Homestar Runner [Day 13]

[Leamiteo]

Haha! Have you seen the cat diaries?
They are so funny! The first 20 seconds address the keyboard

[BigDamnHero]

I thought the same thing initially. Guess not! That would be waaay to easy to identify him. Hmm, maybe Strongsad is the one who speaks in prose.
I voted for Bullz and therefore immediately associated "target" with him, but perhaps that's just because in my own mind I was already thinking "baddie". I don't know though and I guess we'll find out in time.

I find it interesting that BWT and BDH both posited that "in" was in fact a typo in Strongsad's poem. Don't you think Strongsad, who has the opportunity to submitted something for the thread would proof read? And if it were a typo, wouldn't it make sense that there would have been an apostrophe? However, as was mentioned before, we don't know that Strongsad has any information, so perhaps it is just a person who suspected Bullz and vocalized it in the thread?

I guess I am confused about why you feel that it was a typo? Do either of you, BWT or BDH, care to give any more insight on that?

I hope you weren't civvies Bullz and Kate! What does it mean that the SK chose the Warrior Hut? There were only three people in it...the SK works alone right? So Trogdor wouldn't know the alignment of anyone else. What is the goal of the SK? Kill everyone off? I'm kind of stumbling along as I go, thanks for bearing with me, all.

OK, that's all for now.

Strong sad's poem really doesn't make much sense UNLESS that last line had the typo. I mean if he wanted to talk about Bullzeye why not just say the name instead of "target" (they both have the same syllable count and every line, save for the last, each has 3 syllables and the last line has 6) and what the hell would "I think in the target" mean anyway? Does he find some sort of mental nirvanna while shopping at the local retailer?

And I don't mean to be rude or insulting in ANY way shape or form, but you didn't even proofread your own post above when you wrote "Don't you think Strongsad, who has the opportunity to submitted something for the thread would proof read?". I'm simply pointing out that nobody here is exempt from making typing errors. Plus you also have to realize that there is absolutely no punctuation in the poem at all...periods, commas, apostrophe's or otherwise. So I would read it as follows:

All this talk.
Who is who?
What is what?
Where are bad (guys)?
I think I'M the target.

By following this model, I believe it sends a precise, clear message from the author.
All this talk
(There was a lot of discussions taking place during day1)
Who is who
(I have suspects as to who is what role)
What is what
(I don't know any other specifics about this game)
Where are bad
(Doesn't begin to know who could be an enemy)
I think in the target
(He fears he's in danger from the bad guys)

That's just my own personal analysis. In the end, it doesn't entirely matter much because there aren't a whole lot of details in this quasi-haiku, and even if I'm wrong about thepoem, Bullzeye is dead anyway so suspicions about his alliegences are pretty much moot at this point.

[thellama73]

Devil's advocate: The poem does make sense as written.

Where are bad? (where are the bad guys?)
I think in the target (A bull's eye is in a target, ergo Bullzeye is a bad guy.)

I don't see that it really matter what the poem means though, as we have no reason to believe Strongsad knows any more than the rest of us.

[Leamiteo]

Strong sad's poem really doesn't make much sense UNLESS that last line had the typo. I mean if he wanted to talk about Bullzeye why not just say the name instead of "target" (they both have the same syllable count and every line, save for the last, each has 3 syllables and the last line has 6) and what the hell would "I think in the target" mean anyway? Does he find some sort of mental nirvanna while shopping at the local retailer?

And I don't mean to be rude or insulting in ANY way shape or form, but you didn't even proofread your own post above when you wrote "Don't you think Strongsad, who has the opportunity to submitted something for the thread would proof read?". I'm simply pointing out that nobody here is exempt from making typing errors. Plus you also have to realize that there is absolutely no punctuation in the poem at all...periods, commas, apostrophe's or otherwise. So I would read it as follows:

All this talk.
Who is who?
What is what?
Where are bad (guys)?
I think I'M the target.

By following this model, I believe it sends a precise, clear message from the author.
All this talk
(There was a lot of discussions taking place during day1)
Who is who
(I have suspects as to who is what role)
What is what
(I don't know any other specifics about this game)
Where are bad
(Doesn't begin to know who could be an enemy)
I think in the target
(He fears he's in danger from the bad guys)

That's just my own personal analysis. In the end, it doesn't entirely matter much because there aren't a whole lot of details in this quasi-haiku, and even if I'm wrong about thepoem, Bullzeye is dead anyway so suspicions about his alliegences are pretty much moot at this point.

Thanks for the clarification. I was just curious both you and BWT felt so strongly that it was a indeed a typo. This makes sense to me.

Also, yeah, no offense taken. I've been really bad at proofreading. I usually only have a few minutes to hash out a post with my internet situation. I keep a separate tab open, adding and editing threads of unrelated topics...and I fail to adequately proofread. This particular instance was a lazy oversight, I have secure internet at the moment and I'm not at work.

So assuming this theory holds water, any ideas about who would be telling us they think they are being targeted?

[Spacedaisy]

Hedge is also a female... But you have the reason down

[Matt]

Hedge is also a female... But you have the reason down

At least I know you're a chica, Daisy!

[Dom]

Wow! Yo. I still think Bullzeye was a civ. I didn't have a read on Kate yet. But sorry to see you both go so soon!

I'm not positive, according to Strongsad's poem today.

Here it is:

All this talk
Who is who
What is what
Where are bad
I think in the target

Could Strongsad be suggesting Bullzeye is bad with his/her target rhetoric?

Why are you so sure that StrongSad would be right? It's not like StrongSad has any info.

Good question, but we don't know that Strongsad doesn't have any info either. I feel like if SS wants to put that in his/her poem, that s/he feels pretty strongly about it. S/he could have told us anything and that is what s/he thought would be the most useful. I'm not trying to say that I am taking it as gospel, because I'm not. I just know I like to take them to heart when we have in-thread msessages from civs. They've been very useful in other games (Mario is the one that immediately comes to mind), so take them with a grain of salt, but just still take them in.

This makes me feel better about you...

Which leaves me with Hedge... but I don't really feel strongly about Hedge. :/

[reywaS]

Hey everyone, I just wanted to let you guys know that I have asked our host to be replaced. Including this one I am in four games right now, and all but Six Feet Under are in the early stages of the game. It is simply too much for me to keep up with, and it would be unfair to Daisy and everyone else if I continued in the game without being able to keep up. I love playing mafia here at The Syndicate, but the games here are very fast paced and realistically playing in multiple other games is just not a good idea for me at the moment. I know that it is very lame to sign up for a game and then neglect said game. I'm sorry to everyone for this and I will, in future games, be sure to focus on just one game when I sign up for a Syndicate game.

[BigDamnHero]

Devil's advocate: The poem does make sense as written.

Where are bad? (where are the bad guys?)
I think in the target (A bull's eye is in a target, ergo Bullzeye is a bad guy.)

I don't see that it really matter what the poem means though, as we have no reason to believe Strongsad knows any more than the rest of us.

That's a fair enough perspective, and not to belabor the point any more, but why wouldn't Strongsad just say Bullzeye rather than make such a veiled statement which is obviously subjected to various interpretation?

But I whole heartedly agree with your last statement. The strongsad role doesn't appear to be privy to any special knowledge or insight so it would all be based on speculation on his part at the present time. Not to mention that even if he were indeed talking about Bullzeye, Trogdor killed him already so the point is now moot.

Thanks for the clarification. I was just curious both you and BWT felt so strongly that it was a indeed a typo. This makes sense to me.

Also, yeah, no offense taken. I've been really bad at proofreading. I usually only have a few minutes to hash out a post with my internet situation. I keep a separate tab open, adding and editing threads of unrelated topics...and I fail to adequately proofread. This particular instance was a lazy oversight, I have secure internet at the moment and I'm not at work.

So assuming this theory holds water, any ideas about who would be telling us they think they are being targeted?

I think that's a very dangerous question to ask and shouldn't be pursued for fear of outing a civillian role thereby putting them in even more peril.

[Hedgeowl]

Interesting theories being tossed around on Strongsad's poetry. I tend to agree that maybe it meant Bullz, although as BDH mentioned why not be more direct? I am not sure Strongsad has any more info than the rest of us. Unless his role says secret. I'll have to check.

I never want to vote Mongoose and she sounds like Mongoose so far, but I doubt I'll be the one to figure it out if she is bad. I don't have any more than I did last vote.

As for the suspicions around me. I understand my vote for Vomps is suspicious based on looking like a teammate protection and the timing. I almost always wait to last minute if I can. This has helped lynch a few baddies before I've found. I don't see anyway to defend against this. Think about it, all the civs considering a vote for me. If you were in my position how would you defend against a vote that looks suspicious, but is really as innocent as most Day 1 votes? I urge any of you thinking of voting for me to reconsider. It is a vote that all civs will greatly regret.

[Leamiteo]

I think that's a very dangerous question to ask and shouldn't be pursued for fear of outing a civillian role thereby putting them in even more peril.

Yes. Good point.

[Vompatti]

Hedge, I do find your vote slightly suspicious but not any more suspicious than the other two votes against me. Agleamin voted for me because I said I didn't receive any info (which seems like a strange reason to me), and MP voted for me just to see if someone else would(!):

Odd as it may seem, I think I am going to follow Gleam and vote Vompatti myself because I want to see what happens thereafter. I don’t necessarily endorse a bandwagon nor anyone else necessarily voting for him because I personally can't tell whether he's baddie or civvie at this point, but my vote has to go somewhere, and I refuse to randomize and have nothing even close to anything remotely solid on anyone currently. So in the lack of any real substantial candidates, I’d much rather gain some information by my vote (yay baiting!). Vompatti, if you are a civvie, I apologize in advance if this ends up getting you sacrificed, but hopefully and presumably that won’t happen – it should be interesting to see if anyone else does indeed actually vote for you or not and if so, who does so.

votes Vompatti

[Snow Dog]

Hedgeowl, it seems a few will vote for you. Can you explain your vote?

[Draconus]

Hedgeowl, it seems a few will vote for you. Can you explain your vote?

Yes please. Hedge, if you are indeed a civ I would really like to hear a little more about the vote. I understand that it is a tough scenario to defend, but I would hate helping to lynch a civ. Any further insight into your vote would be greatly appreciated.

[Tangrowth]

Holy shit, this is a really talkative game. Even more than most others, it seems. Thank god I goofed off a bit this morning and caught up, otherwise tomorrow I would have been hating myself when it was time to vote.

I find it interesting two players in particular agreed with me on llama. Is it that they are getting different vibes from him than normally as well or are they latching?

Here's my few thoughts for the evening. And this will be a long one, so grab a cup of coffee if you need it.

First off, RIPIYWG Bullz and Kate. I was iffy with Bullz, and I didn't have a read on Kate yet.

Secondly, I'm not sure why Bea was removed from the poll. I would be curious to know if she knows how she was. Because right now, the only thing I can think of is secrets. I can understand it possibly being that Strong Bad picked her email, but somehow I doubt that's actually what it is.

Next, I'm not going to spend too much time trying to figure anything out about the secret event. I would assume the people who are involved with it are already aware of it. Unfortunately, I am not one of them.

I think Strong Sad made a typo in his poem, and meant to put 'I'm' instead of 'in'. Maybe he thinks Bullz was being set up by someone? Idk. But then again, Strong Sad doesn't have info as far as I'm aware, so I'll take it with a grain of salt unless I find more evidence to back that up.

I can see where Matt F. is coming from with Mongoose. It definitely seems ironic that she would be hesitant about new players, when she herself isn't really much of a veteran yet. Something to keep an eye on for sure.

Llama, for some reason I feel a lot of your posts are lacking the kind of substance I am used to seeing. I feel like you normally try to be fairly helpful, but I feel like your posts aren't saying as much as they normally do. Maybe it's just a gut feeling for now, but it's how I feel about you.

Not sure I see what the case on Hedgeowl is. Would someone care to elaborate?

I know MP has a lot of stuff going on IRL, but does anyone else feel like he's just throwing a lot of names and theories out there to see if anything sticks? I guess I'm used to him making lots of giant quote pyramids and finding lots of evidence to back up his claims. So idk if it's because of his RL stuff that he isn't doing that or if it's a more nefarious reason. I'll give him a bit of time for now with it though, given what he's been dealing with this week, but I'm hoping that picks up again soon.

I think that's about it for now. You may sit back and exhale.

Linki

Re: Mongoose -- She's certainly played enough games, and well enough, for her to be considered somewhere in between new and veteran, don't you think?

Interesting articulation regarding llama. I don't really feel like that's why he caught my eye though.

How many names and theories have I even mentioned? What constitutes "a lot"?

I am attempting to come up with evidence as much as possible; I'm just taking a different approach. Also, I shouldn't need to remind you, but out of most of the games we've played together this year, I've been a baddie. Ever consider that?

It should be pretty evident; I personally think, even though I model my baddie game after my civvie game, that I do have certain tells in my civvie game, and that those have been present this game.

Of course, that's easy for me to say, I understand my own intentions, so I can appreciate your skepticism.

But think about what I said above, the fact that I do have a FUCKTON I'm dealing with right now, and the fact that this game currently has a ridiculous amount of posts for Day 2. I am trying my best to keep up with what's being said; I do not yet have the time nor the desire to go back and read previous posts. Besides, I'm trying to revamp my civvie playstyle because I've done those huge cases early on in mafia games so many times in the past and been wrong. I am not repeating Minecraft.

Llama, for some reason I feel a lot of your posts are lacking the kind of substance I am used to seeing. I feel like you normally try to be fairly helpful, but I feel like your posts aren't saying as much as they normally do. Maybe it's just a gut feeling for now, but it's how I feel about you.

Not sure I see what the case on Hedgeowl is. Would someone care to elaborate?

To be honest, I'm having a bit of analysis paralysis. There are so many roles with so many powers, I'm having a hard time coming up with plausible explanations of what is going on without descending into baseless speculation. I am trying to keep it simple, hence my intention to vote for Hedgeowl.

The case against her is the following: Vompatti had two votes, Elohcin had three. Then Hedgeowl voted late for Vompatti, tying the vote. Then Elohcin flipped baddie. I never saw a strong case against vomps, so I think her vote was an effort to protect a teammate.

Yet you had no analysis paralysis in Bioshock, a game that was far more complex? A simple question, nothing more.

Yes, but this is a question I've asked twice now, but would a teammate seriously do that?

I also have to say I find Devin suspicious again now. Why, you ask? Just because I know he loves it.

No, but seriously, I can't put my finger on it. I am still mostly unsure of him, but I find it interesting how my little stunt to try to subtly draw attention to him in one of my previous posts didn't get a response from anyone. That and a few of his posts have struck an odd chord with me... not sure if they're sinister at all, just odd.

What can I say... I'm an odd balll

By the way I hate you

No you don't.

Vompatti's alignment is not really relevant to Hedgeowl's guilt. If she is a member of the teen girl squad, as I suspect, she would vote for Vomps to save her teammate if he was any alignment other than a member of teen girl squad. She would be just as likely to vote for a blue laser or an indie as a civvie.

This is incredibly logical. But I keep struggling with the question: What would a teammate of Elohcin do? Would they really try to save her like that?

That said, I voted Vompatti to see if anyone else would, and I wouldn't be opposed to a Hedgeowl lynch; I just hope it's not wrong.

Hedge, I do find your vote slightly suspicious but not any more suspicious than the other two votes against me. Agleamin voted for me because I said I didn't receive any info (which seems like a strange reason to me), and MP voted for me just to see if someone else would(!):

Odd as it may seem, I think I am going to follow Gleam and vote Vompatti myself because I want to see what happens thereafter. I don’t necessarily endorse a bandwagon nor anyone else necessarily voting for him because I personally can't tell whether he's baddie or civvie at this point, but my vote has to go somewhere, and I refuse to randomize and have nothing even close to anything remotely solid on anyone currently. So in the lack of any real substantial candidates, I’d much rather gain some information by my vote (yay baiting!). Vompatti, if you are a civvie, I apologize in advance if this ends up getting you sacrificed, but hopefully and presumably that won’t happen – it should be interesting to see if anyone else does indeed actually vote for you or not and if so, who does so.

votes Vompatti

Why do you find my vote suspicious? I wanted to see what would happen.

Besides, you should be thanking me. It sure was a close one, but I saved you. Do you think you'll be dying today? I don't.

I understand why you would find me suspicious if you were a baddie though. Maybe you are.

I agree that Hedgeowl's vote yesterday makes her look bad, definitively. I don't understand why anyone would have gone on and voted Vompatti after I specifically made that speech in my vote about wanting to bait players and see if anyone else would vote for him, despite the fact that I had no idea as to his alignment. It makes no sense. But just because it makes no sense doesn't mean Hedgeowl is baddie...

.........

I could see voting for Hedgeowl... but I don't want to railroad a civvie. I can definitely see a scenario that would make her bad, but I'm naturally hesitant.

So...what does this mean, concerning your thoughts on Owl? Good or bad?

Also, as an Elo voter, I'm most interested in you elaborating on your thoughts on how you think an Elo teammate would throw her under the bus. You also said all three of her votes came out of nowhere, but I had a small ping on her rather early, when she used the line "We civs gotta stick together" when talking to you in the thread. When it came time to vote, I felt better about voting her then randoming someone I didn't have any suspicion on, as weak as a suspicion as it may have been.

Looking back through your posts, I also notice that at one point, you told Llama that you didn't believe Mongoose or Elo would be so obvious buddy buddy in the thread with their theories. Once Elo was lynched, you later say (very recently) that you still don't believe da Goose is a baddie.

Now, don't get me wrong, after Goose's response to me, I feel a lot better about her. However, given that you were already telling people to not look their way, I would think upon learning that Elo WAS a baddie, that you would be a bit more hesitant yourself when it comes to Goose.

Seeing as you're not suspicious of her all that much, even tipping her with a 1% civvie vibe, it makes me wonder if you know Goose isn't on the cheerleader team. And then I wonder how you would know such a thing?

Furthermore, considering you went out of your way to vote for Vomps all the while saying you were hoping to catch a baddie for voting Vomps as well (which is a bit weird to announce in the thread, btw). Now Hedge votes Vomps, all the while putting Vomps and Elo (baddie Elo) in a tie, and it seems like you don't want to vote for Hedge, but rather, a low poster. Or possibly even an Elo voter???

Maybe I'm just not understanding your motivations in this game, MP.

Concerning Hedgeowl... I honestly have no idea. I understand the case on her; it's logical, and it could very well mean she is Elo's teammate. However, I'm having trouble believing that's actually what happened.

MR F/Matt F, I am not looking at you as suspicious currently at all. It just has occurred to me that a teammate of Elo's might think of a crazy idea to throw a vote onto her this early in the game, and it would have benefited even further in this particular set of circumstances where she was lynched. Also, I've done that many times as a baddie... in fact, I have a harder time defending teammates than I do throwing them under the bus.

I am not defending Mongoose to my or her grave because I don't know that she's civvie, but her defenses are reading genuine to me, and I will definitely not be voting for her today. And yes, I have a hard time believing she would behave like that if she was on a team with Elo. I could be very wrong on that though, but it's just my natural instinct on reading how it all went down.

My motivations are simple: I'm trying to fuck with the baddies' minds as much as possible. I'm almost certain that in either or both team's BTSCs they have discussed me at some point.

I'M IN YOUR AREA, baddies. In your fucking area.

[Tangrowth]

One question before I go: What do players (besides Mongoose and BWT) think of llama this game?

Answers much appreciated.

[Vompatti]

Hedge, I do find your vote slightly suspicious but not any more suspicious than the other two votes against me. Agleamin voted for me because I said I didn't receive any info (which seems like a strange reason to me), and MP voted for me just to see if someone else would(!):

Odd as it may seem, I think I am going to follow Gleam and vote Vompatti myself because I want to see what happens thereafter. I don’t necessarily endorse a bandwagon nor anyone else necessarily voting for him because I personally can't tell whether he's baddie or civvie at this point, but my vote has to go somewhere, and I refuse to randomize and have nothing even close to anything remotely solid on anyone currently. So in the lack of any real substantial candidates, I’d much rather gain some information by my vote (yay baiting!). Vompatti, if you are a civvie, I apologize in advance if this ends up getting you sacrificed, but hopefully and presumably that won’t happen – it should be interesting to see if anyone else does indeed actually vote for you or not and if so, who does so.

votes Vompatti

Why do you find my vote suspicious? I wanted to see what would happen.

Besides, you should be thanking me. It sure was a close one, but I saved you. Do you think you'll be dying today? I don't.

I understand why you would find me suspicious if you were a baddie though. Maybe you are.

You saved me? How? I don't think I'm dying today, but I don't see how that has anything to do with you voting me and nearly getting me lynched. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think voting for someone you don't suspect just to see what would happen is a very civ thing to do.

[thellama73]

Yet you had no analysis paralysis in Bioshock, a game that was far more complex? A simple question, nothing more.

Yes, but this is a question I've asked twice now, but would a teammate seriously do that?

I didn't really try to logic anything out in Bioshock because I quickly decided it was impossible. Then I died. Anyway, I approach different games differently based on the mood I'm in. Sometimes I get really excited about analyzing every little detail. Sometimes I don't feel like doing that and prefer just to ride along and see what happens. Unlike you, I don't really make any effort to keep my playstyle consistent from game to game. I'm happy to mix things up, which keeps people guessing as to my alignment just as much as consistency does.

And yes, I do think a baddie would try to save a teammate if there was a reasonable chance of success.

One question before I go: What do players (besides Mongoose and BWT) think of llama this game?

Answers much appreciated.

I think I'm really great and a great asset, not only to the civvie team, but to the game in general.

[thellama73]

MP, are you just trying to get me lynched because I'm keeping you from having the highest post count? Be honest, I know it bugs you.

[Mongoose]

I think it was probably triggered by the number of deaths (3) and/or that each type of villain (the teen girl killer, the blue laser kill and Trogdor) was able to secure a kill. But I learned my lesson about speculating in this game!

This is plausible. You're allowed to speculate, don't stop. Because if you become quiet you'll become a target for being quiet.

@ Leamiteo - Ha, okay. Thanks for the encouragement, Leamiteo.

@ Matt F - No worries dude. Pretty much everyone here thought I was a guy at first.

@ All - Someone just printed something to my printer that said "Give to Alison." That's all it said. Weird.

[thellama73]

@ All - Someone just printed something to my printer that said "Give to Alison." That's all it said. Weird.

I like the open ended nature of that.
"Give what to Alison?"
"It doesn't matter! Just give! Give like there's no tomorrow!"

[Vompatti]

@ All - Someone just printed something to my printer that said "Give to Alison." That's all it said. Weird.

I like the open ended nature of that.
"Give what to Alison?"
"It doesn't matter! Just give! Give like there's no tomorrow!"

That seems like a very nice and very communist thing to do.

[Mongoose]

@ All - Someone just printed something to my printer that said "Give to Alison." That's all it said. Weird.

I like the open ended nature of that.
"Give what to Alison?"
"It doesn't matter! Just give! Give like there's no tomorrow!"

That seems like a very nice and very communist thing to do.

why didn't they just come hand it to me? How do they have access to my printer? Why do they want me to have an otherwise blank piece of paper? My paranoia levels are now off the Richter.

[Draconus]

@ All - Someone just printed something to my printer that said "Give to Alison." That's all it said. Weird.

OMG! I have a friend named Alison who works in a museum! I consider libraries museums for books

[>SpaghettiEverywhere]

I was there too, I must admit that that game made me a whole heck more cautious about presents of any sort

Oh yeah!! Were you still Spaghetti then?

Also, that was my first game ever. Great first impression, huh? Lesson learned: never trust a gift from a sock.

That was my first game of mafia ever too. And no, my username was BloodFeastIslandMan, I was the one who drew all the pictures

[Draconus]

Llama, for some reason I feel a lot of your posts are lacking the kind of substance I am used to seeing. I feel like you normally try to be fairly helpful, but I feel like your posts aren't saying as much as they normally do. Maybe it's just a gut feeling for now, but it's how I feel about you.

Not sure I see what the case on Hedgeowl is. Would someone care to elaborate?

To be honest, I'm having a bit of analysis paralysis. There are so many roles with so many powers, I'm having a hard time coming up with plausible explanations of what is going on without descending into baseless speculation. I am trying to keep it simple, hence my intention to vote for Hedgeowl.

The case against her is the following: Vompatti had two votes, Elohcin had three. Then Hedgeowl voted late for Vompatti, tying the vote. Then Elohcin flipped baddie. I never saw a strong case against vomps, so I think her vote was an effort to protect a teammate.

Yet you had no analysis paralysis in Bioshock, a game that was far more complex? A simple question, nothing more.

Yes, but this is a question I've asked twice now, but would a teammate seriously do that?

I agree with this completely! And the roles were much more complicated in Bioshock. It seems like it would much easier to build an analysis here.
But I did read llama's defense. After that I'm leaning 55% baddie and 45% civvie on llama because I can still understand his argument. I am still leaning baddie, though because of just how active he was in Bioshock as a civvie.

[Draconus]

I was there too, I must admit that that game made me a whole heck more cautious about presents of any sort

Oh yeah!! Were you still Spaghetti then?

Also, that was my first game ever. Great first impression, huh? Lesson learned: never trust a gift from a sock.

That was my first game of mafia ever too. And no, my username was BloodFeastIslandMan, I was the one who drew all the pictures

Ahh!!! I loved those pictures!! I miss seeing those in every mafia game.

[Draconus]

EBWOP: That was supposed to be in OT green. Sorry!

[>SpaghettiEverywhere]

I was there too, I must admit that that game made me a whole heck more cautious about presents of any sort

Oh yeah!! Were you still Spaghetti then?

Also, that was my first game ever. Great first impression, huh? Lesson learned: never trust a gift from a sock.

That was my first game of mafia ever too. And no, my username was BloodFeastIslandMan, I was the one who drew all the pictures

Ahh!!! I loved those pictures!! I miss seeing those in every mafia game.

i havent really had time or the focus to do those in any games recently, plus in all of the games I've played in recently, the host posts aren't terribly full of a story or anything like the avant mafia was, and that makes it real hard to draw pictures of them

[juliets]

Just to step in with my two cents, I can't add anything new to all these posts but I'll weigh in on several things.

First, I would also really, really like to hear from Hedge on her vote for Vomps. I do think it was most likely an attempt at a save but maybe there is something I'm not thinking of that would make it seem less nefarious.

I don't think Mongoose is bad at this point and think her inclusion of Elo in her remarks was not remarkable. Mongoose is a smart player and that is too much of a mistake for her to have made in my mind.

MP I'm having a small ping about you using Vomps to see what would happen - maybe i just didn't understand - and trying to get us to go down that path of 6 civvies. You've played and hosted enough to know how unbalanced that would be. With all that said though I know you are going through a lot right now and really this is the last thing you should be concerned with so I don't think I'm going to consider you until things are back to normal.

Also, I have no idea about llama in this game yet. It's still early even though there have been a beejillion posts.

Speaking of a beejillion posts I have to be honest and say I'm having a hard time keeping up with this game. It's just taking me a little time to get the pace down with the other two games I'm playing.

[thellama73]

After that I'm leaning 55% baddie and 45% civvie on llama because I can still understand his argument.

I like those odds!

[Draconus]

I was there too, I must admit that that game made me a whole heck more cautious about presents of any sort

Oh yeah!! Were you still Spaghetti then?

Also, that was my first game ever. Great first impression, huh? Lesson learned: never trust a gift from a sock.

That was my first game of mafia ever too. And no, my username was BloodFeastIslandMan, I was the one who drew all the pictures

Ahh!!! I loved those pictures!! I miss seeing those in every mafia game.

i havent really had time or the focus to do those in any games recently, plus in all of the games I've played in recently, the host posts aren't terribly full of a story or anything like the avant mafia was, and that makes it real hard to draw pictures of them

I completely understand. It would be kinda boring just to draw a dead character for each lynch. And aside from the infamous night in Bioshock, not a whole lot usually happens in night periods. Btw the drawing for that night would have been accurate if it were just a blood-screen. Lol.

Linki: They are pretty decent odds if not entirely in your favor

[Draconus]

Back to work for me. Be back later!

[Hedgeowl]

I guess that is partly what I am struggling with right now. How does anyone explain a Day 1 vote without it sounding weak? The top vote getters were Bullz, Elo, and Vomps. I didn't have suspicions on anyone for Day 1 and everyone else had voted as the only voter for other roles knowing none of these people would be lynched and therefore they wouldn't feel responsible. Even MP claimed this with his vote for Vomps. Although he was the 2nd voter.

My decision was do I vote for someone and throwaway my vote because I know they wont die? Sure, I could have done that, but I decided to see what happened if I tied the vote. (I have since been informed by Bullz, that Epi only does this in polls and its not normal. But Epi has hosted 2 of the 7 games I have played or am playing so its my "normal") That's it really. I was hoping no one would die and we'd get more time, but of course I knew I would be a target the moment we all learned who Elohcin was. I understand why everyone thinks I could be her teammate and I have said this from the beginning.

If you lynch me I totally get it and no hard feelings, but certain roles might want to save a rezz for me later. (Doh! That's Dom's game. There appear to be no rezzs in this game)

YOU DO NOT WANT TO LYNCH ME!

[Tangrowth]

Hedge, I do find your vote slightly suspicious but not any more suspicious than the other two votes against me. Agleamin voted for me because I said I didn't receive any info (which seems like a strange reason to me), and MP voted for me just to see if someone else would(!):

Odd as it may seem, I think I am going to follow Gleam and vote Vompatti myself because I want to see what happens thereafter. I don’t necessarily endorse a bandwagon nor anyone else necessarily voting for him because I personally can't tell whether he's baddie or civvie at this point, but my vote has to go somewhere, and I refuse to randomize and have nothing even close to anything remotely solid on anyone currently. So in the lack of any real substantial candidates, I’d much rather gain some information by my vote (yay baiting!). Vompatti, if you are a civvie, I apologize in advance if this ends up getting you sacrificed, but hopefully and presumably that won’t happen – it should be interesting to see if anyone else does indeed actually vote for you or not and if so, who does so.

votes Vompatti

Why do you find my vote suspicious? I wanted to see what would happen.

Besides, you should be thanking me. It sure was a close one, but I saved you. Do you think you'll be dying today? I don't.

I understand why you would find me suspicious if you were a baddie though. Maybe you are.

You saved me? How? I don't think I'm dying today, but I don't see how that has anything to do with you voting me and nearly getting me lynched. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think voting for someone you don't suspect just to see what would happen is a very civ thing to do.

Then you and I disagree.

A civvie's job is to eliminate the baddies. What better way to try and figure out who the baddies are, especially early on in a game when many players are doing a fantastic job playing and there's hardly anything concrete to go on, than by baiting them?

So our methods disagree and you find mine to be nonsensical. As I inquired of Kate but she never got the chance to answer: How does that make me baddie?

Same question for you, JC.

Yet you had no analysis paralysis in Bioshock, a game that was far more complex? A simple question, nothing more.

Yes, but this is a question I've asked twice now, but would a teammate seriously do that?

I didn't really try to logic anything out in Bioshock because I quickly decided it was impossible. Then I died. Anyway, I approach different games differently based on the mood I'm in. Sometimes I get really excited about analyzing every little detail. Sometimes I don't feel like doing that and prefer just to ride along and see what happens. Unlike you, I don't really make any effort to keep my playstyle consistent from game to game. I'm happy to mix things up, which keeps people guessing as to my alignment just as much as consistency does.

And yes, I do think a baddie would try to save a teammate if there was a reasonable chance of success.

One question before I go: What do players (besides Mongoose and BWT) think of llama this game?

Answers much appreciated.

I think I'm really great and a great asset, not only to the civvie team, but to the game in general.

While your defense is understandable and logically explained, this rubs me the wrong way. I can't help but ignore it.

I'm tempted to just go with my gut and vote llama now because I don't know if I will have time to go back before the poll ends or if I will even want to. It's bothering me that I even feel obligated to come back to vote because I'm really upset and have enough on my plate right now. As much as I'm really enjoying this game, the prospect of trying to find time to come back, analyze, and vote before the end of this period is furthering my stress, so...

As much as I hate to do so, especially since llama gets unfairly lynched often as a civvie and early on in games, and it's something I really can relate to -- and as such, I really, really don't want to suspect him -- but I can't ignore my gut.

For other prospective voters, if you want to vote Hedgeowl, feel free. I will not be doing so. I'm following my gut and my interpretation of events and what Hedgeowl, Mongoose, llama, and everyone has said. I don't think mafia is sometimes so straightforward as people make it seem -- so it seems Hedgeowl is most likely to be baddie right now based on thread evidence, fine. But I personally don't believe her to be. It's more complicated than that.

This could come back to bite me in the ass, but it's what I'm willing to do. Hedgeowl very well could be baddie, but for now, I'm buying her defense. I won't be voting for her anyway. If others want to do so, that's their perogative.

I am voting llama because my gut is screaming for it. Think about it, even though I don't have the time or desire to flip back, a few things come to mind.... He explained away how what he said about me (the two posts) that I pointed out earlier -- that they were not incompatible. But... I'm not sure I believe him. Look back at his posts. I don't think this is a civvie llama; I think this is a llama who is nefarious. He really seems to be leading the lynch movement against Hedgeowl, but not so strongly enough as he usually does as a civvie crusader, it's sort of weird. I hope that makes sense. He seems to be himself mostly, but he seems to be a bit more subtle in his some of his offense and defense, a little more like he has something to lose, like people are depending on him.

Also, I know he loves to give players who post a lot a few days, but think about why he said that quote and particularly in this game. He would certainly not want to be lynched like he has been unfairly in past games (Bioshock). But even there, sometimes he doesn't state his beliefs so strongly and boldly... Maybe he really wanted to push that idea and have myself and possibly others agree with it because he wants to avoid a repeat, because his alignment has changed. Think about it, he could really use what has happened to him recently and in the past to his advantage if he were a baddie here.

Then think about how he thought Mongoose and Elohcin were suspicious for throwing out wacky ideas. It's almost as if...

It's almost as if llama is trying too hard to be like himself. I sense some sort of insincerity. I sense that in his post here clarify this. That's exactly what it was. I have sensed this in a few of his posts throughout the game.

I'm far from sure of this, but it's by far what my gut is telling me makes the most sense right now, and given everything I've said above and that I really feel way better just voting now because I don't think I'll be able to and want to later, I'm just going to go for it and listen to my gut. It's all I really have right now.

votes llama

[Tangrowth]

Fuck, I messed that up. I was using multiple tabs to keep track of my quotes and my original message.... and I forgot this stuff. This should have been at the top before my quotes:


I'm feeling incredibly mentally and emotionally overwhelmed with everything in my life right now and I know I'm going to be really busy through Saturday. I'm tempted to vote shortly for those reasons because I don't want to miss out on this game and get replaced because it is a good distraction (but at times it's just too much for me) and for that reason I intend on staying in this game and do not want to miss the vote.

Call me a sucker, but Hedgeowl's defense seems genuine to me. I know it makes sense that she could be Elo's teammate and have saved her, but I'm really just not feeling it my gut. My brain says she very well could be bad, but my gut says no way. If she is baddie, then she is good at lying.

[thellama73]

Well shoot, I was just about to post and ay that Hedgeowl's defense sounds really sincere and I am rethinking my vote against her, but now MP's post makes that sound opportunistic and fake, so I'm not sure what to do.

I understand about gut feelings, MP, and can't blame you for acting on yours. Frankly, my gut seems to be telling me that you are baddie (no u, I know) but I have been trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. My other gut ping is against Mongoose, who I just don't trust this game for whatever reason.

I guess I will wait and see if others follow your vote against me. I may need to vote defensively, and at least that would resolve my dilemma.

[juliets]

Well, I can definitely say I'm rethinking a vote for Hedge after her post. I agree it did sound genuine. llama, I for one don't see your reconsideration as opportunistic or fake.

I don't know what to make of the rest of MP's post about llama. The things he cites seem so small and nuanced and I haven't been reading llama that way. Of course I don't know him as well as MP but MP's post doesn't convince me he is bad, at least not at this point in time. The only think that bothers me a little is MP's propensity for voting his teammates early. I'm going to ignore that though for now and not vote llama.

So, not Hedgeowl and not llama and not Mongoose. Who then? Anyone have anything else that they've noticed that could lead to a baddie?

[thellama73]

So, not Hedgeowl and not llama and not Mongoose. Who then? Anyone have anything else that they've noticed that could lead to a baddie?

I don't know. It's a tough one. Lizzy has been uncharcteristically subdued this game, don't you think?

[juliets]

Compared to the last game I was in with her yes! Is the style I saw in that last game indicative of her normal style? She was all over the place talking about mafia tradition and god I can't remember what else.

[Mongoose]

So, not Hedgeowl and not llama and not Mongoose. Who then? Anyone have anything else that they've noticed that could lead to a baddie?

I don't know. It's a tough one. Lizzy has been uncharcteristically subdued this game, don't you think?

I have also noticed Lizzy's absence, but she said something earlier in the week about internet connectivity problems. I don't know if that's still relevant though.

It is rather odd that we've both been off each other's radar until this game where we are both getting simultaneous (and non-retaliatory) pings on one another. We are going to feel awfully silly in end game if I find out you're civ and you finally find out I am.

That said, let me posit this forth to you, my dear friend: How do you feel about burning huts?

[Snow Dog]

I am also satisfied with Hedgeowl's answer. LLama I'm not sure. Would have to reread him.

[Vompatti]

I'd vote MP, but for some reason he always seems like a baddie to me, even when he's a civ, so maybe I shouldn't vote for him. But I don't feel like voting Hedge, Mongoose or Llama either.

Lizzy hasn't posted since she went to the Mayor's hut. I hope the Mayor isn't keeping her as a prisoner.

[Mongoose]

FYI: Google Image search for "Llama baiting" ended with hilarious results. I've been looking at them this entire time since I posted last.

linki Vomp - Interesting idea, Vomp. I wonder if Coach Z has a prisoner.

[thellama73]

That said, let me posit this forth to you, my dear friend: How do you feel about burning huts?

I am generally opposed to wanton destruction of property of any kind. If the huts do not belong to the burner, this is vandalism and by extension, theft. If the huts belong to the burner, there is no moral reason to object, but it still seems wasteful and I would suspect some sort of insurance fraud may be at hand. Then there is the danger of collateral damage. Huts tend to be located in places with lots of plant life, so a fire is a particularly bad idea. If you must destroy the hut, better to do so by dismantling it so that the pieces might be used for something else.

Others may argue that burning huts creates jobs for the hut makers and that the practice is therefore good for the economy. This is the classic, yet surprisingly persistent, Broken Window Fallacy. Yes, the hut maker will be happy, but the money required to pay him for his services would otherwise have been used for other things. Suppose I, the owner of a hut, had set aside $300 to buy a new suit. Then my hut burns down and I have to use the money instead to buy a new hut. I now have only a hut instead of a hut and $300. The hutmaker has money for his services, but the tailor does not. Overall, our community is worse off for the destruction.

I've also lately come to the conclusion that the destruction of anything without good reason is a bad thing. I was engaged in a debate about animal rights with a friend who likes hunting, and while I don't believe animals have rights as such, I think they should be respected and not harmed unless there is a good reason (food is a good reason.) Throughout the ensuing chain of logic, I came to realize that I feel similarly about trees and even rocks. Why destroy what took millions of years for nature to produce unless it serves some purpose? It just seems like bad policy to me.

In sum, don't burn huts.

[Mongoose]

That said, let me posit this forth to you, my dear friend: How do you feel about burning huts?

I am generally opposed to wanton destruction of property of any kind. If the huts do not belong to the burner, this is vandalism and by extension, theft. If the huts belong to the burner, there is no moral reason to object, but it still seems wasteful and I would suspect some sort of insurance fraud may be at hand. Then there is the danger of collateral damage. Huts tend to be located in places with lots of plant life, so a fire is a particularly bad idea. If you must destroy the hut, better to do so by dismantling it so that the pieces might be used for something else.

Others may argue that burning huts creates jobs for the hut makers and that the practice is therefore good for the economy. This is the classic, yet surprisingly persistent, Broken Window Fallacy. Yes, the hut maker will be happy, but the money required to pay him for his services would otherwise have been used for other things. Suppose I, the owner of a hut, had set aside $300 to buy a new suit. Then my hut burns down and I have to use the money instead to buy a new hut. I now have only a hut instead of a hut and $300. The hutmaker has money for his services, but the tailor does not. Overall, our community is worse off for the destruction.

I've also lately come to the conclusion that the destruction of anything without good reason is a bad thing. I was engaged in a debate about animal rights with a friend who likes hunting, and while I don't believe animals have rights as such, I think they should be respected and not harmed unless there is a good reason (food is a good reason.) Throughout the ensuing chain of logic, I came to realize that I feel similarly about trees and even rocks. Why destroy what took millions of years for nature to produce unless it serves some purpose? It just seems like bad policy to me.

In sum, don't burn huts.

Love it. <3

You don't seem BTSCy, so I guess you're probably not Torgdor either.

[timmer]

strughling to piat onky one bar. I'm teying to kwep cyrrent.

[thellama73]

Timmer, is your avatar a role hint?

[Mongoose]

He couldn't do that, Shirley. Right?

[borokkuei]

Man, I am so behind. I wish I had the time to read over all of the pages of posts so I can figure out who I hate. I guess the safest option now is to hate everyone and vote at random, eh?