Welcome to Night Vale Mafia [ENDGAME]

[insertnamehere]

I think that's pretty weak reasoning, if we assume Rico's cursed.

Wouldn't it also be easy to postulate that whoever cursed Rico would publicly state how annoying they find Poppy-posting, therefore distancing themselves from the curse, giving themselves an ostensible alibi?

[Long Con]

One way to figure out who Marcus is: everyone votes for themself. Whoever dies is Marcus.

Jack already voted for Golden. I suppose Golden could just vote for Jack, but there's also:

Khoshekh
A cat who hovers in the men’s bathroom of the Night Vale Community Radio station, Khoshekh has poisonous kitty spine ridges along his back. Anyone who targets Khoshekh will have +1 vote added on them the next day.

That could mess things up for one or more unlucky individuals.

[speedchuck]

One way to figure out who Marcus is: everyone votes for themself. Whoever dies is Marcus.

Fantastic, but it wouldn't work.

-Anyone who targets Khoshekh will have +1 vote added on them the next day.
-The Glow Cloud uses its influence to force a player’s vote each Day.
-*Secrets*

Not with all that going on. Even if none of this happened, everyone cooperated, and all was good, Marcus could wait and be one of the last few votes, then put an unstoppable lead on someone for an extra free lynch. Sure, we'd kill him tomorrow, but that would suck.

linki: That's true. Of the two that have stated how annoying this is, I could see LC doing what you described there, but not Epi. LC being the "Oh I thought this was LMS" guy. Yes, I'm always going to remember him as that.

Second linki: Thanks for rendering me worthless, LC.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Forgot about Khoshekh :P. I knew there was one who made votes not count but I missed that.

[Ricochet]

I think that's pretty weak reasoning, if we assume Rico's cursed.

Wouldn't it also be easy to postulate that whoever cursed Rico would publicly state how annoying they find Poppy-posting, therefore distancing themselves from the curse, giving themselves an ostensible alibi?

P O P P Y I'm Poppy!
P O P P Y I'm Poppy!
P O P P Y I'm Poppy!
P O P P Y That's me!

Chances will be plen-tyyy
To lynch them all, if need beeee
But right now, you fit the biiill
Of that who'd do this for thrill

You've been far to a-waaare
Tiptoeing with great caaaare
At my game not to glaaaare
From my wrath now beware

[nijuukyugou]

Listeners, are you lost? Don't know where to turn? Do you need cash? Alone, drowning in back taxes and legal problems? Might I recommend the weather?

[speedchuck]

Poppy seems more vengeful this game. Sheesh.

INH, what are your reads right now? Last time you gave them, I think Made was still topping your scumlist.

[Ricochet]

Poppy seems more vengeful this game. Sheesh.

INH, what are your reads right now? Last time you gave them, I think Made was still topping your scumlist.

P O P P Y I'm Poppy!
P O P P Y I'm Poppy!
P O P P Y I'm Poppy!
P O P P Y That's me!

Shit on my reads you aiiim
Constantly through this gaaame
Hope you will take the blaaame
When wolves will rise to fame

[speedchuck]

Poppy seems more vengeful this game. Sheesh.

INH, what are your reads right now? Last time you gave them, I think Made was still topping your scumlist.

P O P P Y I'm Poppy!
P O P P Y I'm Poppy!
P O P P Y I'm Poppy!
P O P P Y That's me!

Shit on my reads you aiiim
Constantly through this gaaame
Hope you will take the blaaame
When wolves will rise to fame

I could actually see Sprit, INH, or Golden as scum. The first two more than the latter. So I'm asking questions.

[Golden]

I don't believe that, that sounds like something you made up after the accusation

Well, you're wrong. I never lie about stupid shit like that.

I think everyone should just vote me out at this point.

I am literally never bad when everyone thinks I'm bad in the first couple of days. I don't understand why no-one ever wakes up to this point. When I'm doing dodgy shit, that means I'm town. But I'm kinda bored of being in defensive mode against anyone and everyone

Dom.

If you won't listen to me today, listen to me tomorrow, eh?

Dom is bad
Jack is probably bad
LC is probably bad

I think I hit a few baddie nerves very early in this game and they want to deal with it by getting me lynched. So fine, but I want to expose it for what it is. No-one who knows me well at all would believe me to be bad at this point.

[Golden]

Notice that Golden has ignored the posts I make on him, only calling it a no u.

I've said you're wrong, which you are. That's honestly all the response your posts need.

Everyone is tetchy that I'm ignoring them this game, but really I'm just not interested in getting into big defensive arguments against cases. Your case is wrong, I don't care to do a point by point analysis of it.

[Golden]

LD rules?

Yeah, could someone familiar with lie detection explain the rules? I was about to throw crap at Golden for making a terrible waste of a lie-detector statement, considering that his worst post of the game.

linki: yeah it doesn't make much sense for a post limitation to be placed on the only person who already was using a post limitation

Any statement that amounts to "I am town" or "I am not mafia" is not LDable, generally speaking.

[speedchuck]

I just realized why Golden phrased his Lie detect phrase in the particular way he did, by adding on the not knowing Nutella's alignment.

I'm willing to believe he's town, and not on either mafia team.

[Golden]

I just realized why Golden phrased his Lie detect phrase in the particular way he did, by adding on the not knowing Nutella's alignment.

I'm willing to believe he's town, and not on either mafia team.

It's quite literally an ironclad checkable statement for anyone who believes that I would take part in every NK discussion of a team I was part of. I wonder if LC thinks I wouldn't... I honestly don't believe he does, but he skirted around that. The idea of LC's 5% chance I'm being cagey should, to him, absolutely make sense in practice, not be something he 'doesn't believe'.

I'm not sure about Jack, maybe I'm paranoid with him. But Dom and LC look worse and worse to me all the time.

[speedchuck]

I could vote for LC. I've only got an hour left and then I'm not going to be around consistently for end day.

My suspects are LC, Dom, maybe Tony, perhaps INH, and Sprit. The last of which I'd rather not lynch without more discussion.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Is JOH the only one who hasn't posted today?

[Golden]

Is JOH the only one who hasn't posted today?

That would explain his early vote.

[Long Con]

I just realized why Golden phrased his Lie detect phrase in the particular way he did, by adding on the not knowing Nutella's alignment.

I'm willing to believe he's town, and not on either mafia team.

It's quite literally an ironclad checkable statement for anyone who believes that I would take part in every NK discussion of a team I was part of. I wonder if LC thinks I wouldn't... I honestly don't believe he does, but he skirted around that. The idea of LC's 5% chance I'm being cagey should, to him, absolutely make sense in practice, not be something he 'doesn't believe'.

I'm not sure about Jack, maybe I'm paranoid with him. But Dom and LC look worse and worse to me all the time.

What? I didn't "skirt around" anything. Why are you assuming that certain statements will not be Lie Detectable anyway? Does the possible existence of a rule you saw in some other games make it impossible for you to just say "I am a Civvie"? No. So don't tell me I'm the one skirting around things when you choose to only offer statements that could trick a Lie Detector.

Do I think you would intentionally not take part in the kill choice? No. Do I know if you were around in your chat while the choice was happening? No, I do not. Maybe you were busy during that 24 hours, and your team made some necessary decisions on night actions. Maybe you said at the start of the night "Look, I'm not really going to be around, I'm fine with whoever you guys choose". Is that so hard to imagine?

If you want to make a sketchy statement, act like it's ironclad, and then try to turn it around on me for pointing it out, then that's your call. Just don't be surprised, because of course you are going to look suspicious because of it. You got called out for avoiding making a checkable statement, and you are acting like "Oh I know Golden, he would never not take part in a kill decision!" makes it ironclad.

This is your choice. You are choosing to make yourself look this way. You don't have to choose that.

[Golden]

Sure, LC, except that...

1) I patently made many "I am not bad" statements before our conversation began
2) I WAS around (posting in this thread)

So yes, it really is that hard to imagine if you are paying the blindest bit of attention.

[Elohcin]

Eek! Three pages to read. I will catch up in the next few hours. Sorry guys, been really busy today. I didn't expect my tasks to take as long as they did.

[Golden]

There are no shortage of LD statements I have made. I offered to make any you might want me to make. I pointed out I'd already made a lot. And then I made another one just in case none of mine would work due to the existence of that rule.

If I wanted to 'act cool' about your accusation I was being deliberately cagey, I'd just say 'you're right, I didn't think about how that might not work. How about another'.

But I don't actually care about 'how I look'. Chew on that for a bit.

[speedchuck]

Let it be known that Golden made 40 posts on night 1

[DrWilgy]

Coward

[DrWilgy]

One way to figure out who Marcus is: everyone votes for themself. Whoever dies is Marcus.

No thanks.

[DrWilgy]

Wanna lynch INH?

[speedchuck]

Coward

???

[speedchuck]

Wanna lynch INH?

What are your other scumreads?

They are relevant to me answering your question.

[DrWilgy]

Golden and DF

[DrWilgy]

I miss Hazlenut

[speedchuck]

Nah, I'm good

[DrWilgy]

Can you explain?

[DrWilgy]

where u at?

[speedchuck]

I don't currently suspect Golden. DF hasn't been noticeable enough to make me scumread him. And INH is one of my weakest scumreads.

The less your grouping of scum overlaps with mine, the less likely I am to take a lynch suggestion from you.

I could be wrong, but I can't just go around assuming I'm wrong and throwing votes. That would be stupid.

[DrWilgy]

That's dumb.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Let it be known that Golden made 40 posts on night 1

Is this a good thing?

Wilgy, what's your opinion about JOH's vote for Golden?

[DrWilgy]

Indifferent.

[speedchuck]

That's dumb.

I'm not going to trust a flat-earth biologist.

One has nothing to do with the other, but if I disagree about the earth, it lowers my estimation of the current accuracy of that person's scientific statements.

So you having reads that I wholeheartedly disagree with makes me leery of your other reads.

Let it be known that Golden made 40 posts on night 1

Is this a good thing?

It means he was here and able to help select a night target. Not that it matters that much.

[Golden]

Here's why I think LC is bad.

Bad LC forgets to play the ball. He gets driven into arguments that look good in semantics, but actually betray a lack of full thought. In this case, the ball is 'golden is avoiding LD statements'.

What is the first thing a person might do if they genuinely thought another player was avoiding LD statements? I would iso that player to see if it's accurate. I'd actually go look at how many LD statements they've made. I invite anyone to do that now.

You will see that my post history is full of 100% ironclad LD statements. My guess is that most of them amount to someone saying 'golden is bad' and me replying by saying 'you're wrong'. Because anyone who says I am bad is wrong. But I'm sure I've also given any number of other things that amount to 'I am civilian' or 'I am not bad'.

Instead, LC decides to fixate on the one statement I made that I knew could have the same effect even if all of those other statements were not allowed. He ignores the fact that I said 'I've made plenty' before making that one. He doesn't check to see if that's correct. He just fixates on the new ones I'm trying to think of that might enable me to beat any particular rule that could be in place. He wants to hang me because 'I don't know what rule might be in place', but if I actually were bad, don't you think I'd have asked what rule was in place?

I give him one that ought to be tailored right to his wheelhouse. LC has seen me in action both as a teammate and host. He knows that I do not bail on taking part of a team for any phase unless I really have to. What's his comeback? He agrees that I wouldn't fail to take part if I could, but I might have been too busy. A person who has a real suspicion, and was playing the ball, would go and look to see if that made sense in context, not just throw it out as a hypothetical. In fact, looking at the thread, it is very clear that I was entirely here and could have taken part.

LC is playing me, the player, he isn't actually looking to see whether I'm making LD statements.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Btw, I'd also like to point out, in terms of 'towniness meter', that while I've thrown out reads on nearly everyone in the game without problem (and been happy to adapt those reads), this has been generally criticised by the same people who see me as bad. In the mean time, I think a quick iso of Dom and LC would show you a distinct lack of reads. They are getting by, mostly focusing on me.

Dom and LC, want to prove you aren't bad? Start engaging with more than your cases on me.

At this point, if I had my vote back, I'd probably lean a vote on LC before Dom. Dom tunnels do happen from town Dom, and I can see how me voting him could get under his skin in a way. But LCs tunnels are usually well reasoned - even if the theories are out there, they fit with a thoughtful analysis of the facts. This is completely lacking here... he isn't taking a step back to consider what I'm saying, it's just discredit discredit discredit. This is my experience of bad LC. I remember another game... Bullets over Broadway maybe? Where the same thing happened.

[Golden]

Let it be known that Golden made 40 posts on night 1

Is this a good thing?

It is when LC's only reason for my LD statement being flawed is 'I might not have been around to participate in the NK'

[Golden]

I was thinking in the shower, on what townie behaviour looks like. One of the fundamental things in my mind was a willingness to create opinions on a range of people without fear of being wrong or having to backtrack. On this front, I think I feel a bit better about Jack now. But worse about Dom and LC.

[speedchuck]

Reading over an ISO of LC, IMO, points to potential alignment with Dom. That one reason I am a little more okay with voting those two than my other scumreads.

But I'm going to

VOTE LONG CON

and let the jury handle the rest. I'll be taking my leave now. GL.

[speedchuck]

EBWOP:

Formatting sucks

[Golden]

Centre is a bitch.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Let it be known that Golden made 40 posts on night 1

Is this a good thing?

It is when LC's only reason for my LD statement being flawed is 'I might not have been around to participate in the NK'

Okay. Missed this reasoning from LC. It isn't a bad argument, but it is pretty clearly shot down by the forty points thing.

[Golden]

It isn't a bad argument in theory, but it's a very bad argument from anyone who knows me as well as lc does. I tailored that particular statement right at him and his experience of me.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Okay. I'm feeling a little better about Golden and
willing to believe that Golden and Dom could maybe both be town. I keep getting paranoid about Speed and LC (sorry JOH), both of whom have good interactions but intuitively I don't feel good about. I feel worse about LC and his interactions are worse, but Speed being on it and Golden endorsing it makes me want to vote for one of my other scum reads instead.

So for Epi (and others) to maybe think I'm Marcus a little less: today's I will vote for DF, LC, or maybe INH, barring someone says something really stupid. Even then, I would only vote for the second place person so it would not be a safe vote if I were Marcus. That sound good to you? It works for me, as I don't see a situation where I would break this even if I weren't under suspicion.

LC, DF, and INH: of the two of those who aren't you, who do you think is scum?

[Epignosis]

I am not about to let this spiral into bullshit about who made what lie detector statement. That's so 2014.

I agree with TonyStarkPrime's assessment of the votes, in that a number of people could have hidden their vote. I still think his move at the very end of the Day was the sketchiest though.

Here's something I found while looking to see if TonyStarkPrime had mentioned DFaraday early enough in advance to have been considering a vote for him (he did express a vague but negative opinion of DF at 6:38pm EST) and I want to know more about this:

Call me crazy, but I think I want to vote for Jack.

Jack had no votes either, but TonyStarkPrime opted to cast his vote for DFaraday instead. What prompted you to express a desire to vote for Jack but then vote for DFaraday?

[Golden]

2010 more like.

[Ricochet]

P O P P Y I'm Poppy!
P O P P Y I'm Poppy!
P O P P Y I'm Poppy!
P O P P Y That's me!

Why won't people help meeee
Get rid of IN heeee
Wipe his hexing spreeee

Okay. I'm feeling a little better about Golden and
willing to believe that Golden and Dom could maybe both be town. I keep getting paranoid about Speed and LC (sorry JOH), both of whom have good interactions but intuitively I don't feel good about. I feel worse about LC and his interactions are worse, but Speed being on it and Golden endorsing it makes me want to vote for one of my other scum reads instead.

So for Epi (and others) to maybe think I'm Marcus a little less: today's I will vote for DF, LC, or maybe INH, barring someone says something really stupid. Even then, I would only vote for the second place person so it would not be a safe vote if I were Marcus. That sound good to you? It works for me, as I don't see a situation where I would break this even if I weren't under suspicion.

LC, DF, and INH: of the two of those who aren't you, who do you think is scum?

What the fek this be?!

[TonyStarkPrime]

P O P P Y I'm Poppy!
P O P P Y I'm Poppy!
P O P P Y I'm Poppy!
P O P P Y That's me!

Why won't people help meeee
Get rid of IN heeee
Wipe his hexing spreeee

Okay. I'm feeling a little better about Golden and
willing to believe that Golden and Dom could maybe both be town. I keep getting paranoid about Speed and LC (sorry JOH), both of whom have good interactions but intuitively I don't feel good about. I feel worse about LC and his interactions are worse, but Speed being on it and Golden endorsing it makes me want to vote for one of my other scum reads instead.

So for Epi (and others) to maybe think I'm Marcus a little less: today's I will vote for DF, LC, or maybe INH, barring someone says something really stupid. Even then, I would only vote for the second place person so it would not be a safe vote if I were Marcus. That sound good to you? It works for me, as I don't see a situation where I would break this even if I weren't under suspicion.

LC, DF, and INH: of the two of those who aren't you, who do you think is scum?

What the fek this be?!

Me trying to figure out how to allow myself to be able to lynch X over Y without breaking the narrow contract I set up.