Survivor: Mafia [Day 4: Atamai Tribe]

[Quin]

Also, I'm not "rejecting your efforts" Quin. We're on the same team here, I'm asking you what those efforts were.

Fine. I've since shown you my efforts. Next time I'd advise you not to reveal your PoE before you ask the important questions. This is what happens.

[LoRab]

Well now, hold on, let's be fair about this. Is this the post you mentioned?

These time zone differences are worse than I thought

Going to bed. I looked up a battleship strategy that gives a couple of tips that might help with placement and also searching. Might be a good idea for people to have a look before making any decisions.

Because, there's nothing here but the words "a battleship strategy". Nothing about quadrants. Nothing about picking diagonally (which I suggested based on the article *SVS* posted and her own desire/experience to use the diagonal strategy.) Nothing about taking turns, or dialing in on items, or using a grid with a color code.

Ask anyone from Manama, I'm the first person to give out fair dues, but taking credit for stuff you didn't do, that's a no-no.

http://www.ultrabattleship.com/tips.php

Don't reject my efforts because you couldn't do a google search.

The grid is the only thing you have going for you. Thank you for that.

I think his point is that you simply said: there are strategies.

Not which ones (there are several out there). Not specific suggestions. Just--there are strategies--look for them.

Now you seem to be saying that you suggested strategies. Not the advice to look for strategies (which I think we all probably would have figured out).

Honestly, I think he's right.

Not that you aren't a good player and aren't useful--but in the fact that you're claiming to have given strategy in the challenge when, in fact, you didn't.

Also, that you're blaming DH, and others who were online at the time, but he's the one you are speicifcally plaming for placement choices, for using a legit strategy for placing items in battleship (although apparently not one you found on your google search), and that doesn't sit right with me, either.

I'm in much the same situation as DH. There are people I've given my word that I won't vote for them, which limits my choices. And the way you are posting right now is not making me want to not vote for you.

[Quin]

LoRab, the only thing missing that distinguishes 'suggesting strategies' and saying 'there are strategies' is me copy and pasting the damn thing on the thread. I told you to find them and by the looks of it nobody actually did.

[DharmaHelper]

4 and 5 still mean nothing. You are by no means a stronger or more reliable player than the rest of us because of what you did in those two instances. Both of them were pure probability.

@linki - I did not say that. You chose to ignore my personal contributions. This is my response.

Agree to disagree on 4. I think my pick which landed an item and was based (whether you believe me or not) on a strategy I came up with largely on my own, gave us an edge. Especially knowing now that the margin of victory was 8 picks. I might concede 5, if only because I had no way of knowing we'd find chicken there and I genuinely wouldn't have been bothered to find an Idol. As LoRab explained, our stance on Idols over on the other side of the island was more communal.

Linki - Actually, SVS posted a link to an article that I skimmed and got the diagonal picks idea from (she also suggested diagonal picks in the thread),

[DFaraday]

DH, are you saying that from here on out you will only vote for me, Quin, or SVS? It sounds to me like we're not a unified new tribe after all, it's still us original Atamais alongside Manamanamanas, we're just all in the same location. I would like for us all to work together, but if we're to be second class citizens in our tribe, I don't see how that's going to work.

As for the challenge, yes I took a long time. Scotty's instructions made me think the only effect was game-based time. I've never played a Mafia game (not that this is really Mafia) where the amount of time it takes you to do something in real life directly translates to time in the game. Now I know better. If you want to lynch me for misunderstanding a game mechanic on Day 1 so be it.

Also, I doubt that earlier epidemic is the only sickness that will come up this game. If you guys want to get rid of your doctor already you're just handicapping yourselves.

[Quin]

DH, are you saying that from here on out you will only vote for me, Quin, or SVS? It sounds to me like we're not a unified new tribe after all, it's still us original Atamais alongside Manamanamanas, we're just all in the same location. I would like for us all to work together, but if we're to be second class citizens in our tribe, I don't see how that's going to work.

As for the challenge, yes I took a long time. Scotty's instructions made me think the only effect was game-based time. I've never played a Mafia game (not that this is really Mafia) where the amount of time it takes you to do something in real life directly translates to time in the game. Now I know better. If you want to lynch me for misunderstanding a game mechanic on Day 1 so be it.

Also, I doubt that earlier epidemic is the only sickness that will come up this game. If you guys want to get rid of your doctor already you're just handicapping yourselves.

This is a glaringly obvious theme to your strategy, DH. That's not something we need on this tribe.

[DharmaHelper]

DH, are you saying that from here on out you will only vote for me, Quin, or SVS? It sounds to me like we're not a unified new tribe after all, it's still us original Atamais alongside Manamanamanas, we're just all in the same location. I would like for us all to work together, but if we're to be second class citizens in our tribe, I don't see how that's going to work.

As for the challenge, yes I took a long time. Scotty's instructions made me think the only effect was game-based time. I've never played a Mafia game (not that this is really Mafia) where the amount of time it takes you to do something in real life directly translates to time in the game. Now I know better. If you want to lynch me for misunderstanding a game mechanic on Day 1 so be it.

Also, I doubt that earlier epidemic is the only sickness that will come up this game. If you guys want to get rid of your doctor already you're just handicapping yourselves.

To be clear, I'm saying that in this instance, right now, my voting options are limited by virtue of the swap and my commitment to/loyalty among the Mamana. I don't think for a second it's much different over there, where your former tribe mates have majority. What I'm saying is, between my options, I know I can count on (and I gave my word that they can count on me) my former Mamana tribes mates. I don't know you or SVS or Quin in a game context, and while I would love to unify this tribe and sort that out and continue to win challenges, and vote in the future based on this tribe, Right now my vote is based on what I've already explained.

linki - If you want to be that way about it, sure. You (speaking to Quin here) DF and SVS are in the minority on this side of the island, just like Opt, Golden, and Chuck are in the minority on Mamana. If you expect me to believe that if it were 4-3 in your favor you wouldn't be reluctant to vote for one of your own numbers, by all means, make that case.

[Quin]

I wouldn't be reluctant to vote for one of my own numbers. I'm only concerned with votes that strengthen the tribe. We haven't merged. We're not ready to cannibalise ourselves.

[DFaraday]

I wouldn't be reluctant to vote for one of my own numbers. I'm only concerned with votes that strengthen the tribe. We haven't merged. We're not ready to cannibalise ourselves.

And I can't speak for anyone else, but I haven't made any solemn pledges never to vote for certain players. If one of the originals was legitimately the most detrimental to the tribe, I would vote for that person, simple as.

[DharmaHelper]

Before I go to bed, just a few more points:

Quin, if your main argument is "I'm only concerned with votes that strengthen the tribe" then I have to say I don't believe you. I give you and Faraday the opportunity to make your case, and instead of doing that, you twist and contort and turn to try and say that I should be the one to be voted out? You say I disregarded your contributions, but rather than make a case for yourself to stay, you argue that my own contributions were irrelevant?

If your vote was really about making the tribe stronger, you wouldn't have brought me up. I made very significant contributions to this task, which won us food and cured our sickness. Aside from my personal contributions, I showed that I could work well as a team with SVS, DF, and yourself when I worked to catch people up on the strategy, keep people informed of the picks, etc. That's pretty fuckin' strong.

What you're proposing sounds like Survivor's version of a No U, which doesn't seem like a strong argument, nor does it seem like it strengthens the tribe.

[LoRab]

LoRab, the only thing missing that distinguishes 'suggesting strategies' and saying 'there are strategies' is me copy and pasting the damn thing on the thread. I told you to find them and by the looks of it nobody actually did.

What makes you think that no one looked at strategies? The items were placed based on strategy and the items were searched for based on strategy. There are multiple strategies for battleship that exist. The strategies chosen may not be the ones you would have chosen. They may not even be the ones that you found in the article you read in the quick google search you did. But that doesn't mean that someone else didn't find an article in a different google search. SVS even posted an article (demonstrating that it's factually untrue that nobody actually did).

The difference between "suggesting strategies" and "there are strategies" is that clearly you had a particular strategy in mind, and you are not happy that it was not the strategy that was used. But no one had any way of knowing what your opinion was about which strategy you would have preferred based on the one you read about because you didn't say which one it was. Therefore, someone using a different strategy (whether known through a google search or through life and playing battleship and already knowing strategy that exists) cannot imply that they didn't act strategically.

And you cannot claim that you made suggestions of what strategy should be used. Until you said differently, there was no way for anyone to know that you wouldn't have done things in exactly the same way, based on what you had posted before you went to bed.

[Quin]

All you've done is reiterate the same debunked contributions. You did nothing today that anybody else either didn't already or couldn't do. You've also proved that you're completely untrustworthy as a tribemate. Strength of integrity matters just as much as challenge ability.

Another question: Why can't we bring you up if we're discussing votes? You aren't leading this tribe.

[Quin]

LoRab, the only thing missing that distinguishes 'suggesting strategies' and saying 'there are strategies' is me copy and pasting the damn thing on the thread. I told you to find them and by the looks of it nobody actually did.

What makes you think that no one looked at strategies? The items were placed based on strategy and the items were searched for based on strategy. There are multiple strategies for battleship that exist. The strategies chosen may not be the ones you would have chosen. They may not even be the ones that you found in the article you read in the quick google search you did. But that doesn't mean that someone else didn't find an article in a different google search. SVS even posted an article (demonstrating that it's factually untrue that nobody actually did).

The difference between "suggesting strategies" and "there are strategies" is that clearly you had a particular strategy in mind, and you are not happy that it was not the strategy that was used. But no one had any way of knowing what your opinion was about which strategy you would have preferred based on the one you read about because you didn't say which one it was. Therefore, someone using a different strategy (whether known through a google search or through life and playing battleship and already knowing strategy that exists) cannot imply that they didn't act strategically.

And you cannot claim that you made suggestions of what strategy should be used. Until you said differently, there was no way for anyone to know that you wouldn't have done things in exactly the same way, based on what you had posted before you went to bed.

I don't care that the strategies I had in mind weren't used. Not once did I say that.

[LoRab]

LoRab, the only thing missing that distinguishes 'suggesting strategies' and saying 'there are strategies' is me copy and pasting the damn thing on the thread. I told you to find them and by the looks of it nobody actually did.

What makes you think that no one looked at strategies? The items were placed based on strategy and the items were searched for based on strategy. There are multiple strategies for battleship that exist. The strategies chosen may not be the ones you would have chosen. They may not even be the ones that you found in the article you read in the quick google search you did. But that doesn't mean that someone else didn't find an article in a different google search. SVS even posted an article (demonstrating that it's factually untrue that nobody actually did).

The difference between "suggesting strategies" and "there are strategies" is that clearly you had a particular strategy in mind, and you are not happy that it was not the strategy that was used. But no one had any way of knowing what your opinion was about which strategy you would have preferred based on the one you read about because you didn't say which one it was. Therefore, someone using a different strategy (whether known through a google search or through life and playing battleship and already knowing strategy that exists) cannot imply that they didn't act strategically.

And you cannot claim that you made suggestions of what strategy should be used. Until you said differently, there was no way for anyone to know that you wouldn't have done things in exactly the same way, based on what you had posted before you went to bed.

I don't care that the strategies I had in mind weren't used. Not once did I say that.

No, but you've said that you suggested people look at strategies and clearly they didn't. What makes you believe that is true, other than the fact that you didn't like the strategies you had in mind?

[Quin]

LoRab, the only thing missing that distinguishes 'suggesting strategies' and saying 'there are strategies' is me copy and pasting the damn thing on the thread. I told you to find them and by the looks of it nobody actually did.

What makes you think that no one looked at strategies? The items were placed based on strategy and the items were searched for based on strategy. There are multiple strategies for battleship that exist. The strategies chosen may not be the ones you would have chosen. They may not even be the ones that you found in the article you read in the quick google search you did. But that doesn't mean that someone else didn't find an article in a different google search. SVS even posted an article (demonstrating that it's factually untrue that nobody actually did).

The difference between "suggesting strategies" and "there are strategies" is that clearly you had a particular strategy in mind, and you are not happy that it was not the strategy that was used. But no one had any way of knowing what your opinion was about which strategy you would have preferred based on the one you read about because you didn't say which one it was. Therefore, someone using a different strategy (whether known through a google search or through life and playing battleship and already knowing strategy that exists) cannot imply that they didn't act strategically.

And you cannot claim that you made suggestions of what strategy should be used. Until you said differently, there was no way for anyone to know that you wouldn't have done things in exactly the same way, based on what you had posted before you went to bed.

I don't care that the strategies I had in mind weren't used. Not once did I say that.

No, but you've said that you suggested people look at strategies and clearly they didn't. What makes you believe that is true, other than the fact that you didn't like the strategies you had in mind?

Because nobody talked about them, and because DH never regarded my contributions when he threw me under the bus as a vote candidate.

[DharmaHelper]

All you've done is reiterate the same debunked contributions. You did nothing today that anybody else either didn't already or couldn't do. You've also proved that you're completely untrustworthy as a tribemate. Strength of integrity matters just as much as challenge ability.

Another question: Why can't we bring you up if we're discussing votes? You aren't leading this tribe.

Debunked how? I don't think you can argue my contributions were useless because "other people could have done that". Sure, other people could have, but I did. I posted a color coded map that helped at least one person understand the challenge better. I suggested quadrants and helped organize our tribe into those quadrants. I think anyone who looks back at my performance in that challenge and says I did the tribe harm is lying .

Why can I not be trusted? The opposite is true. My word was given to these 3 people that I would protect and watch over them, and I intend to do that and hope they intend to do the same. Why? because they earned my trust. Something you haven't had the time to do yet.

I haven't said you "Can't" bring me up, only that if your argument is to vote out the people who make the tribe weakest, you "shouldn't" because I "don't".

[DharmaHelper]

EBWOP: As a matter of fact, if you can explain to me what you did during today's challenge that someone else "couldn't have or didn't already", I'm more than happy to listen.

[Quin]

Your dishonesty and hierarchy are making this tribe look pretty weak right now.

[Quin]

EBWOP: As a matter of fact, if you can explain to me what you did during today's challenge that someone else "couldn't have or didn't already", I'm more than happy to listen.

I wasn't here for the bulk of it, so I can't. I'm just not going to oversell what I have done like you are.

[DharmaHelper]

EBWOP: As a matter of fact, if you can explain to me what you did during today's challenge that someone else "couldn't have or didn't already", I'm more than happy to listen.

I wasn't here for the bulk of it, so I can't. I'm just not going to oversell what I have done like you are.

You keep saying I'm overselling what I did, but you can't point out how.

[Quin]

EBWOP: As a matter of fact, if you can explain to me what you did during today's challenge that someone else "couldn't have or didn't already", I'm more than happy to listen.

I wasn't here for the bulk of it, so I can't. I'm just not going to oversell what I have done like you are.

You keep saying I'm overselling what I did, but you can't point out how.

I did like three times.

[LoRab]

EBWOP: That you didn't like the strategies that were used, and that the strategies you had in mind weren't used.

linkitis: Apparently didn't need the EBWOP.

But how could they have been discussed if no one knew what they were? There was discussion of how to play. DH made a suggestion of how to place the tiles, which was a strategy based suggestion, and asked for input before submitting it. There was discussion of how to strategize searches. It included an article online, which I assume SVS found on a google search. What that you suggested wasn't talked about in figuring out how to approach the challenge?

And DH didn't throw you under the bus as a vote candidate. He suggested that you were one of 2 people he is considering for the vote. As I've shared, I'm in the same boat as he is. I value loyalty and I've given my word to people. It's not a tribe thing, it's an individual word thing.

This isn't mafia, so throwing under the bus doesn't really carry the same weight (no pun intended) and we need to vote for someone. Would you have preferred there be no discussion of the vote? How would you have preferred the vote discussion to happen?

[DharmaHelper]

EBWOP: As a matter of fact, if you can explain to me what you did during today's challenge that someone else "couldn't have or didn't already", I'm more than happy to listen.

I wasn't here for the bulk of it, so I can't. I'm just not going to oversell what I have done like you are.

You keep saying I'm overselling what I did, but you can't point out how.

I did like three times.

Could you reiterate, because I'm confused if your argument is that I didn't do anything anyone "couldn't or didn't already...

Nobody did anything in that challenge that someone else "couldn't" hypothetically do.

I was (to my recollection) the first person to hit on an item, which is something actually nobody "already did".

I never said I was the only reason we did so well, But I definitively played a major part. So, I'm just wondering what part of what I did was insufficient?

[DharmaHelper]

EBWOP: As a matter of fact, if you can explain to me what you did during today's challenge that someone else "couldn't have or didn't already", I'm more than happy to listen.

I wasn't here for the bulk of it, so I can't. I'm just not going to oversell what I have done like you are.

You quite literally said I aped your strategy when all you did was say the words "there are battleship strategies"

[DharmaHelper]

I really should go to bed as now I'm actually in the position Quin was during the challenge it's like 3 AM

[Quin]

EBWOP: That you didn't like the strategies that were used, and that the strategies you had in mind weren't used.

linkitis: Apparently didn't need the EBWOP.

But how could they have been discussed if no one knew what they were? There was discussion of how to play. DH made a suggestion of how to place the tiles, which was a strategy based suggestion, and asked for input before submitting it. There was discussion of how to strategize searches. It included an article online, which I assume SVS found on a google search. What that you suggested wasn't talked about in figuring out how to approach the challenge?

And DH didn't throw you under the bus as a vote candidate. He suggested that you were one of 2 people he is considering for the vote. As I've shared, I'm in the same boat as he is. I value loyalty and I've given my word to people. It's not a tribe thing, it's an individual word thing.

This isn't mafia, so throwing under the bus doesn't really carry the same weight (no pun intended) and we need to vote for someone. Would you have preferred there be no discussion of the vote? How would you have preferred the vote discussion to happen?

I know the dynamic isn't the same. I'm not treating this as the same thing as mafia. But the fact remains that you may staked your word on it, but he is not somebody who can be trusted to work for the good of this tribe. You are not in his long term future, LoRab. I tell you this because I know who is.

[Quin]

EBWOP: As a matter of fact, if you can explain to me what you did during today's challenge that someone else "couldn't have or didn't already", I'm more than happy to listen.

I wasn't here for the bulk of it, so I can't. I'm just not going to oversell what I have done like you are.

You quite literally said I aped your strategy when all you did was say the words "there are battleship strategies"

False.

[LoRab]

All you've done is reiterate the same debunked contributions. You did nothing today that anybody else either didn't already or couldn't do. You've also proved that you're completely untrustworthy as a tribemate. Strength of integrity matters just as much as challenge ability.

Sometimes, it's the reverse.

In fact, DH has demonstrated integrity in keeping his word to people to whom he has given his word. Are you suggesting that he go back on his word and break promises? Is taking back a promise to protect another individual how you define trustworthiness?

Your dishonesty and hierarchy are making this tribe look pretty weak right now.

I disaagree, Quin. I think our openness and loyalty is what makes this tribe strong.

[Quin]

All you've done is reiterate the same debunked contributions. You did nothing today that anybody else either didn't already or couldn't do. You've also proved that you're completely untrustworthy as a tribemate. Strength of integrity matters just as much as challenge ability.

Sometimes, it's the reverse.

In fact, DH has demonstrated integrity in keeping his word to people to whom he has given his word. Are you suggesting that he go back on his word and break promises? Is taking back a promise to protect another individual how you define trustworthiness?

Your dishonesty and hierarchy are making this tribe look pretty weak right now.

I disaagree, Quin. I think our openness and loyalty is what makes this tribe strong.

I define trustworthiness as being loyal to people who deserve it.

[LoRab]

EBWOP: That you didn't like the strategies that were used, and that the strategies you had in mind weren't used.

linkitis: Apparently didn't need the EBWOP.

But how could they have been discussed if no one knew what they were? There was discussion of how to play. DH made a suggestion of how to place the tiles, which was a strategy based suggestion, and asked for input before submitting it. There was discussion of how to strategize searches. It included an article online, which I assume SVS found on a google search. What that you suggested wasn't talked about in figuring out how to approach the challenge?

And DH didn't throw you under the bus as a vote candidate. He suggested that you were one of 2 people he is considering for the vote. As I've shared, I'm in the same boat as he is. I value loyalty and I've given my word to people. It's not a tribe thing, it's an individual word thing.

This isn't mafia, so throwing under the bus doesn't really carry the same weight (no pun intended) and we need to vote for someone. Would you have preferred there be no discussion of the vote? How would you have preferred the vote discussion to happen?

I know the dynamic isn't the same. I'm not treating this as the same thing as mafia. But the fact remains that you may staked your word on it, but he is not somebody who can be trusted to work for the good of this tribe. You are not in his long term future, LoRab. I tell you this because I know who is.

I don't see what he's done that isn't for the good of this tribe.

And please, enlighten me.

[Quin]

And please, enlighten me.

You're going to have to earn it.

[DharmaHelper]

I might be inclined to vote for you. Why weren't you helping around camp today? I think you were being sneaky, and were looking for an idol. I think that enough shows that even while you and the rest of the tribe were sick you were more interested in your own self-preservation than helping at camp.

I think after putting together the winning strategy to give us food and water via reward, busting ass during the challenge, being the first person to find an item, I earned a nice stroll through camp, don't you?

I may not have gone fishing, or gone to get water, but my performance in the challenge provided us with both. And now we have eggs.

Is there anyone else you've got an eye on?

Got a problem with this too. Half the stuff you presented as the 'winning strategy' was stuff I'd already directed the tribe to in my goodnight post. You alone didn't win us the reward, in fact I think you screwed up more than anybody else by putting two of our biggest blocks together. That could have gone horribly wrong.

Finding the first item was a matter of probability. It doesn't earn you anything in my book.

Are you suggesting that because you found eggs you were valuable to the tribe? Unless you knew that by going there you'd find a chicken, you didn't. You got lucky. Or am I wrong?

These time zone differences are worse than I thought

Going to bed. I looked up a battleship strategy that gives a couple of tips that might help with placement and also searching. Might be a good idea for people to have a look before making any decisions.

[DharmaHelper]

All you've done is reiterate the same debunked contributions. You did nothing today that anybody else either didn't already or couldn't do. You've also proved that you're completely untrustworthy as a tribemate. Strength of integrity matters just as much as challenge ability.

Sometimes, it's the reverse.

In fact, DH has demonstrated integrity in keeping his word to people to whom he has given his word. Are you suggesting that he go back on his word and break promises? Is taking back a promise to protect another individual how you define trustworthiness?

Your dishonesty and hierarchy are making this tribe look pretty weak right now.

I disaagree, Quin. I think our openness and loyalty is what makes this tribe strong.

I would agree here, LoRab. Thank you.

[Quin]

What do you think you have, DH? I pointed the tribe to strategies. Said strategies were the same as many of the ones you were implementing on your own. And this isn't even the context of the beef we're having.

[Quin]

A 'loyal' ally would not be out searching for an immunity idol while his tribe mate was two challenges away from running out of energy.

[Quin]

Plus the whole everyone being sick thing. The reward we *might* get is no excuse.

[DharmaHelper]

What do you think you have, DH? I pointed the tribe to strategies. Said strategies were the same as many of the ones you were implementing on your own. And this isn't even the context of the beef we're having.

You said I oversold what I contributed to the challenge. You also said "Half" of what I contributed, you directed the thread to do first.

What I did:
- Placed the items
- Came up with the grid
- Helped to direct people to their assigned grids
- Through practicing the above strategy, hit the oar on my first guess.
- Provided a colored grid so people like Eloh could follow along easier

My questions are, which you haven't I don't think answered adequately, How have I oversold what I did, and what parts of what I did do you expect to take credit for based on "directing the thread" via the remarks "I looked up a battleship strategy that gives a couple of tips"

[LoRab]

To be fair, DH, that was a serious misuse of the word literally.

I define trustworthiness as being loyal to people who deserve it.

Then we have different definitions.

And please, enlighten me.

You're going to have to earn it.

If you're going to make an offer than involves my voting for someone that I promised I wouldn't vote against, then it's a no go. My integrity is worth more than some alleged information. Nice try, though.

[Quin]

What do you think you have, DH? I pointed the tribe to strategies. Said strategies were the same as many of the ones you were implementing on your own. And this isn't even the context of the beef we're having.

You said I oversold what I contributed to the challenge. You also said "Half" of what I contributed, you directed the thread to do first.

What I did:
- Placed the items
- Came up with the grid
- Helped to direct people to their assigned grids
- Through practicing the above strategy, hit the oar on my first guess.
- Provided a colored grid so people like Eloh could follow along easier

My questions are, which you haven't I don't think answered adequately, How have I oversold what I did, and what parts of what I did do you expect to take credit for based on "directing the thread" via the remarks "I looked up a battleship strategy that gives a couple of tips"

You placed items in a risky manner. If you'd looked at said strategies you'd have known one of the biggest tips is 'DON'T PUT BLOCKS SIDE BY SIDE'

Okay. You came up with the grid. See above.

You got the ore based entirely on luck. It is nothing more. It will never be anything more than luck. A 1 in 64 chance.

You can have being helpful. You can have the colour grid too. But INH and SVS did grids too, and you weren't the only one helping people like me catch up.

This isn't about me. Don't ask for 'my credit'.

[DharmaHelper]

Sorry, I did "oversell" the first guess thing. It was my second guess according to my reading back just now.

[Quin]

To be fair, DH, that was a serious misuse of the word literally.

I define trustworthiness as being loyal to people who deserve it.

Then we have different definitions.

And please, enlighten me.

You're going to have to earn it.

If you're going to make an offer than involves my voting for someone that I promised I wouldn't vote against, then it's a no go. My integrity is worth more than some alleged information. Nice try, though.

I didn't make you an offer. You can do what you like.

[LoRab]

To be fair, DH, that was a serious misuse of the word literally.

I define trustworthiness as being loyal to people who deserve it.

Then we have different definitions.

And please, enlighten me.

You're going to have to earn it.

If you're going to make an offer than involves my voting for someone that I promised I wouldn't vote against, then it's a no go. My integrity is worth more than some alleged information. Nice try, though.

I didn't make you an offer. You can do what you like.

You implied you might, based on saying I'd have to earn it. I'm not interested in earning enlightenment from you, then. To be more precise.

[LoRab]

You placed items in a risky manner. If you'd looked at said strategies you'd have known one of the biggest tips is 'DON'T PUT BLOCKS SIDE BY SIDE'

Except for the strategies that say: While some say not to put them side by side, it's actually a really good strategy to put them side by side.

Yes, it is risky, but some excellent strategies involve risk.

[S~V~S]

I'll answer you seriously. I think you're undervaluing my own contributions to the tribe. I wasn't here for the start of the challenge because I couldn't be. Otherwise, even while nobody else is here, I'm putting strategies forward and I'm putting my foot first to take care of the tribe.

I made no comments on your contributions, I wanted to let you have the floor before I did that. But you can't argue that what I said about SVS, INH, and myself taking charge of the challenge wasn't true.

It's possible you're right, and you do put strategies forward, and you do have the tribes best interest at heart. I'm a newcomer here, so I'd need to see that for myself or let you make your case.

While I have your attention, something's been nagging at me about the first challenge. From Scotty's write up, it sounded like DFaraday cost you guys the challenge. Scotty wrote that he "fell asleep" and that "the gap [left after the puzzle] was too much to make up."

So my question is, was that a 1-to-1 translation of what went down? And if so, why did you not, as a tribe, vote for DFaraday?

Because sig no showed. I have already said this. And all of us had trouble understanding the directions that day. And as I said, sig helped even less.

This is the first time we have had to do this type of thing.

I spent my lying in bed with my phone Mafia time reading GOC. So I may not post again for a few hours. When I saw that four of you were coming here I knew you were gonna pick us off first. It's what I would have done.

[S~V~S]

LoRab, the only thing missing that distinguishes 'suggesting strategies' and saying 'there are strategies' is me copy and pasting the damn thing on the thread. I told you to find them and by the looks of it nobody actually did.

What makes you think that no one looked at strategies? The items were placed based on strategy and the items were searched for based on strategy. There are multiple strategies for battleship that exist. The strategies chosen may not be the ones you would have chosen. They may not even be the ones that you found in the article you read in the quick google search you did. But that doesn't mean that someone else didn't find an article in a different google search. SVS even posted an article (demonstrating that it's factually untrue that nobody actually did).

The difference between "suggesting strategies" and "there are strategies" is that clearly you had a particular strategy in mind, and you are not happy that it was not the strategy that was used. But no one had any way of knowing what your opinion was about which strategy you would have preferred based on the one you read about because you didn't say which one it was. Therefore, someone using a different strategy (whether known through a google search or through life and playing battleship and already knowing strategy that exists) cannot imply that they didn't act strategically.

And you cannot claim that you made suggestions of what strategy should be used. Until you said differently, there was no way for anyone to know that you wouldn't have done things in exactly the same way, based on what you had posted before you went to bed.

I don't care that the strategies I had in mind weren't used. Not once did I say that.

I copied and pasted a strategy in thread and was told that we should not do that since Epi would probably do that too.

Gotta go shower lol.

[S~V~S]

I did it right after Quin mentioned Battleship strategies.

[LoRab]

Yes, exactly. So saying that no one looked up considered any strategies is not an accurate statement.

[S~V~S]

Yes, exactly. So saying that no one looked up considered any strategies is not an accurate statement.

I kind of meant it the other way, as a defense of Quin, but yeah, I see your point

And see, this is what I meant by hostility; not "hostile" per se, but both of our lynches were no brainers, a complete zero posts no show and a volunteer. We had no discussion or strife or accusations of *any* kind either time. I will think about it and do what is right for the tribe so going forward we can better come together.

I knew this was coming eventually, but I don't have to like it.

[DharmaHelper]

I'll answer you seriously. I think you're undervaluing my own contributions to the tribe. I wasn't here for the start of the challenge because I couldn't be. Otherwise, even while nobody else is here, I'm putting strategies forward and I'm putting my foot first to take care of the tribe.

I made no comments on your contributions, I wanted to let you have the floor before I did that. But you can't argue that what I said about SVS, INH, and myself taking charge of the challenge wasn't true.

It's possible you're right, and you do put strategies forward, and you do have the tribes best interest at heart. I'm a newcomer here, so I'd need to see that for myself or let you make your case.

While I have your attention, something's been nagging at me about the first challenge. From Scotty's write up, it sounded like DFaraday cost you guys the challenge. Scotty wrote that he "fell asleep" and that "the gap [left after the puzzle] was too much to make up."

So my question is, was that a 1-to-1 translation of what went down? And if so, why did you not, as a tribe, vote for DFaraday?

Because sig no showed. I have already said this. And all of us had trouble understanding the directions that day. And as I said, sig helped even less.

This is the first time we have had to do this type of thing.

I spent my lying in bed with my phone Mafia time reading GOC. So I may not post again for a few hours. When I saw that four of you were coming here I knew you were gonna pick us off first. It's what I would have done.

I know you said why you voted for sig, I just wanted a second viewpoint.

Also I want to clarify, I suggested we try for strategies that weren't easily googled, I didn't make any demands or anything similar.

[LoRab]

Yes, exactly. So saying that no one looked up considered any strategies is not an accurate statement.

I kind of meant it the other way, as a defense of Quin, but yeah, I see your point

And see, this is what I meant by hostility; not "hostile" per se, but both of our lynches were no brainers, a complete zero posts no show and a volunteer. We had no discussion or strife or accusations of *any* kind either time. I will think about it and do what is right for the tribe so going forward we can better come together.

I knew this was coming eventually, but I don't have to like it.

No brainers would be nice. Neither of ours were like that, as we described.

But in looking in the difference in responses to DH's post between DF and Quin, I see most of the hostility in the conversation for this tribal coming from Quin.

As I have said, I'm keeping my word to the people I have said I will protect.