A Mafia of Unfortunate Events [END GAME]

[Jackofhearts2005]

Would Olaf be immune to Klaus's role check? The gravedigger seems fairly weak and the conditional double voter, while strong, could give away herself and a teammate if she actually uses the double vote. I consider the roleblocker the best Klaus's target in this mafia.

The other mafia don has SECRETS, potentially protecting her from this power as well as a goon that is semi immune to targeting, also potentially immune to Klaus's check. The punisher and misdirector are better choices, imo, especially the punisher.

I don't care much about the cult leader. I don't see BTSC for them. Aside from causing problems when they approach their win condition and just want to lynch a non cultist (when they don't even know their teammates?), the cult doesn't really seem like a huge threat. I'm willing to entertain alternative opinions on this faction, though, as saying that I don't care about lynching the cult feels wrong to me.

[sprityo]

A general rule of mafia, or st least forum-based mafia I've played, is that cults are 90% a fun killer, so I'm interested to see how it goes

[DFaraday]

Would Olaf be immune to Klaus's role check? The gravedigger seems fairly weak and the conditional double voter, while strong, could give away herself and a teammate if she actually uses the double vote. I consider the roleblocker the best Klaus's target in this mafia.

The other mafia don has SECRETS, potentially protecting her from this power as well as a goon that is semi immune to targeting, also potentially immune to Klaus's check. The punisher and misdirector are better choices, imo, especially the punisher.

I don't care much about the cult leader. I don't see BTSC for them. Aside from causing problems when they approach their win condition and just want to lynch a non cultist (when they don't even know their teammates?), the cult doesn't really seem like a huge threat. I'm willing to entertain alternative opinions on this faction, though, as saying that I don't care about lynching the cult feels wrong to me.

Olaf is only immune to role checks. Technically Klaus' ability is a player check, and thus would work on Olaf.

All cult members have BTSC. It's how I've always run cults.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Thanks, DF.

Same for me, usually, but I didn't want to assume.

Would the cult vanillaize its recruits? Can mafia members be cultified?

[DFaraday]

Thanks, DF.

Same for me, usually, but I didn't want to assume.

Would the cult vanillaize its recruits? Can mafia members be cultified?

All players are recruitable, and still retain all abilities, as well as any BTSC they started with. Kills remain with the team, so if a cult-recruited baddie's mafia teammates are all dead or recruited, the team is eliminated and that player does not have a kill.

[Scotty]

Thanks, DF.

Same for me, usually, but I didn't want to assume.

Would the cult vanillaize its recruits? Can mafia members be cultified?

All players are recruitable, and still retain all abilities, as well as any BTSC they started with. Kills remain with the team, so if a cult-recruited baddie's mafia teammates are all dead or recruited, the team is eliminated and that player does not have a kill.

Now that is an interesting thing. After night 1, of you have BTSC with someone, you might be talking with a double agent the next day. Sucks for you!

[Scotty]

Also- Elo, if you are the recruiter again, feel free to recruit me night 1 like last time. It seems to be a winning combo

[Dom]

Uhhh

ishmael, given those recent revelations is a huge threat.

[sig]

Uhhh

ishmael, given those recent revelations is a huge threat.

ishmael is the biggest threat, now this might get me some shit, but hey mafia do us a favor and gun for ishmael why don't ya? It is mutually beneficial to eliminate him and the cult for both teams, especially since baddies can be recruited.

Nacho the role would only be broken if we allowed info dumping, without that and role hinting it isn't super strong.

[sig]

Also- Elo, if you are the recruiter again, feel free to recruit me night 1 like last time. It seems to be a winning combo

Having said that


Ishmael feel free to recruit me, switching sides is always fun. :P

[Marmot]

Zebra, Faraday, Long Con, Snow Dog, and you. I think those are the only ones in that game that were here discussing the subject. I will table my thoughts on Snow Dog and try to give him a fresh start in my book. I do seriously hate I wasted all that time on it though. I wasn't even going to read all those pages. I was just going to skim through as Day 0 is usually just fluff. But then it seemed important and noteworthy, so I read and commented, read and commented. Waste.

Where was Faraday discussing this?

Derp.

Was he discussing it in B T S C???????????????

lol

I don't understand.

[Marmot]

Ishmael! Do not recruit me please.

[sprityo]

Do not recruit the marmot, he is too powerful

[Elohcin]

Zebra, Faraday, Long Con, Snow Dog, and you. I think those are the only ones in that game that were here discussing the subject. I will table my thoughts on Snow Dog and try to give him a fresh start in my book. I do seriously hate I wasted all that time on it though. I wasn't even going to read all those pages. I was just going to skim through as Day 0 is usually just fluff. But then it seemed important and noteworthy, so I read and commented, read and commented. Waste.

Where was Faraday discussing this?

Derp.

Was he discussing it in B T S C???????????????

Possibly

[Long Con]

Uhhh

ishmael, given those recent revelations is a huge threat.

Explain... sounds like he could recruit baddies and help finish the game earlier in the Civs favour. I guess it works in reverse if he recruits Civs?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Zebra, Faraday, Long Con, Snow Dog, and you. I think those are the only ones in that game that were here discussing the subject. I will table my thoughts on Snow Dog and try to give him a fresh start in my book. I do seriously hate I wasted all that time on it though. I wasn't even going to read all those pages. I was just going to skim through as Day 0 is usually just fluff. But then it seemed important and noteworthy, so I read and commented, read and commented. Waste.

Where was Faraday discussing this?

Derp.

Was he discussing it in B T S C???????????????

lol

I don't understand.

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/side-eyeing-chloe

The image is basically short for "Could you fucking not?"

[Jackofhearts2005]

Uhhh

ishmael, given those recent revelations is a huge threat.

Explain... sounds like he could recruit baddies and help finish the game earlier in the Civs favour. I guess it works in reverse if he recruits Civs?

Mirrors my thoughts.

Could put us in the awkward situation where the cult and the town are the only groups left plus one scummer so that cult suddenly is motivated to not lynch the last scum.....then the entire cult disappears (I guess?) and the town kills the last scummer.

I mean, basically, this type of cult appears to be a super delayed serial killer that misses 50% of the time or if anyone else kills his targets in the next 1-6 phases. Plus he only has to "kill" half the other players instead of all of them and if he "kills" the last scum player, they die instantly instead of on a delay.

Overall, I'm not understanding the "Ishmael is a huge threat" thought process. He's a pretty freaking weak cult leader.

[Marmot]

The image is basically short for "Could you fucking not?"

I've always assumed that Quin's avatar was a relative of his...

[Elohcin]

The image is basically short for "Could you fucking not?"

I've always assumed that Quin's avatar was a relative of his...

me too!

[Golden]

Quin's been pantsed!

I shall never look at him with side-eye the same way again. But at least I'm glad that he's going to Disneyland.

I'm totally phoning this in, but I haven't read much yet. I intend to today, so apologies in advance for me commenting on things that may have already passed others by.

[sig]

Uhhh

ishmael, given those recent revelations is a huge threat.

Explain... sounds like he could recruit baddies and help finish the game earlier in the Civs favour. I guess it works in reverse if he recruits Civs?

He could recruit baddies yes, which hurts them. However they also need to be the largest team and he only has a 50% shot at recruiting people. So Ishmael would in theory be actively working agaisnt the civs since we're the largest faction and he needs most of us dead to win.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Uhhh

ishmael, given those recent revelations is a huge threat.

Explain... sounds like he could recruit baddies and help finish the game earlier in the Civs favour. I guess it works in reverse if he recruits Civs?

He could recruit baddies yes, which hurts them. However they also need to be the largest team and he only has a 50% shot at recruiting people. So Ishmael would in theory be actively working agaisnt the civs since we're the largest faction and he needs most of us dead to win.

Does not compute.

A dead townie or a dead mafia member both reduce total players by 1.

A recruited townie or a recruited mafia member both reduce non cult players by 1 and increase cult players by 1.

The math is the same. The only reason the cult would have to specifically work against the town is if the town is about to eliminate the last scummer, ending the game early and causing the cult to auto lose.

[Quin]

Quin's been pantsed!

I shall never look at him with side-eye the same way again. But at least I'm glad that he's going to Disneyland.

I'm totally phoning this in, but I haven't read much yet. I intend to today, so apologies in advance for me commenting on things that may have already passed others by.

[DrWilgy]

I died in haiku mafia :P

Time to catch up.

[sprityo]

It's too bad the entire cult doesn't die once ishmael is dead, that would make it fun

[sprityo]

I guess that begs the question, what happens to the cult members once Ishmael is dead? Do they revert back to their original sides?

[sig]

Uhhh

ishmael, given those recent revelations is a huge threat.

Explain... sounds like he could recruit baddies and help finish the game earlier in the Civs favour. I guess it works in reverse if he recruits Civs?

He could recruit baddies yes, which hurts them. However they also need to be the largest team and he only has a 50% shot at recruiting people. So Ishmael would in theory be actively working agaisnt the civs since we're the largest faction and he needs most of us dead to win.

Does not compute.

A dead townie or a dead mafia member both reduce total players by 1.

A recruited townie or a recruited mafia member both reduce non cult players by 1 and increase cult players by 1.

The math is the same. The only reason the cult would have to specifically work against the town is if the town is about to eliminate the last scummer, ending the game early and causing the cult to auto lose.

[sig]

the second part of that message was it is more likely for civs to be hurt by the cult then mafia.

[Long Con]

the second part of that message was it is more likely for civs to be hurt by the cult then mafia.

Because there ARE more Civs than Mafia?

[sig]

the second part of that message was it is more likely for civs to be hurt by the cult then mafia.

Because there ARE more Civs than Mafia?

Ugh Yeah that message cut off to.


Since there are many more civs then mafia members the chances of a cult leader hunting the civvies is much higher, they also will most likely not be attempting to solve the game. Now I'm not saying we shouldn't go after mafia members, but we shouldn't ignore the cult either.

[Spacedaisy]

Ok, so I read everything. I voted east because I wanted to and am satisfied to see it winning.

That was a lot of pages of discussing Snow Dog's statement about not reading his role card. I thought not reading one's role card would be a foolish personal decision but it wouldn't be a scum tell in my mind. And I didn't find anything particularly useful in the back and forth to help identify any scum either, it seemed a lot more about playstyle influenced conversation than anyone trying to manipulate anything. I think the people who we should look at are probably the people who were reading it and not commenting or committing to any stance. They are the ones much more likely to be scum, because scum love letting civs go after each other over stupid playstyle arguments, it saves them a lot of work.

Just my two cents. Going to work now. Third shift, fun fun fun...

[LoRab]

To add onto your role analysis, LC - Klaus's role doesn't mention any restrictions as to when he can use his role. Just how many times he can use it. Unless he's a risk taker, I'd recommend that he figure out what he wants to do early so as to not waste an opportunity.

Klaus: Do not throw away your shot.

(sorry--saw hamilton tonight...so, that was all I was hearing in my head with this)

Voting east it has Philadelphia and me, so its the best part of the country. (Just ignore that we also have DC and NYC on the east coast) ;P

Ok then, maybe some role analysis will be fun!

Violet Baudelaire – Violet is a brilliant inventor. She will create a new device every night and send it to a player of her choice. This looks very fun, I wonder if she can have full creative input about the device? I know we could think of some very useful devices. How about a device that, in addition to its primary purpose, also feeds info back to Violet about the user? Just one idea. Push the boundaries, Violet!

Klaus Baudelaire – Klaus loves to read, and is constantly learning. Twice in the game Klaus can send in a role and discover which player has that role. Reverse role-checker. Let's talk, people - which role would be most beneficial for Klaus to know? Should he learn who are powerful Civvies in order to form a super-Civ squad? Or automatically discover, like, the two baddie team leaders and watch them for a while before pushing their lynch?

Ishmael – Ishmael is the leader of a peaceful island community. Every night he will attempt to recruit a player. He will have a 50% chance of bringing them into his fold. Ishmael's team will win if they outnumber the other living players at any point. He will also survive the first NK and lynch attempt on his life. Another possible foil for catching Esme Squalor. Do we want Ishmael dead? If Ishmael's team wins, does everyone else lose and the game ends? Or do they just achieve their win condition and we keep going?

I agree on the Violet role, it looks like it has potential if used properly.
I think Klaus looking at a high powered civ and a high powered baddie would be beneficial. At the very least investigate Olaf, since he can't be cop checked. So it will give the civs an edge.
Ishmael is dangerous we want him gone, he is basically a cult leader who can steal players from the civs, I assume it will only work on civvies and not mafia members, like most roles that can recruit. I'd say the bottom line is he needs enough civs dead or converted to win, so he won't be trying to help anyone win but himself or might even align with the mafia.

I agree about Philadelphia, as that is the closest actual city to me. (Althought I love other cities, too...but Philly is a great place).

I also agree about the potential of the Violet role. And that Klaus has great potential, as well.

I disagree about the threat of Ishmael (and continue to disagree with your assessment in later posts). I get where you are coming from, but I don't see him as a major threat. He shouldn't be ignored--but he's not nearly as much of a priority as mafia. And I'd argue that the VFD are a bigger threat. And, depending on who has the Olivia role, that is also a potential threat.

Klaus role seems insanely broken but I don't see why he would do anything except investigate two baddies.

Why broken? I think it's kind of a cool twist on a checking role.

Also, since there have now been several suggestions of how Klaus could use his role, I think there are many reasons why one would use that role in a variety of ways. Why pressure him into using it in a particular way? And in a way that wouldn't necessarily be to the civ's best advantage.

Uhhh

ishmael, given those recent revelations is a huge threat.

I don't really agree.

[Dom]

LoRab, why are the VFD a bigger thread than Ishmael?

[DFaraday]

Sorry for the delay (I was watching LOST with people who've never seen it). Post coming shortly.

[DFaraday]

The Daunting Direction

The fire which presented itself in the previous chapter was presently proving to be a clear and present danger, an expression often used when a danger is so clear it doesn't need an expression to prove its presence. Presently, the group moved inland to escape the fire, soon finding themselves outside the local horseradish factory.

"We should continue inland!" said one picnic attendee. "Since the danger was at the beach, the safest place to be is anywhere the beach isn't!"

As nobody had the time, energy, or sticks to poke a hole in this argument, the decision was made to venture east towards Lousy Lane, following that dangerous road until help presented itself clearly.

It is now Day 1. You have 48 hours to lynch someone.

[LoRab]

LoRab, why are the VFD a bigger thread than Ishmael?

Because of my natural distrust of purely neutral roles, especially when it's a 2 person neutral team that just has to survive to win. You've known me long enough to know how I feel about this (and to know that it's because of how may have once played such a role to win the game for the mafia). Also, they have a block and a protect to use every night.

Ishmael's team has a 50% chance of recruiting each night, and at least early on, it's kind of a crap shoot what roles they get. At the start, it's 13 civs to recruit v 8 baddies v 3 neutral (he can't recruit himself). So, almost even odds of getting a non-civ than a civ. It, in part, depends on who the first successful recruit is.

In all, it may likely have more to do with my innate prejudicial suspicion towards neutral roles than anything else.

[a2thezebra]

[Dom]

LoRab, why are the VFD a bigger thread than Ishmael?

Because of my natural distrust of purely neutral roles, especially when it's a 2 person neutral team that just has to survive to win. You've known me long enough to know how I feel about this (and to know that it's because of how may have once played such a role to win the game for the mafia). Also, they have a block and a protect to use every night.

Ishmael's team has a 50% chance of recruiting each night, and at least early on, it's kind of a crap shoot what roles they get. At the start, it's 13 civs to recruit v 8 baddies v 3 neutral (he can't recruit himself). So, almost even odds of getting a non-civ than a civ. It, in part, depends on who the first successful recruit is.

In all, it may likely have more to do with my innate prejudicial suspicion towards neutral roles than anything else.

I know about this natural distrust.
I thought you'd attribute some level of distrust to Ishamel for this reason as well.

[Long Con]

LoRab, why are the VFD a bigger thread than Ishmael?

Because of my natural distrust of purely neutral roles, especially when it's a 2 person neutral team that just has to survive to win. You've known me long enough to know how I feel about this (and to know that it's because of how may have once played such a role to win the game for the mafia). Also, they have a block and a protect to use every night.

Ishmael's team has a 50% chance of recruiting each night, and at least early on, it's kind of a crap shoot what roles they get. At the start, it's 13 civs to recruit v 8 baddies v 3 neutral (he can't recruit himself). So, almost even odds of getting a non-civ than a civ. It, in part, depends on who the first successful recruit is.

In all, it may likely have more to do with my innate prejudicial suspicion towards neutral roles than anything else.

I would say that the threat of Ishmael to the Civs has been vastly overstated. Heck, given the majority of past games, we'll probably end up lynching a Civ today and practically evening the score between Civs and non-Civs before Ishmael even gets a chance to try.

Which role was that, LoRab? I recall my own neutral roles better than others. I do remember one special role that just begged me to betray everyone and grab power and win. I was the Jedi Exile:


Revanchists (4):
The Revanchists are a small group of Jedi who believe it would be better for the Jedi Order to get involved in the war and protect the Republic from the Mandalorians. They have BTSC and get one kill per "night."
Revan - The only thing stronger than the force in this jedi knight is his willpower. If any of the Revanchists are lynched, he will kill one of the people who voted for them.

Alek Squinquargesimus - Second in command of the Revanchists.

Jedi Exile - Not much is known about this young jedi, but she or he will start out powerless and gain abilities as the game progresses.

Powers will be gained pending the survival of each night for the first four nights and are as follows:

1. A secret, extra vote for each voting period.
2. One pardon to be used on any person on any day.
3. The ability to deflect one's night power onto another person.
4. The ability to kill... with a catch: The Exile must kill his or her fellow Jedi before being allowed to kill others and will assume the role usually referred to as the "serial killer." If the Jedi Exile chooses not to kill his or her team mates and assume this win condition, then all of his or her powers will be forfeited.

Arren Kae - After being exiled from the Jedi Order, she has decided to join her former apprentice, Revan, in the fight against the Mandalorians.

How could I NOT kill my teammates and go rogue? Good times. Pretty sure my abilities were secret while the game was in play.

[Marmot]

Flying today to Cincinnati, so I may be around, we'll see.

[Dom]

LoRab, why are the VFD a bigger thread than Ishmael?

Because of my natural distrust of purely neutral roles, especially when it's a 2 person neutral team that just has to survive to win. You've known me long enough to know how I feel about this (and to know that it's because of how may have once played such a role to win the game for the mafia). Also, they have a block and a protect to use every night.

Ishmael's team has a 50% chance of recruiting each night, and at least early on, it's kind of a crap shoot what roles they get. At the start, it's 13 civs to recruit v 8 baddies v 3 neutral (he can't recruit himself). So, almost even odds of getting a non-civ than a civ. It, in part, depends on who the first successful recruit is.

In all, it may likely have more to do with my innate prejudicial suspicion towards neutral roles than anything else.

I would say that the threat of Ishmael to the Civs has been vastly overstated. Heck, given the majority of past games, we'll probably end up lynching a Civ today and practically evening the score between Civs and non-Civs before Ishmael even gets a chance to try.

Which role was that, LoRab? I recall my own neutral roles better than others. I do remember one special role that just begged me to betray everyone and grab power and win. I was the Jedi Exile:


Revanchists (4):
The Revanchists are a small group of Jedi who believe it would be better for the Jedi Order to get involved in the war and protect the Republic from the Mandalorians. They have BTSC and get one kill per "night."
Revan - The only thing stronger than the force in this jedi knight is his willpower. If any of the Revanchists are lynched, he will kill one of the people who voted for them.

Alek Squinquargesimus - Second in command of the Revanchists.

Jedi Exile - Not much is known about this young jedi, but she or he will start out powerless and gain abilities as the game progresses.

Powers will be gained pending the survival of each night for the first four nights and are as follows:

1. A secret, extra vote for each voting period.
2. One pardon to be used on any person on any day.
3. The ability to deflect one's night power onto another person.
4. The ability to kill... with a catch: The Exile must kill his or her fellow Jedi before being allowed to kill others and will assume the role usually referred to as the "serial killer." If the Jedi Exile chooses not to kill his or her team mates and assume this win condition, then all of his or her powers will be forfeited.

Arren Kae - After being exiled from the Jedi Order, she has decided to join her former apprentice, Revan, in the fight against the Mandalorians.

How could I NOT kill my teammates and go rogue? Good times. Pretty sure my abilities were secret while the game was in play.

I believe she is talking about Heroes Mafia.

[Epignosis]

Ok, so I read everything. I voted east because I wanted to and am satisfied to see it winning.

That was a lot of pages of discussing Snow Dog's statement about not reading his role card. I thought not reading one's role card would be a foolish personal decision but it wouldn't be a scum tell in my mind. And I didn't find anything particularly useful in the back and forth to help identify any scum either, it seemed a lot more about playstyle influenced conversation than anyone trying to manipulate anything. I think the people who we should look at are probably the people who were reading it and not commenting or committing to any stance. They are the ones much more likely to be scum, because scum love letting civs go after each other over stupid playstyle arguments, it saves them a lot of work.

Just my two cents. Going to work now. Third shift, fun fun fun...

Spacedaisy's point of view here mirrors my own.

[Long Con]

Ok, so I read everything. I voted east because I wanted to and am satisfied to see it winning.

That was a lot of pages of discussing Snow Dog's statement about not reading his role card. I thought not reading one's role card would be a foolish personal decision but it wouldn't be a scum tell in my mind. And I didn't find anything particularly useful in the back and forth to help identify any scum either, it seemed a lot more about playstyle influenced conversation than anyone trying to manipulate anything. I think the people who we should look at are probably the people who were reading it and not commenting or committing to any stance. They are the ones much more likely to be scum, because scum love letting civs go after each other over stupid playstyle arguments, it saves them a lot of work.

Just my two cents. Going to work now. Third shift, fun fun fun...

Spacedaisy's point of view here mirrors my own.

So, who are those people? One counterpoint I would make is that it was just Day 0, so it's not as strong a viewpoint as it would be were it a later, meatier game day.

[LoRab]

I know about this natural distrust.
I thought you'd attribute some level of distrust to Ishamel for this reason as well.

It's also colored my opinion of the characters and their actions in the books, and the assumption that DF created a game that is true to the source material.

LoRab, why are the VFD a bigger thread than Ishmael?

Because of my natural distrust of purely neutral roles, especially when it's a 2 person neutral team that just has to survive to win. You've known me long enough to know how I feel about this (and to know that it's because of how may have once played such a role to win the game for the mafia). Also, they have a block and a protect to use every night.

Ishmael's team has a 50% chance of recruiting each night, and at least early on, it's kind of a crap shoot what roles they get. At the start, it's 13 civs to recruit v 8 baddies v 3 neutral (he can't recruit himself). So, almost even odds of getting a non-civ than a civ. It, in part, depends on who the first successful recruit is.

In all, it may likely have more to do with my innate prejudicial suspicion towards neutral roles than anything else.

I would say that the threat of Ishmael to the Civs has been vastly overstated. Heck, given the majority of past games, we'll probably end up lynching a Civ today and practically evening the score between Civs and non-Civs before Ishmael even gets a chance to try.

Which role was that, LoRab? I recall my own neutral roles better than others. I do remember one special role that just begged me to betray everyone and grab power and win. I was the Jedi Exile:


Revanchists (4):
The Revanchists are a small group of Jedi who believe it would be better for the Jedi Order to get involved in the war and protect the Republic from the Mandalorians. They have BTSC and get one kill per "night."
Revan - The only thing stronger than the force in this jedi knight is his willpower. If any of the Revanchists are lynched, he will kill one of the people who voted for them.

Alek Squinquargesimus - Second in command of the Revanchists.

Jedi Exile - Not much is known about this young jedi, but she or he will start out powerless and gain abilities as the game progresses.

Powers will be gained pending the survival of each night for the first four nights and are as follows:

1. A secret, extra vote for each voting period.
2. One pardon to be used on any person on any day.
3. The ability to deflect one's night power onto another person.
4. The ability to kill... with a catch: The Exile must kill his or her fellow Jedi before being allowed to kill others and will assume the role usually referred to as the "serial killer." If the Jedi Exile chooses not to kill his or her team mates and assume this win condition, then all of his or her powers will be forfeited.

Arren Kae - After being exiled from the Jedi Order, she has decided to join her former apprentice, Revan, in the fight against the Mandalorians.

How could I NOT kill my teammates and go rogue? Good times. Pretty sure my abilities were secret while the game was in play.

I remember that game well, also. I believed you savagely killed my partner and I after you killed your own teammates in that game. We were going to let you live, too. But I was talking about Heroes. I was Arthur and recruited Bea who was Nathan, if memory serves. The game was down to the final lynch, the civs were being quite arrogant about having the game in the bag One civ in particular was being especially arrogant, to the point that it just wasn't nice, and was so proud of himself for having played the game so well so that he had won the game. And so Bea and I decided (or I suggested and Bea went along with my zany plan) to vote against the civs so that the baddies won the game. Proving once again that spreadsheets and matrices alone do not make or break a game of mafia.

[Epignosis]

Ok, so I read everything. I voted east because I wanted to and am satisfied to see it winning.

That was a lot of pages of discussing Snow Dog's statement about not reading his role card. I thought not reading one's role card would be a foolish personal decision but it wouldn't be a scum tell in my mind. And I didn't find anything particularly useful in the back and forth to help identify any scum either, it seemed a lot more about playstyle influenced conversation than anyone trying to manipulate anything. I think the people who we should look at are probably the people who were reading it and not commenting or committing to any stance. They are the ones much more likely to be scum, because scum love letting civs go after each other over stupid playstyle arguments, it saves them a lot of work.

Just my two cents. Going to work now. Third shift, fun fun fun...

Spacedaisy's point of view here mirrors my own.

So, who are those people?

There are many such people. However, it helps to remove some of the names from consideration for Day 1. New Jack City losing his shit over Snow Dog strikes me as earnest and genuine, for instance (plus I wouldn't vote for him today anyway). Did either Mafia really think no one was going to come in (like I did) and explain the Island Monkey business and show that Snow Dog shouldn't be lynched Day 1 for such a ludicrous reason? Of course they didn't. I will thus likely be voting someone who stood on the sidelines while that uproar was taking place rather than vote for one of the combatants.

MM stirred the pot on Snow Dog and then left it to boil. MM was on Monkey Island, so I question his reaction to Snow Dog's little joke.

One counterpoint I would make is that it was just Day 0, so it's not as strong a viewpoint as it would be were it a later, meatier game day.

What exactly is not as strong a viewpoint?

[Long Con]

What exactly is not as strong a viewpoint?

I mean, it was a shallow debate to begin with... discussing the various factors involved with someone not reading their role PM. 'Stronger' would be about voting records, accusations, rainbow lists, interaction-analysis... when people are discussing those kinds of things, looking at those who dance around having a stance is something that I agree with. Not commenting on the Snow Dog thing overly much is not as red flaggable to me.

I see your point about MM. As someone who was also in Monkey Island, I don't think it was such a bad thing to watch and see what reactions came of it - better than jumping in and saying "Hold on y'all, it was a joke based on Wilgy's Monkey Island play!", but worse than discussing something that moves the game forward more. As I said before, though, I don't expect much to come from it.

I think it was Snow Dog's responsibility to decide when it was time to reveal the truth, since he's the one that planted the seed.

[Snow Dog]

What exactly is not as strong a viewpoint?

I mean, it was a shallow debate to begin with... discussing the various factors involved with someone not reading their role PM. 'Stronger' would be about voting records, accusations, rainbow lists, interaction-analysis... when people are discussing those kinds of things, looking at those who dance around having a stance is something that I agree with. Not commenting on the Snow Dog thing overly much is not as red flaggable to me.

I see your point about MM. As someone who was also in Monkey Island, I don't think it was such a bad thing to watch and see what reactions came of it - better than jumping in and saying "Hold on y'all, it was a joke based on Wilgy's Monkey Island play!", but worse than discussing something that moves the game forward more. As I said before, though, I don't expect much to come from it.

I think it was Snow Dog's responsibility to decide when it was time to reveal the truth, since he's the one that planted the seed.

And I did, as soon as I was able.

[soup]

whoa sorry I am late, going to catch up when I get off work

[Golden]

I've just had to endure a week of near heat-wave temperatures and as a consequence of my now oft-repeated threats to move to Tasmania to escape this intolerable Queensland heat, I'm voting south!

I'm glad its our year to be in NZ for christmas. I don't feel the need for Australian summer heat right now.

[Golden]

In response to some of those early posts (sorry, working through my catchup):

Snow Dog appears to be referencing Monkey Island to me. I think he read his role and I don't find it suspicious that he claimed not to have. It's just funny.

As for 'janitored by default' - if you grew up in the tradition of STV/Lostpedia/Piano/RM, you would understand why baddies would never have won without it. So much potential info floating out there. Role madness games were chock full of all sorts of advantages for town built in - part of the fun (and balance) for baddies is trying to work out who has what role (open setups) and take out important ones that have info on them without it blowing back in their faces.

It's very different to what people are used to for sure, but it isn't inherently unbalanced. You just have to construct it with different sensitivities.

We have all sorts of games here on TS but Faraday's game (nearly every role fully revealed, info roles, non-changeable votes, and no nightkill reveals) is getting a true insight into the mafia heritage of many of us here.

Oh, and part of your job, if you can do it, is to fill in the gaps. Sure, no-one can infodump, and you miss info my having nightkills not flip, but I've solved who sits in every role (or nearly every role) in games like this plenty of times. Things stop happening as people die, and you may well be able to sheet home roles to nightkilled players. It's a game that makes you have to work a little bit harder, but it can be amazingly rewarding if you actually solve stuff.