Homestar Runner [Day 13]

[Mongoose]

da Goose - Fuel in Finland what? Is that a code? Should I be examining this post for clues?

It's just a little playful nudge at Vomps because he always says "X is expensive in Finland."

[Dom]

I think we should continue to vote MP. Especially since he continues to dismiss any and all suspicion of him by just saying "You're bad". I have no reason to think he is civvie and him dismissing everyone because they disagree with him is basically a big NO U.

Sad to see I was wrong about Lizzy.

Alright Mongoose, well, my head hurts. I'm gonna go watch some more Supernatural, and hope Vomps doesn't find my address, come to my house, and murder me.

Well if you're watching Supernatural there's probably an equal chance that it'll be the vengeful spirit of Lizzy who comes for you!

Alright Mongoose, well, my head hurts. I'm gonna go watch some more Supernatural, and hope Vomps doesn't find my address, come to my house, and murder me.

Well if you're watching Supernatural there's probably an equal chance that it'll be the vengeful spirit of Lizzy who comes for you!

Just watched Route 666 last night. Killer truck. Worst episode ever. I certainly hope the truck doesn't become a main player in later seasons.

Oh yeah, the racist truck is a key figure in stopping the apocalypse! Seriously though I think just about everyone shares your sentiments there, it's not one of their better ideas.

Better than the Leviathans if you ask me.

But season one has some of my favorite episodes.

[Tangrowth]

timmer, first off, I said I didn't have TIME to respond to your case. I barely had enough time to even post what I did this morning, and even then I left later than I wanted to (but still arrived in time). I said I would respond to it, assuming I lived. So I will do that shortly in its own post.

But first, other things.

RIP Lizzy. That sucks majorly.

I'm not sure it necessarily exonerates AP though. But I'm not sure on him at all regardless.

MP, I've played with Dom quite a few times, and though I'm not positive, I think he's civvie (of course, I hope Dom doesn't turn around on me and say "Whut?!" since he questioned Bullz after Bullz said the same thing, but there it is).

Is there a reason other then him suspecting you, that you think he's mafia?

Just seems weird that you think Dom and Timmer are baddie partners, just cuz they both suspect you? Is there more to it then that, am I missing something?

Anyways, I'm tired, gotsta go to bed. Just a note, peeps, tomorrow's Friday, and as always, I work all weekend from Friday night to Sunday afternoon, so feel free to kill me sometime around then, A Person's team!

Linki - Snowdog, after our Smile War earlier, I am now thinking you are telling the truth...about not being a liar.

I actually am not too sure about Dom being civvie or baddie, but I am feeling timmer still is. I was definitely caught in the heat of the moment and totally expected a showdown between me and timmer today, not at all what the votes ended up being. So I have cooled off some. I am trying to consider that either or both could be civvie... but I don't know. Dom can be hard to read. timmer's behavior still really bothers me.

MP, I'm not trying to get you lynched today (I'm leaning toward DP or Lizzie) but I couldnt help but notice this:

Please don't be fooled by timmer's "case"; I do these ALL the time when I'm baddie. I can sniff out a manufactured one and this one feels very manufactured to me.

Isn't this exactly what you did in the case of llama and those of us you associated to llama? You admitted your case on llama was basically bs (I don't have the quote at hand but will go back through all your posts to find it if you don't remember saying it). It it also doesn't help that you decided on voting timmer after he said you were suspicious. It seems like a switcheroo.

Despite all this I'm going to hang on to the fact that you reversed yourself on llama and not vote for you at this point. As you said, your case had no merit and there was no reason to continue. I give you kudos on that. I don't think you need to say anymore about Matt regarding this issue.

So if you have time I'd like to know what you think about my first two items.

I didn't manufacture a fake case against llama; it was what I sincerely believed. I realize timmer could be a civvie and that is what he sincerely believes, so I am trying to take that into consideration, but you have to imagine how I felt reading all of that when I waltzed in the thread this morning and was in a rush to make my vote decision and respond to all of the accusations. It very much felt like the entire tide of the thread was soon to be against me.

That said, I didn't build a case on llama quite like timmer is building on me. I didn't do my fancy old pulling quotes and all of that stuff. But yes, I did build a case against llama, and I did it out of... I don't know, shortsidedness, or dare I say it, rash stupidity. I'll be the first to admit that.

It is possible timmer is just very wrong about me, but I am not so sure. What bugged me so much about it was how timmer had such a turnaround and as such it felt especially fake to me. I suppose it helps make it feel fake considering that I know it all to be incorrect as well.

Also, it is NOT a switcheroo. Lest you forget, I actually discussed timmer with llama before timmer even came back from vacation. I said he seemed suspicious due to his most recent vote for llama, but that I was holding final judgment to see what he would post. I said that specifically because I had a feeling he might come in the thread and try to railroad me, but I didn't want to say that at the time as it would have defeated the purpose of my speculation. I needed to see what he'd do.

Then he came in the thread and gunned against me HARD. And Devin was killed last night. Just cannot be a coincidence in my mind.

Ok, I still had to skip over 4 pages, but I think I got the gist of the debates.
As llama so nicely summarized, I am probably nowhere near the most insightful player (no offense taken). Please don't discount me though on the basis of my low vision. Honestly, I just have had little time, becuase I just moved. I'm sore, tired, and getting used to renting a room in someone else's house (awkward and time-consuming). I'm hoping I can be more regular and hang on until I can be more useful.

On that note, here's a summary of my thoughts:
Part of the reason I may be less useful is that I am too overwhelmed to present exact evidence from quoting posts, so this will be general.
I may be as dumb as a brick mafia-wise, but I still cannot get over the whole llama/MP thing. One or both of them is bad. So to the couple of you who think you're alone, you're not. They've just exhausted the conversation so much that it feels ridiculous to contiinue... which is obviously to their advantage and makes looking at everyone else seem less suspicious. And yes, I do find the sudden cease fire too convenient, like others have suggested. Given the possibility that only one is bad, it looks worse for MP, because llama seemed clueless when Matt F tried to confirm whatever guess he made. Of course, if llama was acting clueless but was really playing along, MP could really be just fooled. Either way, something underhanded was going on there on someone's part. It may be way too obvious a move for a baddie, but this also doesn't rule out Matt F playing along with someone to be the supposedly mistaken suggester again.

Anyway, my next suggestions are much less obvious and fall into the potential baddie-side-kick categories. But again, I would have to dig up more exact evidence to make these cases sure in my mind. I felt a little suspicious of Juliets for a long time, but I put it on hold and the evidence is stale (I would have to look back). And, possibly since I just am not good a letting go of an idea, I still withhold exoneration from Mongoose. Basically, after the early wacky theories (which mean nothing on their own) and the apparent jump to blanket immunity for a bunch of poeple listed on the animal sanctuary, I just still keep my eye on her. Like I said, I guess I just don't let go.

Sorry if I'm not more helpful (although, I have to admit that all the dismissing of the kinds of things that I was affirming and the saying that I'm not helpful only adds to my suspicion of said llama and others...).

Oh, and, all that being explained, I am going to continue with my lines of thinking this whole game and vote for MP.

You're wrong. I am civvie and I believe llama is also a civvie.

Did you read my four posts I posted before I thought I might die? If not, it's OK, just be sure to read those.

RIP Lizzy, it is apparent to me I should just stop talking in this game. Thus far, my only real contribution in this game has been Day 1, when I got lucky voting Elo.

I've tried real hard to be helpful, but that isn't happening.

Just a note, btw, before I said I had a role pegged for Devin. I thought he was King of Town. I can't know for sure, but since King of Town eats an object each night, I figured that meant he got a different power each night. Devin said he rezzed Bullz, and at one point, cleared Snowdog of any wrongdoing, saying he was civvie. Because of this, I figured Devin got a rez power and Devin got a rolecheck power on different nights as King of Town.

But, now I see I was wrong on that too.

linki Llama - He is wrong about me too but just doesn't know it yet.
Derp.

Let's chat about this together -- I think you are right that Lizzy could have had a rez power one night. However, I am not sure poor Dev is exonerated yet. We know he isn't a Blue Laser (since he was killed by them), but it doesn't mean he wasn't a Teen Girl.

And Dev could have been falsely insinuating his roles to prove his civvyness. I think you are probably on the right track with a lot of this, but we should be careful about assuming too much or taking statements as facts when they may not be.

I'm curious as to what role MP had Devin pegged for. And Llama, didn't you believe Devin was civvie?

Goose, is it possible Lizzy also had a rolecheck and checked DP?

DERP I'M GONNA STOP RIGHT THERE

I'm like a dog with a bone, with the tunnel vision, and I just said I was going to stop with theories. I dunno.

I do/did not have Devin pegged as King of Town, for the record. It actually surprised me to read that you did, but I suppose it makes sense how you came to that conclusion. I will not out Devin, but I'm pretty sure the role I have/had him pegged as is correct.

Now to respond to timmer...

Linki with Dom: You're wrong, that's why you should NOT continue voting for me. The fact that you refuse to even consider you're wrong is continually bothersome. I've been in defensive mode ALL GAME and you still have not even explained why other than just that I'm apparently NO U'ing and whatever. You also never responded to my questions in an earlier post asking you how your assessment was fair.

[Tangrowth]

Alright, timmer. My responses are purple-ish whatever that is. Though I'm not sure you'll believe me so I don't know why I even tried, especially since your case is all interpretations of my intentions (I suppose this is karma punishing me for my case against llama).

okay, holy shit, Page 2 = so much words!

First off, page 2's development with Snow Dog admitting to getting some info when castle won puts a slightly different spin on the stick voters from page 1. if, as he said, he needed his option to win but didn't have to actually vote for it, then any number of voters of other options may have seen that their option was winning and just parked their votes whereever. thus, no real help from page 1.

second though, and this is the big thing I pulled from page 2, is that constant barrage of posts about theories around the number 6. MP7, in particular, posted a TON, as did Mongoose who I do not trust, and Elohcin who was bad. So did Hedgeowl and thellama but they were not so much pushing the banter as commenting on it from the side, if that makes sense. I got a distinct sense of MP7 trying to post a lot here. Now, MP7 has posted a lot all game from what i can see, but it all accelerated right at a key point. What I look for is, did someone just say something they want to hide or push off of the page? I have my games set to have 100 posts per page, but i know a lot of people have it way less, so posts disappear for them faster.

Why do you not trust Mongoose?

Here's the twopart punch that precedes Mongoose, Elohcin and MP7 going nuts about theories about the number 6:

Thanks for the birthday wishes!!

Daisy: Are we allowed to discuss anything pertaining to the Day 0 poll results (or possible lack thereof) of which we may be aware?

All I want to say regarding the matter is that I had no information on the poll, and thus it did not factor into my decision, and I have not received any benefit at all from voting Castle. It seems, based on the fact that Daisy's only post was the answering machine one, that there is no publicly-made result of the Day 0 poll either.

Given Daisy said "those with info may not reveal what they were told", that makes me wonder. There had to be some outcome of the poll; I just have absolutely no idea what it was. I was kind of hoping voting Castle would allot me to receive something, but nothing happened.

I thus am not sure what to conclude.

Those two posts don't fit together right.

in the first one, MP seems to be asking a straight-up question, but the syntax of it suggests subtly that he got info. in the second post, after SD says yes, people can say they got info but not what, suddenly MP is crystal clear that he did not get anything. It doesn't fit right. I think MP maybe expected SD to say no, people CANNOT talk about the poll, period, and then he could sort of suggest subtly that he knew something, but suddenly, anything he said could be a misstep and he pulled back from it hard.

You're reading too much into my post or something. I did not have info on Day 0.

this is important to me, because of the three people who led the "number 6" theory talk, one is bad, the other I THINK is bad, and the third id mp7 whose posts above smell funky. Mp7 is the creator of the parchment, people. He loves making up crazy shit and manipulating a thread when he is bad.

Just because I lied my ass off in another game doesn't mean I'm doing it here. You're right, I do love doing that. But I'm merely speculating here. There's nothing nefarious about it. (Not sure what else to say regarding the matter, sorry, either you believe me or you don't.)

and a bit of a demonstration of how mongoose seems fishy as well:

RE: The newest video (Marzipan's Answering Machine). This video shows Marzipan having 6 messages. I checked other answering machine videos, and they all start with different numbers of messages left on the answering machine. I think we need to analyze with this particular video was left for us.

I have a few theories:

• * We must all make at least 6 posts today or something untoward will happen
  
  * Up to 6 of us will be chosen to leave a message for Marzipan (although we can kind of do that in the chat already by saying "Dear Marzipan...") but maybe this will be 6 PMs that the host sends to only Marzipan.
  
  * To show Strongsad digs Marzipan (I guess we know at least one person doesn't have a nut allergy, har har) , but he is rather incompetent about executing this.
  
  * The (almond) cake is a lie. The video means nothing other than ambiance.
  
  * Other?

That said, I think we should all try to make at least 6 posts today of substance. I wouldn't think they would need to be very long, but probably have some on-topic goodness in there. What do you all think?

linki - lotsa MP

really? that's filler.

I actually agree it was silly filler. I even said so,.

Also, thellama comes off as civ on this page. i like posts like this:

Agreed. I don't want to be seen as squashing discussion, but I find all this off the wall hypothesizing by Elohcin and Mongoose as suspicious, like they are trying to distract us from the baddie hunt.

And then back to MP7. If, we assume that a baddie would not be the first person to speak up about getting info, and we also assume that certain key roles would be obvious choices for getting info, the last thing a civ wants to do is get the guy who admitted to getting info to talk about it. At all. Like, to me, the best thing to do is leave the guy alone, otherwise you get people thinking about it and you paint a target. but instead MP7 posts this:

OK. I had info

Yes, an interesting development at last! Thank you for sharing.

Now you voted for Castle. Let's make a set of assumptions on your behalf. Assume that my intentions are exactly as I have laid them out to be. I do not expect you to assume them to be; mafia is about skepticism, I would be shocked if you trusted me, especially so early on. But let's assume I'm being entirely truthful. I had absolutely no information, voted for Castle, and yet nothing happened, yet I claim to be on the civvie cause. Others have said the same (thellama73 and Mongoose both seem to follow this as well; speak up, either of you, if I am wrong here).

Now, please, without discussing whether you received anything as a result of voting Castle, and I'm going to assume you voted the option that best seemed to suit your interests because that is only logical to assume, can you perhaps elucidate as to whether you believe the six options corresponded to anything regarding alignment; OR do you think my theory regarding six different players receiving a corresponding 'option' that benefited directly only them (but by extension, also the other players who share their alignment) to be a possible explanation for what occurred; OR do you think neither of those is true and we're seeing something entirely different?

This feels like MP was trying to get something out of Snow Dog that would give him a clue to his role. He's fishing.

Not true at all. I was trying to figure out what the hell the Day 0 poll was about.

I'll close this page with a comment pulling it all together. Elohcin was a Teen Girl Squad member. If I'm right about Mongoose and MP7, I think there is a good chance from page 2 that they are as well. And their first kill, on night 2, failed it seems since only a trogdor kill was in the night post. Wild theory time: they tried to kill snow dog but it failed because smart people realized the heavy chance that he is a civ.

Christ, just an addendum. I'm frantically trying to reread and catch up in two games, and I'm getting them a bit crossed. I've got Mongoose penciled in as a baddie in the OTHER game I'm in, not this one. Mainly, from page 2, I get the sense of MP7 being bad, with Mongoose a possible baddie as well, but MP7 is much more the dominant figure there. my perception of Mongoose was getting coloured by my opinion from the other game. I stand by what I wrote, though, I think Mongoose could be bad here, but MP7 is more sure (so far, this is after all only page 2 of 19)

Could you consider that the ties you are making between Mongoose and myself to be incorrect? Also, a question for you: If Mongoose is civ, does that change your evaluation of me or not?

[Tangrowth]

Okay, here are thoughts from page 3 of 19. (Keep in mind this is still day 1, and no one has voted yet, from what I can see)

First, I get civ vibes, as of this point, from BDH, thellama, Snow Dog, BWT, Matahari and Hedgeowl.

Why? Care to elaborate?

Second, to me it seemed pretty clear that Snow Dog was just having some difficulty explaining himself about info, but that he and bullz were essentially saying the same thing.

Agreed.

Third, MP7. Reading through chronologically gives an interesting sense of time. When people were first confused about Snow Dog, MP got a bit excited and sort of quietly threw the idea out there that snow Dog maybe was bad and could be a lynch target. but chronologically it is easy to see that the idea of lynching Snow Dog, or even that he was lying was a non-starter and MP expertly reined himself back and over to the pro-Snow Dog side with aplomb.

Posts of note (some trimmed to keep this post as short as possible):

Either way, I want to hear more from Snow Dog and Bullzeye, if necessary, and I even more so want to hear from other players regarding whether they did or did not have information.

Sorry MP, you can't tell me the danger of requesting info hadn't occurred to you.

I didn't, actually, because I didn't consider that it would out anyone until llama proposed what would become the 6-tiered theory (which ended up being total crap).

Bullzeye, I agree entirely. I'm still a bit hesitant because I'm not sure if it's because Snow Dog just misrepresented what he was saying, but it seems it could be damning.

I agree. Looking back at Snow Dog's posts, it's a ballsy move... but one that I think he would consider doing as a baddie. I'm very intrigued by this development.

Llama, you know Snowie well, is there anything you can think of that would clear him or is it perhaps that we misunderstood his posts and he wasn't clear enough? This wouldn't be the first time I would see Snow Dog lynched for unclear wording or for people misunderstanding what he was trying to say.

That being said, we could have come upon a scenario where Snow Dog is definitively baddie, and as such, I'm thinking maybe we should all just vote for him today and go from there.

Here MP even acknowledges that Snow Dog has struggles with English but still promotes the lynch idea heavily within the same post.

But I changed my mind.

I looked back at Snow Dog's posts and read them all in order, and it seems there is a misunderstanding regarding the word "info". I think I get it now.

I'm not so sure he's a baddie caught in a lie. He could be... but I think he's telling the truth, assuming Bullzeye is. Not sure it means both are civvie... but I hesitate.

As such, I think it would be fruitful to avoid lynching Snow Dog or Bullzeye, because if we lynched one of them and they came up King of Town and Strong Sad, we'd have a double edged sword. We could propose that certain players could be certain roles based on this information, but so could the baddies.

The very fact that this could actually be exactly what happened scares me but also is very thrilling.

I don't think I want to lynch Snow Dog or Bullzeye today.

I don't buy any of this. I think MP tried to get something going and then reversed course when no one bit.

Wrong.

Now here MP started being very "hey everyone let's be quiet about the info, everyone be quiet!" but then Eloh posted this:

About the info, I think the whole thing about 6 players getting info as there were 6 options would be logical if Snowy hadn't received info *before* the pole. It would be nice if everyone who had info would let us know they had it and whether they received it before or after Day 0 poll ended, or both. We could put a list together of who had info and when and what option they voted for. Thank you SnowDog for giving us what you could

MP then posted after this, big posts, replying to several people but not saying a word in reply to this. And then, afterwards, posted this to Elohcin:

One last post because I happened to see it.

Elohcin: Catch up before posting again.

That's it? You've fully come around to the logical stance that discussing info is a baddie-favouring move and Eloh wants to make freaking LISTS and all you say is... catch up? If MP is a civ here, he'd be all over Elohcin for that. Or at least say more. This reinforces the idea of them being teamies.

I honestly found her post pingy; I just was telling her to catch up because she very obviously hadn't seen my opinion; either that or she was pulling some shit. I figured the former, and I was wrong. And you very well know that if I were her baddie teammate, I'd be all over that.

And finally kudos to mata for this:

Trying to catch up-
first, happy bday Alex! My bro's bday is also the third, his daughter on the fourth, my sis in law the sixth, mine the seventh, and to make a long story longer, we have 12 bdays from mid July to mid August. All the celebrating is in my tiny apt. because someone has to be with my dad all the time. So it's her, or else I miss out on family fun. And cake.

So anyway, I'm in three games now and trying to keep up. I noticed that elohcin and mongoose were talking about the possibility of the number 6 person on the poll needing to be voted, although I don't agree that a host would ever out a player, I didn't think they were necessarily pushing it. But later mongoose posted this:

linki - MP: Yeah, I threw out something a little crazy, and then you brought it around to something more sensible. Eloh and I were just kinda thinking aloud. Maybe you or someone else would have taken that "illogical" reasoning and tweaked it or added to it to achieve something more cogent.

This also might not mean anything but I am wondering how mongoose can be sure of what elohcin meant.

I hadn't even caught this as I read it. That post DOES sound like there is a suggestion of BTSC. I'm holding still to the Mongoose as a possible baddie idea here.

[Tangrowth]

Okay, Page 4 out of 19.

First off, (and this shows how out of touch I've been), Alex, my condolences on your loss, that's terrible news.

Thank you, I appreciate it.

Next, that obviously being kept apart, I see Alex as having expertly used a "poor me" tone (before his bad news, to be clear, here) to bring up early deaths in past games to save his ass here. I'm more convinced with each page that he is bad, so far.

Do you realize just how often I get suspected and die in every game any more? Truly? How does my stating that make me bad? Clearly it hasn't cleared me of attention.

Also, I'll add Leamiteo to the list of seemingly civ players. Especially with posts like this:

And another thing on the fishiness of MP wanting conversation to stop, if he is indeed a baddie and baddies have BTSC, then he knows the other baddies that had info. Assuming this, could it be that he was wanting to see who else got the info, other than the baddies? And he was intrigued by the two different methods.

Rule #1, for the new kids, when you're a baddie and you need to defend yourself against a decent case, is to find the one little part of it that is easiest to defend and then defend ONLY that as hard as you can. Thus, trough all of Alex's posts on page 4, there is not one mention by him of how he pushes for info and then pushes for NO info. not directly. But, since a couple of players had mentioned how he seemed controlling, he posted a TON about that. A representative defensive post:

And Elo, I'm very sorry you found me as rude, but I never had any intention of coming off as such. You just had clearly not caught up by the time you posted, as you were asking for other people to share their info (or maybe you had and just disagreed with me... which is fine), and so I spoke out of urgency because I did not want to contribute to the potential outing of civvies. Regardless of what anyone thinks of my hackbrained theory... on the off chance it actually is true and at some point we lynch a player who would be outed in the off chance that it is true, it only possibly confirms everything, which only helps the baddies more than it does us.

But anyway, I apologize for that. I suppose I know better now to "control" the thread. Maybe I should have just spent hours on my Sunday studying instead and not bothering actually contributing, like other 'helpful' civvies who will last until Day 10 because they follow the crowd and don't put themselves out there.

It's all about the controlling piece, but nothing about the info/no info piece. He never mentions the flipflop.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.

A sort of aside:

MP. I find it incredibly hard to believe that an experienced player like you would ask for people to say if they got info and then when he got answers remembered that it wasn't a good idea to admit to info after all!
I stuck my head out to assist the civvies, as did Bullz and now others ar5e told not to do the same. I feel like I've been hung out to dry to be honest.

You were, Snow. You totally were.

You are wrong, timmer. You totally are.

And finally, Rule #2 in defending yourself is to get your teammates to talk about the specifics that you want to avoid talking about specifically yourself. Let's bring up Mongoose again:

LOL, you should know I don't do this as baddie. I love being the guy to bring EVERYTHING up. I actually hate doing that.

I know a lot of players have expressed concern at what they call MP's "flipflop," but I didn't read it like that. I think 1) some of us were uneasy about talking specifics of the information game ab initio and 2) he had a lightbulb moment when we all started putting tangible theories together and realized how dangerous it was to keep following that line of questioning.

I don't mean to sound like a politician, but for me, it's not changing your mind if you receive more information (and this can come in the form of having an epiphany based on what facts you have at your disposal).

I really don't think an MP vote today would be prudent.

Is that not a teammate? I think it is. I am very comfortable, as of page 4, in thinking that mp7 and Mongoose are Eloh's teamies.

with that, I'm heading to bed. I'll continue on tomorrow.

[Tangrowth]

Voted MP.

Guys, you should frankly disregard every post I made while out on vacation. I was never able to get enough wifi to read more than one page before I lost my connections. I was never able to get a good read on people at all. I barely knew anything. My posts, as of last night, represent me joining this game for the first time, so yes there might be some contradictory things between my posts now and the mixed up handful of posts earlier.

Note though, what MP did. He did address a single thing i said in my case against him last night. Not one thing. He went back and found my earlier posts from when he knew I wasn't in the game really and found contradictions between them and now. He NEVER directly commented on my case.

Why would you even post all of that then if you were so unsure and barely knew anything? Why say I was just being suspected for being posty? Why not just say that you were on vacation and barely knew anything?

Also, I even specifically said why I didn't have time to go through and address your case. Plus, nearly all of it is just interpretations. Now that I have responded to it, it's basically just "You're wrong." or "You're interpreting this incorrectly." What else do you actually have for me to defend against?

Remember rule #1, kids.

MP is bad, I'll stake my reputation on it.

Bring it, bitch.

Sad to say you'll be losing your epic reputation over something so trivial. You also have to put "I can never read MP and refuse to crusade him as baddie with absolute certainty ever again" in your signature.

[Tangrowth]

Also, I should have put after my bring it, bitch. Obviously I mean no offense, timmer, lol, but jut wanted to say so in case you thought I was being rude. It's a term of endearment! Actually, also competitive spirit. You and I have a mafia relationship that goes way back. That's why I feel comfortable engaging you like that.

With that, I am out of here. Busy weekend ahead of me.

[Dom]

Linki with Dom: You're wrong, that's why you should NOT continue voting for me. The fact that you refuse to even consider you're wrong is continually bothersome. I've been in defensive mode ALL GAME and you still have not even explained why other than just that I'm apparently NO U'ing and whatever. You also never responded to my questions in an earlier post asking you how your assessment was fair.

"You shouldn't vote me because I'm civvie!"

That's what you're saying.

I HAVE explained. I have said that it's strange that you won't address real questions to you (see Juliets who asked why it's okay for you to build a bullshit case on llama but not for timmer to suspect you). I think you're lashing out at people who question your motives rather than explain them and just assume that everyone thinks you're civvie. I explained this earlier, but you all but ignored it and said, "I'm not NO-Uing you might be bad"

This is not the MP I know.


Also, my wifi went down while catching up last time, so if I missed a post by you, please let me know.

[thellama73]

I feel like I need to hear more from MP today. He has been so quiet that it's hard to get any kind of read on him at all. If only he would stop by and make four or five or six incredibly long posts in a row.

(See how I used the right color, SVS?)

[birdwithteeth11]

RIP Lizzy! I can't believe I was wrong again!

Sorry I didn't post at all today either. I kept up but today was a very sucky day. I had a 9 hour meeting with work where a lot of the very higher-ups in corporate came in and gave talks, which was cool. But I also broke up with my girlfriend of what would have been a year and a half tomorrow. And I was the one who had to do it so of course part of me feels a bit like the bad guy. But I think long story short, we weren't meant for each other in terms of a long-term relationship. So we will both end up being okay, but right now it's kind of blah.

Idk if I'll be able to post any tomorrow, because I have work and then I'm helping to move my brother back down to school. And then tomorrow night is going over to a friend's house, so I might not get around to it until sometime on Sunday. I will try to pop in if I can though.

[Mongoose]

I feel like I need to hear more from MP today. He has been so quiet that it's hard to get any kind of read on him at all. If only he would stop by and make four or five or six incredibly long posts in a row.

(See how I used the right color, SVS?)

You don't even know how many times I thought about making this same joke. I even wrote it out and then deleted it.

[Mongoose]

RIP Lizzy! I can't believe I was wrong again!

Sorry I didn't post at all today either. I kept up but today was a very sucky day. I had a 9 hour meeting with work where a lot of the very higher-ups in corporate came in and gave talks, which was cool. But I also broke up with my girlfriend of what would have been a year and a half tomorrow. And I was the one who had to do it so of course part of me feels a bit like the bad guy. But I think long story short, we weren't meant for each other in terms of a long-term relationship. So we will both end up being okay, but right now it's kind of blah.

Idk if I'll be able to post any tomorrow, because I have work and then I'm helping to move my brother back down to school. And then tomorrow night is going over to a friend's house, so I might not get around to it until sometime on Sunday. I will try to pop in if I can though.

I am so sorry to hear that? Would you like some eggs?

Stay busy, my friend! Good on you for not dragging her along. I'm sure you were very diplomatic.

[timmer]

So I've now read thru Page 5 out 20, which almost exactly takes me to the end of Day 1.

First off, based on their votes in the lynch, i think it is safe to say that none of Kate, juliets, or reywaS are/were Teen girl mafia. The only suspicious vote that came thru was Hedgeowl's, which tied the poll up between Elohcin and Vomps right near the end, but she was civ, so really, the Day 1 lynch just seems like a miracle. A baddie lynched on very little (most people just didn't like the way she randomized?) and no apparent side action to save her. I'll bet her team was stunned at what had happened!

So at the end of the Day 1 readthrough, I've got baddie feels from MP7 which aren't helped by his responses today (he never responded to any of my accusations or comments but instead pulled posts from when he knows I was barely following the game to try to find contradictions in what I had said. Civs respond to accusations. Baddies redirect to make someone look bad for speaking up)

Hopefully I'll get through all of Day 2 tonight.

[Captain Bunny Killer]

Yeah, so, that didn't really help your cause in my mind, MP.

Did anyone else notice the contradictions here?

I didn't manufacture a fake case against llama; it was what I sincerely believed....

That said, I didn't build a case on llama quite like timmer is building on me. I didn't do my fancy old pulling quotes and all of that stuff. But yes, I did build a case against llama, and I did it out of... I don't know, shortsidedness, or dare I say it, rash stupidity. I'll be the first to admit that.

It is possible timmer is just very wrong about me, but I am not so sure. What bugged me so much about it was how timmer had such a turnaround and as such it felt especially fake to me. I suppose it helps make it feel fake considering that I know it all to be incorrect as well.

Also, it is NOT a switcheroo. Lest you forget, I actually discussed timmer with llama before timmer even came back from vacation. I said he seemed suspicious due to his most recent vote for llama, but that I was holding final judgment to see what he would post. I said that specifically because I had a feeling he might come in the thread and try to railroad me, but I didn't want to say that at the time as it would have defeated the purpose of my speculation. I needed to see what he'd do.

Then he came in the thread and gunned against me HARD. And Devin was killed last night. Just cannot be a coincidence in my mind.

One minute you say you sincerely believed your case against llama. The next minute it was rash and stupid. Yet you suspect timmer because a sudden flip seemed fake? I seem to recall that your words directly after your sudden change of heart about llama were "I knew it sucked balls." Yeah, gross. And so telling.

And the whole paragraph about a switcheroo sounds strikingly like a baddie not copletely committing while preparing a defense beforehand.

And, yes, I will go back for your other posts. I apologize if I missed something there.

And, as a funny sidenote, the lady I rent from has family from France staying with her right now, and I found myself reading the whole thread in a French accent in my head. It's pretty great.

[borokkuei]

Nooooo, my big work weekend is about to start.

Borok - How do I want Llama dead? I feel like posting the Chewbacca Defense again. I will probably vote for you or DP next day period.

Chewbacca defense?

Maybe I'm making up things in my mind, but I seem to remember you being after llama for a while. I'm too tired to go back and be sure, but I'll take your word for it if you say I'm wrong.

[BigDamnHero]

That's a HORRIBLE result from the lynch...horrible but somehwat telling. Like a few others have previously said, I was working under the theory that Devin was the King...so either he was full of poo and gambled that no one would call him out on the revival ability or...or...ok I can't think of any other reason why he would claim he rezzed Bullzeye. Kind of makes me wonder about Bullzeye's affiliation to be honest...

Gotta eat then time for more catch-up....mmmmm, ketchup!

[thellama73]

I'm not buying what CBK is selling.

[Mongoose]

That's a HORRIBLE result from the lynch...horrible but somehwat telling. Like a few others have previously said, I was working under the theory that Devin was the King...so either he was full of poo and gambled that no one would call him out on the revival ability or...or...ok I can't think of any other reason why he would claim he rezzed Bullzeye. Kind of makes me wonder about Bullzeye's affiliation to be honest...

Gotta eat then time for more catch-up....mmmmm, ketchup!

Me too! I'm still curious how others are so certain he's civvy-McRibby

[Dom]

I'm not buying what CBK is selling.

why

[thellama73]

I'm not buying what CBK is selling.

why

Because the post by MP she cites doesn't contain the inconsistencies she claims it does.

[Mongoose]

I'm not buying what CBK is selling.

why

Because the post by MP she cites doesn't contain the inconsistencies she claims it does.

I really want to make a Watergate reference, but I'm too tired to think of one, so just assume I did and it was brill.

[thellama73]

I'm not buying what CBK is selling.

why

Because the post by MP she cites doesn't contain the inconsistencies she claims it does.

Hilarious Watergate reference.

[Matt]

RIP Lizzy, it is apparent to me I should just stop talking in this game. Thus far, my only real contribution in this game has been Day 1, when I got lucky voting Elo.

I've tried real hard to be helpful, but that isn't happening.

Just a note, btw, before I said I had a role pegged for Devin. I thought he was King of Town. I can't know for sure, but since King of Town eats an object each night, I figured that meant he got a different power each night. Devin said he rezzed Bullz, and at one point, cleared Snowdog of any wrongdoing, saying he was civvie. Because of this, I figured Devin got a rez power and Devin got a rolecheck power on different nights as King of Town.

But, now I see I was wrong on that too.

linki Llama - He is wrong about me too but just doesn't know it yet.
Derp.

This is Goose's quote of mine earlier. I did not have that line in bold in my OP.

I can see that maybe it was supposed to be part of your post, but why is it in between my line about being wrong and me saying derp?

Gaah! Crazy...theories...building...in...head...must...STOP!

Gaah!

[Matt]

Why does Llama want to kill Daisy's sister? Does Llama think MP is civvie now?

FYI Goose, I reread my above post, and it didn't come across as I thought it would, which was jokey. No need to explain.

[thellama73]

Why does Llama want to kill Daisy's sister? Does Llama think MP is civvie now?

It's not that I think MP is necessarily civ, although I am increasingly leaning that way, but rather that I think CBK's attack makes no sense.

[BigDamnHero]

I don't even know where to begin anymore...(or should I say continue because I'm sure we ALL know where my badd guy thoughts begin and end at this point)...I've got the strong sense that we are being masterfully manipulated by a very coordinated and expert team of bad guys. I just can't figure out who is aiding MP in pulling the wool over our eyes and who may just be oblivious to the true danger that he is. Also for the record, I strongly believe MP is the cheerlaeder making him unlynchable which is why he has been so openly flambouant with his ludicrously long posts. He has a sort of safety net in that he can practically say anything he wants knwoing that any turn in the tide against him won't result in him being lynched. Putting myself out there like this definitely makes me a target for the Team Girl squad tonight, and should they use their night kill to off me, I'd like it to be known that my last wish is for MP to go down the next day if only to prove that my theory is correct and give the civilians a fighting chance.

Also, drinking and playing this game are not conducive to one another so I'm going to bed.

[Matt]

For the record, if the Girlies kill me tonight, I wouldn't know who to blame.

Kind of wishing I didn't announce in the thread that I had a one time night protect only. Lasers, Girlies, and Troggy, I was lying! I am protected always! Don't do it! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Btw, BDH, you're funny when drinking. I suggest you do it more often.

[timmer]

Why would you even post all of that then if you were so unsure and barely knew anything? Why say I was just being suspected for being posty? Why not just say that you were on vacation and barely knew anything?

I did mention i was on vacation, several times. And in a very limited read of the game, at one point it did seem like you were getting heat for being post-y, so I mentioned the fact (that you've admitted) that you've been knocked out of games for being wordy before. There are a lot of people in this game i don't know so I figured it was good to mention it. But now, with the ability to properly read back through every post in the game, I've read your posts properly and they actually on Day 1 sounded like you made a slip and then tried to cover it (with some help) with talk of theories.

I was attempting to keep current as best I could, but the wifi out there was horrible. I didn't want to have to bow out, I can't stand doing that to hosts, so i tried my best to stay in. But dude, you built your entire reason for voting against me on two things (correct me if I'm wrong). That my case against you contradicted that one post where I said you get heat for being word-y, and the fact that I thought you were bad. Or was it really just the first thing. So after saying I got back from vacay and could finally read properly, you think that because my thoughts now, reading through, differ from a shitty attempt at reading back a tiny fragment of the game while camping, that I'm clearly bad? That's weak!

And never any offense taken man, I love the sparring!

What really bugs me is the way you keep saying "oh gosh golly gee well just lynch me then, le sigh" which sounds exactly like what a baddie would say if they were the cheerleader.

Honestly, if after reading my posts you had come in with a "well Timmer hasn't even finished reading Day 1 yet, so I'm sure he'll see he's wrong once he continues on" I'd have had real hesitation about you, because my reading HAS only encompassed Day 1 so far (Day 1 with a bit help from retro-knowing Elohcin's role). But instead to kind of NO U me with what you said? You just made me feel more sure, man.

[timmer]

okay, page 6 out of 20, now. The Trogdor poll.

First off, DP opted to go it alone without any explanation at all. Then Bullz joined him and had a Maths argument:

If everyone is in the same hut then it's just a randomised kill that could get anybody. Having several big groups split across huts just seems like the better idea to me.

Next item of note was this:

Maybe - but DP and Borok also voted for that option after we all Clowncar'd into Medicine Man, so I'm not sure what was up with that either. SK wouldn't have BTS with anyone else, so I don't know how to interpret that. Or maybe people voted without super duper knowing the ramifications of their selection?

First, Borok, I'm guessing from this, jioned the Warrior hut but didn't post about it that I can see? Secondly though, and this made me truly LOL, the term "clowncar'd". That's brilliant.

next, this caught my eye:

i was somewhat hoping to see if the killer would/could choose to go after a hut with one person in it so that the kill is definitely a civ one.

also, if a hut is incinerated, is it gone forever q.m.

is this a slip of some sort? Like, does A Person know his whole team voted Medicine Hut, and thus he sees it likely that a loner in a separate hut would be a civ? Weird post, and this def. puts A Person on my radar for the moment.

And lastly for this page:

I think I'll go to the Town Drunk's tent. It's less crowded over there. Maybe more dangerous, but meh.

So we've got DP, Bullz, Borok and DF so far who opted out of "clowncar-ing". I see it two ways. One, there are roles who, especially on night 1, knew they couldn't die so maybe one or two of these names are people who tried to wreck Trogdor's NK. Second of course, one of them could be Trogdor.

Can Trogdor randomly kill himself if he picks the hut he is in? That could make a player ballsy enough to pick a different hut.

Moving to the next page...

[timmer]

Page 7 of 20, the end of night 1, start of day 2.

So Trogdor picked the hut with Borok, DP and Bullz, and Bullz died. unless Trogdor cannot actually kill himself, I'd say that puts Trogdor in the Medicine Hut group, or DF in the third hut, but I don't see DF exposing his SK-ness by starting a third lone hut, so I assume Trogdor is in the Medicine group.

Next, Bea removed from the poll (and I think i was later on as well), have we figured this out? As of this moment, I assume no. Moving on...

okay, now here is where MP and Mongoose are going to hate me again, but look at this set of posts (bolding mine):

I have been a little suspicious of Mongoose ever since Day One with her crazy, distracting theories. I am looking at a Hedgeowl vote today because I believe she was trying to save Elo with her vote timing, but I would not oppose people voting for Mongoose as well.

20 minutes later...

As to who I'm looking at today... I'm actually feeling a bit wary of llama, as much as I hate to say it. My gut is screaming baddie on him for some reason half the time I read his posts. They just don't read like civvie llama to me. Sorry, llama, I know that's hard to defend against, and it's far from saying I'll even vote for you today, but my gut feels most strongly about you independent of evidence.

As to Mongoose, I'm not leaning strongly on her one way or the other; she can be kind of hard to read. That said, I think I might lean just 1% civvie, but am very unsure. I think I find it a bit hard to believe she would act the way she did with Elohcin in thread if they were teammates; it seems too buddy buddy and obvious. I don't think they would have interacted like that and drawn so much attention to both of them, especially throwing out the wacky theories. I could be wrong, but I doubt I'll be giving her my vote.

llama is suspicious of Mongoose and MP is suddenly suspicious of llama. How interesting. And MP sees Mongoose as only 1% civvie but isn't leaning one way or the other?

Oh, and soon after that:

linki MP - I'm a little worried about llama too. He knows I am acting the way I normally do and he knows better than anyone what I'm like as a baddie (I'm referencing the game he hosted).

But you guys aren't teammates.

That's really it for page 7.

[timmer]

And one last bit I had put separate because its OT:

and the phrase "secret event" gives me crazy ptsd about being trapped in a chat room for a weekend searching for flags..... *kicks wabbit.* if the secret event is something not going on publicly, I'm glad to be in the dark about it.

Good christ, I spent so many hours searching for that flag. that was... awful. But memorable!

[Bullzeye]

That's a HORRIBLE result from the lynch...horrible but somehwat telling. Like a few others have previously said, I was working under the theory that Devin was the King...so either he was full of poo and gambled that no one would call him out on the revival ability or...or...ok I can't think of any other reason why he would claim he rezzed Bullzeye. Kind of makes me wonder about Bullzeye's affiliation to be honest...

Gotta eat then time for more catch-up....mmmmm, ketchup!

The one piece of information regarding Devin I have that nobody else has for certain is that I am a civ. So if he was bad then he was lying about having rezzed me. If he was lying someone would definitely have called him out on it. No civ would let a baddie lie and take credit for something they know is not true. Therefore in my mind, Devin was definitely civ. Wonder about me all you like though.

[Tangrowth]

This is in response to Dom, but also everyone else who is crusading that I am bad, because I just don't have the time nor the desire to address all of you separately when this should suffice:

Linki with Dom: You're wrong, that's why you should NOT continue voting for me. The fact that you refuse to even consider you're wrong is continually bothersome. I've been in defensive mode ALL GAME and you still have not even explained why other than just that I'm apparently NO U'ing and whatever. You also never responded to my questions in an earlier post asking you how your assessment was fair.

"You shouldn't vote me because I'm civvie!"

That's what you're saying.

I HAVE explained. I have said that it's strange that you won't address real questions to you (see Juliets who asked why it's okay for you to build a bullshit case on llama but not for timmer to suspect you). I think you're lashing out at people who question your motives rather than explain them and just assume that everyone thinks you're civvie. I explained this earlier, but you all but ignored it and said, "I'm not NO-Uing you might be bad"

This is not the MP I know.


Also, my wifi went down while catching up last time, so if I missed a post by you, please let me know.

I'm sorry, I can't explain my intentions any more than I already have. They just are what they are. Yes, I came up with that huge case on llama and I thought he was bad. Then I changed my mind. I'm allowed to change my mind. I was being very narrow-minded. I realize I'm lashing out at you and timmer, but understand it from my point of view; it feels like players have been relentlessly attacking me all game, and this has happened game after game after game, and I just don't know what to say to it. I sincerely believe that the baddies would really want me dead, so it's coloring my viewpoint of players that continuously gun after me, without considering that I could even be civvie. Yes, for the longest time, I gunned after llama and didn't consider him to be civvie. I screwed up. I realize anyone going after me could do the same thing. But consider this...

This is all I really know:
- I am a civvie
- I am pretty damn positive Devin and llama are both civvies

And that's it. So to me, anyone who refuses to recognize any of those facts could be someone who knows exactly what I'm talking about and yet refuses to acknowledge it because they want me gone. It's really hard to get that train of thought out of my mind when evaluating your and timmer's and other player's intentions. Because to me, all you guys are doing is not helping at all, you're just relentlessly attacking me and you're not helping us sort out baddies. I realize if you actually are civvie it doesn't seem that way to you at all, but I know my own alignment and role. I don't know yours and timmer's. I believe I've even set up the circumstances so that someone could deduce my role. I didn't want to do it, but I believe it's possible for someone to do so. Regardless of that, which is possibly remote but it is out there, but I've laid myself out there COMPLETELY. My intentions are just so out there in all of my posts. There's nothing else I could give in this game. Devin was absolutely spot on with his evaluation of me in every regard and no one seems to consider that at all. That's why it bothers me even more there are still certain players that just won't consider that I'm civvie here and that I'm just really lost.

It's very possible it's not the MP you know. I've felt like a lost soul all game. I really don't know what's going on.

CBK, you're just so freaking wrong. They are not contradictions. Maybe they look like they are, but they aren't. See above. I even said in the heat of the moment I really felt there have been baddie pushes to get me lynched just to make my intentions seem contradictory and uncivvie. They are not though. I don't know what else to say.

And timmer, same to you. I even specified to juliets that I actually suspected you FIRST, not the other way around. It's not a NO U. But I have to say the fact that you just came in here and started gunning after me after you defended me struck me as really weird.

Can't any of you understand and attempt to see this from my point of view? Just take a step back and realize in some set of circumstances that I could be civvie. How else am I supposed to act here? I just am being constantly crushed by this boulder of accusations that I really can't even defend against and it's really tiring and frustrating.

I'm sorry, I just don't know what else to say to yours and timmer's and other player's posts about me. I feel I've addressed them adequately. It's all interpretations of my actions.

[Tangrowth]

I have nothing else to say. If someone wants to actually give me something to defend against, fine. But I've posted so freaking much on this matter and so many others, and I have a busy weekend, so unless anything new comes up, I'm done. I've already addressed the train of thought behind why it seems I may be making NO U's, or why it seems I may be all over the place (I'm not suspecting everyone, I truly have no idea on most people and trying to get discussion out, I've said this), I already explained multiple times why I was gunning after llama and then I dropped it, and why I did what I did on Day 0, and I don't know what else to say.

I feel like talk about me has been taking up this thread so much and it's distracting from other conversation. Lynching me will seriously accomplish NOTHING. Anyone who thinks I'm baddie, please just take a step back, consider that you may be wrong, and re-read my posts, especially the four I made yesterday before I thought I was going to die, with a fresh mind. If that doesn't convince you, I don't know waht else to do. But I'm just feeling really crushed. I am constantly torn between just letting myself be lynched and my intentions revealed so that it can give the civvies so much more information and help my cause, and trying to stay alive as much as possible because I am a civvie and want to help and being alive helps so much, if not in that regard but beyond that as well. I've said this before. It could indicate something. PLEASE consider all of the facts. I will eat a fucking hat if Devin was bad. I really will. I'm getting to that point with llama as well. If you look at my posts with a fresh mind and still don't understand, consider how that could be the case. I have nothing else I can even put into my efforts this game.

I am going to be really busy this weekend so in addition to my feelings above I feel I need to take a step back from this thread and let others contribute for a while. But it sucks because while I feel that, others are relentlessly attacking me and I have to defend myself from being railroaded. But now I've said everything I need to say, even multiple times. Those people who keep pushing uncertainty about Devin being civvie are either clueless or baddies trying to push lies. Please re-read his posts. He said he knew he would survive a particular night. THink about his actions. He couldn't have made it any more clear IMO and yet people are ignoring this or something.

In summary, read my last four posts from yesterday with a fresh mind. I'm done on the matter. I am super busy today. I'll be back tomorrow.

[bea]

And one last bit I had put separate because its OT:

and the phrase "secret event" gives me crazy ptsd about being trapped in a chat room for a weekend searching for flags..... *kicks wabbit.* if the secret event is something not going on publicly, I'm glad to be in the dark about it.

Good christ, I spent so many hours searching for that flag. that was... awful. But memorable!

I swear you, JC and Golden will always have the most special place in my heart. By the end of that game, I didn't care who won so long as one of you did. I can't tell you how many of those hours my poor sweetie was all "let's do something." and I was all "NO!! WE MUST FIND THIS FUCKING FLAG!!!" that never ended up existing. I still say if I ever meet wabbit, I'm going to punch him in the face and say "Fuck you flag hunting!" then hug the hell out of him because he's wabbit and I adore him.

As for the non -ot part you mentioned me - I asked the hostess if I was allowed to talk about my poll removal and she said no. So - I do have a theory as to why I was removed. IDK if anyone else that has been removed can say why they were or not. Till I see others talk about it, I'm still going on what the hostess with the mostess told me.


ok - more catching up....

linki - alex is here? and I'm not caught up - that's sad for me. I wish I'd been around earlier to get to actually talk to him. It's the 3 game curse.


and now I'm back to catching up....

[bea]

That's a HORRIBLE result from the lynch...horrible but somehwat telling. Like a few others have previously said, I was working under the theory that Devin was the King...so either he was full of poo and gambled that no one would call him out on the revival ability or...or...ok I can't think of any other reason why he would claim he rezzed Bullzeye. Kind of makes me wonder about Bullzeye's affiliation to be honest...

Gotta eat then time for more catch-up....mmmmm, ketchup!

The one piece of information regarding Devin I have that nobody else has for certain is that I am a civ. So if he was bad then he was lying about having rezzed me. If he was lying someone would definitely have called him out on it. No civ would let a baddie lie and take credit for something they know is not true. Therefore in my mind, Devin was definitely civ. Wonder about me all you like though.

I don't wonder so much about you as I do Devin (I actually have pretty good feelings about you). Since we now know that Lizzy was the King, (and wasn't around to see him claim that stuffs) well, he may have been making a calculated risk. I mean it's a bold move for sure, but IDk what other civ role could have rezzed you bullz. What am I missing here? I'm playing 3 games at once and my work is very much on the edge of blowing the eff up right now (to the point of maybe needing replaced) so - I do need some help figuring out the finer hints.

[Dom]

This is in response to Dom, but also everyone else who is crusading that I am bad, because I just don't have the time nor the desire to address all of you separately when this should suffice:

Linki with Dom: You're wrong, that's why you should NOT continue voting for me. The fact that you refuse to even consider you're wrong is continually bothersome. I've been in defensive mode ALL GAME and you still have not even explained why other than just that I'm apparently NO U'ing and whatever. You also never responded to my questions in an earlier post asking you how your assessment was fair.

"You shouldn't vote me because I'm civvie!"

That's what you're saying.

I HAVE explained. I have said that it's strange that you won't address real questions to you (see Juliets who asked why it's okay for you to build a bullshit case on llama but not for timmer to suspect you). I think you're lashing out at people who question your motives rather than explain them and just assume that everyone thinks you're civvie. I explained this earlier, but you all but ignored it and said, "I'm not NO-Uing you might be bad"

This is not the MP I know.


Also, my wifi went down while catching up last time, so if I missed a post by you, please let me know.

I'm sorry, I can't explain my intentions any more than I already have. They just are what they are. Yes, I came up with that huge case on llama and I thought he was bad. Then I changed my mind. I'm allowed to change my mind. I was being very narrow-minded. I realize I'm lashing out at you and timmer, but understand it from my point of view; it feels like players have been relentlessly attacking me all game, and this has happened game after game after game, and I just don't know what to say to it. I sincerely believe that the baddies would really want me dead, so it's coloring my viewpoint of players that continuously gun after me, without considering that I could even be civvie. Yes, for the longest time, I gunned after llama and didn't consider him to be civvie. I screwed up. I realize anyone going after me could do the same thing. But consider this...

This is all I really know:
- I am a civvie
- I am pretty damn positive Devin and llama are both civvies

And that's it. So to me, anyone who refuses to recognize any of those facts could be someone who knows exactly what I'm talking about and yet refuses to acknowledge it because they want me gone. It's really hard to get that train of thought out of my mind when evaluating your and timmer's and other player's intentions. Because to me, all you guys are doing is not helping at all, you're just relentlessly attacking me and you're not helping us sort out baddies. I realize if you actually are civvie it doesn't seem that way to you at all, but I know my own alignment and role. I don't know yours and timmer's. I believe I've even set up the circumstances so that someone could deduce my role. I didn't want to do it, but I believe it's possible for someone to do so. Regardless of that, which is possibly remote but it is out there, but I've laid myself out there COMPLETELY. My intentions are just so out there in all of my posts. There's nothing else I could give in this game. Devin was absolutely spot on with his evaluation of me in every regard and no one seems to consider that at all. That's why it bothers me even more there are still certain players that just won't consider that I'm civvie here and that I'm just really lost.

It's very possible it's not the MP you know. I've felt like a lost soul all game. I really don't know what's going on.

CBK, you're just so freaking wrong. They are not contradictions. Maybe they look like they are, but they aren't. See above. I even said in the heat of the moment I really felt there have been baddie pushes to get me lynched just to make my intentions seem contradictory and uncivvie. They are not though. I don't know what else to say.

And timmer, same to you. I even specified to juliets that I actually suspected you FIRST, not the other way around. It's not a NO U. But I have to say the fact that you just came in here and started gunning after me after you defended me struck me as really weird.

Can't any of you understand and attempt to see this from my point of view? Just take a step back and realize in some set of circumstances that I could be civvie. How else am I supposed to act here? I just am being constantly crushed by this boulder of accusations that I really can't even defend against and it's really tiring and frustrating.

I'm sorry, I just don't know what else to say to yours and timmer's and other player's posts about me. I feel I've addressed them adequately. It's all interpretations of my actions.

This is a big "No, you're wrong" with zero defense, just saying that if you don't recognize things YOU know to be true, you don't trust those people. Which isn't fair considering why should I trust you at all??????

WTF MP?

[bea]

I have nothing else to say. If someone wants to actually give me something to defend against, fine. But I've posted so freaking much on this matter and so many others, and I have a busy weekend, so unless anything new comes up, I'm done. I've already addressed the train of thought behind why it seems I may be making NO U's, or why it seems I may be all over the place (I'm not suspecting everyone, I truly have no idea on most people and trying to get discussion out, I've said this), I already explained multiple times why I was gunning after llama and then I dropped it, and why I did what I did on Day 0, and I don't know what else to say.

I feel like talk about me has been taking up this thread so much and it's distracting from other conversation. Lynching me will seriously accomplish NOTHING. Anyone who thinks I'm baddie, please just take a step back, consider that you may be wrong, and re-read my posts, especially the four I made yesterday before I thought I was going to die, with a fresh mind. If that doesn't convince you, I don't know waht else to do. But I'm just feeling really crushed. I am constantly torn between just letting myself be lynched and my intentions revealed so that it can give the civvies so much more information and help my cause, and trying to stay alive as much as possible because I am a civvie and want to help and being alive helps so much, if not in that regard but beyond that as well. I've said this before. It could indicate something. PLEASE consider all of the facts. I will eat a fucking hat if Devin was bad. I really will. I'm getting to that point with llama as well. If you look at my posts with a fresh mind and still don't understand, consider how that could be the case. I have nothing else I can even put into my efforts this game.

I am going to be really busy this weekend so in addition to my feelings above I feel I need to take a step back from this thread and let others contribute for a while. But it sucks because while I feel that, others are relentlessly attacking me and I have to defend myself from being railroaded. But now I've said everything I need to say, even multiple times. Those people who keep pushing uncertainty about Devin being civvie are either clueless or baddies trying to push lies. Please re-read his posts. He said he knew he would survive a particular night. THink about his actions. He couldn't have made it any more clear IMO and yet people are ignoring this or something.

In summary, read my last four posts from yesterday with a fresh mind. I'm done on the matter. I am super busy today. I'll be back tomorrow.

Alex. I love you. You know I do. And you know very well how I feel all flippty floppity about you this game. You have to at least kinda understand why I'm flippity floppity. The fact that you don't address the fact that I have very good reasons to be unsure of you makes me think you are withholding. I'm in 3 games and my RL is exploding in exponential levels. To the point that I'm asking all my hosts to search out replacements. But still, I'm going to play the game as best as I can while I'm here.

I actually agree with you in the point that the talk of you has taken up too much time of the thread. It has hindered us finding baddies. We've lynched two civs in a row now, and lots of our discussion has been about you. And not the people who actually get voted for. I feel like this is a conversation that no one wants to take a stand on for fear of being wrong. I just can't figure out if your posts are subtly encouraging us to keep talking about you or not. Part of me believes you are a civ AND that same part of me wants to say "just let's lynch him so we'll be done with it and know for sure." That makes me VERY uncomfortable. I don't like thinking that way about a potential teammate. And that right there is what keeps me thinking you might yet be a baddie. Don't you understand what I'm saying here???


I would ask BDH - who has been focused on you so much, who he would vote for if MP weren't an option?

I would also ask this of Timmer and Dom.

During this next phase - while I understand that MP may be baddie mcbadderson, where else would you look? I do truely feel like he's gotten way too much attention. And it's making things easy for the baddies to pick us off one by one.

[Mongoose]

Timmer - These are all thoughts for you or replying to you:

- Trogdor can't kill himself if he picks the hut he is in. We asked Daisy for clarification on that, so you might have already seen that in your reread since that post.

That's a good catch about AP stating he hopes Trogdor is likely to catch a civ. I hope he clarifies what he means on that.He says wacky things so maybe he mispoke or maybe it really was a slip.

MP Explains later that 1% civ means more likely civ than baddie, if only a little bit. He even made a little chart. He starts super duper suspecting me out of nowhere though later. I still don't really think he's bad even after his about-face on me. I think he is desperate (Don't take that the wrong way,MP) to win a game finally on his own freakin site and he gets mislynched so easily around here that I think that's why he's coming off the way he is. We aren't teammates though. I've gone back and forth on him a bit in my head and it seems like he is doing the same with me. Those would be some really obvious tactics if we were bad. I'd hope that if we are on a baddie team together sometime, they we will be much more slick than that.

Thanks, I'm glad you liked the 'clowncar' term!

Honestly, it seems like the people who have played games with me multiple times before suspect me less and see that this is my textbook civ game. It doesn't vary much! I think once you and I get to play together more often, you'll be able to see it too. It seems like the only players doubting my civ-ness are new kids or people I've not interacted with a lot, but let the record reflect I'm not a BLue Laser, not Trogdor and not a Teen Girl. You may even have a guess on who I am; the breadcrumbs are certainly there.

[bea]

This is in response to Dom, but also everyone else who is crusading that I am bad, because I just don't have the time nor the desire to address all of you separately when this should suffice:

Linki with Dom: You're wrong, that's why you should NOT continue voting for me. The fact that you refuse to even consider you're wrong is continually bothersome. I've been in defensive mode ALL GAME and you still have not even explained why other than just that I'm apparently NO U'ing and whatever. You also never responded to my questions in an earlier post asking you how your assessment was fair.

"You shouldn't vote me because I'm civvie!"

That's what you're saying.

I HAVE explained. I have said that it's strange that you won't address real questions to you (see Juliets who asked why it's okay for you to build a bullshit case on llama but not for timmer to suspect you). I think you're lashing out at people who question your motives rather than explain them and just assume that everyone thinks you're civvie. I explained this earlier, but you all but ignored it and said, "I'm not NO-Uing you might be bad"

This is not the MP I know.


Also, my wifi went down while catching up last time, so if I missed a post by you, please let me know.

I'm sorry, I can't explain my intentions any more than I already have. They just are what they are. Yes, I came up with that huge case on llama and I thought he was bad. Then I changed my mind. I'm allowed to change my mind. I was being very narrow-minded. I realize I'm lashing out at you and timmer, but understand it from my point of view; it feels like players have been relentlessly attacking me all game, and this has happened game after game after game, and I just don't know what to say to it. I sincerely believe that the baddies would really want me dead, so it's coloring my viewpoint of players that continuously gun after me, without considering that I could even be civvie. Yes, for the longest time, I gunned after llama and didn't consider him to be civvie. I screwed up. I realize anyone going after me could do the same thing. But consider this...

This is all I really know:
- I am a civvie
- I am pretty damn positive Devin and llama are both civvies

And that's it. So to me, anyone who refuses to recognize any of those facts could be someone who knows exactly what I'm talking about and yet refuses to acknowledge it because they want me gone. It's really hard to get that train of thought out of my mind when evaluating your and timmer's and other player's intentions. Because to me, all you guys are doing is not helping at all, you're just relentlessly attacking me and you're not helping us sort out baddies. I realize if you actually are civvie it doesn't seem that way to you at all, but I know my own alignment and role. I don't know yours and timmer's. I believe I've even set up the circumstances so that someone could deduce my role. I didn't want to do it, but I believe it's possible for someone to do so. Regardless of that, which is possibly remote but it is out there, but I've laid myself out there COMPLETELY. My intentions are just so out there in all of my posts. There's nothing else I could give in this game. Devin was absolutely spot on with his evaluation of me in every regard and no one seems to consider that at all. That's why it bothers me even more there are still certain players that just won't consider that I'm civvie here and that I'm just really lost.

It's very possible it's not the MP you know. I've felt like a lost soul all game. I really don't know what's going on.

CBK, you're just so freaking wrong. They are not contradictions. Maybe they look like they are, but they aren't. See above. I even said in the heat of the moment I really felt there have been baddie pushes to get me lynched just to make my intentions seem contradictory and uncivvie. They are not though. I don't know what else to say.

And timmer, same to you. I even specified to juliets that I actually suspected you FIRST, not the other way around. It's not a NO U. But I have to say the fact that you just came in here and started gunning after me after you defended me struck me as really weird.

Can't any of you understand and attempt to see this from my point of view? Just take a step back and realize in some set of circumstances that I could be civvie. How else am I supposed to act here? I just am being constantly crushed by this boulder of accusations that I really can't even defend against and it's really tiring and frustrating.

I'm sorry, I just don't know what else to say to yours and timmer's and other player's posts about me. I feel I've addressed them adequately. It's all interpretations of my actions.

This is a big "No, you're wrong" with zero defense, just saying that if you don't recognize things YOU know to be true, you don't trust those people. Which isn't fair considering why should I trust you at all??????

WTF MP?

this post makes me actually want to go look up CBK's post - because llama also said he didn't buy her case on MP - and I'm sorry - I've had too many beers to do the research, but I don't think CBK's post about MP was invalid.

As I read CBK's post - I totally understood what she was saying - what did I miss?

[Tangrowth]

OK, just ate breakfast, going to start my practice GMAT right after I post this, then have to study more, then have plans, etc. Tomorrow I also really need to study, but will be able to post at some point. I didn't intend on coming back this morning, but I'm an addict and read the two posts, and i have just two more things to say, and then I really don't have time AND I want to step away anyway because this is so counterproductive to the civvie cause to continue to focus on me (agreed with you, bea, that's exactly what's happening) and so fucking tiring (seriously, can anyone understand how exhausting this is for me? Especially after so many games where I have to do this CONSTANTLY?):

1. Dom, I'm not asking ANYONE to trust me. I never have. I'm asking you to re-consider and try to have an open mind.

2. bea, just on your topic of RL. I understand this. But how can anyone crusade against me like this? Multiple people ahve said this doesn't seem like MP or whatever -- has anyone considered everything that's going on in my life right now may have had at least some impact on that, really? or that the fact that I'm totally on my own and everything I am saying could be totally what's going on to actually be a consideration?

It bothers me so DAMN much that there are players who refuse to consider these things. I am notorious for my tunnel vision and even I eventually sat back and took a step back from my llama argument to realize it was all based on just INTERPRETATIONS. Just like everything that's been said about me. It completely wreaks of either insanely closed-minded civvie or a determined baddie to me.

Linki with bea and Mongoose, not responding, really have to go

[A Person]

i was somewhat hoping to see if the killer would/could choose to go after a hut with one person in it so that the kill is definitely a civ one.

also, if a hut is incinerated, is it gone forever q.m.

is this a slip of some sort? Like, does A Person know his whole team voted Medicine Hut, and thus he sees it likely that a loner in a separate hut would be a civ? Weird post, and this def. puts A Person on my radar for the moment.

I was just wondering if trogdor would kill me if i picked a hut all on my own, that's all.

[bea]

Timmer - These are all thoughts for you or replying to you:

- Trogdor can't kill himself if he picks the hut he is in. We asked Daisy for clarification on that, so you might have already seen that in your reread since that post.

That's a good catch about AP stating he hopes Trogdor is likely to catch a civ. I hope he clarifies what he means on that.He says wacky things so maybe he mispoke or maybe it really was a slip.

MP Explains later that 1% civ means more likely civ than baddie, if only a little bit. He even made a little chart. He starts super duper suspecting me out of nowhere though later. I still don't really think he's bad even after his about-face on me. I think he is desperate (Don't take that the wrong way,MP) to win a game finally on his own freakin site and he gets mislynched so easily around here that I think that's why he's coming off the way he is. We aren't teammates though. I've gone back and forth on him a bit in my head and it seems like he is doing the same with me. Those would be some really obvious tactics if we were bad. I'd hope that if we are on a baddie team together sometime, they we will be much more slick than that.

Thanks, I'm glad you liked the 'clowncar' term!

Honestly, it seems like the people who have played games with me multiple times before suspect me less and see that this is my textbook civ game. It doesn't vary much! I think once you and I get to play together more often, you'll be able to see it too. It seems like the only players doubting my civ-ness are new kids or people I've not interacted with a lot, but let the record reflect I'm not a BLue Laser, not Trogdor and not a Teen Girl. You may even have a guess on who I am; the breadcrumbs are certainly there.

I wish I could find the crumbs - I would omnomnom them. alas - I am over worked and under paid
that said, goosey - I vibe you as civ so - ya know -take that for what it's worth...

[Vompatti]

I have a feeling that MP is attempting to pass as a civ by flooding the thread with seemingly civ-like walls of text that I'm not going to bother reading.

[bea]

OK, just ate breakfast, going to start my practice GMAT right after I post this, then have to study more, then have plans, etc. Tomorrow I also really need to study, but will be able to post at some point. I didn't intend on coming back this morning, but I'm an addict and read the two posts, and i have just two more things to say, and then I really don't have time AND I want to step away anyway because this is so counterproductive to the civvie cause to continue to focus on me (agreed with you, bea, that's exactly what's happening) and so fucking tiring (seriously, can anyone understand how exhausting this is for me? Especially after so many games where I have to do this CONSTANTLY?):

1. Dom, I'm not asking ANYONE to trust me. I never have. I'm asking you to re-consider and try to have an open mind.

2. bea, just on your topic of RL. I understand this. But how can anyone crusade against me like this? Multiple people ahve said this doesn't seem like MP or whatever -- has anyone considered everything that's going on in my life right now may have had at least some impact on that, really? or that the fact that I'm totally on my own and everything I am saying could be totally what's going on to actually be a consideration?

It bothers me so DAMN much that there are players who refuse to consider these things. I am notorious for my tunnel vision and even I eventually sat back and took a step back from my llama argument to realize it was all based on just INTERPRETATIONS. Just like everything that's been said about me. It completely wreaks of either insanely closed-minded civvie or a determined baddie to me.

Linki with bea and Mongoose, not responding, really have to go

Alex, here is my one and only suggestion for you. Step away. Focus on your exams. Focus on your family. RL is WAY more important than these games. I know you want to play the best game you can play because it's Daisy's game. I didn't want to ask to be replaced for the same reason, but RL is RL. Maybe - just maybe - if you fade away a little, the thread won't be dominated with is MP good or bad? - I know that you feel the need to defend everytime your name is brought up - but both of us agree that it's derailing the thread at this point. And I think others would agree with that as well. Come back - post when you can - I am willing to give you the BOTD for at least a cycle to see what else turns up in your quiet.

[A Person]

I have a feeling that MP is attempting to pass as a civ by flooding the thread with seemingly civ-like walls of text that I'm not going to bother reading.

I've been wondering that for a while, it's hard to ignore when he keeps posting walls of text that seem to be (I've not really read them) all the same thing.

[Mongoose]

I have a feeling that MP is attempting to pass as a civ by flooding the thread with seemingly civ-like walls of text that I'm not going to bother reading.

I used to do that when responding to discovery. But that tactic could also work for a civ, Vomp.

[Mongoose]

Okay, let's focus on someone else and give Alex a break. What do we think about Borok, for example.

[thellama73]

I'm going to feel like a massive sucker if I end up being wrong, but at this point I'm prepared to believe Alex is telling the truth. He sounds convincing to me.