Homestar Runner [Day 13]

[bea]

I was honestly hoping for more discussion by the time lunch rolled around... I really want to hear from players regarding others; instead I got a bunch of posts from Dom saying how baddie I am because I'm apparently suspecting everyone and then a few other players (such as bea) just agreeing with it.

Disappointing.

MP - I'll try to explain this as best as I can. I've flip flopped a lot about how I think about you. Once post makes me think "ok, surely he's civ" the next post makes me think "oh, no, I'm being played again." I'm having a very difficult time deciding how I feel about you. I've been more than up front about it the whole way through the game, though not once yet has the "Ok, I'm being played" feeling been strong enough for me to earn a vote. In short, I keep holding two contrary opinions about you in my head. They are fighting a war in there. Believe me, I like the yelling in my brainz even less than you do.

I get that something happened yesterday during the lynch because of Matt that made you change your mind about llama. That said, I don't know if I trust you, I'm not sure how I feel about Matt either. He's always hard for me to to decide if he's being wacky for the sake of it or if he's being misleading. Hell, for all I know, you and Matt could be teammates. I'm doing the best I can to try to figure it all out.

Back to catching up....

[bea]

And caught up.....those 4 pages went faster. Though my headz are just as confused. I caught a bit of insomnia last night, woke up at 2 am and could not sleep. Had to get ready for work, just as I was getting tired. So...um...yea...I've been up for a while. I need dinner and a nap and I'm sure lots of this will make more sense.

I've seen several mentions of llama's case on gleam, and I know I read it, but for the life of me I can't recall it. I'm mostly putting that bit in so that when I see this post nap, I search his posts and find the gleam case.

I think it sounds more plausable that Dfaraday, DP or Timmer would be trogar than Lizzy. The more LIzzy was talking, the less sense the idea of her being trogar seemed to me.


Ok. nap now. Then my sweetie brings me foods. Then I'll be back to try to decide where to vote. I'll vote before I turn in for the night as I'm apparently on call to have my schedule completely changed at pretty much a second's notice. boss's wife's about to go into labor aaaannnny day now....

[bea]

Oh - also - Speaking of IRL friends - I spoke with SVS on the phone today about some other stuff going on in my worlds. She asked me to pass along the message to the thread that her intnernets went down last night and that is why she hasn't been around. She's hoping they come back up again at some point tonight. So, for those wondering, that's why SVS's been quiet.

Ok - nappies for real this time!

[Captain Bunny Killer]

Well, the last few days have been a whirlwind, but I am settling in, so I will attempt some catch up tonight.

[thellama73]

Wow, lots to catch up on today. I can't believe Lizzy still thinks I'm bad. At this point, I am thinking of voting for the following people.
A Person
Lizzie
Timmer
agleaminranks

Haven't made up my mind which yet.

[birdwithteeth11]

That was fairly easy to catch up on. I will have to vote fairly early tomorrow morning probably, because I will be in an all-day meeting/conference tomorrow, and idk when we will get a break with it yet. I want to let some of my thoughts simmer a bit more. But most likely, I will be voting for either A Person or Lizzy most likely. However, I have enough uncomfortable feelings about DP, Timmer, and DFaraday that I could contemplate them as well. More likely than not though, it will be one of the first two.

I'm still leaning toward llama and MP being good (for now) though.

[Dom]

Dom, and anyone else, I am NOT bad. You're trying to get a civvie lynched. No one gains from my lynch but any of the baddies. If you really are a civvie, Dom, remain open-minded and consider for two seconds that I dropped the case on llama because I realized it was falling apart and was a bunch of crap that didn't stand up. If my gut was wrong, the whole thing fell apart. I didn't have a light bulb moment until Matt F pointed something out. Go back and re-read my posts.

If MP's going to play semantics, then so am I...

What exactly do you mean by "you're trying to get a civvie lynched"? I'm not. I'm trying to lynch a baddie and I'd like to discuss you... but apparently, any talk of you is trying to get a civvie lynched.
Interesting how you're okay with bringing anyone else up for talks, but yourself. And when you start taking any amount of votes, you flip out and start becoming overdefensive, and you clearly did the same thing when I brought up this about you.

MP, maybe it's because I'm having a hard time in this game, but me wanting to discuss you, makes me want to "lynch a civvie"
Sorry I don't buy everything you say at face value.

Anyone find it interesting that perhaps my biggest defender, Devin, who is largely believed to be civvie (for good reason, if you don't believe me, re-read his posts), was killed last night, and NOW there's this huge movement against me?

Think about it.

If you are civ why are you pinged by my "defending" you.....if that was what it was. It wasn't but whatever.

But you lied....

*MP asks for me to tell him why I suspect him

Because anytime anyone brings you up, you use a combination of guilt and no u to combat it. You dismiss anything against you and just say that "you're trying to lynch a civ". You pick a specific part of the case, in my case that you dropped llama (for reasons no one but you and Matt can know), and explain it away. You ignore the rest and act like everyone is unfairly attacking you. Then, you suggest we look at pretty much anyone but you. But anyone who wants to look at you is trying to lynch a civv.

I never said I wanted to lynch you. I said I wanted to talk about you. I said I found you fishy. I've never voted for you.

But I have to vote now. And I'm voting for you. I am expressing explicit interest in Snow Dog and Lizzy, however.

[Mongoose]

That was fairly easy to catch up on. I will have to vote fairly early tomorrow morning probably, because I will be in an all-day meeting/conference tomorrow, and idk when we will get a break with it yet. I want to let some of my thoughts simmer a bit more. But most likely, I will be voting for either A Person or Lizzy most likely. However, I have enough uncomfortable feelings about DP, Timmer, and DFaraday that I could contemplate them as well. More likely than not though, it will be one of the first two.

I'm still leaning toward llama and MP being good (for now) though.

Let the record reflect I agree with this except my suspect groups are flipped in terms of suspicion levels.

linki - Hi Dom

[borokkuei]

I never said I wanted to lynch you. I said I wanted to talk about you. I said I found you fishy. I've never voted for you.

But I have to vote now. And I'm voting for you. I am expressing explicit interest in Snow Dog and Lizzy, however.

If you don't want to lynch him but only find him fishy, why would you vote for him now?

If you are expressing explicit interest in Snow Dog and Lizzy, why don't you vote for either of them?

Your words vs actions confuses and pings me.

[BigDamnHero]

just got home...next i'm going to do write-ups un timmer and borrokuei...

[BigDamnHero]

BDH, Thanks for those posts. Do you have any particular reads on any of these people or not?

Im not sure how I feel about matahari or leamiteo, honestly. From there posts alone theres not much to go on. The one thing I found odd about each of them was that they each had some suspicions of you but always opted to vote for someone else. In Matahari's case, she lynched both a civilian and a bad guy. As for Leamiteo, she voted for Bullzeye (who was night killed that same night) and Dom...neither of whom were lynched so no realy info to go off of there...

(back to my next 2 summaries)

[BigDamnHero]

timmer...17 posts to date:

most of his silence seems to be due to visiting guests...didn't vote Day 1.Said he would catch up bit never did. HE also said "teams all voting in one option is often disasterous." Then he referenced a previous game ikn which a team did exactly that.

Day 2...mostly garbled..something about one bar (possibly posting from his phone?). Asked borrokuie about his suspisions. Asks if anyone has played with borokuei before then makes mild attack against borrokuei claiming borok is playing "newbie card and attacking whoever suspects him". Ends up casting 1 of 2 votes for borrokuei (the other being leamiteo) on day 2.

Day 3...says he has better wifi but posts are still pretty garbled. Defends MovingPictures saying I'm wrong about him, but he doesn't know me well enough b ut that movingpictures is always very talkative. Says he can't tell if this makes me a bad guy or not. States that he hasn't been fully paying attention but asks if DFaraday is playing and who lizzy is. Makes allusions to A person acting odd but ends up casting a vote for llama (this post was pretty garbled and hard to make out exactly the resonings beind his vote).

Cast 22nd overall vote for llama on Day 3

[BigDamnHero]

borrokuei...19 posts to date:

Day 1...agrees with posts made by MattF & Birdswith teeth. Didn't cast a vote. Hid in the hut with Disgruntled porcupine & Bullzeye on night 1

Day 2...Says he is far behind in reading the game. Doesn't know who to "hate." Suggests "hating everyone & casting a random vote." Next posts says he may vote Lizzy (no reason given or quoted). Leamiteo find these two posts "flippant" to which borok replies "he is just a flippant peron." Devin asks if borok is an active player elsewhere to which borrokuei replies he has only played one other game then stopped due to school obligations. Ends the day saying he suspects Devin because Devin suspected him. Casts the only vote for Devin on dAY 2.

Borrokuei dies then is rezzed by Daisy for some reason during Day 3...first post on this day says he find lizzy & vomps protecting each other suspicious (despite not seeing anything specifcally that makes hikm think they are bad) and ncasts a vote for vomps. Soon after quotes a post from Hedgeowl asking people to slow down the postings which borrokuie agrees with.

During night 3, ADeivn asks about him returning to which borrokuei re\sponds "the host made a mistake but I honestly was gald I died since this game is moving too fast....doesn't know what the mistake Daisy made was specifically about."

His first post on Day 4 was to agree with MattF and casting an immediate vote for Lizzy since he had voted for her once previously. Later says he reread Matt's post and agrees with his theory about Lizzy possibly beiung Trogdor but still isn't sure. Responds to a -post from Dom who cast an early vote against borokuei.


I'm going to interject right here to say that, while I may not have fully read MattF's reasonings behind Lizzy being Trogdor, the basic premise behind it seems plausible. I also wanted to throw in the notion of SVS potentially being trogdor. I'm not sure about the EXACT timetable, but she was a replacement for Reways, correct? Maybe it was possible that SVS, in trying to aSSimilate into the game, wasn't sure of her role and therefor could've missed picking a hut to burn during her first night...again, the timetable of her entrance into the game may nulify this theory but I thought it may be noteworthy to toss out there.

[DFaraday]

Matt F, I think you could just have something regarding Person, whose various zany Lizzy defences are entangling knots under our quite benign negotiations, xtremely grievously.

[DFaraday]

My ping of Matt has subsided somewhat, I think it was mainly what I perceived to be over-eagerness on his part, which came across as shady to me. I do think the Lizzy/AP think has merit, but if only one of them is bad, I think it's Lizzy and AP is just too trusting. And since I have to vote now, I'll just *vote Lizzy*

[BigDamnHero]

One more review before I go to bed....Disgruntled Porcupine:

20 posts to date.
Voted w/ vompatti, Lizzy & birdwqith teeth for the stick option

Day 1 consisted of mostly single sentence responses. Says the more active games (such as this one) lose his interest. Says "he randiomized his vote & got himself...just kidding, he got bea." Next posts he "rerolling" because vompi randomized his vote & got bea and didn't want to pile on (protectiing a teammate maybe?). He randomizes again and gets Mongoose whom he actually casts a vote for.
Picks the Warrior hut to stay in during night 1 along with borrokuei and bullzeye.

Only post in day 2 says he is overwhelmed with other games and needs to vote, but never casts any vote.

Night 3 says he is playing horribly and will be more active when he dies in another game...nothing on Day 3.

[BigDamnHero]

Of all the players I've reviewed so far, they all seem to correlate to each other in some loose fashion. I'm not sure if this is something orchestrated or purely by coincidence. The main thing I've noticed is that they all seem to voice suspicions about one person (mostly, but not entirely, about MP) and then end up voting for someone else.

[timmer]

okay, so I've been so absent, basically from day 1, that I'm starting from the start. That's 19 pages. And for those who know me, I tend to like trying to spot the minutiae that gets buried under the avalanche of posts, and apparently this game has been pretty avalanche-y.

I just finished Page 1 of 19.

One thing that caught my eye was that in the Day 0 poll, Vompatti several times made reference to At The Castle being a likely civ choice, but, even after Bea pointed out that people could move their votes, Vomps left his vote where it was.

Posts like this feel like Vomps didn't want to move his vote at all (keep in mind the stick was in second place in the poll by my count)

I suppose I could change my vote if the stick or some other none-castle option suddenly starts getting a lot of votes, but right now I don't think there's any need to.

Not only that, though, but lizzy replied to his post with this:

Haaaaai!
:O The site was down for me the other day, and even now it is a tad laggy.

Anyway, I've heard a wombat in distress, so here I am (rock you like a hurricane k).

And the bird's got a point: the stick is indeed a great meeting place, if you catch my drift.

Now, this is written very joke-y, very LOL, but it reinforces the notion I get that vomp and Lizzy were kind of hoping the stick would manage an upset.

That's all for Page 1. moving on.

[timmer]

I'm only just starting my page 2 read, but right off the bat I see this post:

I would watch the video if my computer were capable, I can't remember that particular one just from looking at it either.

But I know the stick is a great meeting place, especially when you're looking at a thing in a bag, so maybe we could meet there.

That reinforces in my mind that there was a distinct push for the stick going on. Back to business.

[BigDamnHero]

Did anyone else notice this in the Strongbad email?

Strongbad's email:

#3- Decemberween gift exchange
What you do is pick da name A Person who thinks dressing up makes you cool and exchange pointless gifts like either of you care more about da other loser more than what lame thing you’re gonna get. Typically I just grab something out of da backest most part of da closet buried underneath that junk pile hidden behind Strong Mad’s horrible painting (which, by the way, is how he ended up with da painting in the first place).

#2- Matted Hair Day
This is da one day each year we give da Cheat his bath and try to untangle da mass of tangled fur using only forks and weedwhackers.

And #1- Trogdor-uary Awareness month.
We go door to door to spread da majestic message of Trogdor da Almighty, and anyone who refuses to accept him as their dragonlord and Master get a bag of Disgruntled Porcupines thrown at their face!

I'm not sure what exactly this may or may not mean, but I don't recall strongbad actually naming people in his posts before (though the Matted Hair thi8ng may be a stretch).

[timmer]

okay, holy shit, Page 2 = so much words!

First off, page 2's development with Snow Dog admitting to getting some info when castle won puts a slightly different spin on the stick voters from page 1. if, as he said, he needed his option to win but didn't have to actually vote for it, then any number of voters of other options may have seen that their option was winning and just parked their votes whereever. thus, no real help from page 1.

second though, and this is the big thing I pulled from page 2, is that constant barrage of posts about theories around the number 6. MP7, in particular, posted a TON, as did Mongoose who I do not trust, and Elohcin who was bad. So did Hedgeowl and thellama but they were not so much pushing the banter as commenting on it from the side, if that makes sense. I got a distinct sense of MP7 trying to post a lot here. Now, MP7 has posted a lot all game from what i can see, but it all accelerated right at a key point. What I look for is, did someone just say something they want to hide or push off of the page? I have my games set to have 100 posts per page, but i know a lot of people have it way less, so posts disappear for them faster.

Here's the twopart punch that precedes Mongoose, Elohcin and MP7 going nuts about theories about the number 6:

Thanks for the birthday wishes!!

Daisy: Are we allowed to discuss anything pertaining to the Day 0 poll results (or possible lack thereof) of which we may be aware?

All I want to say regarding the matter is that I had no information on the poll, and thus it did not factor into my decision, and I have not received any benefit at all from voting Castle. It seems, based on the fact that Daisy's only post was the answering machine one, that there is no publicly-made result of the Day 0 poll either.

Given Daisy said "those with info may not reveal what they were told", that makes me wonder. There had to be some outcome of the poll; I just have absolutely no idea what it was. I was kind of hoping voting Castle would allot me to receive something, but nothing happened.

I thus am not sure what to conclude.

Those two posts don't fit together right.

in the first one, MP seems to be asking a straight-up question, but the syntax of it suggests subtly that he got info. in the second post, after SD says yes, people can say they got info but not what, suddenly MP is crystal clear that he did not get anything. It doesn't fit right. I think MP maybe expected SD to say no, people CANNOT talk about the poll, period, and then he could sort of suggest subtly that he knew something, but suddenly, anything he said could be a misstep and he pulled back from it hard.

this is important to me, because of the three people who led the "number 6" theory talk, one is bad, the other I THINK is bad, and the third id mp7 whose posts above smell funky. Mp7 is the creator of the parchment, people. He loves making up crazy shit and manipulating a thread when he is bad.

and a bit of a demonstration of how mongoose seems fishy as well:

RE: The newest video (Marzipan's Answering Machine). This video shows Marzipan having 6 messages. I checked other answering machine videos, and they all start with different numbers of messages left on the answering machine. I think we need to analyze with this particular video was left for us.

I have a few theories:

• * We must all make at least 6 posts today or something untoward will happen
  
  * Up to 6 of us will be chosen to leave a message for Marzipan (although we can kind of do that in the chat already by saying "Dear Marzipan...") but maybe this will be 6 PMs that the host sends to only Marzipan.
  
  * To show Strongsad digs Marzipan (I guess we know at least one person doesn't have a nut allergy, har har) , but he is rather incompetent about executing this.
  
  * The (almond) cake is a lie. The video means nothing other than ambiance.
  
  * Other?

That said, I think we should all try to make at least 6 posts today of substance. I wouldn't think they would need to be very long, but probably have some on-topic goodness in there. What do you all think?

linki - lotsa MP

really? that's filler.

Also, thellama comes off as civ on this page. i like posts like this:

Agreed. I don't want to be seen as squashing discussion, but I find all this off the wall hypothesizing by Elohcin and Mongoose as suspicious, like they are trying to distract us from the baddie hunt.

And then back to MP7. If, we assume that a baddie would not be the first person to speak up about getting info, and we also assume that certain key roles would be obvious choices for getting info, the last thing a civ wants to do is get the guy who admitted to getting info to talk about it. At all. Like, to me, the best thing to do is leave the guy alone, otherwise you get people thinking about it and you paint a target. but instead MP7 posts this:

OK. I had info

Yes, an interesting development at last! Thank you for sharing.

Now you voted for Castle. Let's make a set of assumptions on your behalf. Assume that my intentions are exactly as I have laid them out to be. I do not expect you to assume them to be; mafia is about skepticism, I would be shocked if you trusted me, especially so early on. But let's assume I'm being entirely truthful. I had absolutely no information, voted for Castle, and yet nothing happened, yet I claim to be on the civvie cause. Others have said the same (thellama73 and Mongoose both seem to follow this as well; speak up, either of you, if I am wrong here).

Now, please, without discussing whether you received anything as a result of voting Castle, and I'm going to assume you voted the option that best seemed to suit your interests because that is only logical to assume, can you perhaps elucidate as to whether you believe the six options corresponded to anything regarding alignment; OR do you think my theory regarding six different players receiving a corresponding 'option' that benefited directly only them (but by extension, also the other players who share their alignment) to be a possible explanation for what occurred; OR do you think neither of those is true and we're seeing something entirely different?

This feels like MP was trying to get something out of Snow Dog that would give him a clue to his role. He's fishing.

I'll close this page with a comment pulling it all together. Elohcin was a Teen Girl Squad member. If I'm right about Mongoose and MP7, I think there is a good chance from page 2 that they are as well. And their first kill, on night 2, failed it seems since only a trogdor kill was in the night post. Wild theory time: they tried to kill snow dog but it failed because smart people realized the heavy chance that he is a civ.

[timmer]

Christ, just an addendum. I'm frantically trying to reread and catch up in two games, and I'm getting them a bit crossed. I've got Mongoose penciled in as a baddie in the OTHER game I'm in, not this one. Mainly, from page 2, I get the sense of MP7 being bad, with Mongoose a possible baddie as well, but MP7 is much more the dominant figure there. my perception of Mongoose was getting coloured by my opinion from the other game. I stand by what I wrote, though, I think Mongoose could be bad here, but MP7 is more sure (so far, this is after all only page 2 of 19)

[Matahari]

Timmer, I'm so glad you brought up the parchment. I have been wary of mp, and then I'll relax a bit where he's concerned. But I can't rule him out completely as a baddie. I was going to ask the dreaded question, for people familiar with mp as a baddie vs. mp as a civ. yes, I am reduced to making a judgement based on 'feel' instead of the logic.

BWT didn't completely trust mp at the start, but I believe he does now. I'd like to know whether people believe this is his baddie style or his civvie style.

Oh, and I believe that trogdor is either dp or borok himself. Yes I know Trog killed borok, but a mistake was made, and since I don't know what the mistake was, I'm not ruling him out.

[timmer]

Okay, here are thoughts from page 3 of 19. (Keep in mind this is still day 1, and no one has voted yet, from what I can see)

First, I get civ vibes, as of this point, from BDH, thellama, Snow Dog, BWT, Matahari and Hedgeowl.

Second, to me it seemed pretty clear that Snow Dog was just having some difficulty explaining himself about info, but that he and bullz were essentially saying the same thing.

Third, MP7. Reading through chronologically gives an interesting sense of time. When people were first confused about Snow Dog, MP got a bit excited and sort of quietly threw the idea out there that snow Dog maybe was bad and could be a lynch target. but chronologically it is easy to see that the idea of lynching Snow Dog, or even that he was lying was a non-starter and MP expertly reined himself back and over to the pro-Snow Dog side with aplomb.

Posts of note (some trimmed to keep this post as short as possible):

Either way, I want to hear more from Snow Dog and Bullzeye, if necessary, and I even more so want to hear from other players regarding whether they did or did not have information.

Sorry MP, you can't tell me the danger of requesting info hadn't occurred to you.

Bullzeye, I agree entirely. I'm still a bit hesitant because I'm not sure if it's because Snow Dog just misrepresented what he was saying, but it seems it could be damning.

I agree. Looking back at Snow Dog's posts, it's a ballsy move... but one that I think he would consider doing as a baddie. I'm very intrigued by this development.

Llama, you know Snowie well, is there anything you can think of that would clear him or is it perhaps that we misunderstood his posts and he wasn't clear enough? This wouldn't be the first time I would see Snow Dog lynched for unclear wording or for people misunderstanding what he was trying to say.

That being said, we could have come upon a scenario where Snow Dog is definitively baddie, and as such, I'm thinking maybe we should all just vote for him today and go from there.

Here MP even acknowledges that Snow Dog has struggles with English but still promotes the lynch idea heavily within the same post.

I looked back at Snow Dog's posts and read them all in order, and it seems there is a misunderstanding regarding the word "info". I think I get it now.

I'm not so sure he's a baddie caught in a lie. He could be... but I think he's telling the truth, assuming Bullzeye is. Not sure it means both are civvie... but I hesitate.

As such, I think it would be fruitful to avoid lynching Snow Dog or Bullzeye, because if we lynched one of them and they came up King of Town and Strong Sad, we'd have a double edged sword. We could propose that certain players could be certain roles based on this information, but so could the baddies.

The very fact that this could actually be exactly what happened scares me but also is very thrilling.

I don't think I want to lynch Snow Dog or Bullzeye today.

I don't buy any of this. I think MP tried to get something going and then reversed course when no one bit.

Now here MP started being very "hey everyone let's be quiet about the info, everyone be quiet!" but then Eloh posted this:

About the info, I think the whole thing about 6 players getting info as there were 6 options would be logical if Snowy hadn't received info *before* the pole. It would be nice if everyone who had info would let us know they had it and whether they received it before or after Day 0 poll ended, or both. We could put a list together of who had info and when and what option they voted for. Thank you SnowDog for giving us what you could

MP then posted after this, big posts, replying to several people but not saying a word in reply to this. And then, afterwards, posted this to Elohcin:

One last post because I happened to see it.

Elohcin: Catch up before posting again.

That's it? You've fully come around to the logical stance that discussing info is a baddie-favouring move and Eloh wants to make freaking LISTS and all you say is... catch up? If MP is a civ here, he'd be all over Elohcin for that. Or at least say more. This reinforces the idea of them being teamies.

And finally kudos to mata for this:

Trying to catch up-
first, happy bday Alex! My bro's bday is also the third, his daughter on the fourth, my sis in law the sixth, mine the seventh, and to make a long story longer, we have 12 bdays from mid July to mid August. All the celebrating is in my tiny apt. because someone has to be with my dad all the time. So it's her, or else I miss out on family fun. And cake.

So anyway, I'm in three games now and trying to keep up. I noticed that elohcin and mongoose were talking about the possibility of the number 6 person on the poll needing to be voted, although I don't agree that a host would ever out a player, I didn't think they were necessarily pushing it. But later mongoose posted this:

linki - MP: Yeah, I threw out something a little crazy, and then you brought it around to something more sensible. Eloh and I were just kinda thinking aloud. Maybe you or someone else would have taken that "illogical" reasoning and tweaked it or added to it to achieve something more cogent.

This also might not mean anything but I am wondering how mongoose can be sure of what elohcin meant.

I hadn't even caught this as I read it. That post DOES sound like there is a suggestion of BTSC. I'm holding still to the Mongoose as a possible baddie idea here.

[timmer]

Okay, Page 4 out of 19.

First off, (and this shows how out of touch I've been), Alex, my condolences on your loss, that's terrible news.

Next, that obviously being kept apart, I see Alex as having expertly used a "poor me" tone (before his bad news, to be clear, here) to bring up early deaths in past games to save his ass here. I'm more convinced with each page that he is bad, so far.

Also, I'll add Leamiteo to the list of seemingly civ players. Especially with posts like this:

And another thing on the fishiness of MP wanting conversation to stop, if he is indeed a baddie and baddies have BTSC, then he knows the other baddies that had info. Assuming this, could it be that he was wanting to see who else got the info, other than the baddies? And he was intrigued by the two different methods.

Rule #1, for the new kids, when you're a baddie and you need to defend yourself against a decent case, is to find the one little part of it that is easiest to defend and then defend ONLY that as hard as you can. Thus, trough all of Alex's posts on page 4, there is not one mention by him of how he pushes for info and then pushes for NO info. not directly. But, since a couple of players had mentioned how he seemed controlling, he posted a TON about that. A representative defensive post:

And Elo, I'm very sorry you found me as rude, but I never had any intention of coming off as such. You just had clearly not caught up by the time you posted, as you were asking for other people to share their info (or maybe you had and just disagreed with me... which is fine), and so I spoke out of urgency because I did not want to contribute to the potential outing of civvies. Regardless of what anyone thinks of my hackbrained theory... on the off chance it actually is true and at some point we lynch a player who would be outed in the off chance that it is true, it only possibly confirms everything, which only helps the baddies more than it does us.

But anyway, I apologize for that. I suppose I know better now to "control" the thread. Maybe I should have just spent hours on my Sunday studying instead and not bothering actually contributing, like other 'helpful' civvies who will last until Day 10 because they follow the crowd and don't put themselves out there.

It's all about the controlling piece, but nothing about the info/no info piece. He never mentions the flipflop.

A sort of aside:

MP. I find it incredibly hard to believe that an experienced player like you would ask for people to say if they got info and then when he got answers remembered that it wasn't a good idea to admit to info after all!
I stuck my head out to assist the civvies, as did Bullz and now others ar5e told not to do the same. I feel like I've been hung out to dry to be honest.

You were, Snow. You totally were.

And finally, Rule #2 in defending yourself is to get your teammates to talk about the specifics that you want to avoid talking about specifically yourself. Let's bring up Mongoose again:

I know a lot of players have expressed concern at what they call MP's "flipflop," but I didn't read it like that. I think 1) some of us were uneasy about talking specifics of the information game ab initio and 2) he had a lightbulb moment when we all started putting tangible theories together and realized how dangerous it was to keep following that line of questioning.

I don't mean to sound like a politician, but for me, it's not changing your mind if you receive more information (and this can come in the form of having an epiphany based on what facts you have at your disposal).

I really don't think an MP vote today would be prudent.

Is that not a teammate? I think it is. I am very comfortable, as of page 4, in thinking that mp7 and Mongoose are Eloh's teamies.

with that, I'm heading to bed. I'll continue on tomorrow.

[Matt]

Wow Timmer,

I can already imagine steam coming from MP's ears when reading this, whether you're right or not.

Still think my theory on A Person and Lizzy holds up, but I feel you've put me to shame.

[Tangrowth]

timmer, I am not bad. That said, I appreciate the case you built, but you're either a baddie trying to get me lynched because you have discerned my role or you are very misguided. Just because I've pulled crazy shit as a baddie before doesn't mean I'm a baddie in EVERY game, which is what players tend to think anymore.

However, I'm pretty sure you're a baddie now.

Go on, everyone, if you think I am most worthy of dying, vote for me. It will be Hedgeowl all over again. But FIRST, please read this post.

This is why I was refraining from saying anything about timmer, llama, until I saw what he said. I had a feeling that if he is indeed baddie, he'd try the same type of shit he tried against you yesterday where he defended you and then voted for you out of nowhere. Now let's examine timmer's earlier mentions of me, shall we?

voted borok. I think llama seems ok and mp is getting targeted for being posty. devins posts sem weird a bit but I can remenver other ganes where I voted him for tgat and he was civ. I stuck with borok because sonethibg about hus oosts doesn't feel right to me. will be on the road today.

This is Day 2. Timmer says something about me. He says I am getting targeted for being posty.

a bit of good wifi finally...

some comments about recent oosts whike this kasts...

I think bdh is wrong about mp. I don't really know bdh or his game byt mp is always this takkative imo. I'm not sure what vdh is seeing is vad.

more than that I'm now confkicted abiut devon. he seems to have gone from a lynch target to being so goofy that now ge isn't? or am I misreading? I have fekt that this is normsl devon chattiness/goofiness byt now that people aeent looking his way as much I'm paradoxically tirn. will hope this gets through.

This is Day 3. He mentions me again and says he thinks BDH is wrong about me. Apparently I am always this talkative. Yet timmer doesn't say anything like that in his manufactured case, does he? He even says "I'm not sure what BDH is seeing is bad". Yet all of a sudden I'm this big baddie bad guy?

Guys, don't be fooled by this. Dom and timmer are trying to get me lynched. Look at the way Dom voted for me ALREADY and that his words clearly make no sense:

Dom, and anyone else, I am NOT bad. You're trying to get a civvie lynched. No one gains from my lynch but any of the baddies. If you really are a civvie, Dom, remain open-minded and consider for two seconds that I dropped the case on llama because I realized it was falling apart and was a bunch of crap that didn't stand up. If my gut was wrong, the whole thing fell apart. I didn't have a light bulb moment until Matt F pointed something out. Go back and re-read my posts.

If MP's going to play semantics, then so am I...

What exactly do you mean by "you're trying to get a civvie lynched"? I'm not. I'm trying to lynch a baddie and I'd like to discuss you... but apparently, any talk of you is trying to get a civvie lynched.
Interesting how you're okay with bringing anyone else up for talks, but yourself. And when you start taking any amount of votes, you flip out and start becoming overdefensive, and you clearly did the same thing when I brought up this about you.

MP, maybe it's because I'm having a hard time in this game, but me wanting to discuss you, makes me want to "lynch a civvie"
Sorry I don't buy everything you say at face value.

Anyone find it interesting that perhaps my biggest defender, Devin, who is largely believed to be civvie (for good reason, if you don't believe me, re-read his posts), was killed last night, and NOW there's this huge movement against me?

Think about it.

If you are civ why are you pinged by my "defending" you.....if that was what it was. It wasn't but whatever.

But you lied....

*MP asks for me to tell him why I suspect him

Because anytime anyone brings you up, you use a combination of guilt and no u to combat it. You dismiss anything against you and just say that "you're trying to lynch a civ". You pick a specific part of the case, in my case that you dropped llama (for reasons no one but you and Matt can know), and explain it away. You ignore the rest and act like everyone is unfairly attacking you. Then, you suggest we look at pretty much anyone but you. But anyone who wants to look at you is trying to lynch a civv.

I never said I wanted to lynch you. I said I wanted to talk about you. I said I found you fishy. I've never voted for you.

But I have to vote now. And I'm voting for you. I am expressing explicit interest in Snow Dog and Lizzy, however.

He never said he wanted to lynch me... yet he VOTES for me? And he expresses explicit interest in both of them but not me?

He never even addresses why I'm bad... still. Why should he though? That's what timmer's job is for. I'm becoming more and more convinced that there's this strong baddie push to get me lynched, and then when I'm lynched, everyone will say, Oh, well, it made sense, MP could have been bad.

NO. I cannot be bad. Everything I've done in this game I've done with a civvie mindset because I have one, and for the civvies' best interests because they are what I have. Please don't be fooled by timmer's "case"; I do these ALL the time when I'm baddie. I can sniff out a manufactured one and this one feels very manufactured to me. I really can't say with 100% confidence that timmer is baddie, but this strategic move was enough to convince me that either I'm a threat and the baddies want me gone, I'm an easy target and they are feeling threatened, or they have figured out my role and want it gone. I suppose it could make sense to gleam my role based on some of my actions, namely my turnaround from llama. I didn't want to even say anything about it, but it seems to me someone has figured out some possibility for me to be a huge threat, otherwise there wouldn't be this huge push against me.

I welcome discussion of all players, even myself, Dom. But all the discussion of me has really just been how crafty of a baddie I am and what an awesome time I did in other games. So that means I'm being just as crafty here? Why? I'm not. I have NO idea of Mongoose and had none about Elo. Everyone knows that if I was on a baddie team with Elo, I would have not hesitated to have thrown her under the bus. As long as we're talking about other games since timmer seems intent on bringing that into part of his case, I always feel much more comfortable throwing suspicion onto my teammates in some manner than I do not mentioning them or defending them.

Also, Dom, you never brought up specific points against me that I can actually defend against. You just keep saying things like I'm using guilt and NO U. Totally untrue. Llama still brings me up as suspicious yet I clearly don't find him suspicious, do I? Others are the same way. I only find players who I believe to be twisting my words to be suspicious, and ONLY for that reason. My intentions should be clear.

[Tangrowth]

I really want to vote for timmer now, but I'm afraid of spreading the vote, especially now with this push against me and because I specifically won't be around to vote later or defend myself any further. I do feel more strongly about timmer than Lizzy though... and I have to finish getting ready really soon.

Please, everyone, if you have any doubt whatsoever about me, DON'T vote for me. It will be another nail in the coffin for the civvies. Just read my posts and make your own minds up. If I do die, I have to hand it to timmer, I actually thought for a bit there that I might not get lynched today, but apparently I'm just too sweet of a target to pass up.

I don't have the time right now to address every single quote that timmer pulls up, unfortunately, but they're all interpretations of my actions, and let's all remember where those can get us. They're all wrong. Every single thing I've posted has been completely my honest thoughts.

Please consider why I could have possibly made a turaround on llama. Matt F was able to figure it out because it affected both of us, but it can be discerned. Please consider why I feel the way I do about Devin, how I declared he was likely a civvie, and then he was subsequently killed. Think specifically about what he was hinting at. He was not lying. He knew he was going to survive a kill on a particular night. Even he said it. So what does that mean? Lest we forget, Elo, the only 100% baddie protector, is dead. Don't forget what Devin said about me. He was 95% sure I was civvie and we know each other really well. Go back and read why he said that. He was totally spot on. I've had such an insanely hectic two weeks and there's no way I could have manufactured all of my actions to be fake and that I seemed to be a frustrated civvie. He was right. Then he, my biggest defender, died. The baddies couldn't get me lynched before but now they're trying one last big push, and I suspect it's because they've figured me out. At least one civvie should be able to figure all of this out. Everyone should, in theory. I've laid all of my intentions completely out there. Each of my actions has a civvie explanation.

If you don't believe me, I don't know what else to say, other than I'll be disappointed if I come home to find that I'm dead, but it is what it is. If that's what it takes for other civvies to realize how the baddies have been sitting back this game and now are trying to take control, then so be it. I'd rather it not be me to have to prove that, but if it has to be, then vote for me.

[Tangrowth]

Sigh. This is a terrible spot to be in, truly. I'd rather vote for timmer, but I am tempted to give him another day because, if I somehow do live, I want to be able to address his points in full and I just can't do that right now because I have to leave to finish getting ready right NOW. And on the off chance he is somehow actually a civvie, I wouldn't want to condemn him so quickly. But I very, very strongly think he is not. I really think this is a baddie push against me.

I was going to vote Lizzy because before timmer's "case" against me, it seems likely for her to be a baddie (even though Trogdor seems less likely) and because I'm really afraid of spreading the vote today especially because I can't defend myself. Her voting record is bad and it could shed some light on AP as well.

But.... you know, what. I want to expose this shit as the manufactured BS it is. Guys, please join me in voting for timmer. I promise you there's a strong chance he will come up as baddie after all of this. I know for a fact that baddies must have been planning this in their BTSC, and seeing as Dom's push couldn't just quite get me there, they brought out the big guns. I'd be willing to bet on it.

I have to vote for whomever I think is most suspicious, and right now that is timmer. I can't give a baddie the BOTD if I really think they're baddie more than someone else, even though I'd rather more safely try to ensure my life... if I die, it is what it is, I guess, though it would be a huge loss.

I am voting timmer.

Here's why:

- He defended llama multiple times (look at his posts), then pops in and votes him yesterday.
- He defended me twice and then now manufactures this fake case against me.

I can't see how a civvie timmer would ever do this. I just can't see it. It's a last ditch effort to get me lynched and then say thereafter, "Oh, well, I guess I was wrong!!!" Which if I WAS a baddie, I would have done to llama. Trust me. If I was a baddie, I would have played totally different here. Don't let ANYONE convince you otherwise. This is so not my baddie game it's not even funny.

[Tangrowth]

If I do die, remember to look back at my posts and thoughts. Hopefully they will be of help to you. Keep an eye on those who voted for me and why they did so. Some might be misguided civvies, but some are certain to be baddies. I really hope this won't be the case because I feel I need to live longer to be of more help. But this will be my last post if I do die. I have to go now. Please try to consider every angle to everything and make up your own minds. And I want to say sorry to llama for suspecting you and to others if you feel as though I've guided you in a wrong direction. I've tried my best.

I just request that you PLEASE read all of my last few posts before making a vote. Thank you.

[Snow Dog]

Dom I object very much for saying i lied. i didn't lie as i already said and you ignored. I made a mistake.

[Matt]

MP, I've played with Dom quite a few times, and though I'm not positive, I think he's civvie (of course, I hope Dom doesn't turn around on me and say "Whut?!" since he questioned Bullz after Bullz said the same thing, but there it is).

Is there a reason other then him suspecting you, that you think he's mafia?

Just seems weird that you think Dom and Timmer are baddie partners, just cuz they both suspect you? Is there more to it then that, am I missing something?

Anyways, I'm tired, gotsta go to bed. Just a note, peeps, tomorrow's Friday, and as always, I work all weekend from Friday night to Sunday afternoon, so feel free to kill me sometime around then, A Person's team!

Linki - Snowdog, after our Smile War earlier, I am now thinking you are telling the truth...about not being a liar.

[birdwithteeth11]

Have to vote now. Caught up fairly quickly (lots of skimming), and I think my vote will be going to Lizzy today. I could definitely see her being a baddie, and possible teammate of AP.

Votes Lizzy

[Bullzeye]

Sorry for not being around yesterday, I was completely exhausted after spending all day volunteering and stuff. Going to catch up now.

[Mongoose]

Wow, Timmer thinks I'm...really stupid.

Leaning toward a DP vote today for Troggie potentials but haven't looked at the current poll results yet.

[juliets]

MP, I'm not trying to get you lynched today (I'm leaning toward DP or Lizzie) but I couldnt help but notice this:

Please don't be fooled by timmer's "case"; I do these ALL the time when I'm baddie. I can sniff out a manufactured one and this one feels very manufactured to me.

Isn't this exactly what you did in the case of llama and those of us you associated to llama? You admitted your case on llama was basically bs (I don't have the quote at hand but will go back through all your posts to find it if you don't remember saying it). It it also doesn't help that you decided on voting timmer after he said you were suspicious. It seems like a switcheroo.

Despite all this I'm going to hang on to the fact that you reversed yourself on llama and not vote for you at this point. As you said, your case had no merit and there was no reason to continue. I give you kudos on that. I don't think you need to say anymore about Matt regarding this issue.

So if you have time I'd like to know what you think about my first two items.

[thellama73]

I'm having a hard time imagining that Dom would be as aggressive as he is being towards myself and MP if he were bad. Not sure what to make of Timmer's sudden case against MP. It seems very different than what he said earlier.

[Lizzy]

I'm voting now because I'll be focusing on my reading and I might forget to do it later.

I assume I don't have to justify myself again since I'll be voting for Llama.

Also, seeing as this is finally my first ever lynching (it's pretty exciting, I must say), I would like to ask my future voters to vote for me because I'm in a baddie team, or in both at the same time, or my logic is carp, or whatever else you can think of, but not because I'm friggin' Trogdor. I like to think I would have been more responsible and have done a very decent job if I were him.

[Vompatti]

I randomized between the baddies and got Devin, but since he's not on the poll I'm voting for myself for reasons I'm not allowed to discuss.

[thellama73]

I randomized between the baddies and got Devin, but since he's not on the poll I'm voting for myself for reasons I'm not allowed to discuss.

Who else is on your list of baddies, if you don't mind me asking?

[Bullzeye]

People who think Devin is bad, am I also bad? Otherwise how do you get around the fact that he claimed to have rezzed me? I'm definitely civ, and no baddie would ever make a claim like that if it wasn't true, nor would they ever rez a civ like me. So it makes no sense for Devin to have been bad IMO.

[Vompatti]

I randomized between the baddies and got Devin, but since he's not on the poll I'm voting for myself for reasons I'm not allowed to discuss.

Who else is on your list of baddies, if you don't mind me asking?

I'm not sure anymore. I think my list might have been wrong.

[juliets]

llama I just read back on your post about gleam. I know I wrote off the thinking everyone had info as being a newbie and not understanding how these polls generally work. I didn't however think about he was the third person to admit having info and it would be extremely unlikely for him to be good if Snow Dog and Bullzeye are good. I could see going with a vote on him but I've still got Lizzie and DP in my mind.

llama, who are you going with by the way?

[juliets]

Lizzy -

Could you tell me what you meant by this (the underlined)? Apologies if you already explained it, just tell me and I'll go look for it.


Anyway, I've heard a wombat in distress, so here I am (rock you like a hurricane k).

And the bird's got a point: the stick is indeed a great meeting place, if you catch my drift.

[Mongoose]

I randomized between the baddies and got Devin, but since he's not on the poll I'm voting for myself for reasons I'm not allowed to discuss.

Who else is on your list of baddies, if you don't mind me asking?

I'm not sure anymore. I think my list might have been wrong.

Devin died, dude.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oi with the poodles already!

I'm going to vote DP. I feel her may be Trogdor and I feel he has been a little different this game.

DP, if it feels like I've voted for you a lot, I promise I don't have some weird vendetta against you. I think you are the bees knees and I promise never to say "Poop on a porcupine."

[Mongoose]

EBWOP: He not her.

[Leamiteo]

I still haven't caught up. Lots going on. At work and have to vote; voted for myself because I'm sooooo behind and at a loss. Sorry all!

[bea]

llama - I did get to re-read what you are saying about gleaming. You could be on to something. It's definitely worth into more. Gleam hasn't really posted much since then has he? I don't remember him sticking out in my head like at all. I do disagree with you that it's unlikely that 3 civs could have received info on the day 0 poll. I think my each baddie team, the indi, and then 3 separate civs got info on the day 0 poll makes more sense than any of the other wonky theories out there at the time. So his admitting to info alone isn't enough for me, but I get where you're going.

I'm sorry I didn't make it back last night, I went to lay down for my nap and my phone blew right the heck up with work issues. By the time that was sorted and I ate foodstuffs, I pretty much crashed and burned.

I honestly keep flipping back and forth about how I feel about MP. I can't tell if he's in defensive civ mode or defensive baddie mode.

I have to get my To Do list for the day together but I'm currently leaning on following Goosie with a DP vote. It would have made a lot of sense for trogar to pick the hut that they targeted since they can't self target.

I'll give it a bit to brew in my head then I shall return.

[thellama73]

llama, who are you going with by the way?

Good question. I'm hesitant to split the vote any further at this point. I think I'll wait and see how a few other voters come in just to see if there is a last minute effort to save Lizzy.

[juliets]

I'm going to go with Lizzie today but not because I think she's trog. I'm still looking at DP possibly being Trog. I think Lizzie is bad.