cursed posts. It seems legit to me.

I'd say MM is lying if anything. Epi's is legit too, just like JJJ's.

[Tangrowth]

Trice still seems genuine to me. What am I missing?

Are you completely caught up yet or not?

No.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

LoRab's word choices keep making me chuckle.

[Tangrowth]

I just got to JJJ's Sloonei ISO.

[triceratopzeuhl]

How is it awful? It's 100% true, in the past day or two JJJ has only chosen to write about people who have first targeted him. Offer an alternative or rebuttal if you think it's not true.

It isn't true in that you've incorrectly stated who I have suspected and also who suspects me (I don't suspect MP and I don't see LoRab suspecting me in those posts you linked -- she can clarify). It's also misrepresentative of the nature of my suspicions to reduce everything to pure "No U"/"OMGUS" when I have been very clear in stating what my grievances are about each of these people across multiple phases of the game. Frankly I don't give a damn about OMGUS anyway. I have voiced suspicion for the reasons I have stated and you haven't discussed those reasons. Instead you've warped them into that pile of links and said I have been "defending myself" too much.

it was based on this

MP -- He was pretty chummy with Vompatti on multiple occasions. I don't know if that means anything, but it's an observation. I'll read MP based upon other content.

and even if you didn't ever suspect MP the point remains identical (all your suspicions posted about you first)

[triceratopzeuhl]

Trice still seems genuine to me. What am I missing?

nothing

[timmer]

Oh Ponderosa, it would be a shame if I were to join you so soon.

I cannot rest until the claws of evil are rendered hitherto inert.

See, this is the thing about MM. Everyone else finds ways to use quotes or what have you to get messages across, while cursed. MM is mostly just writing fluff, even within his requirement to write this fluff. He could be working to sway people, defend himself, but he isn't. He's goofing, just as he kind of goofed his way through the start of the game. I just don't see a civ, here.

[Tangrowth]

I have like an hour to finish catching up in here and Lost Again... and make votes in each. Fuck.

[LoRab]

Despite my beef with epignosis I've realized I MUST be wrong for one reason only:

Spoiler: show

Seeing a different nuanced Epi. Sans suspicion.

I know you will change your mind in a heartbeat. My point is that your most recent read of him is good, and that you only voiced suspicion of him after he claimed you are not a civilian. I do agree that Epignosis has been taciturn on who to lynch this game, but there's still the matter that he has been accurate on his civ-reads, and I believe some of his reads have been well-placed.

Moderate Town:
Epignosis

EPIGNOSIS

Moderate town

(I know there's even more examples but "epi" is too short to search the thread for)

I bet you ANYTHING at least one of these people has role-checked him, especially in a game where his playstyle is so cryptic.

I still think Dom is one of the baddies.

List of other people Golden voiced suspicions of within a day or two of his death: A Person, Dom, Lorab, MM, Sig
List of people Sloonei voiced suspicions of before getting silenced by Sleep: Lorab, Scotty, Dom, INH, DrWilgy

Dom and Lorab are the only names in common there

Sorry. Ain't devious.

[Tangrowth]

Oh, the deadline in Lost Again isn't until over two hours. Thank heavens. I'll stay here until EoD then.

[birdwithteeth11]

Oh Ponderosa, it would be a shame if I were to join you so soon.

I cannot rest until the claws of evil are rendered hitherto inert.

See, this is the thing about MM. Everyone else finds ways to use quotes or what have you to get messages across, while cursed. MM is mostly just writing fluff, even within his requirement to write this fluff. He could be working to sway people, defend himself, but he isn't. He's goofing, just as he kind of goofed his way through the start of the game. I just don't see a civ, here.

Indeed. It's the one thing that would make me switch my vote to MM.

Timmer, GTH, which is more likely to be bad to you: MM or Trice?

[Tangrowth]

I can dig JJJ's Sloonei ISO. I guess what I've been concerned about is his dropoff in contributions, but I'm there right now myself as well, so who knows.

[Tangrowth]

My head is fucking spinning right now. I don't know why I did this to myself. Anyone else want to throw some reads or a rainbow at me? I'll discuss them with you when I get caught up.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

To be fair, I think MM was conveying some kind of reads through his "funeral" talk -- town reading the people he invited and not the people he didn't. He can contest or confirm that.

[timmer]

See, this is the thing about MM. Everyone else finds ways to use quotes or what have you to get messages across, while cursed. MM is mostly just writing fluff, even within his requirement to write this fluff. He could be working to sway people, defend himself, but he isn't. He's goofing, just as he kind of goofed his way through the start of the game. I just don't see a civ, here.

Indeed. It's the one thing that would make me switch my vote to MM.

Timmer, GTH, which is more likely to be bad to you: MM or Trice?[/quote]

MM, atm. I'd def. rather see an MM lynch today. I want to chew over the trice situation a bit more, I feel like there is a small chance part of the posts today that sound suspicious are simply due to him tilting under the glare of the kliegs.

[timmer]

Wow, I screwed those tags up pretty bad.

[Tangrowth]

I'm not following the Moya stuff right now, but tbh I'm not that concerned with it. Someone can explain it to me later.

[birdwithteeth11]

Actually, the last post I can even remember MM making that was content-worthy was the first in this day phase. And even then, that was a very long-winded story (still a good one though!) and ended with him voting JJJ for....general evilness? Not entirely sure.

Linki: MP, I would focus on catching up first and then I will engage more with you. I want to know where your head is after that.

Linki @trice: Yeah, I'm still leaning MM as well. I need more time to think about trice as well, because I wonder if I'm looking at this the wrong way.

[triceratopzeuhl]

MP, the important part is that vompatti was moya

List of other people Golden voiced suspicions of within a day or two of his death: A Person, Dom, Lorab, MM, Sig
List of people Sloonei voiced suspicions of before getting silenced by Sleep: Lorab, Scotty, Dom, INH, DrWilgy

List of people dom has defended or said he thinks are good: Timmer, JJJ, Scotty, BWT, Boomslang, MP, epi

He also defended BWT from JJJ accusations, so you can cross the latter off that list (you can anyway since he's SK not mafia).

Of the above he also leveled accusations of varying degrees at BWT, boomslang and MP on different occasions



Cross referencing with the other two lists I posted, Dom, Lorab, and scotty are the only ones who appear more than once

Hey BWT, are you able to produce some summarized/quick reads for me (whether rainbow or not)? I'm curious where your head is at right now.

Linki: Same question to Trice.

Confident civ: the late Golden, Sloonei, you, me

tentative/probably civ: epignosis, Timmer, MM, sig

Mafia 1: was vompatti
Mafia 2: Dom
Serial Killer: JJJ
Iffy shortlist for Mafia 3: Lorab, scotty, BWT, boomslang

(more info needed): ninja blooper

After I die this is the info the remaining civs need to capitalize on

[timmer]

Also of note, Golden was targeted for death and he was one of the people suspecting and voting MM yesterday.

[nijuukyugou]

I'm going to read what I can, but I'm tired and starving and can only hold out for so long before I pass out. I see trice is getting votes, and am curious why. Still feeling an MM vote carrying over from last Day. Let's see what happens. Back in a flash.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

My head is fucking spinning right now. I don't know why I did this to myself. Anyone else want to throw some reads or a rainbow at me? I'll discuss them with you when I get caught up.

My top suspects at the moment are trice, Scotty, and MM. My suspicion of Epignosis has waned some, primarily because of trice and the fact that they don't look like team mates. I appreciate that LoRab is trying to do something productive with her posts right now. My recent investigations have been mostly positive for sig, Dom, and BWT. I still need to review you as I did Sloonei whenever I have the time and clarity of mind to deal with your post count.

[birdwithteeth11]

Well, Lorab voted for Trice.

And yet, timmer, if we switched our votes to MM, it would tie the vote instead...

Timmer, does that sound more appealing to you any? Because even with how much trice has gone up on my ping-o-meter, MM was still my original suspect for today...

God I'm so torn here lol.

[birdwithteeth11]

Well crud. I misread that. I thought MM had 2 votes already.

Although if he gets a second vote, I will be very tempted to switch my vote.

[timmer]

Well shit man, do whatever you want, I'm ust one guy, lol.

I just see everything pointing to a bad MM and only some parts pointing to a bad trice. But I'm not going to argue against a trice lynch.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm not following the Moya stuff right now, but tbh I'm not that concerned with it. Someone can explain it to me later.

It's pretty simple I think. Sleep was one of the roles that killed Golden. Sleep doesn't have a kill until it has inherited the kill from Moya, who had it first. That doesn't happen until Moya is dead according to what we can see in the role descriptions. This suggests that Moya has died already, and the only player it can really be if so is Vompatti. The Motherfucker = Redeemer role provides an explanation for how a baddie Vompatti could have died on Night 1.

[timmer]

My top suspects at the moment are trice, Scotty, and MM.

Those three don't seem to like that you've said this, considering the poll...

[Marmot]

I'd like to ask this one more time, for the people catching up.

Both Epig and MM came out at the start of day under apparent curses. LoRab didn't post until quite a bit later, but also is apparently cursed. That's 3 curses in a single day.

Do you guys feel that all 3 are legit? If yes, why, considering this is a first, and seems excessive... and if not, which one do you think is lying?

I believe LoRab, because falsifying a curse hours after it is obvious there are already two of them would be a bizarre strategy and she wasn't under enough suspicion to warrant such a move, if she were bad.

I just got to the point when LoRab started her cursed posts. It seems legit to me.

I'd say MM is lying if anything. Epi's is legit too, just like JJJ's.

Fuck you and your sock brethren. I should have know that those who warm the feet of evil humans would let the humans' stench permeate their souls.

If Rosa were here, she'd make a quick lunch out of you.

[Tangrowth]

Just quickly reading through, I see the Trice v. JJJ discussion as, from most to least likely:
1) Town v. Town
2) Mafia v. Mafia
3) Mafia Trice v. Town JJJ
4) Town Trice v. Mafia JJJ

[timmer]

We could at least put MM into second place in the poll, I'm not liking that so many people who are under suspicion are voting for JJJ right now.

[Marmot]

To be fair, I think MM was conveying some kind of reads through his "funeral" talk -- town reading the people he invited and not the people he didn't. He can contest or confirm that.

The marmot-slayer speaketh the truth.

[LoRab]

Who has JJJ suspected today?

Lorab, who posted suspicions of him (1, 2)

Salacious, abominable distortions.

[timmer]

I'll say this, though. If we get to within a few minutes of deadline, and JJJ gets enough votes to contend for being lynched vs trice, I'll move my vote to trice.