Phenon Mafia: ENDGAME - Snuffed

#4001

I just wanted Post #4000.

Bye.

#4002

Marmot wrote:I just wanted Post #4000.

Bye.

Why are there 4000 posts this game? Who is responsible for this?

#4003

DrWilgy wrote:
Marmot wrote:I just wanted Post #4000.

Bye.
Why are there 4000 posts this game? Who is responsible for this?

sorry

#4004

Quin wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:
Marmot wrote:I just wanted Post #4000.

Bye.
Why are there 4000 posts this game? Who is responsible for this?
sorry

You're only 27 posts away from usurping the King of Fuck Mountain.

How does that Nike commercial go again? "Buy shoes!" Or something to that effect

#4005

We're still not halfway to Turf Wars.

#4006

Scotty wrote:
Quin wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:
Marmot wrote:I just wanted Post #4000.

Bye.
Why are there 4000 posts this game? Who is responsible for this?
sorry
You're only 27 posts away from usurping the King of Fuck Mountain.

How does that Nike commercial go again? "Buy shoes!" Or something to that effect

I did that already. He only took over again once he become Mr Confirmed Townie

#4007

Do you guys remember when this game wouldn't shut up?

**http://www.last.fm/user/nutella23** · #4008

Wow this thread is almost as dead as I am today. What happened to the day periods being near impossible to keep up with? I guess it's missing the ol' sprinkling of paprika...

#4009

My shaker is empty.

#4010

Sloonei wrote:My shaker is empty.

*Shakes Sloonei all crazy like*

Bioscience!

#4011

Alrighty. The first half of this day phase was a sack of poo poo. We're going to need to do significantly better than that. Things to consider:

~ Town has done pretty well in this game so far by only lynching one of their own, but do not forget that we've also shot two of our own. We're not sitting pretty right now, the game is still tight.

~ When you think you have the mafia on the ropes, the surest means of letting them crawl back into the game is to get complacent with a crappy, dead-dialogue day.

~ One of the mafia members appears obvious. That doesn't mean the game is over. That doesn't mean the day is over. There's a whole team. Maybe there's an evil independent. Find them.

~ Wrong happens. You may feel good, you may be confident, but you're human. Me too. Have contingencies ready. Prepare yourself for alternative scenarios where wrong happens.

#4012

Reminder: we are required to reach a full hammer this day phase to lynch anyone. Failure to meet that requirement even once will result in a town loss. I need you all placing votes and discussing them too. Right now the Mafia team is counting on lulling us to sleep.

#4013

Tally update:

[2] Long Con - speedchuck, Quin
[2] Golden - JJJ, Golden

Hammer is 6.

#4014

A quick rainbow list with where my heads at. Actually, I won't make it a rainbow list, I'll make it a power rankings. Most town to least town.

1. Jay - confirmed town, done.
2. MP - claimed town busdriver. Substantiated my watching results. Mafia having two busdrivers would be bizarre. I see this as all but mechanically cleared.
3. Scotty - I've never heard of a stump. I'm betting Scotty never has either. I guess he could have a teammate that has heard of it, but all in all the claim seems unlikely if false. Baddies seem to have no use for the role - in fact it seems it would be mechanically broken (or am I wrong? Anyone more familiar?).
4. juliets - everything about her feels like town jules to me

5. Dizzy - it's all vibes, but Dizzy doesn't feel bad to me. I put a gap here because Dizzy is the first person I could see being a town-threat indy, the four above don't seem to even fit that role.
6. Speedchuck - More work needed. Some responses from him leave me feeling wonky about him.
7. Fred - what am I supposed to do with a guy who doesn't vote? Fred is another candidate for indy. Would need to look at connections to Soneji/LC to judge him for baddie, but he seems very aloof.
8. Strawhenge - Jay said 'I'm inclined not to judge him on meta because he's had a one and a half year break'. My first game back after three years I nailed a baddie on day one and called out two of his teammates for their connection. My memories of Strawhenge are that he seemed more engaged and more convincing. Having said that, this has been a dog of a thread to keep up with, and I'm very mindful of the fact that he has been genuinely behind. Another candidate for indy.
9. Quin - I don't think Quin is indy. I also believe his doctor claim. For me its all about whether or not he is town doctor or mafia doctor. The latter works in my mind and given juliets various conversations I'm inclined to be much more suspicious of Quin than juliets. He's also treated being in the PoE here differently to how he's treated it in other places, in my estimation. He was much more aggressive about it.
10. Long Con - confirmed scum. Sorry.

#4015

Golden wrote:A quick rainbow list with where my heads at. Actually, I won't make it a rainbow list, I'll make it a power rankings. Most town to least town.

1. Jay - confirmed town, done.
2. MP - claimed town busdriver. Substantiated my watching results. Mafia having two busdrivers would be bizarre. I see this as all but mechanically cleared.
3. Scotty - I've never heard of a stump. I'm betting Scotty never has either. I guess he could have a teammate that has heard of it, but all in all the claim seems unlikely if false. Baddies seem to have no use for the role - in fact it seems it would be mechanically broken (or am I wrong? Anyone more familiar?).
4. juliets - everything about her feels like town jules to me

5. Dizzy - it's all vibes, but Dizzy doesn't feel bad to me. I put a gap here because Dizzy is the first person I could see being a town-threat indy, the four above don't seem to even fit that role.
6. Speedchuck - More work needed. Some responses from him leave me feeling wonky about him.
7. Fred - what am I supposed to do with a guy who doesn't vote? Fred is another candidate for indy. Would need to look at connections to Soneji/LC to judge him for baddie, but he seems very aloof.
8. Strawhenge - Jay said 'I'm inclined not to judge him on meta because he's had a one and a half year break'. My first game back after three years I nailed a baddie on day one and called out two of his teammates for their connection. My memories of Strawhenge are that he seemed more engaged and more convincing. Having said that, this has been a dog of a thread to keep up with, and I'm very mindful of the fact that he has been genuinely behind. Another candidate for indy.
9. Quin - I don't think Quin is indy. I also believe his doctor claim. For me its all about whether or not he is town doctor or mafia doctor. The latter works in my mind and given juliets various conversations I'm inclined to be much more suspicious of Quin than juliets. He's also treated being in the PoE here differently to how he's treated it in other places, in my estimation. He was much more aggressive about it.
10. Long Con - confirmed scum. Sorry.

The reason behind your thinking the latter works is god awful: A mafia doctor that's unable to protect against a night kill. That's tinfoil at best and hardcore twisting of logic at worst. The latter works in my mind. Substantiate your PoE argument.

#4016

Why should a mafia doctor be able to prevent a mafia kill?

On this one, it's not even a case of inventing something. I've seen this role before. Far from tinfoil, it makes complete sense with an odd night vig.

I don't have a 'poe argument'. I don't even really know what you mean.

#4017

Golden wrote:Why should a mafia doctor be able to prevent a mafia kill?

On this one, it's not even a case of inventing something. I've seen this role before. Far from tinfoil, it makes complete sense with an odd night vig.

I don't have a 'poe argument'. I don't even really know what you mean.

Show me which game you've seen this game in before. See the latter half of your stuff for your PoE argument. Apparently I'm 'handling it differently'.

#4018

Quin wrote:
Golden wrote:Why should a mafia doctor be able to prevent a mafia kill?

On this one, it's not even a case of inventing something. I've seen this role before. Far from tinfoil, it makes complete sense with an odd night vig.

I don't have a 'poe argument'. I don't even really know what you mean.
Show me which game you've seen this game in before. See the latter half of your stuff for your PoE argument. Apparently I'm 'handling it differently'.

Oh, yeah. I don't know if that's alignment indicative, or even if my instinct is correct. But I feel like you were much more calm about it in Red vs Blue.

#4019

JJJ I feel the same about the day yesterday. We need to talk about something, I don't want to be complacent. I also don't want to wait until 10 tonight to debate who we are going to vote. The linki was terrible in that last EOD, I couldn't comprehend what I needed to or respond quickly enough to people who were asking me questions or question things I wanted to question. Add that to the fact that I'm at my worst late (and 10-11 is late for me) and it made for a very stressful environment. Let's not do that to ourselves again.

Golden in general I like your reads list but I do have a question. Can you be more specific about what posts of speedchuck seem wonky? I'll read back on him and see if I can identify what you're talking about but it would sure help if you could point to something even if it's just a general statement. I've been reading him as light civ. I agree I wish Fred would vote BUT I can understand how he got stuck in linki this last round and I think Soneji using him as a "whipping boy" helps clear him for me.

I re-read the Quin/Jack interaction from the other day and I'm missing how claiming doctor helped get Quin out of hot water with respect to not remembering why he didn't trust nutella. Maybe he was just saying "I'll tell you why you should trust me even though I can't remember why I didn't trust nut, I'm the doctor". I feel like this has probably been addressed somewhere if someone could help me out by pointing back to it or just tell me who was involved in the conversation and I'll find it from there. I take it from Quin's not wanting to talk about this any more that he will not answer me.

Ok, on with the day.

#4020

juliets wrote:JJJ I feel the same about the day yesterday. We need to talk about something, I don't want to be complacent. I also don't want to wait until 10 tonight to debate who we are going to vote. The linki was terrible in that last EOD, I couldn't comprehend what I needed to or respond quickly enough to people who were asking me questions or question things I wanted to question. Add that to the fact that I'm at my worst late (and 10-11 is late for me) and it made for a very stressful environment. Let's not do that to ourselves again.

Golden in general I like your reads list but I do have a question. Can you be more specific about what posts of speedchuck seem wonky? I'll read back on him and see if I can identify what you're talking about but it would sure help if you could point to something even if it's just a general statement. I've been reading him as light civ. I agree I wish Fred would vote BUT I can understand how he got stuck in linki this last round and I think Soneji using him as a "whipping boy" helps clear him for me.

I re-read the Quin/Jack interaction from the other day and I'm missing how claiming doctor helped get Quin out of hot water with respect to not remembering why he didn't trust nutella. Maybe he was just saying "I'll tell you why you should trust me even though I can't remember why I didn't trust nut, I'm the doctor". I feel like this has probably been addressed somewhere if someone could help me out by pointing back to it or just tell me who was involved in the conversation and I'll find it from there. I take it from Quin's not wanting to talk about this any more that he will not answer me.

Ok, on with the day.

I don't mind answering you, I just want to avoid becoming the center of attention again. My intention coming into the day was to just drop some information into the thread without making it obvious it was about nutella. The conversation about nutella wasn't 'linked' like I think you're picturing it. It was more like two conversation pieces that coincidentally were related. The claim was more or less intended to, as you said, get heat off my back. I dug a hole for myself in the way I came into the day and a multitude of 'stuff' just made me think it was beneficial to claim. That 'stuff' I'm sure I've talked about.

Yesterday was awful in terms of non-Quin discussion, albeit we did get Soneji; so I'm trying to actively push conversation topics that aren't me. Admittedly it's a bit of a meh town play at face value, but I am doing it in towns best interest.

#4021

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Alrighty. The first half of this day phase was a sack of poo poo. We're going to need to do significantly better than that. Things to consider:

~ Town has done pretty well in this game so far by only lynching one of their own, but do not forget that we've also shot two of our own. We're not sitting pretty right now, the game is still tight.

~ When you think you have the mafia on the ropes, the surest means of letting them crawl back into the game is to get complacent with a crappy, dead-dialogue day.

~ One of the mafia members appears obvious. That doesn't mean the game is over. That doesn't mean the day is over. There's a whole team. Maybe there's an evil independent. Find them.

~ Wrong happens. You may feel good, you may be confident, but you're human. Me too. Have contingencies ready. Prepare yourself for alternative scenarios where wrong happens.

Yeah, people, let's get more chatter going! *claps hands* I actually got a red peek on speedchuck, which is why I was trying to get him lynched. I was trying to be subtle before because I'm a gentleman, but there are TWO baddie teams, and he's on the one you don't think I'm on. *ahem* Anyways: speedchuck is bad news.

Vote speedchuck

This will blow the game wide open, I assure you. Check it out:

#4022

No, I won't be needing any of that today, but thank you.

#4023

Well, you know, chatter is nice. I finally signed up for Survivor Mafia, so that's cool.

#4024

unvote

Vote Long Con

#4025

Quin, you keep saying people only talked about you yesterday and it's not remotely accurate. Discussion was consistently broad across the player roster. Why are you pushing this narrative?

#4026

LC you are reminding me of I think it was MP in Masters of the Universe, an outted baddie taunting the thread.

#4027

juliets wrote:LC you are reminding me of I think it was MP in Masters of the Universe, an outted baddie taunting the thread.

Juliets, how could you?

#4028

Reminder that Long Con is 3 votes from the hammer. Do not drop it yet, there's still plenty to talk about. Not about LC himself though.

#4029

Don't worry about me dropping a vote this early, I agree we should make the most of trying to talk things through this day.

#4030

JJJ is imagining Speedchuck voted, but speedchuck didnt. Either that or im blind

VOTALS:

Long Con (3): Quin, JJJ, Speedchuck
Golden (1): Golden
Speedchuck (1): Long Con

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to Lynch. Day ends in approx 13.5 hours.

#4031

speedchuck's vote was bold but not colored early in the day, if that counts.

#4032

speedchuck wrote:Haven't read, but here are my overnight thoughts:

Wouldn't put too much stock in the votals. People were avoiding voting/switching in places to make sure a lynch wasn't reached.

Long Con does not look better. That gun that Sloonei used looks like what Soneji may have offered. How would LC know where the gun is? He might be ON THE SAME SCUMTEAM. This accounts for JJJ's tracking result, the origin of the gun, and the confidence in the claim. It does not account for the Corrupted Jury or Golden's item. I think this is enough. Vote Long Con

Quin is looking better. Now that Jack has been revealed as a unmarker-protective sort, and Juliets simply said that there was another protector active night two somewhere (not that she was that doctor), it's very possible in my estimation that Quin is town. The protective roles set feels less bloated.

Also, Juliets: Could the protection you ran across be a vest in any way?

KILLERS
Silver Lantern - TOWN Janitor
sig - TOWN Leeroy

INFOROLES
Nutella - TOWN 1-shot Day public cop
Nachomamma - TOWN Scientist

JJJ - TOWN 3-shot Tracker
Golden - Every-day Watcher

REDIRECTORS
MetalMarsh89 - SCUM Busdriver
MP - CLAIMED (NEAR-CONFIRMED) TOWN Busdriver, validating Golden's Watcher claim (But not Golden's town claim)

PROTECTORS
Quin - CLAIMED Odd-Night Doc
JackofHearts - TOWN Unmarker
Sloonei - CLAIMED Bodyguard
Dyslexicon - CLAIMED Protective

juliets - ??? (Claimed that a non-quin doctor-ish role exists [Maybe dizzy?])

???
Fredwood - ???
Strawhenge - ???
Speedchuck - ???
DrWilgy - TOWN ???
Scotty - Stump

ITEM-ROLES
Soneji - Mafia Gun Giver
LongCon - Claimed Inventor? Gun-Giver?

DIVINE 3P
insertnamehere - 3rd Party Angel

Marker is in ??? or in claimed protectives

Blind, Sprityo. Blind. (Yeah, it wasn't colored, sorry.)

I'll join in discussion in about 5 hours. Weekends are tough for me.

#4033

It'd be ideal if everyone could provide their reads on the remaining players in full.

#4034

Alright cool, i fixed it

#4035

To the best of my ability at this point. I haven't read all of Golden so I am reading him today.

JJJ - civ
Moving Pictures - civ - don't think he read the earlier parts of the game and claimed bus driver quickly which made sense (if I followed the argument correctly) with what Golden had claimed
Scotty - civ - don't think he would have made up stump

Dyslexicon - light civ - just a little less sure because Golden put the thought in my head that he could be indy; still reading as civ though.
speedchuck - light civ - I've had him here all game and don't see a reason to change; see above though
Fredwood - light civ - see above but Soneji's votes do not feel like a bus
Strawhenge - light civ - see above but otherwise the fact that Soneji forgot him influences me - wish he could post more though; tempted to rate him null but I'm trying not to use that category
The above 4 are about equal in my mind. Note they are all people I don't know well so that might be why I see them so close to each other.

Quin - light scum - he voted for himself at the last minute which gives me pause but he could have done this as a risky gamble that votes would fall away from him; I don't see why he had to claim doctor so fast - why not take the time to re-read Nut's posts to try and cue him as to why he didn't trust her; it's possible though that he's not lying and I am just not understanding how his claim could be true (I've decided that redundancy is not there) which is why I don't have him as pure scum.

Golden - light scum - he says he doesn't lie when bad so that might account for him claiming vest; I like his reads but he could have easily made them conform to what he thinks civs would say; Soneji wanted him shot knowing he presumably had the vest; votes Quin but says soneji is the right vote at the point when the voting is over; JJJ seems satisfied with his targets which keeps me from going full scum, though Golden if you're reading this I don't understand Eloh as a target if you could talk about that a little.

Long Con - scum - I don't think I need to explain this one

#4036

@Golden, you're being dense about the fact that it's me that's having your back, and not Soneji.

So I'll just make that official, cause it's creating confusion, I've given Golden a vest on N2, because I was told I could give someone a vest and I had to make up my mind in no time and my head just said "let's give it to Golden". This means Soneji had time to give out a gun, and probably didn't give out a vest at all.

Other stuff:
- I think we should lynch Long Con today. Ok, he's the most obvious scum, but there's no point in having scum votes and actions alive if we can help it. Just get rid of scum numbers. We need to.

- Quin has been on the wrong side of every argument in the thread it seems. And it's always like "well, he seems town", but I'm starting to think not. The EoD looked pretty planned between Soneji and him, him self voting and then being voted by Soneji and suddenly it was a no lynch.

- Shtap with the self voting btw, omg.

- Where even is Straw?

#4037

It should be noted that Strawhenge's most significant contribution to this game has been to thoroughly case Long Con.

#4038

Town:
JJJ
MP
Scotty

Juliets
Speed
Fred (Not sure, but gut says yes)

PoE (from most town):
Golden
Straw
Quin

Scum:
Long Con

- Scotty should probably avoid to activate his power at all this game. It's better to have him as a town number and town voter, and I believe his claim and that he's town.

#4039

[quote="]- Scotty should probably avoid to activate his power at all this game. It's better to have him as a town number and town voter, and I believe his claim and that he's town.[/quote]

Agreed. Your vote is too valuable now Scotty.

#4040

Agreed, we need Scotty.

#4041

Re-reading Golden I had just worked out in my mind that the only thing that made sense was he got the vest from a civ. It's the only thing that I can see in light of LC getting the night right so quickly when he said he gave the gun to Sloonei.

Golden moves out of my slight scum area.

Not voting yet though, don't want to get close to hammer.

#4042

If Golden is scum he would know that Soneji did not give out a vest to him (and probably not a vest at all). The role description read that Soneji could give out a vest instead of a gun as I understood it, and oviously Soneji gave out a gun instead.

Quin has just aggressively had actions going against town all game. And I'm not all about it.

I'd say these are the two I'm looking at the most, and it seems everyone else too. I'd lynch Quin over Golden right now, I think. Though the "Soneji is the right call" that Golden posted EoD was awkward as hell.

Long Con, Quin and Golden I kind of wish we could triple lynch.

#4043

If Long Con's teammate is not Golden, then I'd say these three fill out my POE:

Strawhenge
speedchuck
Quin

Least to most likely. I still consider Golden a candidate.

#4044

JJJ can you talk about your speedchuck read or did you already do that somewhere? I remember an interaction analysis where you said he didn't look like a white knight (something like that) but I don't remember anything else.

#4045

juliets wrote:JJJ can you talk about your speedchuck read or did you already do that somewhere? I remember an interaction analysis where you said he didn't look like a white knight (something like that) but I don't remember anything else.

I thought he looked just okay in his interactions with Soneji.

It appears I never looked at his interactions with Marmot, so I'll check that out.

There is some precedent for him to put forth a highly involved and effortful performance while mafia-aligned.

Generally I think speedchuck looks like a civilian at face value. He is within my POE because he doesn't have any single moments that just smack me in the face and say "okay, he's good to go" like some other people do. I kind of got there with this, but I have no idea why I felt that way and am currently less inspired.

He's the tinfoil suspect.

#4046

Also, on the matter of independent candidacy, I think these four appear the most applicable (no particular order):

speedchuck - My tinfoil suspicion of him probably applies to any anti-town role, independent or scum.

MovingPictures07 - Only because he has claimed bus driver. I have seen precedent for this being an independent role and I think it's suitable.

Fredwood - He has been hesitant to render hard accusations, and he hasn't always voted. An anti-town independent by nature must be concerned with rocking the boat too much, because literally everyone else is a threat.

Strawhenge - His being in the lower end of the content spectrum makes him plausible, since some people struggle to maintain active play in a high-pressure role.

#4047

Sorry about my absence.

I hate to be a copycat, but I wrote out my own reads in almost the exact order as juliets.

I think that if Golden isn't bad, then Quin is the next in line, mostly because I'm still not getting the conflicting arguments. I initially felt like Quin was telling the truth and he could very well still be but I'm quite unsure.

I still feel solid about everyone that voted for Soneji yesterday.

My 4th from the bottom, should neither Golden or Quin be bad, is Fredwood. That Soneji used him as a whipping boy doesn't mean he's toe the either. If Golden is good as he claims, then Soneji already gave Golden vest to apparently frame him (I see no other reason why), and so it's not far fetched to believe Soneji was in on a vote for fredwood.

Also, wasn't there some talk way back when with Marmot busdriving JJJ and Fred early on? Made me suspicious of one of them, but then I don't remember what happened there.

Gotta do a show, will be back to vote and hopefully talk more later on.

#4048

Dyslexicon wrote:@Golden, you're being dense about the fact that it's me that's having your back, and not Soneji.

Thanks Dizzy! I had no idea that you were even hinting at that. I think people expect me to be great at picking up the subtle but I'm often not.

#4049

juliets wrote:Golden in general I like your reads list but I do have a question. Can you be more specific about what posts of speedchuck seem wonky? I'll read back on him and see if I can identify what you're talking about but it would sure help if you could point to something even if it's just a general statement. I've been reading him as light civ. I agree I wish Fred would vote BUT I can understand how he got stuck in linki this last round and I think Soneji using him as a "whipping boy" helps clear him for me.

So, I haven't had time to go back and read him properly, which if I ever get time and he is seriously in my frame, I will do.

But the reason why is, back on day one, he accused me of 'doing nothing' when I saw Dizzy as having made a genuine slip. Now, that was ok when I first read it (except that he snipped bits out of my post) you can go back and read a little bit from here onwards where I end up having a little spat with Jay over it.

I resolved it with speedchuck pretty quickly, but then as I read back and saw the context more, I realised that he had posted his original post against me after having read much further and so he understood already exactly what I did, and why I did it, and that made his claim that I 'did nothing' look worse in hindsight, as I explained here.

My suspicion is sort of residual because even though I tone read speedchuck (and did even then) I still don't like this approach to me, which seemed intellectually dishonest. I'm placing a marker down because if this game doesn't resolve quickly I think a full iso is needed to see if he's done any other similar things.

#4050

It's a big relief discovering the vest wasn't from Soneji. It's given me a new resolve.

Full Games	Civilian: Mafia: Independent:
Speed Games	Civilian: Fiddler on the Roof Mafia:
Heists	Civilian: MVP: RED vs BLUE
Burglaries	Independent: The Theme Is Literally a Burglary
Special Games	Civilian: Independent:

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