Homestar Runner [Day 13]

[S~V~S]

My main suspicion still lies with Moving Pictures and the following post he made makes it even worse for him in my eyes:

When he could have seriously considered he would be the one to die. Now, ask yourself, if Devin were Crackotage, and you were in his shoes, would you use your lynch stop, especially if you had two? Damn sure I know I would.

It's even possible that Devin is Homsar and knew he will never be lynched. It would actually make a lot of sense given that he is playing a wacky game and posting a ton. Think about it: he is not exactly trying to draw attention to himself, but he seems to think it is harmless.

On the flipside, it is also possible Devin is Cheerleader. But for Devin to be Homsar and Cheerleader, there had to be at least some level of vote manipulation taking place here. The only way that could happen would be the civvie role that has two votes cast his or her second vote for Devin OR one of the secrets. Therefore, those possibilities are less likely.

I think the most plausible explanations for what happened on Day 2 are either of the following:
- Devin decided to stop the lynch, fearing he would die, even though by the end of the period he did not have the most votes.
- llama is Homesar or the Cheerleader. However, his behavior does not seem to match either of these, so if I had to guess, definitely I would say the Cheerleader. Also, I still believe him to be bad, perhaps even more so now, but more on that later.

There are many possibilities, in fact, but I believe both of those to be the most likely.

He started off the game worrying about the TINIEST chance that a civilian role would be compromised during the "Day 1 info" discussions, and now he's basically throwing out players names and the civilian roles he believes them to be! Yes, he gives potential other baddie options, but his entire ideology/strategy seems to be going back and forth and all over the place.

Nice to meet you Hero, you make sense to me. Certain things should not be discussed in the thread; saying "There are civvie reasons for survival" should be enough. I am sure the baddies read the roles, they don't need the civvies pointing things out for them, lol. This is the kind of thing you post in your baddie chatroom, trying to figure out who is who. You don't post it in the thread. But then, MP & I never see eye to eye (although i am old enough to be his Mom, he reminds me of my Dad, the Libertairian Accountant, and I tend to relate to him that way). I have to go back and read his wall'o'texts to have a serious opinion on him.

I just walked in the door, I have to do some stuff, then I will get back in here. But a quick "I have been thinking about this all afternoon at Target & Stop & Shop" post~

At this point, I have my strongest bad feelings about Hedgeowl & Mongoose; if I had to vote this second, it would be for Hedgeowl. In my readback, she dodged a bullet very nicely, and TBH, i don't particularly buy it.

As for the Llama voters, I feel pretty good about BWT, Devin & Snow (or at least not horrible, lol) I am on the fence about Matt, and Waffly, "OMG I DON"T KNOW WHAT I BELIEVE" MP always strikes me as bad. CBK, based on her posts alone, is a bit pingy. I do not know if Daisy cherry picks at all, but I know I would very likely put my fairly noobish sister in BTS with my boyfriend in a heartbeat. Who would take better care of her?

BUT...BUT...BUT...

I don't base decisions on stuff like that, its just a bit of info to process. But the whole "CBK hasn't even posted once", then there she is thing was a bit odd.

@Mata, I tend to distrust Bea quite often. I distrust her here. My opinion on her, IMO, is not all that valuable. Just like DH always thinks I am bad, I always think Bea is bad. So anything I have to say about her, keep that in mind.

But yeah, I have to finish my catch up, but then I plan to reread Hedgie.

I feel like I have to address your CBK concerns. Avant was her first game. She was my baddie teammate. We have no bts in this game, but as well you know me she is forever my puppy. (CBK - this is NOT a bad thing.) In her first game, her disabilities came out bts. And we all had very long talks about them. I was in favor of making her sight issues public because it does affect how people will read her. I'm happy to see that in this game CBK had followed my advice. IDK if she is civ or bad this game. But I know how hard it is for her to actually play the game. And the very fact that she keeps wanting to makes me all kinda proud of her.

Are you trying to make me feel guilty for being pinged by her? I understand how hard it can be to function within limitations, not from anything I personally have had to deal with, other than encroaching old moldiness, but from family members who are deaf, autistic or quadriplegic. And one thing I know from having family members with these issues is that they don't want people to cut them slack for it.

So really not sure why you are bringing this up. You said you wanted to address my concerns; my concern had nothing to do with her blindness. I only mentioned her in passing as she was one of the llama voters, and I was giving my opinions of them as I feel llama is likely civ.

Addendum to the above for Bea:
MP just doesn't seem like his normal self this game. His attack on me borders on desperate. He keeps making mistakes and saying things that aren't true. He accuses me of doing things that he himself is doing. (saying that I am suspicion mongering by bringing up several different names in a post where he calls out three or four people for possible baddieness.) He makes confused and illogical arguments (repeatedly bringing up the fact that I gave SVS the BOTD in Mario when I was not even being particularly accusing of him. He was accusing me!)

Normally his game is so much tighter than this, and it's making me nervous.

I kinda see your point. he is reminding me of his play in a game at HV, where he was a baddie, and he just was all over the map, posting walls'o'text that did not always have continuity, and being a little over the top, like yesterday, reading his posts, I heard William Shatner in my head, lol, "I want answers dammit!!!"

Linki~ Thanks, Llama~ that is kinda what I was seeing too.

In my opinion, she was the only teammate around when Elo went over the top, so she made a save vote. And got caught. She talked her way out of it, but this was her first mention of him:

Ok, I voted Vomps and tied it for now. Nobody is jumping out and me now.

Have to go email Strongbad!!!

I am gonna vote now, since I may or may not have time to before work in the AM. I am voting for Hedge.

[S~V~S]

Linki @ Hedge~ defending him does not affect whether or not you might be a baddie. Not sure why you even bring that up?

[thellama73]

Are you serious? Half your point on number two is that I didnt come to your rescue as part of the Animal Sanctuary Squad! Everyone is starting to think you are civ and now you pull a mini No U? At the Day 2 people were jumping on llama - devin votes like their life depended on if (pun intended). I have actively questioned Dom and now the ball is back in my court because he said he missed it.

And my voting record? You mean my two votes? The Day 1 vote is the only reason people suspect me in the first place. As for blendy, you could say that about half the peope in the game. Some have barely even posted they are so overwhelmed. There are so many posts to just read that making cases and researching can take a lot of time.

Why are you manufacturing this case on me?

I will try to get to a computer tonight and address svs and dom by pulling quotes.

Don't get upset. I was asked to formulate an informed opinion on you and I did so. Since I am a civ, and I think Devin is a civ, I am suspicious of people who refused to take a side in that battle, because it would be the logical course for baddies who don't want to be on record as voting for a civ. I am also suspicious of people who do not express strong opinions, because I think it is a good way to cover your tracks.

I agree that others fit these criteria, and I have not forgotten about them, but I was asked about you.

[thellama73]

I do admit most of what I posted makes no sense, but I still like the idea of being in the trogdor hut to give the other people a better chance of living, and will probably continue to do that.

Why? You don't know whether the people in the huts are good or bad? If you are good, you are endangering yourself while making it more likely for baddies to survive. Is that any way for a civvie to behave?

I think it is somewhat altruistic.

How is it altruistic to purposefully hurt your team?

[Dom]

Dom I think is probably a civ.

Can you explain this? I'm just wondering why. Seems kind of random.

I don'tknow why my [post caused such a reaction MP.I was mearly trying to give Bea infoshe askedfor refarding your suspicions of Llama.shedidn't ask aboutanyone else. And my effing space bar isplaying up againQQ!!!!!!!!!!

It's okay, Snow Dog, I'm just upset that people are misinterpreting my intentions and that I'm very likely going to die today.

Overdramatic much?

aren't you supposed to be dead?

WHAAA????

I posted right before the post of MPs that you quoted; what is your opinion on Hedgeowl? If you posted it today, I might have missed it, I did not get a chance to read back yet, I am going to do that now.

Let me reread her and get back to you on that.

Okay, done. These are the things that stand out to me.

1. She is incredibly blendy. She never brings up suspicions or makes cases against people. She defends almost everyone, but not wholeheartedly. The only exception to this was on Day 2 when she brought up a suspicion of Dom, but she didn't really pursue it, just voted for him in the middle of the vote battle between me and Devin.

2. Her voting record looks bad. On Day 1, she defended Elo, then voted Vompatti to tie. She claims this is because she thought a tie might result in no lynch, which is possible, but that is not the way it is usually handled. On Day 2, she said I sounded civvie, yet refused to help me out by voting for Devin, of whom she had expressed no such opinion of civvieness. Instead, she voted for a person who was getting virtually no attention from anywhere else, Dom.

I'm really glad I did this reread, because her play seems to come straight out of the classic baddie tactical manual: "Blending for Beginners: A Step by Step Guide" by Horatio Badlington.

I actually forgot she voted for me. Especially since she never gave me a rundown of what I obviously missed and I am not about to go looking for in the clusterfuck we're calling a game.

Are you serious? Half your point on number two is that I didnt come to your rescue as part of the Animal Sanctuary Squad! Everyone is starting to think you are civ and now you pull a mini No U? At the Day 2 people were jumping on llama - devin votes like their life depended on if (pun intended). I have actively questioned Dom and now the ball is back in my court because he said he missed it.

And my voting record? You mean my two votes? The Day 1 vote is the only reason people suspect me in the first place. As for blendy, you could say that about half the peope in the game. Some have barely even posted they are so overwhelmed. There are so many posts to just read that making cases and researching can take a lot of time.

Why are you manufacturing this case on me?

I will try to get to a computer tonight and address svs and dom by pulling quotes.

Yeah, I'm believing you less and less. Your initial defense seemed sincere, but why are you implying I'm avoiding you???

[A Person]

I do admit most of what I posted makes no sense, but I still like the idea of being in the trogdor hut to give the other people a better chance of living, and will probably continue to do that.

Why? You don't know whether the people in the huts are good or bad? If you are good, you are endangering yourself while making it more likely for baddies to survive. Is that any way for a civvie to behave?

I think it is somewhat altruistic.

How is it altruistic to purposefully hurt your team?

They get to keep playing the game instead of being killed by Trogdor.

[thellama73]

I do admit most of what I posted makes no sense, but I still like the idea of being in the trogdor hut to give the other people a better chance of living, and will probably continue to do that.

Why? You don't know whether the people in the huts are good or bad? If you are good, you are endangering yourself while making it more likely for baddies to survive. Is that any way for a civvie to behave?

I think it is somewhat altruistic.

How is it altruistic to purposefully hurt your team?

They get to keep playing the game instead of being killed by Trogdor.

Yeah, the baddies do! You are either a baddie or immune to logic.

[A Person]

Yeah, the baddies do! You are either a baddie or immune to logic.

I think the baddies suffer more from a loss than the civs do with their small, so if I were a baddie I would probably try harder to preserve myself. I could be immune to logic though.

[A Person]

small numbers*

[birdwithteeth11]

So I had a nice, detailed post for all this. But I accidentally closed the wrong window and deleted it all. Here's a shorter version.

Hmmmm I didn't seriously consider a person but I suppose I should. Can you summarize why he's bad for me?

I will defer to llama's post about it here:

I don't have a strong enough gut feeling on anyone to say "that person is definitely a baddie!" I do know that the theory put forth by AP about the huts (that we should all refuse to send in our votes) would make sense only from the perspective of a baddie with teammates. When I pointed this out to him, his defenses did not reassure me. Instead of saying "oh, you're right, I didn't think that through" he came up with further nonsensical responses.

It is possible that he just didn't think it through, but it's the only piece of hard evidence I have and I feel that is worth something.

I feel like AP's continued discussion of it tonight makes me either think he's bad or he doesn't understand how the logic doesn't work in his theory.

I posted right before the post of MPs that you quoted; what is your opinion on Hedgeowl? If you posted it today, I might have missed it, I did not get a chance to read back yet, I am going to do that now.

Let me reread her and get back to you on that.

Okay, done. These are the things that stand out to me.

1. She is incredibly blendy. She never brings up suspicions or makes cases against people. She defends almost everyone, but not wholeheartedly. The only exception to this was on Day 2 when she brought up a suspicion of Dom, but she didn't really pursue it, just voted for him in the middle of the vote battle between me and Devin.

2. Her voting record looks bad. On Day 1, she defended Elo, then voted Vompatti to tie. She claims this is because she thought a tie might result in no lynch, which is possible, but that is not the way it is usually handled. On Day 2, she said I sounded civvie, yet refused to help me out by voting for Devin, of whom she had expressed no such opinion of civvieness. Instead, she voted for a person who was getting virtually no attention from anywhere else, Dom.

I'm really glad I did this reread, because her play seems to come straight out of the classic baddie tactical manual: "Blending for Beginners: A Step by Step Guide" by Horatio Badlington.

Are you serious? Half your point on number two is that I didnt come to your rescue as part of the Animal Sanctuary Squad! Everyone is starting to think you are civ and now you pull a mini No U? At the Day 2 people were jumping on llama - devin votes like their life depended on if (pun intended). I have actively questioned Dom and now the ball is back in my court because he said he missed it.

And my voting record? You mean my two votes? The Day 1 vote is the only reason people suspect me in the first place. As for blendy, you could say that about half the peope in the game. Some have barely even posted they are so overwhelmed. There are so many posts to just read that making cases and researching can take a lot of time.

Why are you manufacturing this case on me?

I will try to get to a computer tonight and address svs and dom by pulling quotes.

Does anyone else feel like the bolded part didn't ring right to them? I was okay with this post up until that point.

Linki: That is definitely possible.

[A Person]

To be fair, I just said it wasn't logical. :P

[Hedgeowl]

Ok, I am now at a computer. I have a 4 month old, so sometimes it's hard to find time at a computer to pull quotes easily when people ask for it.

Dom - I was not implying you were avoiding me. (I already did that and you address it by asking me to remind you of my post) Llama was accusing me of dropping the ball on my suspicion of you. That's what I was trying to address. I was acknowledging that you had asked me to point out my initial concern. Frankly, at this point it feels a bit ridiculous, but I'll go dig up the quote anyway.

My impression is that this is part of Matt Fs style. Granted I have played only half a game with him at another site. I certainly appreciate the massive effort he put into this case. I will say that juliets style this game seems to consistent with other games. She checks in and asks questions of other players to reexplain the case or points. I have not figured out if this is because she is always confused or part of her style to observe if a slip is made in reponse to her questions.

That said the dialogue back and forth seems a little too careless if they were all on a baddie team together.

The point I find interesting is Dom bringing up that Llama had not mentioned him with rey and Mata as players who were quiet here, but not at another site. Dom then references the Six Feet Under game, which he Mata, rey, bwt, and I were or are still playing, but Llama hasnt been. So why on earth would Llama be talking about that game? The SFU game has been going on for weeks. Dom then uses this as a reason to find llama "slightly interesting." After llama clarifies which he game he meant Dom doesnt mention it again or say whoops! Of the 3 Matt F brings up I find Dom the most suspicious. I haven't decided, but I might vote there.

Linki- MP, I believe Llama was one of the first to think I was genuine in my defense, soo...leading a lynch how? As for suspecting him, I think I just have a blindpsot with Llama. I know him in rl, so I think he sounds like llama a lot. I have no idea whether he is bad or civ here.

This was the point I noted from Matt F's case that I found interesting. And what I was asking Dom to address.

Here are the SVS post mentioning me:

At this point, I have my strongest bad feelings about Hedgeowl & Mongoose; if I had to vote this second, it would be for Hedgeowl. In my readback, she dodged a bullet very nicely, and TBH, i don't particularly buy it.

I DO think Hedgeowl sounds bad. Why exactly did y'all just say "OK, Hedgie, we buy your defenses" on Day Two? It isn't very clear to me in the posts. Or again, is this just the more vocal people?

@bwt: I may be misunderstanding the meaning of "vanilla civ" then. Could you clear me up on that definition please??

Vanilla means no night powers.

I did not know this either. Thanks! Is there a Mafia game lingo cheat sheet?

I agree that we should no longer discuss info from polls to protect any other possible specific civs. We definitely dont know if this is only a civ poll, however currently I think it's safer to not discuss it. Of course it can be revisited later. I also don't want to vote BDH Day 1 as a newbie, but it people want to watch him I think thats reasonable.

5 pages of reading and I don't feel better about a suspect. I think Snow and Bullz have worked out what they meant and seem to in agreement, which makes sense. Bullz shouldnt have received additional prize info since his option didnt win, while Snowy should have and did.

I may find something further on that gets my eye, but this is the first post that seriously caught my attention (not counting Elo).

We don't want to discuss poll based info becasue of one theory (which I feel was kinda off the wall, tbh) that implies that only one affiliation got info, which no experienced host would EVER do? When this theory is proven true (and I am only up to page 7 or so, and I don't think that will ever happen) I would consider not discussing poll based info. But this post seriously strikes me as an attempt to control the discussion, channeling it where one wants it. Then if anyone discusses "poll based info" they can be called a baddie. It also adds to the push towards Bullz I saw developing based on his misunderstanding with Snow. There seemed to be a lot of intentionally misunderstanding of that entire convo.

*I just got up to Daisys clarification that many got info, not just civs*

Also~ *I Like Hyperbole Italics very much*

I am not sure what you want me to address now SVS. I searched Hedge, Hedgie, and Hedgeowl in your posts and besides the posts asking other what their opinion of me is, this is all I found. The first two quotes you find me likely bad and are surprised people let it go. Ok? I can't really defend against that. I did actually explain my vote before as best I could. I can quote those again if you would like.

As to the last quote. How was I trying to control the discussion about the poll? I was joining a discussion that was already well under way by MP, Bullz, Snow, and others. I was just adding my 2 cents based on the discussion in that very moment, but this discussion took up pages and morphed past this as well. Once Daisy clarified, did you see this post or the next one?

Anyone else receive info on the poll?

I highly doubt anyone will come forward. Especially not baddies at this point.

I figured it was worth a shot.

This is what you just wrote while I was typing:

Linki @ Hedge~ defending him does not affect whether or not you might be a baddie. Not sure why you even bring that up?

Defending who? Llama? I'm not sure which point you mean.

In my opinion, she was the only teammate around when Elo went over the top, so she made a save vote. And got caught. She talked her way out of it, but this was her first mention of him:

Hedgeowl wrote:Ok, I voted Vomps and tied it for now. Nobody is jumping out and me now.

Have to go email Strongbad!!!



I am gonna vote now, since I may or may not have time to before work in the AM. I am voting for Hedge.

By him do you mean Vomps? I explained that I was not that suspicious of the three top vote getters already. So why would I have mentioned Vomps before? You also asked earlier why there were no Day 2 votes on Vomps. There were only 3 of us, Gleam, MP, and me. I think gleam is still suspicious of him, MP might be now, but said it was just a vote with no meaning and for me I explained here:

3. My thoughts were, I dont suspect Elo, Vomps or Bullz, but I dont want to throw my vote away. So I thought what would happen in a tie vote? I don't know what daisy does in ties. In Epi's game no one dies, so maybe no one will die. I assume we now know that daisy randoms between ties.

And here again:

As for the suspicions around me. I understand my vote for Vomps is suspicious based on looking like a teammate protection and the timing. I almost always wait to last minute if I can. This has helped lynch a few baddies before I've found. I don't see anyway to defend against this. Think about it, all the civs considering a vote for me. If you were in my position how would you defend against a vote that looks suspicious, but is really as innocent as most Day 1 votes? I urge any of you thinking of voting for me to reconsider. It is a vote that all civs will greatly regret.

And here again:

I guess that is partly what I am struggling with right now. How does anyone explain a Day 1 vote without it sounding weak? The top vote getters were Bullz, Elo, and Vomps. I didn't have suspicions on anyone for Day 1 and everyone else had voted as the only voter for other roles knowing none of these people would be lynched and therefore they wouldn't feel responsible. Even MP claimed this with his vote for Vomps. Although he was the 2nd voter.

My decision was do I vote for someone and throwaway my vote because I know they wont die? Sure, I could have done that, but I decided to see what happened if I tied the vote. (I have since been informed by Bullz, that Epi only does this in polls and its not normal. But Epi has hosted 2 of the 7 games I have played or am playing so its my "normal") That's it really. I was hoping no one would die and we'd get more time, but of course I knew I would be a target the moment we all learned who Elohcin was. I understand why everyone thinks I could be her teammate and I have said this from the beginning.

If you lynch me I totally get it and no hard feelings, but certain roles might want to save a rezz for me later. (Doh! That's Dom's game. There appear to be no rezzs in this game) Well this proved not to be true!

YOU DO NOT WANT TO LYNCH ME!

I am not sure what else you would like me to address? You went ahead and voted for me, even though I said multiple times I was going to try and address your questions today. So...there it is. Did I miss anything else you brought up?

Does anyone else have something else they would like me to address?

[Mongoose]

Sure - how are you feeling about BDH? After a few days, I've no reason to suspect Dev, so I'd love someone else's stance on if they think BDH is a solvent pick for St. Baddie's Day.

[S~V~S]

All I have seen BDH say really was that he thought MP might be bad. And that is possible, although it is also possible that he is not.

What is YOUR opinion on it?

And Hedge, yeah, you got my posts. I am at peace with my vote, i feel you tried to save Elo. I feel you thread associated a bit with her, i think you are trying to avoid the spotlight, while still having a "presence".

And yes, by "Him" I meant Llama, you had just posted about his post about YOU (LOL) and said something to the effect of, "Oh great, you are suspecting me after I defended you and all".

i fail to see what one has to do with the other.

[Mongoose]

All I have seen BDH say really was that he thought MP might be bad. And that is possible, although it is also possible that he is not.

What is YOUR opinion on it?

Allow me to ping everyone's pingometer:

Here is my very suspicious rationale for my very suspicious vote on this very suspicious Tuesday morning.

I think something is there, in RE: BDH. I think Llama and MP have been spinning their wheels while we watched and while the baddies had a heyday. I get that BDH is a truffle dog of sorts in his relentless pursuit of MP, but I'm not sure it's not a tactic (see my post in response to MP earlier on why I find BDH's alignment questionable (and agreed with him on his own suspicions of the same).

I'm watching some of these quiet folks too.


Very suspiciously * votes BDH *

</ping>

[Mongoose]

Llama, if you could change your vote, would you?

Can one of the Vompers voters very succinctly articulate The Case of the Villainous Wombat for me? I regret to state that I do not currently understand it.

[timmer]

I know I've been pretty absent from this game (4 more aays abd I'm home!) but I've got to ask is df playing? and who is lixxy,

[Matahari]

I've been a bit suspicious of a few players because of a possible link to elohcin.

First it was mongoose because of the chatting in the thread, then Bea, for the exchange about voting elohcin for randomizing. Then she tried to make it seem bad that i never explained my vote until she asked for an explanation. But I felt a tiny bit better about her, after she explained that she had missed my original post. Then I started to doubt her again after hedgeowl said the same thing, that elohcin was being voted because she randomized.

I briefly suspected jc but after thinking about it, I started thinking that jc was just questioning things because that's what she does.

I'm going to vote hedgeowl today (sorry Hedge, I enjoy playing with you, but I kind of think you're dangerous this game).

After this , I'm going to try a reread of devin and Bullzeye. I have just an inkling of suspicion in the back of my mind, regarding one of the bad teams having a dead role check, someone rezzing someone, someone hinting at what role they might be; these thoughts are kind of turning over in my head, and might mean absolutely nothing. It all feels kind of funny though. I'll do some investigating.

[Dom]

Ok, I am now at a computer. I have a 4 month old, so sometimes it's hard to find time at a computer to pull quotes easily when people ask for it.

Dom - I was not implying you were avoiding me. (I already did that and you address it by asking me to remind you of my post) Llama was accusing me of dropping the ball on my suspicion of you. That's what I was trying to address. I was acknowledging that you had asked me to point out my initial concern. Frankly, at this point it feels a bit ridiculous, but I'll go dig up the quote anyway.

i think we are at a misunderstanding. I thought you had made another post with questions and I totally missed it. I think that conversation has been settled at this point. I completely misunderstood. I'm sorry! I'm just a little jumbled this game... it's been moving really fast. :/ Everyday when I get home from work, when I'm working, I have 3+ pages of this game to read. I only just died in my other game and still am hosting. :/

Here is my very suspicious rationale for my very suspicious vote on this very suspicious Tuesday morning.

Anyone remember Tranq's suspicious suspicions from Dexter Mafia on LP?

[A Person]

Since I'll probably not remember to do it before the poll ends tomorrow, I voted for myself.

[Matt]

Since I'll probably not remember to do it before the poll ends tomorrow, I voted for myself.

Third time's the charm? Why do you want to be lynched, A Person? I feel like, whatever your role is, you will get more powerful if you get lynched and you vote for yourself.

I dun git it.

[Hedgeowl]

I've been a bit suspicious of a few players because of a possible link to elohcin.

First it was mongoose because of the chatting in the thread, then Bea, for the exchange about voting elohcin for randomizing. Then she tried to make it seem bad that i never explained my vote until she asked for an explanation. But I felt a tiny bit better about her, after she explained that she had missed my original post. Then I started to doubt her again after hedgeowl said the same thing, that elohcin was being voted because she randomized.

I briefly suspected jc but after thinking about it, I started thinking that jc was just questioning things because that's what she does.

I'm going to vote hedgeowl today (sorry Hedge, I enjoy playing with you, but I kind of think you're dangerous this game).

After this , I'm going to try a reread of devin and Bullzeye. I have just an inkling of suspicion in the back of my mind, regarding one of the bad teams having a dead role check, someone rezzing someone, someone hinting at what role they might be; these thoughts are kind of turning over in my head, and might mean absolutely nothing. It all feels kind of funny though. I'll do some investigating.

This is what I missed. i didnt say Elo was being voted for randomizing. I asked if she was, along with bea and jc as you point out. Its great luck that 3 people voted Elo, but seriously it was luck. Snow immediately regretted voting for her before he knew who she was. The case on her I know someone explained was not actually about randomizing, but I dont remember what it even was. This is exactly like the B for baddies theory where everyone looked for a BWT teammate defense vote when there was none, except here I am the only B candidate. Honestly, do you really think I am that careless a player if I were bad? I knew the moment she was announced as Whats her face I would be a suspect, but theres nothing I could have done differently.

Linki - dom, yeah looks like we are back on the same page.

[A Person]

Since I'll probably not remember to do it before the poll ends tomorrow, I voted for myself.

Third time's the charm? Why do you want to be lynched, A Person? I feel like, whatever your role is, you will get more powerful if you get lynched and you vote for yourself.

I dun git it.

I still don't feel strong enough vote for anyone with any amount of confidence.

[thellama73]

Llama, if you could change your vote, would you?

Hmmm... probably. I do not want MP t think he's off the hook simply because he realized his error. Any baddie, seeing the hopelessness of the situation MP had gotten himself into would have backed down as well.

Still, I think at this stage in the game I find Hedgeowl a more likely baddie than MP.

[agleaminranks]

Dropping in quickly to say that my suspicions of Llama and Devin have not been diminished in light of their rebuttals, if you can call them that. I'll be moving over the course of the next few days and probably won't have any internet connection save that of a mobile device so my mafia time will be limited, and thus I'll be placing my vote for Llama right now.

[bea]

My main suspicion still lies with Moving Pictures and the following post he made makes it even worse for him in my eyes:

When he could have seriously considered he would be the one to die. Now, ask yourself, if Devin were Crackotage, and you were in his shoes, would you use your lynch stop, especially if you had two? Damn sure I know I would.

It's even possible that Devin is Homsar and knew he will never be lynched. It would actually make a lot of sense given that he is playing a wacky game and posting a ton. Think about it: he is not exactly trying to draw attention to himself, but he seems to think it is harmless.

On the flipside, it is also possible Devin is Cheerleader. But for Devin to be Homsar and Cheerleader, there had to be at least some level of vote manipulation taking place here. The only way that could happen would be the civvie role that has two votes cast his or her second vote for Devin OR one of the secrets. Therefore, those possibilities are less likely.

I think the most plausible explanations for what happened on Day 2 are either of the following:
- Devin decided to stop the lynch, fearing he would die, even though by the end of the period he did not have the most votes.
- llama is Homesar or the Cheerleader. However, his behavior does not seem to match either of these, so if I had to guess, definitely I would say the Cheerleader. Also, I still believe him to be bad, perhaps even more so now, but more on that later.

There are many possibilities, in fact, but I believe both of those to be the most likely.

He started off the game worrying about the TINIEST chance that a civilian role would be compromised during the "Day 1 info" discussions, and now he's basically throwing out players names and the civilian roles he believes them to be! Yes, he gives potential other baddie options, but his entire ideology/strategy seems to be going back and forth and all over the place.

Nice to meet you Hero, you make sense to me. Certain things should not be discussed in the thread; saying "There are civvie reasons for survival" should be enough. I am sure the baddies read the roles, they don't need the civvies pointing things out for them, lol. This is the kind of thing you post in your baddie chatroom, trying to figure out who is who. You don't post it in the thread. But then, MP & I never see eye to eye (although i am old enough to be his Mom, he reminds me of my Dad, the Libertairian Accountant, and I tend to relate to him that way). I have to go back and read his wall'o'texts to have a serious opinion on him.

I just walked in the door, I have to do some stuff, then I will get back in here. But a quick "I have been thinking about this all afternoon at Target & Stop & Shop" post~

At this point, I have my strongest bad feelings about Hedgeowl & Mongoose; if I had to vote this second, it would be for Hedgeowl. In my readback, she dodged a bullet very nicely, and TBH, i don't particularly buy it.

As for the Llama voters, I feel pretty good about BWT, Devin & Snow (or at least not horrible, lol) I am on the fence about Matt, and Waffly, "OMG I DON"T KNOW WHAT I BELIEVE" MP always strikes me as bad. CBK, based on her posts alone, is a bit pingy. I do not know if Daisy cherry picks at all, but I know I would very likely put my fairly noobish sister in BTS with my boyfriend in a heartbeat. Who would take better care of her?

BUT...BUT...BUT...

I don't base decisions on stuff like that, its just a bit of info to process. But the whole "CBK hasn't even posted once", then there she is thing was a bit odd.

@Mata, I tend to distrust Bea quite often. I distrust her here. My opinion on her, IMO, is not all that valuable. Just like DH always thinks I am bad, I always think Bea is bad. So anything I have to say about her, keep that in mind.

But yeah, I have to finish my catch up, but then I plan to reread Hedgie.

I feel like I have to address your CBK concerns. Avant was her first game. She was my baddie teammate. We have no bts in this game, but as well you know me she is forever my puppy. (CBK - this is NOT a bad thing.) In her first game, her disabilities came out bts. And we all had very long talks about them. I was in favor of making her sight issues public because it does affect how people will read her. I'm happy to see that in this game CBK had followed my advice. IDK if she is civ or bad this game. But I know how hard it is for her to actually play the game. And the very fact that she keeps wanting to makes me all kinda proud of her.

Are you trying to make me feel guilty for being pinged by her? I understand how hard it can be to function within limitations, not from anything I personally have had to deal with, other than encroaching old moldiness, but from family members who are deaf, autistic or quadriplegic. And one thing I know from having family members with these issues is that they don't want people to cut them slack for it.

So really not sure why you are bringing this up. You said you wanted to address my concerns; my concern had nothing to do with her blindness. I only mentioned her in passing as she was one of the llama voters, and I was giving my opinions of them as I feel llama is likely civ.

Addendum to the above for Bea:
MP just doesn't seem like his normal self this game. His attack on me borders on desperate. He keeps making mistakes and saying things that aren't true. He accuses me of doing things that he himself is doing. (saying that I am suspicion mongering by bringing up several different names in a post where he calls out three or four people for possible baddieness.) He makes confused and illogical arguments (repeatedly bringing up the fact that I gave SVS the BOTD in Mario when I was not even being particularly accusing of him. He was accusing me!)

Normally his game is so much tighter than this, and it's making me nervous.

I kinda see your point. he is reminding me of his play in a game at HV, where he was a baddie, and he just was all over the map, posting walls'o'text that did not always have continuity, and being a little over the top, like yesterday, reading his posts, I heard William Shatner in my head, lol, "I want answers dammit!!!"

Linki~ Thanks, Llama~ that is kinda what I was seeing too.

In my opinion, she was the only teammate around when Elo went over the top, so she made a save vote. And got caught. She talked her way out of it, but this was her first mention of him:

Ok, I voted Vomps and tied it for now. Nobody is jumping out and me now.

Have to go email Strongbad!!!

I am gonna vote now, since I may or may not have time to before work in the AM. I am voting for Hedge.

I was not at all trying to make you feel bad. I didn't know if you were aware of it and I know it tends to affect the way I read her posts - much like knowing about DP's ADD - or knowing when I've been drinking. Sometimes knowing the outside circumstances help to inform how I interpret posts.

I'm sorry if you felt that I was trying to make you feel guilty. It was not my intention in the slightest.

[bea]

I will have to vote tonight before bed as there is no way I'm getting up at 9 am on my day off. I'm not sure where my vote is going, the strongest case appears to be against hedgie but I'm going to eat dinner with my sweetie and mull it over before bed.

[BigDamnHero]

And I could still vote for BDH... I do still feel he was twisting my words, and he does fail to actually do anything other than suspect me And then vanish. I guess what started holding me back was because I felt so sure of llama for a while but now believe I was wrong, and I connected BDH and llama together... Then when mongoose posted it made me rethink BDH even more... And add in the fact that BDH I new.

However, maybes will vote BDH. I see he was in the thread earlier but he never addressed my question as to why if he didn't know what BTSC was, why didn't he ask? He has actually stopped posting ltogether... Interesting indeed.

Unfortunately, my job precludes me from posting much during the week, though I can sneek a peek every now and then on my iphone, but as I said earlier, posting from it is a real pain in my ass so I've opted just to use it to follow the ever changing and growing discussion pool rather than have to come home and read the unending streams of thought as many others have said is even getting harder and harder for even the experienced players to keep up with. So yes, I may check in from time to time without saying anything in the thread.

As for the question you asked me earlier, I took it more as a general bit of rhetoric rather than direct questioning, but to give to a response, I never asked because the role description I was given by Daisy didn't say anything about BSTC or whatever so I figured it didn't pertain to me thus making it not a priority that needed my concern or attention. Outside of roles with secret aspects to them, I don't see any roles that say anything about BSTC which makes makes me think it's even less of a concern.

As for my relentless pursuit of you, I don't think I can state my case any more than I already have. Most of the post I read concerning others say things such as "In this game, so-and-so did this and in that other game they did that and it's not normal and I know this person so I can hoestly say yadda yadda yadda." I have no other games to hark back to nor do I have any idea what can/can't be considered normal...and the only person I remotely know is our host so I have to make do with what I have which is the strongest and utmost belief that MP is not working in the best interest of fellow civilians such as myself.

People are either going to believe me or they won't. I can't prevent anyone from throwing a vote or two my way, but it would be the wrong use of a vote since it may cost a valuable civilian their spot in this game. That's all I can really say.

[bea]

Ok - I'm whipped. I think llama and teefies make good points about hedgie so that's where my vote's going.

vote hedgeowl

[Snow Dog]

When I am abed I have thoughts. I remember the Thomas game where Bullz and nev, two baddie teammates buddied up to me and played me completely. And then I think of the MP, Dev, llama interplays anditreminds me of the same thing. I wonder if we are all being played here by an extremely vocal baddie team. First all "you're bad...no you" and then the "Oh I beleive you are civ after all and so is he" and he says " and the third says "He is civ too"

All suddenly vouching for each other.

[Captain Bunny Killer]

Well, friends, I'm sorry I can't be more faithful/helpful with analysis here. Pretty much the last time I was able to get on was when the whole everyone-now-switched-everything-they-used-to-think thing happened. I don't get it, so I'm just going to have to vote llama. It's still pretty early, so I am not expecting it will decide anything and it doesn't seem fair to just vote randomly. I thought in the first day that things would be a little more lucid by now, but it seems we're back to Day 1, at least as far as a completely spread vote is concerned. Anyway, I will be on the road for 8ish hrs today starting in an hour or so, so if you comment in my direction, I'm afraid I will miss it.

[Tangrowth]

Only here for a minute literally before walking out the door to work... Snow dog, if you really believe that to be true, vote for me or llama. Go for it. But believe me that you would be making a mistake with me and that I am pretty sure you would be with llama.

If it helps, I was pretty sure of my gut on llama. But Matt f made me reconsider and I considered a different angle... And I am glad he did because my case really was a bunch of crap anyway.

BDH I appreciate your response so thank you. I have played god knows how many maia games and i am pretty familiar with nearly everyone here in sme way, some more than others. i know the bringing in other games and such seems like irrelevant to you, and understand, i was in your shoes nce, and so was everyone else. i try not to use that only as a way to convict someone, it is not fair, someones behavior shold be condemned by their atons this game. but sometimes uou can develop a gauge on other players after playing for them for so long. maybe it is wrong to use it in consideration, atually, i think it is. but it is hard not to let it nfluence your thoughts sometimes. i don't know wht else to say to try and convince you, but if you Are a civvie,please take into consideration my situation, my actions, and that it should be apparent I have no one helping me this game and that I am just trying to help.

I think hedgeowl looks bad, I will likely vote for her if I do not have to out of self defense because she seems a likely Elo teammate. Pay close attention to how she asked about llama manufacturing a case and how she says how lucky we were to get Elo. Seems very much like a frustrated Baddie.

People need to stop voting for llama! I am pretty sure that if I am right I know exactly which role he will come up as! Stop voting him!

[Snow Dog]

I will not vote llama or you or Devin Alex. Not yet anyway. Still not convinced on Hedgeowl though.

[Vompatti]

Could someone summarize the case on Hedgeowl?

[Bullzeye]

There are certain people that have their own unusual ways, and when people who know their style vote them for being them, it always raises flags for me.

Well FWIW my DP suspicion has nothing to do with him being quiet and everything to do with the crazy theory that he might be Trogdor.

Dom I think is probably a civ.

Can you explain this? I'm just wondering why. Seems kind of random.

I don't know where the probably came from but I do think you're a civ based on your day 0 vote and general vibeyness. I tend to mention who I'm not suspicious of just to see if anyone will come and tell me why I'm wrong. Would you prefer I didn't?

After this , I'm going to try a reread of devin and Bullzeye. I have just an inkling of suspicion in the back of my mind, regarding one of the bad teams having a dead role check, someone rezzing someone, someone hinting at what role they might be; these thoughts are kind of turning over in my head, and might mean absolutely nothing. It all feels kind of funny though. I'll do some investigating.

I'd be interested to hear the full version of this because I have no idea what you could even be talking about.

Since I'll probably not remember to do it before the poll ends tomorrow, I voted for myself.

Third time's the charm? Why do you want to be lynched, A Person? I feel like, whatever your role is, you will get more powerful if you get lynched and you vote for yourself.

I dun git it.

Are you saying that if we strike him down he'll become more powerful than we could possibly imagine?

This is what I missed. i didnt say Elo was being voted for randomizing. I asked if she was, along with bea and jc as you point out. Its great luck that 3 people voted Elo, but seriously it was luck. Snow immediately regretted voting for her before he knew who she was. The case on her I know someone explained was not actually about randomizing, but I dont remember what it even was. This is exactly like the B for baddies theory where everyone looked for a BWT teammate defense vote when there was none, except here I am the only B candidate. Honestly, do you really think I am that careless a player if I were bad? I knew the moment she was announced as Whats her face I would be a suspect, but theres nothing I could have done differently..

See I'm torn here because I didn't really understand where the Elo votes were coming from and I know I'm not her teammate but at the same time I do think you were trying to save her. On the other hand, your point about Snow makes me wonder. Like maybe he voted for a teammate, realised he might have got her killed, and then come out saying oh no I regret that vote someone please save her. I also don't think you're careless (nor Snow) as a baddie, but people do make mistakes all the time no matter how careful they are.

I think hedgeowl looks bad, I will likely vote for her if I do not have to out of self defense because she seems a likely Elo teammate. Pay close attention to how she asked about llama manufacturing a case and how she says how lucky we were to get Elo. Seems very much like a frustrated Baddie.

I definitely might vote Hedge today now. I've also dropped my thoughts about Llama since they were mostly based on yours MP. I might also look into Snow based on the above.

[Hedgeowl]

Vomps - the case on me is that I voted for you and tied the vote with Elo. Who then flipped bad, so I am her baddie teammate trying to save her.

I made my arguments, but again like I said theres nothing I can really say to defend the vote. Plus if SVS suspects me, she must be right, why even need to build a case or you know use anything but one vote?

I really do suggest you not vote me. i do not want to role hint or out myself, because this wil put me in danger of an NK, but looks like it might not matter.

[Vompatti]

^ That doesn't seem much of a case.

[Hedgeowl]

This is what I missed. i didnt say Elo was being voted for randomizing. I asked if she was, along with bea and jc as you point out. Its great luck that 3 people voted Elo, but seriously it was luck. Snow immediately regretted voting for her before he knew who she was. The case on her I know someone explained was not actually about randomizing, but I dont remember what it even was. This is exactly like the B for baddies theory where everyone looked for a BWT teammate defense vote when there was none, except here I am the only B candidate. Honestly, do you really think I am that careless a player if I were bad? I knew the moment she was announced as Whats her face I would be a suspect, but theres nothing I could have done differently..

See I'm torn here because I didn't really understand where the Elo votes were coming from and I know I'm not her teammate but at the same time I do think you were trying to save her. On the other hand, your point about Snow makes me wonder. Like maybe he voted for a teammate, realised he might have got her killed, and then come out saying oh no I regret that vote someone please save her. I also don't think you're careless (nor Snow) as a baddie, but people do make mistakes all the time no matter how careful they are.

I think hedgeowl looks bad, I will likely vote for her if I do not have to out of self defense because she seems a likely Elo teammate. Pay close attention to how she asked about llama manufacturing a case and how she says how lucky we were to get Elo. Seems very much like a frustrated Baddie.

I definitely might vote Hedge today now. I've also dropped my thoughts about Llama since they were mostly based on yours MP. I might also look into Snow based on the above.

Just saw this. Do you forget why Snow voted Elohcin? It was because he was taking a gamble trusting you because you both admitted info from the poll. Then he regretted it because he wasnt sure it was a good idea to have voted to protect you. Just wanted to clear that up, because I was not trying to cast suspicion on him.

[Bullzeye]

Just saw this. Do you forget why Snow voted Elohcin? It was because he was taking a gamble trusting you because you both admitted info from the poll. Then he regretted it because he wasnt sure it was a good idea to have voted to protect you. Just wanted to clear that up, because I was not trying to cast suspicion on him.

Okay I had actually forgotten that. Hmmm... I probably wouldn't have voted Snow today anyway because it'd just spread the vote further.

[Snow Dog]

This is what I missed. i didnt say Elo was being voted for randomizing. I asked if she was, along with bea and jc as you point out. Its great luck that 3 people voted Elo, but seriously it was luck. Snow immediately regretted voting for her before he knew who she was. The case on her I know someone explained was not actually about randomizing, but I dont remember what it even was. This is exactly like the B for baddies theory where everyone looked for a BWT teammate defense vote when there was none, except here I am the only B candidate. Honestly, do you really think I am that careless a player if I were bad? I knew the moment she was announced as Whats her face I would be a suspect, but theres nothing I could have done differently..

See I'm torn here because I didn't really understand where the Elo votes were coming from and I know I'm not her teammate but at the same time I do think you were trying to save her. On the other hand, your point about Snow makes me wonder. Like maybe he voted for a teammate, realised he might have got her killed, and then come out saying oh no I regret that vote someone please save her. I also don't think you're careless (nor Snow) as a baddie, but people do make mistakes all the time no matter how careful they are.

I think hedgeowl looks bad, I will likely vote for her if I do not have to out of self defense because she seems a likely Elo teammate. Pay close attention to how she asked about llama manufacturing a case and how she says how lucky we were to get Elo. Seems very much like a frustrated Baddie.

I definitely might vote Hedge today now. I've also dropped my thoughts about Llama since they were mostly based on yours MP. I might also look into Snow based on the above.

Just saw this. Do you forget why Snow voted Elohcin? It was because he was taking a gamble trusting you because you both admitted info from the poll. Then he regretted it because he wasnt sure it was a good idea to have voted to protect you. Just wanted to clear that up, because I was not trying to cast suspicion on him.

Thanks hedge.
Yes that is right, I had forgotten the reason for my Elo vote. Even so it doesn't make me civ. I am, but this is not proof. I was wondering, do baddie teams get rez powers in mafia games sometimes? I am not voting you Hedge. I am fairly certain you are civ even though some great and insightful players have voted for you.

Linki with Bulz. Both are memories are poor then.

[Bullzeye]

This is what I missed. i didnt say Elo was being voted for randomizing. I asked if she was, along with bea and jc as you point out. Its great luck that 3 people voted Elo, but seriously it was luck. Snow immediately regretted voting for her before he knew who she was. The case on her I know someone explained was not actually about randomizing, but I dont remember what it even was. This is exactly like the B for baddies theory where everyone looked for a BWT teammate defense vote when there was none, except here I am the only B candidate. Honestly, do you really think I am that careless a player if I were bad? I knew the moment she was announced as Whats her face I would be a suspect, but theres nothing I could have done differently..

See I'm torn here because I didn't really understand where the Elo votes were coming from and I know I'm not her teammate but at the same time I do think you were trying to save her. On the other hand, your point about Snow makes me wonder. Like maybe he voted for a teammate, realised he might have got her killed, and then come out saying oh no I regret that vote someone please save her. I also don't think you're careless (nor Snow) as a baddie, but people do make mistakes all the time no matter how careful they are.

I think hedgeowl looks bad, I will likely vote for her if I do not have to out of self defense because she seems a likely Elo teammate. Pay close attention to how she asked about llama manufacturing a case and how she says how lucky we were to get Elo. Seems very much like a frustrated Baddie.

I definitely might vote Hedge today now. I've also dropped my thoughts about Llama since they were mostly based on yours MP. I might also look into Snow based on the above.

Just saw this. Do you forget why Snow voted Elohcin? It was because he was taking a gamble trusting you because you both admitted info from the poll. Then he regretted it because he wasnt sure it was a good idea to have voted to protect you. Just wanted to clear that up, because I was not trying to cast suspicion on him.

Thanks hedge.
Yes that is right, I had forgotten the reason for my Elo vote. Even so it doesn't make me civ. I am, but this is not proof. I was wondering, do baddie teams get rez powers in mafia games sometimes? I am not voting you Hedge. I am fairly certain you are civ even though some great and insightful players have voted for you.

Linki with Bulz. Both are memories are poor then.

Baddies do get rezzes sometimes. Unless Devin is bad though (and I don't think he is) no baddies were involved in my return.

[juliets]

This morning I'm considering 2 different people unless someone else comes up with something that turns my head on a thrid person. First there is A Person:

I do admit most of what I posted makes no sense, but I still like the idea of being in the trogdor hut to give the other people a better chance of living, and will probably continue to do that.

Why? You don't know whether the people in the huts are good or bad? If you are good, you are endangering yourself while making it more likely for baddies to survive. Is that any way for a civvie to behave?

I think it is somewhat altruistic.

How is it altruistic to purposefully hurt your team?

They get to keep playing the game instead of being killed by Trogdor.

I just don't understand this logic at all. To llama's point, if you are civv you are endangering yourself and making it more likely baddies survive. And how is that civv behavior. A Person answers that it's altruistic which just does not sit right with me. The idea of the game is not to find ways to give your life for others to survive unless you are backed into a corner and have to make a decision to sacrifice yourself for others. The idea is not to put yourself in that position purposely.

Then there is this:

Since I'll probably not remember to do it before the poll ends tomorrow, I voted for myself.

Third time's the charm? Why do you want to be lynched, A Person? I feel like, whatever your role is, you will get more powerful if you get lynched and you vote for yourself.

I dun git it.

Maybe Matt is right and you are trying to get lynched, but people who vote themselves make me very nervous about their allegiance. To me it's a way of saying "see, I'm not bad and I'll prove it by putting a vote on myself because other votes won't be voting me". (I don't think I expressed this thought quite right but its the best I can do). I just don't feel like A person is of a civv mindset in this game though I recognize it could just be a logic problem and a lack of understanding of why voting for yourself - presumably a civv is the wrong thing to do.

My other ping this morning is someone I've examined twice and not found fault with and that is Hedgeowl. Two things I noticed this morning that I had not thought of before: (note: I had of course noticed the vote on Day 1 but thought her explanation was sincere)

2. Her voting record looks bad. On Day 1, she defended Elo, then voted Vompatti to tie. She claims this is because she thought a tie might result in no lynch, which is possible, but that is not the way it is usually handled. On Day 2, she said I sounded civvie, yet refused to help me out by voting for Devin, of whom she had expressed no such opinion of civvieness. Instead, she voted for a person who was getting virtually no attention from anywhere else, Dom.

I had not thought about this point regarding voting for Devin. If she thought llama was civv and had no opinion of Devin it does seem odd she wouldn't vote Devin to save llama.

I agree that we should no longer discuss info from polls to protect any other possible specific civs. We definitely dont know if this is only a civ poll, however currently I think it's safer to not discuss it. Of course it can be revisited later.

We don't want to discuss poll based info becasue of one theory (which I feel was kinda off the wall, tbh) that implies that only one affiliation got info, which no experienced host would EVER do? When this theory is proven true (and I am only up to page 7 or so, and I don't think that will ever happen) I would consider not discussing poll based info. But this post seriously strikes me as an attempt to control the discussion, channeling it where one wants it. Then if anyone discusses "poll based info" they can be called a baddie.

When I read Hedge's remarks in my read throughs I disagreed (as I think I mentioned earlier in the game) that only civvs had gotten info in the poll. It really seemed like more than even a stretch hypothesis. What I didn't consider though is that she was trying to control the discussion. Once I saw S~V~S's post this morning this thought really clicked. These two things that were raised this morning have me questioning whether Hedgie's explanation of her vote was quite as sincere as I thought it was.

I have not made a decision yet. My belief in Hedgie's sincerity was pretty strong and as for A Person maybe it's just a matter of posting strage things. Maybe something else will be pointed out this morning that draws me away from these two but otherwise my vote will be between these two.

[Snow Dog]

This is what I missed. i didnt say Elo was being voted for randomizing. I asked if she was, along with bea and jc as you point out. Its great luck that 3 people voted Elo, but seriously it was luck. Snow immediately regretted voting for her before he knew who she was. The case on her I know someone explained was not actually about randomizing, but I dont remember what it even was. This is exactly like the B for baddies theory where everyone looked for a BWT teammate defense vote when there was none, except here I am the only B candidate. Honestly, do you really think I am that careless a player if I were bad? I knew the moment she was announced as Whats her face I would be a suspect, but theres nothing I could have done differently..

See I'm torn here because I didn't really understand where the Elo votes were coming from and I know I'm not her teammate but at the same time I do think you were trying to save her. On the other hand, your point about Snow makes me wonder. Like maybe he voted for a teammate, realised he might have got her killed, and then come out saying oh no I regret that vote someone please save her. I also don't think you're careless (nor Snow) as a baddie, but people do make mistakes all the time no matter how careful they are.

I think hedgeowl looks bad, I will likely vote for her if I do not have to out of self defense because she seems a likely Elo teammate. Pay close attention to how she asked about llama manufacturing a case and how she says how lucky we were to get Elo. Seems very much like a frustrated Baddie.

I definitely might vote Hedge today now. I've also dropped my thoughts about Llama since they were mostly based on yours MP. I might also look into Snow based on the above.

Just saw this. Do you forget why Snow voted Elohcin? It was because he was taking a gamble trusting you because you both admitted info from the poll. Then he regretted it because he wasnt sure it was a good idea to have voted to protect you. Just wanted to clear that up, because I was not trying to cast suspicion on him.

Thanks hedge.
Yes that is right, I had forgotten the reason for my Elo vote. Even so it doesn't make me civ. I am, but this is not proof. I was wondering, do baddie teams get rez powers in mafia games sometimes? I am not voting you Hedge. I am fairly certain you are civ even though some great and insightful players have voted for you.

Linki with Bulz. Both are memories are poor then.

Baddies do get rezzes sometimes. Unless Devin is bad though (and I don't think he is) no baddies were involved in my return.

I trust you for noe Bullz for the very same reasons I tried to save you earlier.

[Snow Dog]

@Juliets. I think Hedge didn't want to vote Devin because she didn't want to tie the vote again and be blamed for saving Llama or whatever. she was still smarting from her Elo save.

[juliets]

@Juliets. I think Hedge didn't want to vote Devin because she didn't want to tie the vote again and be blamed for saving Llama or whatever. she was still smarting from her Elo save.

Ok Snow Dog thank you for that feedback! You may have mentioned this and I forgot but who are you thinking about voting for today?

[Snow Dog]

@Juliets. I think Hedge didn't want to vote Devin because she didn't want to tie the vote again and be blamed for saving Llama or whatever. she was still smarting from her Elo save.

Ok Snow Dog thank you for that feedback! You may have mentioned this and I forgot but who are you thinking about voting for today?

Like you i am struck by A Person's responses. I have a feeling that's just him being him though. In Thomas he didn't want to vote for anyone either. He is not the most helpful civ and I do not know his baddie game.
For some reason Vomps pings me. Nothing solid. Call it gut if you like. Also my MP/Llama/Devin all being on the same team theory while a bit out there, still has me thinking. Call it paranoia.

[thellama73]

@Juliets. I think Hedge didn't want to vote Devin because she didn't want to tie the vote again and be blamed for saving Llama or whatever. she was still smarting from her Elo save.

It's certainly a possibility. The other possibility is that she knew we were both civs and didn't want her fingerprints on the vote.

[Snow Dog]

@Juliets. I think Hedge didn't want to vote Devin because she didn't want to tie the vote again and be blamed for saving Llama or whatever. she was still smarting from her Elo save.

It's certainly a possibility. The other possibility is that she knew we were both civs and didn't want her fingerprints on the vote.

How would she know you were both civ? Even if she were bad she wouldn't know that.

[Mongoose]

Thanks hedge.
Yes that is right, I had forgotten the reason for my Elo vote. Even so it doesn't make me civ. I am, but this is not proof. I was wondering, do baddie teams get rez powers in mafia games sometimes? I am not voting you Hedge. I am fairly certain you are civ even though some great and insightful players have voted for you.

Linki with Bulz. Both are memories are poor then.

I'm really worried that Hedgie is going to flip civ, so I will petition any remaining voters to not throw votes her way. I know it's astute players making a case on her, but I just don't think they are right this time.

Snowy, RE: your contemplation on whether MP/Llama/Devin are teammates -- I've thought A LOT about that too. A lot. I think they just got their horns locked in battle and didn't know when to concede. I', not sure exactly what catalyzed the cease fire though other than possibly MP having a good idea of who Llama is. But honestly, if they are playing us from one baddie team, some of the things they have done would be legit insane. Certifiably. Like Baker Act worthy. So while I'm not completely putting the idea out of my head, it's not something I'm leaning towards at this time because of those reasons.

[Snow Dog]

Thanks hedge.
Yes that is right, I had forgotten the reason for my Elo vote. Even so it doesn't make me civ. I am, but this is not proof. I was wondering, do baddie teams get rez powers in mafia games sometimes? I am not voting you Hedge. I am fairly certain you are civ even though some great and insightful players have voted for you.

Linki with Bulz. Both are memories are poor then.

I'm really worried that Hedgie is going to flip civ, so I will petition any remaining voters to not throw votes her way. I know it's astute players making a case on her, but I just don't think they are right this time.

Snowy, RE: your contemplation on whether MP/Llama/Devin are teammates -- I've thought A LOT about that too. A lot. I think they just got their horns locked in battle and didn't know when to concede. I', not sure exactly what catalyzed the cease fire though other than possibly MP having a good idea of who Llama is. But honestly, if they are playing us from one baddie team, some of the things they have done would be legit insane. Certifiably. Like Baker Act worthy. So while I'm not completely putting the idea out of my head, it's not something I'm leaning towards at this time because of those reasons.

I know it's crazy isn't it. It is something MP might do though.