Phenon Mafia: ENDGAME - Snuffed

#2851

Dyslexicon wrote:Overwhelmed. O.o

JJJ, who should I vote?

Is anyone seeing Quin/Jack as possible teammates, or am I just crazy?

Would love to hear more of your thoughts, if they're anything like that last one.

#2852

Golden wrote:
Dyslexicon wrote:Is anyone seeing Quin/Jack as possible teammates, or am I just crazy?
I'm not, but I'm interested in what you're seeing that makes you say that.

Just the "I'd rather be teamed with Quin, he's townier than Sloonei", "You can place me with Quin, he looks townier", "Maybe I should be worried about being teamed with Quin hahahaha", "I can't possibly be teamed with Quin as much as I'm saying that I'd rather be teamed with Quin" - from Jack last day. And now it looks like Jack is treating Quin as scum, in like a self-justified way?

Mind you all, I'm not all caught up.

#2853

And then there's Quin and Jack both being the ones to try and make something of Sloonei after the marmot lynch, which Jack spent time distancing from afterward.

And interesting theory. Unfortunately, I have had Quin as a town read for quite a while now, so I'm not really gravitating toward this yet.

#2854

I was considering it, Dizzy. There's something inherently nonsense about their dynamic today, and I can't decide exactly what that means. Jack's N1 target, which I confirm was Quin (his top town read at the time) implies he has some manner of support role if he's town.

Quin has claimed a support role today, and with that in mind it makes some sense for Jack to receive it poorly. The huge hangup for me is that Jack rejected Quin's claim before the claim happened, which would mean that the details of the claim aren't Jack's problem -- his problem is squarely with Quin himself (his play in this game, not the person). That makes no sense to me.

There's also valid reason to question the circumstances of Quin's claim. He had just taken two votes and was getting crap for his potential tie to the nutella kill. I don't understand what "mistake" he thinks he made as a civilian that made it an opportune moment to claim his doctor role.

Usually when there's so much confusing behavior happening in one dialogue there's a baddie in it somewhere, and I do think there's room for both of them to be bad. I have seen something on that level once to my memory long ago on RYM (Mac and Mungbean in #39, only Sloonei will have any chance of knowing what I'm talking about and still probably no).

The thing is: they're never surviving this game now. So I think that if there's a baddie in there, you done screwed up mate. I'm almost inclined to lynch someone outside that interaction and let the night kills dictate who's scum -- because if the scum don't oblige that, they're leaving an important support role alive. Pick your poison.

#2855

I don't think I have ever seen a civilian care as much about who he is paired with as a suspect as much as Jack has cared in this game.

#2856

Skimming, but literally don't have the brain power to be all serious and make reads great again today. But I will before the phase is over.

Can someone tell me what claiming business has been going on?

Straw, since when have I been thirsty for lynching lurkers? O.o

#2857

Dyslexicon wrote:Can someone tell me what claiming business has been going on?

Golden claimed watcher. I claimed tracker. Quin claimed odd-night doctor. Jack has pseudo-claimed an undefined support role. Scotty has pseudo-claimed an undefined verifiable role. I might be missing something.

#2858

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Dyslexicon wrote:Can someone tell me what claiming business has been going on?
Golden claimed watcher. I claimed tracker. Quin claimed odd-night doctor. Jack has pseudo-claimed an undefined support role. Scotty has pseudo-claimed an undefined verifiable role. I might be missing something.

By support-role, you mean someone who can help players survive during night?

I don't at all understand why Quin would claim doctor, or how that would help him/us from a town perspective.
I also agree that Jack's occupation with being teamed with Quin/Sloonei read off. My reaction to it is that it could be a ploy to seem less likely teamed to Quin. Good old reverse psychology. It just read overdone to me.

#2859

Golden: is there anything holding you back from claiming the remainder of your watch targets if you haven't already?

#2860

With all the w/w shiitake that Jack did on Day 1, I pose this exercise for him:

Jack, who do you think would be the most likely and unlikely pairing of w/w IF you were in fact wolf.

Do it as an impartial observer looking in, since you did that so wel on Day 1

#2861

Dyslexicon wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Dyslexicon wrote:Can someone tell me what claiming business has been going on?
Golden claimed watcher. I claimed tracker. Quin claimed odd-night doctor. Jack has pseudo-claimed an undefined support role. Scotty has pseudo-claimed an undefined verifiable role. I might be missing something.
By support-role, you mean someone who can help players survive during night?

Not necessarily. He listed the following as possible roles he might possess: doctor, bodyguard, nexus, guide, and "unculter" (irrelevant in a game with no cult).

#2862

I didn't think about baddie - baddie as I read through Quin and Jack's dialogue but I certainly see the argument for it. After watching zebra and Mac personally attack each other in a game for the sake of distance I can't believe I didn't think of it in this case. I will read back through their dialogue and also Jack's dialogue with regards to wanting to be paired with Quin and Sloonei. I won't do that until tomorrow though because I'm too tired tonight.

#2863

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Not necessarily. He listed the following as possible roles he might possess: doctor, bodyguard, nexus, guide, and "unculter" (irrelevant in a game with no cult).

Why is he not just outright claiming then, if he's going this far?
Nexus, I've seen in use differently than how he explains it. Basically I'm used to this being a passive role and an X-shot, which redirects any action being made against you to a random target. I've also only seen it used for non-town roles. It's rather rare.
Guide, I hadn't even heard of.
Doctor is problematic if Quin claims doctor, as is bodyguard.
I think Nut being strongman killed is pretty likely.

#2864

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Golden: is there anything holding you back from claiming the remainder of your watch targets if you haven't already?

I was wondering this too.

#2865

Dyslexicon wrote:Why is he not just outright claiming then, if he's going this far?
Nexus, I've seen in use differently than how he explains it. Basically I'm used to this being a passive role and an X-shot, which redirects any action being made against you to a random target. I've also only seen it used for non-town roles. It's rather rare.
Guide, I hadn't even heard of.
Doctor is problematic if Quin claims doctor, as is bodyguard.
I think Nut being strongman killed is pretty likely.

That's the nexus I am accustomed to as well. A guide apparently prevents its target from being roleblocked or redirected. Speedchuck hadn't heard of this role though and his game knowledge represents a lot of overlap with sprityo's.

I agree that these two seem to be at odds in the claim game. That's why I on some level understand Jack's disdain for Quin's claim. The puzzle piece that doesn't fit though is Jack shitting on Quin's claim before it was made.

#2866

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Golden: is there anything holding you back from claiming the remainder of your watch targets if you haven't already?

I will if there ever comes a time to call someone's bluff, but I can't see any reason to throw out people who no one else watched. It could both make my target set more predictable, and also reduce the target area for baddies to lie in.

#2867

Interactions of Marmot and Jack

Marmot stuff

Spoiler: show

Marmot wrote:
Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Marmot looked bad to me early, then benefited from going after Dizzy a bit while I was semi tunneling (and semi devils advocating) on Dizzy. In hindsight, it doesn't look great. Like in Unfortunate Events, I'm seeing some chaos and messing but not a ton of hunting. Scum?
How did I benefit from going after Dizzy?

Marmot wrote:
Jackofhearts2005 wrote:
Quin wrote:Jay said this, but remembered about Monkey Island later. I'll put the tinfoil away for once and say that I don't believe he was lying about misremembering. With that in mind, I don't think 3J would support a kill on who he considered a visitor. It's a nice look.
Agreed.

I want to be devil's advocate and say he's making up a reason he wouldn't kill Nacho when he'd really have no problem doing it but...I believe he wanted to play with Nacho, perhaps more than I believe he misremembered the game.

I guess I need to look at the flavor again. I wasn't pinpointing Nacho as for sure mafia killed, though from a threat perspective, he'd be a better target than Wigly, who was a lynch candidate and was not scumhunting.

Still not really certain of the Syndicate kill meta (though I get that it differs from player to player). Could anyone walk me through kill target discussions/ choices in recent mafia games? Why did you kill who you did, especially on Day 1-3?
Nightkill analysis isn't a common strategy here. But that's mainly because nightkilled targets are janitored.

Is it a thing where you come from?

Marmot wrote:Add jackofhearts to the list of suspicions.

I don't like this post. I don't see how he can conclude that I "benefited" from suspecting Dizzy. He also has Elohcin's meta wrong (which I described above). I get that he hasn't played here long, but I can only recall one game recently from Elohcin, and it's the same one I described in a previous post, it was one of the most active games I've ever seen from her.

Additionally, there's the nightkill analysis. But that is very minor ping, dependent on his answer to my question.

Marmot wrote:
Jackofhearts2005 wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:Add jackofhearts to the list of suspicions.

I don't like this post. I don't see how he can conclude that I "benefited" from suspecting Dizzy. He also has Elohcin's meta wrong (which I described above). I get that he hasn't played here long, but I can only recall one game recently from Elohcin, and it's the same one I described in a previous post, it was one of the most active games I've ever seen from her.

Additionally, there's the nightkill analysis. But that is very minor ping, dependent on his answer to my question.
You mean that game where Epi tried to lynch her day 1 because she didn't want to play and talked about how she might not have an info or BTCC role cause she wasn't invested at all? Yeah, her day 1 here and there look pretty similar.

Re:question

How did you benefit? Meant you looked better in my eyes. Or are you looking for how it did that?
I'm having trouble finding this game. There was Mafia of Unfortunate Events where she was my mafia teammate. She was lynched Day 5 and had 87 posts while alive. Then there was Monkey Island where she subbed out Day 1 (or 2, sometime early). But she was a civilian in that game. You were in both of these games, which is why I mention them.

That makes more sense. I don't get how I would personally benefit from suspecting a person, but I get that it impacts other players' reads. But I tend to play better under suspicion, so

Marmot wrote:I understand an Elohcin vote, but only because she's made it clear she's not interested in the game.

jackofhearts I get... sort of. I recall a couple things he's said that pinged me, although his responses were solid.

Why Long Con?

*snip*

I can hardly keep up with the whole game, let alone the flood of posts at EoD.

Why would you lump two players together as townies?

Linki: well never mind about jack

I've been staring at this for a while now and I have no idea what to do with it. On one hand it looks like Marmot is trying to capitalize on opportunities presented by Jack, through his different cultural perspective, to throw shade and smear. On the other hand, Marmot never really pursued his suspicion in a way that would threaten Jack.

Jack stuff

Spoiler: show

This just seems to follow the game-long trend for me where Jack provides an admirable quantity of content and somehow none of it rubs me in a way that is distinctly positive. I just don't feel anything from this. That's not damning, but it is bizarre.

~~~

Sloonei's take

Conclusion

I find myself mostly agreeing with Sloonei when he has a more conclusive perspective to share about this interaction. I don't think this stuff looks terrible for Jack, but it doesn't make me feel good either. This all looks like plausible teammate interaction without ever being indicative of teammate interaction.

#2868

I am caught up and I still think that one of JOH/Quin is bad and I also have a gun.

#2869

Between the two? shoot Jack.

#2870

Sloonei wrote:I am caught up and I still think that one of JOH/Quin is bad and I also have a gun.

Can it be fired during this day phase?

#2871

Sloonei wrote:I am caught up and I still think that one of JOH/Quin is bad and I also have a gun.

#2872

I'm interested in Jack's flip too.

Also, we have lurkers I wouldn't cry about going missing. Soneji - looking at you.

#2873

Should we vote for who to get shot? It would be like a second lynch? And then Sloonei could choose to do that or not, but most likely yes. Would give some infoz.

#2874

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Sloonei wrote:I am caught up and I still think that one of JOH/Quin is bad and I also have a gun.
Can it be fired during this day phase?

It can only be fired during the day phase, whenever I want.

#2875

JJJ, Did you go through Straw/Marmot? Not sure I'm in love with Straw anymore. =/

Scum the lot of you!

#2876

Sloonei wrote:I am caught up and I still think that one of JOH/Quin is bad and I also have a gun.

Jack, between the two. Quin is way too believable as Doc.

#2877

Dyslexicon wrote:Should we vote for who to get shot? It would be like a second lynch? And then Sloonei could choose to do that or not, but most likely yes. Would give some infoz.

This was my plan. I want to shoot one of those two. I've been leaning toward Jack but I don't want to take this decision entirely upon myself without hearing from others first.

#2878

Quin, Jack, how do you guys feel?

#2879

#2880

Long Con wrote:No I didn't. I named the two of you as my top suspicions. YOU are the one who made it "bad together".

No, you said you think me and Speed are both bad.

If there's no sker, no cult and we're both bad, how could we not be bad together?

Do you think we are bad separately?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'd like to know why JOH elected to ask that question about speedchuck and Scotty but not the others in the orange/red zones.

Cause if I wasn't me, I'd have noted that Jack and Scotty are not w/w and Jack and Speed are not w/w.

I'm not sure how I should react to so many players who hunt scum one at a time. You guys know we're looking for a team of baddies, right?

Scotty wrote:With all the w/w shiitake that Jack did on Day 1, I pose this exercise for him:

Jack, who do you think would be the most likely and unlikely pairing of w/w IF you were in fact wolf.

Do it as an impartial observer looking in, since you did that so wel on Day 1

I love excercises, even if they won't help me avoid lynch.

My obvious partner if I was a wolf (and I'm not) is Fred. I've been encouraging him all game, saying I'm okay with his scummy behavior. Now, I've reached the point where I think he is actually scum but that could be seen as distancing. Additionally, Fred keeps saying I'm suspicious but I'm not his top target or even his number 2. Distancing, unwilling to lynch me. (Jesus Christ, if I argue myself into a noose...)

My obvious not partner is Speed. For one, Speed is clear town, lynching scum with less than 5 minutes in the day. Secondly, I would hope my badgering of Speed's Silver Lantern fishing and subsequent calls for his lynch came off genuine. That'd be real distance, not potentially faked distance. Speed has been rather willing to lynch me as well. Not to say I'm scummy. To actually lynch me. (I think he's doing his best.

Some players say Fred and I are both suspects. This rings truthful (though wrong). Some players say Speed and I are bad (or you and I are bad). This rings dishonest or at least lazy.

Now that I've entertained that, entertain this.

You daycop me as town. What then? Does that change your suspect list at all beyond me? Does that knowledge make my accusers look bad or good? Which ones?

#2881

Well now. So if you're using it on Quin or Jack what happens if one turns up town, do you want to lynch the other one?

#2882

So much youtubes

#2883

Fredwood wrote:

Well now. So if you're using it on Quin or Jack what happens if one turns up town, do you want to lynch the other one?

I would want to, but we certainly don't have to halt everything and throw whoever it is to the hounds.

#2884

The "who am I teamed with?" does nothing more me. Boring stuff.

#2885

Fredwood wrote:

Well now. So if you're using it on Quin or Jack what happens if one turns up town, do you want to lynch the other one?

This song was the first thing that popped into my head.

#2886

Not sure I like the all of our resources today thrown into this argument, but then again

I AINT GOT NO GUN.

#2887

Fredwood wrote:Not sure I like the all of our resources today thrown into this argument, but then again

I AINT GOT NO GUN.

#2888

I'm also a little suspicious of Long Con and Juliets. But I still feel like I should shoot either Jack or Quin.

#2889

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Quin, Jack, how do you guys feel?

Like a townie beam holding up a run down house that scum Quin and Long Con are hidding in.

Knock me down and kill those goons.

#2890

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Quin, Jack, how do you guys feel?
Like a townie beam holding up a run down house that scum Quin and Long Con are hidding in.

Knock me down and kill those goons.

When did Quin first enter your mind as a top suspect?

#2891

Long Con wrote:
Sloonei wrote:I am caught up and I still think that one of JOH/Quin is bad and I also have a gun.
Jack, between the two. Quin is way too believable as Doc.

Can you elaborate on how Quin is a believable doc?

What, besides him claiming doc, makes you think he is a doc?

#2892

It must be fun
To have a gun
So who's on the run
Hiding from the sun
I'm trying to think of a pun
But I can't think of one, hon
And this is getting weird so I'm just going to stop

#2893

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:
Long Con wrote:
Sloonei wrote:I am caught up and I still think that one of JOH/Quin is bad and I also have a gun.
Jack, between the two. Quin is way too believable as Doc.
Can you elaborate on how Quin is a believable doc?

What, besides him claiming doc, makes you think he is a doc?

Do you have any role info to us, before you die? Cause it's kind of likely that you'll die.

#2894

I'll be indisposed for a little bit while I focus on hosting the GOC. I just ask that you don't fire the gun immediately Sloonei. I'd like to see the conversation develop a bit first, assuming you have time for that.

#2895

Sloonei wrote:I'm also a little suspicious of Long Con and Juliets. But I still feel like I should shoot either Jack or Quin.

I know this isn't top priority but why are you suspicious of me?

#2896

Dyslexicon wrote:It must be fun
To have a gun
So who's on the run
Hiding from the sun
I'm trying to think of a pun
But I can't think of one, hon
And this is getting weird so I'm just going to stop

#2897

I <3 Dizzy btw.

#2898

juliets wrote:
Sloonei wrote:I'm also a little suspicious of Long Con and Juliets. But I still feel like I should shoot either Jack or Quin.
I know this isn't top priority but why are you suspicious of me?

Because you're name is an annagram of "just lie".

#2899

Marmot wrote:I <3 Dizzy btw.

Lol! Can I reply to this? I lurves you too, even when you're scummy mc scummerson

#2900

Dyslexicon wrote:
juliets wrote:
Sloonei wrote:I'm also a little suspicious of Long Con and Juliets. But I still feel like I should shoot either Jack or Quin.
I know this isn't top priority but why are you suspicious of me?
Because you're name is an annagram of "just lie".

That is hysterical. I may have to put that in my sig.

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