GY!BE Mafia [E.N.D.]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Oh, and you cursed me, you killed my bride, you tried to lynch me three times, and you're willing to believe that Epignosis is more likely to be a mafioso than a simple civilian with BTSC.

Your current assignment is to look at the Golden/Niju interaction. Get busy.

Excellent! That accounts for the other round of civilian "BTSC" (Sunshine + Gasoline). Good eye Jay.

That's not BTSC. They don't know each other's ID and communicate through the host.

[DrWilgy]

JJJ, if you had to vote to save yourself right now who would you vote?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

JJJ, if you had to vote to save yourself right now who would you vote?

Epignosis.

[Marmot]

Oh, and you cursed me, you killed my bride, you tried to lynch me three times, and you're willing to believe that Epignosis is more likely to be a mafioso than a simple civilian with BTSC.

Your current assignment is to look at the Golden/Niju interaction. Get busy.

Excellent! That accounts for the other round of civilian "BTSC" (Sunshine + Gasoline). Good eye Jay.

That's not BTSC. They don't know each other's ID and communicate through the host.

If I could communicate to another civilian through the host, I would tell them who I am and ask them not to lynch me (among other things).

It presumably amounts to BTSC.

[Epignosis]

No, I'm acting like I'm voting you after considering the other choices.

That's how "Process of Elimination" works, right?

You you aren't. What a load of shit.

Also you still haven't told me who the SK and Mladic are. Because you don't care about answering the most important question in the game.

Haven't you been paying attention?

I've been figuring out who is NOT them.

No, you literally haven't been doing that.

You disqualified everyone except me in a world you claim still has two non-civilians.

You use the word "literally" a lot when you're bad.

You should work on that.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Oh, and you cursed me, you killed my bride, you tried to lynch me three times, and you're willing to believe that Epignosis is more likely to be a mafioso than a simple civilian with BTSC.

Your current assignment is to look at the Golden/Niju interaction. Get busy.

Excellent! That accounts for the other round of civilian "BTSC" (Sunshine + Gasoline). Good eye Jay.

That's not BTSC. They don't know each other's ID and communicate through the host.

If I could communicate to another civilian through the host, I would tell them who I am and ask them not to lynch me (among other things).

It presumably amounts to BTSC.

That defeats the purpose of the role and is almost definitely not alllowed.

Rico: can you clarify on whether Sunshine and Gasoline were allowed to identify one another by name?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You use the word "literally" a lot when you're bad.

You should work on that.

You evade important questions a lot when you're bad. Visibly more than you do when you're town. You should work on that.

[Epignosis]

Oh, and you cursed me, you killed my bride, you tried to lynch me three times, and you're willing to believe that Epignosis is more likely to be a mafioso than a simple civilian with BTSC.

Your current assignment is to look at the Golden/Niju interaction. Get busy.

Excellent! That accounts for the other round of civilian "BTSC" (Sunshine + Gasoline). Good eye Jay.

That's not BTSC. They don't know each other's ID and communicate through the host.

If I could communicate to another civilian through the host, I would tell them who I am and ask them not to lynch me (among other things).

It presumably amounts to BTSC.

That defeats the purpose of the role and is almost definitely not alllowed.

Rico: can you clarify on whether Sunshine and Gasoline were allowed to identify one another by name?

You sound unhappy about this possibility.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

To make this clear to everyone:

Epignosis has made it clear he believes the serial killer is alive. We also know Mladic is alive.

He has refused to guess at who to assign to each role. He has instead given me snarky retorts and ignored the importance of the issue.

[Marmot]

Nah, I think it's possible.

What if, e.g., Sunshine + Gasoline's secret is that night powers targeting one will affect both of them?

Or if something in Mladic role (I believe he is probably the mafia insanifier) says "if you target one of a btsc pair it affects both of them" or something along those lines?

Possible.

I will let you down

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Nah, I think it's possible.

What if, e.g., Sunshine + Gasoline's secret is that night powers targeting one will affect both of them?

Or if something in Mladic role (I believe he is probably the mafia insanifier) says "if you target one of a btsc pair it affects both of them" or something along those lines?

Possible.

I will let you down

What does that have to do with them identifying each other? Do you deny that the dynamic of their role makes no sense if they're allowed to do that?

[DrWilgy]

Epi what do you think of marmot friend?

[Epignosis]

To make this clear to everyone:

Epignosis has made it clear he believes the serial killer is alive. We also know Mladic is alive.

He has refused to guess at who to assign to each role. He has instead given me snarky retorts and ignored the importance of the issue.

I have no reason to guess. I have determined you aren't a civilian, and that's good enough for me today.

[Epignosis]

Epi what do you think of marmot friend?

I swear I just answered this.

Let me quote it.

[Epignosis]

Epignosis:

What do you think of Marmot and Wilgy?

I've always been clear that I suspect MM since his survival. But that suspicion is rooted in how I design and balance games. I can't answer for Ricochet's approach. I naturally worry that he's trying to get me in his corner, but I don't think that's what's going on. Plus there is the timmer factor to consider. I am unlikely to vote for him.

I was not suspicious of birdwithteeth, but DrWilgy hasn't given me anything to work with, and it's too late for his eccentricities.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I have no reason to guess. I have determined you aren't a civilian, and that's good enough for me today.

How can anyone trust this guy?

[Marmot]

Nah, I think it's possible.

What if, e.g., Sunshine + Gasoline's secret is that night powers targeting one will affect both of them?

Or if something in Mladic role (I believe he is probably the mafia insanifier) says "if you target one of a btsc pair it affects both of them" or something along those lines?

Possible.

I will let you down

What does that have to do with them identifying each other? Do you deny that the dynamic of their role makes no sense if they're allowed to do that?

They begin Day 1 not knowing who the other is.

They may send each other a message each night. One single message each day/night cycle. It is BTSC, just not in the standard chatzy sense.


That quote I pulled. Trice suggested that Sunshine+Gasoline would be simultaneously targeted with the insanification curse. Golden was cursed, but responded with his usual "No" answer. I conclude that he was saying "No, targetting one will not affect both of them".

[Epignosis]

Did 3J ever ask what the timmer factor was? That's a question I'd expect him to ask.

[DrWilgy]

Hmm... now that I thunk about it. SK and Mafia probably just targeted the same person.

JJJ did you consider this possibility?

Linki- Sorry Epi, I must've missed that.

[Marmot]

Hmm... now that I thunk about it. SK and Mafia probably just targeted the same person.

JJJ did you consider this possibility?

Linki- Sorry Epi, I must've missed that.

Did 3J ever ask what the timmer factor was? That's a question I'd expect him to ask.

I doubt it. Golden was targetted by both on Night 3, and Ricochet explicitly revealed such.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I've reviewed every possible BTSC combination of dead players with unrevealed roles (not including Vompatti, Dom, Quin, and LoRab) and living players. I think these are all compatible with a BTSC scenario:

BWT/Wilgy : Golden
Boomslang : Epignosis
Golden : Niju
Golden : timmer

I think Golden : Niju is the most compelling of the four. Golden never left any room for doubt about his read on her while also not making it explicitly obvious that they're a team. She didn't have enough material for his read to be generated without the help of information, and still his read on her was confident from the start. He defended her immediately when suspicion was cast upon her including from me.

[DrWilgy]

I see... nvm then. Rip Golden.

[Marmot]

Epignosis, I'm waiting for an answer.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Did 3J ever ask what the timmer factor was? That's a question I'd expect him to ask.

I'm looking at a thousand things at once right now and trying to keep current with the dialogue too. So I'll ask: what does the timmer factor refer to?

[Epignosis]

Epignosis, I'm waiting for an answer.

I'm on a friggin phone so I'm missing posts left and right.

Basically timmer stood up for you when I questioned your survival.

[Marmot]

Epignosis, I'm waiting for an answer.

I'm on a friggin phone so I'm missing posts left and right.

Basically timmer stood up for you when I questioned your survival.

Well in that case, Merry Christmas.

He did? I'll have to look then.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

That quote I pulled. Trice suggested that Sunshine+Gasoline would be simultaneously targeted with the insanification curse. Golden was cursed, but responded with his usual "No" answer. I conclude that he was saying "No, targetting one will not affect both of them".

I see what you mean. Given that Golden occupies all of my BTSC combinations other than Epi/Boomslang, your point is one I'll have to concede. That definitely looks like Golden hinting at being a part of that duo.

Which leaves Epi and Boomslang as a viable BTSC.

You seem civilian at face value right now given your effort to resolve roles and at least listen to what I'm saying, so I guess that leaves Wilgy.

[Epignosis]

Epignosis, I'm waiting for an answer.

I'm on a friggin phone so I'm missing posts left and right.

Basically timmer stood up for you when I questioned your survival.

Well in that case, Merry Christmas.

He did? I'll have to look then.

I saw that one, you turd.

[Epignosis]

I must retire.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Epignosis: I'm left agreeing with MM's perspective of you after reviewing all the other combinations and isolating Golden as a likely Gasoline/Sunshine role. So I need you to listen to me. The civilian faction will lose the game if I am lynched whether you believe me or not.

Ask yourself one core question, please:

Why do I as a killing role stroll into a final phase with you alive, knowing full well that you've wanted me dead for much of the game? Why also do I decide to turn the crosshairs against you, the most difficult lynch on the board, unless it's what I really believe in?

[Marmot]

Epignosis, I'm waiting for an answer.

I'm on a friggin phone so I'm missing posts left and right.

Basically timmer stood up for you when I questioned your survival.

Well in that case, Merry Christmas.

He did? I'll have to look then.

I saw that one, you turd.

I'm not gleaning anything from timmer's posts. He does appear to drop hints, and perhaps he could have saved a lynch of me somehow, but I find it hard to believe because he voted for me in the first place.

Based on the public role descriptions, I don't know what he could have done.

[DrWilgy]

Epignosis: I'm left agreeing with MM's perspective of you after reviewing all the other combinations and isolating Golden as a likely Gasoline/Sunshine role. So I need you to listen to me. The civilian faction will lose the game if I am lynched whether you believe me or not.

Ask yourself one core question, please:

Why do I as a killing role stroll into a final phase with you alive, knowing full well that you've wanted me dead for much of the game? Why also do I decide to turn the crosshairs against you, the most difficult lynch on the board, unless it's what I really believe in?

Counter question. What would prompt you to kill Sig instead of Epi?

[Marmot]

Epignosis: I'm left agreeing with MM's perspective of you after reviewing all the other combinations and isolating Golden as a likely Gasoline/Sunshine role. So I need you to listen to me. The civilian faction will lose the game if I am lynched whether you believe me or not.

Ask yourself one core question, please:

Why do I as a killing role stroll into a final phase with you alive, knowing full well that you've wanted me dead for much of the game? Why also do I decide to turn the crosshairs against you, the most difficult lynch on the board, unless it's what I really believe in?

Counter question. What would prompt you to kill Sig instead of Epi?

You admitted to not paying attention last night. Is that why you killed sig?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Counter question. What would prompt you to kill Sig instead of Epi?

That would be nonsense for me. Epignosis is more likely to vote for me than sig would have been, and sig is an easier lynch than Epi ever would be.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I've been left for dead in this damned game for about four cycles now and I have still tried my best to remain as productive a contributor as I can be. At least listen to what I have to say, y'all.

[Marmot]

I'm going to bed as well. See y'all on the morrow.

Linki: Welcome to my entire mafia career Jay.

[DrWilgy]

Epignosis: I'm left agreeing with MM's perspective of you after reviewing all the other combinations and isolating Golden as a likely Gasoline/Sunshine role. So I need you to listen to me. The civilian faction will lose the game if I am lynched whether you believe me or not.

Ask yourself one core question, please:

Why do I as a killing role stroll into a final phase with you alive, knowing full well that you've wanted me dead for much of the game? Why also do I decide to turn the crosshairs against you, the most difficult lynch on the board, unless it's what I really believe in?

Counter question. What would prompt you to kill Sig instead of Epi?

You admitted to not paying attention last night. Is that why you killed sig?

No, I just misspelled Epi's name

Why did you not submit a NK Marmot?

[Marmot]

No, I just misspelled Epi's name

Why did you not submit a NK Marmot?

I tried, but that's not part of my role description.

[DrWilgy]

So here's what is up. All I have to go by is what may happen at this point. I've tried, but I can't go through 3000 posts.

Assuming both 1 baddie and SK are still alive, at least one of Marmot or EPI are bad.

If it's Marmot, and JJJ gets lynched at this point, I doubt he would take the kill. He would wager on Epi voting for me with him.

If it's Epi, I think the same would apply, but he may wager on me teaming with him to lynch Marmot.

I can't predict what'll happen if both.

So who of these 2 are bad? My gut is telling me that Marmot put himself in a good position if him being bad is the case.

I'm tinfoiling everyone at this point it seems.

[DrWilgy]

Do we know if SK can be NK'd

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If it's Marmot, and JJJ gets lynched at this point, I doubt he would take the kill. He would wager on Epi voting for me with him.

I don't follow this point. Please expand.

[DrWilgy]

In the situation where Marmot is a lone baddie after this day cycle. He wouldn't submit a kill, this would prevent a 1v1 end game coin flip. It'd probably end up 2v1 in Marmots favor.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

In the situation where Marmot is a lone baddie after this day cycle. He wouldn't submit a kill, this would prevent a 1v1 end game coin flip. It'd probably end up 2v1 in Marmots favor.

I understand that mindset in a world where the 1v1 is a coin flip. It usually wouldn't be; indeed the game would end in any scenario where there aren't extra votes in play. Why do you assign this mindset specifically to Marmot?

[DrWilgy]

In the situation where Marmot is a lone baddie after this day cycle. He wouldn't submit a kill, this would prevent a 1v1 end game coin flip. It'd probably end up 2v1 in Marmots favor.

I understand that mindset in a world where the 1v1 is a coin flip. It usually wouldn't be; indeed the game would end in any scenario where there aren't extra votes in play. Why do you assign this mindset specifically to Marmot?

I didn't tho. Epi wouLd probably be the same, but I think he would vote to kill Marmot instead of me.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

In the situation where Marmot is a lone baddie after this day cycle. He wouldn't submit a kill, this would prevent a 1v1 end game coin flip. It'd probably end up 2v1 in Marmots favor.

I understand that mindset in a world where the 1v1 is a coin flip. It usually wouldn't be; indeed the game would end in any scenario where there aren't extra votes in play. Why do you assign this mindset specifically to Marmot?

I didn't tho. Epi wouLd probably be the same, but I think he would vote to kill Marmot instead of me.

When you project these future circumstances as you are, what is the purpose of that? What insight does it provide you about everyone else?

What is your read on me?

[DrWilgy]

In the situation where Marmot is a lone baddie after this day cycle. He wouldn't submit a kill, this would prevent a 1v1 end game coin flip. It'd probably end up 2v1 in Marmots favor.

I understand that mindset in a world where the 1v1 is a coin flip. It usually wouldn't be; indeed the game would end in any scenario where there aren't extra votes in play. Why do you assign this mindset specifically to Marmot?

I didn't tho. Epi wouLd probably be the same, but I think he would vote to kill Marmot instead of me.

When you project these future circumstances as you are, what is the purpose of that? What insight does it provide you about everyone else?

What is your read on me?

It let's me foresee cause and effect. If I can predict the effect before EOD it'll get me in the mindset where I can see entire plays.

Y'know those suspicions I can never explain? That's what those are. Me trying to read plays as a whole.

I see you as mafia baddie or SK. Based on current interactions I don't believe Epi to be bad.

Marmot would be the other unknown baddie.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

It let's me foresee cause and effect. If I can predict the effect before EOD it'll get me in the mindset where I can see entire plays.

Y'know those suspicions I can never explain? That's what those are. Me trying to read plays as a whole.

I see you as mafia baddie or SK. Based on current interactions I don't believe Epi to be bad.

Marmot would be the other unknown baddie.

Please tell me how you arrived at all three of those reads.

[DrWilgy]

It let's me foresee cause and effect. If I can predict the effect before EOD it'll get me in the mindset where I can see entire plays.

Y'know those suspicions I can never explain? That's what those are. Me trying to read plays as a whole.

I see you as mafia baddie or SK. Based on current interactions I don't believe Epi to be bad.

Marmot would be the other unknown baddie.

Please tell me how you arrived at all three of those reads.

Can I tomorrow?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Please do.

[Ricochet]

Rico: can you clarify on whether Sunshine and Gasoline were allowed to identify one another by name?

I can only specify that infodump rules would apply to any form of anonymous communication.