Phenon Mafia: ENDGAME - Snuffed

[Quin]

Is this what it feels like to post too much? I have more posts than JaggedJimmyJay.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Dizzy and marmot, I mean.

I want you to tell me in three sentences or less why Dizzy is mafia-aligned.

[Sloonei]

Sloonei, If we understand each other now, I'd rather break from this for a bit. We've taken three pages almost just between the two of us.

Indeed. And you'll be happy to know that you were my top suspect all throughout the night, but after this whole episode you've climbed up closer to the green side of my rainbow. I feel like you believe your argument against me, and that is fair. I just hope that you'll re-examine my posts from the mindset that I am town and that my strategy always involves keeping a very open mind.

I'd also still like for you to answer to the obvious questions that come with supporting a case that was directly opposed to the lynch of a scum player in such a contested lynch as yesterday. Let's not forget that you were the one on the wrong side yesterday.

[Quin]

I don't know what Occam's Razor is.

"I have an answer right in front of me which makes sense. I also have an answer in front of me which makes considerably less sense, but under certain conditions it sure would be brilliant."

Occam's Razor is the former (generally it's sensible to favor the simpler explanation). Tinfoil is the latter.

Looks like we've got our opinions of which makes more sense switched up. I see a bus before all else.

[Jackofhearts2005]

My face when people still try to lynch Dizzy, who I think would not be near the conversation minus SlipGate:

My face when Sloonei doesn't give a shit about his prior stances and places a vote:

My face when Sloonei's vote helps kill a bad guy: /// ///

My face when Quin goes straight to Tinfoil Town to the point of self-parody:

My face when Sloonei had the necessary content in his post history to justify a Dizzy vote but instead voted for a confirmed baddie and people act like that's scummy:

My face when Sloonei is a town read:

My face when Jack for some reason cares about which scum teammate nutella assigns to him:

My face when posts like this are in my ISO:

Do people around here stop caring about progression just because a mafia player got lynched? Is bussing a thing that never happens?

If I read Quin as town and Sloonei as null as of a few pages before the end of yesterday and then Sloonei does a thing that makes me suspect him.

I know I'm town. If you pair me with someone I think is town as w/w suspects, either I or said townie can convince you and I don't have to worry about getting mislynched.

If you pair me with someone I think may be scum as w/w suspects, every scummy thing and an eventual mafia flip from that other guy just increases my chance of getting mislynched.

Why was I suspicious prior to the marmot vote?

Sorsha stuff. You were a pretty null read prior to today. Lotsa questions but nothing pro or con in my book.

I suspected you a bit based on your "MM is town" post when you voted MM. Suspected you more when you answered my question by accusing me of being scum.

Then or now, I'd rather be paired with Quin cause I think he has a greater chance of being town.

[Sloonei]

Marmot interactive reads are critical today. We should all do our homework there.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I note that my confidence increases when I don't actually play very much, and just ram myself into the dialogue sporadically. Maybe I'll be lazy more often.

[Quin]

Sloonei, If we understand each other now, I'd rather break from this for a bit. We've taken three pages almost just between the two of us.

Indeed. And you'll be happy to know that you were my top suspect all throughout the night, but after this whole episode you've climbed up closer to the green side of my rainbow. I feel like you believe your argument against me, and that is fair. I just hope that you'll re-examine my posts from the mindset that I am town and that my strategy always involves keeping a very open mind.

I'd also still like for you to answer to the obvious questions that come with supporting a case that was directly opposed to the lynch of a scum player in such a contested lynch as yesterday. Let's not forget that you were the one on the wrong side yesterday.

Saying I was on the wrong side of it isn't a fair statement, because Dys's alignment is still up in the air. I still believe in it, but as I just said, I need to read into it.

Did you find my Dizzy suspicion disingenuous?

[Sloonei]

Sloonei, If we understand each other now, I'd rather break from this for a bit. We've taken three pages almost just between the two of us.

Indeed. And you'll be happy to know that you were my top suspect all throughout the night, but after this whole episode you've climbed up closer to the green side of my rainbow. I feel like you believe your argument against me, and that is fair. I just hope that you'll re-examine my posts from the mindset that I am town and that my strategy always involves keeping a very open mind.

I'd also still like for you to answer to the obvious questions that come with supporting a case that was directly opposed to the lynch of a scum player in such a contested lynch as yesterday. Let's not forget that you were the one on the wrong side yesterday.

Saying I was on the wrong side of it isn't a fair statement, because Dys's alignment is still up in the air. I still believe in it, but as I just said, I need to read into it.

Did you find my Dizzy suspicion disingenuous?

I might. You pushed it very hard yesterday and, in light of metalmarsh's flip, I have to be skeptical.

I suppose you're right that it's unfair to say you were on the "wrong side" when you don't actually know Dizzy's alignment, but I'm leaning town and we do know the marmot's alignment, so I feel like throwing the word "wrong" around.

[Quin]

Sloonei, If we understand each other now, I'd rather break from this for a bit. We've taken three pages almost just between the two of us.

Indeed. And you'll be happy to know that you were my top suspect all throughout the night, but after this whole episode you've climbed up closer to the green side of my rainbow. I feel like you believe your argument against me, and that is fair. I just hope that you'll re-examine my posts from the mindset that I am town and that my strategy always involves keeping a very open mind.

I'd also still like for you to answer to the obvious questions that come with supporting a case that was directly opposed to the lynch of a scum player in such a contested lynch as yesterday. Let's not forget that you were the one on the wrong side yesterday.

It's ironic, but this is essentially the core of my argument against you. If you're town, it looks like we just have a different opinion on what that means.

We can talk about it later though. I'm banning you from talking to me about this.

[Sloonei]

Sloonei, If we understand each other now, I'd rather break from this for a bit. We've taken three pages almost just between the two of us.

Indeed. And you'll be happy to know that you were my top suspect all throughout the night, but after this whole episode you've climbed up closer to the green side of my rainbow. I feel like you believe your argument against me, and that is fair. I just hope that you'll re-examine my posts from the mindset that I am town and that my strategy always involves keeping a very open mind.

I'd also still like for you to answer to the obvious questions that come with supporting a case that was directly opposed to the lynch of a scum player in such a contested lynch as yesterday. Let's not forget that you were the one on the wrong side yesterday.

It's ironic, but this is essentially the core of my argument against you. If you're town, it looks like we just have a different opinion on what that means.

We can talk about it later though. I'm banning you from talking to me about this.

I insist we talk about it the instant this ban is lifted.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Marmot interactive reads are critical today. We should all do our homework there.

Yeah, do it! I sure as hell won't.

I did a quick skim of Marmot's post while I could in the night phase and thought Long Con was a standout as questionable (Marmot mentioned him in a couple off-hand ways that didn't lead anywhere or were chummy), and there was at least one waffle on jack that caught my eye. I am about to leave so I can't be bothered to find them. I'd like to see someone else do the work anyway.

Someone should check those out and report back. And check out the rest too. Do all the checking you can muster.

I'll be in Toledo through Monday night. That's Toledo, Ohio. I went to Toledo, Spain last year. I bet Toledo, Spain was a much better Toledo.

[Quin]

Unvote

[Sloonei]

Why was I suspicious prior to the marmot vote?

Sorsha stuff. You were a pretty null read prior to today. Lotsa questions but nothing pro or con in my book.

I suspected you a bit based on your "MM is town" post when you voted MM. Suspected you more when you answered my question by accusing me of being scum.

Then or now, I'd rather be paired with Quin cause I think he has a greater chance of being town.

I thought metalmarsh was town. Then I didn't.

Who else do you suspect and why?

[Sloonei]

Marmot interactive reads are critical today. We should all do our homework there.

Yeah, do it! I sure as hell won't.

I did a quick skim of Marmot's post while I could in the night phase and thought Long Con was a standout as questionable (Marmot mentioned him in a couple off-hand ways that didn't lead anywhere or were chummy), and there was at least one waffle on jack that caught my eye. I am about to leave so I can't be bothered to find them. I'd like to see someone else do the work anyway.

Someone should check those out and report back. And check out the rest too. Do all the checking you can muster.

I'll be in Toledo through Monday night. That's Toledo, Ohio. I went to Toledo, Spain last year. I bet Toledo, Spain was a much better Toledo.

I plan to do some of this work tomorrow evening, stay tuned. Or don't, Toledo sounds important.

[Quin]

A belated greetings to juliets, please be town.

[Sloonei]

@Marmot - Do you still think it was a legit slip? In which case, you should be voting me I guess? That theory is pretty much totally out of the question and I would've expected you to gain info about that also without looking at the other game. It's also not a matter of reading an entire game, it's one post in that game.

The other thing, alrlight *shrug*
Do you have more reads in this game? I know you're busy, but it would be very helpful to know where your head is at.

I dislike DrWilgy because he was a relative inactive Day 1.

I have no read on Elohcin, because there's just no content to judge. I will add a meta caveat, she tends to get more invested in a game when she is mafia. The most invested I've ever seen her was in Series of Unfortunate Events, in which we were mafia teammates.

From the more active participants, I like Golden. I also like Fredwood. I like your posts except for that one post. But I'm going to choose to read you as civilian for now. Nutella I also like.

I don't have much of an impression on the other players.

Here's a post where he says some things about a lot of different people. Non-committal on Elohcin. That's a chin-scratcher. Then he likes Golden, Fredwood, Dyslexicon, and nutella. I feel very confident that nutella is town based on yesterday (she was the #1 factor that pushed me to vote for metalmarsh, for the record). I also feel good about Dyslexicon due to yesterday. I have no substantial read on Fredwood, and a vague creeping suspicion of Golden that hasn't gone away for a second since I got here.
Anyone have thoughts on Golden or Fredwood, or that Eloh waffle right there?

[Sloonei]

A belated greetings to juliets, please be town.

I had already forgotten that juliets is here now. This is exciting news.

And I don't usually give "RIP" posts, but RIP Silver Lantern. I hope to play many more games with you in the future.

[Quin]

@Marmot - Do you still think it was a legit slip? In which case, you should be voting me I guess? That theory is pretty much totally out of the question and I would've expected you to gain info about that also without looking at the other game. It's also not a matter of reading an entire game, it's one post in that game.

The other thing, alrlight *shrug*
Do you have more reads in this game? I know you're busy, but it would be very helpful to know where your head is at.

I dislike DrWilgy because he was a relative inactive Day 1.

I have no read on Elohcin, because there's just no content to judge. I will add a meta caveat, she tends to get more invested in a game when she is mafia. The most invested I've ever seen her was in Series of Unfortunate Events, in which we were mafia teammates.

From the more active participants, I like Golden. I also like Fredwood. I like your posts except for that one post. But I'm going to choose to read you as civilian for now. Nutella I also like.

I don't have much of an impression on the other players.

Here's a post where he says some things about a lot of different people. Non-committal on Elohcin. That's a chin-scratcher. Then he likes Golden, Fredwood, Dyslexicon, and nutella. I feel very confident that nutella is town based on yesterday (she was the #1 factor that pushed me to vote for metalmarsh, for the record). I also feel good about Dyslexicon due to yesterday. I have no substantial read on Fredwood, and a vague creeping suspicion of Golden that hasn't gone away for a second since I got here.
Anyone have thoughts on Golden or Fredwood, or that Eloh waffle right there?

Ding dong.

[Sloonei]

Sorry Sloonei, that question was directed towards nutella. I didn't catch that portion of her post until you highlighted it.

Linki: I haven't been around the last 5 hours, so I missed that.

Unvote

Vote Lynch Dizzy

I don't actually want to lynch Sloonei.

YEAH WELL... uh

dude wtf

wtf indeed.

[Sloonei]

@Marmot - Do you still think it was a legit slip? In which case, you should be voting me I guess? That theory is pretty much totally out of the question and I would've expected you to gain info about that also without looking at the other game. It's also not a matter of reading an entire game, it's one post in that game.

The other thing, alrlight *shrug*
Do you have more reads in this game? I know you're busy, but it would be very helpful to know where your head is at.

I dislike DrWilgy because he was a relative inactive Day 1.

I have no read on Elohcin, because there's just no content to judge. I will add a meta caveat, she tends to get more invested in a game when she is mafia. The most invested I've ever seen her was in Series of Unfortunate Events, in which we were mafia teammates.

From the more active participants, I like Golden. I also like Fredwood. I like your posts except for that one post. But I'm going to choose to read you as civilian for now. Nutella I also like.

I don't have much of an impression on the other players.

Here's a post where he says some things about a lot of different people. Non-committal on Elohcin. That's a chin-scratcher. Then he likes Golden, Fredwood, Dyslexicon, and nutella. I feel very confident that nutella is town based on yesterday (she was the #1 factor that pushed me to vote for metalmarsh, for the record). I also feel good about Dyslexicon due to yesterday. I have no substantial read on Fredwood, and a vague creeping suspicion of Golden that hasn't gone away for a second since I got here.
Anyone have thoughts on Golden or Fredwood, or that Eloh waffle right there?

Ding dong.

is that the believable theory?

[Quin]

@Marmot - Do you still think it was a legit slip? In which case, you should be voting me I guess? That theory is pretty much totally out of the question and I would've expected you to gain info about that also without looking at the other game. It's also not a matter of reading an entire game, it's one post in that game.

The other thing, alrlight *shrug*
Do you have more reads in this game? I know you're busy, but it would be very helpful to know where your head is at.

I dislike DrWilgy because he was a relative inactive Day 1.

I have no read on Elohcin, because there's just no content to judge. I will add a meta caveat, she tends to get more invested in a game when she is mafia. The most invested I've ever seen her was in Series of Unfortunate Events, in which we were mafia teammates.

From the more active participants, I like Golden. I also like Fredwood. I like your posts except for that one post. But I'm going to choose to read you as civilian for now. Nutella I also like.

I don't have much of an impression on the other players.

Here's a post where he says some things about a lot of different people. Non-committal on Elohcin. That's a chin-scratcher. Then he likes Golden, Fredwood, Dyslexicon, and nutella. I feel very confident that nutella is town based on yesterday (she was the #1 factor that pushed me to vote for metalmarsh, for the record). I also feel good about Dyslexicon due to yesterday. I have no substantial read on Fredwood, and a vague creeping suspicion of Golden that hasn't gone away for a second since I got here.
Anyone have thoughts on Golden or Fredwood, or that Eloh waffle right there?

Ding dong.

is that the believable theory?

You're about halfway there.

[Sloonei]

@Marmot - Do you still think it was a legit slip? In which case, you should be voting me I guess? That theory is pretty much totally out of the question and I would've expected you to gain info about that also without looking at the other game. It's also not a matter of reading an entire game, it's one post in that game.

The other thing, alrlight *shrug*
Do you have more reads in this game? I know you're busy, but it would be very helpful to know where your head is at.

I dislike DrWilgy because he was a relative inactive Day 1.

I have no read on Elohcin, because there's just no content to judge. I will add a meta caveat, she tends to get more invested in a game when she is mafia. The most invested I've ever seen her was in Series of Unfortunate Events, in which we were mafia teammates.

From the more active participants, I like Golden. I also like Fredwood. I like your posts except for that one post. But I'm going to choose to read you as civilian for now. Nutella I also like.

I don't have much of an impression on the other players.

Here's a post where he says some things about a lot of different people. Non-committal on Elohcin. That's a chin-scratcher. Then he likes Golden, Fredwood, Dyslexicon, and nutella. I feel very confident that nutella is town based on yesterday (she was the #1 factor that pushed me to vote for metalmarsh, for the record). I also feel good about Dyslexicon due to yesterday. I have no substantial read on Fredwood, and a vague creeping suspicion of Golden that hasn't gone away for a second since I got here.
Anyone have thoughts on Golden or Fredwood, or that Eloh waffle right there?

Ding dong.

is that the believable theory?

You're about halfway there.

Since the one thing we've not discussed yet is the actual reason I decided to vote for metalmarsh: a big part of it, like I said, was Nutella. She seemed very committed to her case against metalmarsh and her posts just oozed authenticity. She was not trying to sell the case, she was just telling us who her suspect was. It felt good to me. Combined with that, metalmarsh himself was just sitting on his hands while the rest of us were scrambling around. He did nothing to help build up the town read I had been developing on him. And then Scotty wasn't going to gain any traction, and I had decided I did not want to vote for Dyslexicon after much consideration. So I was left with metalmarsh, and nutella's conviction was enough to put me over.

[Sloonei]

vote Jackofhearts for the time being. I need to go do something else. I'll probably continue popping in and out for a couple hours, but I won't be fully here.

[Jackofhearts2005]

What about if we just go ahead and lynch Dys, then you can figure out me and Marmot's alignment?

What is I think you're all three town ATM

I don't understand.

Your last rainbow says otherwise.

Some things have changes since my last rainbow.

If you two are scum (yes you are lumped together), you have GIGANTIC BALLS to be pulling all of this. TBH, I almost think I'm wrong about Dizzy now. Almost. Not quite.

I can hardly keep up with the posts right now.

Scotty is my most confident read too.
SL, I believe you now because of the reveal that you have more vigs. Falsifiable and unbalanced as scum. Good for my read, bad for your survivability. Protectives take note. Wish you hadn't said that.

God, I hate this post.

Speed: Silver, please tell me all your powers and Wigly's too.
Silver: No
JoH: You's scummy for asking, Speed
Speed: No, I need to know cause what if Silver is scum even though I think he's town.
Silver: Here's more about my role.
Speed: Oh, golly. Wish you hadn't said that.


Just when I was starting to think I was tunneling.

Probably more juicy stuff from EOD yesterday but I couldn't let this go.

Probably more juicy stuff related to Silver, too. His death makes sense. First mafia kill that does. Possibly, scum was afraid he was gonna shoot them soon. Worth looking into.

[Jackofhearts2005]

vote Jackofhearts for the time being. I need to go do something else. I'll probably continue popping in and out for a couple hours, but I won't be fully here.

*waves hand dismissively*

[Sloonei]

vote Jackofhearts for the time being. I need to go do something else. I'll probably continue popping in and out for a couple hours, but I won't be fully here.

*waves hand dismissively*

What were you doing at the end of the day yesterday? You voted for Scotty and then just kinda stuck around the thread not doing much.

[insertnamehere]

My face when people still try to lynch Dizzy, who I think would not be near the conversation minus SlipGate:

3J, what is your opinion on my Dizzy case where I didn't include content about the Sliperoo?

Dizzy and marmot, I mean.

I want you to tell me in three sentences or less why Dizzy is mafia-aligned.

What do you think is the single most compelling point against Dyslexicon?

His "slip" gambit failed to produce anything of real value, making it a pointless anti-civilian bit of frippery.

2nd most compelling point: His aggressive pursuit of people with neutral demeanors.

3rd most compelling point: His inconsistent reads on people.

4th most compelling point: His buddying up with percieved civ "power-players" like Golden.

[Quin]

Something to throw out there is that Nacho might not have been the intended kill given marmots role flip.

I recall Golden mentioning his actual Night 1 target wasn't who he had initially targeted. Was that person Nacho?

[Sloonei]

bumping this so INH can share his thoughts on it.

insertnamehere provided a really interesting point as evidence against Dyslexicon at the end of the day. But I took interest in it not as evidence against Dyslexicon at all. Where INH sees Dyslexicon buddying with Golden, I see grounds for suspicion of Golden:

Sometimes I feel that Golden acts like I'm confirmed town.

Not sure exactly what you're seeing or how you mean this, but I tend to act like everyone is town. Even when I suspect someone on one hand, I don't want to ignore their perspective on things on the other, in case I'm wrong. I think I'm much better at figuring out who is town than who is bad, so this also aids my hunting approach.

It's not for how you interact with me (actually thinking about it, I don't think we've interacted much? Hi.), but more so in your analysis of votes and wagons and how people are treating me, it seems like you assume that I'm town. Both with the reactions to my fakeslip and in regards to the wagon on me. I don't know what this means, it's just a feeling I had and I wrote it out.

If it's accurate that Golden is "assuming" Dyslexicon to be town, it could be because Golden knows Dyslexicon is town and so is not treating them with the same skepticism as everybody else. Scum Golden does not wish to push a fake case against town Dyslexicon and so is content with his town read and is not jumping on the things that all the paranoid townies are jumping on.
This is something I'd need Dyslexicon to comment on before I can be sure it's a legitimate cause for suspicion. Do you see this as a possibility, Dyslexicon?

[Sloonei]

Something to throw out there is that Nacho might not have been the intended kill given marmots role flip.

I recall Golden mentioning his actual Night 1 target wasn't who he had initially targeted. Was that person Nacho?

This would require the mafia to redirect their own kill.

[insertnamehere]

bumping this so INH can share his thoughts on it.

insertnamehere provided a really interesting point as evidence against Dyslexicon at the end of the day. But I took interest in it not as evidence against Dyslexicon at all. Where INH sees Dyslexicon buddying with Golden, I see grounds for suspicion of Golden:

Sometimes I feel that Golden acts like I'm confirmed town.

Not sure exactly what you're seeing or how you mean this, but I tend to act like everyone is town. Even when I suspect someone on one hand, I don't want to ignore their perspective on things on the other, in case I'm wrong. I think I'm much better at figuring out who is town than who is bad, so this also aids my hunting approach.

It's not for how you interact with me (actually thinking about it, I don't think we've interacted much? Hi.), but more so in your analysis of votes and wagons and how people are treating me, it seems like you assume that I'm town. Both with the reactions to my fakeslip and in regards to the wagon on me. I don't know what this means, it's just a feeling I had and I wrote it out.

If it's accurate that Golden is "assuming" Dyslexicon to be town, it could be because Golden knows Dyslexicon is town and so is not treating them with the same skepticism as everybody else. Scum Golden does not wish to push a fake case against town Dyslexicon and so is content with his town read and is not jumping on the things that all the paranoid townies are jumping on.
This is something I'd need Dyslexicon to comment on before I can be sure it's a legitimate cause for suspicion. Do you see this as a possibility, Dyslexicon?

I acknowledge it as a possibility, but it doesn't really change my read on either Golden or Dys.

[Quin]

Something to throw out there is that Nacho might not have been the intended kill given marmots role flip.

I recall Golden mentioning his actual Night 1 target wasn't who he had initially targeted. Was that person Nacho?

This would require the mafia to redirect their own kill.

I figured I was missing something.

[Jackofhearts2005]

vote Jackofhearts for the time being. I need to go do something else. I'll probably continue popping in and out for a couple hours, but I won't be fully here.

*waves hand dismissively*

What were you doing at the end of the day yesterday? You voted for Scotty and then just kinda stuck around the thread not doing much.

Exactly 15 min before thread lock, after ~4 straight linki refreshes...

JoH: I read Scotty scum, Diz town and I can't read Marmot or Eloh for crap. If anyone has a good argument, give it now.

Then a few people (you included) switch without providing reasoning at all and the thread is locked.

What was I supposed to do? Nothing happened that could have changed my opinion and there was no time for extra analysis.

Getting annoyed with your framing.

[Sloonei]

vote Jackofhearts for the time being. I need to go do something else. I'll probably continue popping in and out for a couple hours, but I won't be fully here.

*waves hand dismissively*

What were you doing at the end of the day yesterday? You voted for Scotty and then just kinda stuck around the thread not doing much.

Exactly 15 min before thread lock, after ~4 straight linki refreshes...

JoH: I read Scotty scum, Diz town and I can't read Marmot or Eloh for crap. If anyone has a good argument, give it now.

Then a few people (you included) switch without providing reasoning at all and the thread is locked.

What was I supposed to do? Nothing happened that could have changed my opinion and there was no time for extra analysis.

Getting annoyed with your framing.

You could have weighed in more. But I just went back and looked. Your Scotty vote came much closer to the deadline than I remembered it (probably because I chucked like 50 posts into the thread in those 15 minutes. I was remembering it as if you had cast your vote a half hour or so before the day ended, and then say in silence as the rest of us tried to figure stuff out.

You still are someone who stands out for the simple fact that you are not on the metalmarsh bandwagon. That in itself is not suspicious, but it certainly warrants some attention, wouldn't you say?

And you've also come out swinging against one of the people responsible for lynching the dead scum player yesterday. Do you think we should all just overlook this reality?

[insertnamehere]

vote Jackofhearts for the time being. I need to go do something else. I'll probably continue popping in and out for a couple hours, but I won't be fully here.

*waves hand dismissively*

What were you doing at the end of the day yesterday? You voted for Scotty and then just kinda stuck around the thread not doing much.

Exactly 15 min before thread lock, after ~4 straight linki refreshes...

JoH: I read Scotty scum, Diz town and I can't read Marmot or Eloh for crap. If anyone has a good argument, give it now.

Then a few people (you included) switch without providing reasoning at all and the thread is locked.

What was I supposed to do? Nothing happened that could have changed my opinion and there was no time for extra analysis.

Getting annoyed with your framing.

You could have weighed in more. But I just went back and looked. Your Scotty vote came much closer to the deadline than I remembered it (probably because I chucked like 50 posts into the thread in those 15 minutes. I was remembering it as if you had cast your vote a half hour or so before the day ended, and then say in silence as the rest of us tried to figure stuff out.

You still are someone who stands out for the simple fact that you are not on the metalmarsh bandwagon. That in itself is not suspicious, but it certainly warrants some attention, wouldn't you say?

And you've also come out swinging against one of the people responsible for lynching the dead scum player yesterday. Do you think we should all just overlook this reality?

Playing the "I was right, you were wrong, so shut up" card, eh?

[Sloonei]

vote Jackofhearts for the time being. I need to go do something else. I'll probably continue popping in and out for a couple hours, but I won't be fully here.

*waves hand dismissively*

What were you doing at the end of the day yesterday? You voted for Scotty and then just kinda stuck around the thread not doing much.

Exactly 15 min before thread lock, after ~4 straight linki refreshes...

JoH: I read Scotty scum, Diz town and I can't read Marmot or Eloh for crap. If anyone has a good argument, give it now.

Then a few people (you included) switch without providing reasoning at all and the thread is locked.

What was I supposed to do? Nothing happened that could have changed my opinion and there was no time for extra analysis.

Getting annoyed with your framing.

You could have weighed in more. But I just went back and looked. Your Scotty vote came much closer to the deadline than I remembered it (probably because I chucked like 50 posts into the thread in those 15 minutes. I was remembering it as if you had cast your vote a half hour or so before the day ended, and then say in silence as the rest of us tried to figure stuff out.

You still are someone who stands out for the simple fact that you are not on the metalmarsh bandwagon. That in itself is not suspicious, but it certainly warrants some attention, wouldn't you say?

And you've also come out swinging against one of the people responsible for lynching the dead scum player yesterday. Do you think we should all just overlook this reality?

Playing the "I was right, you were wrong, so shut up" card, eh?

Yes. I think there's something to be said there. I won't ever take credit for having metalmarsh pegged or being even remotely confident in my vote at the time. But, in the end, I helped lynch a member of the mafia team, while Jackofhearts (and you) were positioned opposite to the scum lynch. Simple optics says that's bad for you guys.

[insertnamehere]

Yes. I think there's something to be said there. I won't ever take credit for having metalmarsh pegged or being even remotely confident in my vote at the time. But, in the end, I helped lynch a member of the mafia team, while Jackofhearts (and you) were positioned opposite to the scum lynch. Simple optics says that's bad for you guys.

No, you'll just take credit for being the last person to want to lynch metalmarsh, jumping on him literally seconds before the EoD.

You could see how doing that, and then bringing out the "holier-than-thou" routine can stink to high heaven, right?

[Sloonei]

Yes. I think there's something to be said there. I won't ever take credit for having metalmarsh pegged or being even remotely confident in my vote at the time. But, in the end, I helped lynch a member of the mafia team, while Jackofhearts (and you) were positioned opposite to the scum lynch. Simple optics says that's bad for you guys.

No, you'll just take credit for being the last person to want to lynch metalmarsh, jumping on him literally seconds before the EoD.

You could see how doing that, and then bringing out the "holier-than-thou" routine can stink to high heaven, right?

Maybe. But I have some validation here, and from my perspective I have to be wary of all the people who were working the thread toward a non-metalmarsh lynch. That is basic mafia. Do you think my actions at the end of the day were scum-motivated

[Sloonei]

I feel that this push against me is borderline anti-town (not necessarily an accusation that those pushing it are anti-town or even wrong to do so). We just lynched a mafia member, and so far most of the attention has been squarely focused on a player who was essential to getting the mafia member lynched. I don't care how much tinfoil you have, that is backwards town play. Look at all the people who were trying to lynch someone other than metalmarsh, then go ahead and lay out all your tinfoil.

[nutella]

It's an interpretation of how I see you as a person. This 'personality read' has a lot to do with my beef against you right now.

I do not know what to say to that, other than that Sloonei the person and Sloonei the mafia player aren't the same thing.

I could not have shared all of my thoughts at the deadline yesterday because of time. Typing posts and submitting them takes a lot of time, especially when everyone else is flooding the thread with linkitis. As you have noted, I had ~5 minutes to make a decision and a brain that was overloaded with information. I was processing, but I wasn't posting everything because that would be a) impossible and b) a waste of time. In the end I decided to go with the marmot for reasons that could not have been articulated in the thread by any means.

^yeah, Quin, honestly I don't get how you don't see this. Have you reread Sloonei's last several posts before the deadline? Because he posts enough in response to my reasons against Marmot to show that he was genuinely changing his mind about him enough to justify his vote. And then he changes his vote, says "balls to the wall" and "call it gut trust in nutella." I don't know what more you wanted from him as justification. That's a legit, genuine, open-minded process of last-minute decision making that I can totally relate to as I'm sure I've been in the same boat as a civ before many times. Flip-flops happen, and sometimes they happen frantically in a nail-biting, lynch-determining way.

Do people around here stop caring about progression just because a mafia player got lynched? Is bussing a thing that never happens?

Of course I care about progression and of course bussing exists. I think the argument being promoted here is ass-backwards though. Sloonei is fielding suspicion because he didn't vote for the wagon more supported in his post history (between Dizzy and Marmot). Is it an effective or sensible time to bus when a different lynch is readily available which can be explained away by one's posts? The only way this makes sense to me is if Dizzy is on Marmot's team and Sloonei's decision didn't matter (and in this scenario suspecting Sloonei requires assembling a two-piece team dynamic right now).

This is another one of those situations where the accusers seem to ignore Occam's Razor entirely and jump straight to the evil mastermind attack. That's not a good look to me.

Yep. Exactly this. JJJ knows what's up.

Sloonei, If we understand each other now, I'd rather break from this for a bit. We've taken three pages almost just between the two of us.

Indeed. And you'll be happy to know that you were my top suspect all throughout the night, but after this whole episode you've climbed up closer to the green side of my rainbow. I feel like you believe your argument against me, and that is fair. I just hope that you'll re-examine my posts from the mindset that I am town and that my strategy always involves keeping a very open mind.

I'd also still like for you to answer to the obvious questions that come with supporting a case that was directly opposed to the lynch of a scum player in such a contested lynch as yesterday. Let's not forget that you were the one on the wrong side yesterday.

...Yeah.... part of me really really thinks Quin is bad right now (as you did, I found him highly suspect over the night especially when I looked at his ISO and a few others, and his jump on you really strengthened that suspicion right off the bat), but part of me does read his suspicion of you as genuine and civ-like in its persistence. Idk. But yeah, he definitely has a very net-negative look coming out of that lynch.

Sloonei, If we understand each other now, I'd rather break from this for a bit. We've taken three pages almost just between the two of us.

Indeed. And you'll be happy to know that you were my top suspect all throughout the night, but after this whole episode you've climbed up closer to the green side of my rainbow. I feel like you believe your argument against me, and that is fair. I just hope that you'll re-examine my posts from the mindset that I am town and that my strategy always involves keeping a very open mind.

I'd also still like for you to answer to the obvious questions that come with supporting a case that was directly opposed to the lynch of a scum player in such a contested lynch as yesterday. Let's not forget that you were the one on the wrong side yesterday.

It's ironic, but this is essentially the core of my argument against you. If you're town, it looks like we just have a different opinion on what that means.

We can talk about it later though. I'm banning you from talking to me about this.

What?? I really don't understand what you could mean about that open mind thing.

Marmot interactive reads are critical today. We should all do our homework there.

Yeah, do it! I sure as hell won't.

I did a quick skim of Marmot's post while I could in the night phase and thought Long Con was a standout as questionable (Marmot mentioned him in a couple off-hand ways that didn't lead anywhere or were chummy), and there was at least one waffle on jack that caught my eye. I am about to leave so I can't be bothered to find them. I'd like to see someone else do the work anyway.

Someone should check those out and report back. And check out the rest too. Do all the checking you can muster.

I'll be in Toledo through Monday night. That's Toledo, Ohio. I went to Toledo, Spain last year. I bet Toledo, Spain was a much better Toledo.

This lines up with my findings from the other sides of each of those interactions -- I looked through LC's and Jack's ISOs and I think they are likely candidates to be marmot's teamies.

@Marmot - Do you still think it was a legit slip? In which case, you should be voting me I guess? That theory is pretty much totally out of the question and I would've expected you to gain info about that also without looking at the other game. It's also not a matter of reading an entire game, it's one post in that game.

The other thing, alrlight *shrug*
Do you have more reads in this game? I know you're busy, but it would be very helpful to know where your head is at.

I dislike DrWilgy because he was a relative inactive Day 1.

I have no read on Elohcin, because there's just no content to judge. I will add a meta caveat, she tends to get more invested in a game when she is mafia. The most invested I've ever seen her was in Series of Unfortunate Events, in which we were mafia teammates.

From the more active participants, I like Golden. I also like Fredwood. I like your posts except for that one post. But I'm going to choose to read you as civilian for now. Nutella I also like.

I don't have much of an impression on the other players.

Here's a post where he says some things about a lot of different people. Non-committal on Elohcin. That's a chin-scratcher. Then he likes Golden, Fredwood, Dyslexicon, and nutella. I feel very confident that nutella is town based on yesterday (she was the #1 factor that pushed me to vote for metalmarsh, for the record). I also feel good about Dyslexicon due to yesterday. I have no substantial read on Fredwood, and a vague creeping suspicion of Golden that hasn't gone away for a second since I got here.
Anyone have thoughts on Golden or Fredwood, or that Eloh waffle right there?

This is interesting as well. I think Golden and Fredwood are also both possible candidates for marmot teamies. As is Elohcin I guess.
But yeah I've found myself agreeing with the couple points against Golden you've brought up recently, as well as with your vague creeping feeling about him -- I felt so strong town about him for a while but a few things have shaken my confidence and I've started to feel wary of him.
As for Fredwood, he's another one whose ISO I checked out overnight, and he almost made my short list earlier (the names I listed in my first D3 post). I ended up not including him because my feelings about him were so weak and vague, and because I included both Quin and Soneji on that list and they had both expressed interest in pursuing a Fredwood lynch at some point (in a way that didn't seem at all likely to be bussing). But I may well end up not thinking either of them are scum and that Fredwood is.

Here's a post where he says some things about a lot of different people. Non-committal on Elohcin. That's a chin-scratcher. Then he likes Golden, Fredwood, Dyslexicon, and nutella. I feel very confident that nutella is town based on yesterday (she was the #1 factor that pushed me to vote for metalmarsh, for the record). I also feel good about Dyslexicon due to yesterday. I have no substantial read on Fredwood, and a vague creeping suspicion of Golden that hasn't gone away for a second since I got here.
Anyone have thoughts on Golden or Fredwood, or that Eloh waffle right there?

Ding dong.

Huh. So that's what you wanted to hear? Again, I don't understand how you didn't see that. I think it was pretty clear in his last few posts before the deadline.

[Golden]

Hey guys. I'll probably be behind for a while (maybe this whole phase) but after that I should be back up with the play. In the meantime, anything that people can offer about insight into the end of phase would be helpful and appreciated. From my brief glance it's difficult to follow, but it looked as though it was a close thing between marmot, dizzy, and sloonei?

Also, rip silver lantern. I enjoyed playing with you and I hope you stick around for some more.

[juliets]

Oh boy, I have walked into a brouhaha that I didn't expect. I had to go to bed in the middle of the Quin- Sloonei debate sorry. I do most of my mafiaing in the morning.

Today I will focus on ISO's of Sloonei, Quin, Marmot, Dyslexicon, INH's case, LC, JOH, Fredwood, and oh-God-don't-make-me Golden. Nutella's thoughts come closest to reflecting my own, though I didn't expect the suspicion of Fredwood and LC (hence my desire to ISO). Didn't LC vote for Marmot? I hate not having the lynches to reference quickly. I guess the implication if he did is that he was bussing.

Without reading back I will say that Sloonei's behavior didn't smack of the Sloonei I know and love but my impression was he was still in catch-up mode and frantically trying to decide who to vote. Frantic doesn't describe the Sloonei I know but open mindedness does. I too had the impression that it was nutella's assuredness that convinced him in the end. It certainly convinced me as I was skimming through the other day. I have also been known to change my mind at the end of a lynch so that seemed normal to me. But - I will review in ISO and maybe see the other side.

I feel better a little better about JJJ than I did at the beginning because of his comments about the lynch end. Occams razor occurred to me as well.

Btw, a request: I use the light background instead of the dark background for the site. As such, I can't read the yellow writing at all, and I can't read the bright green at night time or early in the morning even when I highlight (my new computer highlights in a color that just further blocks out the writing in those colors). If there are other colors you can see on the black background and you can use to highlight text I would really appreciate it. Thanks!

[juliets]

It's an interpretation of how I see you as a person. This 'personality read' has a lot to do with my beef against you right now.

I do not know what to say to that, other than that Sloonei the person and Sloonei the mafia player aren't the same thing.

I could not have shared all of my thoughts at the deadline yesterday because of time. Typing posts and submitting them takes a lot of time, especially when everyone else is flooding the thread with linkitis. As you have noted, I had ~5 minutes to make a decision and a brain that was overloaded with information. I was processing, but I wasn't posting everything because that would be a) impossible and b) a waste of time. In the end I decided to go with the marmot for reasons that could not have been articulated in the thread by any means.

^yeah, Quin, honestly I don't get how you don't see this. Have you reread Sloonei's last several posts before the deadline? Because he posts enough in response to my reasons against Marmot to show that he was genuinely changing his mind about him enough to justify his vote. And then he changes his vote, says "balls to the wall" and "call it gut trust in nutella." I don't know what more you wanted from him as justification. That's a legit, genuine, open-minded process of last-minute decision making that I can totally relate to as I'm sure I've been in the same boat as a civ before many times. Flip-flops happen, and sometimes they happen frantically in a nail-biting, lynch-determining way.

Ok I just finished reading through Sloonei's posts up through the lynch and I come out here ^. It also seems to me that it would be stupid and careless to at the last minute bus a teammate after having called him town the whole time. Wouldn't it have made more sense just to stick with a Scotty vote? If Scotty is bad it would have been a believable bus and if he was good Sloonei had already laid plenty of groundwork to justify his belief in the vote. Maybe I will feel differently after ISO'ing Quin and some of the other people doubting Sloonei but at this point I'm sticking with my initial impression that Sloonei was coming from a good place when he made his vote.

I have added Scotty to my list of people to read in ISO. If there are any interactions I should read through please point me to them and I will do so. Otherwise most of my focus is going to be on ISO's.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Actually, upon reread, I like Sloonei's vote on MM.

Basically, we're at three or four votes on several players. Sloonei gives two posts saying he is questioning his town read on MM. Doesn't say why.

Sloonei than switches to MM. speed follows with a "damnit" (meaning "damnit, this is the only player I can vote for and they aren't my top suspect but at least it's a lynch" ???) and MM swings.

If Sloonei and MM were w/w, I think we would have stalled out. Maybe got a lynch on Scotty or Diz.

It's possible Sloonei was trying to distance and didn't think Speed would follow in the last 5 minutes (not sure exactly where the deadline hit but 5 min til thread lock). It's also possible Sloonei, MM and Scotty are all scum together so the switch was meaningless.

That's boarderline tinfoil, though. Putting Sloonei at light green town.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Here follows the last words of Silver Lantern.

Spoiler: show

Wish Scotty was still around. Still not clear on his stance with Dys.

Silver Lantern, have you read my case that I asked you to read? Is there a universe where you see yourself voting for Dys today? How can I make that reality into our reality?

If I vote for Dys, Would you be cool with me vigilanting you if he comes up town?

I know you aren't voting MM. I'm trying to convince you to vote Dyslexicon. If we want to actually learn something from this day, we need to get something going here.

It boggles my mind how you people have no proble "learning something" by whittling down town #s, but yet asking someone to share a night result is like kissing a leper...

Wish Scotty was still around. Still not clear on his stance with Dys.

Silver Lantern, have you read my case that I asked you to read? Is there a universe where you see yourself voting for Dys today? How can I make that reality into our reality?

If I vote for Dys, Would you be cool with me vigilanting you if he comes up town?

Do you think if I'm wrong about Dys, I must be bad?

What about all the people who mislynched Sig? Why didn't you vigilante them?

*buzzer*

Not the confident townie answer I was hoping for. The right answer is, "I'm positive Dys is scum so I don't have any concern over you even having to consider if you'll vig me." So if you're not positive why are you trying to push his lynch?

P.S. Wigly was on Sig's lynch train.

Wish Scotty was still around. Still not clear on his stance with Dys.

Silver Lantern, have you read my case that I asked you to read? Is there a universe where you see yourself voting for Dys today? How can I make that reality into our reality?

If I vote for Dys, Would you be cool with me vigilanting you if he comes up town?

Do you think if I'm wrong about Dys, I must be bad?

What about all the people who mislynched Sig? Why didn't you vigilante them?

*buzzer*

Not the confident townie answer I was hoping for. The right answer is, "I'm positive Dys is scum so I don't have any concern over you even having to consider if you'll vig me." So if you're not positive why are you trying to push his lynch?

P.S. Wigly was on Sig's lynch train.

Do you generally just not vote when you aren't certain about a lynch candidate?

I generally don't vote when I am suspicious of the person leading the lynch train...

Only a Sith deals in absolutes, mothertrucker.

I have no problems with Sith, as long as they're town.

BTW, I am probably going to Vig you just cause your avatar is so damn annoying... Just giving you fair notice.

INH and Quin are making me sad. Dys is the player I trust the most currently (or on about equal footing with Silver and Golden). I believe SO strongly that Dys is civ, I'd say even more so given the recent discussion -- especially their replies to Quin. I was thinking "amen" to everything Dys said in response to Quin's utterly ridiculous and nuance-lacking accusation that they haven't provided reads/reactions to the fakeslip when they so clearly have, and has generally acted very town.


I'm also disappointed in you, Sloonei. I'm glad you backed off of Scotty, since he's been hinting all game and that's part of why I believe he's probably town. But I thought you had said a couple pages back that you'd also be willing to vote for INH or Marmot, and now you don't seem to be considering that at all. I wish you would consider switching to Marmot, especially so close to the deadline when we're not even hitting the soft lynch threshold and he's our best shot.

lots of linki. Sloon can you give reasons you think MM is town?

If you could vote for anyone not named Metalmarsh89 or insertnamehere, who would you vote for?

Well, I wouldn't, but hypothetically if I had to, probably someone out of Jack, LC, maaaybe Eloh, and... yeah that's about it.

Also, didn't you just say Quin's case against Dizzy "lacked all nuance" or something?

Yes. That was specifically about the point Quin was pursuing, which was the allegation that Dys planted the fakeslip and then failed to use it.

@Quin: You have literally quoted the post where Dys did respond to people's reactions. Other than that, you must have completely missed the point they made about nuance, where it wasn't just about the first-degree reactions people had to the fakeslip itself, but the discussion it generated, from which a lot of their activity in the thread evolved.

I feel pretty good about Jack actually. Would be curious to get Fred's take on him too.

Scotty is still my most confident read.

That he's town?

No.

i forget who you are voting for. Who are you voting for? Why? Refresh me on your stance on all the people currently involved in the unfolding drama please.

I am cool lynching Scotty, Marsh, INH, or Eloh.

I can vote for Dys, but would probably only do so if he's stuck at 4 votes close to time and we have no other lynch candidate. I prefer to lynch someone and get an autopsy than not.

I wish Jack or JJJ was around. Sloonei is VERY non-commital as a leader.

If you think the mafia killed Silver because they were legit worried about him shooting them?

*thumbs in INH's direction*

Would love to hear the opinions of Syndicate regulars on INH's behavior at EOD yesterday.

[Long Con]

Hey, just got caught up. I think that looking at people who were non-committal, especially about MM, is the way to go. INH, I think, was way too "not MM" to reasonably be his teammate. It's the people who supported that thought in small ways that I think we'll find a teammate in. Now that I'm reasonably caught up (though I know I have not read a chunk leading up to MM's lynch, in that area anyway), I want to look for those kinds of folks.

I see that Jack of Hearts is thinking other thoughts, putting it on INH. It's an easy thumb to point, but since Silver had outed himself as a vig, it makes him a pretty big target whether you are INH or not.

I see a couple of people are connecting me to MM, so that's lame. Neither of them has quoted what they are seeing, so I'll just leave that ball in their court for now. I'm not MM's teammate, I am Civ.

[Jackofhearts2005]

GTH reads after everything that's happened today, with a few exclusions.

Civ:
INH
Marmot
Long Con
Silver
Golden
speedchuck
Scotty

Bad:
3J
JOH
Sloonei
nutella
Dizzy
Fredwood

Quin gave us these very interesting GTH reads shortly before the deadline. Many of these reads should have changed, I think. I'd like to hear his thought process about why I was bad and the marmot was good in particular.

Yeesh.

Golden is the only living player I agree with on that rainbow. Maybe LC now that I'm suspecting INH and I'm pretty sure they aren't W/W.

Maybe I should be wary about being paired with Quin.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Hey, just got caught up. I think that looking at people who were non-committal, especially about MM, is the way to go. INH, I think, was way too "not MM" to reasonably be his teammate. It's the people who supported that thought in small ways that I think we'll find a teammate in. Now that I'm reasonably caught up (though I know I have not read a chunk leading up to MM's lynch, in that area anyway), I want to look for those kinds of folks.

I see that Jack of Hearts is thinking other thoughts, putting it on INH. It's an easy thumb to point, but since Silver had outed himself as a vig, it makes him a pretty big target whether you are INH or not.

I see a couple of people are connecting me to MM, so that's lame. Neither of them has quoted what they are seeing, so I'll just leave that ball in their court for now. I'm not MM's teammate, I am Civ.

For sure.

Additionally, Silver was trusted in most player's eyes. If I was deciding who to kill for the scum, I'd have killed Silver. Maybe Nut (he was the guy who said "vote Marmot, Golden. Trust me." Right?) If I was deciding who to kill for the scum and I was me, Jack, I might have left Silver alone if I didn't think Silver was after any scummers. He's an aggressive dude and the Wigly shot was not surprising to me at all once he claimed. I believe he would have killed at pretty much every opportunity going forward.

Silver was pretty well focused on INH for most of his posts near EOD yesterday. That's not me quoting all the anti INH posts. That's me quoting all the Silver posts where he weighed in on anybody.

Way I see it, there are four options.
1) Silver was killed for being a trusted power role
2) Silver was killed to protect INH
3) Silver was killed to frame INH
4) Kill meta does not suddenly make sense to me and scum had some other reason

I'm quickish to dismiss point 4 because I don't think a Syndicate player would just feel like offing a new player to the site. Same for point 3 cause INH was doing an okay job of making himself look bad between his lousy Silver ISO defense, weak Dizzy attack and pairing with Marmot. He'd be getting flak anyhow and might even eat a Silver bullet. Why frame him?

Point 1 is perfectly valid, though, so point 2 is not necessarily true. Something to keep in mind, though.

[Fredwood]

Sorry, haven't been able to play this weekend. After work Friday social outing went a lot longer then expected, then had a bit of an emergency that tied me up last night, just now getting back into the house after leaving for work Friday morning...I guess I was home for like 4 hours Saturday morning.

Apologies if this screwed up the game.