Homestar Runner [Day 13]

[Mongoose]

Also, I think Lizzy and Snow Dog have earned themselves an eye for their actions...

Dom - What actions specifically were you referring to?

[Dom]

Also, I think Lizzy and Snow Dog have earned themselves an eye for their actions...

Dom - What actions specifically were you referring to?

Lizzy- the possibility that she is trogdor based upon the fact that she proposed that theory to possibily set someone else up...
Snowdog- his defense of MP, who I believe to be bad... especially since it was not based in reality

Mongoose, what do you think about the big to-do that both MP and Llama made about one of them definitely dying yesterday, but then neither of them were even close?

[thellama73]

Interesting that you and Llama have both, simultaneously decided to back off each other....

I think if you'll read my posts you'll find that I have continued to express skepticism of MP's good intentions to the same extent as I ever have. I feel like you've been misrepresenting me, Dom.

[Mongoose]

Mongoose, what do you think about the big to-do that both MP and Llama made about one of them definitely dying yesterday, but then neither of them were even close?

Probably just being Drama Llamas (har). I didn't read too much into it because it could have gone down any number of ways with so many people getting multiple votes.

[Dom]

Interesting that you and Llama have both, simultaneously decided to back off each other....

I think if you'll read my posts you'll find that I have continued to express skepticism of MP's good intentions to the same extent as I ever have. I feel like you've been misrepresenting me, Dom.

I've BEEN?
really?

OK Llama. My point is that you both, at the same time, decide it's a great idea to back off you both and to go after low posters....

Mongoose, what do you think about the big to-do that both MP and Llama made about one of them definitely dying yesterday, but then neither of them were even close?

Probably just being Drama Llamas (har). I didn't read too much into it because it could have gone down any number of ways with so many people getting multiple votes.

But they both announced that EXTREMELY early. I feel like they set things up. Maybe not together, but I feel like they're trying to control teh thread into chaos.

[Mongoose]

But they both announced that EXTREMELY early. I feel like they set things up. Maybe not together, but I feel like they're trying to control teh thread into chaos.

Their cease-fire was really weird, especially from MP's end. But I wanted to give them both a little BOTD because I felt MP stumbled onto something about Llama that I 1) do not know and 2) still can't figure out and 3) MP can't tell us without rule breaking or rule skirting.

Do you think it's more than that, Dom?

[BigDamnHero]

I still think you are a baddies movingpictures but apparently nobody else does so why should I bother anymore?

While I may have been singularly focused, at least I've been a participatory player, which is what I was calling Dfaraday out for (now who's trying to twist my words movingpictures?). I'm going over those who have been largely silent and those who voted for Hedgeowl (hmmmm....didnt Movingpictures vote this way?) to look for other suspects today.

If you still think I am a baddie, why would you stop pursuing it just because "nobody else does"? Also, I received three votes yesterday. That hardly equates to nobody.

What do you mean "may have been"? I still don't see a single other name you have actually mentioned as suspicious. Now if you were calling out DF as suspicious, could you clarify? Just because someone may call someone out doesn't necessarily mean they think that person is suspicious, so I'm curious if you think DF might be bad, and if so, why.

As to twisting of words, I'm not twisting your words, and I'm bothered by the insinuation that you think I am doing so. Can you not understand how I have been interpreting your posts at times to be twisting my words? You're spinning around everything I say and giving it a bad intention. If you are a civvie, consider the idea that I am playing a civvie game. Your tenacity is a bit irksome, regardless of whether it's directed at me or not.

Please let me know what you find after you go over silent and Hedgeowl voters, or whoever else you plan on looking at as well. I look forward to reading your thoughts.

Because i'm done going over the same points I've been making all game long. At this stage, anyone can go back and reread my case against you and judge for themselves. And yes, three votes is hardly anything to worry about considering one was my own (whom nobody seems to believe), one was Llama's who stated plain as day that it was more to prove himself than to cast an actual vote against you, and the third was a later vote (17th or so I believe) at which point you were hardly in any danger of being lynched out of the other 20-some votes in total that could've been cast.

And yes you ARE twisting my words. "May have" as in "posts I made previously" not as in "one potential interpretation of my posts." I have neither made nor am currently making no bones about the fact that I have zeroed in on you specifically as a bad guy. MOVINGPICTURES IS A BAD GUY!!!! So clearly you ARE in fact twisting my words in this instance, and I see this "righteous indignation" as nothing more of an act on your part to solidify your position against me.

My "calling out" of DFaraday had more to do with the fact that he was asking to hear more from another person when he himself has barely contributed anything in the thread. From my vantage point, this served as a means to get others to keep talking while being able to sink back into the shadowy recesses of the crowd.

[bea]

Ok - so, now we've come to Llama and MP.

This is a thing that I'm not quite sure where I stand on yet. They both seem to have bad feelings about each other, but most of it that is actually defendable seems to be pretty minor. A lot of it (that I can remember) seems to be "gut feelings" And they fall into that "dude I know you so well" category so it's hard to filter out stuff that doesn't just come down to trusting either llama about MP or MP about llama.

As far as I can see from MP - the most suspish thing that has me keeping an eye on him is the Vomp vote. Yes he voted civ, but I have to agree with Vomp, I don't think it did him any favors. Vomp easily could have been lynched Day 1 instead of Elo, but MP's 2nd place vote is easy to gloss over if regardless of whether or not Vomp got lynched and flipped civ. Had he got lynched, he could have just as easily fell back on "I was following someone else's lead as I had no real suspicion" (which is pretty much what he said in his vote post if I recall correctly) as he has fallen to "I was baddie baiting." this time around. MP's been in enough games to know that statistically we tend to lynch a civ more often on day 1 than we do a baddie. And if he wasn't suspish of Vompie, he had to know that placing a vote on him Day 1 put him in danger. It's day 1. LOTS of people randomize. The spread is often huge on Day 1 votes and he could have easily been lynched with as little as 3 votes. Seems like a big risk to take with someone else's life on Day 1. Is the part I can't shake.

llama - I believe someone up there said he sounded "coached." I don't agree with coached either, but maybe "rehearsed" is a better word? Everything he says makes sense. But it's almost like it makes too much sense. Like that feeling you get when someone tries to sell you something "too good to be ture." I could be just miss reading his tone atm as I slammed another zillion pages in one sitting.

And because this game doesn't have ENOUGH wacky theories floating around, part of me wonders if llama and MP aren't doing this to throw some distance on each other. They are both cunning enough players to be able to sound suspish of a teammate but never quite suspish enough to get them lynched. Ya know? (That one there, I admit is kinda a streach, but I know baddie MP can play a pretty ballzy game when he wants to.)

Just sayin' this idea has come up more than once since I posted it - am I the only one that thinks it's a very real possibility? I don't know what to make of either of them (and I admit, I recently leaned more toward civ on MP only because he admitted to having maybe been wrong ) it's an idea i proposed early and have never really completely shaken off.

linkie - w/ goosie -Maybe? IDK - is that idea more valid than the one up there? I'm willing to listen. IDK - I've been drinking so my idea of what I think is right right know could (and most likely is) tainted.

[Dom]

But they both announced that EXTREMELY early. I feel like they set things up. Maybe not together, but I feel like they're trying to control teh thread into chaos.

Their cease-fire was really weird, especially from MP's end. But I wanted to give them both a little BOTD because I felt MP stumbled onto something about Llama that I 1) do not know and 2) still can't figure out and 3) MP can't tell us without rule breaking or rule skirting.

Do you think it's more than that, Dom?

Moreso with MP than with Llama. i feel like MP is abandonning a case because no one is buying the product anymore... and he doesn't want to be accused of being single minded and such.

i find MP's "yeah let's look everywhere else but where we were because that was at ME" to be weird.

[bea]

But they both announced that EXTREMELY early. I feel like they set things up. Maybe not together, but I feel like they're trying to control teh thread into chaos.

Their cease-fire was really weird, especially from MP's end. But I wanted to give them both a little BOTD because I felt MP stumbled onto something about Llama that I 1) do not know and 2) still can't figure out and 3) MP can't tell us without rule breaking or rule skirting.

Do you think it's more than that, Dom?

Moreso with MP than with Llama. i feel like MP is abandonning a case because no one is buying the product anymore... and he doesn't want to be accused of being single minded and such.

i find MP's "yeah let's look everywhere else but where we were because that was at ME" to be weird.

this feels like a fair point as well.

[Matt]

I dunno about MP (sorry MP), but I'm fairly certain Llama is civvie.

Unless, to quote what MP has said himself about this very situation..."I'm being played right now."

But the only way I'm being played is if they're on the same team, and I don't see them going after each other the way they have if they were on the same team.

[Matt]

Btw, I've played Mafia for about 2 years, and have never seen the expression "BOTD" until this game. Someone want to enlighten me?

Back off today? Best I could come up with.

[Spacedaisy]

Benefit Of The Doubt.

[Matt]

Benefit Of The Doubt.

Thanks Daisy!

[BigDamnHero]

As I posted earlier, I want to do a read-through of some of the more silent players and the hedgeowl voters. In no particular order I'm starting with Matahari:

up to this point, she has about 29 posts in the game. Not particularly quiet but not very vocal either, and i believe she said smoething about playing multiple games (which I don't see how ANYONE can do without going insane or suffering a pulmonary emoblism in their brain) so maybe her silence is SOMEWHAT excuseable.

Day 1 she talked about mongoose and eloicin talking and not understanding mp's reson for voting how he did. She ends up casting a vote for elocin and finishes off the day saying she is suspicious of Gleam, bea & MP.

On Day 2 she only had a single post saying she was going to try and catch-up to the fast moving discussion. (nonne at all on night 2).

Day 3 she again states she'll try & catch up but finds it hard. Again, she voices her suspicions of Bea and doesn't understand MP's thinking in regards to comments about mongoose. She continues by voicing a thought she had during her rereqad about a connection between mongoose & Mp and then decides to reread hedgeowls posts. she rereads more to figure out MP's turnaround during day 0 discussions and says it feels to her more like a distraction. SHe asks for opinions about vomps from MP & gleam in order to form an opinion about him as well, but ends up voting hedgeowl anyway.

[Leamiteo]

Daisy, that was a great video clip, ha! I'm sad to see you gone, Hedge. This does not help me in distinguishing good from bad! I just knew that somebody would get hurt in that tangled mess of finger pointing.

Sorry if I'm repeating something stated earlier in the thread, I'm ten pages behind ( So. Much. Reading. To. Do.) but I don't think that there is any strong evidence to be gleaned from the voters of Hedge alone that would lead us back to a baddie. I think at this point going hard after someone who voted Hedgeowl might result in another civvie being lynch. Not good. However, I do think it's a good idea to keep an eye on the voters to see if we spot any fishy behavior.

Not too much to add at this point. Deductions to come once I'm caught up.

I'm off to bed and will catch up later with rested eyes.

[Dom]

I dunno about MP (sorry MP), but I'm fairly certain Llama is civvie.

Unless, to quote what MP has said himself about this very situation..."I'm being played right now."

But the only way I'm being played is if they're on the same team, and I don't see them going after each other the way they have if they were on the same team.

I think MP is trying to imply that unless Llama is playing a very good baddie game, he's likely civv....

Although, I find this interesting because MP dropped Llama in such a contrived way... as if he had given up because no one was biting anymore.... and then he suggested that we look at quiet players and lizzy and snow dog and vomps (I think? Don't quote me on that). So.. basically anyone who isn't him. Basically, MP wants us all to forget that he ever brought up Llama....

[Matt]

Not particularly quiet but not very vocal either, and i believe she said smoething about playing multiple games (which I don't see how ANYONE can do without going insane or suffering a pulmonary emoblism in their brain)...

BDH, typically games are not as crazy as this one, with so many posts only after 4 days. In fact, I'm playing another game with Mata over at HV where there are only about 300 or so posts after 2 days.

Oh, and since you're here, I'm leaning civvie on you right now. I don't understand the twisting of words thing brought up by MP and BWT, maybe I'm stoopid?

On the other hand, you seem to have a real nice handle on the game as a rook, however I am willing to give you the BOTD (see what I did there Daisy? See??) for now.

[Spacedaisy]

Oh Mr F... You're so silly, which is why I am glad you are playing! You are not allowed to disappear anymore, got that?

[Matt]

I dunno about MP (sorry MP), but I'm fairly certain Llama is civvie.

Unless, to quote what MP has said himself about this very situation..."I'm being played right now."

But the only way I'm being played is if they're on the same team, and I don't see them going after each other the way they have if they were on the same team.

I think MP is trying to imply that unless Llama is playing a very good baddie game, he's likely civv....

Although, I find this interesting because MP dropped Llama in such a contrived way... as if he had given up because no one was biting anymore.... and then he suggested that we look at quiet players and lizzy and snow dog and vomps (I think? Don't quote me on that). So.. basically anyone who isn't him. Basically, MP wants us all to forget that he ever brought up Llama....

I figured he dropped Llama because I pretty much pointed Llama out to him and said "Civ dude. See it? See it yet? Almost there...there ya go!" I know this doesn't help you, or anyone else for that matter, but just sayin'. Only MP could see what I was seeing, and I'm not trying to be cryptic, just the truth.

However, I would agree that he has named nearly everyone in the thread as a possible suspicion of his, but I've never seen that as a baddie trait. So many times, I have suspected nearly everyone in the thread of being a baddie myself, just cuz I didn't know what the heck was going on, in other games. This game too, as a matter of fact. Didn't I suspect you once this game?

On that note, and no offense MP, YOU'RE MY BOY BLUE, I am feeling more "I dunno" when it comes to MP, compared to a few days ago, when I thought he was most likely civvie.

Linki - Daisy, you went green for me! No more disappearing, honest!

[BigDamnHero]

Next I'm looking at leamiteo:

24 posts so far, but has limited internet access which can be a reasonable excuse.

Voted quickly on Day 0 without reading posts about other options or participating in any of the discussion up to that point. after voting she quotes a post of mine saying MP seemed suspicious to her and made a couple other posts reitterating this point but ends up casting a vote for Bullzeye on Day 1. during the night she says she'll try to start making more substantial posts.

Day 2 she asks BWT and myself why we both felt there may've been a typo in the strongsad poem. She refers to a post made by borokkuei that she finds noteworthy then says she is wary of talks concerning llama, MP, vompi, hedgeowl, & mongoose (not sure what specifically she's referencing as there are no posts associated what her saying this) thinking there are baddies latching onto suspicions trying to blend in. she ends up voting for borokkuei saying she doesn't necessarily find him ot be bad and that she doiesn't think others should necessarily throw votes at him either. She ends the day saying welcome to svs and stating she has no clue about anyone's affiliations.

Day 3 she has only one post to say she is several pages behind in the game but voting for dom due to his repeated suspicions of MP and that she's still not sure if MP is good or bad.

[BigDamnHero]

I know I've only reviewed 2 people so fqar but this daunting and thankless task I said I would complete has got my head spinning already and I'm mentally exhausted as well so I'm calling it a day. I'll try to get more up tomorrow after work.

[Snow Dog]

It seems I was incorrect about MP and my memory of the event was not good. I thought I remembered MP saying something like "I may have to throw a vote on Hedge to save myself". OK maybe he didn't. i didn't check. But he did vote amongst all the vote leaders right? So he did vote to save himself in a way.

[Tangrowth]

I only have a few minutes right now. Will post more thoughts later at lunch. But I wanted to say this:

Dom, and anyone else, I am NOT bad. You're trying to get a civvie lynched. No one gains from my lynch but any of the baddies. If you really are a civvie, Dom, remain open-minded and consider for two seconds that I dropped the case on llama because I realized it was falling apart and was a bunch of crap that didn't stand up. If my gut was wrong, the whole thing fell apart. I didn't have a light bulb moment until Matt F pointed something out. Go back and re-read my posts.

Also, I am not dismissing separate baddie teams because I know I am not bad and I do not think llama is either.

The thread is being swayed in my direction and I am certain that some of it is for nefarious reasons.

I am not just throwing out names to lynch, that is SO untrue. I am trying to get discussion going from players about other players because I personally feel that all the main discussion topics have been mostly or all civvies.

[Tangrowth]

Anyone find it interesting that perhaps my biggest defender, Devin, who is largely believed to be civvie (for good reason, if you don't believe me, re-read his posts), was killed last night, and NOW there's this huge movement against me?

Think about it.

[Tangrowth]

Let me also remind all of you that I am throwing out names to be DISCUSSED. I even specifically stated I actually somewhat trust some of these players, but others I don't necessarily. They are NOT my list of suspicions.

I want to see what players say about each other because you want to know the truth? I honestly have no fucking idea who the baddies are right now. I don't.

And now I REALLY have to go. Be back at lunch.

[Snow Dog]

Anyone find it interesting that perhaps my biggest defender, Devin, who is largely believed to be civvie (for good reason, if you don't believe me, re-read his posts), was killed last night, and NOW there's this huge movement against me?

Think about it.

If you are civ why are you pinged by my "defending" you.....if that was what it was. It wasn't but whatever.

[borokkuei]

Yes, Lizzy, I very much am trying to catch Trogdor...can you not tell that by my questions towards you?

So, you're probably not going to vote DP today then? And you're only other suspicion right now is Llama? Okey dokey.

Also, of note, when Lizzy said "THIS IS AN OUTRAGE", it was directly after Vomps posting "shouldn't you be dead? (he was talking to Borok)"

I rarely vote early, especially only hours after the night post has gone up...

Vote Lizzy

I didn't even catch this when it happened, since I'm consistently busy and haven't been reading this thread thoroughly, but earlier in the game I had the suspicion that vomps and lizzy were on a team together, whether good or bad. I assume bad though, but that's mostly because I know vomps' personality I voted lizzy a while ago, and I'm going to vote for her again k

[borokkuei]

Now that I reread Matt's post, lizzy being Trogdor sounds more likely than her being on a team with vomps. Still, in my mind I have nobody else targeted.

[juliets]

Ok bwt and MP, I'm going to try my best to explain what I saw when I read MP's post that you reference and why I didn't find BDH's response twisting MP's words:

Third paragraph in question:
MP: Besides, you play your way. I play mine.
My Interpretation: We have different approaches to playing the game

MP: And that makes me a baddie?
My Interpretation: You think I'm a baddie because I have a different style of play.

MP: Before you try and argue that I am declaring you to be a baddie, think again.
My Interpretation: You might interpret some statement I've made as saying you're a baddie, but I'm not.

MP: You have already voted. I have not.
My Interpretation: You have already voted for me, I've not voted

MP: Additionally, that is not the reason I find you bad.
My Interpretation: I find you bad but not for your vote. And what does Additionally mean here?

So my interpretation was I'm not trying to declare you a baddie but I do find you a baddie, but not for your vote. It looked to me like there was a contradiction in the paragraph so I did not think anything of BDH pointing it out.

I believe I see now what you are saying MP said but it does not change my first and subsequent interpretations of it.

I can't get inside BDH's head and tell you how he interpreted it but if he interpreted it the way it was intended I can see that he might be twisting words. But from his comment it seemed like he interpreted it similarly to me.

I do not have a dog in this hunt, meaning there is nothing in this for me to interpret BDH as being sincere in his posts. It would be much better for me to say "yes, I agree MP, he's twisting your words". But it's not the way I see it. I am not trying to jump on you MP as you feel people are trying to do. You asked, I answered. I have to say though I don't understand your latest statement of you have no idea who's a baddie because I sure thought you were saying BDH was, but I'll take you at your word.

[Vompatti]

Stop this madness at once!

[Draconus]

Anyone find it interesting that perhaps my biggest defender, Devin, who is largely believed to be civvie (for good reason, if you don't believe me, re-read his posts), was killed last night, and NOW there's this huge movement against me?

Think about it.

[Vompatti]

[--] Devin, who is largely believed to be civvie [--]

[juliets]

Stop this madness at once!

What are you referring to Vomps?

[Vompatti]

Stop this madness at once!

What are you referring to Vomps?

The Lizzy bandwagon k

[A Person]

Stop this madness at once!

What are you referring to Vomps?

The Lizzy bandwagon k

ture :'(

[Snow Dog]

Stop this madness at once!

What are you referring to Vomps?

The Lizzy bandwagon k

You want to keep her in the game whether she is good or bad. You don't care. Other civs do!

[thellama73]

Did anybody think my analysis of Gleam mightt be onto something? I feel like I am leaning that way for my vote today.

[Matahari]

I hope this isn't frowned upon here, but I just popped in to say that SFU is over! Congrats to JC and Sorsha! Apologies if this is a no-no!

[Tangrowth]

Does anyone who seriously thinks I am baddie want to summarize how my behavior in this game makes me baddie? Even if you have touched it somehow in your posts, I clearly want to see this so I can actually defend against something other than interpretation of intentions.

BDH, Thanks for those posts. Do you have any particular reads on any of these people or not?

JC, I appreciate your thoughts on the matter. I'm trying to understand a scenario where he is simply just misreading my intentions (without nefarious reasons).

Also, I don't know who any of the baddies are right now. I do suspect BDH, I'm starting to wonder about Lizzy and a few others, but I feel like I'm still (and we in general, as a thread) are shooting in the dark right now, because llama and I were major suspects yesterday (both not bad), Hedgeowl was obviously not bad, no idea on AP, and no idea on Vomps (but he only had 2 votes). I feel like there are like 20 players I just don't know whether they're baddie or what the deal is -- and that's just about everyone. After feeling my llama case fall apart, I'm trying to put out as many feelers as possible and get onto something concrete with at least someone, but I don't feel there is any particularly very strong convincing argument for anyone being a baddie right now. I'm sort of lost, really.

Llama, thanks for your thoughts on Mata and SVS, I'll keep those in mind.

Matt F, I've thought more about your theory. The only scenarios in which Trogdor did not send in his PM last night could be:
- His target was randomized within his selected hut to be the Blue Laser that survives all NKs.
- Trogdor was blocked.

Other than that, I think it seems sound to conclude Trogdor missed his PM.

Even considering there are those two other possibilities, I do think Lizzy's behavior seems far from a helpful civvie. I know Vomps loves having her around, and I do too, but we need to obviously scope out all the baddies, so regardless I think she needs to be examined.

Her voting record is pretty bad; she voted for me and llama the last two days, and then you pointed out the fact that she so clearly believed DP to be Trogdor and yet didn't vote for him... and she can't seem to articulate why llama is bad.

But they both announced that EXTREMELY early. I feel like they set things up. Maybe not together, but I feel like they're trying to control teh thread into chaos.

Their cease-fire was really weird, especially from MP's end. But I wanted to give them both a little BOTD because I felt MP stumbled onto something about Llama that I 1) do not know and 2) still can't figure out and 3) MP can't tell us without rule breaking or rule skirting.

Do you think it's more than that, Dom?

Moreso with MP than with Llama. i feel like MP is abandonning a case because no one is buying the product anymore... and he doesn't want to be accused of being single minded and such.

i find MP's "yeah let's look everywhere else but where we were because that was at ME" to be weird.

this feels like a fair point as well.

How is this a fair point, bea? Or even Dom for that matter?

Llama had 4 votes yesterday and several players have still voiced they could see him being baddie. How is it I dropped it because no one was buying the product?

Also, lest I remind you, I was calling out STOP VOTING LLAMA yesterday and still votes were rolling in for him (from CBK, timmer, etc.). If I hadn't changed my mind about llama, I'm sure he could have easily been lynched yesterday. The only reason some players reconsidered was because of my 360 regarding him. I could have just as easily railroaded him and gotten him lynched, but considering Matt F made me realize how unreasonable I was being and that I was missing out on another perspective, I took a step back and realized my very possible error.

I dunno about MP (sorry MP), but I'm fairly certain Llama is civvie.

Unless, to quote what MP has said himself about this very situation..."I'm being played right now."

But the only way I'm being played is if they're on the same team, and I don't see them going after each other the way they have if they were on the same team.

I think MP is trying to imply that unless Llama is playing a very good baddie game, he's likely civv....

Although, I find this interesting because MP dropped Llama in such a contrived way... as if he had given up because no one was biting anymore.... and then he suggested that we look at quiet players and lizzy and snow dog and vomps (I think? Don't quote me on that). So.. basically anyone who isn't him. Basically, MP wants us all to forget that he ever brought up Llama....

I suggested we look at players who were not being given any attention, Dom, and I suggested that we look at them, NOT suspect them. Now it seems like you are either twisting my words or just misunderstanding me.

I am not even looking at Snow Dog, Vomps, or any of the quiet players in particular. See above in response to JC. I'm trying to figure out which options make sense and see if anyone seems most worthy of a vote... there are a lot of players who haven't been discussed and I am trying to discern everyone's intentions.

I'm not telling anyone to forget I brought up llama. I did bring him up. I no longer believe him to be bad. I fucked up. I'm allowed to have errors in judgment; I can't be right all the time. I took a step back, re-evaluated given new information and seeing my case get holes poked in it, and realized I was being unfair to llama. That's all.

If you think he is bad or that I am, by all means. But you're grasping at straws to try to make my intentions seem nefarious; I'm not sure if it's because you truly believe it or if you're trying to get me lynched.

I dunno about MP (sorry MP), but I'm fairly certain Llama is civvie.

Unless, to quote what MP has said himself about this very situation..."I'm being played right now."

But the only way I'm being played is if they're on the same team, and I don't see them going after each other the way they have if they were on the same team.

I think MP is trying to imply that unless Llama is playing a very good baddie game, he's likely civv....

Although, I find this interesting because MP dropped Llama in such a contrived way... as if he had given up because no one was biting anymore.... and then he suggested that we look at quiet players and lizzy and snow dog and vomps (I think? Don't quote me on that). So.. basically anyone who isn't him. Basically, MP wants us all to forget that he ever brought up Llama....

I figured he dropped Llama because I pretty much pointed Llama out to him and said "Civ dude. See it? See it yet? Almost there...there ya go!" I know this doesn't help you, or anyone else for that matter, but just sayin'. Only MP could see what I was seeing, and I'm not trying to be cryptic, just the truth.

However, I would agree that he has named nearly everyone in the thread as a possible suspicion of his, but I've never seen that as a baddie trait. So many times, I have suspected nearly everyone in the thread of being a baddie myself, just cuz I didn't know what the heck was going on, in other games. This game too, as a matter of fact. Didn't I suspect you once this game?

On that note, and no offense MP, YOU'RE MY BOY BLUE, I am feeling more "I dunno" when it comes to MP, compared to a few days ago, when I thought he was most likely civvie.

Linki - Daisy, you went green for me! No more disappearing, honest!

Bingo.

Also, I am totally lost; I'm completely on my own this game, so right now I'm feeling lost and trying to feel everything out.

Why are you feeling less certain of me, any reason?

[--] Devin, who is largely believed to be civvie [--]

How is this funny? There was a stream of posts after his death that indicated such.

Obviously you didn't read his posts.

Devin was a civvie. I know him well. I very, very highly doubt he wasn't, especially given all of his actions and the timing of his death. I'd sig bet on it.

Do you actually want to contribute some thoughts instead? If so, what are they?

Did anybody think my analysis of Gleam mightt be onto something? I feel like I am leaning that way for my vote today.

I do, yes. I personally feel Gleam is a viable candidate for my vote today. At the moment.. if I had to vote literally right now, I'd probably go Lizzy, Gleam, or BDH. But I'm still trying to figure everything out and I want more discussion. I could end up going a different way.

How do you feel about timmer? I feel he might be up there as well. His vote for you yesterday sits really badly with me.

[Tangrowth]

Mata, what are you currently thinking?

[Tangrowth]

I was honestly hoping for more discussion by the time lunch rolled around... I really want to hear from players regarding others; instead I got a bunch of posts from Dom saying how baddie I am because I'm apparently suspecting everyone and then a few other players (such as bea) just agreeing with it.

Disappointing.

[thellama73]

How do you feel about timmer? I feel he might be up there as well. His vote for you yesterday sits really badly with me.

Timmer has given us pretty much zero to go on, but I agree about the vote. He kept saying I felt civvie, then turned around and voted for me AFTER you and Matt changed your minds. I think it was likely a last ditch effort to take me out, with him realizing that he may not get another chance.

[A Person]

I was honestly hoping for more discussion by the time lunch rolled around... I really want to hear from players regarding others; instead I got a bunch of posts from Dom saying how baddie I am because I'm apparently suspecting everyone and then a few other players (such as bea) just agreeing with it.

Disappointing.

[Tangrowth]

How do you feel about timmer? I feel he might be up there as well. His vote for you yesterday sits really badly with me.

Timmer has given us pretty much zero to go on, but I agree about the vote. He kept saying I felt civvie, then turned around and voted for me AFTER you and Matt changed your minds. I think it was likely a last ditch effort to take me out, with him realizing that he may not get another chance.

I agree completely.

Let's just say there's one other reason I'm keeping an eye on timmer. I want to see what his current thoughts are first before I condemn him further (or not). He can be a powerful civvie, and I realize he's currently out of town (I believe), and other than his very pingy vote yesterday I have nothing else from him to make me feel he's baddie, so I don't think he'll be receiving my vote.

You say you're feeling most strongly about Gleam. Take a look at the player list; are there any names that pop out to you as you having absolutely no read on them one way or the other and they haven't really been discussed?

I'm itching for discussion, if you couldn't tell. Nothing better to do during lunch.

[Tangrowth]

I was honestly hoping for more discussion by the time lunch rolled around... I really want to hear from players regarding others; instead I got a bunch of posts from Dom saying how baddie I am because I'm apparently suspecting everyone and then a few other players (such as bea) just agreeing with it.

Disappointing.

I can't see what this is at work! Blah.

But I'll see it when I get home.

Anyway, what do you think of Gleam, AP?

[Tangrowth]

Crap, well, I have to go. Why didn't more people talk with me?? Oh well. Be back after work or something.

Gleam, I see you're reading! What are all of your current thoughts/evaluations and response(s) to what llama brought up? Very curious to see them! Thanks!

[thellama73]

You say you're feeling most strongly about Gleam. Take a look at the player list; are there any names that pop out to you as you having absolutely no read on them one way or the other and they haven't really been discussed?

Borrokuei and Leamiteo spring to mind. I haven't played with them before and I can't pronounce their names. I haven't too much discusion from/about them and I don't have any sense of their style or personality. DP has been flying under my radar this game too.

[Vompatti]

Stop this madness at once!

What are you referring to Vomps?

The Lizzy bandwagon k

You want to keep her in the game whether she is good or bad. You don't care. Other civs do!

Ture, but I'd also like to point out that I believe it was mentioned in this thread that she'll be away for a few days, so it seems quite calculated to start tossing votes her way when she's not here to defend herself.

[Matt]

Why are you feeling less certain of me, any reason?

Well, let me ask you...

What are your thoughts on Snowdog? I am pinged out of my mind based on his defense of you, and the only reason I let my susp of him die earlier, is because Devin claimed in the thread that "Yes, Snowdog is Civ " . Considering you believe Devin to be civ, and Llama believed Devin to be civ, and even I, myself, had a certain civ role for him if true...I took Devin at his word about Snowdog.

Then I think about way early in the game. You asking about info, Snowdog and Bullz saying "yup i got info", you saying "you guys must be civvie!".

Then I think about Bullz being rezzed. Apparently by Devin. And why? I dunno, no offense Bullz you're my bro from another mo, but I had no read on you before you died, I don't think anyone did really (did anyone?)...in fact, there was even a conversation about the poem player thinking you were bad...then presto chango Bullz was rezzed.

So here we are, all these names keep coming around together in different combinations...Bullz, Snowdog, Devin, MP.

Let me ask you, were you 100% certain that Devin was civvie? You can say without going into details if you were certain...were you?

Linki - I listened to her defense, Vomps, and didn't buy it personally. Speaking of which, gotta go quote another MP post about Lizzy right now...