Currents Mafia [END]

[Epignosis]

First time cop covering.

I don't know what the fuck I'm doing.

[TheFloyd73]

Elochin will be replaced by Golden. Welcome!

[Dyslexicon]

Also, LC, I haven't been buddying you. You've had a very different vibe to me than last game we played and I think you've played a good game fwiw.

[Dyslexicon]

First time cop covering.

I don't know what the fuck I'm doing.

I don't know what the fuck any of that was lol. You would be my first pick to be teamed with FZ, but I assume LC left his hints clearly.

[Dyslexicon]

And welcome, Golden!

[Golden]

Three immediate thoughts

1) Two of marmot, inh, dizzy and Jay are bad. All we have to do is work out which two it is.

2) Yes, it's possible for Jay to roll bad people, lets not forget that.

3) I haven't been following the game in an analyzy way really, but here are some big things that I will note. Nutellas was a shit lynch choice, and MP was a shit NK choice, and so I think there's some juice there.

4) Lets not keep FZ alive the way they kept Jack alive in RvB, eh?

Jay - I want to see your FZ interactive analyses on the other three. You can throw me in if you like, since if you're civ from your perspective I'm in the pool.

Town is going to win this game. End of.

[Golden]

Dizzy - first question.

Why would you lynch one of the cop claims. Shouldn't you let the mafia do your work for you there?

Btw - as an observer, it seemed pretty clear to me that LC was the cop if FZ wasn't. Why did people who were there not pick up on this?

[Golden]

Ps props to epi for his cop cover.

[Dyslexicon]

Dizzy - first question.

Why would you lynch one of the cop claims. Shouldn't you let the mafia do your work for you there?

Btw - as an observer, it seemed pretty clear to me that LC was the cop if FZ wasn't. Why did people who were there not pick up on this?

I don't understand what you mean by the first question?
To the second, that wasn't clear to me at all, though I did think LC could possibly be cop, Epi actually claimed it. Either way, regardless of claims I thought FZ was the better lynch just for play in general regardless of claims.

[Golden]

You were implying that one of the people who claimed cop should be lunched. Why do you see that as a good strategic choice. Wouldn't keeping them alive and forcing the mafia to decide between killing the real cop or risking new red peeks be better?

Epi, did you suspect fz was lying?

[Dyslexicon]

I think initially I'm mostly suspicious about Marmot. Then Golden is pretty much an unknown entity, but hopefull that will change somehow.

[Golden]

I think initially I'm mostly suspicious about Marmot. Then Golden is pretty much an unknown entity, but hopefull that will change somehow.

Here's something that may help...

Ask epi about elos activity patterns.

[Dyslexicon]

You were implying that one of the people who claimed cop should be lunched. Why do you see that as a good strategic choice. Wouldn't keeping them alive and forcing the mafia to decide between killing the real cop or risking new red peeks be better?

Epi, did you suspect fz was lying?

I didn't even think that. I thought one of them was lying and therefore scum, and so one of those should be lynched and if wrong, we knew who to lynch next day. I didn't quite buy FZ's claim in the first place, I actually thought LC could be the cop from beforehand, but then Epi claimed cop which threw me off. I don't see this making much difference though - are you arguing this as a point of suspicion against me?

[Dyslexicon]

I think initially I'm mostly suspicious about Marmot. Then Golden is pretty much an unknown entity, but hopefull that will change somehow.

Here's something that may help...

Ask epi about elos activity patterns.

I've heard people say Eloh is more inactive as town, but also that she is inactive regardless. Last game she was town and had to be replaced. I'll rather try to read you though, since you're here. Hi.

[Epignosis]

You were implying that one of the people who claimed cop should be lunched. Why do you see that as a good strategic choice. Wouldn't keeping them alive and forcing the mafia to decide between killing the real cop or risking new red peeks be better?

Epi, did you suspect fz was lying?

Not at all. I was like

[Golden]

Yes. It's not as though civilians never have reason to lie about cop claims. It seems like an approach that risks lynching the real cop.

Having said that... given fz is actually bad I think it's the opposite in this case. It looks good on you - provided I'm convinced it was genuine. Which means I need to understand what your thought process was.

Would this be a normal response to multiple cop claims for you?

[Epignosis]

You were implying that one of the people who claimed cop should be lunched. Why do you see that as a good strategic choice. Wouldn't keeping them alive and forcing the mafia to decide between killing the real cop or risking new red peeks be better?

Epi, did you suspect fz was lying?

I didn't even think that. I thought one of them was lying and therefore scum, and so one of those should be lynched and if wrong, we knew who to lynch next day. I didn't quite buy FZ's claim in the first place, I actually thought LC could be the cop from beforehand, but then Epi claimed cop which threw me off. I don't see this making much difference though - are you arguing this as a point of suspicion against me?

I came in guns a blazin drunk as shit and decided to "cop cover" after I had sobered up considered what I had done. I had never done this activity before (cop covering, not getting drunk), and when FZ. claimed cop, I went full press on my assertion that LC and JJJ were teammates, which meant that if LC ended up being bad, FZ. might have a chance to survive the Night.

Talk about a kick in the crotch.

[TheFloyd73]

Due to the unfortunate mistake of this host, the poll for Day 3 hasn't been saved to be viewed on the Polls Thread. I apologise for this, I don't have an excuse for the circumstance.

[Dyslexicon]

Yes. It's not as though civilians never have reason to lie about cop claims. It seems like an approach that risks lynching the real cop.

Having said that... given fz is actually bad I think it's the opposite in this case. It looks good on you - provided I'm convinced it was genuine. Which means I need to understand what your thought process was.

Would this be a normal response to multiple cop claims for you?

Of course town can lie about being the cop, but scum has more incentive to lie. I guess what was leading my thoughts was that I didn't really buy FZ's claim initally, because of a lot of things but also it looked so convenient so close to end of day, also that she disappeared right after. I don't know all the players on this site very well, but my hunch is that many would not be as prone to fake claiming as on PerC. So if you ask if this is a normal response to me, I'd say that depend on who is claiming and in what game. I reacted to the situation at hand, and my logic was that either FZ or Epi should be lynched. Also, I thought LC was town, which made me even more sure on FZ and why I decided to follow LC's lead on JJJ in the end. Other than that, and I realize there's no way to verify this but whatever, I was having a social situation that I kind of had to pay attention to as well, so I was not constantly in the game. I don't even know if that clears things up, but main point was that I distrusted FZ and trusted LC to be town.

[Dyslexicon]

Pretty sure the poll said:

Fz - 1 - LC
JJJ - 2 - Epi, Dizzy
LC - 5 - FZ, Marmot, JJJ, Speed, INH

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Marmot]

Oh.

Well at least he got his reads out. Thanks LC.

[Dyslexicon]

Oh.

Well at least he got his reads out. Thanks LC.

I'm suspicious of you for raisins.

[Dyslexicon]

@Golden - Don't know if I answered your initial question or not. It's often not that easy for me to trace back the thoughts that I had cause my thinking tends to be rather convoluted. So ask again if you're still wondering, and I'll try again. Not quite sure exactly how you're judging this on an alignment axis, so you mind explaining that to me again?

Also, I have to sleep now. Good night.

[speedchuck]

I hate everything. I was gonna be here, but got too busy hanging out with my toilet, being sick for the 5th straight day.
Should have known anyway.

[insertnamehere]

Well fuckity fuck.

[MacDougall]

Just FYI this game is great, not many games I am uninvolved with keep my attention

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Hey y'all, my current Mafia focus has to be on prepping the crossover. I'll return to this when I can. At least the next lynch is clear cut.

[Epignosis]

Floyd, you confused FZ. the liar with Eloh the replaced. You crossed out FZ.'s posts and put Golden after it.

[speedchuck]

I feel like I might die tonight. Gonna get some reads in before night ends. I suggest that everyone, especially those on LC's town list, do so.

[Marmot]

Oh.

Well at least he got his reads out. Thanks LC.

I'm suspicious of you for raisins.

Right back at you.

[Epignosis]

Hi. I was sure a lot more people would check in by now, and I'd miss a lot.

Epi and LC have started the game strongly quite early. This is unlike the last heist game where they seemed relatively trusting of each other (and were both civvies). It feels genuine at the moment, especially since Epi just went back on his suspicion. We'll see. And I have no idea how Insertnamehere factors into things, but while the jokey atmosphere is not uncommon for day 0, I always feel like it's an easy way for baddies to blend in on day 0 and appear like they have no care in the world. So I'll be keeping an eye here.

Carry on.

The INH mention here seems rather out of place. "And I have no idea how Insertnamehere factors into things..."

So why bring him up if you have no idea?

INH suspicion +1

I'm LOL at JJJ trying to Vompatti, but it's going to be a real shame if he actually carries on for too long. If he's good this game, civvie JJJ is a lot more useful than civve Vompatti.

Eloh, Do you have baddie tells for Epi, or is your policy regarding his game similar to his own regarding your game?

I like this day 0 so far. Usually we do nothing until the next day starts.

An evil FZ. would hope that 3J would Vompatti as long as his heart desired.

3J suspicion +1

Spoiler: show

Vote FZ

@linki: Too many cats and I don't even know how to react to that vote.

@linki: Too many cats and I don't even know how to react to that vote.

Shock? Andger? Fear? Disguised love and admiration?
But you are the FZ that played on PerC?

I've never played with this cat person. Feels like Vompatty 2. No connection between what is going on, and his own actions.

@linki: What is PerC?

Huh, sorry. PerC is short for PersonalityCafe, which is my "home site", and I could've sworn there was a player called "FZ" that played one game there a while back but then disappeared. If it's not you then you have a mafia playing evil twin name brother or I have a shitty memory.

Nope, not me.

Shitty memory confirmed. I just checked and this person was called "FM." and not "FZ." But you may consider a DNA test.

So, what's going on?

This was following a second vote (after LC's). Dys gave no reasoning for the vote. Furthermore, this is one of those, "Oh golly gee have I played with you before?" "Nope wrong person!" "Okay!"

Dys suspicion +3

Spoiler: show

I'm going to start by saying that I hate games that start with me having to defend myself. It never ends well. Either I get lynched, or I spend the entire game trying to tell people that they are wrong, and everything I say just fits into their misconception of me being bad, and whether I succeed or not, I don't have much fun. Therefore, I'm going to do my best to defend myself, but I'm not going to go nuts when people decide to attack and tell me I'm No Uing, and silly stuff like that. This is how I play.
So:

A. MP, in general, this is day 1. Yes, more has happened than usual first days here, but still, it's not like I have evidence of someone actually being bad. I talk about what I read and pops to mind as I read it, and if someone pressures me for a read, I'll state what I see. What I saw (and forgive me for not fully reading your long strategy post), was you suggesting, or at least I assumed you were, that we play the cop card smartly, and a few fake claim. Thus, the baddies can't catch the real cop. Am I wrong about that?

Then, you give about 3-4 names in green, and the rest in grey. So far, so good. I can see you doing it both as a civ and as a baddie. Then, when someone else gives a coloured list, you don't ask about their suspects, but rather why that person trusts Marmot. How can you not see why this looks suspicious? It felt to me like someone trying to fish for reasons for trusting people. And the fact that you were first to give your list (no matter that it wasn't a coloured one, got me even more worried. It's like you were drawing out people to make such a list so you can use it.

Given all that, the fact that you joined the vote on me made me doubt your civviness.
I appreciate you trying to get to the bottom of things, and if you are a civvie, then yes, we should clear things fast, but please explain to me how your actions are from a civvie point of view.


Damn, I need to go. Plenty more to say. I hope to be back later before you all lynch me.

Thank you so much, FZ.; I understand much better now.

I really didn't fathom how my post inquiring about Marmot could be seen as suspicious because I didn't even think of that interpretation.

I can now comprehend how you reached that perspective, but it wasn't what I was accomplishing with that post. I specifically asked about Marmot because the rest of the reads seemed immediately agreeable or reasonable to me, and I have trouble reading Marmot especially early in games.

On reflection, I might not have made that same post if I realized the perspective that you spouted here.

I'm not one to exercise caution when discussing information in the thread, for better or worse, not because I'm careless but in this case because I just didn't think of it that way.

I still don't think it'll matter much though if everyone posts their damn reads, so that we don't have a situation like this.

Maybe you're being genuine, I don't know. I like the fact that you're at least considering things, but look at Speedchuck's list:
MP
Epi
Marmot
Long Con
JaggedJimmyJay
insertnamehere
Dyslexicon
Luke11646
nutella
FZ
DrWilgy
Eloh

The middle group was in blue. While you were suspicious of me at that time, you didn't say anything about Wilgy or Eloh. I thought that in mafia, we're trying to find the baddies, not the civvies, and if you were interested in his motives, why not inquire about the suspects and not the civvie? Why was it so important for you to understand why he thought someone, who was not even discussed much at that point, was a civ? I can't really understand this.


And by the way, I am more careful when it comes to talking about information. Remember that game you hosted (that I shall not name), where Epi and LC were doing everything they could to lynch me, and I wouldn't say anything of importance until I really lost it? That's how I play. The thing I don't hide, is my thoughts at any relevant point. I realise that it may make me look bad when I say someone might be suspicious, but then again not, at the same time, but I don't really care. I have nothing to hide.

What do you think of Nutella's post where she gives her reasoning for voting me? Please refer to its timing as well.

"Wah wah wah you didn't talk about Wilgy or Eloh."

Elohden trust +1

Spoiler: show

F.Z.

Her first post is rather difficult to follow. It has already been discussed some; I have a couple different questions based upon the highlighted content:

Spoiler: show

Hi. I was sure a lot more people would check in by now, and I'd miss a lot.

Epi and LC have started the game strongly quite early. This is unlike the last heist game where they seemed relatively trusting of each other (and were both civvies). It feels genuine at the moment, especially since Epi just went back on his suspicion. We'll see. And I have no idea how Insertnamehere factors into things, but while the jokey atmosphere is not uncommon for day 0, I always feel like it's an easy way for baddies to blend in on day 0 and appear like they have no care in the world. So I'll be keeping an eye here.

Carry on.

~ Can you expand on what differences you perceive in the LC/Epi interaction early in this game versus the previous heist (Blue vs. Red?) and what that difference means to you? It is unclear. LC and Epi seemed to trust each other at the start of last game. LC acted like he's Epi's body guard or something, and when I asked Epi about it, he preferred not to answer. ANd like I said, they were both civvies. So when they started going at each other right at the start, it felt different. The jokey tone made me doubt my initial gut feeling that the difference meant something, so my post there just conveys that I've noticed something and I'm keeping an eye

~ What was the purpose or inspiration for mentioning INH in this post? when I thought that maybe that exchange could be innocent, INH was someone I thought could be trying to make something more of that situation with his facetious attitude. Like I said, it's easy to look at ease on the first day when you're bad. I don't think INH has posted much or at all since then.

Spoiler: show

This feels like you're trying to draw out the cop. And it feels even worse when it was your idea in the first place to give a list of civvie reads.


I think I might vote for you MP.

This strikes me as a reach, considering MP is Ask About Every Read in the Entire Thread guy.Like I said, it's interesting that he didn't ask about the suspects, only about one specific trusted one, who wasn't on others' list or a consensus among the players

Spoiler: show

To be fair, I think that Nutella and I are getting accused for similar things. If it's between me and her, I'll vote Nutella to save myself, but I can't say I really see what Epi is seeing. People keep thinking that only baddies say something but contradict themselves in the same post to leave every option open later on. That's bullshit. As a baddie, I've tried to look determined plenty of times. Going after someone relentlessly, and I'm often a lot more hesitant as a civvie because the pressure of making a mistake is making me doubt myself.

Regarding the highlighted portion, it'd be ideal if you could expand, FZ, on the specifics of Epi's suspicion of nutella that you don't agree with. You've sort of paired yourself with her by stating that the cases are similar and that she'd only be your vote if self-preservation demands it. Tell me more about the similarities you observe. At them time, I felt that we were both being suspected for basically one post which people viewed as containing both smudging someone and taking it back, or something like that. Apparently, I wasn't being accusatory enough in my post, just throwing something out there and going back on it. That's how I perceived that accusation, and thought Nutella was being accused for the same thing. But since then Epi has explained that his suspicion was for different reasons, and I can't say her post with her vote put me at ease. I will address that later on.

That I've so many questions to ask stemming from 11 posts isn't ideal.

I'll note separately that F.Z. has been the most animated respondent to criticism, there's not a lack of emotion here. I'll have to look back into some prior games to see if I can determine what meaning that has if anything.

My answers in Orange in the text. You're also very welcome to check my previous games when I'm suspected. Let me know what you find...

Upon review, I see that 3J already picked up on the INH line that I did earlier, and overall, this exchange looks like a genuine dig for information.

3J trust +2

Also that ellipsis.

Spoiler: show

Jay, regarding your second reads post, I have a couple of comments regarding FZ:

That I've so many questions to ask stemming from 11 posts isn't ideal.

I wanted to single that out, because that expresses a problem I've been having with FZ. from the start of the game. I still don't really know where her head is at remotely, and I feel we have the potential to mindmeld pretty well just like you and I do. Hopefully she's spoken to that and responded to some of your beefs/inquiries here; I look forward to reading those myself.

I'll note separately that F.Z. has been the most animated respondent to criticism, there's not a lack of emotion here. I'll have to look back into some prior games to see if I can determine what meaning that has if anything.

To speak to this, since FZ. and I have played together fairly extensively when it comes to her history here on TS (and otherwise I've hosted her in Pikmin), I would say it's difficult to interpret FZ.'s emotional responses for any sort of alignment-indicative behavior. I've seen her get genuinely upset plenty of times as both alignments, particularly because she unfortunately has a tendency to get mislynched around these parts. I would say I've seen plenty of emotion from her when bad as well though.

Apart from that game when we were both bad and you dragged me with you when you went down, when exactly have you seen me as bad? Amazingly, I think I was bad only one more time here and I don't remember you being around that game. but maybe I'm wrong. Please enlighten me.


As for where I'm standing at the moment, I wanted to prepare a post with some of my reads, but I don't have time right now. I'll just say that at the risk of appearing like I'm doing a NoU, Nutella's vote for me, followed by this post which came when I think she had the most votes:

Also, having re-read the thread I do strongly suspect FZ. Something about her responses to Dizzy and MP felt off, and I didn't like her writeoff of Wilgy either. Wilgy feels like Wilgy, sure, but do you mean he feels like civ Wilgy or are you just putting off talking about him because you don't feel like it?

Plus her apparent no-u on MP is straight up suspicious as hell. I'm going ahead and placing a vote on FZ.

A little convenient if you ask me. She just found that post and agrees with it.
As for Wilgy, I didn't write him off. I actually think I said something similar last game. I can only get a feeling for Wilgy's alignment when the game moves from day 1.

I'm still not convinced on MP, so it's an option, though if he's good, I'd feel really bad if we lynch him after he just took his vote off of me. I hate lynching civvies and if he is good, he's trying a hell of lot more than most of the players.

And there's INH, who after his initial joking around and harping on the Epi-LC back and forth, hasn't said much since. I hate lynching someone who is not around. It didn't end well last game when we lynched SVS, but I'd rather lynch someone I'm not sure about and is not contributing at all, than someone who I'm a little more suspicious of but is trying harder and will be a bigger loss if we're wrong.

@linki: MP, I'm not interested in justifying a baddie read of you, I'm trying to figure it out. I get what you're saying, but I'm trying to understand why you would ask about the civvie read and not about the mafia read. What does it give you? Why aren't you interested in why he saw Eloh as bad? Or Wilgy?


Endless endless linkis

Another by-the-by mention of INH. "And there's INH." Her commentary on INH sounds like she has a teammate who has taken a powder. I've been there numerous times, and it's frustrating, but what can one do? FZ. employs recency bias by reminding us of how lynching S~V~S worked out for us, and while riding the fence, she says she'd rather lynch someone who isn't contributing than someone she's more suspicious of, which I don't buy: Eloh has done nothing and FZ. says nothing about her- probably because she knows that's an avenue that won't get her far as long as I'm alive, but she also knows killing her isn't a good idea either.

INH suspicion +3

@linki: MP, I'm not interested in justifying a baddie read of you, I'm trying to figure it out. I get what you're saying, but I'm trying to understand why you would ask about the civvie read and not about the mafia read. What does it give you? Why aren't you interested in why he saw Eloh as bad? Or Wilgy?

This stuff in particular doesn't inspire me. MP asked about one stated read; there is no obligation to be curious about other reads too at the exact same moment.

Come on, he didn't question his suspect list at any point. He only questioned his Marmot list.

@linki: I just gave you a few names that bother me. I'm sorry I'm having trouble looking for suspects when I'm spending so much time defending myself.


endless linki: like I said, if you people stop posting and I don't waste my time trying to make my post go through, I can answer. I'm about to give up. This is super annoying. Suddenly, everyone thinks I'm bad.

3J trust +1

I gave my reads on MP, Nutella and also INH. I feel like I wasted too much time defending myself which is why I hate when that happens. It's a circle thing where you're poked for not giving names, when all you do all the time is defend yourself. Yet, I feel I still talked about suspicions. I'm sorry you don't like them. That doesn't make me bad. It either makes me wrong, or it makes me smarter than the rest.

I object that FZ. offered any opinion of INH. She gave a bunch of this or that commentary.

INH suspicion +2

Civ reads:

Epi
Wilgy
Chuck


Oh, did I forget to mention that LC is not up my trusted list either. Sorry if I'm suspicious of almost everyone who is suspicious of me. But he was "pinged" by my one post, and ever since is letting everyone else do the fighting while he is sitting back and not really saying anything.

I'm good and Wilgy was good. I found no reason why FZ. found speedchuck to be good.

speedchuck suspicion +1

Do you actually read my posts? Or are you too vain and sure of yourself that you just fit everything to you wrong (or evil) theory? You want to lynch me, lynch me, just don't say false things when you haven't read what I write. You'll be viewed differently after I'm lynched. Pretty sure twisting my words will come bite you in the ass when I'm gone. I explained what I felt about Nutella now. I explained to JJJ why I said what I said about INH, and also commented on the fact he isn't here now.

So, to be quite clear: you suspect MP is opportunistic in this moment and is not genuine in his suspicion of you? Yes or no.

Like I said, his obsession is making me fear I was wrong about him and he might be a civ. Not willing to let my suspicion die yet, but obsessed MP is usually civvie



linki: MP, I'm sorry. I let frustration get the better of me. Shouldn't happen.

This question is superfluous if 3J is on FZ.'s team, and would only serve to fan the flames of her lynch.

3J trust +1

Civ reads:

Epi
Wilgy
Chuck


Oh, did I forget to mention that LC is not up my trusted list either. Sorry if I'm suspicious of almost everyone who is suspicious of me. But he was "pinged" by my one post, and ever since is letting everyone else do the fighting while he is sitting back and not really saying anything.

Why Wilgy as town?
I don't think I really see clear town for any of these, but am interested to hear your explanation.

Chuck feels genuine. He gives straight answers. Doesn't feel like he's going around.
Wilgy is Wilgy. Like I said, I said it last game on day 1. I saw nothing that could concern me, and I was right. I'm not seeing it now either. My gut tells me he's okay, but I'll wait for next day to decide. In any case, he's someone I don't want lynched today.
And Epi just feels good. Trying to look at things from different angles. Not following the crowd, and thinking for himself.

"Feels genuine."

Nah.

speedchuck suspicion +1

Poll closed. I guess we wait for EOD. Will there be nightchat?

CFD = Chinese Fire Drill
Switching very quickly from one lynch to another with little time to spare

Thanks

Looking at the timing of this, it would seem to me that speedchuck saw FZ.'s post when he tried to post, and responded in the form of his addendum to his original post. It doesn't look like a teammate answered the question in the thread.

speedchuck trust +1

Sorry, I'm kind of exhausted after last night, and had a tough day, so not really in the mood for mafia. I did skim a little, and MP, you do have a point with JJJ. I expect more from JJJ when he's a civ. Right now, it feels as if he's asking a lot of questions, but not really stating any thoughts. It's like he's from the UN. There's an example in his post below.


But, to answer your question, JJJ:

Meh. RIP Nutella.

All this shifting of votes at the end of the day feels to me like someone wanted to cause chaos. Wish I knew who. I'm going to sleep. Will think about it tomorrow.

Why are you inclined to view the end of day sequence as being orchestrated by a "someone" as opposed to the collective of voters all involved in that motion? What does that mean to you, and what candidates would you assert there are to fill the role of "someone"?

I didn't like the way votes kept changing. I'm not a fan of that unless you have a good reason to change your vote at the last minute, like your top suspect convinced you there's a chance you might be wrong about them. I disagree with Epi (I think it was him), who said it helps civvies learn more later on. I think it's an easy way to get away with your vote. "It's exciting, I love these kind of votes", "I wanted to see what others would do", and stuff like that. I think it makes it harder to maintain accountability.
To answer your last question, I'd have to go back and read the last few pages of last day, and I'm not in a state to do it right now. Sorry. Maybe tomorrow.

Vague agreement with MP.

3J trust +2

Spoiler: show

So, looking back I found this post by MP and it made me think:

Long Con, I'm similarly troubled by your contributions at the moment; I don't understand why you're jumping in after the fact and expressing agreement with this Wilgy argument.

Can you do something else for now and explain some of those reads on your rainbow in greater detail, if you don't mind? Even a brief sentence or whatever would be fine. Because I don't understand how you're coming to most of those, including the bad read of me. As far as I'm aware, the only thing you said to me earlier was "MP you're probably bad k" or something like that. So by all means, if there's something you want to talk about, let's do it.

First, we have LC thinking my one post on day 0, is so bad that it's enough to vote for me. Then, he disappears and lets all the rest do the dirty job of actually conversing with me on the matter.
After the lynch is over, he doesn't have anything new to add. All he says about me again, is how that one post at the beginning was just so bad, that he has to stick to his instincts. It doesn't matter that when asked why he didn't play a more active role at the end of the day he says: "I wasn't even that sure FZ was bad" or something in those lines. When having to give something, he resorts back to that first post. No regards to what I said later.

After that, his only contribution is to back Wilgy up in his conversation with Epi. Notice he is not taking a stand about Epi's alignment, he's just agreeing with Wilgy that basically, everyone can have their own opinions...Seriously? Feels like he's trying to be more involved without saying anything.

And it's only when JJJ starts asking questions about my post lynch reaction, that he suddenly thinks that I'm manufacturing an opinion with the appearance of civviness:

Sorry, I'm kind of exhausted after last night, and had a tough day, so not really in the mood for mafia. I did skim a little, and MP, you do have a point with JJJ. I expect more from JJJ when he's a civ. Right now, it feels as if he's asking a lot of questions, but not really stating any thoughts. It's like he's from the UN. There's an example in his post below.


But, to answer your question, JJJ:

Meh. RIP Nutella.

All this shifting of votes at the end of the day feels to me like someone wanted to cause chaos. Wish I knew who. I'm going to sleep. Will think about it tomorrow.

Why are you inclined to view the end of day sequence as being orchestrated by a "someone" as opposed to the collective of voters all involved in that motion? What does that mean to you, and what candidates would you assert there are to fill the role of "someone"?

I didn't like the way votes kept changing. I'm not a fan of that unless you have a good reason to change your vote at the last minute, like your top suspect convinced you there's a chance you might be wrong about them. I disagree with Epi (I think it was him), who said it helps civvies learn more later on. I think it's an easy way to get away with your vote. "It's exciting, I love these kind of votes", "I wanted to see what others would do", and stuff like that. I think it makes it harder to maintain accountability.
To answer your last question, I'd have to go back and read the last few pages of last day, and I'm not in a state to do it right now. Sorry. Maybe tomorrow.

I don't see anything wrong with JJJ's questions. I have the same questions when I read your post. "...someone wanted to cause chaos. Wish I knew who..." I, too, felt like there was no central mastermind inciting chaos. This feels more like you are manufacturing an opinion with the appearance of civ-mindedness... are you accusing Epi of being the one?

So what I see here, is someone that throws around an accusation to appear like he's hunting, disappears and lets others be responsible for the lynch, sticks to that initial suspicion without barely giving anything else, wagons on others' opinions and calls others bad without backing it up (MP).

I think LC is bad. I don't like to vote so early in the day, but I don't know how much I'll be around, so I'm placing my vote here for now. When I have time, I'm going to look at JJJ...because.

3J trust +1

A lot has happened since I was last here. I'm not really caught up, because I just came from a friend whose father just passed away, and wasn't really in the mood to read.

You lynched Wilgy What was that about? All I kept seeing was people asking whether other people objected voting for Wilgy. There was no real good case on him. JJJ is really not looking very civvie at the moment. After looking to be very neutral to me for a very long time, It feels like last day he was trying to lead a lynch so he comes off looking as a civvie who isn't afraid of the consequences. It feels manufactured to me. Couple that with MP's death, and I really think we are looking at a potential mafia.

LC with his tunnel vision on me, is just annoying. It feels like all he's doing is looking at my posts with his decision already made, and everything is twisted to fit into his theory. I'm done. If he's good, then whatever. If he's bad, it feels like I'm the only one seeing it. I seriously don't get why people are so trusting of him.

Lastly, I was thinking the exact same thing Marmot was, regarding Luke's death and Dizzy's potential part in it. The only problem I have with this theory is, why would Dizzy go to the trouble of trying to lynch Luke. At that point no one seemed to take Luke that seriously. If he thought Luke was the cop, wouldn't it be better to wait until the night to take him out? So the cop, for example won't try to find his ties and look into people he thought were connected to him?

Spoiler: show

3J trust +1
Dys suspicion +3

By the way, why didn't Eloh and INH vote last day?

Is she expecting anyone to seriously come in and answer for these people? What possible answers was she looking for, especially with regard to the latter person?

INH suspicion +2

I still need to ask: Is there a reason why you asked people if they have a reason to oppose a Wilgy lynch and not just simply asked them what they thought about Wilgy instead?

My question focuses on civilian indicators which would give me a reason to lynch someone else. The decision had to be made while the thread was stagnating against the activity of the burglary at the worst time. It was crickets in here and someone had to galvanize people into a lynch, so that's what I did. It didn't work out, shit happens.

What's the difference to you?

When you ask people what they think about someone, they actually have to formulate an opinion and have to think more carefully on what they say and do. When you ask if they oppose a lynch, they have to think of a good reason to oppose the lynch. It seems harder to come up with a good reason to prevent a lynch. That way, they lynch becomes easier. Was wondering if that's what you were trying to achieve.

3J trust +1

It means that anyone can ask questions. I don't think I see anything civvie like in asking questions. It's a way to avoid being looked at, because you were only asking questions. You weren't really pointing the finger at me. The UN council comparison is a figure of speech meant to say you're on the fence. Not taking sides. I guess you'd have to be from where I am, to get that...Though you changed your behaviour since then. It actually worries me more, because it feels like it was a change done to please the critics.

Can you elaborate on JJJ's change and how it pleases the critics?

I think he has recently looked more active in hunting baddies. It is possible that he has found his footing in the game and is starting to become the civvie JJJ I've come to expect, but the way he acted in the early stages of the game is definitely not what I would expect from his civvie persona. First of all, he Vompattied and only started saying substantial stuff when a few people (including myself) said they want more from him. The thing is, when he came out of the Vompatti persona, his questions didn't feel like someone trying to really find baddies. It felt as though he's asking questions for the sake of looking like he's involved. Then, after the first day, MP gave this big post (which I admit I still haven't finished reading), which was a case on JJJ, and I said I agreed with him. MP was killed that night, and suddenly, JJJ started giving more. More accusations, more serious ISOs and stuff like that. Does JJJ usually take time to warm up? I remember him going strong from the get go.

"I think he has recently looked more active in hunting"
"It is possible he found his footing"
etc.

Hedged language abounds.

3J trust +2

Voting insertnamehere.

Why?
What's really the case against INH besides him not being around when it really matters?

Spoiler: show

It really sucks having absent teammates, doesn't it?

INH suspicion +2

This is really not a good week to mafia for me, but I'm really trying. Looks like we're already in the graveyard. Where the hell is everyone? I'm going out and will be back in about 4 hours, but won't have much time.

I'd like to hear the case on INH.
I'd like to hear more from Dizzy. No one answered me if they think if it's likely Dizzy as a baddie would try to lynch the person he thought was the cop, and not just try to NK him instead.
I'd really like Eloh to show up and grace us with her wisdom.

There are a few people I'm considering for the lynch, but I think we are getting to a point where a mistake could be crucial, and it needs to be discussed.

Two subtle defenses of INH and Dys. The comment on Eloh looks snotty.

INH suspicion +1
Dys suspicion +1
Elohden trust +1

And the smoking gun:

Spoiler: show

Okay, I really didn't want to do this, and I hoped it might not come to this, but like I said, this is a really bad time for me to play mafia, and I can't be here at all today, and we're getting to the stage where if we mislynch again, we are very close to losing. So I'm doing this, because there's a good chance I'm getting lynched and dying anyway, so here goes:


I AM THE COP

I peeked WIlgy night0. I told you he was good. You went and lynched him when I was gone.
I peeked Epi night1, because after we mislynched Nutella, who Epi went after, I doubted my initial trust of him and added with the fact I felt he was being different from last game, I wanted to make sure. I got civ.

Lastly, I peeked LC tonight because duh, I was suspicious of him and told you all he was bad. I was right. Once I knew he was mafia, I thought I'd sit back a little and see who he might be working with. Hence I didn't vote for him yet and wanted to see what he said and how he reacted to other people.

If you view the thread, you will see that I'm telling the truth. We really need to lynch LC. I think there's a chance JJJ is working with him, because of his "theory" about LC and I being on the same team. I told you it's laughable.

I'm really sorry I'm dropping this bomb and leaving, but I have no choice. You'll just have to decide whether you believe me or not, and no doubt, LC will try to manipulate you now into believing I am lying, so please just go back and read the thread. I left the hints subtly, but they are there.
Funnily, I guess the cop role, which is my first time ever getting it on the syndicate, by the way, made me act less natural than my usual self. I got really frustrated on the first day, when you almost lynched me. I'm sorry for that, but I guess the upside is, I never got NK.

And with that, I'm voting LC, and leaving. I know I'll probably get NK tonight, but I think it's better than to get lynched now.

This falls into my category of "lynch a civilian to provide evidence that someone else is not bad with him and therefore not bad," and in this case, that someone is 3J.

3J suspicion +1

++++

Given that MP suspected FZ. and was killed, and then Luke suspected Dys and was killed, and given the above, I am calling the mafia team FZ., INH, and Dys.

Good game.

[Marmot]

I'm surprised anyone believe Epignosis's cop claim even for a second. But I guess if you don't know him, it's easier to believe such things.

[Epignosis]

I'm surprised anyone believe Epignosis's cop claim even for a second. But I guess if you don't know him, it's easier to believe such things.

Same.

I really don't know the first thing.

[Marmot]

Epignosis! You've just succeeded in posting pyramiding spoiler tags!!!

[Marmot]

I'm surprised anyone believe Epignosis's cop claim even for a second. But I guess if you don't know him, it's easier to believe such things.

Same.

I really don't know the first thing.

Claiming to have missed 2 PMs was a dead giveaway.

[Epignosis]

Epignosis! You've just succeeded in posting pyramiding spoiler tags!!!

I was wondering what was weird about the formatting.

[Marmot]

Do you think FZ opted to fakeclaim on her own, or that another player (in this case Dizzy) may have proposed the idea?

[Epignosis]

Fuck claims. FZ has been way more scummy than LC has been to me.

I've read LC way more town than FZ throughout the game. But I may suck.

Says these things but ends up voting 3J.

Dys, why didn't you vote for FZ.?

[Epignosis]

Do you think FZ opted to fakeclaim on her own, or that another player (in this case Dizzy) may have proposed the idea?

I don't know. FZ. is smart enough to pull that ruse on her own.

[speedchuck]

I see about 95% eye-to-eye with Epi's FZ interaction ISO. The other 5% isn't worth worrying about. Good post.

[Golden]

I love love love epis post. Some notes:

1) it barely explores marmot at all, who is still in the mix. Don't worry about speed, lc green peeked him.

2) I think it's enough for me to take jay out of the poe for now, but I'm wary because we still don't know just how good jays baddie game may be

3) id comfortably lynch inh at this point.

[speedchuck]

I love love love epis post. Some notes:

1) it barely explores marmot at all, who is still in the mix. Don't worry about speed, lc green peeked him.

2) I think it's enough for me to take jay out of the poe for now, but I'm wary because we still don't know just how good jays baddie game may be

3) id comfortably lynch inh at this point.

This, though we're lynching FZ first. :P

Also, I'm more worried about JJJ than Marmot. Marmot feels distinctly different than scum marmot, and also seems to be in a pretty good place.
JJJ scares me, because I have no idea what he's capable of as scum.
Dizzy's still more likely than either one. I *think* we have similar scum/town metas, outside of the gifs.

[TheFloyd73]

Floyd, you confused FZ. the liar with Eloh the replaced. You crossed out FZ.'s posts and put Golden after it.

Thank you for pointing that out. Sorry, been caught up with a tsunami of work and head's only partially screwed on at the moment.

[speedchuck]

D1 gut should not be ignored. Man. Good job surviving till today, FZ. Really.

[Dyslexicon]

@Epi - Don't understand your point about me thinking I had played with FZ before. You can check PerC if you want, this person called FM. with a dot after played and I thought it was the same person (remembered it as FZ. when I saw FZ.' name here). Blagh. I honestly thought it was the same person.

I can't answer to the stuff that FZ said, so I have no comments on that really.

Also, I voted for FZ the whole fucking time EoD. I only voted JJJ when LC asked me to. Was this unclear somehow? I get that you are confirmed town, but god damn.

[Golden]

Dizzy, gun to head, who is the baddie team?

[Dyslexicon]

Dizzy, gun to head, who is the baddie team?

Marmot and JJJ.
Gun to head. BUT I haven't done the work and looked through the FZ-stuff.

[Dyslexicon]

Dizzy, gun to head, who is the baddie team?

Already kind of disagree on my answers. >_>
Marmot and INH maybe.

[Epignosis]

@Epi - Don't understand your point about me thinking I had played with FZ before. You can check PerC if you want, this person called FM. with a dot after played and I thought it was the same person (remembered it as FZ. when I saw FZ.' name here). Blagh. I honestly thought it was the same person.

I can't answer to the stuff that FZ said, so I have no comments on that really.

This is Mafia. In Mafia, people tell lies and pretend things.

Also, I voted for FZ the whole fucking time EoD. I only voted JJJ when LC asked me to. Was this unclear somehow? I get that you are confirmed town, but god damn.

It's crystal clear. You want credit for a vote you didn't stick with, and you want LC to shoulder the responsibility for the vote you ultimately made.

[Dyslexicon]

@Epi - Don't understand your point about me thinking I had played with FZ before. You can check PerC if you want, this person called FM. with a dot after played and I thought it was the same person (remembered it as FZ. when I saw FZ.' name here). Blagh. I honestly thought it was the same person.

I can't answer to the stuff that FZ said, so I have no comments on that really.

This is Mafia. In Mafia, people tell lies and pretend things.

Also, I voted for FZ the whole fucking time EoD. I only voted JJJ when LC asked me to. Was this unclear somehow? I get that you are confirmed town, but god damn.

It's crystal clear. You want credit for a vote you didn't stick with, and you want LC to shoulder the responsibility for the vote you ultimately made.

I'm not even going to answer this. You can't dispute facts even if you're confirmed town.