A Mafia of Unfortunate Events [END GAME]

[Nachomamma8]

I hope that Epi's scum game is half as good as he says it is!!

Why exactly would you wish this, if you were town? You can like a challenge but in the end its a competition where you want to emerge victorious, there is no well-wishing to be had.

I assume he hopes that Epi is bad at being scum, in case he has to play against a scum Epi. Not a super sincere case of well-wishing.

I enjoy people who play the game at high levels; I enjoy learning and improving in this game and I haven't found a way to do so better than getting absolutely trashed by people who are better at the game at me.

Soneji, why did you think that this was scummy of me? Do you think that I would be publicly wishing that my scum partner's scum game was up to snuff; why wouldnt I just keep it to myself or the QT?

[Nachomamma8]

My posting yesterday was fairly fluffy, sure. I was in a fluffy mood.

[Nachomamma8]

The easy route doesn't allow you to paint people as scum. For all the angles Zebra expects DDL and Jack to have considered, at a time when no decision or claim can even be close to final, she overlooks angles herself like culture clash and approaches their statements as definitive in terms of Snow Dog being their day one lynch.

I'll be voting Zebra for now.

Their statements were incredibly definitive. DDL said Snow Dog should either be policy lynched if not lying or, if lying, there was a 99% chance of being bad.

JoH listed three possibilities, truthful scum, truthful town, lying scum, but did not consider lying town. That's not 'all the angles zebra expects them to consider'. It was one - and a pretty blatant one at that. It's not hard to look at that list and see JoH as potentially deliberately not considering one option.

Zebra did not (although others did) expect them to consider the 'it's just day zero banter, referencing monkey island' angle, which might be what you would call 'culture clash'. By the way, DDL has been at this site nearly as long as me, and he's an ambassador, so I hardly think his views can be construed as 'culture clash'. He knows what to expect.

And in all of that, I did not see zebra rushing to call either Jack or DDL as scum. She just engaged them in a dialogue about why their perspective was limiting (which it was). I haven't really got a sense of how firmly Jack or DDL have stuck to their guns yet since I haven't finished a catchup, but I'd hope that they'd listen to the many people who (correctly) identified that Snow Dog was referencing Monkey Island.

Also, votes are permanent, so forget 'for now'... you voted zebra.

This is the most suspicious thing I've seen. It's incredibly misrepresentative of what occurred, and it's just a bizarre vote, almost like 'I'm voting zebra because I also experience culture clash at this site, and zebra doesn't seem to consider that'. I'm going to be strongly considering a vote for soneji.

The point of the early vote is the one that stands out to me the most; I read the Soneji post and reasoning as I understand it with my limited time seems to be something along the lines of "Zebra didn't interpret Snow Dog's vote as a joke when everyone else did" and "Zebra didn't account for culture clash" and seems to be fairly nonsensical reasons for voting.

[Nachomamma8]

Klaus role seems insanely broken but I don't see why he would do anything except investigate two baddies.

It would be insanely broken if you could infodump or if nightkills weren't immediately janitored - as it is, he could use both on baddies and we might never figure it out if he doesn't play it carefully.

Here is a civilian Klaus might look for - Hal.

I think my vote is against Klaus looking for Hal now

Having knowledge of two baddies and pushing to lynch two baddies seems much stronger than finding a civ and trying to protect them especially considering the no info dumping rule.

[Nachomamma8]

Klaus role seems insanely broken but I don't see why he would do anything except investigate two baddies.

It would be insanely broken if you could infodump or if nightkills weren't immediately janitored - as it is, he could use both on baddies and we might never figure it out if he doesn't play it carefully.

Here is a civilian Klaus might look for - Hal.

This exact dilemma has always made me pause in the no-info-dumping games. If I were in that position I'm not sure what I would do- I haven't yet had a role that I could do that, but I'm nervous in case I ever get it- I dunno if I would constantly go after the found Olaf in hopes that I will be some kamikaze and be lynched, thus making it glaringly obvious that the player I was jumping on is Olaf, or attempt to sprinkle on subtle suspicions over time, but not making it clear that he is bad. Either way, it's all down to making sure you don't get NK'd too early.

Good thing I'm not that role this game. But I intend to study the posts made by both Hal and Klaus once the game ends and I know who you all are, because I'm sure you'll do a great job.

Seems smart just to go all out against him once you find him; that makes sure that town gets the message and trading your life for that of a baddie's (especially with a doctor in the mix) seems like the play to make unless it's against the rules which I don't think it is.

[Nachomamma8]

On a vaguely related note, I'm liking Scotty a lot more this game; he feels like he's more natural, less on edge this game (like his "I know you'll do a good job!" post doesn't seem like something that would come from Monkey Island Scotty.

[Nachomamma8]

I randomised and voted DDL, k?

Whether or not this vote was random or not, I disliked it - Snow Dog didnt seem the type to throw his vote around weakly like this and Luffy is a name that's been tossed around plenty as a possible lynch.

[Snow Dog]

I randomised and voted DDL, k?

Whether or not this vote was random or not, I disliked it - Snow Dog didnt seem the type to throw his vote around weakly like this and Luffy is a name that's been tossed around plenty as a possible lynch.

It's a shame you dislike it. I don't really care though. I likes it.

[Soneji]

I hope that Epi's scum game is half as good as he says it is!!

Why exactly would you wish this, if you were town? You can like a challenge but in the end its a competition where you want to emerge victorious, there is no well-wishing to be had.

I assume he hopes that Epi is bad at being scum, in case he has to play against a scum Epi. Not a super sincere case of well-wishing.

I enjoy people who play the game at high levels; I enjoy learning and improving in this game and I haven't found a way to do so better than getting absolutely trashed by people who are better at the game at me.

Soneji, why did you think that this was scummy of me? Do you think that I would be publicly wishing that my scum partner's scum game was up to snuff; why wouldnt I just keep it to myself or the QT?

Its not really so easy as that. Do I think you posted that with the thought in your head of putting yourself as seriously well-wishing him? No. That doesn't even have to be the "motive", could be that you are scum and he is not to your knowledge. When people are fluffing they tend to let their guard down at times under the assumption that people won't look as much into what they say, so I thought it worth pursuing to question you on it to see your reaction.

While I may have been mafia in the Monkey Island game, my posts on mindsets in terms of scumslips were genuine.

[Nachomamma8]

@Golden : You are misunderstanding why I voted Zebra. It has nothing to do with sympathy for JoH, I am not sure how you got that impression when I didn't compare the two of us or mention myself as having culture clash in those posts. My vote went to Zebra as I saw her interaction with DDL and JoH as being a forced "gotcha" where she puts forth Snow Dog's claim of not reading his role as mafia bait that they bit on.

My earlier post was based on skimming the discussion. I reread things in full now that it is D1 and found other factors that changed my view.

My default mindset is changeable votes.

I don't get the forced "gotcha" thing but I'll guess I'll come back to this later.

[Dom]

Hi guys--

I've fallen ill again. I'm hoping to be better by the holidays, but I am very fatigued right now. Forgive me, O Mafia players.

Having just been on a baddie team with Sorsha in Lost Again, I'm not seeing the same thing from her here. I am leaning civ on her at the moment.

Do we think this logic holds?
I don't.
Go read Sorsha in Lost Again and tell me if you really think that matters in comparison to this game.
Four options:
-SD and Sorsha are baddies together
-SD and Sorsha are civvies together.
-SD and Sorsha are on opposing sides.
-indys involved

I voted sprityo to break the tie between him and DDL. I didn't get a chance to look at sprityo, nor DDL for that matter. But y'all left me to break a tie, so

Here's a list of players who missed the vote (including sprityo).

• Dom
  DrWilgy
  Elohcin
  Epignosis
  Glorfindel
  LoRab
  Marco
  Nachomamma8
  soup
  sprityo

I would like to point out (for the record) my friend that I did not 'miss' the vote. I deliberately withheld mine. I was faced with a choice between two players of which I was unwilling to support either.

...this is not true. You had plenty of other options.

And there you go... vindicated again!

Smug doesn't fit you.
Which baddie team are you on?

[Nachomamma8]

I hope that Epi's scum game is half as good as he says it is!!

Why exactly would you wish this, if you were town? You can like a challenge but in the end its a competition where you want to emerge victorious, there is no well-wishing to be had.

I assume he hopes that Epi is bad at being scum, in case he has to play against a scum Epi. Not a super sincere case of well-wishing.

I enjoy people who play the game at high levels; I enjoy learning and improving in this game and I haven't found a way to do so better than getting absolutely trashed by people who are better at the game at me.

Soneji, why did you think that this was scummy of me? Do you think that I would be publicly wishing that my scum partner's scum game was up to snuff; why wouldnt I just keep it to myself or the QT?

Its not really so easy as that. Do I think you posted that with the thought in your head of putting yourself as seriously well-wishing him? No. That doesn't even have to be the "motive", could be that you are scum and he is not to your knowledge. When people are fluffing they tend to let their guard down at times under the assumption that people won't look as much into what they say, so I thought it worth pursuing to question you on it to see your reaction.

While I may have been mafia in the Monkey Island game, my posts on mindsets in terms of scumslips were genuine.

So when you questioned me on that post your thought was that I'd let my guard down so much that I accidentally wished that my scum partner had an awesome scum game in thread?

I don't remember your mindset post from Monkey Island or your scum slip post but it shouldn't matter; whenever you question someone on something, you should have a scenario in mind where you've caught them on something, and I find it pretty ridiculous that you thought that you caught me on "he might have accidentally wished that his scum partner had a great scum game in thread". So am I misunderstanding something in our conversation, or...?

[Nachomamma8]

I'm sorry to the host and you all; I just do not have any time for this game until I'm back in San Antonio. I don't want to replace out though because that will be Saturday.
Voting myself for now because I don't want to be punished for missing it and I have not read anything.

I didn't know that you were playing but am really excited to see you here and trust me that I'm doing the same travel catch up juggle you are (although yours probably is a whole lot worse than mine); hold on!!

[Nachomamma8]

I'm going to disagree with your summary of my read on Zebra as "genuine."

I do not view the way she went about that as "genuine."

She saw a very weak attack on a player, mischaracterized the severity and completeness of the reasoning of said attack, put forth a nonsensical and unnecessary defense of what was probably a joke and then didn't answer multiple questions regarding her posts.

I don't view that as a townie trying their best.


@Snow

What did you think of Zebra's initial defense of you?

Yes, sorry, that was more clear after your clarification.

Well, I disagree very strongly about the characterisation that both you and soneji have put forward about zebra. I'd say zebra looked much more flexible than those around her. In particular I'd say that

1) The attack that you and DDL put on Snow Dog, far from being weak, was very strong and way overdone for what it related to. You said outright you wanted to lynch him. So did DDL. You claim the idea of it being town lying was so unlikely that it deserved outright dismissal. DDL argued for a policy lynch and said there was a 99% chance Snow Dog was bad if he was lying. To me, the attack was strong and sustained far beyond what is reasonable from anyone with a town mind set - DDL was worse, but I do not like your content much in the exchange either, particular after zebra weighed in.

2) I do not think zebra ever mischaracterised either the 'severity' or the 'reasoning' of said attack. To me, as I read it in real time, she responded to the only reasons that could be reasonably implied from your posting. If you had reasons in your head that you didn't write in your posts, it's not fair to expect people to infer that and characterise your reasoning as something you haven't said.

3) "Put forth a nonsensical and unnecessary defence of what was probably a joke"... a: you didn't consider it a joke at the time, b: zebras defence makes perfect sense, what about it is nonsensical? and c) Two people were bearing down hard on another person for literally nothing, and you call the defence unnecessary?

4) What possible motivation would zebra have for making an 'unnecessary and nonsensical defence' of Snow Dog?

Having said all of that, I don't suspect you. I find your thinking a bit no u/omgus, but the first time I ever played with Zebra I tunnelled her into the ground on day one for suspecting me because she does come across (to the person being attacked) as someone who ignores the facts that don't suit her and seems to hone in only on the bits she wants to. I was wrong, and I think I've been wrong every time I have suspected Zebra for those reasons. I guess I now see it as one form of her town game.

I do suspect soneji, because his vote to me seems to be, in essence, 'I'm making a statement for playstyle - Jack is like me. Therefore, voting zebra', which is a terrible reason for a vote. Plus he was laissez faire with an unchangeable vote.

I officially suspect Golden for this post.

You don't think Jack is bad, but you're going to lecture him every which way from Sunday. What is the point of that?

Getting civs to think deeper is an important part of maintaining a healthy town and can only help the towns chances of winning.

[Spacedaisy]

@ MM & Jack: mostly gut, but I think it is based on the fact he seemed more present and Posty than say sprityo, but he didn't seem to be contributing much which is dead on what I was looking for. I don't understand what you are saying about qualifying or whatever.

@ Dom: is the SD in your post referring to me or Snow Dog? If me, please call me Daisy for clarity. I am not on a baddie or Indy team, if Sorsha is civ then we are teammates. And I see a drastic difference between her day 1 play in Lost Again and here. Frankly I'm surprised you think otherwise.

[Nachomamma8]

I'll fully catch up tomorrow.

I'll say for now I don't suspect Soneji, I do believe his suspicion of me is completely disingenuous but I think it's more likely because he wants revenge on me for failing him as a teammate in the previous game than him being an opportunistic baddie. As for Golden, thanks for defending me but no I most definitely did suspect both Jack and DDL for their opportunistic jumping on Snow Dog and made that clear from the start. Jack's recent claim that it was likely from the beginning that Snow Dog was joking speaks wonders considering neither he nor I brought up that possibility in our original back and forth. DDL looks better to me now, I was going to reply to his dropping out in Haiku Mafia that it wasn't his fault he got a mafia rolecard in two games but I can't say that now since I no longer view him as disingenuous, moreso confused. As far as the Snow Dog jumpers are concerned, it's actually MM who looks the worst to me in hindsight, considering he avoided the discussion altogether but afterwards continued to express unwarranted suspicion of Snow Dog. That's everyone regarding me and Snow Dog, as for everyone else I'll need a more in-depth catch up before I deliver more reads. I'm voting MM.

linki - mother of god

I wrote out a response to your Soneji comment then caught where I was being dumb before submitting; I've been especially horrible at catching jokes this game.

I don't mind suspicion of MM, he hasn't had quite the bombastic opening as he did last game but this seems like it's going to be a fairly calm game in general. I'm still not following the Jack-centric argument but he looks pretty solidly town even without digging into the nuances of that particular exchange.

[Nachomamma8]

I randomised and voted DDL, k?

I really wish he wouldn't do it a second time because I'm tired of making excuses for him, but this is Snow Dog making fun of Vompatti.

Yeah I figured it was something like that- doesn't really make me feel any better about it.

[Nachomamma8]

Now wait a second jack.

What's the advantage of random voting at all?

If you're not the determiner, you might as well not vote.

If you are the determiner....you want to determine who should die randomly?

Yeah?

You suggested anyone willing to randomize to not vote at all.

Now you're randomizing a low poster.

What changed your mind?

Two big differences between what I criticized and what I'm doing.

1) My pool is shortened significantly

2) I haven't voted. I've asked Scotty for his opinion on switching from one player within the pool that he (a potential scummer) chose and a player chosen at random.

Dude I don't know shit.

I also don't know shit in this game.

But I do know that you can do you, and I have no idea whether or not LoRab is a better or worse pick.

But I'm curious if you have an aversion to voting sprityo, jack

Scotty townread grows.

[Nachomamma8]

Am I allowed to vote 'We Didn't Start The Fire'? I'm really not liking the look of those leading wagons...

Why not try to get something fresh going?

[Nachomamma8]

I only just now realized how little time was left before deadline when Glorf made that post; nevermind on that question.

[Soneji]

@Golden : You are misunderstanding why I voted Zebra. It has nothing to do with sympathy for JoH, I am not sure how you got that impression when I didn't compare the two of us or mention myself as having culture clash in those posts. My vote went to Zebra as I saw her interaction with DDL and JoH as being a forced "gotcha" where she puts forth Snow Dog's claim of not reading his role as mafia bait that they bit on.

My earlier post was based on skimming the discussion. I reread things in full now that it is D1 and found other factors that changed my view.

My default mindset is changeable votes.

I don't get the forced "gotcha" thing but I'll guess I'll come back to this later.

Zebra created a scenario in which Snow Dog wasn't just joking but baiting out mafia, then used that as a means of putting JoH, DDL and MM as the mafia that bit on the bait. That is what I mean by forced "gotcha".

I hope that Epi's scum game is half as good as he says it is!!

Why exactly would you wish this, if you were town? You can like a challenge but in the end its a competition where you want to emerge victorious, there is no well-wishing to be had.

I assume he hopes that Epi is bad at being scum, in case he has to play against a scum Epi. Not a super sincere case of well-wishing.

I enjoy people who play the game at high levels; I enjoy learning and improving in this game and I haven't found a way to do so better than getting absolutely trashed by people who are better at the game at me.

Soneji, why did you think that this was scummy of me? Do you think that I would be publicly wishing that my scum partner's scum game was up to snuff; why wouldnt I just keep it to myself or the QT?

Its not really so easy as that. Do I think you posted that with the thought in your head of putting yourself as seriously well-wishing him? No. That doesn't even have to be the "motive", could be that you are scum and he is not to your knowledge. When people are fluffing they tend to let their guard down at times under the assumption that people won't look as much into what they say, so I thought it worth pursuing to question you on it to see your reaction.

While I may have been mafia in the Monkey Island game, my posts on mindsets in terms of scumslips were genuine.

So when you questioned me on that post your thought was that I'd let my guard down so much that I accidentally wished that my scum partner had an awesome scum game in thread?

I don't remember your mindset post from Monkey Island or your scum slip post but it shouldn't matter; whenever you question someone on something, you should have a scenario in mind where you've caught them on something, and I find it pretty ridiculous that you thought that you caught me on "he might have accidentally wished that his scum partner had a great scum game in thread". So am I misunderstanding something in our conversation, or...?

My thought was that you were fluffing and prone to potentially saying things that might be indicative of an underlying mindset, that most people would dismiss because it is fluff. I don't think like most people and I pursued the angle to see if it went anywhere. Your reactions have been satisfactory.

[Nachomamma8]

I don't understand why any votes happened yesterday exceptions for the Soneji vote and the mm vote by zebra (even though I thought it sucked).

I have strong suspicions on Snow Dog and Long Con based on gut; Snow Dog in particular is night and day from last game and I really don't think that this "troll pretend to be other players and avoid any meaningful scumhunting at all" is his town game. Long Con I felt that his role analysis was worse this time around than last time (lots more potential for creativity, lots less good points and true curiosity here). Soneji I don't like mainly for the weird scumslip thing on me; I don't mind that vote thing after I learned that votes are sometimes changeable here and I still think the vote on Zebra was dumb for a changeable vote and don't like how Soneji didn't try to find a better suspicion after that

[Jackofhearts2005]

Town reading Nacho.


Got a few Night Phase questions that probably should have been asked earlier.

If you get blocked or otherwise fail, does the mod tell you.

If you cop player a and get misdirected to player b, does the mod say "player b is town" or just "town"?

Can docs target themselves?

Does the mafia have to choose a hitman to forgo night action to make the kill?

[Soneji]

I was at work the rest of the day. Doubt I find any superior suspect while on mobile or otherwise, there has been a lack of worthwhile content to form reads on, same as Monkey Island in its early phases.

Seems a bit hypocritical and singling out to expect more from me when few others did much in the way of scumhunting. You just said yourself that my vote is one of the few you actually even see the reason behind, even if you disagree with it. At the most, I could have gone for pushing a CFD on Glorf for her fence-sitting and avoiding "false accusations" in a game based on accusing people without hard evidence.

Thinking back on something, Golden took my vote on Zebra as a sympathy vote for JoH. I don't know how his mind came to that conclusion but unless he felt it was false sympathy, which wasn't the vibe I got reading some of his posts, then why would he put that as indicative of mafia and not just emotion based bad play?

[DFaraday]

Town reading Nacho.


Got a few Night Phase questions that probably should have been asked earlier.

If you get blocked or otherwise fail, does the mod tell you. I will inform the player that their action failed.

If you cop player a and get misdirected to player b, does the mod say "player b is town" or just "town"? The cop would be informed of their new target.

Can docs target themselves? Everyone can target themselves, but may not double target.

Does the mafia have to choose a hitman to forgo night action to make the kill? Yes, the player carrying out the kill must be specified.

[sig]

@DF QUESTION! Do dead players win?

[sig]

@DF QUESTION! Do dead players win?

If their team wins that is, so would dead civvies still win?

[Soneji]

@DF QUESTION! Do dead players win?

Why is this important? Concerned about your own survival?

[DrWilgy]

Can docs target themselves?

Duh

[sig]

@DF QUESTION! Do dead players win?

Why is this important? Concerned about your own survival?

I think it's a vital question to know. I usually ask it day 0, but I forgot. Why shouldn't I want to know if I can win or not?

[Soneji]

@DF QUESTION! Do dead players win?

Why is this important? Concerned about your own survival?

I think it's a vital question to know. I usually ask it day 0, but I forgot. Why shouldn't I want to know if I can win or not?

If you're town, it is rather irrelevant if the host technically names you a winner. If town wins the game, then you won the game in spirit at the least. Your own survival should not be a concern or get in the way of putting forth a full effort to contribute to the town cause.

The whole idea of town or mafia not winning together is dumb, regardless of what a host says. If you contribute to a factions win, you share in that win.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Can docs target themselves?

Duh

My home site generally doesn't allow self targeting docs, which I like.

It does allow targetting the same player twice in a row (except for silencing), but I prefer the rule against doing that here.

[insertnamehere]

@DF QUESTION! Do dead players win?

Why is this important? Concerned about your own survival?

I think it's a vital question to know. I usually ask it day 0, but I forgot. Why shouldn't I want to know if I can win or not?

If you're town, it is rather irrelevant if the host technically names you a winner. If town wins the game, then you won the game in spirit at the least. Your own survival should not be a concern or get in the way of putting forth a full effort to contribute to the town cause.

The whole idea of town or mafia not winning together is dumb, regardless of what a host says. If you contribute to a factions win, you share in that win.

It could affect how high-powered civ roles play the game, and how forward they are with info.

[Golden]

@DF QUESTION! Do dead players win?

Why is this important? Concerned about your own survival?

I think it's a vital question to know. I usually ask it day 0, but I forgot. Why shouldn't I want to know if I can win or not?

If you're town, it is rather irrelevant if the host technically names you a winner. If town wins the game, then you won the game in spirit at the least. Your own survival should not be a concern or get in the way of putting forth a full effort to contribute to the town cause.

The whole idea of town or mafia not winning together is dumb, regardless of what a host says. If you contribute to a factions win, you share in that win.

It could affect how high-powered civ roles play the game, and how forward they are with info.

I think soneji is talking philosophically. In his opinion, not getting a technical win in the hall of fame shouldn't drive your strategy - if you help your team win, you should feel like you've won even without the banner. I agree with him, because I do feel that way. But there's definitely differing opinions on that and so I think it's an important question to have answered.

[insertnamehere]

@DF QUESTION! Do dead players win?

Why is this important? Concerned about your own survival?

I think it's a vital question to know. I usually ask it day 0, but I forgot. Why shouldn't I want to know if I can win or not?

If you're town, it is rather irrelevant if the host technically names you a winner. If town wins the game, then you won the game in spirit at the least. Your own survival should not be a concern or get in the way of putting forth a full effort to contribute to the town cause.

The whole idea of town or mafia not winning together is dumb, regardless of what a host says. If you contribute to a factions win, you share in that win.

It could affect how high-powered civ roles play the game, and how forward they are with info.

I think soneji is talking philosophically. In his opinion, not getting a technical win in the hall of fame shouldn't drive your strategy - if you help your team win, you should feel like you've won even without the banner. I agree with him, because I do feel that way. But there's definitely differing opinions on that and so I think it's an important question to have answered.

Sorry Golden, I only play games for the banners. That, and to rise up the leaderboards.

[sig]

@DF QUESTION! Do dead players win?

Why is this important? Concerned about your own survival?

I think it's a vital question to know. I usually ask it day 0, but I forgot. Why shouldn't I want to know if I can win or not?

If you're town, it is rather irrelevant if the host technically names you a winner. If town wins the game, then you won the game in spirit at the least. Your own survival should not be a concern or get in the way of putting forth a full effort to contribute to the town cause.

The whole idea of town or mafia not winning together is dumb, regardless of what a host says. If you contribute to a factions win, you share in that win.

It could affect how high-powered civ roles play the game, and how forward they are with info.

I'm not going to get into the nitty gritty ethical implications of whether a win is a win or if we really win or not. All I want to know is if I'll get a banner even if I die and my team wins.

[insertnamehere]

@DF QUESTION! Do dead players win?

Why is this important? Concerned about your own survival?

I think it's a vital question to know. I usually ask it day 0, but I forgot. Why shouldn't I want to know if I can win or not?

If you're town, it is rather irrelevant if the host technically names you a winner. If town wins the game, then you won the game in spirit at the least. Your own survival should not be a concern or get in the way of putting forth a full effort to contribute to the town cause.

The whole idea of town or mafia not winning together is dumb, regardless of what a host says. If you contribute to a factions win, you share in that win.

It could affect how high-powered civ roles play the game, and how forward they are with info.

I'm not going to get into the nitty gritty ethical implications of whether a win is a win or if we really win or not. All I want to know is if I'll get a banner even if I die and my team wins.

can one really win a game of mafia?

conversely, can one really lose a game of mafia?

Yes.

The answer is yes, on both counts.

[Soneji]

At least you guys get something as incentive for trying to survive when the host makes it so only survivor wins. On NF, everyone in the faction winning is a universal thing yet some people still play to survive. It is bad either way.

[DFaraday]

Effective immediately, Sprityo is replacing Glorfindel.

And yeah, dead members of factions win too.

[sprityo]

Thought you could get rid of me that easily?

[Marmot]

Thought you could get rid of me that easily?

Hullo spritfeaux.

[sprityo]

I'm not home ATM, but for the love of god, why was I lynched?!

My first game in awhile (that I'm trying to be active) and I get lynched for my efforts. Makes me cry a lil.

[sprityo]

Yknow what? Scratch that, I'll read through it myself. I'm just upset it was me and there was so many other options

[Spacedaisy]

Yknow what? Scratch that, I'll read through it myself. I'm just upset it was me and there was so many other options

if it's any consolation we couldn't be more sorry...

[sig]

Yknow what? Scratch that, I'll read through it myself. I'm just upset it was me and there was so many other options

if it's any consolation we couldn't be more sorry...

Except for the mafia.

[Nachomamma8]

Welcome back buddy!!!

[Nachomamma8]

Alright list updated.

• Dom
  DrWilgy
  Elohcin
  Epignosis*
  Glorfindel**
  LoRab
  Marco
  Nachomamma8
  soup
  sprityo

*Promised to read and vote. Appears to be unfaithful.
**Deliberately withheld vote.

Thanks for the list!
Are you just going to leave it out here or are you going to do something interesting with it?

[DrWilgy]

Can docs target themselves?

Duh

My home site generally doesn't allow self targeting docs, which I like.

It does allow targetting the same player twice in a row (except for silencing), but I prefer the rule against doing that here.

I see... well as a doctor what I said goes.

[Nachomamma8]

Because of course the cop dies day 1.

Your parents may have walked uphill both ways in the snow barefoot to school, but now we have to do all of that without pants.

I'm sorry sprityo. What a shitty way to go. I take responsibility for that one.

Did I mention that I'm townreading Scotty?
I did, right? Good.

[Nachomamma8]

I randomised and voted DDL, k?

Whether or not this vote was random or not, I disliked it - Snow Dog didnt seem the type to throw his vote around weakly like this and Luffy is a name that's been tossed around plenty as a possible lynch.

It's a shame you dislike it. I don't really care though. I likes it.

I think it's a shame I dislike it too; I am not really excited about the prospect of you being scum but you seem absolutely nothing last game; where is the fire you had last game?