Homestar Runner [Day 13]

[thellama73]

Wht the hell? It's been like 7 hours into the day? You're hardly voting in self defense. You dont' even have a vote yet, do you???

There are different types of self-defense. You saw one type from me yesterday. I only survived because of luck, so I'm trying a different type today.

You've made that abundantly clear. Anything new to add? Simply posting quotes and eyes doesn't seem productive to me.

[S~V~S]

Wht the hell? It's been like 7 hours into the day? You're hardly voting in self defense. You dont' even have a vote yet, do you???

There are different types of self-defense. You saw one type from me yesterday. I only survived because of luck, so I'm trying a different type today.

Dom, I respect you eye (no pun intended, lol). Can you explain what about this post gave you this reaction?

[S~V~S]

Because to be totally honest, I am not seeing a baddie Llama, like not AT ALL. And there is a very serious push against him, and I am not really seeing why. It's mostly "meh" tone stuff and Wifomy woulda/coulda stuff.

I have read all of the cases and they seem kinda contrived, like the people writing them WANT Llama to be bad. I don't think llama sounds bad, I don't think BDH sounds bad. I don't necessarily thing they sound civ, but seriously, I am not seeing the overt baddieism many of you seem to be.

or maybe thats the more vocal people? Less vocal people, what is your opinion?

I DO think Hedgeowl sounds bad. Why exactly did y'all just say "OK, Hedgie, we buy your defenses" on Day Two? It isn't very clear to me in the posts. Or again, is this just the more vocal people?

[thellama73]

I DO think Hedgeowl sounds bad. Why exactly did y'all just say "OK, Hedgie, we buy your defenses" on Day Two? It isn't very clear to me in the posts. Or again, is this just the more vocal people?

I'm willing to entertain the possibility that she suckered me. Her last plea for her life just struck me as sincere. I know her IRL, and if that was a ploy then it was a really good one (and I will never be able to trust her again. )

You may be right. I've been deceived before.

[Hedgeowl]

OMFG! Why? Why? It took an hour to catch up on posts since this afternoon.

I was brought several times by MP, SVS, and Mata (nice fowl humor btw )

I was "dropped" as a suspect because people accurately read my defense as sincere. MP agreed (has hosted me as a baddie), llama agreed (knows me in rl, has accused me of baddieness every game, and hosted me as bad), Snow agreed (played on a baddie team with me), juliets agreed, and bwt sort of agreed, but he's not sure (maybe played in every game I have so far?).

This is of course not proof, and MP has questioned himself several times on this, but I believe SVS or Mata asked why no one followed up on me. I was also in the midst of a failing civ defense in another game (first time lynched as a civ in 5 games) and tried to be as straight forward in this game as possible, so as not to make the same mistakes. I hope this helps and am here for any questions.

As for the MP vs BDH-Llama debate I am definitely going to need to reread a bit. My head is a mess from the back and forth accusations. I dont currently think BDH is a baddie and was surprised that MP seemed to think he had "caught" him as an obvious baddie. Llama I am not sure on and agree his game is different this time, but I have a blindspot for him too. This early vote was strange cause if you really are concerned about your life over anothers dont you hold your vote?

Dom- why have you ignored or dismissed my posts? I am starting to feel invisible or are you trying to hide from me?

Linki- what about my posts sound bad SVS?

Llama, you accused me of being a russian spy for most of our childhood! Have you ever really trusted me?

[thellama73]

llama agreed (knows me in rl, has accused me of baddieness every game, and hosted me as bad)

Llama, you accused me of being a russian spy for most of our childhood! Have you ever really trusted me?

You weren't bad in that game!

I had actually totally forgotten about that! Your cover is deep indeed

[S~V~S]

Actually, Hedge, I posted about you quite a bit in my catch up. I will pull quotes tomorrow, I need to sleep

[Hedgeowl]

llama agreed (knows me in rl, has accused me of baddieness every game, and hosted me as bad)

Llama, you accused me of being a russian spy for most of our childhood! Have you ever really trusted me?

You weren't bad in that game!

I had actually totally forgotten about that! Your cover is deep indeed

Everyone thought Vomps and I were bad though and we had btsc, so it felt like it a bit.

Svs - i play most an ipad, but when I get to a computer tomorrow I can look back at your posts and address them more directly. I am off to bed tonight though.

[Captain Bunny Killer]

Quick update: I am tentatively hoping my computer is recovering from its deadly illness. So, I'm catching up just a tiny bit (just a few pages). But I am moving back to college Tue/Wed, so life will definitely be hectic soon.
I have been keeping up for the most part though, and frankly I feel like I don't know which way is up. More thoughts soon... hopefully.

[thellama73]

Also, I didn't even mention you as suspicious until Day 2. I mentioned you ONCE before that and it was only to ask you for clarification regarding your posts in succession. If you don't believe me, refer to my post here: http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 097#p33097

Should I be like you and say "Lies."?

I didn't check this before responding, but I did just now, and this is the second time you've asked people to verify something that isn't true. In addition to the consecutive-posts-checking you mention, you also said you might vote for me on Day 1.
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 577#p31577

Not a big thing on its own, but I have to wonder why you left that bit of information out of your post. You must have seen it if you were searching through your own posting record.

[Draconus]

a bit of good wifi finally...

some comments about recent oosts whike this kasts...

I think bdh is wrong about mp. I don't really know bdh or his game byt mp is always this takkative imo. I'm not sure what vdh is seeing is vad.


more than that I'm now confkicted abiut devon. he seems to have gone from a lynch target to being so goofy that now ge isn't? or am I misreading? I have fekt that this is normsl devon chattiness/goofiness byt now that people aeent looking his way as much I'm paradoxically tirn. will hope this gets through.

On the contrary. I wish someone would just kill me and get it over with. The petty shit that I got sick of at the start of the game seems to be picking back up again.

[Captain Bunny Killer]

So, I can't really add anything specific as far as quotes and stuff right now. Honestly, I still haven't dropped some of my earlier suspicions, but some of them have just been eclipsed by this nearly one-to-one fight to the death. I have to say, I don't trust either llama or MP as far as I could throw them, and it's not just because they're going at each other. I've seen MP make statements that seem too assuming about "our cause" and "us civvies." Yeah, I just don't ever believe statements that just come across as "of course you're going to go along with me." Hopefully that's not a lame argument that I'll get over, but it just seems forced (and he's not the only one who's done it).
Anyway, llama has just seemed all over the place. And he's not alone. I just feel like a lot of this main conversation is really directed, as in people are definitely working together to drive things. Maybe it's bc you guys know each other, but sometimes there's just group assumptions that I totally missed--ie: who was in the animal sanctuary, which I'm guessing was partly joke as well. But it also seemed to show up in the rapid-fire tangent suspects that came up between the big talkers right after the whole Mongoose/llama/I don't who else debates. Gosh, I hope this makes sense to someone, because I am freakin tired and need to pack my whole life up tomorrow.

[Matahari]

Devin, sometimes the petty shit is just something someone else felt like they needed to say What in particular are you referring to?

Ive reread the first fifteen pages, and kept up with the last 5 or thereabouts, and ive firgotten half of what i wanted to comment on. the long posts are a bit tedious to read and tend to be distracting. I don't know if that is the purpose of making so many long posts, or if the people doing it really feel the need to say so much.

Anyway, my point in the reread was to see who defended elohcin, and to try getting a grip on MP's turnabout on the day 0 poll stuff.

Bea, hedgeowl, and Juliet's all said almost the same thing: why are people voting elohcin for randomizing? I don't think anyone ever said that they were voting elohcin because she randomized. I'd like to know where that notion came from, because it smacks of chat room talk to me.

On the whole 'lets talk about info on the poll, and then let's don't talk about it'- something is just not right about that whole thing. It was suddenly bad to talk about it because it would out civvies to the baddies. The last time I was a baddie, everyone was my teams enemy- I didn't give a rats ass whether we killed a civvie or a baddie on the other team, or an Indy. As long as no one on my team got killed. Everyone else needed to die.

So all this talk about protecting the civvies seemed more like a diversion, or a scare tactic to shut down discussion. I wondered why and if it was to actually protect a baddie from being discovered. Snow and bullz both admitted to getting info about which option they needed to win, in order to win something, but only one of them actually won something. If, (just an if) the castle was the civvie option, then bullz voted a non civvie option. If castle wasn't a civvie option, then snow admitted freely that he won info, which somehow doesn't seem like a likely thing to volunteer if you're a non-civvie. This makes me want to keep an eye on bullz just a bit.

Lastly, I'm not sure i trust hedgeowl. I haven't finished reading her yet, at the page I stopped on she seemed to be defending Elohcin.

[Matahari]

dex and indiglo need a replacement player at hedville, Mafia of the Absurd, and the replacement wins a prize! Tell 'em I sent ya!

[Dom]

Wht the hell? It's been like 7 hours into the day? You're hardly voting in self defense. You dont' even have a vote yet, do you???

There are different types of self-defense. You saw one type from me yesterday. I only survived because of luck, so I'm trying a different type today.

Dom, I respect you eye (no pun intended, lol). Can you explain what about this post gave you this reaction?

I don't see how it's self defense at this point? I mean, the general tide of the lynch could go in multiple directions. I, personally, am suspicious of both MP and Llama. This post from llama seems just so... jumpy. No one has even voted for him today. I'm considering a vote towards MP, his aggressor. I cannot be the only one that might not vote for him again. I just find it strange that he feels like he's already in a position where he can't vote for his biggest suspicion, but rather, he's voting to save his life?
I don't understand. It doesn't add up. The day was about 7 hours old at that point, and you're voting in self defense?

I DO think Hedgeowl sounds bad. Why exactly did y'all just say "OK, Hedgie, we buy your defenses" on Day Two? It isn't very clear to me in the posts. Or again, is this just the more vocal people?

I'm willing to entertain the possibility that she suckered me. Her last plea for her life just struck me as sincere. I know her IRL, and if that was a ploy then it was a really good one (and I will never be able to trust her again. )

You may be right. I've been deceived before.

Agreed. I could be wrong, but I found her defense to be convincing. Especially since I was just wrong about her in your game, SVS.

Dom- why have you ignored or dismissed my posts? I am starting to feel invisible or are you trying to hide from me?

Did I miss something? Please tell me if I did. Keeping up with this game is kind of hard for me, and I often lose track of things. Please let me know what you'd like me to address and I'll gladly do so.

SVS, if you feel differently about Hedgie, I'd like to hear about it a little more

[agleaminranks]

Good word, you guys keep busy.

Brevity is not my strong suite, but I don't think I could usurp Socky even if I tried. So bear with me.

Llama didn't do much to arouse my suspicion for the first few turns but now has me the most concerned, primarily regarding the daytime lynch. The result isn't terribly suspicious in and of itself, and frankly, of the roles whose abilities are made public, there are two civilians and one baddie role that are lynch-safe. The odds would actually be more in your favor in that regard. This is what really bugs me:

I'm not an unlynchable baddie. After reading the roles I can only conclude that some kind soul stopped the lynch on my behalf. Thank you, kind soul!

Dude, what?

So many things wrong with this. I cannot fathom a single reason why some other non-teammate player would take a gamble and lynch-block a random player. Highly suspish of BTSC. Not only that, but your rampant sidestepping of the issue and quick latching on to a pretty innocent observation by A Person looks incredibly diversionary. I can't fault you for voting early and butting heads with Alex given his twenty-pronged assault on your case, but the rest of this speaks pretty damningly in my eyes. I'll withhold a vote until it gets a little closer to the wire, but I can say with a fair degree of certainty that the llama will be receiving my lynch vote.

Looking at the reverse of that last point, I've never had an easy time gauging Alex in any game because his incessant walls of text and hypercritical analysis essays in these threads seem all but guaranteed regardless of his role. That being said, he seems a bit more nonplussed than usual when he's receiving just as much scrutiny as he's been doling out this game, from multiple players nonetheless. Am I reading a bit of overconfidence? I don't know what that could signify, though role security is the first thing that comes to mind. I've got nothing solid other than a fleeting intuition but it's something I'll be keeping a wandering eye upon.

Also, Devin's given me another reason to be weary of his alignment:

I will say this, though. I wouldn't be surprised that the reason we didn't see a NK from TGS is that they tried to kill me and failed.

Now, discuss

Either way, I missed the deadline and didn't send in a PM and am still alive.

Devin, a person missed a pm, do you know for certain that you were targeted last night for a kill?

Nope. Just a hunch. I was unaware of any missing PMs.

This sounds hella revealing to me. I find it weird that you'd come to this conclusion on merely a hunch, even in light of your favor among the lynch votes the day prior. I'm looking at the roles and barring any possible hidden abilities, I see three roles with nightkill prevention or blocking abilities: one on the civilian team, one on Blue Laser, and one in Teen Girl Squad. Strictly mathematically speaking, those odds aren't in your favor.

Also, quick turnaround vote for you as well. You make a good point that lynching Vomps would indeed be very telling of alignments and that's something I may try to exploit soon, but I don't know what to make of your vote other than simple retaliation. I'm inclined to believe it was just sloppy behavior.

Cool, now I'm up way later than I had planned. Damn this damnable game.

[bea]

Good grief, it's hard to catch up in this game. I started trying back when svs made her last post, and then more posts/ accusations to catch up on, then more, until I've almost forgotten where I started. I'm going to weigh in now, before trying to catch up again.

First let me say that I'm sorry I can't do multi quotes. I am completely on an iPhone, and each time I start a quite post, I have to transfer between screens, when I grab a quote, and go back to my screen with the post, it starts over and whatever I had in there is gone. Sucks. If its very important, I can do a lot of 1 quote posts, boosting my post count unfairly, but if I'm mentioning just pings, I'll try to just address people in one post.

So here goes: svs, I'd like to hear your opinion on Bea. It would be nice to move her off my ping list, if other people trust her. She made the one response to my post to her, saying that she might not have noticed my original post, then she was removed from the poll. Then she got fairly quiet after that. That us one reason why she is still a ping for me, because I feel like she is trying not to attract attention. I don't know if that is for a good or bad reason, so I'm interested in opinions about bea's style of playing.

Mp- at one point, you stated that you were leaning 1% civvie on mongoose, but by the end of your post, you said mongoose was not getting your vote that day. 99% non-civvie seems like a powerful incentive to lynch someone, I don't understand your thinking here.

Ok, there's more but I forgot it. I'll be back after I read back a little.

I didn't say I might have missed it, I said I flat out missed it. Hence why I thought it was my calling you out that made you reply. Also - I was in the cups and overly tired and up way tooo late - which is also evidenced by how attacky I was at Dom as well that night.

I have asked the hostess with the mostest if I could talk about the poll removal - and I was told no. I assume any other people who are removed from the poll in the future will be told the same way.

I grew quiet because a) I'm now in 3 games. and b) I work an asston of hours (almost 50 this week). Like you, I'm doing the best I can, and while I realize I shouldn't drink and mafia, a gal's gotta multi-task her free time where she can ya know?

[bea]

Ok - so apparently my catch up tonight is going to be posts at a time -

That said - RIP Borok. Because that's the thing I was missing in my last post.

I have some thoughts on llama and Person, but I'm still watching it develop.

Now, as to my current suspicions and thoughts... Llama is at the top of my list. If I had to vote now, I would be voting for him again today. I was largely unsure of him before, but something in my gut is making me feel just more and more sure that he is not on our side this game. That said, I am not positive at all, still, as it's almost impossible to be, especially at this stage -- so I'm glad I don't have to vote now. I'm trying to avoid railroading him, but I'm really, really feeling strong about him, so I'm trying to balance the OMG civvie gut "LLAMA MUST BE BAD" Alex with the rational and cautious Alex. It is proving to be difficult. Yes, my mafia self is bi-polar, or something.

There are others as well... I am very wary of juliets, Vompatti, and even Devin, as I'm just unable to decipher their intentions. Additionally, I am starting to wonder if we have been psyched out by Hedgeowl. There was this huge movement against her, orchestrated by llama, with many players saying she seemed most worthy of a vote, and then... NO votes on Day 2. Absolutely none. And hardly anyone is talking about her now. So maybe I was wrong in her intentions and she is lying her ass off, and well. I don't know.

Another thing is I think we should look more closely at players who latched onto Devin and llama yesterday.

It's possible I might go any of those ways, or as the day develops, something else more strong will come up.

I must admit, BWT is starting to catch my eye as well. He voted for llama yesterday and his thoughts seem very with-the-crowd and flip floppy. That being said, I have a terrible track record of reading him, despite knowing him very well IRL, so I really just want to open up discussion on him and see what others think.

I am almost tempted to vote Devin, but I fear he is not the unlynchable baddie, and I really don't know what he is doing here. I don't think we should waste our time on him regardless of whether he is lying or civvie or baddie or whatever.

Additionally, quiet players need to speak more. I might even be tempted to go with Gleam or DFaraday and others, or to at the very least throw their names around. I very highly doubt I'll vote any way here, but hey, anything could happen.

I strongly feel that Matt F is not a Teen Girl Squad baddie in this game. I could be wrong, as he is very hard to read, but of anyone in the game, I think I "trust" him the most at this moment. He could very well be a Blue Laser or Trogdor, and so I'm far from advocating his civvieness, but I want to say this because I find it weird there was a bit of a push in his direction towards the end of Day 2 and such. Whether it was by civvies or baddies or both, I think it might be misguided.

FWIW, I am seeing normal A Person behavior, nothing to tell me whether he is civvie or baddie. I honestly have no idea. I find it odd llama is beginning to make a mountain out of a molehill already here (more on this later).

Regardless, I really, really want feedback on everything. I don't want to railroad llama or anyone else, so if you guys think I'm way off here or if you agree or have anything to say at all, I don't care, just tell me.




Despite what llama has said, I have pointed out quotes or instances from him that make me feel uneasy. Considering he has 128 posts this game and I don't have all the time in the world, I am not going to do my classic-going-through-his-posts-and-telling-you-guys-how-suspicious-he-is-case-building-thing that I do as a civvie (and try to copycat as a baddie), especially since I believe that leads to my own tunnel vision.

However, I do believe llama is manipulating the thread, and he's doing a fantastic job of it. His suspicions, in reality, are all over the place. He also is trying to appear as logical as possible, when in reality, he is exhibiting occasional behavior that is blatantly in the face of what he should know from playing mafia now for as long as he has (and he has exhibited knowledge of these items in other games). This is the clincher for me. It just seems so off. And lastly, especially if Devin is a civvie, the way things went down in Day 2 don't look very good for llama, it must be said, but that's just my take on the matter. He comes up with a pretty arbitrary reason to vote for Devin, tries to make it seem as convincing as possible, then BOOM, votes bandwagon onto him out of nowhere. It struck me as so insincere, all of it.

I can't believe people are taking that crazy, rambling post by Matt F seriously. It's just a bunch of imagined conversations that might have taken place in BTSC. Anyone can do that. I can imagine Matt F in BTSC saying "dude! I'm going to make a long and rambling post linking llama and dom and juliets and it will be hilarious." See? Easy.

I am not bad, I have no BTSC, and if I am lynched I suspect there will be much han wringing and gnashing of teeth among the civilians. I beg my friends in the animal sanctuary not to let this injustice stand.

Also, why are BDH and BWT telling ghost stories?

Dom agrees with me here. I pointed out this post of llama's in a previous post of mine, but thought it deserved to be looked at again. Why would a civvie llama say this? It pings me greatly as completely insincere. Llama, of all people, should recognize that Matt F is behaving the way he is, and that he very well could be a civvie.

In fact, llama has recognized this fact in many games before, and even gave S~V~S the BOTD big time in Mario when she was railrorading Nevinera (all three of which were civvies, it should be said), and realized that civvies can be wrong about civvies.

He doesn't seem to be displaying this bit of information here.

Additionally, llama seems to think that civvies can't make logical fallacies:

I've thought about the hut problem some more. The best strategy is not merely to send in a PM. The best strategy is to convince everyone else not to send in a PM, and then send in one yourself. This drastically increases the chance of survival.

For this reason, I may consider a vote for A Person today.

That would be a good idea, but since it's done in secret I'd have no way of knowing if people actually do it.

It doesn't matter. Every person who doesn't send in a PM increases the survival chances of those who do. So even if only a few people followed your advice, it would still benefit you.

What benefit would A Person have in coming out in the thread and speculating as he has? It's possible he is Trogdor, but the WIFOM associated with that is so strong, and any mafia veteran knows that it's better to NOT attract suspicion when you have an SK role like that, especially in a game like this where Trogdor cannot be traced by whom he kills. He only picks a hut and it kills someone in that hut, so he can't even be traced by his kill targets, something he can use to his advantage. So why would Trogdor come out in the thread and try to influence the way anyone is behaving with regards to Trogdor PMs? There is no reason for him to.

There is a civvie and a baddie explanation for A Person's behavior. Having known A Person very well over the years, I can testify that it seems completely normal for him, and I do not understand how it is telling of alignment.

Yet llama jumps out of the gate and tries to start this bullshit suspicion of him. Llama comes up with all kinds of wacky theories, but they usually have a twisted sense of logic behind them.

What kind of logic is behind this?

This suspicion of his really bothers me because you would think llama would want to assist in looking at players who are bandwagoning, or something more concrete. This suspicion is just so ridiculous IMO.

Sorry, I meant no offense. I definitely talk too little, since I have such a hard time deciding/keeping track of everything.

Ha, no worries; everyone knows it's true.

That said, back to baddie hunting -- so if Hedge, Llama and I are all going to be safe on the animal sanctuary, where does that leave us in terms of suspects?

I think I'm leaning towards Lizzy at this point. She is playing radically different than both other games I've had with her (and I know she is around because she signed up for Sherlock.)

linki Lizzy: thanks for proving my point.

This is the ONLY time he's mentioned Lizzy. He has said nothing about her ever before or since. Don't believe me? Go through his posts.

He did the same type of thing with Hedgeowl. Said he was all ready to vote for her, then conveniently waited until after I said she seemed sincere, and then agreed and did not even vote for her.

While I'm still reading, Juliet, please address your first two posts in the game, and also please explain why you think me and Lizzy are bad, but are voting for Gleam.

Thank you!

Looking forward to the lynch post. If I am wrong here, which I don't think I am, I will obviously have to reevaluate my opinion of Dom.

Juliet...not so much.

Already preparing excuses for when I flip civ, I see.

Posts like these just seem sarcastic, a bit snarky, and totally unlike civvie llama, at least how I have seen. Those who played Bioshock, think about it. Llama's posts in that game were incredibly insightful, gallant, and he was more than willing to consider all the possibilities. I am just not seeing that llama here. At all. And it's really bothering me.

Lastly, the thing that's bothering me the most is that he keeps shrugging off all the suspicions against him as completely unexplained and baseless, when in fact, I've elaborated on my thoughts about him in detail. I realize my thoughts on him are far from concrete and actually pretty abstract, but here are all the times I've mentioned llama as suspicious or in a quasi-suspicious light:

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 661#p31661 Before I even said llama was worthy of any attention for being suspicious, I pointed out an observation here how his thoughts on me seemed to waffle and contradict a bit. He responded and said they are compatible. Up until this point, I actually talked back and forth with llama a bunch, giving him the BOTD before judging his intentions.
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 231#p32231 I said I was feeling wary of llama here and said it was pretty much mostly gut. I even tell him I know it's hard to defend against.
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 312#p32312 I addressed him twice here. Nothing substantial, but it's something.
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 349#p32349 Here is my Day 2 vote for llama. It elaborates as to my exact interpretation of his actions. I explain that I had to vote early for RL reasons and I told him it wasn't much at all, but it was gut, so I had to listen to it.
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 584#p32584 Now here I explained I have already given specific instances, such as his suspicion mongering, and provide that he read very much like a baddie stuck in a corner last lynch, etc.

That last quote especially is consequently why it bugs me when llama then says to S~V~S that he's unsure why I even suspect him. Before that, OK, maybe, and before the last two or three quotes, sure, I totally get why he doesn't understand. But surely he should see by now that I believe him to be insincere in his intentions and that I have provided instances of this?

I really want players to tell me what they think of this. I could be totally off the mark or maybe I'm onto something. I don't know. But it's what I really feel is going on, and it's unfair to keep it to myself just because I'm afraid of railroading a civvie.

Wow. Okay. I took way too long on all of this. I really have to go now and stop procrastinating on other things. The soonest I'll be back is maybe tomorrow morning (?), but more likely tomorrow at lunch since I'll be in the office.

Alex - I believe you are true in your intentions. And seeing all the many links you've posted about how you've brought him up numerous times I know you have thought this out. I remember reading the many posts you linked back to. But they all make my brain fry. Honestly, I try to keep up with you and my head spirals out of control. I'm over worked and over extended in mafia time. Please explain your case on llama to me like I'm a 3 year old. Because when I read all these posts what happens while I'm reading along is I think "wow - alex is onto something." Then llama posts something and I think "Oh - logan's right - it's totally gut." It all mushes in my hed and I don't like that.

I italicized because I understand I'm being wordy here too. I wanted to make sure you got the thing I was asking for.

[bea]

It wouldn't matter if your teammates lie to you, as long as you sent a PM. Your explanations make increasingly little since.

Sense when? I just think you have roughly the same chance of dying with the hut thing and just randomly choosing someone to die.

Scents my sniffer is detecting something foul here. Isn't everything chosen very randomly? How could anyone predict anything?

This is a very good point mata. Are you thinking they are talking about something that seems important but not really - to keep us from talking about suspects? Or am I missing something?

[bea]

It wouldn't matter if your teammates lie to you, as long as you sent a PM. Your explanations make increasingly little since.

Sense when? I just think you have roughly the same chance of dying with the hut thing and just randomly choosing someone to die.

Yes, you have roughly the same chance with the hut thing and randomly choosing someone to die, but only if everyone agrees to your method. If anyone defects, their odds increase and yours decrease. It would be good strategy for a team to say "let's all send in our pms, and then convince other people not to. It would increase the odds for that team surviving considerably if they could get people to fall for it. Whether you then decided to lie to your team about what you actually did would make no difference.

ture, I just meant without doing the hut thing at all. Or randomly assigning huts. Without the vote being public there's no incentive to talk about it or strategize, it's just random. Unless someone were to be able to convince people to act a certain way like you said I could be, but people obviously know they'd be putting themselves in danger. It also wouldn't make sense if i was trogdor, because I'd highly doubt there is any one hut that's completely empty, and from the way I understand it, any kill is good for him.

It wouldn't matter if your teammates lie to you, as long as you sent a PM. Your explanations make increasingly little since.

Sense when? I just think you have roughly the same chance of dying with the hut thing and just randomly choosing someone to die.

Scents my sniffer is detecting something foul here. Isn't everything chosen very randomly? How could anyone predict anything?

There's no real way, but if the vote were public again, you could actively choose to bunch together or spread apart.

Matt - honestly, at this point, I'm having a hard time understanding why we are talking about Trogar and the huts when we are in a day phase and should be trying to find baddies. I get that Trogar is a threat, but as you say right up there - it's pretty random and not at all easy to beat. This all feels like conversation for the sake of conversation. Matt - who do you suspect for your vote this lynch and why? This is the conversation we need to be having tbh.

[bea]

Well, I'll be back after I've been lynched. Laters!

When he could have seriously considered he would be the one to die. Now, ask yourself, if Devin were Crackotage, and you were in his shoes, would you use your lynch stop, especially if you had two? Damn sure I know I would.

It's even possible that Devin is Homsar and knew he will never be lynched. It would actually make a lot of sense given that he is playing a wacky game and posting a ton. Think about it: he is not exactly trying to draw attention to himself, but he seems to think it is harmless.

On the flipside, it is also possible Devin is Cheerleader. But for Devin to be Homsar and Cheerleader, there had to be at least some level of vote manipulation taking place here. The only way that could happen would be the civvie role that has two votes cast his or her second vote for Devin OR one of the secrets. Therefore, those possibilities are less likely.

I think the most plausible explanations for what happened on Day 2 are either of the following:
- Devin decided to stop the lynch, fearing he would die, even though by the end of the period he did not have the most votes.
- llama is Homesar or the Cheerleader. However, his behavior does not seem to match either of these, so if I had to guess, definitely I would say the Cheerleader. Also, I still believe him to be bad, perhaps even more so now, but more on that later.

There are many possibilities, in fact, but I believe both of those to be the most likely.

No, I would have actually died. I just didn't care. I still don't tbh. But if you try to lynch me today, it will not work. Just trust me. I have only lied once during this entire game. It would be a waste of time to try and lynch me today, so just try again tomorrow.

I will say this, though. I wouldn't be surprised that the reason we didn't see a NK from TGS is that they tried to kill me and failed.

Now, discuss

What makes you so sure you were their target?

Maybe they targeted someone else who was protected?

One of the things I've learned is that no matter WHAT my role is - I don't know half of what I think I know at any given time.

I'm sure all of this is explained a few more posts ahead - just trying to post my thoughts as I'm having them and reading the 3 page wall of text.

[bea]

My main suspicion still lies with Moving Pictures and the following post he made makes it even worse for him in my eyes:

When he could have seriously considered he would be the one to die. Now, ask yourself, if Devin were Crackotage, and you were in his shoes, would you use your lynch stop, especially if you had two? Damn sure I know I would.

It's even possible that Devin is Homsar and knew he will never be lynched. It would actually make a lot of sense given that he is playing a wacky game and posting a ton. Think about it: he is not exactly trying to draw attention to himself, but he seems to think it is harmless.

On the flipside, it is also possible Devin is Cheerleader. But for Devin to be Homsar and Cheerleader, there had to be at least some level of vote manipulation taking place here. The only way that could happen would be the civvie role that has two votes cast his or her second vote for Devin OR one of the secrets. Therefore, those possibilities are less likely.

I think the most plausible explanations for what happened on Day 2 are either of the following:
- Devin decided to stop the lynch, fearing he would die, even though by the end of the period he did not have the most votes.
- llama is Homesar or the Cheerleader. However, his behavior does not seem to match either of these, so if I had to guess, definitely I would say the Cheerleader. Also, I still believe him to be bad, perhaps even more so now, but more on that later.

There are many possibilities, in fact, but I believe both of those to be the most likely.

He started off the game worrying about the TINIEST chance that a civilian role would be compromised during the "Day 1 info" discussions, and now he's basically throwing out players names and the civilian roles he believes them to be! Yes, he gives potential other baddie options, but his entire ideology/strategy seems to be going back and forth and all over the place.

Nice to meet you Hero, you make sense to me. Certain things should not be discussed in the thread; saying "There are civvie reasons for survival" should be enough. I am sure the baddies read the roles, they don't need the civvies pointing things out for them, lol. This is the kind of thing you post in your baddie chatroom, trying to figure out who is who. You don't post it in the thread. But then, MP & I never see eye to eye (although i am old enough to be his Mom, he reminds me of my Dad, the Libertairian Accountant, and I tend to relate to him that way). I have to go back and read his wall'o'texts to have a serious opinion on him.

I just walked in the door, I have to do some stuff, then I will get back in here. But a quick "I have been thinking about this all afternoon at Target & Stop & Shop" post~

At this point, I have my strongest bad feelings about Hedgeowl & Mongoose; if I had to vote this second, it would be for Hedgeowl. In my readback, she dodged a bullet very nicely, and TBH, i don't particularly buy it.

As for the Llama voters, I feel pretty good about BWT, Devin & Snow (or at least not horrible, lol) I am on the fence about Matt, and Waffly, "OMG I DON"T KNOW WHAT I BELIEVE" MP always strikes me as bad. CBK, based on her posts alone, is a bit pingy. I do not know if Daisy cherry picks at all, but I know I would very likely put my fairly noobish sister in BTS with my boyfriend in a heartbeat. Who would take better care of her?

BUT...BUT...BUT...

I don't base decisions on stuff like that, its just a bit of info to process. But the whole "CBK hasn't even posted once", then there she is thing was a bit odd.

@Mata, I tend to distrust Bea quite often. I distrust her here. My opinion on her, IMO, is not all that valuable. Just like DH always thinks I am bad, I always think Bea is bad. So anything I have to say about her, keep that in mind.

But yeah, I have to finish my catch up, but then I plan to reread Hedgie.

I feel like I have to address your CBK concerns. Avant was her first game. She was my baddie teammate. We have no bts in this game, but as well you know me she is forever my puppy. (CBK - this is NOT a bad thing.) In her first game, her disabilities came out bts. And we all had very long talks about them. I was in favor of making her sight issues public because it does affect how people will read her. I'm happy to see that in this game CBK had followed my advice. IDK if she is civ or bad this game. But I know how hard it is for her to actually play the game. And the very fact that she keeps wanting to makes me all kinda proud of her.

[Snow Dog]

Good word, you guys keep busy.

Brevity is not my strong suite, but I don't think I could usurp Socky even if I tried. So bear with me.

Llama didn't do much to arouse my suspicion for the first few turns but now has me the most concerned, primarily regarding the daytime lynch. The result isn't terribly suspicious in and of itself, and frankly, of the roles whose abilities are made public, there are two civilians and one baddie role that are lynch-safe. The odds would actually be more in your favor in that regard. This is what really bugs me:

I'm not an unlynchable baddie. After reading the roles I can only conclude that some kind soul stopped the lynch on my behalf. Thank you, kind soul!

Dude, what?

So many things wrong with this. I cannot fathom a single reason why some other non-teammate player would take a gamble and lynch-block a random player. Highly suspish of BTSC. Not only that, but your rampant sidestepping of the issue and quick latching on to a pretty innocent observation by A Person looks incredibly diversionary. I can't fault you for voting early and butting heads with Alex given his twenty-pronged assault on your case, but the rest of this speaks pretty damningly in my eyes. I'll withhold a vote until it gets a little closer to the wire, but I can say with a fair degree of certainty that the llama will be receiving my lynch vote.

.

A civ with the lynch block may have found out his identity and that he was civ. He may have got this information somehow. I only say this as a possiblity. I would save a civ if I knew he was civ. On the other hand I don't find anyone in the thread defending him.

[bea]

MP, I think you're spot on with Llama. He's been extra dismissive.

Nah, I haven't. Let's move on, shall we?

Case and point.

OK, even I knew this was sarcastic, lol.

@Llama, the orange is your friend lol

Same question to ALL of you. No more free passes. I want opinions, dammit!

Shouldn't this be in Hyperbole Italics? I can see you pounding your fist onto the desk as punctuation as you type this, lol.

Linki @ MP, I don't think either of them is bad, at least not based on their posts.

I agree with svs here. I still don't quite understand why you think llama is bad (again please explain it to me like I'm a 3 year old and I've seen nothing from BDH that would make me think he's bad. He just seems very much like a new player who has some inate skill at it - going after what he thinks is the best option. Why is he wrong MP?

[bea]

OK, even I knew this was sarcastic, lol.

@Llama, the orange is your friend lol

It took me years to agree to use smileys. I'm certainly not going to use colors now.

Nothing spoils a good joke like a tag that says "THIS IS A JOKE. ISN'T IT FUNNY?"

correctly communicating your thoughts is no laughing matter. see wot I did dere?

[Snow Dog]

MP has no evidence besides his read of him this game, Bea. Foe example his not giving the benefit of doubt to people by thinking they are bad rather than misinformed or just civs who came to wrong conclusions.

[Snow Dog]

OK, even I knew this was sarcastic, lol.

@Llama, the orange is your friend lol

It took me years to agree to use smileys. I'm certainly not going to use colors now.

Nothing spoils a good joke like a tag that says "THIS IS A JOKE. ISN'T IT FUNNY?"

correctly communicating your thoughts is no laughing matter. see wot I did dere?

I agree with Llama...I WILL NOT BE USING SARCASTIC ORANGE!

[bea]

OK, even I knew this was sarcastic, lol.

@Llama, the orange is your friend lol

It took me years to agree to use smileys. I'm certainly not going to use colors now.

Nothing spoils a good joke like a tag that says "THIS IS A JOKE. ISN'T IT FUNNY?"

Nothing gets you lynched like philistines who don't recognize sarcasm when they see it. If this was clever dinner party conversation, i would agree with you 1 zillion percent, but it isn't. It's Mafia.

So if you keep getting lynched becasue no one understands your humor, don't come crying to SVS, ya hear me, bucko??!?

That said, I never really learned to use the orange either. But had I understood your sarcasm in Into the Woods, i would have backed way the hell off. And speaking of which, MP is scaring the bejeezus out of me, lol, he's kinda got his manic on.

he really does. And yes - I agree with all you tole llama up there.

[bea]

Fair enough, SVS.

I do want to say that I really think having a fresh pair of eyes on this game is useful and I am taking your comments so far very seriously. Thanks for that.

MP, the reason I voted for you so early is that you have made it clear that you will not rest until one of us is dead. I don't want it to be me. I leave it to other people to decide what they think of the discussion and who they want to believe. I'm not helping the civvie cause? Neither are you, with your llama blinders on.

llama - is your concern about MP only that he has susspected you so long and so hard for what you feel to be weak reasons? I will ask you the same question I asked MP - explain your case on him to me like I'm a 3 year old.

[Snow Dog]

I kinda answered you Bea. Well my opinion anyway.

[bea]

It also wouldn't make sense if i was trogdor, because I'd highly doubt there is any one hut that's completely empty, and from the way I understand it, any kill is good for him.

Agreed. I don't think you are Trogdor.

I don't like how this read at ALL. You spent most of that page and some of the one before going back and forth about how AP's logic didn't make any sense, and you could consider voting for him, to "Oh, I don't think you're Trogdor at all! " So either you think he's on a baddie team or civvie. To me however, this reads like you think he's civvie. I'm starting to wonder if there were more nefarious reasons for your survival.

Be back with more later.

Did I miss where he was outed as a baddie? While I agree that he has said some odd things, I do not think that that makes A Person a confirmed baddie, yet you speak as if he is. Since you are so sure he is bad, do you plan on voting for AP today?

Why do you think disagreeing with MP makes someone bad?

I would consider him on my short list of people I would currently vote for. So maybe. Whether I end up voting him or not is a different story. I will wait to see what other thread evidence comes about.

I don't think he's bad because he's disagreeing with MP. I think he's bad because he's twisting words and (I believe intentionally) misinterpreting what MP is saying. I thought I stated this before pretty clearly.

Hopefully that answers your questions.

I'm lost in linki quotes here - you are referring to llama here right?

[bea]

I don't know if I am going to be able to continue this game or not. Don't get me wrong, it's all kinds of interesting but I can't get my head wrapped around any one person being bad and I think it's because there is just too much talk. I'm going to try again tomorrow to sort through what I've read tonight and see if i can get a handle on it. If not, I will ask to be replaced.

One thing that would help a great deal is if we could keep the OT green to a minimum. Adding that on top of heavy and contentious talk just gets me stuck in "what the hell are they talking about". Coded messages have been passed in OT green in other games I've participated in so I always pay attention to them. I don't mean get rid of all of it - I don't want to be Debbie Downer but just less of it - please.

Ok, I'm getting a good nights sleep and will face this game again tomorrow.

I feel you JC.

[Snow Dog]

Why on earth does Bea seem to be ignoring me completely when I address her?

[bea]

Why on earth does Bea seem to be ignoring me completely when I address her?

sorry snow - I was trying to catch up on the pages and pages of stuff I'd missed. - I was reading a thing - quoting it - commenting on it - then backscrolling to go back to my catch up - I didn't realize you were here and trying to talk to me because I never stayed on this page long enough to see that someone was trying to talk to me.

I only caught this because I was about to go to the end where I was sure was a lot of my posts to say "I am a page away from being caught up - I can't brain anymore. I'll try again in the morning." When I saw your "why isn't bea talking to me" post. I'll look at what you had to say - and be back with thoughts.

[Spacedaisy]

SVS, I realize you asked me a lot of questions I have not answered. I am not trying to ignore you it was simply a lack of time and at the moment I am concerned my migraine from yesterday might still be lingering so I don't want to look at the screen too long, I will come back to try and answer all your questions from the thread this afternoon.

[Matt]

MP, why aren't you playing? :P

At work all day, then sick, just started reading thread, and it's taking forever.

Truth be told, I kinda agree with JC about the off-topic stuff, but whatevs. Hope you stay, JC.

Though I have more to read, I had to stop here for a moment...

Bea, hedgeowl, and Juliet's all said almost the same thing: why are people voting elohcin for randomizing? I don't think anyone ever said that they were voting elohcin because she randomized. I'd like to know where that notion came from, because it smacks of chat room talk to me.

........(snipping the rest of Mata's post)..........

Lastly, I'm not sure i trust hedgeowl. I haven't finished reading her yet, at the page I stopped on she seemed to be defending Elohcin.

Really?

U may have caught something here, Mata, didn't realize Hedgie was def Elo before voting Vomps.

Llama and MP make me nervous, both of them don't think I'm baddie but can't agree on anything else?

Each day, btw, this thread seems like it gets harder to keep up. Though I have 70+ posts of my own.

Spacedaisy, loving the game so far. 1000 posts in two days, I call success! :P

[bea]

MP has no evidence besides his read of him this game, Bea. Foe example his not giving the benefit of doubt to people by thinking they are bad rather than misinformed or just civs who came to wrong conclusions.

Yes - snow - I see exactly what you are saying here. It's kinda why in my catch up I was asking MP to explain things to me like I was a 3 year old. I feel like there is lots of talk between llama and MP that comes down to essentially "he said he said."

I said it last cycle and I'll say it again - I want anyone to point me to something concrete that makes MP bad or Llama bad that's not MP thinks llama is bad or Llama thinks MP is bad.

SVS and I know each other very well and she's had this current streak of misreading me (thank you for giving me the benefit of the doubt this time SVS) As I tried to tell the newer players fresh eyes are refreshing. I'm not one to buy into "x reads y well" so they must be right argument because I've seen it fail a million times. I've been the both the accuser and the accused.

I do admit - MP's coming out against BDH so strong raises my eyes a bit. I mean, he's been a most wonderful new player, but MP seems pretty convinced he's bad solely because BDH suspects MP of being bad and isn't swayed from that opinion. Isn't that NoU? or am I missing something?

[Snow Dog]

I should have realised you were catching up on another page Bea. as far as I see it I don't see anysolid evidence against llama besides Mp's "feel" about his post behaviour. I understand his points and they are worthwhile and am considering them.

I can't tell if MP is bad. He is always ;posting like this whichever her is. I feel he is civ though for what it's worth.

[Snow Dog]

Although one thing with Mp that still jars is is his overreaction being suspected on Day 1. idk, maybe real life had an effect in his behaviour.

[juliets]

Bea, hedgeowl, and Juliet's all said almost the same thing: why are people voting elohcin for randomizing? I don't think anyone ever said that they were voting elohcin because she randomized. I'd like to know where that notion came from, because it smacks of chat room talk to me.

Mata, I never said this. There is no mention of randomizing in my post. Here it is:

I do not understand the votes for Elo either - there was nothing I saw as of the time i went to bed last night.

I randomized low posters and got borok so that is where I'm voting.

I mentioned that I was randomizing low posters but nothing about Elo randomizing.

[Snow Dog]

My posts seem to be badly worded. I will endeavour to be more clear and lucid.

[thellama73]

llama - is your concern about MP only that he has susspected you so long and so hard for what you feel to be weak reasons? I will ask you the same question I asked MP - explain your case on him to me like I'm a 3 year old.

Hi Bea!

You are pretty much correct here. MP wants me dead. I think his case is frivolous, but others are buying it. This might mean he's a baddie, but even if he isn't, he is going to get me lynched sooner or later. My vote for him is self-defense, in the sense that me and him are like Harry Potter and He Who Must Not Be Named. Neither can live while the other survives.

I'm not encouraging a bandwagon against MP. Make up your own minds and vote how you see fit. I voted for him because he won't rest until I am dead, and I very much don't want to be dead.

[juliets]

I hate to make a longer post but I don't see any other way to answer this one. I will answer in blue again so people can distinguish my answers.

JC, here are the few posts where I was questioning your intentions as sincere or not:

llama in the games I've been a part of where people have info it is specific roles and not whole teams, however, the baddies that have the info tell their whole team. That doesn't mean everyone votes there of course because then once you've found one baddie you could go back to the day 0 vote and undo them all. I also may have misinterpreted what you were saying so this post may be off base.

That's a good point, but who says any baddies have info? Maybe only select civvies do. All I know for sure is that I do not.

That definitely would be different and perhaps daisyesque.

Here you demonstrate knowledge of what daisyesque would entail. Yet later you ask this:

Does daisy have a reputation for giving obscure clues to her players through her posts? I know not to expect the expected with her but has anyone played her games enough to notice obscure clues in her posts? This post is different from any post I have seen from a host so I really don't know what it means.

Seems contradictory.

I see what you are saying here but my first comment about begin daisyesqye was just based on Daisy's reputation for things not being what they seems. The second questions was specifically about whether she gives obscure clues. I haven't played many Daisy games - maybe one other - and I didn't know whether she gives obscure clues so I asked. The first quote was based on reputation overall and the second quote is based on one specific aspect of Daisy's hosting that I had not heard anything about.

Just to step in with my two cents, I can't add anything new to all these posts but I'll weigh in on several things.

First, I would also really, really like to hear from Hedge on her vote for Vomps. I do think it was most likely an attempt at a save but maybe there is something I'm not thinking of that would make it seem less nefarious.

I don't think Mongoose is bad at this point and think her inclusion of Elo in her remarks was not remarkable. Mongoose is a smart player and that is too much of a mistake for her to have made in my mind.

MP I'm having a small ping about you using Vomps to see what would happen - maybe i just didn't understand - and trying to get us to go down that path of 6 civvies. You've played and hosted enough to know how unbalanced that would be. With all that said though I know you are going through a lot right now and really this is the last thing you should be concerned with so I don't think I'm going to consider you until things are back to normal.

Also, I have no idea about llama in this game yet. It's still early even though there have been a beejillion posts.

Speaking of a beejillion posts I have to be honest and say I'm having a hard time keeping up with this game. It's just taking me a little time to get the pace down with the other two games I'm playing.

Then here you say you think Hedge’s vote was “most likely an attempt at a save”, but later on you don’t vote her. In fact, you agree she sounds completely sincere, then don't mention her again.

Also, you said you’re having a small ping about me, apparently, and yet you have no idea about llama. Just something to note, nothing for you to address.

I have searched my posts and cannot find a place where I "agree she sounds completely sincere". Did you find a quote where I said this? Anyway, I'll address the main point you are making. I did have a small ping about you and Hedgeowl but a small ping is not always a reason to vote someone for me. In this case I didn't feel that I had enough to vote either one of you so I didn't. I note it because I may see things in the future that build on those observations and lead me to a vote for the person, in this case you or Hedgie. I'm not sure how this would make me a baddie.

Before I change my mind again I'm voting for someone laying low - gleam. Gleam, see this as a request that you come into the game and participate more. We need all the thoughts we can get. And I am not fond of those who lay low (ask DP!). I mean that only from a game perspective.

Then I found your Day 2 vote to be possibly insincere. Especially since you seemed to indicate a small ping on me, but then why would you vote for someone on whom you had no ping over someone on whom you had a small ping, only to say later on that you didn’t find me most suspicious?

I never said I had no ping. My default is always low posters because they do ping me. If you're here and seem to be laying low you do ping me. Sometimes those pings increase if time goes by and you still don't get involved. I had mentioned at one point that low posters was my default. Gleam did get involved so my suspicion of him has dropped.

That said, I don’t think I’ll vote for you today, but I think players should keep a sharp eye on you, as well as others that I’ve mentioned previously. I would appreciate if you could address these points.

Ok, I have no problem with people keeping an eye on me. I understand why you would have these observations but I hope I have helped you understand why these things you saw really were not anything to be alarmed about. Regardless of anything else I am always sincere.

[thellama73]

Addendum to the above for Bea:
MP just doesn't seem like his normal self this game. His attack on me borders on desperate. He keeps making mistakes and saying things that aren't true. He accuses me of doing things that he himself is doing. (saying that I am suspicion mongering by bringing up several different names in a post where he calls out three or four people for possible baddieness.) He makes confused and illogical arguments (repeatedly bringing up the fact that I gave SVS the BOTD in Mario when I was not even being particularly accusing of him. He was accusing me!)

Normally his game is so much tighter than this, and it's making me nervous.

[Bullzeye]

Huge post incoming. I so rarely make them this big...

You're welcome! Welcome back!!!

2 whole pages to catch up on brb... Prewarning I may post as I go so sorry in advance.

Seriously? If you're actually telling the truth why would you admit to it? Also why/how did you do it because it makes no sense tbh. Not that I'm not grateful if you really did, I'm just curious.

Bullz, did you play Avant Garde 2? Most (if not all) of my team voted for our option and we actually won the game.... and one of us was lynched pretty early.

No, I didn't. I'm not really seeing your point here. Do you think Castle may have been a baddie option (given that a baddie voted for it and was lynched early, and it's the option that won)? I kinda do but I'm not sure yet.

All over the place, huh? I've had 2 goals this entire game:

1). Get killed.

2). Help the civs as much ass I can before I get killed.

Why do you want to die? If you're a civ you can help us better by living.

I do think Llama is a bit suspish. I do not agree with my lovely, hirsute spitting friend that your case against him was anemic.

I think the case against Vompers isn't wonderful, but I tend to be hesitant to vote him in games' early days because it is very easy to misread him.

Want to hear more from Lizzy.

I'm not sure what's up with Devin. He was candid but I am not sure why.

I think BDH plays Devil's Advocate a bit too well.

I agree with all the ones I bolded. The others I have no idea about.

Not sure that just because Bullz was rezzed that we should assume he is civ. I'm leery of all those baddie secret powers, but I don't have big suspish on him either.

Basically, I'm very unsure about nearly everybody and nearly everybody seems unsure about me.

I don't think anyone is just assuming I'm civ. I am one, so it'd be a good assumption to make, but people are welcome to be suspicious of me if that helps them sleep at night or whatever. I think the thing is though that since I'm not on the poll today trying to get me lynched would be an even bigger waste of civ time than usual. I'm sure I'll have people jumping down my neck when I'm back on the poll, I usually do when I'm this active.

S~V~S, yes, it should have been in hyperbole italics. Lol.

Wow, another vote? Lovely. My case is consistently lacking in substance? And yet you choose to throw your vote my way SO early, with so much more discussion to be had, and refuse to address so many of my other points and discussion topics?

If you truly are a civvie, llama, you are not helping our cause this game, my friend. I'm sad to say it, though it doesn't necessarily mean you deserve to die. I, for one, am actually going to attempt to help my cause as much as possible, as I have been, and I am still refraining from voting. Because why vote so early when there's still so much time?

Anyone else find this wording a tiny bit unsettling?

Interesting catch. I'm not sure what I think of MP yet and will get to that in a minute.

So all this talk about protecting the civvies seemed more like a diversion, or a scare tactic to shut down discussion. I wondered why and if it was to actually protect a baddie from being discovered. Snow and bullz both admitted to getting info about which option they needed to win, in order to win something, but only one of them actually won something. If, (just an if) the castle was the civvie option, then bullz voted a non civvie option. If castle wasn't a civvie option, then snow admitted freely that he won info, which somehow doesn't seem like a likely thing to volunteer if you're a non-civvie. This makes me want to keep an eye on bullz just a bit.

Bear in mind that there were 6 options on the poll and only four factions in the game. So there could have been more than one civ option. Only one of us actually won something because only one of our options won. At this point I think the Castle was either a civ option or Elo's team's option but I need to consider the theory more before I grab my torch and pitchfork.

dex and indiglo need a replacement player at hedville, Mafia of the Absurd, and the replacement wins a prize! Tell 'em I sent ya!

No tell them I sent ya!

Okay so...

I think some good points have been raised about Llama, particularly by MP.

Hedge I think could have been trying to save Elo on day one but that's been my only ping from her so I wouldn't be prepared to vote for her just yet.

Devin I don't think is bad. I don't see a baddie acting like him, and he said his playstyle is inspired by people like Lizzy and Dex who tend to act crazy as civs.

Lizzy, on the other hand, is too quiet for my liking and I'm beginning to wonder about her. Experience says she's more noisy as a civ.

MP I could go either way on. I'd been leaning toward trust, but I could totally see him being Llama's baddie teammate. In Mario he was the first to accuse me (we were on the same team) and he went after me pretty hard early on.

Dom I think is probably a civ.

That might be all. Let's say it is for now because this is a big post and I'm bored of writing it.

[Matahari]

Bea, hedgeowl, and Juliet's all said almost the same thing: why are people voting elohcin for randomizing? I don't think anyone ever said that they were voting elohcin because she randomized. I'd like to know where that notion came from, because it smacks of chat room talk to me.

Mata, I never said this. There is no mention of randomizing in my post. Here it is:

I do not understand the votes for Elo either - there was nothing I saw as of the time i went to bed last night.

I randomized low posters and got borok so that is where I'm voting.

I mentioned that I was randomizing low posters but nothing about Elo randomizing.

Sorry jc- I think I read way too much in one sitting yesterday, and things probably got overlapped. I should have double checked before posting, but frankly I was at a point where I was tired of looking back.

Also, thanks Bea, I feel a bit better where you are concerned too.

[juliets]

MP back to you, I must have said Hedgie was sincere because she mentions it in her post as well. I'll read my posts again and get back to you.

Mata, no worries, I posted about Princes who arent even in this game so I know all about getting things a little confused (I got them a lot confused).

[Matt]

Hmmmm

I can't explain it, but I'm suddenly getting a civvie vibe from Llama. MoPi, let me ask you a question,
how do you suppose we were picked for the football team? What connects us?

Obviously, both of us have suspected Llama. I don't see anything else, really.

Maybe someone is trying to send us a message?

Even though I could be wrong, I usually am, I find it interesting of all the players, we got the call.

Silly me, being all cryptic and whatnot.

Tell me, Llama, I'd like to hear your response to this post.

Am I crazy?

Really, I wanna know. I'm looking for a certain response to this post before I continue. Thanks!

[thellama73]

MP I could go either way on. I'd been leaning toward trust, but I could totally see him being Llama's baddie teammate.

I love this idea, and was thinking of suggesting it myself.

Can you imagine our BTSC giggles is such a thing were true?

[thellama73]

I can't explain it, but I'm suddenly getting a civvie vibe from Llama.

Thanks Matt! You rule!

Tell me, Llama, I'd like to hear your response to this post.

I don't really know what you're asking for here. Maybe your post was too cryptic for me, because I don't understand what you're getting at. You are right to lean civvie on me though.