Mass Effect Mafia (END)

[DrWilgy]

Gfish, I'm assuming you think I'm town.

Is this true?

[DrWilgy]

JoH, you were quick to ask me a devil's advocate question, but I don't believe you commented on my thoughts.

Why?

[gfishfunk]

If this were true, I doubt you would've posted the following -

To respond to DrWigly - The bolded players either have a similar read to others or copied other random folks for their own reads. Late posts showing new highly town reads appear more genuine to me. Refusal to participate is neither here nor there but depends on reasoning.

To extrapolate further, I highly doubt any member of a faction is going to nominate a member of their own faction as their MOST townie read. Instead, they will likely choose a person that they genuinely believe is town. I would then disjunction possible scum connections in this manner.

With this post, you effectively gave anyone that you'd be hunting a way out. A means of seeing what you want and giving it to you. You nullified your hunt at my opposition.

Why? All that information you were gathering is null beyond this post.

I assumed no one else was going to answer at that point. I already got what I wanted out of it.

And yes, people are malliable -- but scummers scramble. I like that you are posting something of substance finally.

[gfishfunk]

Gfish, I'm assuming you think I'm town.

Is this true?

Yes - slight town read. Sticking to your own guns, disagreeing with my meaningless and arbitrary games and refusing to play - town move. Disagreeing but posting anyway - scum move. Shurgging and shooting from the hip - very town move (that others made).

Switched my vote to Nifty, but that is mostly because it didn't need to be where it was at the time (Dom) and I was trying to push pressure.

[DrWilgy]

I assumed no one else was going to answer at that point. I already got what I wanted out of it.

And yes, people are malliable -- but scummers scramble. I like that you are posting something of substance finally.

"Finally"

what's the aggression for?

[Dyslexicon]

Alright, think I'll unvote Bob. Don't know quite where to move my vote. Concidering Gfish and Llama. Votes are very spread out. That's fun, but directionless. So many people not voting.

Vote Gfish

For now.

@Jack, any reason you aren't voting anyone even if you have a scum read in Gfish?

I like to vote once and I'm weighing my options.

Voted early in Phenom and got shot for my troubles.

Going to change my vote to Jack. What SVS pointed out, plus this post I'm quoting doesn't look good to me. Don't see what Phenon has to do with this in terms of voting or not voting, also Jack you never answered why only vote once?

Vote Jack

[gfishfunk]

I assumed no one else was going to answer at that point. I already got what I wanted out of it.

And yes, people are malliable -- but scummers scramble. I like that you are posting something of substance finally.

"Finally"

what's the aggression for?

Probably the wrong word: my read of you early was stating a few tings but not providing anything of substance. Now you are putting some solid stuff out there (whether I agree or disagree is immaterial).

Didn't mean to sound snarky.

[Adam]

I am voting thellama

He's at the intersection of the Venn diagram of players I have scum reads on and players who have votes on them. I also think it's a little weird that more people aren't interested in Long Con and llama's back and forth, almost like some people are studiously avoiding getting involved.

[gfishfunk]

I am voting thellama

He's at the intersection of the Venn diagram of players I have scum reads on and players who have votes on them. I also think it's a little weird that more people aren't interested in Long Con and llama's back and forth, almost like some people are studiously avoiding getting involved.

I don't have enough reads on Long Con yet, and Llama I've gone back and forth on.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I like to vote once and I'm weighing my options.

Voted early in Phenom and got shot for my troubles.

Why only once? I don't understand the reason for that, can you explain it to me?

I come across as jumpy when using my vote as a gun like a shit bank robber, waving it around and threatening people.

In the end, I can only use my vote like a gun in the hands of a true American, to shoot one player. So why vote everywhere?

In Phenom, I decided to break this habit to try to get more out of my vote so to speak, and voted Scotty. This was immediately pounced upon as my least genuine vote (cause it was), resulting in my death.

This has cemented my strategy. I vote once at the end of the phase unless I am lynch leading.

[S~V~S]

MP Rainbow #2

Spoiler: show

colonialbob
DrWilgy
S~V~S

gfishfunk
thellama73

Adam
CaptainNifty
Dyslexicon
Epignosis
Fredwood
Immortal_Raven
Jackofhearts2005
Long Con
nutella
Silver Lantern
sprityo
TonyStarkPrime

Dom

Willing to actually throw gfish into the very slight town reads because I think our different approaches to the game as well as a misunderstanding and some major brief tunneling on my part clouded my judgment; I feel alright about his approach to solving the game.

Here is an idea. (I post them as I think of them)

Post ONE player you think is likely town. Very simple. If you say yourself, I vote for you.

mine: colonialbob.

Choices for Most Town Read:

Silver Lantern - gfishfunk
Long Con - MovingPictures07
MovingPictures07 - DrWilgy
gfishfunk - colonialbob
thellama73 - Don't tell me what to do

People who have yet to respond:
Adam
CaptainNifty
colonialbob
Dom
DrWilgy
Dyslexicon
Epignosis
Fredwood
Immortal_Raven
Jackofhearts2005
nutella
sprityo
S~V~S
TonyStarkPrime

I guess I trust MP most.

Jack you list MP as your most trusted, but with the exception of Dom, his list is not that radically different from Nutellas. Why did her list draw the scorn, and his your most trusted ranking? MP greenlisted Bob and gfish too, which were two of the people you singled out on her list.

[DrWilgy]

With att that intel gathering gfish, whom do you want to die. How does it relate to your hunting?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Went ahead and voted GFish. Wigly's posts are convincing on top of my suspicions.

[Dyslexicon]

I am voting thellama

He's at the intersection of the Venn diagram of players I have scum reads on and players who have votes on them. I also think it's a little weird that more people aren't interested in Long Con and llama's back and forth, almost like some people are studiously avoiding getting involved.

I actually am interested in it, and I could consider this vote as well. Could you talk more about the diagram of scum reads thing? And who are the some people avoiding getting involved, anyone in specific?

[Jackofhearts2005]

MP Rainbow #2

Spoiler: show

colonialbob
DrWilgy
S~V~S

gfishfunk
thellama73

Adam
CaptainNifty
Dyslexicon
Epignosis
Fredwood
Immortal_Raven
Jackofhearts2005
Long Con
nutella
Silver Lantern
sprityo
TonyStarkPrime

Dom

Willing to actually throw gfish into the very slight town reads because I think our different approaches to the game as well as a misunderstanding and some major brief tunneling on my part clouded my judgment; I feel alright about his approach to solving the game.

Here is an idea. (I post them as I think of them)

Post ONE player you think is likely town. Very simple. If you say yourself, I vote for you.

mine: colonialbob.

Choices for Most Town Read:

Silver Lantern - gfishfunk
Long Con - MovingPictures07
MovingPictures07 - DrWilgy
gfishfunk - colonialbob
thellama73 - Don't tell me what to do

People who have yet to respond:
Adam
CaptainNifty
colonialbob
Dom
DrWilgy
Dyslexicon
Epignosis
Fredwood
Immortal_Raven
Jackofhearts2005
nutella
sprityo
S~V~S
TonyStarkPrime

I guess I trust MP most.

Jack you list MP as your most trusted, but with the exception of Dom, his list is not that radically different from Nutellas. Why did her list draw the scorn, and his your most trusted ranking? MP greenlisted Bob and gfish too, which were two of the people you singled out on her list.

I didn't like Nut's answer to my questions.

You didn't like my tone cause it sounded like an interrogation. It was meant to.

I don't see how you could townread Bob, GFish and me at the same time. Too much Bob content is aimed at me. Too much Jack content is aimed at GFish. I find Nut's reads dishonest/made up.

[Dyslexicon]

I come across as jumpy when using my vote as a gun like a shit bank robber, waving it around and threatening people.

In the end, I can only use my vote like a gun in the hands of a true American, to shoot one player. So why vote everywhere?

In Phenom, I decided to break this habit to try to get more out of my vote so to speak, and voted Scotty. This was immediately pounced upon as my least genuine vote (cause it was), resulting in my death.

This has cemented my strategy. I vote once at the end of the phase unless I am lynch leading.

I don't remember how you voted in Phenon. I also don't have the same relation between you changing your vote and you getting killed, but it's possible that you do of course.

[Long Con]

I am voting thellama

He's at the intersection of the Venn diagram of players I have scum reads on and players who have votes on them. I also think it's a little weird that more people aren't interested in Long Con and llama's back and forth, almost like some people are studiously avoiding getting involved.

I think it's weird as well, thank you for noticing.

[Tangrowth]

I'm here now, should be around regularly until EoD. Catching up quickly.

[gfishfunk]

Went ahead and voted GFish. Wigly's posts are convincing on top of my suspicions.

I will answer your question when you answer mine. Who is the most town person to you? One person who is not you.

[S~V~S]

I am voting thellama

He's at the intersection of the Venn diagram of players I have scum reads on and players who have votes on them. I also think it's a little weird that more people aren't interested in Long Con and llama's back and forth, almost like some people are studiously avoiding getting involved.

I think it's weird as well, thank you for noticing.

I feel pretty good about you, and waffled on him, but not waffled enough to not see this as perhaps civ v civ. I actually want to hear what Epi says about him. That will go far for me towards deciding how I feel about it.

[Jackofhearts2005]

JoH, you were quick to ask me a devil's advocate question, but I don't believe you commented on my thoughts.

Why?

Cause it was a question about strategy. We disagree. Whatever. I think you are town and I'm not gonna fight you over it.

I like playing devil's advocate.

[Adam]

I am voting thellama

He's at the intersection of the Venn diagram of players I have scum reads on and players who have votes on them. I also think it's a little weird that more people aren't interested in Long Con and llama's back and forth, almost like some people are studiously avoiding getting involved.

I actually am interested in it, and I could consider this vote as well. Could you talk more about the diagram of scum reads thing? And who are the some people avoiding getting involved, anyone in specific?

The diagram was just my way of pointing out that the only person who has votes out of my scum reads was llama, which is why i went that direction. I posted some reads a few hours ago, and haven't seen anything from llama to flip him out of the bottom chunk of the list.

As to who's avoiding getting involved, it's no one specific but the discussion as a whole. S~V~S commented on it, I noticed. But LC and llama are both making very strong meta allegations at the other, much stronger than most of the other verbal sparring we've seen so far. I would just expect more people to have chimed in on it at least a little bit, especially those who have more experience with the Syndicate meta.

[Tangrowth]

Dizzy beat me to it.

Gfunk, all this does is set up Wifom for baddies and give uneeded info to mafia teams.

If you'd like to trigger discussion via this method, this is not the way to do so.

We hunt baddies, not civilians. My civ reads are mine to have but not to paint targets.

I disagree with this line of thinking, but I have no desire to get into an argument about it and obviously you're allowed to play this way if you wish.

Anyway, I don't think this looks bad on gfish as a result.

[S~V~S]

MP Rainbow #2

Spoiler: show

colonialbob
DrWilgy
S~V~S

gfishfunk
thellama73

Adam
CaptainNifty
Dyslexicon
Epignosis
Fredwood
Immortal_Raven
Jackofhearts2005
Long Con
nutella
Silver Lantern
sprityo
TonyStarkPrime

Dom

Willing to actually throw gfish into the very slight town reads because I think our different approaches to the game as well as a misunderstanding and some major brief tunneling on my part clouded my judgment; I feel alright about his approach to solving the game.

Here is an idea. (I post them as I think of them)

Post ONE player you think is likely town. Very simple. If you say yourself, I vote for you.

mine: colonialbob.

Choices for Most Town Read:

Silver Lantern - gfishfunk
Long Con - MovingPictures07
MovingPictures07 - DrWilgy
gfishfunk - colonialbob
thellama73 - Don't tell me what to do

People who have yet to respond:
Adam
CaptainNifty
colonialbob
Dom
DrWilgy
Dyslexicon
Epignosis
Fredwood
Immortal_Raven
Jackofhearts2005
nutella
sprityo
S~V~S
TonyStarkPrime

I guess I trust MP most.

Jack you list MP as your most trusted, but with the exception of Dom, his list is not that radically different from Nutellas. Why did her list draw the scorn, and his your most trusted ranking? MP greenlisted Bob and gfish too, which were two of the people you singled out on her list.

I didn't like Nut's answer to my questions.

You didn't like my tone cause it sounded like an interrogation. It was meant to.

I don't see how you could townread Bob, GFish and me at the same time. Too much Bob content is aimed at me. Too much Jack content is aimed at GFish. I find Nut's reads dishonest/made up.

So how is MP your most trusted when he pretty much did the same thing?

[Tangrowth]

Let's talk a little more about the Syndicate meta: Is it typical for Long Con and llama to butt heads like this?

I wouldn't say it's normal, no, but it doesn't particularly surprise me either.

[Long Con]

I am voting thellama

He's at the intersection of the Venn diagram of players I have scum reads on and players who have votes on them. I also think it's a little weird that more people aren't interested in Long Con and llama's back and forth, almost like some people are studiously avoiding getting involved.

I actually am interested in it, and I could consider this vote as well. Could you talk more about the diagram of scum reads thing? And who are the some people avoiding getting involved, anyone in specific?

The diagram was just my way of pointing out that the only person who has votes out of my scum reads was llama, which is why i went that direction. I posted some reads a few hours ago, and haven't seen anything from llama to flip him out of the bottom chunk of the list.

As to who's avoiding getting involved, it's no one specific but the discussion as a whole. S~V~S commented on it, I noticed. But LC and llama are both making very strong meta allegations at the other, much stronger than most of the other verbal sparring we've seen so far. I would just expect more people to have chimed in on it at least a little bit, especially those who have more experience with the Syndicate meta.

I just want to chime in to say Llama's "meta allegations" on me were nowhere in the vicinity of "strong".

[Tangrowth]

Where is Epi?

Reading your latest fucking novel, Mr. King.

Do you like it?

I thought its very existence was bewildering: I recall you saying those lists were a waste of time that could better be spent figuring out mafia.

Sure, I did say that, but I had just spent like 100 posts (not quite, but you get the idea) thoroughly exploring the thread and throwing out my reads. Figured I might as well shoot the breeze with it since some HCRers were interested in it.

Plus, you know me, I won't pass up any opportunity to post more.

[Jackofhearts2005]

MP Rainbow #2

Spoiler: show

colonialbob
DrWilgy
S~V~S

gfishfunk
thellama73

Adam
CaptainNifty
Dyslexicon
Epignosis
Fredwood
Immortal_Raven
Jackofhearts2005
Long Con
nutella
Silver Lantern
sprityo
TonyStarkPrime

Dom

Willing to actually throw gfish into the very slight town reads because I think our different approaches to the game as well as a misunderstanding and some major brief tunneling on my part clouded my judgment; I feel alright about his approach to solving the game.

Here is an idea. (I post them as I think of them)

Post ONE player you think is likely town. Very simple. If you say yourself, I vote for you.

mine: colonialbob.

Choices for Most Town Read:

Silver Lantern - gfishfunk
Long Con - MovingPictures07
MovingPictures07 - DrWilgy
gfishfunk - colonialbob
thellama73 - Don't tell me what to do

People who have yet to respond:
Adam
CaptainNifty
colonialbob
Dom
DrWilgy
Dyslexicon
Epignosis
Fredwood
Immortal_Raven
Jackofhearts2005
nutella
sprityo
S~V~S
TonyStarkPrime

I guess I trust MP most.

Jack you list MP as your most trusted, but with the exception of Dom, his list is not that radically different from Nutellas. Why did her list draw the scorn, and his your most trusted ranking? MP greenlisted Bob and gfish too, which were two of the people you singled out on her list.

I didn't like Nut's answer to my questions.

You didn't like my tone cause it sounded like an interrogation. It was meant to.

I don't see how you could townread Bob, GFish and me at the same time. Too much Bob content is aimed at me. Too much Jack content is aimed at GFish. I find Nut's reads dishonest/made up.

So how is MP your most trusted when he pretty much did the same thing?

I'm not town per MP.

So how does my logic against Nut apply to MP at all?

[Tangrowth]

I'll just drop a post every few quotes or so as I read.

How about some serious reads, Llama?

Serious reads? Okay.

I distrust Bob and Long Con.

As much as I hate to say it, I think Dom is civ.

I like Dyslexicon, and would be surprised if he/she/it is mafia.

You seem a little testy, which is a good look for you, usually.

Why do you think Dom is civ? I have problems telling at times, with the way he just rapid fires questions out like he does, good or bad.

I don't know the HCR people really, so I'll just develop those assessments based on how I feel about them largely within this game. So this list will be more so a meta list for those I know and a first impressions and likely more relevant to actual reads list for those I do know.

Re: the Syndicate people, just a general disclaimer that these are my general assessments of these folks, and that I do not vouch for their universal accuracy or agreement with how other players may view them.

Syndicate folks:

Spoiler: show

Dom - Depends on how busy he is, which can affect his posting frequency and general effectiveness, but nonetheless contributes well even under limited pressure. Dom always likes to poke and prod, asking questions, typically ones that no one else thinks to ask, which can be a source of suspicion but also of unique and great insight.

DrWilgy - Loves to play with WIFOM and general mindfuckery. Loves to make gambits and play with an air of unpredictability and I'd say he always with a carefree demeanor. Tends to be a bit more susceptible to paranoia as a member of the town. His contributions can be underrated unfortunately, however, due to his demeanor.

Dyslexicon - Carefree and fun. Often suspicions are built around a healthy dose of tone-based observations and paranoia, but don't let that fool you into thinking Dizzy is a one-man pony; Dizzy can make some very analytically-driven insightful observations as well. I'm not sure I can say much as to differences between Dizzy's town and mafia game since I've only played 1 cycle of a game with a mafia-aligned Dizzy.

Epignosis - Assertive, bold, and confident. May become a thread leader, especially when no such leader doesn't already exists. It's not necessarily out of character for him to post less, especially on D1, though if he's busy and sometimes he likes to observe and then pounce once he sees something to interrogate or a way to get a reaction. Likes pressuring players. Likes to build proper cases, which can range from incredibly detailed and researched meta observations (some of the best I've ever seen), to grammatically-driven analysis (he is an English teacher after all), and to heavily analytical voting record insights and post behavior interpretations. He is a straight shooter, but don't put any sort of gambit past him either. I would say he's very difficult to sort into town or mafia generally, especially based on meta, but I think I have noticed a slight trend in that he tends to tunnel more when mafia and be more likely to work with and consider fellow town reads' thoughts when town, even if he's always stubborn.

Long Con - Crafty, cunning, and one of the most convincing liars you'll ever meet (when he's bad, but occasionally when he's town as well). He can be prone to make observations that come from a unique mindset as well which can get him into similar situations as Dom; it can present him with unwarranted suspicion but also with an intriguing and valuable perspective into other players' behavior. His game is an incredibly mechanical game of deception when he's mafia; I'd say less careful and more 'heart on the sleeve's when he's town. Across both alignments I'd say he may be more apt to put stock into meta assessments than the average Syndicateer, and that he's better at using meta to his advantage when developing reads than most.

nutella - Reasonable and insightful, usually all the while keeping a reasonable post count (unlike yours truly, who needs too many posts to make his points). Unfortunately I'd say she is often misunderstood and mislynched as town, which is a shame, because she can really outplay the field when she's firing on all cylinders (see: Phenon). Sometimes she can become boxed in by uncertainty, talking herself in and out of thoughts about someone, and a lack of assertive reads, but I think these can all be incredible strengths and often are. nutella is always very quick to recognize when she might be tunneling or have an unreasonable expectation of someone's behavior, and I think that's an incredibly strong trait, especially when she's town. When she's mafia I think she displays a bit more confidence and tunneling, and I think people are too willing to trust her when she's bad and the reverse when she's not for some reason, so watch out.

sprityo - Like Dizzy, I don't have quite the extensive meta history with sprityo as I do the other Syndicate players on this list (whom I've played and witnessed many games from), but don't get me wrong; he can be a very formidable asset in this community just like Dizzy. Unfortunately I would say sprityo has a tendency to get lynched early in games in general, which is a shame, because as the game continues I feel he develops a better footing and gradually becomes more talkative and analytical, whereas early on in games he can be more quiet and tone-based. I would say he is a unique strength in an ability to wrap his head around very complex role madness setups. Hell, just look no further than the clusterfuck (Phenon) he just hosted if you don't believe me.

S~V~S - An incredible adversary, S~V~S and I almost never see eye to eye. But that's just because she approaches this game in a very different way than I do, and that's probably a good thing since I'm not very good. She's a brute force of insightful tone-based assessments, able to draw insight from even the simplest tone tick that ends up being accurate a stunning amount of the time. As town I'd say she tends to be a bit more emotionally tumultuous in her tone, and like LC, less careful and mechanical. She is also assertive and prone to tunneling across both alignments, but perhaps a bit more assertive and tunnely as town than when mafia. Don't let that persuade you from taking her seriously though; usually there's a good reason she won't let something go as town, and she is very good at conversing with other players, especially those she town reads, and taking what they have to say into consideration. But watch out, she'll pull the wool over everyone's eyes as mafia; she's a serious FEB.

thellama73 - Supatown. Very assertive with his reads, very tone-based and meta-based, especially early on in games, then later can drift more towards vote analysis. Loves reaction baiting and gambits. Doesn't post with as much frequency as he did when he first started playing mafia, but he contributes plenty with each post, even if many times it's with reaction baiting. As I mentioned earlier, I would say he is a bit more carefree and willing to throw out crazy statements when town, but he's capable of anything when bad, so don't put anything past him. Historically he also loves to distance from and bus his teammates, so never exclude him from suspicion even if he has a stellar voting record. An incredibly cunning baddie.

HCR folks:

Spoiler: show

Adam - Inquisitive, I like it. Seems reasonable, down-to-earth, insightful while avoiding verbose posts.

CaptainNifty - I like that he threw out a read with his first post even if he was late to the party. That shows initiative. Very clear with his thoughts and reads.

colonialbob - Talkative, seems we may be likely to see eye to eye and/or mindmeld due to similar perspectives so far. I like that he seems to be actively solving the game to the best of his ability.

Fredwood - I subbed into Phenon, but was able to play with Fred a bit there. He seemed a bit shy, but was nonetheless a very adept and capable player. Not sure yet how I feel about him this game, looking through his 6 posts leaves with me little to assess.

gfishfunk - Bold, aggressive. I think we got off on the wrong foot, and I'm still not entirely sure what to make of him, but I love the effort that he's putting forth.

Immortal_Raven - Hard to tell so far with only 3 posts with almost no game-related content; I look forward to hearing more.

Jackofhearts - I'm most familiar with JOH, but somehow I don't think we've played together for that many game cycles even across a few games now. Very good at game solving, talkative, willing to question anyone about anything.

Silver Lantern - I didn't really get to interact with SL in the Phenon game; I think he was dead when I replaced in. I haven't gotten a handle on him here yet either, but he seems reasonable, inquisitive, and nice. I like his activity.

TonyStarkPrime - Pretty much no content here. Come on and post more, TSP, so I can get to know you and play with you!

I'm really looking forward to playing with all of you HCR folks and being able to write a much better meta list next time around, even if I won't actually do it.

I am really glad you did this; the detail is what I would expect from you.

Linki @Adam, No, not in general.

Can you clarify what you mean here, S~V~S? Like, did you feel this helped you sort me in-game at all or what?

[Dyslexicon]

The diagram was just my way of pointing out that the only person who has votes out of my scum reads was llama, which is why i went that direction. I posted some reads a few hours ago, and haven't seen anything from llama to flip him out of the bottom chunk of the list.

As to who's avoiding getting involved, it's no one specific but the discussion as a whole. S~V~S commented on it, I noticed. But LC and llama are both making very strong meta allegations at the other, much stronger than most of the other verbal sparring we've seen so far. I would just expect more people to have chimed in on it at least a little bit, especially those who have more experience with the Syndicate meta.

Alright, seems I missed your reads. For me, I can feel myself being biased towards Llama cause I just like him, which should not interfere with my judgement ideally. I think LC is town, so I am paying attention to what he's saying. I also feel Llama hasn't really made a strong alligation as much as he was retorted, if that makes sense.

[S~V~S]

@MP, yeah it did. That felt very forthright and organic, it did not feel like you were trying to use it for *reasons*. If you get my drift.

[Dyslexicon]

Let's talk a little more about the Syndicate meta: Is it typical for Long Con and llama to butt heads like this?

I wouldn't say it's normal, no, but it doesn't particularly surprise me either.

What's your read on Llama?

[Tangrowth]

I am voting thellama

He's at the intersection of the Venn diagram of players I have scum reads on and players who have votes on them. I also think it's a little weird that more people aren't interested in Long Con and llama's back and forth, almost like some people are studiously avoiding getting involved.

I haven't thought much of LC v. Llama's back and forth. I'll have to revisit it. What do you specifically gain from it?

[gfishfunk]

The diagram was just my way of pointing out that the only person who has votes out of my scum reads was llama, which is why i went that direction. I posted some reads a few hours ago, and haven't seen anything from llama to flip him out of the bottom chunk of the list.

As to who's avoiding getting involved, it's no one specific but the discussion as a whole. S~V~S commented on it, I noticed. But LC and llama are both making very strong meta allegations at the other, much stronger than most of the other verbal sparring we've seen so far. I would just expect more people to have chimed in on it at least a little bit, especially those who have more experience with the Syndicate meta.

Alright, seems I missed your reads. For me, I can feel myself being biased towards Llama cause I just like him, which should not interfere with my judgement ideally. I think LC is town, so I am paying attention to what he's saying. I also feel Llama hasn't really made a strong alligation as much as he was retorted, if that makes sense.

I'm putting Dyslexicon in my strong town reads.

Llama, JoH, or Adam as my strongest scum reads...but......

I would lynch Immortal_Raven for failing to post straight up.

[S~V~S]

The diagram was just my way of pointing out that the only person who has votes out of my scum reads was llama, which is why i went that direction. I posted some reads a few hours ago, and haven't seen anything from llama to flip him out of the bottom chunk of the list.

As to who's avoiding getting involved, it's no one specific but the discussion as a whole. S~V~S commented on it, I noticed. But LC and llama are both making very strong meta allegations at the other, much stronger than most of the other verbal sparring we've seen so far. I would just expect more people to have chimed in on it at least a little bit, especially those who have more experience with the Syndicate meta.

Alright, seems I missed your reads. For me, I can feel myself being biased towards Llama cause I just like him, which should not interfere with my judgement ideally. I think LC is town, so I am paying attention to what he's saying. I also feel Llama hasn't really made a strong alligation as much as he was retorted, if that makes sense.

THIS^^^

I feel better about LC than Llama, but not enough to vote for Llama.

[Tangrowth]

Jack you list MP as your most trusted, but with the exception of Dom, his list is not that radically different from Nutellas. Why did her list draw the scorn, and his your most trusted ranking? MP greenlisted Bob and gfish too, which were two of the people you singled out on her list.

I haven't been able to really sort any feelings on JOH yet, but this is an incredible question.

[Dyslexicon]

I'm putting Dyslexicon in my strong town reads.

Llama, JoH, or Adam as my strongest scum reads...but......

I would lynch Immortal_Raven for failing to post straight up.

Can you explain your Adam read? Going to see if you've mentioned Jack earlier.
Overall the participation is a bit lower than I expected. But most games have their lurkers.

[Tangrowth]

I didn't like Nut's answer to my questions.

You didn't like my tone cause it sounded like an interrogation. It was meant to.

I don't see how you could townread Bob, GFish and me at the same time. Too much Bob content is aimed at me. Too much Jack content is aimed at GFish. I find Nut's reads dishonest/made up.

What about it is unbelievable? Couldn't she think that it's town v. town v. town? I just don't quite get how you're coming to this conclusion.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Alright, think I'll unvote Bob. Don't know quite where to move my vote. Concidering Gfish and Llama. Votes are very spread out. That's fun, but directionless. So many people not voting.

Vote Gfish

For now.

@Jack, any reason you aren't voting anyone even if you have a scum read in Gfish?

I like to vote once and I'm weighing my options.

Voted early in Phenom and got shot for my troubles.

Going to change my vote to Jack. What SVS pointed out, plus this post I'm quoting doesn't look good to me. Don't see what Phenon has to do with this in terms of voting or not voting, also Jack you never answered why only vote once?

Vote Jack

Explain to me what SVS pointed out. In your own words.

[Dyslexicon]

I'm putting Dyslexicon in my strong town reads.

Llama, JoH, or Adam as my strongest scum reads...but......

I would lynch Immortal_Raven for failing to post straight up.

Can you explain your Adam read? Going to see if you've mentioned Jack earlier.
Overall the participation is a bit lower than I expected. But most games have their lurkers.

Yeah, you've mad your suspicion on Jack clear. *can't keep track*

[Tangrowth]

@MP, yeah it did. That felt very forthright and organic, it did not feel like you were trying to use it for *reasons*. If you get my drift.

Yeah, that makes sense, thanks.

What are your reads right at this moment, or if you'd prefer, whom would you vote for if not JOH?

[sprityo]

Posting a reads list, this was most of the way though Page 6, I still have to catch up. Are post numbers visible somewhere I'm just not seeing them?

Slightly Town:
colonialbob: Participating early and often, unafraid to lead discussion and ask questions
gfishfunk: More aggressive than normal. I'm interpreting that as town but it doesn't have to be.

Uncertain:
S~V~S: At first I felt like the how many ME games are there discussion was making a mountain out of a molehill, but I liked the most recent post I saw responding to MP, so one plus and one minus gets me back to uncertain
Jackofhearts2005: Typical blustery. I'd see both town/scum Jack posting meta reads. Drunk posting makes me more inclined to believe he's town, but I wouldn't put it past scum Jack to fake drunk posting.
Long Con: I like his interactions with Bob, Silver, and S~V~S, but the rhymes and the images posted seem more like distractions.
Dyslexicon: A lot of fluff posts, but also a post that is more substantive than anything anyone else has put out, so I'm not sure what to make of playstyle yet
MovingPictures07: TBD; Swamping the thread when I started compiling my reads, haven't really looked through his recent posts yet

Slightly scum:
Fredwood: A lot of early on joking-around posts, hasn't been back since the thread picked up though
DrWilgy: Has asked a lot of questions but hasn't really provided his own opinions
thellama73: Seemed to deliberately misinterpret LC's question to Bob
Silver_Lantern: So far mostly involved in that discussion about how many ME games there are
CaptainNifty: A little too prickly for my liking at this point

Null reads: Not enough content yet
TonyStarkPrime
Immortal_Raven
nutella
Dom
sprityo
Epignosis

I haven't seen anyone else this yet, but can you explain you slight scum read on captain nifty for me please? As of current I view him as light town for his take on MP. The latter I am finding overwhelming much like you are.

Also I'm not sure if you re evaluated some people, but there are certainly more than one person providing a pro town performance. MP to name one (albeit you've gotta look for it ), I also put silver and jack in there as at least attempting to get things moving.

Also the people who want to lynch me for acting how I always act need to reevaluate their life choices.

I've experienced this playstyle firsthand, and can concur with the statement. I know it can be intimidating for people not used to llama's style. It's especially infuriating above else.



Preview: some thoughts I collected. Still reading

[sprityo]

As of where I am however, I'm leaning an LC vote

[Dyslexicon]

Explain to me what SVS pointed out. In your own words.

The post she pointed out gave me weird feels as well. I've actually considered it as possible distancing, if I'm wrong on Nut. I don't really see how it's not possible for Nut to have town reads on players going after each other.

[Epignosis]

I am voting thellama

He's at the intersection of the Venn diagram of players I have scum reads on and players who have votes on them. I also think it's a little weird that more people aren't interested in Long Con and llama's back and forth, almost like some people are studiously avoiding getting involved.

Around here we call llama going back and forth with someone "Monday."

I am voting thellama

He's at the intersection of the Venn diagram of players I have scum reads on and players who have votes on them. I also think it's a little weird that more people aren't interested in Long Con and llama's back and forth, almost like some people are studiously avoiding getting involved.

I think it's weird as well, thank you for noticing.

I feel pretty good about you, and waffled on him, but not waffled enough to not see this as perhaps civ v civ. I actually want to hear what Epi says about him. That will go far for me towards deciding how I feel about it.

What llama does on Days 1 never interests me much because he's always going to do something zany or stubborn or both or something else. It's why I try to ignore that kind of stuff in general. After a few lynches, I can, for better or worse, form a solid opinion of llama.

[Tangrowth]

Let's talk a little more about the Syndicate meta: Is it typical for Long Con and llama to butt heads like this?

I wouldn't say it's normal, no, but it doesn't particularly surprise me either.

What's your read on Llama?

I'm torn, but still leaning slightly town. I'm tone reading him town for sure; I think he seemed more carefree with many of his early posts, and upon returning he also genuinely perturbed by people suspecting him. I also like that he spat reads at me upon inquiry, and seemed to be able to support them reasonably enough.

That said, something is keeping me from town reading him hard, and I'm wavering more as Day 1 continues to progress. Upon reflection I don't like this post:

Spoiler: show

You remember? Your go-to ploy to try and trip me up, make me look bad? Let me refresh your memory:

I can't make you look bad, LC. Only you can make yourself look bad.

as if Llama doesn't want to recognize that players can be and often are outwardly manipulative in cases and arguments.

Further, this post:

Spoiler: show

Dizzy beat me to it.

Gfunk, all this does is set up Wifom for baddies and give uneeded info to mafia teams.

If you'd like to trigger discussion via this method, this is not the way to do so.

We hunt baddies, not civilians. My civ reads are mine to have but not to paint targets.

I like this post. Civ reading Wilgy now.

is a bit dubious, and I'm not sure I quite like Llama's reluctance regarding town reads, especially given he previously was more than OK stating Dom and Dizzy were town and with accompanying reasons that are sort of weak.

So consider me still town reading him barely but increasingly wary.

[S~V~S]

@MP, yeah it did. That felt very forthright and organic, it did not feel like you were trying to use it for *reasons*. If you get my drift.

Yeah, that makes sense, thanks.

What are your reads right at this moment, or if you'd prefer, whom would you vote for if not JOH?

I am still feeling a little bit jumpy about Silver. Not sure why. Possibly the way he said, "Well I am known for my freaking out meta, and I freaked out so neener neener" or something to that effect.

In LC v Llama I feel worse about Llama, but not bad enough to vote where I have been wrong on him for similar reasons recently.

That said, I am not a huge fan of the people who are taking sides in this debate on Day One. Neither of them feels info-y to me.

I am still trying to sort the chattiest HRC folks.

Linki, Thanks Epi.

[sprityo]

Leaving my vote on LongCon for now

[Dyslexicon]

Leaving my vote on LongCon for now

Hi, sprit!^^

Um, why?

[Long Con]

Leaving my vote on LongCon for now

It's generally polite to give at least one reason.