Phenon Mafia: ENDGAME - Snuffed

[Marmot]

Actually, I know a few players here that I do feel comfortable suspecting or ruling out based on nightkill targes.

However, the only such player I know of is me, and I'm not eligible at the moment.

Linki: I'm used to not knowing who the nightkilled player was when they're killed. That's the norm here.

It's esepecially difficult when there are multiple mafia teams.

I can see why you hate such a concept, but we Syndicaters live on that mechanic, and that sort of mechanic is balanced out by stronger and more common civlian roles.

[Dyslexicon]

I have a question for you. Why do you call me Marmot?

What are your questions for me?

Someone called you Marmot or refered to you as such, and apparently I like it better than MM.

Mainly points in this post:

Spoiler: show

Thank you, JJJ, for the Tab trick!

@JJJ - What Fred said.

@Whoever brought it up - The reason for me thinking JJJ/Nut not teamed is that JJJ gave a very heavy town read on Nut early on. I would not expect a scum to do this to a rather low poster teammate.

---

I'm sure I had other things I wanted to comment on. Don't know when day ends, so going to throw out some cold reads:

Townish:
Nut, Straw, Fred

Slight town:
Silver, Quin. Golden, Jack

On the townier side of null:
Soneji, Scotty, Wilgy

Null:
Nacho

On the scummier side of null or sligh scum:
Sig, Dfray, JJJ

Scummish/suspects:
Marmot, INH, Speed, LC

---

Raisins:
Marmot: Ok, so nobody ever talks about Marmot/MM. Which I find suspicious in itself, but that's not his fault. Anyway, I don't like this progression:

That... is actually a pretty accurate description of how I like to play.

^In response to me talking about my playstyle.

That being said, your slip, it looked like an accident. You assert that it was not an accident, but a fakeslip. You then introduced some reads after the fact. Nacho made a good point that you didn't factor the 'fakeslip' into your reads. I think (without looking at your link to your other game) it was an accident.

^In the same post - how can he legitly think it was still a real slip? Also pointing to Nacho to support that I didn't factor in the fakeslip into my reads instead of going to my post. I factor everything into my reads, who's anyone else to say what I'm basing my reads on. I specifically based my Marmot vote on it in fact. Also, he doesn't need to look at the link to know what's in it as it has been discussed a lot. He's completely disregarding a lot of info, so this just reads like he's not interested in actually figuring out my alignment. Which is not a town mindset.

Why do dizzy's posts after his slip make me feel so good? Should I reconsider?

This I also dislike. Also, "reconsider" from what? He wasn't voting me at this time.

---

INH, I honestly don't have a case on. Just seems to be on the sidelines a lot and I find that's how scum feels like a lot of the time. Should check his posts at some point.

---

Speed, I posted my suspicions of here:

@Speed, I want you to explain your read on me. You're tip-toeing around it. You comment a lot on logic, strategy and meta discussions, but you don't give very much in terms of reads. You've stated several times that I'm null-ish to you and that I'm nok exactly looking good and that it's understanable that players want to lynch me etc. But at the same time you're arguing against what these players are saying. So in your own words, what is your read on me and why?

I'm very suspicious of you.

I do think his tone is good, but he talks mostly about things around the game, and doesn't really go far to develop reads afaic.

---

LC, I'm a bit unsure on. But the jump on me made little sense. And then the backing off didn't make me feel good either. Seemed like thinking I could be mislynch, and then doubting I could be so moving off before needing to expand. Should probably look up posts here too.

Maybe it's not in the form of direct questions, but would want you to address the points/queries regarding you.

[Marmot]

That said, I don't get why one kill was revealed and one was not. I can only assume it has something to do with one of the many rules spritoy has in play.

-this game is a clusterfuck

[Dyslexicon]

Janitoring all flips I find to be an extremely foreign concept, and I likely would not sign up for such a game personally. I'm familiar with a janitor role, but have only seen it as an X-shot ability, and quite a rare one. It makes me all

But this might be a kidnapping role, which may just make a player disappear for a day or something?

All in all:

[Marmot]

Responses in marmalade.

I have a question for you. Why do you call me Marmot?

What are your questions for me?

Someone called you Marmot or refered to you as such, and apparently I like it better than MM.

Mainly points in this post:

Spoiler: show

Thank you, JJJ, for the Tab trick!

@JJJ - What Fred said.

@Whoever brought it up - The reason for me thinking JJJ/Nut not teamed is that JJJ gave a very heavy town read on Nut early on. I would not expect a scum to do this to a rather low poster teammate.

---

I'm sure I had other things I wanted to comment on. Don't know when day ends, so going to throw out some cold reads:

Townish:
Nut, Straw, Fred

Slight town:
Silver, Quin. Golden, Jack

On the townier side of null:
Soneji, Scotty, Wilgy

Null:
Nacho

On the scummier side of null or sligh scum:
Sig, Dfray, JJJ

Scummish/suspects:
Marmot, INH, Speed, LC

---

Raisins:
Marmot: Ok, so nobody ever talks about Marmot/MM. Which I find suspicious in itself, but that's not his fault. Anyway, I don't like this progression:

That... is actually a pretty accurate description of how I like to play.

^In response to me talking about my playstyle.

That being said, your slip, it looked like an accident. You assert that it was not an accident, but a fakeslip. You then introduced some reads after the fact. Nacho made a good point that you didn't factor the 'fakeslip' into your reads. I think (without looking at your link to your other game) it was an accident.

^In the same post - how can he legitly think it was still a real slip? Also pointing to Nacho to support that I didn't factor in the fakeslip into my reads instead of going to my post. I factor everything into my reads, who's anyone else to say what I'm basing my reads on. I specifically based my Marmot vote on it in fact. Also, he doesn't need to look at the link to know what's in it as it has been discussed a lot. He's completely disregarding a lot of info, so this just reads like he's not interested in actually figuring out my alignment. Which is not a town mindset.

I'm not really interested in reading another game at the moment no. I'd rather let other players who have the time and effort do that.

My main qualm with you is your first post after the slip. It did not seem like a fake, it seemed like an oopsie.

Why do dizzy's posts after his slip make me feel so good? Should I reconsider?

This I also dislike. Also, "reconsider" from what? He wasn't voting me at this time.

My ability to participate this game is unfortunately limited to lengthy intervals of inactivity (by my standards) and extended catchups. If I happen to change mindsets in a single post, I don't really care. I'm posting what I think about a particular post I read, with no regard to what I've said before. It's my way of playing the game realtime.

---

INH, I honestly don't have a case on. Just seems to be on the sidelines a lot and I find that's how scum feels like a lot of the time. Should check his posts at some point.

---

Speed, I posted my suspicions of here:

@Speed, I want you to explain your read on me. You're tip-toeing around it. You comment a lot on logic, strategy and meta discussions, but you don't give very much in terms of reads. You've stated several times that I'm null-ish to you and that I'm nok exactly looking good and that it's understanable that players want to lynch me etc. But at the same time you're arguing against what these players are saying. So in your own words, what is your read on me and why?

I'm very suspicious of you.

I do think his tone is good, but he talks mostly about things around the game, and doesn't really go far to develop reads afaic.

---

LC, I'm a bit unsure on. But the jump on me made little sense. And then the backing off didn't make me feel good either. Seemed like thinking I could be mislynch, and then doubting I could be so moving off before needing to expand. Should probably look up posts here too.

Maybe it's not in the form of direct questions, but would want you to address the points/queries regarding you.

[Golden]

Responses in marmalade.

how can you be so glib about murder!



Hang on, marmalade is made of marmots, right?

[Marmot]

Janitoring all flips I find to be an extremely foreign concept, and I likely would not sign up for such a game personally. I'm familiar with a janitor role, but have only seen it as an X-shot ability, and quite a rare one. It makes me all

But this might be a kidnapping role, which may just make a player disappear for a day or something?

All in all:

I get what you're saying. Janitored nightkills! No info-dumping! No role-outing! How can the civilians even win?

It's done through other methods. We may be blind, but our sense of smell and hearing are significantly improved, if you get my drift.



I'm not saying we're better mafia players by any means, just we're different. We'd be as much out of place in your environment (as I feel here in this game) as you would in one of our "Syndicate-style" games. I've watched a couple Synicate players play shitty games in foreign environments. Each culture is different and difficult to adjust to imo.

Linki: I think marmalade is a fruit, in addition to a color.

[Marmot]

Actually, we're certainly not better. I've sucked at every other site I've played at aside from RYM, but that mafia community is defunct.

[Dyslexicon]

@Marmot - Do you still think it was a legit slip? In which case, you should be voting me I guess? That theory is pretty much totally out of the question and I would've expected you to gain info about that also without looking at the other game. It's also not a matter of reading an entire game, it's one post in that game.

The other thing, alrlight *shrug*
Do you have more reads in this game? I know you're busy, but it would be very helpful to know where your head is at.

[Marmot]

@Marmot - Do you still think it was a legit slip? In which case, you should be voting me I guess? That theory is pretty much totally out of the question and I would've expected you to gain info about that also without looking at the other game. It's also not a matter of reading an entire game, it's one post in that game.

The other thing, alrlight *shrug*
Do you have more reads in this game? I know you're busy, but it would be very helpful to know where your head is at.

I dislike DrWilgy because he was a relative inactive Day 1.

I have no read on Elohcin, because there's just no content to judge. I will add a meta caveat, she tends to get more invested in a game when she is mafia. The most invested I've ever seen her was in Series of Unfortunate Events, in which we were mafia teammates.

From the more active participants, I like Golden. I also like Fredwood. I like your posts except for that one post. But I'm going to choose to read you as civilian for now. Nutella I also like.

I don't have much of an impression on the other players.

[Marmot]

Add jackofhearts to the list of suspicions.

I don't like this post. I don't see how he can conclude that I "benefited" from suspecting Dizzy. He also has Elohcin's meta wrong (which I described above). I get that he hasn't played here long, but I can only recall one game recently from Elohcin, and it's the same one I described in a previous post, it was one of the most active games I've ever seen from her.

Additionally, there's the nightkill analysis. But that is very minor ping, dependent on his answer to my question.

[Fredwood]

Oh! I think it was Speed who mentioned liking the idea of janitoring roles? (Please correct me if it was someone else). This may be tinfoil, but I found it suspicious, because I totally hate it when janitoring happens. As town, I'm most bothered by not knowing the role of someone who's flipped (although now it's possible Sir Wilgy the Good is not dead after all?). Anyway, the approach of "this is a fun mechanic" is not exactly the reaction I expect from town being denied information. But, I'm me, so I don't know if this is just a me-thought.

As a mod, I like the janitor mechanic. My experience with it as a player only really effects the validity of claiming later in the game, I am unsure of how it will effect it in this game because claiming isn't a priority or would not even matter because it is original content so there really isn't a "theme". My guess is that it is difficult to analyze the player's opponents or proponents, so it essentially makes all the reads about that player useless, so I can see how that would be annoying. However I can see from a game mechanics standpoint why someone would say they like the mechanic especially in Mayhem as it is an easy way to give balance back to the Mafia in a game filled with power roles and makes the game more interesting.

All that to say, I don't distrust Speed because of it. Speed is actually still one of my stronger town reads.

Does the fact that as a mod I love giving my SK/neutral killers Inventor or Jack of all trade kills make me more or less town >.>

[nutella]

... Idk Q, posts like that make me less and less confident in you. That's a pretty scummy defense there. You're in danger of losing your green status

I figured. But you'll notice that I'm one of Jack's strongest town reads, so to defend myself that way as scum would be counter-productive.

Huh? I don't entirely follow. Idk though. There were a few of your recent posts that felt weird to me but overall I'm still leaning town on you

Rainbow forthcoming.

[nutella]

Golden - pure, honest, and true, classic town golden
Dyslexicon - solid town read
Silver Lantern - I was briefly a little put off by his spat with Sloon but strong citations of his meta and continued observation have me pretty solidly convinced that he's playing a town style
Sloonei - strong town feels.
speedchuck - I've liked his contributions, pretty solid civ read atm
Quin - still pretty much think town
JaggedJimmyJay - still pretty much think town
Soneji - where the heck is this guy? I keep forgetting he's playing. But I had a town read of him D1.
DFaraday - is he still playing? does he need to be replaced?
Fredwood - leaning town I guess
Scotty - I've generally had a civ read from him but was also interested in considering speedchuck's reasons for suspecting him, so subject to change
Strawhenge - keep forgetting about him. looks like he hasn't really been around on d2 except for one check-in, and I don't really remember how I felt about him d1 tbh. so pretty null for now.
Long Con - need to look into more, haven't been feeling quite as good about him as I did earlier but idk
Elohcin - I'm thinking probable baddie, as others have said she'd be a good vig target so not highest priority
insertnamehere - need to look into more but leaning scummy
Jackofhearts2005 - interested in looking into him, mostly based on JJJ's assessment + a couple other general pingy feels. think I'll ISO him and see how I feel.
Metalmarsh89 - actually a top suspect atm. I am not really seeing his civ meta anymore and have found him increasingly suspicious (a few specific pings + a general feeling/agreeing with other people's assessments)

[Sloonei]

Is magic bagging common here? (being like "Have info" or "have power role" and stuff)

I would say no, mostly that would be against the rules, since most of the games here have historically been 'no infodropping, no roleclaiming' games.

Really? I've never seen the like of that.
I mean, massclaims are always forbidden, yes. But I'm honestly quite surprised by this rule.

In witchhunt-like setups, claiming has always been discouraged by people that can chain kills if they match you to your role.
In closed setups like this, giving away who you are is dangerous because nobody has to believe you.

Anyway, weird. I'll have to reread the mafia rules should I stick around for more games after this.

Having played plenty of games with info-dumping early in my mafia career before coming here, I've come to enjoy the "No info-dumping" games a little bit more, I think. It puts a stronger emphasis on content-generating and case-building, and also forces some very strategic usage of roles and subtle hinting in the thread.
Any game of mafia is fun if played right though. Roleclaim games come with their own unique appeal too.

[Sloonei]

Does this exchange with Quin change your opinion on his affiliation in any way?

That depends on how much experience Quin has in infodump games of this scale (i.e. not just heists). Sloonei, what do you know about this regarding Quin's pre-Syndicate experience? Quin obviously you can speak for yourself as well.

He should be familiar with info-dump madness.

[Sloonei]

Actually, we're certainly not better. I've sucked at every other site I've played at aside from RYM, but that mafia community is defunct.

ur defunct

[Sloonei]

I believe I was asked to ISO INH, Scotty, and Mr Marmot. Apologies if I missed any other requests, but these three tasks should keep me well occupied and help me get caught up to speed.

I'll probably end up lagging behind the actual lynch today but I'll do my best to place an informed vote. Tomorrow is a totally free day for me.

[Quin]

Does this exchange with Quin change your opinion on his affiliation in any way?

That depends on how much experience Quin has in infodump games of this scale (i.e. not just heists). Sloonei, what do you know about this regarding Quin's pre-Syndicate experience? Quin obviously you can speak for yourself as well.

He should be familiar with info-dump madness.

eh?

[Golden]

Lc I see you lurking and posting in the thread. Get in here birthday boy. I want your reads.

I may be slightly drunk. I nearly called juliets a guy in the other thread.

[Scotty]

I'm behind again. I'm so sorry y'all. It's been a pain in the ass finding Wifi here in Canada. I spent 16 hours in transit with a canceled flight and 2 delays. Half my company isn't even in the same province right now. Lots of shit with weather so I'm all out of sorts.

I skimmed the past 10 pages to get caught up in my downtime with Wifi and saw a big ole case by speedchuck.

I got nothing to respond to in that except damn man! You remind me a lot of me when I have a shit ton of free time! I really dig the determination, albeit it's tunneling, and I'm not bad. I read you as town, but would also suggest ISOing MM a bit and exit the tunnel. These are not the droids you are looking for.

I read chuck as civ.

Of Golden and JJJ, I read Golden as solid green-yellow Surge soft drink and JJJ as piss yellow. I feel like JJJ hasn't been pressing his reads on people- only commenting on it. I'm feeling only slightly better abou Silver after his poking at my [admittedly weak] comments.

I still think Elo is bad and her entrance recently has done nothing to change that

[Golden]

You too scotty. You and lc. Reads! What about inh and other people?

[Scotty]

You too scotty. You and lc. Reads! What about inh and other people?

LC? I can't even remember honestly. I literally can't remember him from this game and I'm having trouble concentrating. Where you're drunk on exhaust fumes or whatever you aussies do to get inebriated over there, I'm running on 3 hours of sleep.

INH? Increasingly shady. Don't like.

Jack I felt actually seemed pretty townlike some...3 pages ago? I think? Dunno , I read the thread in spurts throughout the day.

Umm MM? Null. Nutella seems to think he's off his civ meta. I dnnoo I've noticed he hasn't been as WIFOMy as usual.

Who else? Dys? What has Dys done recently besides fling poo?

[Golden]

Where is lc? He was here.

Hey, you went all epi on me, but I was the only kiwi at the twble lol all my wife's family are here it's so Aussie I need a Canadian or two. Scotty you count as a Canadian today you're there.

What are you acting?

[Golden]

Lc is gone. Damn. Who else is here?

[Quin]

Lc is gone. Damn. Who else is here?

I'm cooking, but hello. Talk to me, fellow bogan.

[Scotty]

Where is lc? He was here.

Hey, you went all epi on me, but I was the only kiwi at the twble lol all my wife's family are here it's so Aussie I need a Canadian or two. Scotty you count as a Canadian today you're there.

What are you acting?

Yeah man I've been acting for years.

Also I get paid to act

[Scotty]

Oh! And Sloonei! I love Sloonei's entrance and concurrent keeping up with the thread. Green town points from me

[Quin]

I want Sloonei to say more about how I should be familiar with info-dumping setups.

[Scotty]

I want Sloonei to say more about how I should be familiar with info-dumping setups.

Why not dump some info, Quin? Got some junk in your trunk?

[Golden]

Where is lc? He was here.

Hey, you went all epi on me, but I was the only kiwi at the twble lol all my wife's family are here it's so Aussie I need a Canadian or two. Scotty you count as a Canadian today you're there.

What are you acting?

Yeah man I've been acting for years.

Also I get paid to act

No I mean what

[Golden]

Lc is gone. Damn. Who else is here?

I'm cooking, but hello. Talk to me, fellow bogan.

Hi quin. You haven't looked as town today. Are you keeping up?

[Golden]

I want Sloonei to say more about how I should be familiar with info-dumping setups.

Are you?

[Quin]

I want Sloonei to say more about how I should be familiar with info-dumping setups.

Are you?

No.

[Quin]

Lc is gone. Damn. Who else is here?

I'm cooking, but hello. Talk to me, fellow bogan.

Hi quin. You haven't looked as town today. Are you keeping up?

After spending 5 hours in this thread this morning, yeah, I'd say I'm pretty caught up.

What's your beef?

[Golden]

Lc is gone. Damn. Who else is here?

I'm cooking, but hello. Talk to me, fellow bogan.

Hi quin. You haven't looked as town today. Are you keeping up?

After spending 5 hours in this thread this morning, yeah, I'd say I'm pretty caught up.

What's your beef?

No beef I still think you are town just yesterday you were top read today I don't remember you.

[Quin]

Lc is gone. Damn. Who else is here?

I'm cooking, but hello. Talk to me, fellow bogan.

Hi quin. You haven't looked as town today. Are you keeping up?

After spending 5 hours in this thread this morning, yeah, I'd say I'm pretty caught up.

What's your beef?

No beef I still think you are town just yesterday you were top read today I don't remember you.

Hi, I'm Quin.

[Golden]

Lc is gone. Damn. Who else is here?

I'm cooking, but hello. Talk to me, fellow bogan.

Hi quin. You haven't looked as town today. Are you keeping up?

After spending 5 hours in this thread this morning, yeah, I'd say I'm pretty caught up.

What's your beef?

No beef I still think you are town just yesterday you were top read today I don't remember you.

Hi, I'm Quin.

Quin is friend not food.

[nutella]

Drfunk golden is funny

Nice to have some activity at this hour for once

[Marmot]

Did somebody say activity?

[Marmot]

I want Sloonei to say more about how I should be familiar with info-dumping setups.

I think he wants you to info-dump.

[Quin]

Did somebody say activity?

No, go home.

[Marmot]

Did somebody say activity?

No, go home.

I... am at home.

What next Commander Quin?

[Quin]

Did somebody say activity?

No, go home.

I... am at home.

What next Commander Quin?

Drink, I guess.

[Quin]

I want Sloonei to say more about how I should be familiar with info-dumping setups.

I think he wants you to info-dump.

I cannot.

[Sloonei]

I want Sloonei to say more about how I should be familiar with info-dumping setups.

You've played in games and in a community which encourages info dumping before, even if it was a while ago.

Do you deny this?

[Sloonei]

Does this exchange with Quin change your opinion on his affiliation in any way?

That depends on how much experience Quin has in infodump games of this scale (i.e. not just heists). Sloonei, what do you know about this regarding Quin's pre-Syndicate experience? Quin obviously you can speak for yourself as well.

I think long ago we never set rules against info-dumping in the games we hosted/played, but recently (the past one or two years) it's been a rule.

I'm not sure why my experience factors into it though, you'll need to explain that to me.

You said the same thing yourself right here. I don't get why my answer is surprising.

[Quin]

I want Sloonei to say more about how I should be familiar with info-dumping setups.

You've played in games and in a community which encourages info dumping before, even if it was a while ago.

Do you deny this?

No. But said games were more than 2 years ago. Familiarity goes out the window at that point.

linki: I was interested in what your definition of 'familiar' was. What you said gave the impression that you disagreed with that post, so it caught my attention.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Catch up Other Notes Post

1. So here's my reaction to JJJ's NK analysis:



In my experience, NK analysis is extremely hard to do and involves a lot of assumptions that if you're town you have no way of knowing. How the mafia team dynamic is and what they base their decision on and who ultimately makes that decision is highly complex and circumstantial and involves so much unknown information that it's basically pointless to speculate about it. I don't put much weight into this analysis and not sure what it's supposed to do or help us with. Furthermore, this is a closed game, making it even more speculative.

What I do think is true is that JJJ would not prefer to kill Nacho himself. What this tells me is that JJJ probably did not (intentionally) kill Nacho. It's possible JJJ is particularly devilish as scum (which I won't fault anyone for) and make this argument while having murdered Nacho with cold blood, but I find that type of argument unlikely, because it's unnecessary.

@JJJ, Why did you find it necessary to bring this up at all though, the fact that you were unlikely to kill Nacho?


2. I agree with Silver that INH's vote at EOD looks bad. I don't get much of a read on INH at all, and I find him to be particularly on the side of almost all discussion. Haven't seen him give much in terms of reads or opinions on other players that I can remember. Who here is familiar with him? Is this normal?

3. @JOH, You mentioned you had a theory of me and Straw being teamed on D1. Can you explain this more? I find it very curious given our interaction even before my fakeslip, as he seemed to get upset with me for my crude way of expressing suspicion towards him. I'm me, so I have a different perspective, but I find it odd that you would view our interaction as possible distancing. You also mentioned D1, if iirc, that you had me/Scotty as not teamed (?) Can you expand on this?

4. I'm intrigued by Golden's unsure read on Straw. I should maybe revisit my own read on him, since I did have an initial bad gut feeling. I'm also intrigued by whoever gave account for JOH being a good scum player and will take this into consideration.

5. Analysing the Sig wagon is all fine and dandy. However, I find it just as interesting to analyse the votes that fell outside of this or the ones that didn't vote at all. I don't find that any D1 mislynch is super likely to have a ton of scum in it, rather I think scum are more afraid of getting blood on their hands early in the game while town is very capable of mislynching on their own. This point can be WIFOMed, but I don't think where a particular vote ended is as important as why.

---

At this point I'm wanting to use Occam's Razor on JJJ and just say it's more likely that he's town. Even if I keep seeing things that makes me hm a bit, I can't deny that his actions seems natural and pro-town and just unlikely to be scum. I also would not be upset to lose to a scum!JJJ (maybe a dumb argument, but that's just how I feel right now). I ...don't know. Ironically the whole feeling I have reminds me so much of how I was lulled in by Moving in my first game after initially thinking he was scum. But I'm going to say that ignorance is bliss and Occam has his uses.

Sometimes I feel that Golden acts like I'm confirmed town.

I remember seeing something EOD 1 that made me more suspicious of Speed once Sig flipped town. Will look again.

Suspicions I guess on Marmot/Eloh/Speed, but maybe also LC/INH/Soneji.

---

I find it quite hard to get reads in this game, and this is just me ranting for my own sanity. I usually rely quite heavily upon meta. And it annoys me that I didn't stick to my gut feel on Sig, cause that was actually based on whatever little meta I had, but I completely forgot about it. Speaking of, I had the opposite gut on LC, in that he was town last game and this game he feels a bit different to me.

Silver stikes me as more town. The one thing that throws me off is that he will have this stubborn and aggressive discussion with someone (in which I often disagree with his logic, even if I can see where he is coming from), and then suddenly he will switch gears and just go "Alright, that makes sense now. I can see what you are saying". And it's a completely different energy. He did it with me D1 and he did it with Sloonei this day. Is this normal for Silver?
@Fred @JOH?

I feel Sloonei comes across as more town than not.

Re:You and Straw potentially w/w as of day 1 and you and Scotty not w/w as of day 1.

If you had an early interaction that set you apart from Straw, it didn't stick out to me. What did stick out to me was after you posted your link, a couple players stayed on the idea that you had still slipped. (I was one but I was time traveling and by the time I caught up to my "I still think Dizzy slipped" post, I disagreed with it.) Here's a rough script of it.

Lotsa people: Grumble grumble I null read Dizzy, now.
Scotty: Well I still think Dizzy slipped.
JJJ: Did you read the link?
Scotty: No. *reads* Yeah, that's pretty convincing.
Straw: I still think Dizzy slipped
JJJ: Did you read the link?
Straw: Yes I did and I still think Dizzy slipped. Blah blah blah. Words. At least a page of maintaining this position alone.


So let's say you're scum. I don't think you are but say you were.

What does Scotty gain from this little interaction? Nothing. Plus, it just feels genuine.

Straw on the other hand makes himself look like he's after you, even though your lynch train isn't going anywhere. Distancing, if you will.

Does that answer your question?


RE: I'm awesome as scum

My scum best plays are catching opposing scum as scum and arguing better than the other scummer to get a key lynch when it was needed. So...actually, town skill, not scum skill. Also, creative use of night powers. I'm not THAT good as looking like a townie when I'm mafia. "I fucking knew Jack was scum!" is a common thing for people to say when I win as scum. JJJ and Sloonei have both completely trashed me in mafia games when we were on opposing sides. Next to Silver, I'm like mafia Jesus, though.


Re: Silver yells and then turns it around real quick.

Fairly normal. We fight when we're both town and he usually comes around...or vig kills me. This happened a bit faster than normal but a) culture clash and b) we're less pressed for time, here, allowing for cooler heads.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Silver stikes me as more town. The one thing that throws me off is that he will have this stubborn and aggressive discussion with someone (in which I often disagree with his logic, even if I can see where he is coming from), and then suddenly he will switch gears and just go "Alright, that makes sense now. I can see what you are saying". And it's a completely different energy. He did it with me D1 and he did it with Sloonei this day. Is this normal for Silver?

I know you're not asking me, but I would say, no, it's not usual for me. I usually I get blinders on and just keep on arguing to my detriment. I almost did it with Soneji D1, who btw, has been inconspicuously missing today.

I am trying to elevate my game fwiw, and part of that is being more reasonable than I tend to be on my homesite. Besides, everyone here is pretty advanced so they're pretty decent at making arguments in their defense.

But to really answer your question, I stopped arguing because the other person's posts and points became logical to me in the points they were making. By contrast I didn't really get that vibe from INH's response to my ISO. Just felt like more fluff to try to counter my calling out his fluff. :/

Re: INH

This is exactly what I was trying to get at. His response to you ISO was just more fluff.