Phenon Mafia: ENDGAME - Snuffed

[speedchuck]

Never mind, googled it.

Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Institute.

Gotcha.

[Golden]

I have to have a vote that can work as my final vote done in the next eight hours, because there's no guarantee I'll be able to get back (and an absolute guarantee I won't be able to be current with the thread) for at least the rest of the phase after that point.

So, to this end, while I do a bit more of a detailed reads list, I'd really like as many people as possible to give me gth reads or, preferably, a short precis of why they think each of the following people is a good or not good choice for a vote. As things stand right now, these are the people I have any level of active suspicion on.

Jay
Eloh
Marmot
inh

(No, I'm not looking to go with 'most popular vote', but I am already having trouble keeping up with everything due to my limited time, and this will help me make sure I have in the open points in favour and against these choices).

Also @Jay - I saw you said we don't know wilgy is dead, but it looks like he is dead from OP. In any event, because of the way polling works during the day, sprit I think it's worth clarifying whether or not someone who appears dead can actually be alive, and voteable. I'd assume not.

[speedchuck]

sprit I think it's worth clarifying whether or not someone who appears dead can actually be alive, and voteable. I'd assume not.

"Is this guy alive so that we can kill him?"

Yeah, I'll get your requested reads down soon. Already did Marmot. Don't want to lynch him yet.

[Golden]

Hey, Jack. As I'm doing the reads, I realise I don't have much of one on silver. Do you have any meta-based views?

[Golden]

sprit I think it's worth clarifying whether or not someone who appears dead can actually be alive, and voteable. I'd assume not.

"Is this guy alive so that we can kill him?"

Yeah, I'll get your requested reads down soon. Already did Marmot. Don't want to lynch him yet.

I mean, apologies for asking dumb questions to closed setup clusterfuck experts. I just don't know what is on the table and what isn't.

[Golden]

quin - I've liked Quin since the moment he noticed Dizzy's slip and I think he has done more besides which looks genuinely hunty.
Jack - I get vibes very similar to Unfortunate Events, where although he was technically indy he leaned town all game
nutella - Oozes town

sloonei - I've liked his early stuff. He's not afraid to provide reads even when he's just starting the thread, and I like this a lot. It also doesn't hurt that I liked Sorsha's early responses to Jay
dizzy - his reaction to how people took his fakeslip, and subsequent hunting, both came across as townie to me.

A big pile of yellow here

soneji - The soneji/silver argument kind of passed me by, and I feel like I need to read it back. I've had no real interaction with soneji this game either, and I can't remember his viewpoint on anything.
Silver - Same goes for silver as soneji, although in this case I think it's the number of new people that I'm finding challenging. Part of it is that I know I need to read that early discussion back.
LC - I hated his early dizzy stuff, it's objectively scummy. I also feel like it's par for the course LC, who often looks terrible for stuff like this then comes back town. It usually takes me two or three cycles to get a firm read on LC, but I feel like he's more likely on the upswing than the downswing.
speedchuck - Of all the newbies, speedchuck is the closest to going down the list. His responses to why I pinged him were good on the first read, but when I realised that he had already read my full explanation for why I didn't vote when he raised it (I didn't want to push a bandwagon vote to potential hammer range, especially before doing my own research), it bothers me a bit. I don't really know why speedchuck would see it as the civilian thing to do to rush in on a vote even after knowing my explanation. But, I can't quite tell to what extent this is culture. (I also appreciate his Star Wars reference)
scotty - He's been busy and I have no read. However, I'd rather not vote scotty today (for reasons - not infodumpy reasons though).
DF - How do you solve a problem like DF
fred - fred's banter feels fred, based on interactions in other places like signups and elimination game. It's disarmingly charming, but he doesn't get a town read for being himself.
straw - how to take his dizzy stuff. A civilian pushing a boulder up a metal ramp in the rain, or a baddie looking busy to an end he knew was unlikely to come back to bite? I haven't played with Strawhenge in a while, but I perceive him differently in this game. I usually get a strong town vibe from him, this time I don't yet. I'm giving it time.

inh
jay - I feel like I see a lot of evidence of Jay half-assing his viewpoints and not thinking them through or balancing them, which is what I normally see from him. A point in his favour is that I find his disappointment at Nacho's death genuine
Eloh - It's not the vote, it's the fact that she had to read enough of the thread to know dizzy only had a one vote lead over sig (as at sprit's most recent tally... it was actually tied at the time she voted), and yet she described it as 'following the people'. Town Eloh has trouble keeping up, but my memory is that she also tends to be forthright about it and asks for help/brief catch up posts from others, which was absent here.
marmot - he's been scarce across the board (not just in this game) but I don't understand much of his mindset in this game yet. Reminds me a little of Dune.

[Golden]

Wow, I should have just put the names in colour. That's hideous.

[Golden]

And also I missed inh - I'm used to him being more active and peddling his views as town. I don't know what he is like as bad, but I find him noticeably missing this game after his early posts.

[Golden]

I'm going Southeast.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Eloh

I noted a parallel to her mafia play in Turf Wars. I believe that she is legitimately behind, but like you would have expected a little something more earnest than what she provided when she voted.

Marmot

At the moment I see no compelling reasons to trust or suspect Marmot. I can confirm that he's in three games at once so I am willing to give him a break for being quieter. His posts give me no indication of anything.

inh

I thought he looked authentic early in Day 1, particularly in his resistance to what he might perceive as typical Golden/JJJ thread dominance (primarily in the map dialogue). I have no significant beefs to state right now. He has tailed off recently. Silver Lantern put up a lot of content critical of INH and I'd like to see where that goes.

In your pile I think Elohcin is the best vote.

[speedchuck]

quin - I've liked Quin since the moment he noticed Dizzy's slip and I think he has done more besides which looks genuinely hunty.
speedchuck - Of all the newbies, speedchuck is the closest to going down the list. His responses to why I pinged him were good on the first read, but when I realised that he had already read my full explanation for why I didn't vote when he raised it (I didn't want to push a bandwagon vote to potential hammer range, especially before doing my own research), it bothers me a bit. I don't really know why speedchuck would see it as the civilian thing to do to rush in on a vote even after knowing my explanation. But, I can't quite tell to what extent this is culture. (I also appreciate his Star Wars reference)

Where did I star wars reference? I am trying to find it.

[speedchuck]

Marmot

His posts give me no indication of anything.

This is about where I am.

[Golden]

Where did I star wars reference? I am trying to find it.

You said 'don't get cocky, kid', which I assumed was a Han Solo reference. Was I wrong?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

jay - I feel like I see a lot of evidence of Jay half-assing his viewpoints and not thinking them through or balancing them, which is what I normally see from him. A point in his favour is that I find his disappointment at Nacho's death genuine

To be honest there might be truth to that. In this game I am a civilian who feels rather like a scum. That might make people look at me in a crappy light, but oh well I can't be bothered. I'm very fatigued of Mafia, and even the effort I have provided in this game has been more out of a sense of obligation to the town than out of a personal desire to play hard. I can imagine my deteriorating emotional investment in my work is reflected in it at times.

If there's anything that would have animated me to play this game at my best, it would have been a scum role. I get them so rarely around here that I would want to take full advantage of that opportunity to strut my stuff. 90% of this website has never even seen me in that alignment and I've been here for almost 2 years now.

[Golden]

Jay, how much weight do you think I should give to Nacho's death, in reading you?

[speedchuck]

Where did I star wars reference? I am trying to find it.

You said 'don't get cocky, kid', which I assumed was a Han Solo reference. Was I wrong?

I can't seem to find myself saying that. It would have been so cool. Darnit, me.

[Golden]

Damn, it was silver lantern. Sorry!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay, how much weight do you think I should give to Nacho's death, in reading you?

I wouldn't expect you to give me the key to the city for it. I do think it is an important detail in my favor, and if the scum team wanted to enjoy my declining credit that kill was a mistake. I guess it's just a matter of whether you believe these are true enough to be reflected in my hypothetical killing behavior:

1. If I am a mafioso, I have a very loud voice in BTSC and will surely influence the kill choice.
2. I have played only 1 phase of Mafia ever with Nacho and was excited to play with him again in this game.
3. Prior to you informing me of Monkey Island, I genuinely thought this was Nacho's first civilian game on The Syndicate.
4. Fostering an environment in games filled with visitors where they are most likely to return to play with us is more important to me than winning.

I think you're more willing than most players to take this kind of argument seriously instead of discard it as WIFOM. And you should.

[Golden]

I do agree with it.

But you didn't hit on the real reason that I asked, which in some ways might be in your favour, since I think you'd be considering it publicly if you were bad and it was truly what happened...

The person I chose to target last night is not the person where my target ended up. Somewhere along the way I was redirected. I was wondering the extent to which you might take into account redirection in responding.

[speedchuck]

Damn, it was silver lantern. Sorry!

#not cool enough to meme the Star Wars

Also, your question about whether wilgy is dead or not was not stupid. The OP states that all alignments/roles will be revealed on death.
I'm pretty curious about it as well.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Question for the HCR folks:

What are your reads on each other?

Silver is town, imo. One of my most confident reads, along with Quin and Golden. As Fred said, he's case study townie Silver minus patented pursuit of me. (Silver and I tend to but heads as townies, which leads to head butting when one of us is scum, too.) I'm easily writing off not pursuing me because logically, that would be a huge mistake, here.

Fred is still a light town. Early Fred doesn't post or scumhunt much so keep in mind that his meta will be partially new to me and Silver as he forges new tactics. I like that he's doing so. I like that he's not too hesitant. I want to see more but I'm not suspicious of not seeing it yet.

Silver, Rokk, Bob (who does need to play here) and I tend to do most of the talking early. Bob and I tend to do most of the pushing. Additionally, the power roles let me be more sure than I am here. The contrast where I am middle of the pack and not fully confident instead of my usual banner waving lynch leader should lead to extra suspicion on me from them. However, they're being asked to up their game and look deeper, which is counteracting that, imo.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@Golden

That might be a good indicator that the kill wasn't redirected, since if it was that'd imply the presence of two redirecting roles. I have no idea how sprityo might design a setup; typically I think redundancies are less likely than an arrangement of unique role functions.

Scum Player X kills Whoever, redirected to Nacho
Golden targets Someone, redirected to Someone Else

It's hard to say though, since redirecting roles can take a lot of different shapes. Target swaps, source swaps, mirroring, etc. Very speculative.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Question for the HCR folks:

What are your reads on each other?

Silver is town, imo. One of my most confident reads, along with Quin and Golden. As Fred said, he's case study townie Silver minus patented pursuit of me. (Silver and I tend to but heads as townies, which leads to head butting when one of us is scum, too.) I'm easily writing off not pursuing me because logically, that would be a huge mistake, here.

I'm not sure what you mean by the highlighted portion, could you restate/expand?

[Golden]

@Golden

That might be a good indicator that the kill wasn't redirected, since if it was that'd imply the presence of two redirecting roles. I have no idea how sprityo might design a setup; typically I think redundancies are less likely than an arrangement of unique role functions.

Scum Player X kills Whoever, redirected to Nacho
Golden targets Someone, redirected to Someone Else

It's hard to say though, since redirecting roles can take a lot of different shapes. Target swaps, source swaps, mirroring, etc. Very speculative.

It's a clusterfuck. The only comparable game I can think of was RYM87, and I remember seeing double ups and jack of all trades and stuff there. I don't want to suggest we theorise based on the idea that it was redirected, I just wanted to see if you speculated on mechanical doubts, basically. You didn't, and I think that's actually a good look - I didn't know I'd think that in advance, but I do, because I think it demonstrates a mindset that you weren't considering the possibility.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Vote Elohcin

[JaggedJimmyJay]

A question for Quin:

Answer only to whatever extent you are comfortable with or deep appropriate (and if that means not answering at all, so be it). Did you experience any hindrances during the night phase to your knowledge?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

A question for Quin:

Answer only to whatever extent you are comfortable with or deem appropriate (and if that means not answering at all, so be it). Did you experience any hindrances during the night phase to your knowledge?

[nutella]

Don't have much time rn but caught up and I will say that I'm a little intrigued by speed's perspective of Scotty. I had a town read on him early on but I am open to seeing him otherwise and will keep him on my list of considerations for today along with jack, inh, mm, and eloh I guess. Will be back later with more elaboration on these and the reads that golden asked for (I'll probably do a full annotated rainbow when I get home from work).

[Marmot]

Quin, you reminded me of something I found interesting at the time. Why did no one put down the hammer on sig?

It would have been easy to justify given dizzy was essentially asking someone to. I feel like this could be noteworthy. Eg, did anyone express suspicion of sig but hold back from the hammer?

A couple of instincts at play. The first is that a civilian would have been more likely willing to drop the hammer from an optics perspective, I think, because a mafia would be more wary of standing out. Does this make sense? People with more hammer experience than I, what seems likely?

What does a hammer do aside from end the day early?

Curious of people's opinions of the kills. Did anyone feel Wigly was acting particularly scummy?

Sloonei to answer a question you asked last night, which I got a little lost in the shuffle over my arguing, I am suspicious of LC and INH and to a lesser extent Soneji. I particularly liked Strawhenge and NM8's playstyle, and I forget which one but one of them had a big issue with LC. I'd need to re ISO INH to recall what I didn't like about him but I tend to lump those two together and I hope it's not cause they both have blue names. I remember LC does.

Color names, confusing mafia reads since 2017...

I did yes.

To be honest, I'm surprised he wasn't lynched yesterday.

Playing mafia by yourself sucks. All you jobless nerds must sleep in a lot...

LOL

My immediate perspective of Sloonei is positive for a reason I will share later.

I'll expand now that Golden has responded: I appreciated Sloonei's willingness to provide thoughts like these about Golden, against the grain. To jump into the game and express a few pings about someone who is generally trusted in this thread is decent evidence of Sloonei's genuine concern about those points and his desire to state them. Mafia are generally just less likely to behave that way, especially Sloonei who I would qualify as a very careful player.

I don't agree with the pings though. I think Golden is typically willing to invoke WIFOM to explain himself; it's a mindset I understand because I share it. I don't think WIFOM is inherently suspicious, and indeed I think many players are too quick to ignore that stuff.

How does going against the grain make a player genuine?

I also want to explore the votes that stayed put on Dyslexicon through the end of the day:

Long Con, Marmot, Elohcin, INH

Could you all at least briefly explain why you felt comfortable leaving your votes there? I am inclined to view it with some suspicion because I don't know that you all were fair in your treatment of Dizzy in the post-Slip era. The "slip" itself caused a bit of an uproar, and then it was explained, and then Dizzy went on what I would call a lengthy and productive hunt through the remainder of Day 1. Their content was thicker and more substantive than the majority of other players in this game -- so what was it that warranted this vote if the slip was granted to not be a slip?

Elohcin, you said you were following the pack. I am pretty sure I have seen you do this exact thing before in a game where you didn't keep up, though I can't remember which one or what your alignment was. I'll try to find it.

I didn't make it back online to reconsider my vote. DrWilgy was another player I'd have voted for.

Bookmarking this post, will continue catching up later.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Question for the HCR folks:

What are your reads on each other?

Silver is town, imo. One of my most confident reads, along with Quin and Golden. As Fred said, he's case study townie Silver minus patented pursuit of me. (Silver and I tend to but heads as townies, which leads to head butting when one of us is scum, too.) I'm easily writing off not pursuing me because logically, that would be a huge mistake, here.

I'm not sure what you mean by the highlighted portion, could you restate/expand?

You remember my half true annoyance at Raven in Christmas mafia? Silver's generally about as bad and thinking I'm bad regardless of my real alignment, at least early on.

I would expect Silver focusing on guy reads on me to the detriment of the rest of his town game to not go over well with this crowd. He's rightly choosing to go less on gut and advance his game.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

How does going against the grain make a player genuine?

It doesn't always. It depends upon the person and the circumstance. Sloonei had some concerns about Golden that he wanted to voice, and he did so without concern for standing opposite the general consensus about Golden otherwise -- it's not a lynch he is likely going to be able to generate on Day 2, which means there's little room for opportunism. The more likely reality is that he really is concerned, which would be a good thing. I also don't think it's likely he was deliberately pursuing a read like this one either.

[Sloonei]

I'd be willing to contribute a vote on Elohcin right now. After her the closest thing I have to a suspect is my small Golden pings. On the plus side, I've got a small cluster of town reads.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I have very little time left this phase. I have no idea what kind of time constraints I'll be dealing with tomorrow. If anyone has any last requests for me, get 'em in now.

[Golden]

I have very little time left this phase. I have no idea what kind of time constraints I'll be dealing with tomorrow. If anyone has any last requests for me, get 'em in now.

Excluding your top suspects, who is the person you would iso right now if you had time?

[nutella]

I have to have a vote that can work as my final vote done in the next eight hours, because there's no guarantee I'll be able to get back (and an absolute guarantee I won't be able to be current with the thread) for at least the rest of the phase after that point.

So, to this end, while I do a bit more of a detailed reads list, I'd really like as many people as possible to give me gth reads or, preferably, a short precis of why they think each of the following people is a good or not good choice for a vote. As things stand right now, these are the people I have any level of active suspicion on.

Jay
Eloh
Marmot
inh

(No, I'm not looking to go with 'most popular vote', but I am already having trouble keeping up with everything due to my limited time, and this will help me make sure I have in the open points in favour and against these choices).

Also @Jay - I saw you said we don't know wilgy is dead, but it looks like he is dead from OP. In any event, because of the way polling works during the day, sprit I think it's worth clarifying whether or not someone who appears dead can actually be alive, and voteable. I'd assume not.

Since this has a time constraint I'll squeeze it in now.

Jay-- I still trust a fair amount. A little more wary just because you and others are wary of him, but I'm still inclined to civ read him. Would not consider voting him any time soon.

Eloh-- would consider voting, although there is little to go on I could definitely see her being an inactive member of a scum team

MM-- would consider voting. Not feeling particularly good about him but don't really have anything specific against him but could def see him as bad

Inh-- would probably consider but merits more looking into. I feel like he's been absent for a while? So I don't really know how I feel about him, will look into his iso later

[Jackofhearts2005]

Where the hell is LC?

Fred, Nut, what do you think of LC right now?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Where the hell is LC?

Fred, Nut, what do you think of LC right now?

And Speed.

[Golden]

Where the hell is LC?

Having a birthday, I presume.

[Long Con]

I think there may be some insight available in this Nacho kill. Yeah, WIFOM, I don't care. Thoughts:

~ He was generally given credit more often than not, but he wasn't given the most credit. There were a few other players, namely nutella and Golden, who were town read more universally. So I don't think that's likely to be the sole motive for a Nacho kill.

~ It was only his second game on the site, and his first as a civilian. If we're in a one-mafia-team scenario here, I think the driving voice behind that kill is more likely to be someone who is not a Syndicate regular. Most Syndicate regulars on this roster would be less inclined to kill a visitor on Night 1. It's technically not "wrong", but it's lame. The reason I distinguish one mafia team specifically is that if that's the case, it's likely a larger team which would by default clue that team a little bit into their solitude. In this situation they know themselves to be mafia and everyone else to not be mafia, or at least they have a reason to believe that. This means Nacho is being offed as a suspected civilian on Night 1 in his first civilian game on this website. I reiterate: lame. People I think would look better in this are Syndicate regulars who played with him last time: Quin, Golden, Scotty, Long Con, Soneji, Wilgy, Marmot, INH, Eloh. That's too many people, but I can reduce it further by focusing on those who I'd expect to have a prominent voice in Mafia BTSC: Quin, Golden, Scotty, and Long Con. Possibily Marmot and INH.

I know that's a crapload of speculation, but it was in my head and now it's in yours. Chew on it and do with it whatever you like.

~ He was not shy about stating confident reads. He might have been on the right track with enough of them to frighten the scum into killing him immediately despite not being the most-town-read player there was.

I can attest to that, for myself, anyway. Not that that probably matters much, because who wouldn't - but it's true. The goal of making people feel welcome on this site, to have them enjoy their time and stay here and become members of the community - that trumps game decisions, every time.

Maybe looking at his suspicions is a better way to go. I haven't looked over them.

Today is my birthday, and I'm going out with my family for dinner, and then out again later on. I'll sneak peeks to try and catch up here and there, but my posting will be minimal. I'll try to answer questions if any are flung my way. Tomorrow may not be much better, because I work, and then I'm taking my mother and mother in law so they can see Air Supply at Casino Rama while I gamble. Same checking-in applies - I won't be completely absent.

This post from JJJ represents where I am at in my catch up. Two surprising kills, and Wilgy is a mystery man, I see. I actually like this idea, I am going to incorporate it into my next hosted game. Maybe an item that temporarily janitors a kill, but the truth gets revealed three days later, that would be fun!

[Long Con]

And speak of the devil, I see the last four posts in linkitis as I tried to post. Here I am! I am having a birthday. I worked this morning, too. Just doing some catchup now.

[Golden]

Alternatively, there he is.

[Quin]

I'm downloading Firefox now, because I'm not able to login on Chrome and Microsoft Edge makes me want to throw my entire computer out the window. Give me 10 minutes, I'll be reading/skimming through everything from the latter half of Day 1.

3J asked me if my role was tampered with/redirected/whatever, and to that I refuse to answer. It sounds like an attempt to figure out what type of role I have. Why are you asking me in particular?

[sprityo]

sprit I think it's worth clarifying whether or not someone who appears dead can actually be alive, and voteable. I'd assume not.

"Is this guy alive so that we can kill him?"

Yeah, I'll get your requested reads down soon. Already did Marmot. Don't want to lynch him yet.

you may only vote for players listed as "On Board" on the OP

[speedchuck]

Where the hell is LC?

Fred, Nut, what do you think of LC right now?

And Speed.

Asking what I think of LC, or what Fred and Nut think of me?

LC is looking better. His absence today is accounted for, and he has some towny posts to his name. An ISO might prove otherwise, but I'm at light town on him, where I was once light scum.

[speedchuck]

sprit I think it's worth clarifying whether or not someone who appears dead can actually be alive, and voteable. I'd assume not.

"Is this guy alive so that we can kill him?"

Yeah, I'll get your requested reads down soon. Already did Marmot. Don't want to lynch him yet.

you may only vote for players listed as "On Board" on the OP

Could also be a role that makes the player disappear for a day.

Golden, you may get a chance to lynch them yet.

[Quin]

Anyway. I'm over defending myself from playstyle policing. If players want to vote me I expect a written out case of why I'm scum.

I will also require a hug from JJJ.

---

Will look at anti-alignments later.
On the top of my head I have:
JJJ/Nutella
JJJ/Golden
JJJ/Strawhenge
Soneji/Silver
Spped/Golden

^The above pairs are not likely teamed imo, for certain interactions in thread.
Basically, if JJJ flips scum at some point there are some players that are likely spewed town.

Also, I missed that Dfray (don't recall his name) had posted once. In the post he said he was going to start reading. Nothing since. That doesn't fill me with confidence and is actually on the scummier side.

I'm just posting as I read so ignore it if you've been asked/answered this already, but can you explain all of these pairings? Do you still believe in any number of them now?

[Jackofhearts2005]

I have to have a vote that can work as my final vote done in the next eight hours, because there's no guarantee I'll be able to get back (and an absolute guarantee I won't be able to be current with the thread) for at least the rest of the phase after that point.

So, to this end, while I do a bit more of a detailed reads list, I'd really like as many people as possible to give me gth reads or, preferably, a short precis of why they think each of the following people is a good or not good choice for a vote. As things stand right now, these are the people I have any level of active suspicion on.

Jay
Eloh
Marmot
inh

(No, I'm not looking to go with 'most popular vote', but I am already having trouble keeping up with everything due to my limited time, and this will help me make sure I have in the open points in favour and against these choices).

Also @Jay - I saw you said we don't know wilgy is dead, but it looks like he is dead from OP. In any event, because of the way polling works during the day, sprit I think it's worth clarifying whether or not someone who appears dead can actually be alive, and voteable. I'd assume not.

Jay I've touched on a lot.

I've played one game with Eloh where she didn't participate a ton early and she turned out to be scum. Is this scum Eloh I'm seeing or just Eloh? I don't really like the pile on, here, cause it likely won't go anywhere. Assuming she doesn't give us anything to go on, she's a better vig kill than lynch, imo, but others who know her meta better may have a stronger opinion on that.

Marmot looked bad to me early, then benefited from going after Dizzy a bit while I was semi tunneling (and semi devils advocating) on Dizzy. In hindsight, it doesn't look great. Like in Unfortunate Events, I'm seeing some chaos and messing but not a ton of hunting. Scum?

INH. Probably not w/w with LC, which is in his favor since LC looks bad to me. His rigidity on the train direction thing did him no favors. Speed and Silver sure make him look bad (he makes himself look bad). Need to reread his back and forth with LC. I'll get back to you on this one.


Wasn't I supposed to ISO somebody? Oh yeah. Nacho. Maybe later. LC and INH probably higher priorities. Been through Nacho's posts twice already and he's dead. Wish I knew why he changed his tune on Sonjei.

[Quin]

Dizzy's slip options:

A. The slip was an accident. Dizzy covered it up by finding an example from a previous game.

B. The slip was on purpose to win town points.

C. The slip was on purpose, to cause an uproar on D1 and provide actual discussion, as a sacrificial catalyst. AKA For Teh LOLs

Option B is viable, though a stupid strategy, as we see how well that went.

Option C allows for the fakeslip to be a plan, without giving Dizzy too much credit for thinking everything out.

Explain how Option B is not a viable scum move.

Current players with heavy suspicion of Dizzy: Silver, Marmot, LC
Current players with heavy suspicion of Dizzy that is actually related to slipgate that has not caused others to suspect them: Silver
Current players defending Dizzy: Speedchuck, JJJ
Current players calling it null or giving a slight town read on Dizzy: Quin, Nut, JoH, Golden, Fred, Straw
I call that a net win if Dizzy is scum, especially considering the general trust placed in JJJ, Nut, Quin and Golden.

Additionally, there was never a danger that Dizzy would be lynched for actual slip as he had the exact same move from another game in his back pocket to link to.


Explain how Option C is a good town move.
The only gain the town has gotten from all of this is maaaaybe a lead on LC for going at it when he should have backed off ("It's the dishonesty of it that gets me.") and maaaaaaybe a lead on Marmot for not reacting enough to it. Both of those are fairly large stretches and certainly not definitive without a flip.
Do you think Marmot or LC are scum?

I literally just said that B was a viable scum move.
C is not really a good town move. It wasn't a great play. Wasn't a good mafia move either.

My point was: Option A doesn't really work. That's my whole point. If you want to lynch Dizzy off of option B, be my guest.

Reads on Marmot and LC:
Marmot: light scum. He hasn't contributed much (as you said, not much reaction, but even related to other things) despite being here a good bit. The whole 'drunk' thing early day one reeked of building up trust (who would trust themselves to post as scum while drunk, I'm totes town), but IDK. I've never seen that sort of thing in a mafia game.
LC is hard to read. I'm honestly going back towards leaning town for him, because most of my issues with him are just disagreeing with his logic. I don't know his meta, but he seems like the type of person that doesn't back off when his logic is challenged. Players agreed early on in game that he was a defensive player in that sense.

Unvote
Yeah Strawhenge, it was pretty close to my feelings toward Long Con. I have trouble differentiating scum behavior from logic that I can't understand. It hurts to look at motives. I'll vote someone in the next few minutes.

People often mafia while drunk here. I don't have an answer for you about the probability of it being town behavior or scum behavior, but I wouldn't read too deeply into it, myself.

[Quin]

That's in reference to your scum-read on marmot btw. I forgot to colour it.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I have very little time left this phase. I have no idea what kind of time constraints I'll be dealing with tomorrow. If anyone has any last requests for me, get 'em in now.

Excluding your top suspects, who is the person you would iso right now if you had time?

Long Con is the first name to come to mind.