Phenon Mafia: ENDGAME - Snuffed

[Long Con]

Dys has not power claimed, right?

Change vote: Dyslexicon

Tell me more about this expectation.

Though I shouldn't make a habit of speaking for others (it always makes me look bad, even if we're both town and even if I'm disagreeing), I'll field this.

It is very common for HCRealms lynches to revolve around believability of a claim.

Playing in an X-Men game and claiming Wolverine? You're gonna get a little slack. Claiming cop but you only have results on dead players (night kills generally flip on our board) or already trusted town? You're gonna get the side eye. It's generally bad form to lynch without allowing for a claim of some sort ("Wth? I'm Wolverine/the cop, you guys! Why didn't you wait before you lynched me?") and it's considered scummy to endure pressure without claiming ("Clearly, he's googling X-Men and trying to find a believable claim. Or else he's just avoiding claiming cause he knows there's a good chance he's be called out for lying").

I don't think claiming is going to be nearly as powerful/standard in this setup as Silver is used to.

This is pretty weird to me. Of course I can't speak for what Dys is used to, but at least here this is not particularly common practice. Sometimes role claims happen in desperate situations, but often they're not even allowed/encouraged, so they're certainly not expected as a normal defense. And even if they were, I don't get why Silver expected as much from Dys now, since (a) there are only a few votes on them, so even if it was normal practice to claim when in danger of being lynched, it wouldn't make sense yet because they're not even really close to the danger zone, and (b) claiming makes very little sense in this game because it is a closed setup, we don't even know what the available abilities are. I mean as you (Silver) said above it could be worth it if you happen to have an easily recognizable ability to claim, but I'm expecting that most of the roles in this game are fairly unique (my only data points are my own and the gimmick Scotty hinted at having, but I get the feeling there are a lot of obscure abilities in this game). It just seems to me that there would be little utility in revealing your power if nobody will recognize it -- sure maybe we'd believe it wasn't just made up, but we'd have no way of corroborating it as a civvie role rather than a scum one. Idk, I could be wrong and there could be plenty of "normal" abilities in this game that would be worthwhile to claim if nobody else could counterclaim them, but it just seems odd that you'd so strongly expect Dys to claim at this stage (again with so few votes) so much that the lack of claim is vote-worthy to you. Probably just a culture thing, but Dys isn't from the same site as silver, right?

Or perhaps I misread the intent of your vote, and you were merely adding another vote so as to attempt to pressure Dys into claiming? I'm still so not used to this style of voting and I usually think of voting as a stronger committment/ultimate expression of suspicion and less used to it just being a temporary way of pressuring someone. I guess I have played several games with changeable votes now, and have tried to get into the practice of voting early to express suspicion that's subject to change to pressure people into defending, but in the past I was so used to saving my vote for as late as possible to ensure I went with my most confident choice. Anyway, was that the intent of your vote? Do you want Dys to be more in danger of a lynch so as to pressure a claim?

I just still can't see it being helpful. Again, as speedchuck said, maybe if Dys had enough votes to be getting worried, but that's not the case, and even then the closed setup means a claim is not a particularly foolproof defense.

This post has me nodding in agreement. Silver wants us to move past Dys, so I'm going to try a little ISO magic on him.

[sig]

Is it still day 1 am I still alive? Also stop trying to lynch me

Golden As a placeholder.

[speedchuck]

Here are some of the people that have been in recent scumreads:

Fredwood
Sig
Strawhenge
Sorsha
LC
Nacho
Me
DrWilgy
Scotty
Marmot

JackofHearts/JJJ? They seem possibly suspicious toward one another. Not w/w at the least.

I'd have to trust others concerning Wigly's usual D1 play. As a matter of fact, I think INH is the only person I've played with before. So I have no metareads.

I'm not feeling great about voting for Strawhenge or Long Con anymore. I don't have a townread on them, but most of my interactions with them was arguing about dizzy logic. I can't read them yet, and they might be helpful.

The rest I am fine with lynching. I like JOH over JJJ at the moment. The big problem is that most of these people aren't memorable. I'd have to scour the pages for their posts.

I may just do that.

Off of the list above, does anyone want to give some reads? Try to get a consensus going? Especially you, SIG. Welcome back.

[Golden]

I don't think it matters how it went for dizzy. I think more relevant is how he expected it to go. I found him at his most genuine when he indicated surprise at the heat it took - and it makes sense to me that if it's normal in other places he wouldn't expect it to be abnormal here.

For that reason, I disagree with the assertion that it was likely that dizzy got lynched after slip (in his mind) and so he shouldn't have seen it as risky. Likewise, it doesn't seem likely that he expected to have to defend it and so he shouldn't have seen it as giving him huge town cred.

That's why I come to the view it's a marmot-style 'lols' play he'd do from any affiliation, and my own town read comes from his other content and not in any way the slip.

Because I haven't got a vote down yet:

SIG

Loving this evaluation of Dizzy's motivation. Makes me feel better about putting you green.

Why Sig?

His early posts weren't inspiring and I'm waiting for him to come back.

If he doesn't come back, are you gonna try to lynch him?

If you're talking matter of degrees, it's not like I'm intending to build a massive case and spend my effort persuading people my choice is best, although I think it's wise to make sure we hit soft lynch on someone.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Is it still day 1 am I still alive? Also stop trying to lynch me

Golden As a placeholder.

How many votes are on you right now? I don't actually know, serious question. I am thinking one?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Here are some of the people that have been in recent scumreads:

Fredwood
Sig
Strawhenge
Sorsha
LC
Nacho
Me
DrWilgy
Scotty
Marmot

JackofHearts/JJJ? They seem possibly suspicious toward one another. Not w/w at the least.

I'd have to trust others concerning Wigly's usual D1 play. As a matter of fact, I think INH is the only person I've played with before. So I have no metareads.

I'm not feeling great about voting for Strawhenge or Long Con anymore. I don't have a townread on them, but most of my interactions with them was arguing about dizzy logic. I can't read them yet, and they might be helpful.

The rest I am fine with lynching. I like JOH over JJJ at the moment. The big problem is that most of these people aren't memorable. I'd have to scour the pages for their posts.

I may just do that.

Off of the list above, does anyone want to give some reads? Try to get a consensus going? Especially you, SIG. Welcome back.

I like this reduced list.

To be clear, you like me better than JJJ because you think I'm more town? Or you like me better for a noose?

[Silver Lantern]

Interesting how poll votes 17-21 derail away from the JJJ NE direction...

Vote 17: Nachomama8, East
Vote 18: Elochin, East (who knew this was a person in this game... )
Vote 19: Dyslexicon, East
Vote 20: Sorcha, North
Vote 21: Speedchuck, East

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I can't remember for sure, but did someone here recently switch votes in the poll from North-East to East? Just asking, please say so if you did. I have reasons.

[Silver Lantern]

JoH can be extremely devious as scum. Do not assume he cannot be W/W with JJJ even if they're feuding in game. From what I've seen of JJJ, he's probably saavy enough to pull off that play too.

I do think they're both acting pretty town FWIW, just saying don't dismiss the possibility completely.

[nutella]

I don't think it matters how it went for dizzy. I think more relevant is how he expected it to go. I found him at his most genuine when he indicated surprise at the heat it took - and it makes sense to me that if it's normal in other places he wouldn't expect it to be abnormal here.

For that reason, I disagree with the assertion that it was likely that dizzy got lynched after slip (in his mind) and so he shouldn't have seen it as risky. Likewise, it doesn't seem likely that he expected to have to defend it and so he shouldn't have seen it as giving him huge town cred.

That's why I come to the view it's a marmot-style 'lols' play he'd do from any affiliation, and my own town read comes from his other content and not in any way the slip.

Ditto ditto ditto. This sums up my thoughts on dizzy pretty well.

[VOTE: ] aubergine[VOTE:

Out of all the people I've had some suspicion on today, this one is the strongest. I had some doubts about culture clash but the more I see from Silver Lantern and JoH, the less his posts are excusable. They both have been in the thick of things, not using their unfamiliarity with the posters/style here to excuse their activity/opinions. posted his opinion on the Dys situation to then turn around and say his opinion should be ignored in favor of others. He posted that seeming scummy is a town method of surviving longer where he is from, which I can't see much of a town motivation for posting here. He at that point could tell that is not the standard here nor was there any suspicion on him at the time, so mentioning it could only ever serve as a preliminary defense for any future scum behavior from him or SL/JoH's. Preemptive defenses are near the top of my scumtell list.

Could still be culture clash but I'm betting my money that it is attempting to abuse culture clash to gain an edge.] aubergine

[VOTE:

This is an interesting take. I haven't had the best feelings about Fred either (he made orange on my list) -- out of the several players in this game that I'm unfamiliar with, he's made the least good impression on me and seemed to blend in pretty blendily. Silver's description of his meta doesn't help his case (trying to counteract usual style? piiiiing)] aubergine

[VOTE: This exchange with sig is giving me problems:] aubergine

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: This little flippity flop especially struck me the wrong way.] aubergine

[VOTE:

What am I to do? I said something that was true to me at the time, and then when it was wrong I wanted to correct it.

In the same circumstance, what would you do?] aubergine

[VOTE:

I do agree with INH, those posts did seem strange, but would it be something the mafia would do? I don't think so.] aubergine

[VOTE:

What was strange about them?] aubergine

[VOTE:

The fact you said you didn't have the map then you said you did.

It could have been a PM slip true, but I'm not convinced that's the case. However, I don't see any reason why a mafia member would do this, I view it more as you trying to make it harder to narrow down the map holder and as of right now we have four(?) people claiming the map. Myself, MM, Golden, and JJJ.

So I wouldn't lynch vote you on that and I would find it suspicious for people to use that as a reason to vote for you.

Speaking of voting I should totally get an item tonight. Vote for me then.

Also I voted East since Philadelphia is on a east coast.] aubergine

[VOTE:

That he bothered to qualify Golden's map PM/no PM thing as "strange" while also batting it away as something not suspicious strikes me a pointless combination of thoughts -- i.e. I don't know why "strange" needed to be stated. At the same time I can't tell if this is one of this things with sig and words where he just voices a perspective a little awkwardly or if there's something to be concerned about.

If there's a separate beef to be stated about sig it's that his posts were item-centric when he was around. Hunting was nil/limited.] aubergine

[VOTE:

Yeah, bad look for Sig. Especially with the "would a mafia have any reason to do this?" re: deciding to map claim right as he himself map claims. Hello wifom. Plus as you say he's pretty item-centric, nominating himself, to me this all falls into the same category of self-centered neutrality you also accused Sorsha of.

Leaving my vote on Wilgy for now, but I'm more than willing to switch to Sig or Fred if the tide swings toward either of them. I'll wait and see which if any of them (or Sorsha) come back to defend themselves/participate, and go from there.

Linki: Well there's sig, and not with the most reassuring tone. Might have to switch my vote to you buddy unless you put in some effort. I don't like that attitude.] aubergine

[Jackofhearts2005]

I think there becomes a point after the third or so claimed map that claiming maps becomes scummy. I.e., it is "helping defend the real map holder" for townie cred while not actually doing anything.

This is already factored into my Sig read.

I haven't direction voted because:
1) I don't know who has the map but probably JJJ
2) I've lost some confidence in JJJ
3) I'm unaware of how much the map actually tells us
4) Assuming I knew a player was town and had the map and the map was explicit...I'm still not sure how much the direction helps.

I'll vote to follow Golden but I'm doing so with a shrug.

[Fredwood]

Well I thought I was posting content and trying to be "helpful" and giving reads and pointing out posts that I did not like, but I guess they weren't or people are only going to take one post as the entire context for my participation as the basis for their argument so Fuck it. Not really sure what to say, if it isn't good enough, oh well was trying my best.

But yeah, I suck at mafia so it's all good.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

At the moment I could vote for anyone among Sorsha, DrWilgy, and sig. They've all been prodded, and they've all appeared to offer nothing. I am a bit concerned though that Wilgy's comment about lynching him affecting the way we perceive his meta was genuine though, because I could see Wilgy being the type to care about that and allow himself to die for it.

[nutella]

I think there becomes a point after the third or so claimed map that claiming maps becomes scummy. I.e., it is "helping defend the real map holder" for townie cred while not actually doing anything.

This is already factored into my Sig read.

Yeah exactly this. I definitely got really bad jubies from Sig's map claim in particular.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Kidding. Following JJJ. He seems to care more for whatever that's worth.

[speedchuck]

To be clear, you like me better than JJJ because you think I'm more town? Or you like me better for a noose?

More town.

And thanks for the heads up, Silver Lantern. Will keep that in mind when evaluating JJJ/JOH.

I can't remember for sure, but did someone here recently switch votes in the poll from North-East to East? Just asking, please say so if you did. I have reasons.

I started out east, switched to Northeast, then back to east. I can explain why, but if you have reasons, go ahead with them.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Well I thought I was posting content and trying to be "helpful" and giving reads and pointing out posts that I did not like, but I guess they weren't or people are only going to take one post as the entire context for my participation as the basis for their argument so Fuck it. Not really sure what to say, if it isn't good enough, oh well was trying my best.

But yeah, I suck at mafia so it's all good.

Keep doing what you're doing. Reads are never a bad thing if you're a townie. Suspicion happens, you have to power forward. I don't find you particularly suspicious, personally.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I can't remember for sure, but did someone here recently switch votes in the poll from North-East to East? Just asking, please say so if you did. I have reasons.

I started out east, switched to Northeast, then back to east. I can explain why, but if you have reasons, go ahead with them.

Go ahead and explain first and then I'll say what I have to say.

[speedchuck]

At the moment I could vote for anyone among Sorsha, DrWilgy, and sig. They've all been prodded, and they've all appeared to offer nothing. I am a bit concerned though that Wilgy's comment about lynching him affecting the way we perceive his meta was genuine though, because I could see Wilgy being the type to care about that and allow himself to die for it.

This is a pretty good selection for D1, I feel.

And don't worry Fredwood, you aren't that high up on my personal list either. I just have trouble particularly remembering your posts.

About the changing directions: I don't want there to be a tie. I keep switching to the direction that keeps us further from a tie.
To be fair, I didn't get here until after map discussion was about over. So if I should have a reason to follow someone, please, explain.

[Jackofhearts2005]

@Realmsers

The "view your posts button is similar to our usercp button if you don't want emails.

There's a setting that lets you disable signatures, which makes the forum more readable.

[Golden]

Kidding. Following JJJ. He seems to care more for whatever that's worth.

About being followed? Maybe he's got a stalker complex.

I like Nutella a lot today, big town read.

[Fredwood]

Well either I'm not posting content or I am. Not really sure how to defend myself if I'm being accused of both with the later being used as as proof of a deviation of my meta.

You want to say I read scum and not helping fine, but I'm also being accused of trying to fit in and adapt to the playstyle here as proof of my scum...it's all very convenient.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

About the changing directions: I don't want there to be a tie. I keep switching to the direction that keeps us further from a tie.
To be fair, I didn't get here until after map discussion was about over. So if I should have a reason to follow someone, please, explain.

Okay, thanks for answering. There was a response that you might have given that I had in mind which would have been a good look for you IMO: after my spat with Golden, you decided you trusted Golden more and thus opted to follow his lead in the directions/map dynamic. That you'd have had any inclination to approach the poll that way, and to be thinking about that detail, would have looked very civilian to me.

That's not the answer you've provided, but I still think avoiding ties a decent look. That still represents investment in the result of a poll with a still-unknown purpose or function. I appreciate the mobility of your vote on that front.

[Fredwood]

that was directed at JJJ I guess.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Well either I'm not posting content or I am. Not really sure how to defend myself if I'm being accused of both with the later being used as as proof of a deviation of my meta.

You want to say I read scum and not helping fine, but I'm also being accused of trying to fit in and adapt to the playstyle here as proof of my scum...it's all very convenient.

Do you feel that any of your accusers are trying to take advantage of you?

[Fredwood]

meaning not that you view me as scum and I have to defend myself but just continuing the conversation.

[Long Con]

To the three Map-Holders: Do you think you should be followed? Do you feel like you can look at the map and further a Civ win with your choices?

Just curious because my choice (East) was mostly random.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

To the three Map-Holders: Do you think you should be followed? Do you feel like you can look at the map and further a Civ win with your choices?

Just curious because my choice (East) was mostly random.

The actions I take in this game are in the interest of a civilian victory. I cannot guarantee that I will make every right move or decision map or otherwise, but I will try with the resources available. I want you to choose who you follow based upon who you trust.

[DrWilgy]

I'm on page 15 but checking in to say I won't be around today per request of the girl. So if something was said of me after page 15, my apologies!

This

[JaggedJimmyJay]

INH, Scotty, DFaraday, Sorsha:

You have elected to go North in the poll. Does this reflect trust that you have in Marmot as the first to select that direction, or have you voted for other reasons?

[Fredwood]

Well either I'm not posting content or I am. Not really sure how to defend myself if I'm being accused of both with the later being used as as proof of a deviation of my meta.

You want to say I read scum and not helping fine, but I'm also being accused of trying to fit in and adapt to the playstyle here as proof of my scum...it's all very convenient.

Do you feel that any of your accusers are trying to take advantage of you?

Meaning what, I think they're scum? The two that are saying I've only contributed by saying I was trying to create a screen because of style clash, possibly. SonejI was already high on my list before because of his interaction with Silver.

Speedchuck's inability to remember my posts may be genuine may be not, I tend to remember a lot, so I maybe projecting that he should remember regardless of my posts vanillainess.

Silver still reads town, but the lack of content jibe is annoying, because I actually am trying.

Nutella seems more town because they're trying to use other realmsers to create a meta read for me.

Jack is Jack

[Long Con]

To the three Map-Holders: Do you think you should be followed? Do you feel like you can look at the map and further a Civ win with your choices?

Just curious because my choice (East) was mostly random.

The actions I take in this game are in the interest of a civilian victory. I cannot guarantee that I will make every right move or decision map or otherwise, but I will try with the resources available. I want you to choose who you follow based upon who you trust.

Ok then. I was looking more for a straight answer than a political statement.

Pretend you're a dude with a map, and I'm another dude, and I say "Hey dude - can you read that thing? Do you know which direction will, like, help Civs win?"

And it looks like I'm already voting with who I trust the most, so that's good I guess.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

unvote

vote sig

It's been a long time since I've voted this way. Nostalgia.

[Strawhenge]

Dang it, I haven't given any thought to the direction. Who has the map? Or is claiming to?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

And it looks like I'm already voting with who I trust the most, so that's good I guess.

It is good. I'm not discussing the map further.

[Golden]

To the three Map-Holders: Do you think you should be followed? Do you feel like you can look at the map and further a Civ win with your choices?

Just curious because my choice (East) was mostly random.

I already sort of answered that:

If we go to a location that turns out to be favourable, I might be able to help us get back there. It looks like you can't get everywhere from everywhere, though. For now, it's meaningless to me.

There is neither ulterior motive nor helpful information that led me to choose East. The map will hopefully gain usefulness later.

[Fredwood]

Dang it, I haven't given any thought to the direction. Who has the map? Or is claiming to?

Marmot was first JJJ is second, Golden claimed to not to have it then said he did.

I believe there was one more claimant, but it was much later in the phase and I don't think anyone really took them seriously.

If I'm missing someone else I apologize.

[speedchuck]

Dang it, I haven't given any thought to the direction. Who has the map? Or is claiming to?

To my knowledge, JJJ, Marmot, and Sig, but there is another. I forget who and I'm in the middle of a Fredwood ISO

[Strawhenge]

I was just looking at sig because of Jay's vote, and sig also said he has the map. But then his only game-related posts have been about Golden's flip flop, and sig's language in that case suggests that sig doesn't have it.

I'm confused.

[Strawhenge]

Gah. sig is suspicious, but Golden's flip flop on the map-having is a big ol' Costco-size box of WIFOM.

[Silver Lantern]

This is an interesting take. I haven't had the best feelings about Fred either (he made orange on my list) -- out of the several players in this game that I'm unfamiliar with, he's made the least good impression on me and seemed to blend in pretty blendily. Silver's description of his meta doesn't help his case (trying to counteract usual style? piiiiing)

Just to give a fair assessment of what I meant. I believe that he might be changing up his playstyle to post more, regardless of alignment. Games on our home site don't go 20 pages on D1. Heck, sometimes entire games don't go that long. I feel I am posting more and trying to address everything directed at me too, just because I think that's more the way you guys play. Like I said earlier in the game, it's perfectly normal for townies on our home site to sit by and not do much "scum hunting" at all.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Regarding sig and claiming the map:

He does have some history established here for providing cover. He did it in Triskaidekaphobia (and when I congratulated him for it I was eviscerated ) to cover for the hypothetical cop. He has played on MU and has a better grasp of role claim friendly games than most Syndicate regulars because of the experience he draws from there.

So in that regard I think there is reason to forgive the map claim. I could see that being an attempt at cover. I think though that his experience is exactly what renders something like that null. He knows how it works, and in this game he knows he is playing with people who know how it works (anyone who's seen it before, i.e. the newcomers, Golden, me, Marmot, etc). The map claim isn't something that bothers me very much. I am more concerned that his posts are vacant otherwise beyond just item stuff, and that just now he made an appearance and did nothing with it. "Stop trying to lynch me" with a basically random Golden vote doesn't inspire me.

[Silver Lantern]

@Realmsers

The "view your posts button is similar to our usercp button if you don't want emails.

There's a setting that lets you disable signatures, which makes the forum more readable.

Thanks for the sig tip!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

This is an interesting take. I haven't had the best feelings about Fred either (he made orange on my list) -- out of the several players in this game that I'm unfamiliar with, he's made the least good impression on me and seemed to blend in pretty blendily. Silver's description of his meta doesn't help his case (trying to counteract usual style? piiiiing)

Just to give a fair assessment of what I meant. I believe that he might be changing up his playstyle to post more, regardless of alignment. Games on our home site don't go 20 pages on D1. Heck, sometimes entire games don't go that long. I feel I am posting more and trying to address everything directed at me too, just because I think that's more the way you guys play. Like I said earlier in the game, it's perfectly normal for townies on our home site to sit by and not do much "scum hunting" at all.

I can confirm this statement. I played a game on HCR, and the threads are definitely a lot smaller. The hunting is definitely a lot thinner. These are criticisms, just acknowledgements of the differences between our sites.

The fact that you and Fred are both making a concerted effort to keep up with this more torrent pace is a nice look. It's much easier to do that when you have genuine intentions. JOH however I am a little less inclined to give the same credit because of his experiences outside HCR.

[nutella]

I was just looking at sig because of Jay's vote, and sig also said he has the map. But then his only game-related posts have been about Golden's flip flop, and sig's language in that case suggests that sig doesn't have it.

I'm confused.

Wait why do you think that? Sig was claiming to have the map and questioning Golden's motive for fake-claiming it. I personally think sig was fake-claiming, but his language about Golden does not suggest sig doesn't have it.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I can confirm this statement. I played a game on HCR, and the threads are definitely a lot smaller. The hunting is definitely a lot thinner. These are NOT criticisms, just acknowledgements of the differences between our sites.

Corrected. I hate it when a typo makes me look like an asshole.

[nutella]

This is an interesting take. I haven't had the best feelings about Fred either (he made orange on my list) -- out of the several players in this game that I'm unfamiliar with, he's made the least good impression on me and seemed to blend in pretty blendily. Silver's description of his meta doesn't help his case (trying to counteract usual style? piiiiing)

Just to give a fair assessment of what I meant. I believe that he might be changing up his playstyle to post more, regardless of alignment. Games on our home site don't go 20 pages on D1. Heck, sometimes entire games don't go that long. I feel I am posting more and trying to address everything directed at me too, just because I think that's more the way you guys play. Like I said earlier in the game, it's perfectly normal for townies on our home site to sit by and not do much "scum hunting" at all.

Fair. I actually looked back at Fred's ISO and feel a bit better about him at this point. He's still toward the lower end of my rainbow but not so much that I'm likely to pursue him today.

[speedchuck]

EY, FREDWOOD! You were the first player I responded to!

And many other times too. You just don't have the most memorable username/avatar. My apologies.

Why does anyone suspect Fredwood? His posts seem pretty constructive, his reaction to the Dizzy debacle was great, and up until the recent complaints, I can't really fault him for anything. He's been here, too.

Plopping him in townreads, for now.

[Silver Lantern]

Silver still reads town, but the lack of content jibe is annoying, because I actually am trying.

Don't take it too personal, I would probably say something similar about 70% of the players in the game. I know that you're trying cause I know how you usually play, I just meant that you're not posting as much of the relevant "read" stuff as some of the others.

I am still not sure that all these "reads" aren't an exercise in mental masturbation on D1, but we'll see I suppose.

[Fredwood]

My avatar is the alchemical symbol for Caput Mortuum, or worthless remains. So maybe the non descript feeling you're getting is subliminal knowledge of ancient alchemical symbols Maybe I should change ethereal avatar to have more popular like that seizure inducing Dale Cooper avatar.