Currents Mafia [END]

[Dyslexicon]

What do you mean two vote considerations? I think maybe you misunderstood something that I said; I'll consider anyone that's in my greys, which was more than two when I left. I think I did call him and FZ. out specifically though, so maybe that's what you're referring to?

I'm having a hard time reading speedchuck. I declared he was town earlier based on his effort, but there's something about his posts and tone that are nagging at me just a bit, which is why I've been poking at him perhaps a bit more than most others. I need to dive into his post history and re-assess to get a better handle on how I feel about him. Hope that makes sense.

Yeah, I was refering to you calling them two out specifically. I seem to remember you saying your vote would likely end up on one of them, but maybe I just made that up myself.

Actually, that town read felt a bit easy to me, as does the one you have on Luke imo. Maybe I'm biased or have a weird position in the site meta, but I've seen some very strong scum play from some players in the two games I've played here, so I'm not at least feeling inclined to follow consensus reads as much, or at least I feel I should be wary of that. I'd say LC would be my only real town feel, and him I haven't seen for a while. I don't know what I'm answering right now.

[Tangrowth]

Jay, I feel good so far about us mindmelding a bit, as well as about your efforts since you've unmasked yourself, so consider yourself to have a green color for now.

That said, I have a couple of questions for you:

1) Why did you wait until Day 1 was over halfway over to unmask yourself? What did you feel you were accomplishing by staying silent that whole time, while instead you could have been assisting thread conversation and hunting?

2) Why aren't you tinfoiling me at all right now? It's ironic perhaps that I feel this way, because I've strongly townread DDL and others as town before and received this response from them, but I'm just a little paranoid about the fact that you declared me to be your top read and you aren't taking beefs with me just yet. After I decimated town in Scrimmage (sorry, Dizzy ), I've observed that in games we've played together since you've been hesitant to read into immense effort on my part and sort as me town. So why do you feel that way here? Why haven't you expressed any doubt? Is it because you know I'm town?

[Dyslexicon]

I don't think I've ever caused this much read distress on D1 before. Either I got mislynched, or was soon not a consideration.

My apparent slimy earnestness pleases me.

Agh.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Question for the people who played in Blue vs. Red: was POE a concept that got a decent amount of discussion in that game?

[nutella]

Ok I'm feeling slightly better about FZ now. I'm switching my vote to INH because I agreed with marmot's thoughts there. (Maybe he just forgot about the game? Idk but I definitely expect more from INH)

MP, I got a bad feeling from your wall of text defending your style (right before LC made that post). It just felt like something you'd do as FEB.

JJJ, I'm out of time but I saw you asked me some questions and I'll try to answer them quickly

[Dyslexicon]

@FZ - Will you be able to provide some thoughts and reads on whoever you have that on in the game? I feel I don't quite know where your suspicions lie or if you have town reads and what not?

[Tangrowth]

I still have nutella as my top suspect for today.

I harbor a mild suspicion of FZ. because in our last outing, I was able to almost immediately identify her as a civilian, and the impression I had of her that brought me to that perspective is lacking here.

Going back to work. Lynch Epi everyone.

Your fascination with me is adorable.

Which outing was that, for reference?

[Dyslexicon]

Still kind of want to lynch Luke. But people doesn't seem that interested, which wants me to lynch Luke more. But I'll switch to Eloh for now. She was barely active in the Phenon game and I don't want a repeat of that, at least INH was very much present that game. Maybe that's terrible reasoning, but my lone vote isn't doing much right now.

Vote Eloh

[speedchuck]

Still kind of want to lynch Luke. But people doesn't seem that interested, which wants me to lynch Luke more. But I'll switch to Eloh for now. She was barely active in the Phenon game and I don't want a repeat of that, at least INH was very much present that game. Maybe that's terrible reasoning, but my lone vote isn't doing much right now.

Vote Eloh

I myself am mostly between Eloh and INH.

Is this a majority vote game, or are there softlynch/hardlynch requirements?

[Tangrowth]

Maybe you're being genuine, I don't know. I like the fact that you're at least considering things, but look at Speedchuck's list:
MP
Epi
Marmot
Long Con
JaggedJimmyJay
insertnamehere
Dyslexicon
Luke11646
nutella
FZ
DrWilgy
Eloh

The middle group was in blue. While you were suspicious of me at that time, you didn't say anything about Wilgy or Eloh. I thought that in mafia, we're trying to find the baddies, not the civvies, and if you were interested in his motives, why not inquire about the suspects and not the civvie? Why was it so important for you to understand why he thought someone, who was not even discussed much at that point, was a civ? I can't really understand this.


And by the way, I am more careful when it comes to talking about information. Remember that game you hosted (that I shall not name), where Epi and LC were doing everything they could to lynch me, and I wouldn't say anything of importance until I really lost it? That's how I play. The thing I don't hide, is my thoughts at any relevant point. I realise that it may make me look bad when I say someone might be suspicious, but then again not, at the same time, but I don't really care. I have nothing to hide.

What do you think of Nutella's post where she gives her reasoning for voting me? Please refer to its timing as well.

FZ., I really want to trust you, but this response further concerns me, most notably the orange stuff. Here's why:

You seem way more concerned in criticizing the way I went about something and justifying your inquiry of me for that reason, rather than trying to figure out if my manner of playing (even if it may be different than the way you would expect yourself to play in that situation) is indicative of whether or not I'm being genuine.

You preface your response with "Maybe you're being genuine", but then proceed to pretty much chastise my methods of hunting for townies rather than mafia. That is suspicious at face value; it displays a perspective that you're more interested in justifying a baddie read of me than in trying to solve me and understand where I'm coming from.

[Tangrowth]

I just destroyed that post and this thread by having a spoiler within a spoiler, so I took the liberty of editing it to fix the problem. Just so you all know.

[Dyslexicon]

Still kind of want to lynch Luke. But people doesn't seem that interested, which wants me to lynch Luke more. But I'll switch to Eloh for now. She was barely active in the Phenon game and I don't want a repeat of that, at least INH was very much present that game. Maybe that's terrible reasoning, but my lone vote isn't doing much right now.

Vote Eloh

I myself am mostly between Eloh and INH.

Is this a majority vote game, or are there softlynch/hardlynch requirements?

Pretty sure it's majority lynch. Take it from the player with ADD.

[Dyslexicon]

I just destroyed that post and this thread by having a spoiler within a spoiler, so I took the liberty of editing it to fix the problem. Just so you all know.

Hacks!

[Tangrowth]

I'm feeling inspired. I want to lynch FZ. I'm not letting the fear of mislynching her stand in the way. That response of hers really bothers me.

[nutella]

Ok Jay - I initially read you civ because I always do, lol, and I found your vompatti act genuine. As for the MP thing, again, those were just how my thoughts developed. I'm still wrestling with whether to tinfoil him as bad or to be cautiously trusting of his town appearance.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay, I feel good so far about us mindmelding a bit, as well as about your efforts since you've unmasked yourself, so consider yourself to have a green color for now.

That said, I have a couple of questions for you:

1) Why did you wait until Day 1 was over halfway over to unmask yourself? What did you feel you were accomplishing by staying silent that whole time, while instead you could have been assisting thread conversation and hunting?

All I had to accomplish was to entertain my extremely Mafia-weary self. I forced myself to Be All JJJ in Phenon despite miserable burnout and it made the game a lot less fun for me than it should have been. It's been too long since I have had a little fun in a game even at the expense of being valuable and I was willing to take my liberties. To play the game the way I play it exacts a toll, and eventually it becomes too much. Additionally it has given me a separate means of exploring the game from a different angle I've tried in the past but usually failed at: observing the action quietly and developing a perspective without cramming myself into everything. This probably isn't what I'm best at, but it's easier on my head and can still be productive.

2) Why aren't you tinfoiling me at all right now? It's ironic perhaps that I feel this way, because I've strongly townread DDL and others as town before and received this response from them, but I'm just a little paranoid about the fact that you declared me to be your top read and you aren't taking beefs with me just yet. After I decimated town in Scrimmage (sorry, Dizzy ), I've observed that in games we've played together since you've been hesitant to read into immense effort on my part and sort as me town. So why do you feel that way here? Why haven't you expressed any doubt? Is it because you know I'm town?

As I've said before, I don't think tinfoil for the sake of tinfoil is useful. It is possible you are mafia; I don't think it's probable. I deal in probables. I also haven't read you strongly because of your "effort"; I frankly don't care about that. As I said in my write-up, what I like most about your play so far is your investment in the strategic dialogue relative to the cop role because it recalls clearly the impact you made on Arrested Development Mafia. You have more reason than almost any other player in this game to genuinely care about that because you have personally seen to its success, and I thought your discussion on the matter looked authentic.

[Tangrowth]

Reading through FZ.'s response to Jay now. I think she's full of it, especially this:

This strikes me as a reach, considering MP is Ask About Every Read in the Entire Thread guy.

Like I said, it's interesting that he didn't ask about the suspects, only about one specific trusted one, who wasn't on others' list or a consensus among the players

I don't buy this explanation. I think she fabricated that suspicion of me. She doesn't seem to care about solving me; she only keeps coming with reasons to further her suspicion.

Let's lynch her.

If you disagree with me, tell me why.

[Dyslexicon]

I'm not too inspired by Nut now actually.

[Dyslexicon]

Scum the lot of you!

[speedchuck]

MP, you inspired me with your lack of fear. I'm coming aboard the FZ train.

[FZ.]

Jay, regarding your second reads post, I have a couple of comments regarding FZ:

That I've so many questions to ask stemming from 11 posts isn't ideal.

I wanted to single that out, because that expresses a problem I've been having with FZ. from the start of the game. I still don't really know where her head is at remotely, and I feel we have the potential to mindmeld pretty well just like you and I do. Hopefully she's spoken to that and responded to some of your beefs/inquiries here; I look forward to reading those myself.

I'll note separately that F.Z. has been the most animated respondent to criticism, there's not a lack of emotion here. I'll have to look back into some prior games to see if I can determine what meaning that has if anything.

To speak to this, since FZ. and I have played together fairly extensively when it comes to her history here on TS (and otherwise I've hosted her in Pikmin), I would say it's difficult to interpret FZ.'s emotional responses for any sort of alignment-indicative behavior. I've seen her get genuinely upset plenty of times as both alignments, particularly because she unfortunately has a tendency to get mislynched around these parts. I would say I've seen plenty of emotion from her when bad as well though.

Apart from that game when we were both bad and you dragged me with you when you went down, when exactly have you seen me as bad? Amazingly, I think I was bad only one more time here and I don't remember you being around that game. but maybe I'm wrong. Please enlighten me.


As for where I'm standing at the moment, I wanted to prepare a post with some of my reads, but I don't have time right now. I'll just say that at the risk of appearing like I'm doing a NoU, Nutella's vote for me, followed by this post which came when I think she had the most votes:

Also, having re-read the thread I do strongly suspect FZ. Something about her responses to Dizzy and MP felt off, and I didn't like her writeoff of Wilgy either. Wilgy feels like Wilgy, sure, but do you mean he feels like civ Wilgy or are you just putting off talking about him because you don't feel like it?

Plus her apparent no-u on MP is straight up suspicious as hell. I'm going ahead and placing a vote on FZ.

A little convenient if you ask me. She just found that post and agrees with it.
As for Wilgy, I didn't write him off. I actually think I said something similar last game. I can only get a feeling for Wilgy's alignment when the game moves from day 1.

I'm still not convinced on MP, so it's an option, though if he's good, I'd feel really bad if we lynch him after he just took his vote off of me. I hate lynching civvies and if he is good, he's trying a hell of lot more than most of the players.

And there's INH, who after his initial joking around and harping on the Epi-LC back and forth, hasn't said much since. I hate lynching someone who is not around. It didn't end well last game when we lynched SVS, but I'd rather lynch someone I'm not sure about and is not contributing at all, than someone who I'm a little more suspicious of but is trying harder and will be a bigger loss if we're wrong.

@linki: MP, I'm not interested in justifying a baddie read of you, I'm trying to figure it out. I get what you're saying, but I'm trying to understand why you would ask about the civvie read and not about the mafia read. What does it give you? Why aren't you interested in why he saw Eloh as bad? Or Wilgy?


Endless endless linkis

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

Right now, I've got a POE going on.

DO NOT LYNCH:
Dyslexicon
Marmot
Epignosis
JaggedJimmyJay
Long Con
speedchuck
Wilgy
MovingPictures07

NOT GONNA COMPLAIN:
FZ
nutella

MAYBE LYNCH:
Luke11646
insertnamehere
Elohcin

That's not to say that my not lynch people are all town, but in terms of who I want to lynch right now, this is my happy list. It's not very unique, but it's a start. I've got a few more thoughts that I think you'll get while catching up, but a current POE list never hurts.

speedchuck, I take beef with this list. Your MAYBE LYNCH includes the three players who are least involved in this game. That's easyville, and easy for a baddie to take no heat for.

[Tangrowth]

I generally agree with your reads here, Jay.

I have one question re: DrWilgy though since I haven't sorted him yet. You said:

...I see one post suitable to the character I’d associate with his town play which also inspires a question...

Can you elaborate upon this?

Wilgy has a unique manner of hunting; he considers angles that others don't and looks for clues in places others ignore. I think his perspective of the shift in voting being more likely representative of a save instead of a bus (when neither notion was a significant dialogue at that point to my memory and his own vote was in contrast to his concern) is suitable to the types of dynamics he pays attention to as a hunter. His standalone suspicion of Epi is another example.

That's a fair perspective. I have noticed him declare statements/observations like this before as town as well, but my memory on that front is too sketchy to make a firm meta determination.

[Dyslexicon]

I don't buy this explanation. I think she fabricated that suspicion of me. She doesn't seem to care about solving me; she only keeps coming with reasons to further her suspicion.

Let's lynch her.

If you disagree with me, tell me why.

I guess I could go with this. She's a mixed read for me, but has been at least a bit active.

Vote FZ

[Marmot]

Question for the people who played in Blue vs. Red: was POE a concept that got a decent amount of discussion in that game?

I didn't employ it, nor did many other folks by my recollection.

I had one top suspect, and another few who cycled in and out. Never did employ it though.

[Tangrowth]

I understand your response regarding my mannerisms. I would emphasize that they're non-alignment-indicative, but obviously you can do with that information however you wish. When I'm actually invested in games, I've grown accustomed to getting the eyeball. I'm not always good at dealing with it but feel free to suspect or prod me however you like, and I'll try to do my best to alleviate any concerns.

This cordial response is exactly the kind of thing that does not alleviate any concerns lol. But that doesn't mean I don't appreciate it. Mafia is a terrible game. o.o

[Elohcin]

I think my phone is playing tricks on me. I came in to vote and the poll said I had two votes and INH had 3. I voted INH for some assurance and after I hit submit the votes were all moved around. I'm confused.

[Dyslexicon]

Oh wow, suddenly everyone voted FZ.

[Tangrowth]

Bold assertion:

FZ. and nutella are mafia teammates.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Moved my vote to FZ. Her reflected suspicion upon MP looks fake.

[Dyslexicon]

I think my phone is playing tricks on me. I came in to vote and the poll said I had two votes and INH had 3. I voted INH for some assurance and after I hit submit the votes were all moved around. I'm confused.

Tell us your secrets!

[Tangrowth]

Ok I'm feeling slightly better about FZ now. I'm switching my vote to INH because I agreed with marmot's thoughts there. (Maybe he just forgot about the game? Idk but I definitely expect more from INH)

MP, I got a bad feeling from your wall of text defending your style (right before LC made that post). It just felt like something you'd do as FEB.

JJJ, I'm out of time but I saw you asked me some questions and I'll try to answer them quickly

1) Why were you feeling slightly better about FZ?

2) What about my post inspired a bad feeling, and why does it feel like something I'd do as a baddie as opposed to a townie?

[Tangrowth]

@FZ - Will you be able to provide some thoughts and reads on whoever you have that on in the game? I feel I don't quite know where your suspicions lie or if you have town reads and what not?

This x 9001.

[Marmot]

I'm feeling inspired. I want to lynch FZ. I'm not letting the fear of mislynching her stand in the way. That response of hers really bothers me.

Good for you! I'm happy for you.

[FZ.]

Reading through FZ.'s response to Jay now. I think she's full of it, especially this:

This strikes me as a reach, considering MP is Ask About Every Read in the Entire Thread guy.

Like I said, it's interesting that he didn't ask about the suspects, only about one specific trusted one, who wasn't on others' list or a consensus among the players

I don't buy this explanation. I think she fabricated that suspicion of me. She doesn't seem to care about solving me; she only keeps coming with reasons to further her suspicion.

Let's lynch her.

If you disagree with me, tell me why.

I give up, MP. If you look at it from my point of view, you're doing exactly what you're saying I'm doing. And calling everyone to follow you. If you're good, you really don't want to lynch me. If you're bad, go ahead. Problem is, this last post makes me think you're civvie, which makes this even sadder. I've seen you blindly and enthusiastically mislynch me more as a civvie.

[speedchuck]

@linki: MP, I'm not interested in justifying a baddie read of you, I'm trying to figure it out. I get what you're saying, but I'm trying to understand why you would ask about the civvie read and not about the mafia read. What does it give you? Why aren't you interested in why he saw Eloh as bad? Or Wilgy?

He's already answered this, so now I'm going to.

1. I had already been asked about my Wilgy and Eloh reads when he asked about Marmot. I had already answered. No reason for MP to ask.

2. Marmot is hard to read. Everyone agrees on this. MP may have been looking for insight, or picking my mind for my unusually-early townread on Marmot.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@linki: MP, I'm not interested in justifying a baddie read of you, I'm trying to figure it out. I get what you're saying, but I'm trying to understand why you would ask about the civvie read and not about the mafia read. What does it give you? Why aren't you interested in why he saw Eloh as bad? Or Wilgy?

This stuff in particular doesn't inspire me. MP asked about one stated read; there is no obligation to be curious about other reads too at the exact same moment.

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

Jay, I feel good so far about us mindmelding a bit, as well as about your efforts since you've unmasked yourself, so consider yourself to have a green color for now.

That said, I have a couple of questions for you:

1) Why did you wait until Day 1 was over halfway over to unmask yourself? What did you feel you were accomplishing by staying silent that whole time, while instead you could have been assisting thread conversation and hunting?

All I had to accomplish was to entertain my extremely Mafia-weary self. I forced myself to Be All JJJ in Phenon despite miserable burnout and it made the game a lot less fun for me than it should have been. It's been too long since I have had a little fun in a game even at the expense of being valuable and I was willing to take my liberties. To play the game the way I play it exacts a toll, and eventually it becomes too much. Additionally it has given me a separate means of exploring the game from a different angle I've tried in the past but usually failed at: observing the action quietly and developing a perspective without cramming myself into everything. This probably isn't what I'm best at, but it's easier on my head and can still be productive.

2) Why aren't you tinfoiling me at all right now? It's ironic perhaps that I feel this way, because I've strongly townread DDL and others as town before and received this response from them, but I'm just a little paranoid about the fact that you declared me to be your top read and you aren't taking beefs with me just yet. After I decimated town in Scrimmage (sorry, Dizzy ), I've observed that in games we've played together since you've been hesitant to read into immense effort on my part and sort as me town. So why do you feel that way here? Why haven't you expressed any doubt? Is it because you know I'm town?

As I've said before, I don't think tinfoil for the sake of tinfoil is useful. It is possible you are mafia; I don't think it's probable. I deal in probables. I also haven't read you strongly because of your "effort"; I frankly don't care about that. As I said in my write-up, what I like most about your play so far is your investment in the strategic dialogue relative to the cop role because it recalls clearly the impact you made on Arrested Development Mafia. You have more reason than almost any other player in this game to genuinely care about that because you have personally seen to its success, and I thought your discussion on the matter looked authentic.

Thanks for the response, Jay. This all makes sense.

[FZ.]

And MP, can you freaking stop posting for 1 minute, so I can actually manage to post?

[Tangrowth]

Apart from that game when we were both bad and you dragged me with you when you went down, when exactly have you seen me as bad? Amazingly, I think I was bad only one more time here and I don't remember you being around that game. but maybe I'm wrong. Please enlighten me.

As for where I'm standing at the moment, I wanted to prepare a post with some of my reads, but I don't have time right now. I'll just say that at the risk of appearing like I'm doing a NoU, Nutella's vote for me, followed by this post which came when I think she had the most votes:

Pikmin? I hosted that game and saw your FEB persona in action. You rocked it.

You've had an entire 48 day cycle to provide reads. You've largely failed to do so. Even now you could have thrown out some GTHs.

I don't like this either.

[Dyslexicon]

@FZ - What is the reason you're not voting anyone at this point?

[Tangrowth]

FZ., why do you care more about continuously bringing up past games and picking at the way I approached a conversation than providing your own reads?

[Tangrowth]

If you're town, give us reads now. That will be the best way to convince me you're genuine.

[Epignosis]

Hi MP! You're probably bad k

I'm going back to wanting to think this as well.

More wiggle words from the wiggly won.

[Epignosis]

I still have nutella as my top suspect for today.

I harbor a mild suspicion of FZ. because in our last outing, I was able to almost immediately identify her as a civilian, and the impression I had of her that brought me to that perspective is lacking here.

Going back to work. Lynch Epi everyone.

Your fascination with me is adorable.

Which outing was that, for reference?

Blue vs. Red

I am bewildered that FZ. is criticizing the notion of identifying the civilians given how ardently I defended her there.

Granted, I burned the town to the ground, but she didn't object to me calling her good.

[FZ.]

@linki: MP, I'm not interested in justifying a baddie read of you, I'm trying to figure it out. I get what you're saying, but I'm trying to understand why you would ask about the civvie read and not about the mafia read. What does it give you? Why aren't you interested in why he saw Eloh as bad? Or Wilgy?

This stuff in particular doesn't inspire me. MP asked about one stated read; there is no obligation to be curious about other reads too at the exact same moment.

Come on, he didn't question his suspect list at any point. He only questioned his Marmot list.

@linki: I just gave you a few names that bother me. I'm sorry I'm having trouble looking for suspects when I'm spending so much time defending myself.


endless linki: like I said, if you people stop posting and I don't waste my time trying to make my post go through, I can answer. I'm about to give up. This is super annoying. Suddenly, everyone thinks I'm bad.

[Tangrowth]

MP, you inspired me with your lack of fear. I'm coming aboard the FZ train.

What specifically inspired you?

[FZ.]

Epi, I didn't object to him calling Marmot good. I objected to MP questioning Chuck on calling Marmot good. Why doesn't anyone find that weird. I feel like I'm going insane

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I am bewildered that FZ. is criticizing the notion of identifying the civilians given how ardently I defended her there.

Granted, I burned the town to the ground, but she didn't object to me calling her good.

That's sort of why I asked. The revolution of publicly stated town reads on The Syndicate became popular through 2016 when FZ wasn't around, which might lend to her being perturbed by it here. It's not a point that moves me much, because I am pretty sure I voiced loud town reads of her in the 2015 GOC (and she of me) without it being an issue.

[Dyslexicon]

Vote Nutella